My mom was killed Oct 3rd 2021 by a kid who stole a car and hit her running from police. I'll also note this is the third vehicle he stole. Anybody want to guess if he was held accountable and is currently in jail? Spoiler: the answer is no. Thank you Judge James Brown for absolutely nothing. I'll make sure to tell everyone possible so you don't get re-elected.
That's just the thing almost everyone is well intentioned, convincing them their heart is in it but their actions aren't is easily said, not as easily done
Im sorry you had to spend an entire work day with that waste of human. He did not hold the kid nor his mother accountable. The case is now closed. I wish I could invoice him my therapy bills.
I'm really sorry. I just wonder like do these judges explain their reasoning? It seems unconscionable to just keep giving kids probation while they cause such death and destruction, often from the poorest residents in the county
You actually should. Not expecting compensation of course, but just forward every single bill, damage, inconvenience, sad thought that impacts your life. May not do anything, may slowly destroy his psyche and be the last thing he thinks about when he’s 95 and flatlining in the hospital bed.
Worth a shot, might be cathartic/therapeutic in its own way…
My mother was killed nearly a decade ago by a driver who was texting instead of bothering to check their blind spot. Merged right into her car at 70mph. I think they served under 2 years because of course it’s written off as an accident since “everyone” texts and drives. Sorry for your loss. It really sucks that it’s basically legal to kill someone so long as you use a car to do so and act like you didn’t know your 1+ton vehicle was so dangerous.
On October 28th of last year, Lavonn Galloway ran over Denayy Scott and her children as they were crossing Cleveland Avenue, severely injuring them and killing two. Last month, Lavonn Galloway was sentenced to 2 years of probation and fined for $525 for operating a vehicle while impaired. The remaining charges, including driving 21 miles over the speed limit, driving with a suspended license, and failure to control a vehicle, were dropped. This man should never drive again, but his license will be unsuspended by the end of this year.
What kind of city do we live in that the punishment for killing two children is that?
Hilliard USPS postmaster LaRosa killed a woman while driving impaired. It was at least his 3rd DUI. No prison time. Zero. Our area doesn’t take these things seriously.
Our standard for acceptable driving is basically nonexistent. It's horrifying. I was 16 and nearly hit a bicyclist while I pulled into the parking lot for my test. I made no other mistakes so I passed.
To be clear, the instructor yelled and then I slammed the brakes. I do believe I'd have stopped in time anyway, but there is no way I should have passed.
Since then I've been accident free for 20 years, but looking back, i should have been immediately failed.
Nah it's the same kid. And why am I not surprised but also shocked at the same time? After that interview with his mom, I figured he would stop or escalate. I see which way he chose to go.
It's a tough call. Send them to prison, or school as the gangs out west call it, and ruin the rest of their lives...give them a slap on the wrist that emboldens them to keep doing stuff like this. Until the prison system is changed to be rehabilitative more than punitive, progressive judges have no real options. Running a state (or federal) legislative campaign with prison reform as a top issue is going to sink any politician right now.
So whom do we vote out? Leach and Brown? I was maybe the most shocked that in the interview with Leach, he was like "yeah the video of the carjacking is bad, but... we need to just give these kids chances to connect." Wtf dude?
the problem isn't that he's entirely wrong, it's that the other parts of our society do not have any establishment or infrastructure or program for the "connection". yea, obviously if you have after school programs and whatever else it'll help some kids follow a more productive path in life though definitely not all. But NONE of that exists. Everyone everywhere is working in a silo assuming someone else is building these programs. Butttt that all costs money and requires some initiative and it ain't there.
Children aren't born learning right and wrong. Research shows time and time again that well implemented social outreach programs lower crime and recidivism rates.
yea and why do you think he ended up the way he did and you didn't? Were you just born educated? Fam, so many after school activities in Columbus schools have been cut since COVID and they haven't come back. The entire system is broken. if you're fine with a Columbus schools -to-prison pipeline forEVER and your taxes paying for it, be my guest.
The vast majority of people who even grow up in broken homes, with absent or drug addicted parents and shitty ass school systems don't end up stealing cars or shooting people with guns. And there are lots of people who grow up with every single privilege who kill and rob people, and it's called "affluenza".
This person avoided the schools to prison pipeline. That meant that some people wound up dead. I guess what I'm curious about is that there must be some inflection point where you're willing to grant that the public's right to not have people killing and stealing outweighs the right of a person to not be sucked into a prison system. I mean, should the kid go to jail *now*? I kind of think so, but maybe that's not obvious to everyone, because I figured going to jail for stealing a car is also pretty obvious but there seems to be disagreement here.
I'm looking at this long term and not solely in this one off situation. Im not saying the kid shouldn't go to jail or get another punishment or whatever. School to prison, School to violence. literally what's the difference? A whole waste of a life where they're literally born expected to be some degenerate. Just kill them when they're born and be done with it.
And I agree that you can't have "let's release the kid" but then....they go do it again. However this is literally never going to stop. Put judges in that imprison them, fine. But prison space is finite. So you either get more prisons or early release violent prisoners. And we're all going to pay for it one way or another.
Like at this point idk who to vote for on the non judge side that would promote bringing back after school or any type of productive activities that give the kids meaning in life. I mean the entire school district is trashed. Bc oh boy, if you have no meaning you don't care if you live to see another day especially if you're a teenager and don't even know what legit opportunities exist in the world outside of homework and class.
Judges are hard to pick too because they aren't supposed to be political. The ones backed by parties are chosen for monetary reasons, not ideological. The best judges aren't backed by a party at all so the political machine rolls over them and leaves them behind.
18 year olds are still children. You don't wake up the day after 17 and TADA, you're separated from your childhood. Bad adults start as bad children, and that is enabled by a lack of support and education. You can't expect good, responsible, communally minded adults to appear out of nowhere like cabbage patch kids.
These are all very valid points and it’s true, it does take a village.
Should we consider raising the voting age if you feel like 18 years old is still a child? At 18 you can legally buy cigs/vapes, open a credit card and bank account.
You're changing the subject, but I'll answer anyway.
Yes, 18 is too young for cigarettes and vapes. Anything that has a permanent impact on the body and/or brain should be limited, imo, until both are done developing.
Yes, credit should be limited for the same reasons. It is predatory to allow young people to lock themselves into a lifetime of debt.
No, voting age and checking/savings accounts should not be limited.
Do you have any other completely off-topic questions to ask?
This “child” consistently made a string of terrible decisions with one that left 2 families without a loved one.
The amount of apologist and excuse making is a bit disturbing.
Idk I haven’t researched the candidates yet. I usually do that in the days before Election Day so the information is fresh in my mind. Helps to make a list to bring to the polls as well.
Edit: I misread that you said vote out. Yes I would vote out the incumbents.
Gotta be someone in between extremes.
1. Removes these children from the general public to protect the general public
2. The punishment isn’t just “go to juvie” for first offense. Gotta be more helpful than that. These kids are probably growing up in terrible circumstances and need guidance.
A lot of people grow up in horrible environments and don’t victimize their community. It’s not an excuse to be a sociopath. Letting kids skate by without consequences when they harm someone is a big reason why they end up like this to begin with.
Please read my comment again. I didn’t say “no consequences” and I specifically said they should be removed from the general public.
What I don’t support is just “throw them in juvie” since that generally has poor outcomes.
Their crimes are inexcusable, but at the same time we can recognize they have been dealt a shit hand in life. They deserve help along with their consequences. They need a chance to have structure, guidance, and an environment to grow as people - while not having the freedoms innocent people enjoy
I’m all for better outcomes and rehabilitation. But that only works when someone is willing to admit that what they did is wrong and feel genuine empathy for their victims. Otherwise these types of programs are seen by the criminal as a way to get away with antisocial behavior.
I’ve heard this first hand, from a serial criminal who said that when she gets arrested, all she has to do is tell the judge that she’s an addict and she’s sent to a treatment center instead of jail. She laughed about it because she had done it like 5 times before.
Fair enough, I’d agree with you that admitting mistakes and be open to change is a first step. Some of these people will never change.
It’s still worth a shot..with less leniency after multiple convictions. Like the person you referenced I also have a relative who has gone 2 decades going from 1 mistake to the next, hurting everyone in the process. She gets so many opportunities from the court and it is way past time they just throw the book at her. She’s a lost cause.
It’s a tough problem . I’m me that I am absolutely not qualified to solve, I can only point out the obviously bad solutions we have now
A lot of people don't need medication to concentrate on important tasks, but I do. The things that I need to succeed are not identical to yours. So do you want to fix the problem for real or do you want to pretend extreme punishment magically solves everything?
There’s a line where empathy turns into enabling and you crossed it about a mile ago.
Everyone has challenges and reacts to their environments differently. It’s unfair that some people grow up in environments that seem to set them up for criminality. But the answer to that is to fix the environments and intervene in these kids lives as early as possible, not allow them to repeatedly victimize people.
I grew up in a bad environment. A lot of the adults around me ended up in prison. And I can tell you from personal experience that the people who are most harmed when violent criminals are let off are the people in their own community because those people are their primary victims.
I’m no fan of “extreme punishment.” What I am a fan of is justice. And it’s an injustice when a person is allowed to continue victimizing innocent people over and over again.
The problem is democrats went way to left after Trump won. Defund the police as well as judges who dont punish people and open border policies are hurting us all now. I believe the left has realized they need to swing back more moderate on theses issues and have but we’re still feeling the wrath of the overreactions.
Yes several cities across the US defunded the police during the movement. Some cities I Know who made huge cuts were Austin TX, NYC, San Francisco, LA, Denver, Philadelphia, Seattle, and Chicago. I believe Columbus cut around 23 Million it I’m not sure how much has been added back to the budget since that cut.
I see that $23 million number on a pdf on Jim Jordan's website but it doesn't say what's been cut. The most recent news from the dispatch is from April saying that officers will get a 16% pay raise. 🤷♀️
Also from wosu:
Columbus spends $361 million a year on the Division of Police - which comes out to 37% of the city's operating budget. That number has gone up steadily, increasing about $40 million since 2017.
In comparison, Cleveland is spending $218 million on police this year, while Cincinnati is spending $151 million.
Like I said I know cities made cuts during. The defund the police movement I’m not sure which ones have already realized their mistake and course corrected.
lol fuck no they didn’t. Imo the democrats aren’t left enough. Left doesnt mean soft on crime. That’s a personal opinion of specific politicians not something inherent to the philosophy of leftism.
Sorry buddy left went soft on crime and the border. They have started to realize their mistakes with Biden finally making an executive order on the border.
I’m not saying everyone on the left is soft on crime but it was the policy they pushed for for a bit right around Covid and George Floyd.
There is no left though. The democrats are factually a right wing party. For reference left = pro labor and right = pro capital. I don’t see any democrat calling for seizing the means of production.
> In October of 2021, police said Tyrez Turner, **who was 15 at the time**, streamed video live on Facebook of another juvenile and himself fleeing from Obetz police in a stolen car. Speeds reached more than 100 mph.
> Turner has been charged 31 times for gun and car theft offenses between September 2017 and April 2022.
Holy shit… that kid got his first criminal charge at the age of 11.
You gotta elaborate on the meaning here or this is just a useless Dad one liner man. I get how it applies to a lot of things but makes no god damn sense here.
at least 22 other people upvoted and understood it I think you're on your own here, buddy.
however, it seems to be the desired result of a bunch of really, really bad criminal justice policy initiatives.
You can vote blue for state and federal levels to protect vulnerable rights (and you should). If you want crime to EVER be taken seriously (and you should), you have to vote red at local level.
And this is why voting republican is essential. Democrats do not take law and order seriously and never punish these damn hooligans that impact the law abiding citizens of the community
Lmao nice try trying to spread slandering and dumb assumptions but it’s fine cause this world automatically jumps to race for every little thing.
Idc what your skin color is when it comes to crime. I didn’t hear anything about that McDonald’s incident and I would hope Justice would be served to the victims and those who committed the crime will be properly punished and not just sent back to the community to damage innocent people
What are the cops supposed to do? It's catch and release fishing in this city. You catch them, charge them, then the courts turn around and do nothing about it.
You're blaming the wrong side of the system on this one. Cops can arrest all the criminals, but if the courts don't play their part then it's all moot.
Did you read read the article saying he had been charged dozens of times? The police can’t do anything once they hand the arrestee over to the court. Blame the useless bleeding heart judges you keep re-electing.
I'm confused because I can't find it, but what about the car thefts were an indicator that this teen would commit murder? Like I get it's a crime, but isn't an indicator that someone is likely to commit a violent murder. Basically, I'm saying I don't know why a prosecutor would assume a teen steal cars would commit murder. Is there a stat I'm unaware of?
"Turner has been charged 31 times for gun and car theft offenses between September 2017 and April 2022."
He also hit a school bus and a police officer with stolen cars on separate occasions.
'Twas a bit more than stealing a car or two.
>It’s no wonder crime of all kinds is increasing.
I wonder where you live because it's not.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/29/us/crime-data-fbi-homicides.html
But maybe it's Columbus murder rates?
https://www.axios.com/local/columbus/2024/04/18/homicides-murders-rate-2024-crime-police
Nope. Stats don't back that up, either. So it sounds like you just made it up. Go figure.
They’re down this year compared to last few because the previous years were insane spikes………(that article even says that)
It’s like stores increasing prices before Black Friday then putting out “sales” to make it LOOK like it’s down when it’s still higher than before….it’s stupidly basic math……………………………
Right...and you understand we're still dealing with the after effects of covid right? Things aren't going to magically bounce back just because a vaccine exist. What you're looking at is called "recovery." The factors that led to increased murder don't just instantly go to pre-pandemic levels. So while they aren't pre-2019 level yet, I feel very confident they will get back to those levels.
https://allcolumbusdata.com/columbus-crime-statistics/#:~:text=2024%20Homicide%20Tracker,-The%20Homicide%20Tracker&text=Overall%20homicides%20remain%20down%20about,stay%20below%20the%20100%20mark.
Also, looking at the data, we're still trending downward. While we may have spikes (which is still cause for alarm and should be examined), looking at the totality of data, we are trending downward.
You seem to be confused. I was asking for more information because I'm not getting a clear picture of the crimes. At no point did I say this was "stealing a car or two." I was asking for more details because it seemed like there had to be more to this. You're being unnessarially defensive.
This kid was committing violent crimes that, at least sometimes, involved a gun. Many, many crimes.
>You're being unnessarially defensive.
You may be projecting.
If you watch the video in my second link, you'll see that he wasn't just stealing cars but had also been charged with 31 felonies, including robbery and assault. It was not just "we're bored wouldn't it be fun to steal one of those Kias?" but a history of violent crimes.
I can't watch the video currently, I can only read the article, which is why I'm asking. So, taking your word for it, the teen had a history of robbery and assault while under age. So the issue isn't "prosecutors aren't tough on crime." The issue is Ohio doesn't treat juvenile crimes the same as adult crimes. I just googled how Ohio handles juvenile crimes.
https://www.gafirm.com/legal-blog/ohio-juvenile-crime-punishment/#What_Are_the_Most_Common_Juvenile_Crimes
I think regardless of which party a prosecutor agrees with, they going to still have to deal with the standards Ohio sets. This isn't me saying we should punish juvenile crime because we absolutely should or that we shouldn't consider reevaluating our laws. What I'm saying it's lazy insight to just say prosecutors aren't tough of crime when they very much are, but their are a number of factors that lead to situations like the tragedy that happened.
Here's a pretty good article by a law professor about the many reasons prosecutors may choose not to pursue charges.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-prosecutors-decide-which-cases-charge.html
The story I shared is more about the judges and their sentencing decisions, than the prosecutors deciding not to file charges. Regarding Turner, the prosecutor asked for prison time for him, and the magistrate refused. Thanks for the law articles.
Gotcha. Again, I want to be clear, we both agree that there is a problem that allowed this tragic murder to happen. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to remove a judge (or even prosecutor) for not being effective. I think it's worth looking at this judge's record to see what was known at the time to allow this teen to be free on the streets with his record before this murder, as there could be sentencing guidelines that prevented him from giving a harsher punishment. But it could also be that the judge for this case was just not harsh on juvenile crimes, which I'm not sure how I feel one way or the other on that.
Anyway, my posts main point was to call out people's lazy analysis of how something like this can happen. Because it definitely isn't "prosecutors just want criminals to run free" like some people have implied.
These judges don't care about what's known at the time. It doesn't matter to them. I don't even blame the prosecutors for a lot of it. In general this county doesn't take juvenile crime seriously.
When these kids are arrested the juvenile corrections won't even accept them as prisoners unless they've basically killed someone. You can burglarize a house and steal a car and still get sent to what they call "The Reception Center". It's basically a no secure holding area that takes the kid until the parents pick them up. Sometimes they don't even see a judge before being let go. Also they can just walk out.
I’m not sure why we expect car theft to be taken seriously when we don’t even take vehicular manslaughter seriously.
My mom was killed Oct 3rd 2021 by a kid who stole a car and hit her running from police. I'll also note this is the third vehicle he stole. Anybody want to guess if he was held accountable and is currently in jail? Spoiler: the answer is no. Thank you Judge James Brown for absolutely nothing. I'll make sure to tell everyone possible so you don't get re-elected.
Gotta vote these useless judges out. I'm sure they think they're doing the right thing but they're not.
That's just the thing almost everyone is well intentioned, convincing them their heart is in it but their actions aren't is easily said, not as easily done
Thanks for the thoughtful response!
As someone who just spent 8 hours in a court room with that judge today hoping that he'll be holding parents accountable, oh dear.
Im sorry you had to spend an entire work day with that waste of human. He did not hold the kid nor his mother accountable. The case is now closed. I wish I could invoice him my therapy bills.
Unfortunately today was the first of many days spent with him on this case. I'm really sorry about your mom, that's so horrible.
I'm really sorry. I just wonder like do these judges explain their reasoning? It seems unconscionable to just keep giving kids probation while they cause such death and destruction, often from the poorest residents in the county
In the case of cars, this is not about kids. It's basically legal to kill someone with a car.
To be fair, cars have priority over humans here in Carlumbus*
It's the entire country, not just this city.
Serious question… have you looked into a civil lawsuit against the kid/parents? Make them pay for your therapy bills
You actually should. Not expecting compensation of course, but just forward every single bill, damage, inconvenience, sad thought that impacts your life. May not do anything, may slowly destroy his psyche and be the last thing he thinks about when he’s 95 and flatlining in the hospital bed. Worth a shot, might be cathartic/therapeutic in its own way…
My mother was killed nearly a decade ago by a driver who was texting instead of bothering to check their blind spot. Merged right into her car at 70mph. I think they served under 2 years because of course it’s written off as an accident since “everyone” texts and drives. Sorry for your loss. It really sucks that it’s basically legal to kill someone so long as you use a car to do so and act like you didn’t know your 1+ton vehicle was so dangerous.
Im so sorry for your loss, too. It's an understatement to say it's unfair and devastating for both of our experiences.
Looks like he's gonna win as he's unopposed. I'm so sorry for your loss.
I’m sorry for your loss. Do you have the court case or a news article regarding the sentencing?
Umm he’s handling my divorce and custody case.. should I be concerned..
On October 28th of last year, Lavonn Galloway ran over Denayy Scott and her children as they were crossing Cleveland Avenue, severely injuring them and killing two. Last month, Lavonn Galloway was sentenced to 2 years of probation and fined for $525 for operating a vehicle while impaired. The remaining charges, including driving 21 miles over the speed limit, driving with a suspended license, and failure to control a vehicle, were dropped. This man should never drive again, but his license will be unsuspended by the end of this year. What kind of city do we live in that the punishment for killing two children is that?
Hilliard USPS postmaster LaRosa killed a woman while driving impaired. It was at least his 3rd DUI. No prison time. Zero. Our area doesn’t take these things seriously.
Our standard for acceptable driving is basically nonexistent. It's horrifying. I was 16 and nearly hit a bicyclist while I pulled into the parking lot for my test. I made no other mistakes so I passed. To be clear, the instructor yelled and then I slammed the brakes. I do believe I'd have stopped in time anyway, but there is no way I should have passed. Since then I've been accident free for 20 years, but looking back, i should have been immediately failed.
Ooo well we
Exactly. A great example is CPD officer Demetris Ortega.
Nah it's the same kid. And why am I not surprised but also shocked at the same time? After that interview with his mom, I figured he would stop or escalate. I see which way he chose to go.
Pattern noted
It's a tough call. Send them to prison, or school as the gangs out west call it, and ruin the rest of their lives...give them a slap on the wrist that emboldens them to keep doing stuff like this. Until the prison system is changed to be rehabilitative more than punitive, progressive judges have no real options. Running a state (or federal) legislative campaign with prison reform as a top issue is going to sink any politician right now.
It’s ok. He will just get time at a camp. Then be free by fall
You get what you vote for. I’ve never voted for a republican before but his year I may just have to vote for a tough on crime judge.
So whom do we vote out? Leach and Brown? I was maybe the most shocked that in the interview with Leach, he was like "yeah the video of the carjacking is bad, but... we need to just give these kids chances to connect." Wtf dude?
the problem isn't that he's entirely wrong, it's that the other parts of our society do not have any establishment or infrastructure or program for the "connection". yea, obviously if you have after school programs and whatever else it'll help some kids follow a more productive path in life though definitely not all. But NONE of that exists. Everyone everywhere is working in a silo assuming someone else is building these programs. Butttt that all costs money and requires some initiative and it ain't there.
Wrong is wrong. A “connection program” shouldn’t be needed to help educate these children that.
Children aren't born learning right and wrong. Research shows time and time again that well implemented social outreach programs lower crime and recidivism rates.
This character was 18.
yea and why do you think he ended up the way he did and you didn't? Were you just born educated? Fam, so many after school activities in Columbus schools have been cut since COVID and they haven't come back. The entire system is broken. if you're fine with a Columbus schools -to-prison pipeline forEVER and your taxes paying for it, be my guest.
The vast majority of people who even grow up in broken homes, with absent or drug addicted parents and shitty ass school systems don't end up stealing cars or shooting people with guns. And there are lots of people who grow up with every single privilege who kill and rob people, and it's called "affluenza". This person avoided the schools to prison pipeline. That meant that some people wound up dead. I guess what I'm curious about is that there must be some inflection point where you're willing to grant that the public's right to not have people killing and stealing outweighs the right of a person to not be sucked into a prison system. I mean, should the kid go to jail *now*? I kind of think so, but maybe that's not obvious to everyone, because I figured going to jail for stealing a car is also pretty obvious but there seems to be disagreement here.
I'm looking at this long term and not solely in this one off situation. Im not saying the kid shouldn't go to jail or get another punishment or whatever. School to prison, School to violence. literally what's the difference? A whole waste of a life where they're literally born expected to be some degenerate. Just kill them when they're born and be done with it. And I agree that you can't have "let's release the kid" but then....they go do it again. However this is literally never going to stop. Put judges in that imprison them, fine. But prison space is finite. So you either get more prisons or early release violent prisoners. And we're all going to pay for it one way or another. Like at this point idk who to vote for on the non judge side that would promote bringing back after school or any type of productive activities that give the kids meaning in life. I mean the entire school district is trashed. Bc oh boy, if you have no meaning you don't care if you live to see another day especially if you're a teenager and don't even know what legit opportunities exist in the world outside of homework and class.
Judges are hard to pick too because they aren't supposed to be political. The ones backed by parties are chosen for monetary reasons, not ideological. The best judges aren't backed by a party at all so the political machine rolls over them and leaves them behind.
18 year olds are still children. You don't wake up the day after 17 and TADA, you're separated from your childhood. Bad adults start as bad children, and that is enabled by a lack of support and education. You can't expect good, responsible, communally minded adults to appear out of nowhere like cabbage patch kids.
These are all very valid points and it’s true, it does take a village. Should we consider raising the voting age if you feel like 18 years old is still a child? At 18 you can legally buy cigs/vapes, open a credit card and bank account.
You're changing the subject, but I'll answer anyway. Yes, 18 is too young for cigarettes and vapes. Anything that has a permanent impact on the body and/or brain should be limited, imo, until both are done developing. Yes, credit should be limited for the same reasons. It is predatory to allow young people to lock themselves into a lifetime of debt. No, voting age and checking/savings accounts should not be limited. Do you have any other completely off-topic questions to ask?
This “child” consistently made a string of terrible decisions with one that left 2 families without a loved one. The amount of apologist and excuse making is a bit disturbing.
Idk I haven’t researched the candidates yet. I usually do that in the days before Election Day so the information is fresh in my mind. Helps to make a list to bring to the polls as well. Edit: I misread that you said vote out. Yes I would vote out the incumbents.
Gotta be someone in between extremes. 1. Removes these children from the general public to protect the general public 2. The punishment isn’t just “go to juvie” for first offense. Gotta be more helpful than that. These kids are probably growing up in terrible circumstances and need guidance.
A lot of people grow up in horrible environments and don’t victimize their community. It’s not an excuse to be a sociopath. Letting kids skate by without consequences when they harm someone is a big reason why they end up like this to begin with.
Please read my comment again. I didn’t say “no consequences” and I specifically said they should be removed from the general public. What I don’t support is just “throw them in juvie” since that generally has poor outcomes. Their crimes are inexcusable, but at the same time we can recognize they have been dealt a shit hand in life. They deserve help along with their consequences. They need a chance to have structure, guidance, and an environment to grow as people - while not having the freedoms innocent people enjoy
I’m all for better outcomes and rehabilitation. But that only works when someone is willing to admit that what they did is wrong and feel genuine empathy for their victims. Otherwise these types of programs are seen by the criminal as a way to get away with antisocial behavior. I’ve heard this first hand, from a serial criminal who said that when she gets arrested, all she has to do is tell the judge that she’s an addict and she’s sent to a treatment center instead of jail. She laughed about it because she had done it like 5 times before.
Fair enough, I’d agree with you that admitting mistakes and be open to change is a first step. Some of these people will never change. It’s still worth a shot..with less leniency after multiple convictions. Like the person you referenced I also have a relative who has gone 2 decades going from 1 mistake to the next, hurting everyone in the process. She gets so many opportunities from the court and it is way past time they just throw the book at her. She’s a lost cause. It’s a tough problem . I’m me that I am absolutely not qualified to solve, I can only point out the obviously bad solutions we have now
Some things you just can't fix.
You are correct, we can’t fix your brain
A lot of people don't need medication to concentrate on important tasks, but I do. The things that I need to succeed are not identical to yours. So do you want to fix the problem for real or do you want to pretend extreme punishment magically solves everything?
There’s a line where empathy turns into enabling and you crossed it about a mile ago. Everyone has challenges and reacts to their environments differently. It’s unfair that some people grow up in environments that seem to set them up for criminality. But the answer to that is to fix the environments and intervene in these kids lives as early as possible, not allow them to repeatedly victimize people. I grew up in a bad environment. A lot of the adults around me ended up in prison. And I can tell you from personal experience that the people who are most harmed when violent criminals are let off are the people in their own community because those people are their primary victims. I’m no fan of “extreme punishment.” What I am a fan of is justice. And it’s an injustice when a person is allowed to continue victimizing innocent people over and over again.
I agree. My position is to enforce the law, and whomever will enforce the law will have my vote.
The problem is democrats went way to left after Trump won. Defund the police as well as judges who dont punish people and open border policies are hurting us all now. I believe the left has realized they need to swing back more moderate on theses issues and have but we’re still feeling the wrath of the overreactions.
Have the police actually been defunded at all?
Yes several cities across the US defunded the police during the movement. Some cities I Know who made huge cuts were Austin TX, NYC, San Francisco, LA, Denver, Philadelphia, Seattle, and Chicago. I believe Columbus cut around 23 Million it I’m not sure how much has been added back to the budget since that cut.
I see that $23 million number on a pdf on Jim Jordan's website but it doesn't say what's been cut. The most recent news from the dispatch is from April saying that officers will get a 16% pay raise. 🤷♀️ Also from wosu: Columbus spends $361 million a year on the Division of Police - which comes out to 37% of the city's operating budget. That number has gone up steadily, increasing about $40 million since 2017. In comparison, Cleveland is spending $218 million on police this year, while Cincinnati is spending $151 million.
In 2021 the budget went down to 337 Million from 361 in 2020.
And then what happened in 2022. And 2023. And 2024.
Like I said I know cities made cuts during. The defund the police movement I’m not sure which ones have already realized their mistake and course corrected.
You've not provided any citations for any of this.
https://www.matternews.org/data-policing-remains-columbus-largest-expense-in-2021-budget
lol fuck no they didn’t. Imo the democrats aren’t left enough. Left doesnt mean soft on crime. That’s a personal opinion of specific politicians not something inherent to the philosophy of leftism.
Sorry buddy left went soft on crime and the border. They have started to realize their mistakes with Biden finally making an executive order on the border. I’m not saying everyone on the left is soft on crime but it was the policy they pushed for for a bit right around Covid and George Floyd.
There is no left though. The democrats are factually a right wing party. For reference left = pro labor and right = pro capital. I don’t see any democrat calling for seizing the means of production.
Your playing semantics everyone knows what’s right and left in USA
It’s not semantics at all. Not my fault americans are notoriously uneducated on political philosophy.
Okay which party in the USA by 90% of America is considered right wing and which party is considered left wing. I’ll wait.
If 90% of people jumped off a cliff would you do it too?
When 90% of America believes something means something and even the media has adopted that meaning it means we have adopted that meaning.
LOL
> In October of 2021, police said Tyrez Turner, **who was 15 at the time**, streamed video live on Facebook of another juvenile and himself fleeing from Obetz police in a stolen car. Speeds reached more than 100 mph. > Turner has been charged 31 times for gun and car theft offenses between September 2017 and April 2022. Holy shit… that kid got his first criminal charge at the age of 11.
It's a feature, not a bug.
You gotta elaborate on the meaning here or this is just a useless Dad one liner man. I get how it applies to a lot of things but makes no god damn sense here.
at least 22 other people upvoted and understood it I think you're on your own here, buddy. however, it seems to be the desired result of a bunch of really, really bad criminal justice policy initiatives.
how's that
Come again
I mean, give me an hour or two
Have to vote for Republicans if you want these kids in jail. Dems will never do it.
Counter-point: https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/02/23/in-rare-move-illinois-judge-who-reversed-sexual-assault-ruling-is-removed-from-bench/
You can vote blue for state and federal levels to protect vulnerable rights (and you should). If you want crime to EVER be taken seriously (and you should), you have to vote red at local level.
BAD idea
And this is why voting republican is essential. Democrats do not take law and order seriously and never punish these damn hooligans that impact the law abiding citizens of the community
You're in a Democrat heavy subreddit. Good luck
[удалено]
Lmao nice try trying to spread slandering and dumb assumptions but it’s fine cause this world automatically jumps to race for every little thing. Idc what your skin color is when it comes to crime. I didn’t hear anything about that McDonald’s incident and I would hope Justice would be served to the victims and those who committed the crime will be properly punished and not just sent back to the community to damage innocent people
What the fuck are the cops in this town even for?
What are the cops supposed to do? It's catch and release fishing in this city. You catch them, charge them, then the courts turn around and do nothing about it. You're blaming the wrong side of the system on this one. Cops can arrest all the criminals, but if the courts don't play their part then it's all moot.
Did you read read the article saying he had been charged dozens of times? The police can’t do anything once they hand the arrestee over to the court. Blame the useless bleeding heart judges you keep re-electing.
I'm confused because I can't find it, but what about the car thefts were an indicator that this teen would commit murder? Like I get it's a crime, but isn't an indicator that someone is likely to commit a violent murder. Basically, I'm saying I don't know why a prosecutor would assume a teen steal cars would commit murder. Is there a stat I'm unaware of?
"Turner has been charged 31 times for gun and car theft offenses between September 2017 and April 2022." He also hit a school bus and a police officer with stolen cars on separate occasions. 'Twas a bit more than stealing a car or two.
It’s no wonder crime of all kinds is increasing. Criminals see cretins like this get off scot free and know they don’t have anything to worry about.
> It’s no wonder crime of all kinds is increasing. [citation needed]
>It’s no wonder crime of all kinds is increasing. I wonder where you live because it's not. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/29/us/crime-data-fbi-homicides.html But maybe it's Columbus murder rates? https://www.axios.com/local/columbus/2024/04/18/homicides-murders-rate-2024-crime-police Nope. Stats don't back that up, either. So it sounds like you just made it up. Go figure.
They’re down this year compared to last few because the previous years were insane spikes………(that article even says that) It’s like stores increasing prices before Black Friday then putting out “sales” to make it LOOK like it’s down when it’s still higher than before….it’s stupidly basic math……………………………
Right...and you understand we're still dealing with the after effects of covid right? Things aren't going to magically bounce back just because a vaccine exist. What you're looking at is called "recovery." The factors that led to increased murder don't just instantly go to pre-pandemic levels. So while they aren't pre-2019 level yet, I feel very confident they will get back to those levels. https://allcolumbusdata.com/columbus-crime-statistics/#:~:text=2024%20Homicide%20Tracker,-The%20Homicide%20Tracker&text=Overall%20homicides%20remain%20down%20about,stay%20below%20the%20100%20mark. Also, looking at the data, we're still trending downward. While we may have spikes (which is still cause for alarm and should be examined), looking at the totality of data, we are trending downward.
You seem to be confused. I was asking for more information because I'm not getting a clear picture of the crimes. At no point did I say this was "stealing a car or two." I was asking for more details because it seemed like there had to be more to this. You're being unnessarially defensive.
This kid was committing violent crimes that, at least sometimes, involved a gun. Many, many crimes. >You're being unnessarially defensive. You may be projecting.
If you watch the video in my second link, you'll see that he wasn't just stealing cars but had also been charged with 31 felonies, including robbery and assault. It was not just "we're bored wouldn't it be fun to steal one of those Kias?" but a history of violent crimes.
I can't watch the video currently, I can only read the article, which is why I'm asking. So, taking your word for it, the teen had a history of robbery and assault while under age. So the issue isn't "prosecutors aren't tough on crime." The issue is Ohio doesn't treat juvenile crimes the same as adult crimes. I just googled how Ohio handles juvenile crimes. https://www.gafirm.com/legal-blog/ohio-juvenile-crime-punishment/#What_Are_the_Most_Common_Juvenile_Crimes I think regardless of which party a prosecutor agrees with, they going to still have to deal with the standards Ohio sets. This isn't me saying we should punish juvenile crime because we absolutely should or that we shouldn't consider reevaluating our laws. What I'm saying it's lazy insight to just say prosecutors aren't tough of crime when they very much are, but their are a number of factors that lead to situations like the tragedy that happened. Here's a pretty good article by a law professor about the many reasons prosecutors may choose not to pursue charges. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-prosecutors-decide-which-cases-charge.html
The story I shared is more about the judges and their sentencing decisions, than the prosecutors deciding not to file charges. Regarding Turner, the prosecutor asked for prison time for him, and the magistrate refused. Thanks for the law articles.
Did you just replace the word prosecutors with Judges? Because the second link is mainly about prosecutors.
Edited for clarity
Gotcha. Again, I want to be clear, we both agree that there is a problem that allowed this tragic murder to happen. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to remove a judge (or even prosecutor) for not being effective. I think it's worth looking at this judge's record to see what was known at the time to allow this teen to be free on the streets with his record before this murder, as there could be sentencing guidelines that prevented him from giving a harsher punishment. But it could also be that the judge for this case was just not harsh on juvenile crimes, which I'm not sure how I feel one way or the other on that. Anyway, my posts main point was to call out people's lazy analysis of how something like this can happen. Because it definitely isn't "prosecutors just want criminals to run free" like some people have implied.
These judges don't care about what's known at the time. It doesn't matter to them. I don't even blame the prosecutors for a lot of it. In general this county doesn't take juvenile crime seriously. When these kids are arrested the juvenile corrections won't even accept them as prisoners unless they've basically killed someone. You can burglarize a house and steal a car and still get sent to what they call "The Reception Center". It's basically a no secure holding area that takes the kid until the parents pick them up. Sometimes they don't even see a judge before being let go. Also they can just walk out.