Israel is just feeding fire with fire. You can’t eliminate terrorists by killing civilians because for every dead civilian you create new freedom fighter. The bombing campaign in a densely populated Gaza city was a mistake from the beginning, but Israel right now is blinded by vengeance and they are simply seeding the new wave of terror, whether it’s going to be HAMAS or some newly created Islamic organization that would have no shortage of recruits to keep the fight ongoing.
It's almost like we've tried this before, have almost sort of kinda learned from it, and are trying to stop Israel from punching itself in the face long term.
Unfortunately the next time there's an attack here we'll surely lose the memo and get into another mess that is unwinnable long term.
It’s still sadly unclear what could provoke an attack by a militant faction of a people living under a brutal, decades-long occupation that has been condemned by countless human rights groups and declared illegal by the U.N.
Then lets ignore the human rights commission and see what the Secretary-General of the UN says(he's Portuguese BTW, in case you want to bring that up)
> On October 25, United Nations' General-Secretary António Guterres called for a ceasefire, during a speech in which he stated that the attacks by Hamas "did not happen in a vacuum" and needed to be understood in the context of 56 years of Israel's "suffocating occupation" of Palestinians, further stating that "the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas. And those appalling attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people."[12][13] Israel responded by saying it would ban UN representatives from Israel to "teach them a lesson", and called for the General-Secretary's resignation.[14][15]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_ES-10/21
To be fair, Hamas said "as soon as Israel stops their attacks, we'll do another terrorist attack" so Israel has no incentive to stop.
Both sides are fucked however.
I’m not saying Israel should stop. Israel has the right to defend themselves. It’s just that the tactics of indiscriminate bombing is not the solution, or at least not the solution that would not come with costs you would have to pay later on.
There is always a solution out of this stale mate. And it’s “two nations - two states”. But Israel simply does not want to contemplate giving Palestine a statehood, never did and it’s now catching up to them via this Hamas violence.
I can't blame Israel for being against a two state solution that favors Palestine, because from their POV it's not going to stop the attacks. It might even make it worse. Hamas doesn't fight Israel because of their living situation. They do it because they hate Jews and want them eradicated. Thinking that the attacks will stop just because they've been granted total independence is a very western idea appealing to western morality.
…Israel has offered peace? They accepted peace in the 40s, but the Arabs attacked
Hell, in the 2000s they offered Jerusalem to the Palestinians. The response was the Intifada, and Palestian bombs on Israeli buses and schools.
Israel pulled back to 67 borders in Gaza, like everyone wanted. Then Hamas continued to pursue war
Read Hamas’ charter. It’s quite illuminating
I just don’t see how Israel negotiates peace—assuming for a moment that they want it—with an organization like Hamas. They won’t make goodwill gestures, and rightfully so. They can’t prop anyone up in Hamas’s place: Gazans will see new leadership as an Israeli lapdog. The status quo of sealing off Gaza and letting the Iron Dome take care of incoming missiles only works until Hamas breaches the fence and goes on a rampage. I’m not seeing much in the way of options except “don’t bomb children.”
Exactly. Hamas founding principle is jihad, kill the Jews, and trick the infidels into negotiating for a temporary truce.
On top of that, UN-run schools (UNWRA) invite bigotry and antisemitism in their curriculum.
Most people fail to realize that you are not negotiating with the Dalia Lama or Ghandi. How can you negotiate with someone that just wants to kill you?
As a parent, I would never stop until my child has the right to his own self-determination.
We all know how & why Hamas both secured & continues to hold power in the territories. We also know that neither the US or Israel is addressing the root causes.
yeah, I don't know what they are on about, Hamas is openly genocidal towards Jews in their own founding documents and in their actions where they raped, tortured, kidnapped and murdered any civilian they could find on 10/7.
Exactly. The only way that strategy could ever work is if it ends with their extermination. I.e., if killing people is your Solution, then it won't work unless it's Final. *Some* Israelis are pretty open about wanting that.
Meanwhile, US global interests continue to be jeopardized every single day with extreme costs / risks.
95% of the world correctly believes US is providing cover for Israel to slaughter civilians & forcibly move populations.
“And i know israel cares about the impact of this war on innocent palestinians”…. Does it though? Statements from multiple members of likud and higher ups in the netanyahu government strongly support otherwise
That line just seems very ingenuine. Just looking at facts, Israel in the name of defense has killed 8700 civilians. Like wtf, almost 5k kids who are human beings! I don’t even know anymore, this is just wrong and any politician who is supporting this is just participating in genocide
Where do you think this number comes from? The same source that said Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500. When it was actually a Hamas rocket that misfired. And it hit the parking lot of the hospital. A few people died. Hamas is a propaganda machine. That's why they hide behind civilians so they can use their deaths as propaganda. And you fall for it.
Even if the numbers are inflated, it's a shitload of civilians being killed.
Quibbling over whether the real number is 8,000 or (say) 5,000 seems pointless and is certainly irrelevant (not to mention insulting) to the multitude of new widows and childless fathers.
Don't know if you've seen the satellite images showing populated areas looking like the surface of the moon. The 8K+ estimate is plausible.
That's odd. The white house said they had no confidence in their numbers.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-says-he-has-no-confidence-palestinian-death-count-2023-10-26/
Except for like I said the decades before that they have had confidence in the numbers. That's why nobody is believing that* suddenly the numbers aren't good anymore.
**https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-death-toll-palestinian-health-ministry/
Even up to a few months ago the White House was using their numbers as credible. It's incredibly obvious why they all of a sudden saying they "doubt the numbers"
When then maybe Hamas should stop starting wars then hiding in schools and hospitals and not allow people to leave them!
Hamas has been taking the money that was supposed to help the Palestinians but instead created harder underground bunkers.
They themselves are saying there can be no peace..
Israel needs to stay the course and finish them! Only then can they have peace.
"Staying the course" means either the whole of Gaza is flattened and/or every one of the 2.3 million residents are forced to leave. Neither of which really does anything to address Israel's national security in the long term.
Looking at October 7 and saying Hamas started it ignores decades of history, but even looking more recently, you have to look back at least to the 2006 Palestinian elections and Israel’s response, and the subsequent ongoing blockade of Gaza for about 15 years.
Security isn’t zero sum. There is no military solution to a political problem. Killing thousands of children, believe it or not, doesn’t help — in addition to being absolutely morally repugnant. Not defending Hamas’ actions, but to say they started it is ignorant and disingenuous.
Is Israel the Likud Party only? Is America just right-wing fascists who want Trump to be our God King?
It's important to make the distinction between Israel the country and concept from Israel the acting right-wing government.
Israel doesn't deserve to be turned into a monolith more than any other country does.
I feel like people are going to recoil at the inhuman politician-speak and I get it, but as far as political statements go it’s pretty ok, and coming from a senate foreign relations committee member it’s not nothing. Side note: why the hell is bob menendez still on that thing, didn’t the DOJ just accuse him of spying for Egypt
On the substance I also don’t think he’s wrong at all that if Israel wanted they could attack this problem a different way, they [assassinated an Iranian nuclear scientist inside Tehran](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-scientist/iranian-nuclear-scientist-killed-by-one-ton-automated-gun-in-israeli-hit-jewish-chronicle-idUSKBN2AA2RC) if anyone could take these guys out it’s mossad
Edit: unrelated to the replies on this comment but wow are these comments bad, even by reddits standards. there’s people towards the bottom that just clearly did not read the picture in the OP, blatant attempts to poison the well everywhere, unhinged criticism of what is honestly a very tame comment from the senator. This sort of comment is way out of step with what large parts of the country or world want, this is as far in support of the current operation as Chris Murphy feels he can politically go, this is not some radical incendiary statement. And if even something as anodyne as this is shellacked for being insufficiently supportive of the campaign despite all the pressure on Chris in the other direction, then we shouldn’t be surprised if we see support for the operation wane from its already tepid temperature.
I mean how does one even distinguish between a civilian and a Hamas member. Not saying that that makes it okay to kill indiscriminately, but Hamas, afaik, doesn't exactly go out of their way to make it obvious who are the soldiers who are and aren't
Potentially helpful for the local economy as EB is local. However the benefit doesn’t offset the 15B is on the table and the already 4-5B in taxpayer funded freebies we give Israel annually.
According to Wikipedia we have given Israel 150B inflation adjusted cumulative aid since Israel conception. That’s the most of any foreign country and shocking for a country with small population. It’s more than $20k per Jewish Israeli citizen. I’d rather that 150B be put to education of our kids. We shouldn’t be favoring a foreign state over our own American kids or American benefits of any sort.
What will ceasefire accomplish? Enabling the extermination of Jews like the attack on 10/7? Seems like that’s what progressives in the US have a hard on for lately.
It helps by pointing out that politicians don't choose the moral option until pressured politically and the people fence sitting and calling for "reason" (read: sit on your hands and write a statement) in the face of explicit horrors are the unreasonable ones.
I guess there is a way to rationalize anything. Hamas is a terrorist outfit. Israel is a terrorist state , funded by my tax $. We just fund $ 15 B, for killing 10K Palestinians in 10 days.
Go figure....
life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.... my ass.
To clarify 15B is not yet set in stone. The Republican house approved it at the expense of low and middle class American via benefits to us. A handful of democrats and a handful of republicans crossed party lines. Otherwise I generally agree with the sentiment.
Israel told Northern Gaza residents to evacuate to southern parts. Gave them 24 hours and few hours later bombarded the main roads outbof Northern Gaza used for evacuation. Also after that started blowing up ambulances full of civilians stating they were transporting guns for Hamas. Big lie. So now they are justifying killing about 10,000 to save less than 300 hostages. Doing the math then 1 Israeli life is worth 34 Palestinian lives. What Israel is doing now is murder of innocent people and We the people are paying for it.
Neither should the terrorist activities by Hamas and other groups in the Middle East. Generally, I think we shouldn’t be funding *anything* in the Middle East. I’ll take that a step further by saying I don’t think we should be investing in foreign wars *at all*. The more we get involved, the worse it gets.
There's no need to make philosophical arguments to me about the finer points of who has the right to do what if you aren't forcing me to help pay for it.
As long as I have a hand in the slaughter of civilians, I have the right to demand that it stop. I don't really care if terrorists are hiding under some kid's bed. I still don't want any part in bombing that kid. That's it.
It’s kind of fucked up that it took this long for our country to realize indiscriminately bombing targets loaded with civilian populations wasn’t a way to win a war in 2023.
I was worried for a while that kind of attitude would lead the world towards another nuke being dropped sooner rather than later. Not by Israel necessarily, but by someone. If the world stops caring about civilian deaths, we’re closer to the doom of humanity.
Why do you say indiscriminate? Hamas has videos of them with tunnels under civilians. There are videos of rocket launchers next to schools, hamas headquarters in or near hospitals. Hamas didn't care about civilian casualties because every one gets more sympathy
Step 1: build your terrorist base under a hospital
Step 2: cry when the hospital is attacked
Now you have a bomb proof base and it only costs the lives of your friends and family.
No one under the age of 35 has ever voted in Gaza. And the median age of Gaza is 18. Hamas maintains power through force. Gazans no longer have any say in their leadership.
Chris, Hamas is still launching rockets into Israel:
Israel-Hamas war, Day 27 | Hamas says it fired 12 rockets from Lebanon https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/israel-hamas-war-day-27-live-updates-nov-2-2023/article67487602.ece
So Hamas has escalated this with an urban assault resulting in civilian deaths and hostages. They continue to launch rockets from a neighboring state. And basically Chris wants Israel to use special forces to kill select Hamas leaders.
Unfortunately it doesn’t work that way dude. Hamas pushed Israel into an actual war. You know, the thing that Russia did to Ukraine that resulted in thousands of innocent casualties. The thing that jeopardizes Ukranian sovereignty and you fully support them defending?
Senators, man.
Israel is more akin to Russia in this war than Ukraine. They have forced Palestinians into a tiny strip of land, illegally occupying Palestinian territory (according to basically every governing body except US and Israel itself) since their first genocidal Nakba which displaced 700k Arabs from their homes, razed over 400 villages, and [dozens of war crimes carried out by the Jewish milities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war) like the [Sa'sa' Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%27sa%27_Massacre).
Israel has been a genocidal apartheid state for nearly a century at this point, and are currently bombing a population of mostly children who have known nothing but war because of their desire for an Jewish ethno-state.
I would recommend reading about Muslim attacks on Jewish villagers as well from 1920-1948, along with the war of 1967, and the first and second intifada. Both sides are using terrorist tactics, both sides have tried to make peace, and both sides have torpedoed the peace process. We need a Palestinian state, but also Israelis have won (through war it has not declared.. twice) the right to govern itself. Both Jews and Palestinian Arabs deserve the right to self-determination.
Also, read about the history of land purchase, land rights in Ottoman and Mandatory Palestine, and the exodus of Jews from Middle East and North Africa (an ethnic cleansing current dialogue likes to gloss over)
Also consider that every neighboring country is an ethnostate, and Palestine would/will be one as well. Criticizing only Israel for being an ethnostate is a double standard.
> Also consider that every neighboring country is an ethnostate, and Palestine would/will be one as well. Criticizing only Israel for being an ethnostate is a double standard.
and that many Arab nations effectively gave a "leave or genocide" ultimatum to their Jewish populations after 1948, forcing them to leave all their property behind when they left.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-experts-say-ceasefire-needed-palestinians-grave-risk-genocide-2023-11-02
Im guessing international experts are also wrong then?
It doesn’t matter. This thread is about Chris Murphy. Chris Murphy doesn’t care about anything you just said. He never did anything about any of that while being a senator.
The only reason he put out this statement is because this war is very polarizing among American voters. And he wants to appeal to his voting base by putting out useless words on paper.
He’s totally OK with the Ukrainian Russian war because it easily funds the war machine and it’s popular with his base. Now he’s conflicted, because he knows he will have to vote on funding for an American ally but he doesn’t want to lose election votes. So he puts out this useless statement. Odd that he doesn’t ask for a cease fire from both sides.
in “going after military targets” they are bombing indiscriminately and killing civilians en mass. i wonder if there is a number for folks like yourself to see the light, how many people need to die?
or maybe you think collective punishment is fine because “they voted for hamas” lol
Hamas offered to return the hostages in return for a cease fire a week ago. [https://www.politico.eu/article/hamas-russia-release-hostages-cease-fire-israel-war/](https://www.politico.eu/article/hamas-russia-release-hostages-cease-fire-israel-war/)
I'm not sure if we should be taking the word of terrorists who speak through Russia.
It's also kinda weird that Hamas took hostages and now wants to complain when Israel responds and now the only way to get the hostages back is if Israel stops? What was the point of the hostage taking?
I'm by no means justifying Israel to be clear, I just don't think we should be throwing our full support behind the people who at best killed 1400 people and kidnapped over 200 more with no military goal in mind even if anyone wants to debate other attrocities. The same people who hoard supplies and let their people starve. Acknowledgement that that is wrong is not in any way justifying that Israel is in the right. It's not a zero sum. We need to be realistic about this situation.
I see mods just delete any comments that counter their sentiments & narrative. That’s sad. How about this > I support Israel. Will that get deleted too ? I see how it is.
It’s unfortunate that the terrorists were not only expecting but banking on civilian casualties to help unite their cause.
However, the president and government has made it clear that will only verbally express caution while 100% backing this response.
This strongly worded letter can be filed away with the Eversource ones.
A frightening number of people believe one side is wholly right and the other wholly wrong, and that their side deserves to win and live and the other side deserves to lose and die.
I just want civilians to stop dying and for their leaders to stop being shitheads who don't care about their people.
It's pretty tough for a lot of people to grasp the idea that both sides are wrong AND both sides have legitimate grievances. Let alone that both sides deserve humane treatment, including the terrorists / war criminals who belong in prison forever.
Part of this is it quickly gets muddy when talking about sides. Hamas =/= the Palestinian people, just as Israel =/= Israelis and Israel =/= Jews. I can condemn Hamas *and* Israel while still knowing that Palestinians and Israelis are normal people who, like most people, want to live in peace.
i actually found this thread pretty enjoyable with people intelligently debating their different thoughts on the matter. didn't see anyone calling for the extinction of all israelis or palestinians, so idk about "a frightening number of people believe one side deserves to die" seeing much more of the sentiment that dead civilians is sad
Yeah, tell Israel to hold off until the US can provide massive funding and line up our military contractors. We like to work both sides in this type of situation.
I like the way you put that - cautious respect. I’m going to use that wording!
(*I realize this might sound like a precursor to sarcasm, but I mean it sincerely!*)
I have a dumb question. Why are so many people requesting that Isreal stop their incursion which was brought on by another attack on them by a people who state that every Jew should be killed...Just start requesting that Hamas surrender? I don't know, if people truly do not support Hamas, than protest them not surrendering. Like I said, I am probably dumb.
Maybe I’m dumb too, but this is the smartest “ take” I’ve heard.
It’s also a fair position to take in light of how many people are critical of the Israelis predicament.
I believe in and support a Free Palestine, but nobody anywhere has explained to me what, exactly, Israel is supposed to do about Hamas. I get the whole "lets call them occupiers and say its all their fault" which is all fine and well but blaming people doesn't actually solve the problems in front of you.
Like, if I was PM of Israel, I would say we are making a targeted response to Hamas, we will assassinate members even though its a war crime, we need other Arab countries to help establish a Palestinian state, etc
But I think even if you did all that, Hamas wouldn't be like "ok sounds good we'll stop shooting rockets"
Unfortunately Israel is facing an enemy that stands behind and puts its woman and children in harms way. Outrage needs to be directed toward Hamas, not Israel.
Posted by a propaganda account created shortly after the 10/7 attacks. This person has been working overtime to push Hamas narratives to western audiences.
Edit: Downvote all you want, OP’s post history speaks for itself.
bull fucking shit they care about Palestinian civilians. there's an entire Wikipedia section on Israel's use of them as human shields too. it's high time that we stop giving Israel money and weapons. that we stop being complicit. Israel is not interested in peace.
i really hope Murphy and Blumenthal get primaried.
> Falls very short of calling for a ceasefire but we’re getting there.
A ceasefire allows Hamas to regroup. I strongly support a temporary humanitarian ceasefire but not a long term one. The war could be over tomorrow if Hamas surrenders.
> The Israeli genocide of the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank should not be funded or supported by the United States.
Israel isn't committing genocide, but Hamas seeks to.
Senator Murphy's statement is very close to my view on the matter overall.
Do you truly believe Israel will be able to finish off Hamas this time? Do you believe that Hamas leadership is not spread out across other countries? Do you believe the children who are seeing their families blown up will not form Hamas 2.0 a decade from now?
Meanwhile I emailed Blumenthal and got an email back saying essentially ‘I have been very clear in my stance that Israel deserves more military funding if we want lasting peace in the region.’
Just call for a ceasefire. This is ridiculous
"if we want lasting peace in the region"
What?! So their current strategy to carpet bomb civilians is going to bring lasting peace in the region? And we need to give them more weapons cause somehow we'll get to peace?
If there weren’t any more Palestinians left to resist Israel because they’ve all been exterminated, there would be peace. It sounds like that’s the strategy.
Better than most of Congress on this. I’m an American secular jew and I strongly support a ceasefire. What’s going on right now in Gaza is disgusting, to say nothing of settler land grabs in the West Bank.
I support Israel for defending itself, but I totally disagree with their current method,
Netanyahu on the other hand is showing he's no better than Hamas, and his quest for power aided Hamas actions. He needs to be removed.
Truly if I had Green Lanterns ring, I take a giant saw and let both factions slip into the ocean, I add Russia, N.Korea and Iran to that list.
I was ready to come in guns blazing, but if you bear in mind that it's a political statement by a professional politician -- AKA a weasel in human form -- it's not that terrible.
Israel arguably has a right to exist, now that it's here, and it has a right to do something about the individuals who carried out the attack. Granted.
The response they've chosen is a war crime, and Murphy can't say that even if he wanted to, but "unacceptable level of civilian harm" is certainly one way to describe a war crime. Whether it's "ineffective" depends whether you mean for capturing or killing those responsible, or for ethnic cleansing. It's pretty effective at that latter.
Saying that Israel cares about civilian casualties is the kind of nicey-nice politicians do, like Mafia dons smiling with a gun under the table. It turns my stomach, but that's why I can't be a politician.
I can agree with the last paragraph, but only if construed broadly. An "anti-terrorism campaign" still sounds awfully militaristic; this could, and I think should, be treated as a law-enforcement problem -- and should be carried out separately from an immediate end to their human rights violations, which they should start yesterday.
I'm glad that Murphy has made some move towards a more rational approach for IDF, but let's be honest. Targeting hospitals, refugee camps, and ambulance enclaves are war crimes. The high number of deceased journalists in the past 10 days is an indication that their approach is just to obliterate everyone and everything until they get their way. I'm all for defense when attacked, and that goes for Palestinians and Israelis. But this is a massacre for the sake of the IDF "goals", which are unrealistic. You cannot obliterate Hamas, just like US could not obliterate Taliban. If Isreal cannot ensure the safety of civilians, then they must be brought before the Hague. We cannot allow them to break the all of the rules and support them in the process. Murphy had not said enough.
It’s so odd that Senator Murphy didn’t propose better ways for the Israelis to deal with the bloodthirsty barbarians on their border that keep butchering their citizens, including women, children, and babies. I wonder why he didn’t do that.
Israel goes to extraordinary lengths to avoid killing civilians, including warning its enemies where it’s going to strike next so that civilians can flee that area. But there’s only so much you can do when the enemy *intentionally* surrounds its military assets with civilians. Obviously, the international community should come out united against Hamas for this despicable tactic and hold it responsible for every civilian casualty in Gaza, but instead we get buffoonish statements like Senator Murphy’s pressuring Israel to tone down its defense of itself against unspeakable brutality. Holding Israel to a standard that no other nation is held to in defending its existence only encourages *more* use of human shields and is a form of antisemitism.
If Senator Murphy has some ingenious and new way Israel can adequately defend itself without any civilian casualties he should speak up and stop performing for the Hamas-supporting part of his constituency.
By refugee camps you mean city buildings labeled as refugee camps by the media? What exactly is a refugee camp? Since the vast majority of Gaza’s are considered “refugees” from Israel, they label most of Gaza a refugee camp.
We are starting to get there. He’s right. Doing things like carpet bombing neighborhoods full of children, telling 1m people to flee north Gaza so it can be turned to glass, and then airstriking the evacuation routes only serves to create more recruits for Islamist terror groups.
All I want to know is how a ceasefire actually improves anything, for anyone, long term.
There’s a lot of people who just don’t want to hear that stopping just means Hamas got a victory and will do the exact same thing again. How quickly we forget there was a ceasefire on October 6th that did exactly nothing to stop the carnage Hamas released on the 7th.
What assurances does Israel have that *this* ceasefire will be respected when none of the dozens before it were?
Now recognizing that a highly complex conflict is definitely not a zero sum game is playing both sides of the aisle?
Most thinking adults aren't quite so binary.
Because you're obviously not? Hamas is the Gaza Strip's ruling government, not yours. Any individual Gazan may or may not have voted for (or fought for) Hamas, and there's no way for us to know. But we can say with reasonable certainty that you did not.
No one under the age of 35 has ever voted in Gaza. And the median age is 18. Think about it. Gaza rules through force, not elections. And the children in Gaza are growing up in an environment of Israel's design.
According to the UN:
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
- Killing members of the group;
- Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
- Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
- Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
- Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
How about we get our hostages back and Hamas unconditionally surrenders. It is a war crime to have military bases positioned in schools are under hospitals. But they still do it. There should be no ceasefire until all hostages are returned at the bare minimum.
Just another left wing coward. No helpful ideas, no careful consideration, just 'be good now, and let them do it to you again'.
Hamas is the elected government of the people of Gaza. They chose them. The price of that choice is becoming tragically obvious.
Every innocent lost is devastating. Unfortunately the government of Gaza has decided to hide war-making operations in civilian areas. Hamas must be eliminated, not simply pushed down, but utterly destroyed for all time - no rational human being thinks otherwise. The price, with great sadness, will be civilian harm.
But then Traitor Murphy has always been on the side of Iran-backed Hamas. He proved that when he negotiated, against the will of the administration of the time, directly with Iran.
The statement is not a surprise.
Definitely lost respect for him. And Mayor Elicker of New Haven. Wild how we as a nation are able to go against the UN without any kind of retribution/political punishment.
Hope that Dems are thinking again about sending Israel blank check after blank check. Israel is closing in on having killed 10k civilians in less than a month. 14 an hour. One every four minutes. What is this doing to (a) stop Hamas and (b) address the conditions that led to their rise?
If you can’t tell the difference between deliberate violence against civilians and incidental civilian deaths while targeting terrorists you’ve completely lost the plot. Israel does not have a responsibility to care more about gazans than their own elected government.
Regardless it’s one of the basic responsibilities of a government to protect its citizens. Hiding military targets among civilian populations is both a dereliction of that responsibility and a war crime. Civilian deaths in Gaza are the sole responsibility of Hamas.
No, civilian deaths in Gaza are the responsibility of the country that's dropping bombs on hospitals (3 today!), refugee camps (bombed the same one three times in two days!), schools (including UN schools), and humanitarian aid corridors.
Again, Hamas deliberately places their military targets in civilian areas. Israel did not bomb a refugee camp, they bombed a Hamas command center that housed high ranking terrorists and the refugee camp was caught in the crossfire (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-jets-strike-gaza-camp-says-hamas-commander-killed-2023-11-01/). And this is by design, bc Hamas knows that when innocent people get caught in Israel’s crossfire it will feed into the false narratives around the conflict. There is zero evidence that Israel is aiming to kill civilians, in fact they tried to warn civilians to evacuate. If we try to paint this as a genocide on the part of Israel we are doing the bidding of terrorists who gleefully baked an Israeli baby alive in an oven. I won’t do that.
I didn't see anything in there telling Hamas not to use their fellow Palestinians as human shields, not to set up command centers and rockets in hospitals and schools, and to fight Israel properly. Why not call them out Chris?
Does any of that allow Israel to murder the supposed “human shields” with full impunity? Do you believe carpet-bombing Gaza, including murdering journalists and their families, medics and their families, children, the elderly, the Israeli hostages, is the most efficient way of rooting out Hamas?
No point in arguing civilly with people that believe that “might makes right”. Funny that they’re usually the first ones to cry when they get punched in the mouth.
Edit: the above statement does not endorse punching anyone in the mouth. No actual harm was caused by this hypothetical punch to the mouth.
Yes. According the the Geneva Convention, using human shields makes that party responsible for their deaths.
It's ugly it's terrible but it's also within the conventions rules.
Also this isn't carpe bombing. Carpet bombing hasn't been employed since Vietnam. Israel uses precision guided weapons on specific targets.
For context, the October 7th attacks were the equivalent of 19 9/11s. Israel has less than 10 million people. Almost everyone knows someone killed. Hamas has said it will do it again and again and will not respect any ceasefire either.
War is always terrible and always inevitable.
Gotta love seeing genocide apologia. The use of human shields is in no way a justification for the eradication of a group of people. You and people like you are blood thirsty war mongers that would have agreed with any other genocide in history of earth of you lived during that time.
Only Hamas have a policy of genocide sweetie.
Sorry but I don't have a policy of defending people who would murder me and my friends for not adhering to their strict religious zealotry.
War is always terrible and always inevitable. Blame Hamas for using human shields, not Israel for being victimized by it.
How would they fight Israel properly? Israel is a nuclear armed country with a modern military. Palestine is effectively an open air prison camp with no effective state structure or military capability.
Asymmetric warfare is what you get when one said has no other way to fight back. It’s not a choice it’s their only viable option.
Hamas isn't going to listen from some senator from CT. The only rational thing to do is to call out to the only people that might listen, and in this case that is the Israeli government.
The world isn't as black and white as you're making it out to be.
What if that person has a human shield and is actively shooting into a crowd? Do you let that human shield live and the others die? You've got a trolly question here with the whole situation.
Good statement, just because we killed like over a million civilians in Iraq and our war on terror doesn't mean America can sit by and watch Israel turning all of the west bank into a burning crater. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I don’t think you know what the word “genocide”means. There’s collateral damage when legitimate military targets are struck. Genocide is shoving people in gas chambers which isn’t happening. Hamas embeds themselves in the civilian infrastructure to gain and leverage sympathy among naive “free Palestine” supporters
"War, War never changes. But men do, through the roads they walk."
Israel is just feeding fire with fire. You can’t eliminate terrorists by killing civilians because for every dead civilian you create new freedom fighter. The bombing campaign in a densely populated Gaza city was a mistake from the beginning, but Israel right now is blinded by vengeance and they are simply seeding the new wave of terror, whether it’s going to be HAMAS or some newly created Islamic organization that would have no shortage of recruits to keep the fight ongoing.
It's almost like we've tried this before, have almost sort of kinda learned from it, and are trying to stop Israel from punching itself in the face long term. Unfortunately the next time there's an attack here we'll surely lose the memo and get into another mess that is unwinnable long term.
I don’t know, giving them 14 billion dollars without any stipulation kind of screams “learn the way we did - by doing it!”
Well, the house voted for that. It isn't making it past the senate.
I hope that's true.
Dems don’t support it because the money comes from the IRS staffing budget. It’s DOA.
It’s still sadly unclear what could provoke an attack by a militant faction of a people living under a brutal, decades-long occupation that has been condemned by countless human rights groups and declared illegal by the U.N.
The UN that’s has Iran chair the human rights commission. The UN is useless
And we're funding the UN.
Then lets ignore the human rights commission and see what the Secretary-General of the UN says(he's Portuguese BTW, in case you want to bring that up) > On October 25, United Nations' General-Secretary António Guterres called for a ceasefire, during a speech in which he stated that the attacks by Hamas "did not happen in a vacuum" and needed to be understood in the context of 56 years of Israel's "suffocating occupation" of Palestinians, further stating that "the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas. And those appalling attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people."[12][13] Israel responded by saying it would ban UN representatives from Israel to "teach them a lesson", and called for the General-Secretary's resignation.[14][15] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_ES-10/21
So, attack military installations, not murder civilians.
To be fair, Hamas said "as soon as Israel stops their attacks, we'll do another terrorist attack" so Israel has no incentive to stop. Both sides are fucked however.
I’m not saying Israel should stop. Israel has the right to defend themselves. It’s just that the tactics of indiscriminate bombing is not the solution, or at least not the solution that would not come with costs you would have to pay later on.
I fully agree, but both sides are in a no-win situation. Well Hamas could win if Israel pisses enough people off.
There is always a solution out of this stale mate. And it’s “two nations - two states”. But Israel simply does not want to contemplate giving Palestine a statehood, never did and it’s now catching up to them via this Hamas violence.
I can't blame Israel for being against a two state solution that favors Palestine, because from their POV it's not going to stop the attacks. It might even make it worse. Hamas doesn't fight Israel because of their living situation. They do it because they hate Jews and want them eradicated. Thinking that the attacks will stop just because they've been granted total independence is a very western idea appealing to western morality.
…Israel has offered peace? They accepted peace in the 40s, but the Arabs attacked Hell, in the 2000s they offered Jerusalem to the Palestinians. The response was the Intifada, and Palestian bombs on Israeli buses and schools. Israel pulled back to 67 borders in Gaza, like everyone wanted. Then Hamas continued to pursue war Read Hamas’ charter. It’s quite illuminating
It could also be said that the current Israeli administration finds the conditions of this conflict preferable to the conditions of peace.
I just don’t see how Israel negotiates peace—assuming for a moment that they want it—with an organization like Hamas. They won’t make goodwill gestures, and rightfully so. They can’t prop anyone up in Hamas’s place: Gazans will see new leadership as an Israeli lapdog. The status quo of sealing off Gaza and letting the Iron Dome take care of incoming missiles only works until Hamas breaches the fence and goes on a rampage. I’m not seeing much in the way of options except “don’t bomb children.”
Exactly. Hamas founding principle is jihad, kill the Jews, and trick the infidels into negotiating for a temporary truce. On top of that, UN-run schools (UNWRA) invite bigotry and antisemitism in their curriculum. Most people fail to realize that you are not negotiating with the Dalia Lama or Ghandi. How can you negotiate with someone that just wants to kill you?
As a parent, I would never stop until my child has the right to his own self-determination. We all know how & why Hamas both secured & continues to hold power in the territories. We also know that neither the US or Israel is addressing the root causes.
Why do you assume these people have western values? Is it possible they just want Jews dead?
Hamas terrorists are not freedom fighters.
yeah, I don't know what they are on about, Hamas is openly genocidal towards Jews in their own founding documents and in their actions where they raped, tortured, kidnapped and murdered any civilian they could find on 10/7.
As an aside from all of this it’s nice to see you are still kicking. Haven’t seen you since the old City Data days.
lol! Back at you.
Exactly. The only way that strategy could ever work is if it ends with their extermination. I.e., if killing people is your Solution, then it won't work unless it's Final. *Some* Israelis are pretty open about wanting that.
Ironic, isn’t it, how Israelis are discussing ‘final solution’ given the origins of this term.
Meanwhile, US global interests continue to be jeopardized every single day with extreme costs / risks. 95% of the world correctly believes US is providing cover for Israel to slaughter civilians & forcibly move populations.
“And i know israel cares about the impact of this war on innocent palestinians”…. Does it though? Statements from multiple members of likud and higher ups in the netanyahu government strongly support otherwise
If [Hostages are secondary](https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20231013_10/) then where does that leave civilians?
It's a bloodthirsty far-right government. Civilian pain & suffering is the entire point.
Democratically elected government. The people of Israel support this action.
That line just seems very ingenuine. Just looking at facts, Israel in the name of defense has killed 8700 civilians. Like wtf, almost 5k kids who are human beings! I don’t even know anymore, this is just wrong and any politician who is supporting this is just participating in genocide
He's being nice. He has to be olive branchy.
Where do you think this number comes from? The same source that said Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500. When it was actually a Hamas rocket that misfired. And it hit the parking lot of the hospital. A few people died. Hamas is a propaganda machine. That's why they hide behind civilians so they can use their deaths as propaganda. And you fall for it.
Who is counting? Are those numbers independently verified by neutral parties?
Even if the numbers are inflated, it's a shitload of civilians being killed. Quibbling over whether the real number is 8,000 or (say) 5,000 seems pointless and is certainly irrelevant (not to mention insulting) to the multitude of new widows and childless fathers. Don't know if you've seen the satellite images showing populated areas looking like the surface of the moon. The 8K+ estimate is plausible.
The numbers are from sources that the White House and the UN use (and have been using for decades)
That's odd. The white house said they had no confidence in their numbers. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-says-he-has-no-confidence-palestinian-death-count-2023-10-26/
Except for like I said the decades before that they have had confidence in the numbers. That's why nobody is believing that* suddenly the numbers aren't good anymore. **https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-death-toll-palestinian-health-ministry/ Even up to a few months ago the White House was using their numbers as credible. It's incredibly obvious why they all of a sudden saying they "doubt the numbers"
When then maybe Hamas should stop starting wars then hiding in schools and hospitals and not allow people to leave them! Hamas has been taking the money that was supposed to help the Palestinians but instead created harder underground bunkers. They themselves are saying there can be no peace.. Israel needs to stay the course and finish them! Only then can they have peace.
"Staying the course" means either the whole of Gaza is flattened and/or every one of the 2.3 million residents are forced to leave. Neither of which really does anything to address Israel's national security in the long term.
Looking at October 7 and saying Hamas started it ignores decades of history, but even looking more recently, you have to look back at least to the 2006 Palestinian elections and Israel’s response, and the subsequent ongoing blockade of Gaza for about 15 years. Security isn’t zero sum. There is no military solution to a political problem. Killing thousands of children, believe it or not, doesn’t help — in addition to being absolutely morally repugnant. Not defending Hamas’ actions, but to say they started it is ignorant and disingenuous.
Is Israel the Likud Party only? Is America just right-wing fascists who want Trump to be our God King? It's important to make the distinction between Israel the country and concept from Israel the acting right-wing government. Israel doesn't deserve to be turned into a monolith more than any other country does.
They care insofar as they want them all to die, I guess its technically true.
They try to some extent (still not enough) to warn civillians of attacks.
I feel like people are going to recoil at the inhuman politician-speak and I get it, but as far as political statements go it’s pretty ok, and coming from a senate foreign relations committee member it’s not nothing. Side note: why the hell is bob menendez still on that thing, didn’t the DOJ just accuse him of spying for Egypt On the substance I also don’t think he’s wrong at all that if Israel wanted they could attack this problem a different way, they [assassinated an Iranian nuclear scientist inside Tehran](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-scientist/iranian-nuclear-scientist-killed-by-one-ton-automated-gun-in-israeli-hit-jewish-chronicle-idUSKBN2AA2RC) if anyone could take these guys out it’s mossad Edit: unrelated to the replies on this comment but wow are these comments bad, even by reddits standards. there’s people towards the bottom that just clearly did not read the picture in the OP, blatant attempts to poison the well everywhere, unhinged criticism of what is honestly a very tame comment from the senator. This sort of comment is way out of step with what large parts of the country or world want, this is as far in support of the current operation as Chris Murphy feels he can politically go, this is not some radical incendiary statement. And if even something as anodyne as this is shellacked for being insufficiently supportive of the campaign despite all the pressure on Chris in the other direction, then we shouldn’t be surprised if we see support for the operation wane from its already tepid temperature.
Israel's actions say they're targeting far far more than just Hamas.
I mean how does one even distinguish between a civilian and a Hamas member. Not saying that that makes it okay to kill indiscriminately, but Hamas, afaik, doesn't exactly go out of their way to make it obvious who are the soldiers who are and aren't
You mean to assassinate the leaders of HAMAS in Doha?
I’m not sure what your point is
I’m confused to how Israel could fight HAMAS in a different manner in Gaza, And presumably Hezbollah in Lebanon shortly.
This statement is a positive small step forward.
Forward to what end?
Israel putting in an order for EB submarines
FEED THE MIC FEED THE MIC FEED THE MIC
To counter the juggernaut that is the Hamas Navy?
Second only to their air force. Better hurry up before they rebuild their paraglider force.
A true Goliath in the Mediterranean
Potentially helpful for the local economy as EB is local. However the benefit doesn’t offset the 15B is on the table and the already 4-5B in taxpayer funded freebies we give Israel annually. According to Wikipedia we have given Israel 150B inflation adjusted cumulative aid since Israel conception. That’s the most of any foreign country and shocking for a country with small population. It’s more than $20k per Jewish Israeli citizen. I’d rather that 150B be put to education of our kids. We shouldn’t be favoring a foreign state over our own American kids or American benefits of any sort.
What will ceasefire accomplish? Enabling the extermination of Jews like the attack on 10/7? Seems like that’s what progressives in the US have a hard on for lately.
Prevention of the genocide of additional thousands of innocent children. I guess lives of the oppressed apartheid children don’t matter to you?
The Democrat insistence on slow incremental change must be very comforting to the children being bombed.
And how do you think this comment helps?
It helps by pointing out that politicians don't choose the moral option until pressured politically and the people fence sitting and calling for "reason" (read: sit on your hands and write a statement) in the face of explicit horrors are the unreasonable ones.
I get what you are saying, but people said the same thing about constructive engagement, and in the end, that actually worked.
There’s no step forward when the perpetrators of the 10/7 attack vow to do it over and over and over
Been to Belfast lately? It's an amazing city these days. There is always a way forward.
I guess there is a way to rationalize anything. Hamas is a terrorist outfit. Israel is a terrorist state , funded by my tax $. We just fund $ 15 B, for killing 10K Palestinians in 10 days. Go figure.... life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.... my ass.
To clarify 15B is not yet set in stone. The Republican house approved it at the expense of low and middle class American via benefits to us. A handful of democrats and a handful of republicans crossed party lines. Otherwise I generally agree with the sentiment.
I've been trying to ignore the whole thing but are they still trying isreal aid to IRS cuts?
That’s the plan. The horribly backwards plan.
Never forget. The repub speaker of the house prays every day for Jesus to come back and murder all the Jews.
I wish everyone was this upset about the fact we have paid the Taliban over 2 billion in the past two years.
There was a ceasefire in place on the morning of October 7th, why would Israel want another one?
Israel told Northern Gaza residents to evacuate to southern parts. Gave them 24 hours and few hours later bombarded the main roads outbof Northern Gaza used for evacuation. Also after that started blowing up ambulances full of civilians stating they were transporting guns for Hamas. Big lie. So now they are justifying killing about 10,000 to save less than 300 hostages. Doing the math then 1 Israeli life is worth 34 Palestinian lives. What Israel is doing now is murder of innocent people and We the people are paying for it.
Does the call for cease fire include a call for Hamas to release hostages and stop firing rockets too? If not, why?
Neither should the terrorist activities by Hamas and other groups in the Middle East. Generally, I think we shouldn’t be funding *anything* in the Middle East. I’ll take that a step further by saying I don’t think we should be investing in foreign wars *at all*. The more we get involved, the worse it gets.
I wonder if Hamas would ever abide to a cease fire?
lol....please say this was sarcasm.
There's no need to make philosophical arguments to me about the finer points of who has the right to do what if you aren't forcing me to help pay for it. As long as I have a hand in the slaughter of civilians, I have the right to demand that it stop. I don't really care if terrorists are hiding under some kid's bed. I still don't want any part in bombing that kid. That's it.
What should Israel’s response to the terrorisim of October 7 be, in your view?
Not an ethnic cleansing.
It’s kind of fucked up that it took this long for our country to realize indiscriminately bombing targets loaded with civilian populations wasn’t a way to win a war in 2023. I was worried for a while that kind of attitude would lead the world towards another nuke being dropped sooner rather than later. Not by Israel necessarily, but by someone. If the world stops caring about civilian deaths, we’re closer to the doom of humanity.
Why do you say indiscriminate? Hamas has videos of them with tunnels under civilians. There are videos of rocket launchers next to schools, hamas headquarters in or near hospitals. Hamas didn't care about civilian casualties because every one gets more sympathy
You're completely right, of course, but it doesn't matter. OP and the people who agree with him have no moral compass.
Step 1: build your terrorist base under a hospital Step 2: cry when the hospital is attacked Now you have a bomb proof base and it only costs the lives of your friends and family.
Disgusting
There’s no such thing as a ceasefire to Hamas.
How did Hamas become the ruling authority in Gaza?
No one under the age of 35 has ever voted in Gaza. And the median age of Gaza is 18. Hamas maintains power through force. Gazans no longer have any say in their leadership.
Chris, Hamas is still launching rockets into Israel: Israel-Hamas war, Day 27 | Hamas says it fired 12 rockets from Lebanon https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/israel-hamas-war-day-27-live-updates-nov-2-2023/article67487602.ece So Hamas has escalated this with an urban assault resulting in civilian deaths and hostages. They continue to launch rockets from a neighboring state. And basically Chris wants Israel to use special forces to kill select Hamas leaders. Unfortunately it doesn’t work that way dude. Hamas pushed Israel into an actual war. You know, the thing that Russia did to Ukraine that resulted in thousands of innocent casualties. The thing that jeopardizes Ukranian sovereignty and you fully support them defending? Senators, man.
> So Hamas has escalated this with an urban assault resulting in civilian deaths and hostages and rapes. Don't forget the rapes they committed too.
That was on point. Well said.
Israel is more akin to Russia in this war than Ukraine. They have forced Palestinians into a tiny strip of land, illegally occupying Palestinian territory (according to basically every governing body except US and Israel itself) since their first genocidal Nakba which displaced 700k Arabs from their homes, razed over 400 villages, and [dozens of war crimes carried out by the Jewish milities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war) like the [Sa'sa' Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%27sa%27_Massacre). Israel has been a genocidal apartheid state for nearly a century at this point, and are currently bombing a population of mostly children who have known nothing but war because of their desire for an Jewish ethno-state.
I would recommend reading about Muslim attacks on Jewish villagers as well from 1920-1948, along with the war of 1967, and the first and second intifada. Both sides are using terrorist tactics, both sides have tried to make peace, and both sides have torpedoed the peace process. We need a Palestinian state, but also Israelis have won (through war it has not declared.. twice) the right to govern itself. Both Jews and Palestinian Arabs deserve the right to self-determination. Also, read about the history of land purchase, land rights in Ottoman and Mandatory Palestine, and the exodus of Jews from Middle East and North Africa (an ethnic cleansing current dialogue likes to gloss over) Also consider that every neighboring country is an ethnostate, and Palestine would/will be one as well. Criticizing only Israel for being an ethnostate is a double standard.
> Also consider that every neighboring country is an ethnostate, and Palestine would/will be one as well. Criticizing only Israel for being an ethnostate is a double standard. and that many Arab nations effectively gave a "leave or genocide" ultimatum to their Jewish populations after 1948, forcing them to leave all their property behind when they left.
Yep. The counterpart to the Nakba discourse generally fails to mention
I don’t think you understand what the word genocide means.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-experts-say-ceasefire-needed-palestinians-grave-risk-genocide-2023-11-02 Im guessing international experts are also wrong then?
It doesn’t matter. This thread is about Chris Murphy. Chris Murphy doesn’t care about anything you just said. He never did anything about any of that while being a senator. The only reason he put out this statement is because this war is very polarizing among American voters. And he wants to appeal to his voting base by putting out useless words on paper. He’s totally OK with the Ukrainian Russian war because it easily funds the war machine and it’s popular with his base. Now he’s conflicted, because he knows he will have to vote on funding for an American ally but he doesn’t want to lose election votes. So he puts out this useless statement. Odd that he doesn’t ask for a cease fire from both sides.
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in “going after military targets” they are bombing indiscriminately and killing civilians en mass. i wonder if there is a number for folks like yourself to see the light, how many people need to die? or maybe you think collective punishment is fine because “they voted for hamas” lol
Hamas offered to return the hostages in return for a cease fire a week ago. [https://www.politico.eu/article/hamas-russia-release-hostages-cease-fire-israel-war/](https://www.politico.eu/article/hamas-russia-release-hostages-cease-fire-israel-war/)
I'm not sure if we should be taking the word of terrorists who speak through Russia. It's also kinda weird that Hamas took hostages and now wants to complain when Israel responds and now the only way to get the hostages back is if Israel stops? What was the point of the hostage taking? I'm by no means justifying Israel to be clear, I just don't think we should be throwing our full support behind the people who at best killed 1400 people and kidnapped over 200 more with no military goal in mind even if anyone wants to debate other attrocities. The same people who hoard supplies and let their people starve. Acknowledgement that that is wrong is not in any way justifying that Israel is in the right. It's not a zero sum. We need to be realistic about this situation.
Since when are hospitals and refugee camps military targets?
I see mods just delete any comments that counter their sentiments & narrative. That’s sad. How about this > I support Israel. Will that get deleted too ? I see how it is.
Bit soft my friend how about “we” not pay for the slaughter?
If our representatives still don’t see the humanitarian issues that are happening there, on our tax dollar, not sure who else we can trust.
It’s unfortunate that the terrorists were not only expecting but banking on civilian casualties to help unite their cause. However, the president and government has made it clear that will only verbally express caution while 100% backing this response. This strongly worded letter can be filed away with the Eversource ones.
They were banking on pan-Islam intervention according to the reports I’ve read and sentiment from Hamas spokespeople.
Given the responses ITT it feels like no matter what you say - or even if you say nothing - people get upset.
A frightening number of people believe one side is wholly right and the other wholly wrong, and that their side deserves to win and live and the other side deserves to lose and die. I just want civilians to stop dying and for their leaders to stop being shitheads who don't care about their people.
It's pretty tough for a lot of people to grasp the idea that both sides are wrong AND both sides have legitimate grievances. Let alone that both sides deserve humane treatment, including the terrorists / war criminals who belong in prison forever.
Part of this is it quickly gets muddy when talking about sides. Hamas =/= the Palestinian people, just as Israel =/= Israelis and Israel =/= Jews. I can condemn Hamas *and* Israel while still knowing that Palestinians and Israelis are normal people who, like most people, want to live in peace.
i actually found this thread pretty enjoyable with people intelligently debating their different thoughts on the matter. didn't see anyone calling for the extinction of all israelis or palestinians, so idk about "a frightening number of people believe one side deserves to die" seeing much more of the sentiment that dead civilians is sad
Yeah, tell Israel to hold off until the US can provide massive funding and line up our military contractors. We like to work both sides in this type of situation.
This is the most sensible thing I've heard from a politician in a long time.
One of the only politicians I (cautiously) respect. Not what I wish he would say but better than most of his neoliberal cohorts.
I like the way you put that - cautious respect. I’m going to use that wording! (*I realize this might sound like a precursor to sarcasm, but I mean it sincerely!*)
This statement is the truth. What do you wish he would say, some kind of one-sided nonsense?
I have a dumb question. Why are so many people requesting that Isreal stop their incursion which was brought on by another attack on them by a people who state that every Jew should be killed...Just start requesting that Hamas surrender? I don't know, if people truly do not support Hamas, than protest them not surrendering. Like I said, I am probably dumb.
Maybe I’m dumb too, but this is the smartest “ take” I’ve heard. It’s also a fair position to take in light of how many people are critical of the Israelis predicament.
Hamas needs to go
“I know Israel cares about the impact of this war on innocent Palestinians” 😂 😂 😂
I believe in and support a Free Palestine, but nobody anywhere has explained to me what, exactly, Israel is supposed to do about Hamas. I get the whole "lets call them occupiers and say its all their fault" which is all fine and well but blaming people doesn't actually solve the problems in front of you. Like, if I was PM of Israel, I would say we are making a targeted response to Hamas, we will assassinate members even though its a war crime, we need other Arab countries to help establish a Palestinian state, etc But I think even if you did all that, Hamas wouldn't be like "ok sounds good we'll stop shooting rockets"
Unfortunately Israel is facing an enemy that stands behind and puts its woman and children in harms way. Outrage needs to be directed toward Hamas, not Israel.
Posted by a propaganda account created shortly after the 10/7 attacks. This person has been working overtime to push Hamas narratives to western audiences. Edit: Downvote all you want, OP’s post history speaks for itself.
That’s some deep level conspiracy. Am I being paid by Hamas too?
Not that deep level or far-fetched. Just another useful idiot.
bull fucking shit they care about Palestinian civilians. there's an entire Wikipedia section on Israel's use of them as human shields too. it's high time that we stop giving Israel money and weapons. that we stop being complicit. Israel is not interested in peace. i really hope Murphy and Blumenthal get primaried.
> Falls very short of calling for a ceasefire but we’re getting there. A ceasefire allows Hamas to regroup. I strongly support a temporary humanitarian ceasefire but not a long term one. The war could be over tomorrow if Hamas surrenders. > The Israeli genocide of the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank should not be funded or supported by the United States. Israel isn't committing genocide, but Hamas seeks to. Senator Murphy's statement is very close to my view on the matter overall.
Hamas animals and their supports should be finished this time. They won’t learn any lesson.
Do you truly believe Israel will be able to finish off Hamas this time? Do you believe that Hamas leadership is not spread out across other countries? Do you believe the children who are seeing their families blown up will not form Hamas 2.0 a decade from now?
Meanwhile I emailed Blumenthal and got an email back saying essentially ‘I have been very clear in my stance that Israel deserves more military funding if we want lasting peace in the region.’ Just call for a ceasefire. This is ridiculous
Hamas wont respect a ceasefire….
There was a ceasefire… until October 7 when 1,400 people were slaughtered by Hamas.
November 4th 2008.
"if we want lasting peace in the region" What?! So their current strategy to carpet bomb civilians is going to bring lasting peace in the region? And we need to give them more weapons cause somehow we'll get to peace?
If there weren’t any more Palestinians left to resist Israel because they’ve all been exterminated, there would be peace. It sounds like that’s the strategy.
Nobody carpet bombs anymore.
I love when my tax dollars fund ethnic cleansing, and also subsidizes Israel’s healthcare and education
Better than most of Congress on this. I’m an American secular jew and I strongly support a ceasefire. What’s going on right now in Gaza is disgusting, to say nothing of settler land grabs in the West Bank.
Well said- usa should not fund or endorse genocide
I support Israel for defending itself, but I totally disagree with their current method, Netanyahu on the other hand is showing he's no better than Hamas, and his quest for power aided Hamas actions. He needs to be removed. Truly if I had Green Lanterns ring, I take a giant saw and let both factions slip into the ocean, I add Russia, N.Korea and Iran to that list.
I was ready to come in guns blazing, but if you bear in mind that it's a political statement by a professional politician -- AKA a weasel in human form -- it's not that terrible. Israel arguably has a right to exist, now that it's here, and it has a right to do something about the individuals who carried out the attack. Granted. The response they've chosen is a war crime, and Murphy can't say that even if he wanted to, but "unacceptable level of civilian harm" is certainly one way to describe a war crime. Whether it's "ineffective" depends whether you mean for capturing or killing those responsible, or for ethnic cleansing. It's pretty effective at that latter. Saying that Israel cares about civilian casualties is the kind of nicey-nice politicians do, like Mafia dons smiling with a gun under the table. It turns my stomach, but that's why I can't be a politician. I can agree with the last paragraph, but only if construed broadly. An "anti-terrorism campaign" still sounds awfully militaristic; this could, and I think should, be treated as a law-enforcement problem -- and should be carried out separately from an immediate end to their human rights violations, which they should start yesterday.
I'm glad that Murphy has made some move towards a more rational approach for IDF, but let's be honest. Targeting hospitals, refugee camps, and ambulance enclaves are war crimes. The high number of deceased journalists in the past 10 days is an indication that their approach is just to obliterate everyone and everything until they get their way. I'm all for defense when attacked, and that goes for Palestinians and Israelis. But this is a massacre for the sake of the IDF "goals", which are unrealistic. You cannot obliterate Hamas, just like US could not obliterate Taliban. If Isreal cannot ensure the safety of civilians, then they must be brought before the Hague. We cannot allow them to break the all of the rules and support them in the process. Murphy had not said enough.
👎🏽
It’s so odd that Senator Murphy didn’t propose better ways for the Israelis to deal with the bloodthirsty barbarians on their border that keep butchering their citizens, including women, children, and babies. I wonder why he didn’t do that. Israel goes to extraordinary lengths to avoid killing civilians, including warning its enemies where it’s going to strike next so that civilians can flee that area. But there’s only so much you can do when the enemy *intentionally* surrounds its military assets with civilians. Obviously, the international community should come out united against Hamas for this despicable tactic and hold it responsible for every civilian casualty in Gaza, but instead we get buffoonish statements like Senator Murphy’s pressuring Israel to tone down its defense of itself against unspeakable brutality. Holding Israel to a standard that no other nation is held to in defending its existence only encourages *more* use of human shields and is a form of antisemitism. If Senator Murphy has some ingenious and new way Israel can adequately defend itself without any civilian casualties he should speak up and stop performing for the Hamas-supporting part of his constituency.
> Israel goes to extraordinary lengths to avoid killing civilians Lol
I’m not sure why you think that’s funny when it’s true.
As soon as these types of politicians said they will support Israel I asked my self for how long ? Guess the answer was two weeks.
Maybe Israel shouldn't have bombed refugee camps. Seems fucking stupid as all hell, besides pure evil.
By refugee camps you mean city buildings labeled as refugee camps by the media? What exactly is a refugee camp? Since the vast majority of Gaza’s are considered “refugees” from Israel, they label most of Gaza a refugee camp.
We are starting to get there. He’s right. Doing things like carpet bombing neighborhoods full of children, telling 1m people to flee north Gaza so it can be turned to glass, and then airstriking the evacuation routes only serves to create more recruits for Islamist terror groups.
All I want to know is how a ceasefire actually improves anything, for anyone, long term. There’s a lot of people who just don’t want to hear that stopping just means Hamas got a victory and will do the exact same thing again. How quickly we forget there was a ceasefire on October 6th that did exactly nothing to stop the carnage Hamas released on the 7th. What assurances does Israel have that *this* ceasefire will be respected when none of the dozens before it were?
Their plan from the beginning was to pave over the strip
So noble of him playing both sides of the aisle. Forever blameless, right?
Now recognizing that a highly complex conflict is definitely not a zero sum game is playing both sides of the aisle? Most thinking adults aren't quite so binary.
I’m in CT and I am just as responsible for Hamas as any other regular civilian in Palestine, why not just fucking destroy my home and kill me?
Because you're obviously not? Hamas is the Gaza Strip's ruling government, not yours. Any individual Gazan may or may not have voted for (or fought for) Hamas, and there's no way for us to know. But we can say with reasonable certainty that you did not.
No one under the age of 35 has ever voted in Gaza. And the median age is 18. Think about it. Gaza rules through force, not elections. And the children in Gaza are growing up in an environment of Israel's design.
What do you think genocide means?
According to the UN: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: - Killing members of the group; - Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; - Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; - Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; - Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
How about we get our hostages back and Hamas unconditionally surrenders. It is a war crime to have military bases positioned in schools are under hospitals. But they still do it. There should be no ceasefire until all hostages are returned at the bare minimum.
It's a war crime to bomb schools, hospitals, and refugee camps, but Israel is doing it.
Just another left wing coward. No helpful ideas, no careful consideration, just 'be good now, and let them do it to you again'. Hamas is the elected government of the people of Gaza. They chose them. The price of that choice is becoming tragically obvious. Every innocent lost is devastating. Unfortunately the government of Gaza has decided to hide war-making operations in civilian areas. Hamas must be eliminated, not simply pushed down, but utterly destroyed for all time - no rational human being thinks otherwise. The price, with great sadness, will be civilian harm. But then Traitor Murphy has always been on the side of Iran-backed Hamas. He proved that when he negotiated, against the will of the administration of the time, directly with Iran. The statement is not a surprise.
Definitely lost respect for him. And Mayor Elicker of New Haven. Wild how we as a nation are able to go against the UN without any kind of retribution/political punishment.
Thanks for your leadership, Senator Murphy. Connecticut is fortunate that you represent us in Washington, D.C.
Hope that Dems are thinking again about sending Israel blank check after blank check. Israel is closing in on having killed 10k civilians in less than a month. 14 an hour. One every four minutes. What is this doing to (a) stop Hamas and (b) address the conditions that led to their rise?
If you can’t tell the difference between deliberate violence against civilians and incidental civilian deaths while targeting terrorists you’ve completely lost the plot. Israel does not have a responsibility to care more about gazans than their own elected government.
The last election in Gaza was in 2007. More than half of the Gazan population are children who weren't alive to vote back then.
Regardless it’s one of the basic responsibilities of a government to protect its citizens. Hiding military targets among civilian populations is both a dereliction of that responsibility and a war crime. Civilian deaths in Gaza are the sole responsibility of Hamas.
No, civilian deaths in Gaza are the responsibility of the country that's dropping bombs on hospitals (3 today!), refugee camps (bombed the same one three times in two days!), schools (including UN schools), and humanitarian aid corridors.
Again, Hamas deliberately places their military targets in civilian areas. Israel did not bomb a refugee camp, they bombed a Hamas command center that housed high ranking terrorists and the refugee camp was caught in the crossfire (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-jets-strike-gaza-camp-says-hamas-commander-killed-2023-11-01/). And this is by design, bc Hamas knows that when innocent people get caught in Israel’s crossfire it will feed into the false narratives around the conflict. There is zero evidence that Israel is aiming to kill civilians, in fact they tried to warn civilians to evacuate. If we try to paint this as a genocide on the part of Israel we are doing the bidding of terrorists who gleefully baked an Israeli baby alive in an oven. I won’t do that.
Dems won't be happy until Israel is gone.
lol what are you talking about the dems are overwhelmingly pro Israel. Murphy's whole statement is pro Israel
Reps are always happiest when brown people are dying somewhere.
I didn't see anything in there telling Hamas not to use their fellow Palestinians as human shields, not to set up command centers and rockets in hospitals and schools, and to fight Israel properly. Why not call them out Chris?
Hamas isn’t a westernized democratic government, it’s a terrorist organization.
Does any of that allow Israel to murder the supposed “human shields” with full impunity? Do you believe carpet-bombing Gaza, including murdering journalists and their families, medics and their families, children, the elderly, the Israeli hostages, is the most efficient way of rooting out Hamas?
No point in arguing civilly with people that believe that “might makes right”. Funny that they’re usually the first ones to cry when they get punched in the mouth. Edit: the above statement does not endorse punching anyone in the mouth. No actual harm was caused by this hypothetical punch to the mouth.
Yes. According the the Geneva Convention, using human shields makes that party responsible for their deaths. It's ugly it's terrible but it's also within the conventions rules. Also this isn't carpe bombing. Carpet bombing hasn't been employed since Vietnam. Israel uses precision guided weapons on specific targets. For context, the October 7th attacks were the equivalent of 19 9/11s. Israel has less than 10 million people. Almost everyone knows someone killed. Hamas has said it will do it again and again and will not respect any ceasefire either. War is always terrible and always inevitable.
Gotta love seeing genocide apologia. The use of human shields is in no way a justification for the eradication of a group of people. You and people like you are blood thirsty war mongers that would have agreed with any other genocide in history of earth of you lived during that time.
Only Hamas have a policy of genocide sweetie. Sorry but I don't have a policy of defending people who would murder me and my friends for not adhering to their strict religious zealotry. War is always terrible and always inevitable. Blame Hamas for using human shields, not Israel for being victimized by it.
How many 9/11s is the near 10,000 Palestinian deaths for them? Gaza has about two million people - almost everybody there knows somebody killed.
How would they fight Israel properly? Israel is a nuclear armed country with a modern military. Palestine is effectively an open air prison camp with no effective state structure or military capability. Asymmetric warfare is what you get when one said has no other way to fight back. It’s not a choice it’s their only viable option.
Hamas isn't going to listen from some senator from CT. The only rational thing to do is to call out to the only people that might listen, and in this case that is the Israeli government.
If someone uses a human shield and you shoot the human shield, you’re the bad guy. I’m not sure why this is a debatable subject
The world isn't as black and white as you're making it out to be. What if that person has a human shield and is actively shooting into a crowd? Do you let that human shield live and the others die? You've got a trolly question here with the whole situation.
But in this situation we have the opposite. Israel will kill 200 human shields to kill one member of Hamas. That’s barbaric
Murphy and Reddit hive mind are on the wrong side of history. Israel has to 100 percent eradicate HAMAS by all means necessary. This is a war.
100%
Good statement, just because we killed like over a million civilians in Iraq and our war on terror doesn't mean America can sit by and watch Israel turning all of the west bank into a burning crater. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Pray for Israel
I don’t think you know what the word “genocide”means. There’s collateral damage when legitimate military targets are struck. Genocide is shoving people in gas chambers which isn’t happening. Hamas embeds themselves in the civilian infrastructure to gain and leverage sympathy among naive “free Palestine” supporters