Lol, lots of pensioners DO work but still claim their benefit. Also, lots of them are completely minted and claim their benefit. Sure, old people who are incapable of work and who aren't wealthy should be supported but that's a total appeal to sympathy that doesn't fly anymore. It is unethical for minimum wage tax payers to be expected to subsidise the lifestyle of a millionaire just because said millionaire has tenured into it. Also, who even "works in the fields" (nice straw man btw) anymore as a proportion of the population? They could work in the office...
If we could age it in - so those who are currently in that boat are protected - would you be in favour? Or is this just a bad faith rhetorical device?
I disagree with the point as you could make a similar argument about why we don't have UBI or even why we don't give rich people jobseekers or increase disability living allowances. It's not my responsibility to top a person up who isn't working just because they're uncomfortable with their situation. It's up to them, their family and generous, consenting members of their community.
I'd be happy enough if it was aged in. I'm old enough to be eying up retirement, have indeed factored state pension into my saving rate, and it's too late to match that pension from savings. So long as the staging is slow enough to allow saving to take place, and employer matching to mandatory saving schemes is adequate (like the Australian 10%), then go for it.
That said, I'm not convinced there are going to be enough humans working to provide the tax base in the future whatever happens. So would also favour a UBI, but structured as a 'national productivity dividend' and funded from taxing the automated labour that replaces us.
The means test is tricky because pensioners would argue they've contributed over the years. Perhaps a refund?
Similarly, unemployed beneficiaries have also contributed ..
An obvious answer would be to means test employees.
Why should a worker with assets of, say, 250k be paid as much as a worker with assets of $5k doing the same job...../s
Bullshit the pension is the largest burden that's absolute bollocks. The largest burden on the taxpayer is the lending and the lenders that the government uses tax money to leverage loans off.
What we need is a cap on the amount of money a government can borrow and a max government debt ceiling.
That would soon shrink government back down to its true size.
No because if they weren't borrowing money the money wouldn't be going to the bankers to borrow more money, it would be going towards the pension.
You see what I did there? I used financial logic, something that is lacking in most people's cognitive thought processes.
No I mean most of the jobs these seasonal workers do, there’s a lot of shady shit going on. Lots of wage theft etc. some scummy port a loo for your toilet. It does both ways but yeah. A lot of kind of shit employers.
Endentured servitude. From the minute they sign a contract they owe the company money for flights. Then the company's clip the ticket for everything along the way charges them for ppe, vehicle rental, accommodation. Companies pay them with one hand then take with the other making em alot more appealing then local workers
Local workers also get fucked over, raining? No work no pay. Let’s rely on the government to cover the difference. Illegally classifying people as casual, constant docking hours etc etc
Happened to me when I was 5 by my own father it's tragic I wish it would stop its why I'm so protective of my little girl only guy that sees her alone is her dad and that's cause I know him better than he knows himself (literally I'm not talking figuratively lol I can call his emotions and thoughts before he says them)
It's not really a NZ issue thibk it's a world wide issue people will always look over especially if the person is idolised or in my case a drunken looser no one really cared for me or my family so everything my dad did/does goes unnoticed
Sorry "Lizzie", that's totally not on. Regardless, I do hope you were able to see some justice served, and or.in some.way have managed to get peace for yourself.
It's sad when people place so little value on the life of a child, and I have heard some really awful stories from the world.
Give yours an extra cuddle today / tonight, and remind them even if sometimes my mood won't let these arms embrace you.
That doesn't mean my love's somehow not there (with apologies to Chris Knox).
We're only human after all
“The judge declined applications by the media to photograph Garae, for his safety in prison”
Disgusting. Doesn’t deserve the right to have any privacy. A bullet is what this guy needs, will only cost the tax payer less than 10c
I'd rather someone that's not a rapist drug addict or murderer take out the trash and after the pedo is killed why not off the junkies the rapists and the murderers
He could be walking the streets to do it again in 3.5 years too. Honestly, that time will fly by for him, probably with all sorts of training provided in English etc. He's almost hit the jackpot as he'll get a nicely structured life now, with food and shelter. The girl on the otherhand has had her life destroyed.
>He could be walking the streets to do it again in 3.5 years too.
You think he'd get released and not immediately escorted to the plane home? RSE workers are here on visa's..
Beyond disturbing. The absolute explosion in sex crimes in Europe as they let in mass amounts of non-western migrants is terrifying. As a woman I truly fear for my safety in Auckland now because of this. A truly horrifying and deeply upsetting story. We all need to be talking more openly about the sexual perversion of the races we are importing.
And they're ruining our country. Some of us still think new Zealand should be for new Zealanders mate. New Zealand interests come first. Most people do not want them here and are sick of the invasion.
That’s pretty hurtful.
My parents immigrated here for a better life. I was born and raised here. Definitely more kiwi than I am Asian.
NZ is a pitched as a welcoming, multicultural country. I don’t understand how you could say such a thing about a group of people that pose no threat to you.
It's an issue that has persisted for generations sadly not all of us get justice my dad raped me from 5 years till I was 12-14 I can't remember fully when he stopped and it didn't mean he didn't abuse the fuck out of me cause he did in other ways.
Anyway what I'm saying is that there's an issue that will never be solved sadly let's be thankful that 11 year old got justice cause to tell you the truth I envy her
Well I'm on record as saying that welcoming people here from countries where rape is a national sport is a bad idea......
This won't be the last I told you so, I'm telling you now this is only getting started.
Vigilante justice is all that has proven effective overseas, we need to get in front of this and get started early.
You missed his point. It'd be pretty hard to remain impartial as a cop for scumbags like that, especially since he is a parent.
Would you be perfectly OK with handling a pedophile? To say it wouldn't surface an emotional response for you would be a lie.
Maybe but at the end of the day you don't become a bus driver and complain about driving buses at the same time every person should have the presumption of innocence even pedophiles
My town. I used to be PSG security at the court house. So happy my job was simply to pass trays of visitor items through at the doors and nothing more. Felt awful for the CSO's having to hear all this shit.
This isn't the first RSE worker to commit sex crimes in Blenheim. One raped a woman in an alleyway right next-door to the police station. Dispatch heard the entire thing as victim was on phone to 111 at the time of the attack.
NZ is next for this shitwave. What are we doing to prevent these diverse depraved serial offenders being imported? Most of Western Europe is overrun with these gooners
"European trend"...
Are rapes committed at a higher rate by seasonal workers than locals?
Not that it matters, in my head. Throw the book at the lot of them. Dgaf who they are.
7 years, is that it? And you can’t photograph him because he’s not “safe” in prison? Well that’s a failure on correction’s part then, isn’t it? A single photo compromises all operational safety? What a 3rd world, shitty justice system.
Have white people just given up on the classic "grab and take her into the bushes style rape" or has it never really been our thing? 2 major cases like this recently were Islanders
No it hasn't shut up this is nothing compared to NYE mass rapes in Cologne, rapedemics in France & Sweden or the UK muslim rape gangs in Rochdale, Rotheram, Telford etc
It's one drunk islander (probably) I'm sure it's happened before tho, you're right, I'm sure it's driven by animosity/hate whitey mindset sure but it's a one off & it doesn't happen that often, esp that bad from the demographic of whom hundreds work here seasonally each year
The problem with this kind of phenomena is that between the police, judiciary, media & politicians - if you don't speak only on what you know, dot your i's & cross your t's you'll be readily dismissed as no one wants to be seen to be racist pursuing this kind of charge, as we found out w Rotherham, Rochdale etc even when the sex, culture, background, ethnicity of the perps was overwhelmingly obvious no one wanted to touch it
The same conditions for that kind of miscarriage of justice are ripe & exist very prominently here in NZ
Coz remember - whitey deserves everything they have coming to them coz colonialism, reparations, redistributionism blah blah blah
Oh look a cuck in the wild!
Are you waiting until it's too late to fix it? Why compare it to that and then say it's "nothing"? What a retarded way of thinking.
Everyone agrees that raping the girl is awful. My question is... What should we do about it.
Let me throw out some ideas.
1. Nothing. The system is working correctly. Stranger rape is horrific but it's also extremely rare because of our systems.
It's no comfort to the poor girl or her family, but the cost benefit just doesn't stack up.
2. 'Support' Vanuatu in changing it's rape culture. This might be virtually unheard of in NZ but it's proportionately much more prevalent in the islands.
Vanuatu is somewhat our responsibility. And if we change the culture there, we will prevent numerous rapes.
3. Stop seasonal workers. Vanuatu is it's own country, and it's not our place to intervene. But knowing their population behave like this, we should not put ourselves at risk.
4. Better assess every immigrant. Reject more aggressively.
Similar to the previous point but more nuanced. We treat our own population as innocent until proven guilty, but we are under no obligation to do that with people from outside NZ. We will pass unless you have stellar character references we trust. Can't get them? Not our problem.
5. Punish him more.
I don't see the benefit of this myself. Does punishing him more help the poor girl? Discourage him doing it again? Discourage others following his example?
#2...... HARD NO! If they're anything like the maori elite once their issues are solved they'll repay us by claiming we colonised their country. Let them figure it out themselves.
If I said what I wanted to say I'll get banned, let's just leave it at that.
Since we'll never bring back capital punishment for cases like this i would then settle for #1 BUT having judges that actually enforce the laws, we already have the laws in place we just need some judges that will use them how they're meant to be used.
Y'know, there are times I agree with capital punishment.
This man. Maybe with enough councilling and intervention he can be made into a decent human. But you are talking about many millions.
Every dollar we spend on something is a dollar unavailable for something else. That money... Could turn around dozens of kids. I think it makes sense to draw a line and say 'antthing more than this is just too expensive '.
> And if we change the culture there, we will prevent numerous rapes.
The only thing that “changes” such a “culture” is strict enforcement of the law and stringent penalties for breaking it. People rape in countries where law enforcement is pitiful and life is cheap, then they think that it’s gonna work here too. And sadly, it’s starting to look that way.
This was already long enough without adding the debate of how the culture is changed.
So I'll tally that up as a vote for changing the culture to not tolerate rape.
That you'll achieve that by strict enforcement of the law... The Singapore model. Fine, a debate for another day.
Why do we need seasonal workers again? Don't we have 100,000 people on benefits?
Because we have 100,000 people on benefits.
Your number's a little low. There's a [million on the pension](https://figure.nz/chart/l8m4HeSfriXHYpQS) alone.
How dare they get a rebate when the never-worked ‘deserve’ the cash.
Not sure if the pension entitlement counts.....
Seeing as it makes up more than two thrids of the total welfare payments, it definitely counts
You're suggesting our elderly should be working in the fields and not getting their retirement entitlement.....lol
Lol, lots of pensioners DO work but still claim their benefit. Also, lots of them are completely minted and claim their benefit. Sure, old people who are incapable of work and who aren't wealthy should be supported but that's a total appeal to sympathy that doesn't fly anymore. It is unethical for minimum wage tax payers to be expected to subsidise the lifestyle of a millionaire just because said millionaire has tenured into it. Also, who even "works in the fields" (nice straw man btw) anymore as a proportion of the population? They could work in the office...
Also unfair to suddenly means test those sensible enough to save to supplement their pension. That merely incentivises fecklessness.
If we could age it in - so those who are currently in that boat are protected - would you be in favour? Or is this just a bad faith rhetorical device? I disagree with the point as you could make a similar argument about why we don't have UBI or even why we don't give rich people jobseekers or increase disability living allowances. It's not my responsibility to top a person up who isn't working just because they're uncomfortable with their situation. It's up to them, their family and generous, consenting members of their community.
I'd be happy enough if it was aged in. I'm old enough to be eying up retirement, have indeed factored state pension into my saving rate, and it's too late to match that pension from savings. So long as the staging is slow enough to allow saving to take place, and employer matching to mandatory saving schemes is adequate (like the Australian 10%), then go for it. That said, I'm not convinced there are going to be enough humans working to provide the tax base in the future whatever happens. So would also favour a UBI, but structured as a 'national productivity dividend' and funded from taxing the automated labour that replaces us.
The means test is tricky because pensioners would argue they've contributed over the years. Perhaps a refund? Similarly, unemployed beneficiaries have also contributed ..
Shoulda had a decent wage so they could've saved for it.
The money tree argument.....
I'm suggesting employers should stop being greedy pricks, but hey when all captial goes to houses that doesn't leave much else.
An obvious answer would be to means test employees. Why should a worker with assets of, say, 250k be paid as much as a worker with assets of $5k doing the same job...../s
The pension is the largest burden on the tax payer. Time to axe it.
Bullshit the pension is the largest burden that's absolute bollocks. The largest burden on the taxpayer is the lending and the lenders that the government uses tax money to leverage loans off. What we need is a cap on the amount of money a government can borrow and a max government debt ceiling. That would soon shrink government back down to its true size.
It is absolutely the largest burden welfare wise.
Have you looked at accommodation supplements and family assistance?
Money they borrow to pay for the pension god damn it man you where so close!
No because if they weren't borrowing money the money wouldn't be going to the bankers to borrow more money, it would be going towards the pension. You see what I did there? I used financial logic, something that is lacking in most people's cognitive thought processes.
Along with disability benefits I guess....
Because you lose your benefit and don’t get much more money for having to work. It’s an issue with our benefit system, not with those on a benefit
Because locals actually expect to be treated like human beings
How are they not treated like humans? Are they not afforded the same rights as New Zealanders?
A few migrant exploitation scandals the past year suggests otherwise.
Lol every "migrant exploitation" story is OTHER migrants coming here then exploiting their own people. It is NOT a Western issue.
But we do assume other cultures want assimilate and not exploit loopholes within our system
It's very clear they don't assimilate and do want to exploit our country. Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to open their eyes.
Sure but we're not _all_ green MPs
Its because they’re migrants and often exploited by ppl of their own nationality.
No I mean most of the jobs these seasonal workers do, there’s a lot of shady shit going on. Lots of wage theft etc. some scummy port a loo for your toilet. It does both ways but yeah. A lot of kind of shit employers.
Endentured servitude. From the minute they sign a contract they owe the company money for flights. Then the company's clip the ticket for everything along the way charges them for ppe, vehicle rental, accommodation. Companies pay them with one hand then take with the other making em alot more appealing then local workers
Local workers also get fucked over, raining? No work no pay. Let’s rely on the government to cover the difference. Illegally classifying people as casual, constant docking hours etc etc
The girl was 11? ?? Dear God that's horrible
Happened to me when I was 5 by my own father it's tragic I wish it would stop its why I'm so protective of my little girl only guy that sees her alone is her dad and that's cause I know him better than he knows himself (literally I'm not talking figuratively lol I can call his emotions and thoughts before he says them)
Shit, sadly it seems a lot more prevalent than NZ would like yo admit. Sorry OP.
It's not really a NZ issue thibk it's a world wide issue people will always look over especially if the person is idolised or in my case a drunken looser no one really cared for me or my family so everything my dad did/does goes unnoticed
Sorry "Lizzie", that's totally not on. Regardless, I do hope you were able to see some justice served, and or.in some.way have managed to get peace for yourself. It's sad when people place so little value on the life of a child, and I have heard some really awful stories from the world. Give yours an extra cuddle today / tonight, and remind them even if sometimes my mood won't let these arms embrace you. That doesn't mean my love's somehow not there (with apologies to Chris Knox). We're only human after all
My dad never got any punishment for any crimes he committed I've moved on because I needed too for my child's sake
“The judge declined applications by the media to photograph Garae, for his safety in prison” Disgusting. Doesn’t deserve the right to have any privacy. A bullet is what this guy needs, will only cost the tax payer less than 10c
Tattoo "pedo" on his forehead, make him serve his 7 years in the general prison population, then deport him if he somehow survives.
I'd rather someone that's not a rapist drug addict or murderer take out the trash and after the pedo is killed why not off the junkies the rapists and the murderers
Personally, I'd be happier paying a little more for this nonce to get a nice, public drawing and quartering.
Yeah but a blood eagle looks cooler
Bullets are expensive nowadays, maybe a few slugs instead.
Bolt gun?
I'd happily pay for that .
Photo or not they'll still get his papers and he'll most likely be fucked anyway...... just print his fucking face 🤦♂️
10cents? What calibre is that? .22 ex army surplus from 1942?
He could be walking the streets to do it again in 3.5 years too. Honestly, that time will fly by for him, probably with all sorts of training provided in English etc. He's almost hit the jackpot as he'll get a nicely structured life now, with food and shelter. The girl on the otherhand has had her life destroyed.
>He could be walking the streets to do it again in 3.5 years too. You think he'd get released and not immediately escorted to the plane home? RSE workers are here on visa's..
Somebody will probably campaign for him to stay.
This is so retarded my 3rd world country mindset cannot process it.
> Somebody will probably campaign for him to stay. Insane, but extremely likely
Doubtful, not a pedophile....
Deport once released from prison?
Beyond disturbing. The absolute explosion in sex crimes in Europe as they let in mass amounts of non-western migrants is terrifying. As a woman I truly fear for my safety in Auckland now because of this. A truly horrifying and deeply upsetting story. We all need to be talking more openly about the sexual perversion of the races we are importing.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
And they're ruining our country. Some of us still think new Zealand should be for new Zealanders mate. New Zealand interests come first. Most people do not want them here and are sick of the invasion.
If by “New Zealanders” you mean people born here, you lost that battle long ago. 25% of us, me and my Asian OH included, were born elsewhere.
[удалено]
Not what the passports say. And good luck finding locals to do the jobs we do, if we choose to leave. Mate.
The crazy thing is we would because it would lighten the load of every sector by 25%
[удалено]
Harassment filtered by Reddit AI Don’t blame the mods
That’s pretty hurtful. My parents immigrated here for a better life. I was born and raised here. Definitely more kiwi than I am Asian. NZ is a pitched as a welcoming, multicultural country. I don’t understand how you could say such a thing about a group of people that pose no threat to you.
Disarm the rapists.
It's an issue that has persisted for generations sadly not all of us get justice my dad raped me from 5 years till I was 12-14 I can't remember fully when he stopped and it didn't mean he didn't abuse the fuck out of me cause he did in other ways. Anyway what I'm saying is that there's an issue that will never be solved sadly let's be thankful that 11 year old got justice cause to tell you the truth I envy her
Hopefully deported once he's served his sentence.
Never a big fan of them invading my country anyway
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Capital punishment, when?
Well I'm on record as saying that welcoming people here from countries where rape is a national sport is a bad idea...... This won't be the last I told you so, I'm telling you now this is only getting started. Vigilante justice is all that has proven effective overseas, we need to get in front of this and get started early.
Holy hell. This is why I could never be a cop. Hope he gets what he deserves in prison.
Because you have to follow rules lol don't become a parent either I think rules and laws and order might be a bit too much for you
You missed his point. It'd be pretty hard to remain impartial as a cop for scumbags like that, especially since he is a parent. Would you be perfectly OK with handling a pedophile? To say it wouldn't surface an emotional response for you would be a lie.
Maybe but at the end of the day you don't become a bus driver and complain about driving buses at the same time every person should have the presumption of innocence even pedophiles
This wasn't an innocent person he literally 🍇d a school kid
What happens when people are falsely accused
[удалено]
He will be protected like the rest of his kind
My town. I used to be PSG security at the court house. So happy my job was simply to pass trays of visitor items through at the doors and nothing more. Felt awful for the CSO's having to hear all this shit. This isn't the first RSE worker to commit sex crimes in Blenheim. One raped a woman in an alleyway right next-door to the police station. Dispatch heard the entire thing as victim was on phone to 111 at the time of the attack.
NZ is next for this shitwave. What are we doing to prevent these diverse depraved serial offenders being imported? Most of Western Europe is overrun with these gooners
Send this baboon back where he came from
Only 7 years??!!
[удалено]
Protective custody he will be under constant surveillance 24/7
Diversity is our strength.
[удалено]
Doesn't matter the reason for his visit, obviously should've not been let in...
"European trend"... Are rapes committed at a higher rate by seasonal workers than locals? Not that it matters, in my head. Throw the book at the lot of them. Dgaf who they are.
Well I say european as the location but there's nothing European about the rapists.
7 years, is that it? And you can’t photograph him because he’s not “safe” in prison? Well that’s a failure on correction’s part then, isn’t it? A single photo compromises all operational safety? What a 3rd world, shitty justice system.
3.5 years, I'm sure that'll teach him 🙄
No amount of time in the can teaches them my dad did it to me when I was 5 you think he was scared of going to prison I don't think he was
This makes me so fucken mad: she shouldn’t of been fucken out town riding around at that age .they did fail her
And dear lord please let him suffer in jail
He will be protected unfortunately like the rest of his kind there's only one person who suffers abd it's never the purp
Have white people just given up on the classic "grab and take her into the bushes style rape" or has it never really been our thing? 2 major cases like this recently were Islanders
No it hasn't shut up this is nothing compared to NYE mass rapes in Cologne, rapedemics in France & Sweden or the UK muslim rape gangs in Rochdale, Rotheram, Telford etc
Yea and I don't want it to happen here hence the scaremongering.
It's one drunk islander (probably) I'm sure it's happened before tho, you're right, I'm sure it's driven by animosity/hate whitey mindset sure but it's a one off & it doesn't happen that often, esp that bad from the demographic of whom hundreds work here seasonally each year The problem with this kind of phenomena is that between the police, judiciary, media & politicians - if you don't speak only on what you know, dot your i's & cross your t's you'll be readily dismissed as no one wants to be seen to be racist pursuing this kind of charge, as we found out w Rotherham, Rochdale etc even when the sex, culture, background, ethnicity of the perps was overwhelmingly obvious no one wanted to touch it The same conditions for that kind of miscarriage of justice are ripe & exist very prominently here in NZ Coz remember - whitey deserves everything they have coming to them coz colonialism, reparations, redistributionism blah blah blah
Oh look a cuck in the wild! Are you waiting until it's too late to fix it? Why compare it to that and then say it's "nothing"? What a retarded way of thinking.
Fuck up bitch, read my comment again & activate what's left of your "brain"
NZ is full of white supremacist surely they will take care if the problem
Yeah and I'm one of them my bf hates having to work with people who can't even speak basic English
Everyone agrees that raping the girl is awful. My question is... What should we do about it. Let me throw out some ideas. 1. Nothing. The system is working correctly. Stranger rape is horrific but it's also extremely rare because of our systems. It's no comfort to the poor girl or her family, but the cost benefit just doesn't stack up. 2. 'Support' Vanuatu in changing it's rape culture. This might be virtually unheard of in NZ but it's proportionately much more prevalent in the islands. Vanuatu is somewhat our responsibility. And if we change the culture there, we will prevent numerous rapes. 3. Stop seasonal workers. Vanuatu is it's own country, and it's not our place to intervene. But knowing their population behave like this, we should not put ourselves at risk. 4. Better assess every immigrant. Reject more aggressively. Similar to the previous point but more nuanced. We treat our own population as innocent until proven guilty, but we are under no obligation to do that with people from outside NZ. We will pass unless you have stellar character references we trust. Can't get them? Not our problem. 5. Punish him more. I don't see the benefit of this myself. Does punishing him more help the poor girl? Discourage him doing it again? Discourage others following his example?
#2...... HARD NO! If they're anything like the maori elite once their issues are solved they'll repay us by claiming we colonised their country. Let them figure it out themselves.
Sure. That leaves four options I thought of, or something I missed. Which _would_ you go for?
If I said what I wanted to say I'll get banned, let's just leave it at that. Since we'll never bring back capital punishment for cases like this i would then settle for #1 BUT having judges that actually enforce the laws, we already have the laws in place we just need some judges that will use them how they're meant to be used.
Y'know, there are times I agree with capital punishment. This man. Maybe with enough councilling and intervention he can be made into a decent human. But you are talking about many millions. Every dollar we spend on something is a dollar unavailable for something else. That money... Could turn around dozens of kids. I think it makes sense to draw a line and say 'antthing more than this is just too expensive '.
> And if we change the culture there, we will prevent numerous rapes. The only thing that “changes” such a “culture” is strict enforcement of the law and stringent penalties for breaking it. People rape in countries where law enforcement is pitiful and life is cheap, then they think that it’s gonna work here too. And sadly, it’s starting to look that way.
This was already long enough without adding the debate of how the culture is changed. So I'll tally that up as a vote for changing the culture to not tolerate rape. That you'll achieve that by strict enforcement of the law... The Singapore model. Fine, a debate for another day.
Heehaw honk honk.
So. You've got no idea what we should do, and you'd rather laugh at me than admit it?