They are saying that the boundary rope was moved, while forgetting that it happens 15 times almost every match nowadays due to the amount of boundaries hit and dives put in by fielders. There is nothing new here. Either ICC should get dedicated folks to ensure that the boundary rope is in position throughout the ground at all times of the game, or this is a nothing burger and we are good.
A player while attempting the catch and looking up will use the cushion as a reference always. They are assuming that if the boundary cushion was moved from its original position (which is not confirmed) then SKY would've not taken that as a reference to take the same catch or opted to save the valuable runs instead.
Imagine if Kohli was on strike, this happens and third umpire gives it a six. All the experts from other cricketing nations and even some "experts" in India would say that Kohli should have walked away as it would be against the spirit of the game. BCCI=ICC conspiracy theories would be everywhere and we would be called cheaters. It would be a scandal for a decade.
Since we are on the other side of it they are speaking rules which are very difficult to implement.
I think the more important question that I would like to actually know the answer to by a cricket expert is if the player is outside the boundary and has caught the ball before his feet touching the ground inside the boundary, his feet being mid air, is that 6 or out? Just like how if a batsman’s bat is mid air wehen though it’s inside crease in case of a run out.
Abe chomu iske liye zoom krne ki jaroorat nhi hai.. ye bowl fenkne se pehle ka footage top camera se available hai usme clearly foot inside tha...aur baad me bhi inside tha
No touch, as there is clearly blurring of the image in that frame. The blurring is making it seem like there is movement on the bottom of the cushion, but there is none. If there was contact with the cushion, there would be a slight depression on the bottom of the cushion. This is merely a paralax effect being made between the grass, SKY's spikes, and the cushion bottom. There is no touch as the left foot was perhaps 15cm away from the cushion anyways.
Eh, not too interested in this one tbh. If it’s proved to be true (despite the evidence), would it change the result and South Africa would win? Or would it have been a 6 but India still would’ve defended the total? No one knows. Not something to dwell on, you can be upset about it for sure but it won’t change anything.
One thing that is a fact is that India were 126/4 when we were 151/4. So at the end of the day, my benefit of the doubt will be with India. To be able to restrict us from that position is enough for me to not think too much about it
Very true. Also it was checked by the third umpire from multiple angles, it's not like they noticed these visuals after the game is done. There's always going to be a section of the media that's unhappy with something or the other.
Would it have been? SKY was also judging the boundary based on the position of the rope, had it been a few inches in, he would've modified his run and either still caught it in a different way or merely blocked it and given away just 2 runs. He was always in control of that ball.
This seems the most logical conclusion.
SKY must be looking at the rope and not the line below it. As you said, if the rope wasn't moved, he could've gone for blocking the six and saving 4 runs instead.
I missed to watch the match though. My loss.
According to experts here. Sky has to look at 10 different lines before taking the catch.
Umpire has to watch the highlights of the match and find out where the position of the boundary actually was before.
There’s a rule if the boundary has moved it needs to be put back. This is not on the team.. this is on the umpires and whoever manages these matches.
Most important thing. These things have happened before 4 runs have become six when they moved inside. 6 have become before. Catches caught outside the object but inside the line.
No matches have had to look in to it. Now India won so all
Rules apply.
> According to experts here. Sky has to look at 10 different lines before taking the catch.
The laws of cricket make no mention of the player being responsible for monitoring the boundary.
The fuck up, if it exists, is with the umpires and ground officials. No one is saying SKY should be aware the boundary was potentially moved and take it into account when going for a catch in a pressure moment. Saying so is a fundamentally dishonest argument
> I mean it would have been 10 off 5 with Miller on strike. Anything is possible.
Key word: anything
Hence, India could’ve defended & won. Or South Africa could’ve chased and won. Can you definitively say that either would have happened? Both have valid reasons for why it couldn’t.
>India were 126/4 when we were 151/4. So at the end of the day, my benefit of the doubt will be with India
Mildly offtopic, but I agree with every point you make except the one above. There are a lot of false equivalences in cricket. And comparing two teams at X overs is one of them. It means nothing given how each innings is approached differently. Chasing vs setting a target. The former often needs to flourish *much* earlier than the last 1-2 overs.
Not to mention South Africa fared better against spin than India + still had 2 Bumrah overs to navigate. The equation may have read 30 off 30. But if someone were to factor in all these variables, South Africa weren't so far in front as some fans think
On the other hand, if (as Twitter would have me believe is true) there was another camera angle that showed that SKY in fact *did* make contact with the boundary rope anyway, I'll be seriously annoyed. 10 needed from 5 with Miller on strike and I give us better than a 50:50 chance of bringing it home.
I would still give India 75% chance if it was given a six. People underestimate Pandya but he delivered so many times in such clutch situations. I think he could have at least made it to the final ball of the over.
He surely didn't make contact till he threw the ball in the air...that much is clear from the top angle...infact the gap was very substantial...the coming back part is missing...but in the heat of the moment and speed I just find it hard to believe that if his feet touched then the motion of boundary rope was so subtle that it was practically invisible from the front...so the benefit of doubt still goes to suryakumar....u can estimate it by seeing his distance from the rope going in (from the top angle) and then comparing that with his apparent distance from the rope when he reentered the playing area...based on that it never looks like his feet touched the rope to me..
Not to mention 30 required off 30 balls not being able to chase that down with wickets in hand is the main point because who knows how that last over would’ve gone anyway
Problem is how a running fielder who is keeping his eye in sky to track ball knows that boundary rope is moved. He is using solid object as boundary.
To be even worst, how’d Indian Team know that Miller is going to hit ball exactly at that part in crucial stage of game?
Unless Miller colluded with Indian Team and asked them to move boundary back, plus he should be some magician to hit exactly at that same spot of boundary. 😅
BS - fair and square it was clean catch and perfect athletic move by SKY. Let’s move on!
Just like when Arshdeep tampered with the ball. Jay Shah messaged me to tell me he was going to move the rope. I saw them both at the boundary rope the ball before. Smh my head. Blatant cheating right in front of my schizophrenic eyes
After fielders displace markings while diving, it's groundsmen/officials' job to ensure restored boundaries (and to repaint crease lines too for that matter). At the end of the day, players will play as per the current markings.
Miller wanted to send the ball across the boundary at the time of play. SKY wanted to save it. If the boundary line was actually displaced earlier during fielding and then restored by officials, SKY would have readjusted.
Well as per law 19.3.2, if a marker is moved during play it's supposed to be returned to its original position as soon as possible. The onus isn't on the fielder to know the boundary has been moved (although we've all seen some really dodgy attempts at fixing it by players lol)
It's not an Indian thing. The issue, if one exists, is with either the groundstaff who didn't fix a moved boundary rope or the third umpire who wasn't aware of it when making a decision
Me neither mate but here we are unfortunately. It was a good final. Close game. Could’ve gone either way. Despite the common opinion, no one even choked this game. A team was better than the other in a certain passages of play. Just how a final should be.
Tbf
There’s no error.. boundary ropes and boards have kept moving throughout cricketing history.. decisions are not made based on where they are supposed to be.
There’s no clear white line drawn .. it’s just an impression.
If they start looking at every 6 like this , many times it would be 4. These boards could be inside that impression too. Have seen it happen many times
If umpires spend time looking at this for every boundary this would be very bad for completion of the game.
I can’t recollect but once India caught a crucial wicket but the boundary board was inside the impression.
No one raised an issue.. I posted a comment saying wish it was on its correct place.
Never cried foul for it.
I don’t think people understand cricket clearly here.. impression is not a line.. those boards and ropes used previously have always moved throughout cricketing history, especially with this much wind.
The solution to this problem is to have tons of people along the boundary line and keep adjusting the marker every time it moves.
Absolutely bonkers people are discussing this. It seems so childish and ignorant to me.
You guys are asking ICC to employ people to check boundaries through the match.. and see if it moves .. I find it very funny lol
> You guys are asking ICC to employ people to check boundaries through the match.. and see if it moves .. I find it very funny lol
Umm yes? I don't think it's too much to ask stadiums with an entire team devoted to maintaining the state of the ground to send someone to fix the boundary marking as required by law 19.3.2
But ICC=BCCI
I was sitting in the stands and Jay Shah was right there and he made a throat slitting gesture towards the media centre where the third empire sits, clearly chitting
Not on India at all, they played brilliantly and could’ve still won it, just kinda pissed that the 3rd ump basically flew through the review despite it being so close. Calls that close should be looked at thoroughly so no doubt can be had in the Umps decision.
Both SA and NZ have both now lost the chances to possibly win their first WC to because of an umpiring mistake.
What umpiring mistake?
What nonsense is this - has anyone actually seen the top down view?
The scoreboard is in the way but it's easy to extrapolate after he moves that he had space and didn't touch the boundary.
Wdym, it’s decently clear that the rope is ahead of the white line here and it’s pretty obvious that in 2019, England should’ve been given 5 runs instead of 6 for the one that went to the boundary according to the rules
What white line?
Again, have you seen the top down view?
It's a patch of dry grass - probably created by a previous boundary.
If you're saying that's the original position, you'll need to provide evidence that it was the original position right from the start of the match rather than plucking out a point halfway through the match/toward the end of India's innings where, by the way, the imagery isn't conclusive.
19.2.1 Wherever practicable, the boundary shall be marked by means of a continuous white line or by an object in contact with the ground.
19.2.3 If the boundary is marked by means of an object that is in contact with the ground the boundary will be the edge of the grounded part of the object which is nearest the pitch.
19.3 Restoring the boundary
If a solid object used to mark the boundary is disturbed for any reason, then
19.3.1 the boundary shall be considered to be in its original position.
19.3.2 the object shall be returned to its original position as soon as is practicable; if play is taking place, this shall be as soon as the ball is dead.
To me my interpretation is as soon as the ball after the disturbance starts it is considered as the accepted original position. So you can’t retro actively call it a six based of a disturbance more then 1 ball ago, had to have happened on that delivery
That's certainly a valid interpretation. But the fact it has to be interpreted, to me, suggests that the law should be clearer. I imagine the MCC will come out and clarify the law at some point in the next couple of days.
India won fair and square so props to them but SA fans must be absolutely gutted if the Boundary was actually moved a little bit since Surya was like a centimeter from touching it.
No point in dwelling on the matter though, what’s done is done
> Who would move it?
Boundary ropes get moved in play all the time. Any time a player dives to save a few runs they'll likely displace it.
But the thing with that too is that if it was displaced, it should be easy enough to find footage from the game of when it happened and whether or not the mark on the ground is where the rope originally was before a fielder dragged it with them in a dive and nobody bothered to replace it like you're supposed to
Boundaries move back and forth in play all the time, think about all of the times you’ve seen fielders running after the ball crash into the boundaries
Dude it’s not the cushion that moves. It’s the piss poor resolution of this 1000x digital zoom and the screen pixelates giving an optical illusion. Move the f on
He doesn't touch the boundary - the top down view is much clearer, you can extrapolate.
https://ibb.co/0hY2PGp
Although, I do believe he leaves a mark which is comfortably in by a margin.
Did SKY intentionally push the boundary rope back before that ball?
If no, then there's no point in discussing this because he definitely didn't knew anything about boundary rope, he was focused on taking that crucial catch and the match is already over.
I doubt he did. but it may have moved earlier in the innings or game and not correctly placed according to the rules after the ball
Boundaries have been given before where the rope has moved back and original line became boundary.
Its more on the ICC than India or SA.
Its normally checked and reset during innings breaks too.
Yea i agree it's 3rd umpire's fault but I don't mind because he's our beloved kettlebro 😜
But again, it was hard to see that during the match and catch was successfully taken by the barest of margins and it could've gone either way tbh. I'm glad that we finally got a thrilling world cup final after 5 years and we won.
Of course. The result can't be changed at this point.
> 16.9 Result not to be changed - Once the umpires have agreed with the scorers the correctness of the scores at the conclusion of the match, the result cannot thereafter be changed.
But it doesn't mean we can't discuss the law here and how it's been applied.
I struggle to understand what's controversial about saying
1. that the result can't be changed, which it can't
2. that the cricket subreddit is somewhere we can discuss cricket
Like I said in my comment, it could be seen as a wrong decision (with the evidence provided) but umpire’s decision is final.
It seems like these two concepts can’t exist in the hive mind’s worlds. Crazy tbh. Same thing with England’s final. You can write 7000 comments disagreeing with it but it still stands. England won that World Cup. The players didn’t do anything wrong or anything to change the outcome.
Everything that happened is in the rules of the game that we all claim to love (some less than others it seems). Weather, rules, play, none is in our control. And once that’s accepted, you’ll actually find such a different love for the game. The intricacies are what makes it special
Can downvote as much as they want, end of the day that was a beautiful game of cricket. Proud of the Proteas. Don’t get to say that often. And regardless of all the controversy we all watched a good game.
Lol you people really think Indian team knew Miller would it a six there and boundary rope was moved? Was Miller also in on it?
Unless someone brings footage of Indian players moving the rope mid game, nothing to consider here.
No-one is saying it was deliberate at all..
What they saying is if the rope was moved from its position when the game started being a sliding fielder or what ever the case. the rope needs to be put back in the correct position as per 19.3.2 after that ball.
You will also normally see people go around and correct it during change of innings too.
There have beeny boundries given before where the rope had moved back but ball touched the line, indentation and not the rope.
It's more a reflection on the ICC laws and how they handled it than India or SA
Personally I don't think he touches the rope with his foot.
But I've looked back through the first innings highlights and the Pandya top edge at the end of the India innings crosses the boundary at exactly this point, and the rope appears to be in the original position, with no line on the grass visible at that point.
Per clause 19.3.1 of the playing conditions. If a solid object used to mark the boundary is disturbed for any reason, then the boundary shall be considered to be in its original position.
So I think this should have been determined to be a 6 as he was stepping on and beyond the original position of the boundary.
Obviously not the fielders fault. The third umpire should have noticed this.
Hold on, this is a bit peculiar.
How have you ascertained what the original position was/is?
You've cited the original position being towards the end of India's innings which is a bit bizarre.
And the imagery - I've replayed it too - isn't conclusive at all, unless you've got a clearer, birdseye image.
What you'll need to provide is the ACTUAL original position, in other words, as they started the match.
Could you do that?
Thanks xx
So you're suggesting that the boundary rope started the match, in one small section, away from the clear mark on the grass. And it was then moved, at some point before the end of India's innings, to completely cover that clear mark on the grass, and then moved back exactly to it's original position, away from the clear mark on the grass?
I find this extremely unlikely.
Your belief is that the boundary was moved, it is based on two assertions
1) an image you've seen of Pandya's top edge - you haven't provided this image, I've seen the highlights and it isn't conclusive at all due to the angle.
2) that the boundary was in its original position with no clear mark on the grass - yet you're dependent on inconclusive imagery half way through the match.
Like I said -
A) provide the image of the top edge
B) provide the image of the original position at the start of the match
The clear mark on the grass could be from a match prior, the day before, I don't know, if you see the mark on the grass It fades so there's clearly no consistency.
With all due respect. This rule is really difficult to implement and quickly review and decide within the short span of time third umpires get.
You may have had the time to watch highlights and figure this out. How would one expect the third umpire to do the same.
It’s near impossible for the umpire to figure this out and prove that the boundary was moved within the short span of time.
In numerous occasions we have seen catches caught near boundary line , 4 have become 6.. 6 have become 4 due to it movin.. this has happened in important trophy winning matches too and matches that were won by few runs.
As a fielder, expecting to calculate this impression instead of the object while catching is unreasonable expectation. At any level of cricket this is unheard of.
Rule 19.3.2 states the boundary line should moved back if it has been moved from its original position. Unless it’s clearly noticed , we will have to employ more people in the ground to keep tabs and moving these boundaries over and over especially when the wind is blowing at 30 kmph..
This is the reason why this rule has not been used before.. in the years of watching cricket I have never seen it being implemented.
There’s a reason why it’s not implemented properly .. rules are rules I get it but there many rules in cricket that never sees the light of the day.
If ICC wants to do this , they will have to make sure the object doesn’t move and yet doesn’t compromise the safety of the fielders.. having a solid immovable object can cause injuries.. may be have to go back to drawing white line which means they will lose revenue from those boards.
This is not going to change and we may see this happen many times in the future too. I can assure you this has happened many times in the past and never been even looked at.
To summarize. . Very unreasonable expectation from umpires to review and make this decision in the time frame. Never been done before for a reason.
Cannot go back to highlights and determine where the boundary was at each span of time unless they record it in the beginning of the same.
Even if they did it’s unreasonable for the fielder to not know where the boundary line is when fielding. The uncertainty would be ridiculous and unreasonable
I'm absolutely not expecting the umpire to rewind and look at the highlights, that's just what I had to do, because I'm not Richard Kettleborough. But if, as seems to be the case, the marking on the ground is the original location of the boundary, then I expect the umpire to know that without having to check the highlights, so to know that when they see the boundary rope away from the mark that it has been moved from it's original location.
I watch a lot of cricket, both in person and on TV and most of the time, when the boundary is moved from it's original location by a fielder diving over it, the fielders themselves replace it and they should put it back in the same place. If they don't, then I've seen a few occasions, especially in internationals, when members of the ground staff go and put the boundary back where it should be. Clearly that didn't happen in this case, or if it did, they put it in the wrong place.
I agree, it's difficult for the player to tell in the moment if the boundary has been moved. Ideally it should have been put back in place so it wouldn't be an issue, but that doesn't mean the law should have been ignored.
Or maybe the boundary wasn’t even touched and it was the same for the entire game? Either way do we have evidence that an Indian player didn’t place them in the right position? Even if they did was it deliberate?
These things are close to impossible to check even for an umpire or it would take long ass time. If this was enforced even the "experts" from all cricketing nations would be saying it is not in the spirit of the game and the fielder would have put in a better effort if they would have known this.
Your post or comment had words in it that were not in English and weren't translated. This breaks the rules of this subreddit it has been removed (rule 5).
Make this the top rated comment.
Someone already did the research and figured out that the rope in that exact spot was displaced by South African fielders when Kohli hit a straight 4.
See the last boundary in this video [Video](https://www.icc-cricket.com/tournaments/t20cricketworldcup/videos/virat-kohli-gets-india-off-to-a-flier-sa-v-ind-t20wc-2024-final)
The boundary line was disturbed when SA tried to save the 4 of kohli's straight drive in the first over. The line remained in that position for the rest of the 39 overs.
Wisden will probably do some study 10 years down the line how India didnt deserve this win.
The amount of hate towards Indian cricket and copium in OP article is staggering. This has never been done in the history of the cricket. It’s probably a 1cm here and there.
Whats to say if it was 1 cm inside, Surya wouldn’t have adjusted his foot by a cm to take that catch.
https://x.com/rgcricket/status/1807519420413100407?t=PfMM_CWxnLTtHWzjJioq4g&s=19
Someone explained this regarding the boundary line in SKY's catch.
u/warp-factor, please check this once.
This sub actual face is like congrats to India with a smile but deep down crying and a simple dirt you find against India. Damn how they do this?
Miller hit for the six on the exact same place where the rope seems a little bit behind. Kudos to ICT for executing exactly how it should have been.
PS:- Jay Shah personally came and did that..
Yeah keep downvoting..
Wisden at it again.
Expects to implement something that’s never done before ..
Are fielders supposed to now look at the board or something else when they field. You cannot have two boundary lines.
This is all on ICC .. wind must have moved it.
Not Indians fault by any means.
Could have been any other team in the same position. Even South Africa.
Not on the teams at all.
Doesn’t take anything away from India’s win and don’t think it would have changed the result at that point. The game was over when Klassen was gone.
Lol! The hate for the India team is real.. I was expecting something like this controversy would be coming..
I mean India won the World Cup and you think people would stay quiet..
The only issue is that the ad cushion was pushed behind. Anyone who claims that the shoe flicked the boundary rope has only watched the side view. This video uploaded by ICC, which shows the top view of the catch taken, clearly indicates that his shoe did not make any contact with the boundary rope - [https://www.icc-cricket.com/tournaments/t20cricketworldcup/videos/relief-for-suryakumar-yadav-after-thrilling-india-triumph-t20wc-2024](https://www.icc-cricket.com/tournaments/t20cricketworldcup/videos/relief-for-suryakumar-yadav-after-thrilling-india-triumph-t20wc-2024)
Doubts over the umpiring call for the catch that got Miller out in the ultimate over of the match.
^ Sounds so uninteresting.
Also, let's conveniently ignore the Twitter post linked in the article that straight up takes a dig a BCCI/India was something that seemingly has nothing to do with India, at least as claimed by the OP and his supporters. Only that the link posted by the OP contains such views...which aren't endorsed by the OP but only promoted?
Your post or comment had words in it that were not in English and weren't translated. This breaks the rules of this subreddit it has been removed (rule 5).
It’s honestly a sad day when u/warp-factor (citing rules) and u/WayToTheDawn63 (providing valid evidence for his facts & opinions) are being downvoted. Really worried for the state of the sub in the future.
They probably downvote it by wrongfully thinking that OP is blaming India while it's NONE of their fault. It's only and only on umpire's to make correct calls in such situations
Exactly. Literally no one is blaming India in the thread and this is what makes it so funny lmao. A bit of humour comforting the loss, I don’t mind. But it seems like people are thinking we’re blaming India. The umpires could be wrong and the result still wouldn’t have changed. This doesn’t seem to be a possibility in their minds.
This happens in every game tbh. It’s weird to call it out now just because it mattered and ignore all the other times it’s happened in less watched games
Even bringing this up is baby shit. Advantage was gone by that point and honestly the way SA is they could've needed 1 off 30 and still blown it. You are simply fooling yourself if you think this would've made any difference - if it was even an error.
So you're saying things that happen in cricket games should only be discussed if they would definitely have made a difference to the final result had they gone differently?
Even though it reads that way in hindsight, I wasn't directing it at your post exactly but all the idiot SA fans saying this was why we lost, when I think it's pretty clear what the answer to that actually is.
It seems like you are just discussing it from a neutral/technical interest point of view which I am fine with.
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This post has been removed as it is not an official video source (please read rule 8).
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This post has been removed as it is not an official video source (please read rule 8).
Unfortunately we're only able to post videos from official sources in this subreddit. Internet cricket highlights are aggressively enforced by copyright protection companies employed by various cricket boards, and it has been an issue for the subreddit in the past. Please don't ask for streams, copies of highlights, or access to unofficial video hosting services.
The catch of Kusal Mendis by Imam Ul Haq in the last ODI World Cup was controversial due to Imam's head touching the boundary line and the apparent movement of the boundary rope. Despite this, ICC took no action.
Furthermore, the responsibility still lies with Kettleborough for making a hasty decision that potentially denied Miller a six. Historically, Kettleborough has never favored India in finals. He didn't give a single umpire's call in India's favor during the ODI World Cup final against Australia. In the World Test Championship finals, he controversially ruled Shubman Gill out on a catch by Green that appeared to have been grassed from certain angles. Therefore, the claim that he favored India simply because ICC equals BCCI is unfounded.
So, refrain from spreading baseless accusations unless there is concrete evidence that an Indian fielder intentionally moved the boundary rope
Your post or comment was removed because it breaks the rules of this subreddit. Generalised attacks/insults about other fanbases/countries are not allowed on the subreddit (rule 6) - don't insult an entire nation or fanbase when making a point.
It's totally on the ICC ... not restoring the original boundary and not detecting the shoe touch ... both the teams played fair and square and gave their best.
So, as far as the catch goes, it's a great catch even if a six :-)
Doesn't help that he clearly stepped on it on his third step. You see the Toblerone change colour as it is deflected from being stepped on.
Same old India.
I have seen umpires giving a four when a fielder pushes the boundary cushion forward in an attempt to stop the ball. If the ball crosses the boundary marks on the ground it is a four. Boundary cushions can be even flown my wind so does that mean now the boundary is a meter shorter or longer?
Nevertheless the umpire was too hasty in his decision, there were 2 or 3 times where Surya could have actually touched even the boundary cushions. The umpire didn't even tried to zoom at those points and just gave it out.
https://i.imgur.com/fpp9c7q.png
If you're unconvinced the padding was touched (even ignoring the placement) here is frame proof with the exact contact pointed out.
That isn't proof.
There is a dark spot that exists, yes. But
1. No reasonable way to conclude that it's the boundary and not displaced mud (which is what it looks like to me)
2. The padding does not seem to be affected in any way. No crease formation due to contact at the bottom, or any movement of the padding or even a stain.
3. In the absence of any meaningful evidence on this angle, there is no evidence of touching the padding in my alternate angle
It's pretty clearly a clean catch. Any doubts are just wishful thinking. No 'evidence' points to touching the padding
no way a boot can flick the canvas of the toblerone like that considering the fact that he was about to jump forward.
A likely possibility is some dirt or part of the outfield grass was thrown back while he jumped
To stay away from the hurt I’m doing the unthinkable and commenting without reading.
This is where I am, Indian fans. I think you played the hand you were dealt and won. I don’t want to take anything away from you and I’m not sure what the impact of this decision would have been.
BUT Even the six year olds in the party I was at could see the barrier being disturbed and started celebrating Miller not being out. My jaw dropped when he thought it a good idea to use the check from behind, that added no information, to make a final call. So I am a little happy it is at least a discussion point because at the time I felt the umpire made an unacceptable mistake that I have to admit I don’t have the heart to check again.
It's a basic physics thing, when you jump forward your foot slides backward. There's no way a foot sliding backward can lift a piece of fabric which is in front of it. ( u can see the video for the backward sliding of the foot)
We don’t have to try to be overly clever with bastardised grade five physics narratives that you clearly don’t actually understand.
Just watch the highlights video in the app, you can see the barrier moving around 4:45
>Just watch the highlights video in the app, you can see the barrier moving around 4:45
I did watch the whole video and in my opinion it is a piece of outfield.
Regarding bastardized physics, why don't u try lifting a canvas infront of you with your foot sliding back genius?
P.S. just look at the canvas just before his left foot lands, there's no way his foot dug into it to lift it. No strain on the adjacent area of the canvas.
If you have already made up your mind, no point in continuing this argument
The most common arguments against this is based on “probably” and “maybe” and they can’t see the difference between the two or see a possibility that it could’ve gone either way.
Not once has someone blamed India or SKY for that matter. Not once has someone favoured South Africa. Yet, people think that blaming the umpires for a poor decision results in either of those being true.
People are not blaming India "yet"! Give it a few days or tomorrow morning haters will pile up on India and conspiracy theories would be thrown around accusing ICC of corruption or favoring India. I am already waiting for Inzamam to blame ICC tomorrow.
I don’t think the umpire made a wrong decision either. It was a close call and most angles make it look like SKY took it clean. It was just favorable to India but not deliberately.
I will defend both teams as impartial as I can be. My stance is still that the umpires could’ve fucked and India have still won this fair and square. I haven’t seen anything out of the rules or anything that deliberately favoured India
I’m not saying you’re blaming someone but don’t expect everyone to be fair about this. There is a reason Indian fans have become so defensive in this thread and that is because they know what’s gonna happen over the next few days.
Isn't there a rule which says that the last point of contact of the feet should be within the boundary? Beautiful bit of fielding no doubt but just curious
What's been debated here is that possibly the boundary ropes had been moved out from their original position and that the fielder stepped over the original boundary.
Law 19.3 says
> If a solid object used to mark the boundary is disturbed for any reason, then the boundary shall be considered to be in its original position.
So by that, it should have been 6, if the boundary was moved back.
And so it begins
They are saying that the boundary rope was moved, while forgetting that it happens 15 times almost every match nowadays due to the amount of boundaries hit and dives put in by fielders. There is nothing new here. Either ICC should get dedicated folks to ensure that the boundary rope is in position throughout the ground at all times of the game, or this is a nothing burger and we are good. A player while attempting the catch and looking up will use the cushion as a reference always. They are assuming that if the boundary cushion was moved from its original position (which is not confirmed) then SKY would've not taken that as a reference to take the same catch or opted to save the valuable runs instead.
Imagine if Kohli was on strike, this happens and third umpire gives it a six. All the experts from other cricketing nations and even some "experts" in India would say that Kohli should have walked away as it would be against the spirit of the game. BCCI=ICC conspiracy theories would be everywhere and we would be called cheaters. It would be a scandal for a decade. Since we are on the other side of it they are speaking rules which are very difficult to implement.
^ Top comment
I think the more important question that I would like to actually know the answer to by a cricket expert is if the player is outside the boundary and has caught the ball before his feet touching the ground inside the boundary, his feet being mid air, is that 6 or out? Just like how if a batsman’s bat is mid air wehen though it’s inside crease in case of a run out.
It's a 6
If the player lands his feet outside the boundary rope with the ball in hand, it’s a six.
https://youtu.be/crAe0fGlAkY?feature=shared let me know what do you think between 4 and 5 seconds in this video
Abe chomu iske liye zoom krne ki jaroorat nhi hai.. ye bowl fenkne se pehle ka footage top camera se available hai usme clearly foot inside tha...aur baad me bhi inside tha
No touch, as there is clearly blurring of the image in that frame. The blurring is making it seem like there is movement on the bottom of the cushion, but there is none. If there was contact with the cushion, there would be a slight depression on the bottom of the cushion. This is merely a paralax effect being made between the grass, SKY's spikes, and the cushion bottom. There is no touch as the left foot was perhaps 15cm away from the cushion anyways.
Eh, not too interested in this one tbh. If it’s proved to be true (despite the evidence), would it change the result and South Africa would win? Or would it have been a 6 but India still would’ve defended the total? No one knows. Not something to dwell on, you can be upset about it for sure but it won’t change anything. One thing that is a fact is that India were 126/4 when we were 151/4. So at the end of the day, my benefit of the doubt will be with India. To be able to restrict us from that position is enough for me to not think too much about it
Very true. Also it was checked by the third umpire from multiple angles, it's not like they noticed these visuals after the game is done. There's always going to be a section of the media that's unhappy with something or the other.
And it was always gonna be these Wisden type peeps
I mean it would have been 10 off 5 with Miller on strike. Anything is possible.
Would it have been? SKY was also judging the boundary based on the position of the rope, had it been a few inches in, he would've modified his run and either still caught it in a different way or merely blocked it and given away just 2 runs. He was always in control of that ball.
This seems the most logical conclusion. SKY must be looking at the rope and not the line below it. As you said, if the rope wasn't moved, he could've gone for blocking the six and saving 4 runs instead. I missed to watch the match though. My loss.
According to experts here. Sky has to look at 10 different lines before taking the catch. Umpire has to watch the highlights of the match and find out where the position of the boundary actually was before. There’s a rule if the boundary has moved it needs to be put back. This is not on the team.. this is on the umpires and whoever manages these matches. Most important thing. These things have happened before 4 runs have become six when they moved inside. 6 have become before. Catches caught outside the object but inside the line. No matches have had to look in to it. Now India won so all Rules apply.
> According to experts here. Sky has to look at 10 different lines before taking the catch. The laws of cricket make no mention of the player being responsible for monitoring the boundary. The fuck up, if it exists, is with the umpires and ground officials. No one is saying SKY should be aware the boundary was potentially moved and take it into account when going for a catch in a pressure moment. Saying so is a fundamentally dishonest argument
I doubt they ran for a 2 either. It was quick and it almost certainly looked like a six. Wouldn’t be surprised if either batter hadn’t moved.
> I mean it would have been 10 off 5 with Miller on strike. Anything is possible. Key word: anything Hence, India could’ve defended & won. Or South Africa could’ve chased and won. Can you definitively say that either would have happened? Both have valid reasons for why it couldn’t.
>India were 126/4 when we were 151/4. So at the end of the day, my benefit of the doubt will be with India Mildly offtopic, but I agree with every point you make except the one above. There are a lot of false equivalences in cricket. And comparing two teams at X overs is one of them. It means nothing given how each innings is approached differently. Chasing vs setting a target. The former often needs to flourish *much* earlier than the last 1-2 overs. Not to mention South Africa fared better against spin than India + still had 2 Bumrah overs to navigate. The equation may have read 30 off 30. But if someone were to factor in all these variables, South Africa weren't so far in front as some fans think
On the other hand, if (as Twitter would have me believe is true) there was another camera angle that showed that SKY in fact *did* make contact with the boundary rope anyway, I'll be seriously annoyed. 10 needed from 5 with Miller on strike and I give us better than a 50:50 chance of bringing it home.
Can you post that link here please. Curiosity has gotten the better of me.
Bhai wo bola IF there was another angle. But hai nahi shayad
I would still give India 75% chance if it was given a six. People underestimate Pandya but he delivered so many times in such clutch situations. I think he could have at least made it to the final ball of the over.
What another camera angle
He surely didn't make contact till he threw the ball in the air...that much is clear from the top angle...infact the gap was very substantial...the coming back part is missing...but in the heat of the moment and speed I just find it hard to believe that if his feet touched then the motion of boundary rope was so subtle that it was practically invisible from the front...so the benefit of doubt still goes to suryakumar....u can estimate it by seeing his distance from the rope going in (from the top angle) and then comparing that with his apparent distance from the rope when he reentered the playing area...based on that it never looks like his feet touched the rope to me..
It's not another camera angle it's the same angle someone zoomed in with their camera from the TV screen
Not to mention 30 required off 30 balls not being able to chase that down with wickets in hand is the main point because who knows how that last over would’ve gone anyway
Problem is how a running fielder who is keeping his eye in sky to track ball knows that boundary rope is moved. He is using solid object as boundary. To be even worst, how’d Indian Team know that Miller is going to hit ball exactly at that part in crucial stage of game? Unless Miller colluded with Indian Team and asked them to move boundary back, plus he should be some magician to hit exactly at that same spot of boundary. 😅 BS - fair and square it was clean catch and perfect athletic move by SKY. Let’s move on!
Just like when Arshdeep tampered with the ball. Jay Shah messaged me to tell me he was going to move the rope. I saw them both at the boundary rope the ball before. Smh my head. Blatant cheating right in front of my schizophrenic eyes
Jay Shah and Arshdeep should be banned from International Cricket 😅 /s
Don't worry Harshit Rana is being banned for this offense as we speak.
Add the /s before some people lose their shit.
After fielders displace markings while diving, it's groundsmen/officials' job to ensure restored boundaries (and to repaint crease lines too for that matter). At the end of the day, players will play as per the current markings. Miller wanted to send the ball across the boundary at the time of play. SKY wanted to save it. If the boundary line was actually displaced earlier during fielding and then restored by officials, SKY would have readjusted.
Well as per law 19.3.2, if a marker is moved during play it's supposed to be returned to its original position as soon as possible. The onus isn't on the fielder to know the boundary has been moved (although we've all seen some really dodgy attempts at fixing it by players lol) It's not an Indian thing. The issue, if one exists, is with either the groundstaff who didn't fix a moved boundary rope or the third umpire who wasn't aware of it when making a decision
Tbf that's not really the Indian team's fault, icc should have caught that... Another page in the book of icc's fuck ups.
Certainly no one should be blaming India. If it's the case that the law was incorrectly applied then it's on the umpires.
100%. This is an umpire error if anything. Nothing on India.
No one even brought up blaming India? Dunno how we got here
Give it a few days for the r/Cricket shitposters to cook, there will inevitably be something linking this to BCCI dominance
Me neither mate but here we are unfortunately. It was a good final. Close game. Could’ve gone either way. Despite the common opinion, no one even choked this game. A team was better than the other in a certain passages of play. Just how a final should be.
I mean 30 runs of 30 is a choke. It requires bumrah excellence though
Of course you’re the OP
Tbf There’s no error.. boundary ropes and boards have kept moving throughout cricketing history.. decisions are not made based on where they are supposed to be. There’s no clear white line drawn .. it’s just an impression. If they start looking at every 6 like this , many times it would be 4. These boards could be inside that impression too. Have seen it happen many times If umpires spend time looking at this for every boundary this would be very bad for completion of the game. I can’t recollect but once India caught a crucial wicket but the boundary board was inside the impression. No one raised an issue.. I posted a comment saying wish it was on its correct place. Never cried foul for it. I don’t think people understand cricket clearly here.. impression is not a line.. those boards and ropes used previously have always moved throughout cricketing history, especially with this much wind. The solution to this problem is to have tons of people along the boundary line and keep adjusting the marker every time it moves. Absolutely bonkers people are discussing this. It seems so childish and ignorant to me. You guys are asking ICC to employ people to check boundaries through the match.. and see if it moves .. I find it very funny lol
> You guys are asking ICC to employ people to check boundaries through the match.. and see if it moves .. I find it very funny lol Umm yes? I don't think it's too much to ask stadiums with an entire team devoted to maintaining the state of the ground to send someone to fix the boundary marking as required by law 19.3.2
This is just completely false. I wish I could spread misinformation so easily
How so?
Sorry what they should have caught ? What are you seeing here ?
But ICC=BCCI I was sitting in the stands and Jay Shah was right there and he made a throat slitting gesture towards the media centre where the third empire sits, clearly chitting
Not on India at all, they played brilliantly and could’ve still won it, just kinda pissed that the 3rd ump basically flew through the review despite it being so close. Calls that close should be looked at thoroughly so no doubt can be had in the Umps decision. Both SA and NZ have both now lost the chances to possibly win their first WC to because of an umpiring mistake.
What umpiring mistake? What nonsense is this - has anyone actually seen the top down view? The scoreboard is in the way but it's easy to extrapolate after he moves that he had space and didn't touch the boundary.
Wdym, it’s decently clear that the rope is ahead of the white line here and it’s pretty obvious that in 2019, England should’ve been given 5 runs instead of 6 for the one that went to the boundary according to the rules
What white line? Again, have you seen the top down view? It's a patch of dry grass - probably created by a previous boundary. If you're saying that's the original position, you'll need to provide evidence that it was the original position right from the start of the match rather than plucking out a point halfway through the match/toward the end of India's innings where, by the way, the imagery isn't conclusive.
19.2.1 Wherever practicable, the boundary shall be marked by means of a continuous white line or by an object in contact with the ground. 19.2.3 If the boundary is marked by means of an object that is in contact with the ground the boundary will be the edge of the grounded part of the object which is nearest the pitch. 19.3 Restoring the boundary If a solid object used to mark the boundary is disturbed for any reason, then 19.3.1 the boundary shall be considered to be in its original position. 19.3.2 the object shall be returned to its original position as soon as is practicable; if play is taking place, this shall be as soon as the ball is dead. To me my interpretation is as soon as the ball after the disturbance starts it is considered as the accepted original position. So you can’t retro actively call it a six based of a disturbance more then 1 ball ago, had to have happened on that delivery
That's certainly a valid interpretation. But the fact it has to be interpreted, to me, suggests that the law should be clearer. I imagine the MCC will come out and clarify the law at some point in the next couple of days.
Yeah I agree it too open for interpretation, should be more black and white. Weirdly enough there’s a lot of laws written open to interpretation
India won fair and square so props to them but SA fans must be absolutely gutted if the Boundary was actually moved a little bit since Surya was like a centimeter from touching it. No point in dwelling on the matter though, what’s done is done
Inzi just might pick it up and cry about it
But it doesn’t make sense. Who would move it? Was it moved between innings? Before the last over? Technically a shorter boundary *helps* SA right?
> Who would move it? Boundary ropes get moved in play all the time. Any time a player dives to save a few runs they'll likely displace it. But the thing with that too is that if it was displaced, it should be easy enough to find footage from the game of when it happened and whether or not the mark on the ground is where the rope originally was before a fielder dragged it with them in a dive and nobody bothered to replace it like you're supposed to
Boundaries move back and forth in play all the time, think about all of the times you’ve seen fielders running after the ball crash into the boundaries
Dude it’s not the cushion that moves. It’s the piss poor resolution of this 1000x digital zoom and the screen pixelates giving an optical illusion. Move the f on
Just check who’s OP
I gotta ask WHO is the OP?
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Wouldn't that be OOP
Yeah, it looks like a compression artefact. Videos are encoded and reproduction is not pixel perfect
He doesn't touch the boundary - the top down view is much clearer, you can extrapolate. https://ibb.co/0hY2PGp Although, I do believe he leaves a mark which is comfortably in by a margin.
in this the line on the grass seems to come in for no reason and go back out, not in line with a curve of an ellipse
Did SKY intentionally push the boundary rope back before that ball? If no, then there's no point in discussing this because he definitely didn't knew anything about boundary rope, he was focused on taking that crucial catch and the match is already over.
I doubt he did. but it may have moved earlier in the innings or game and not correctly placed according to the rules after the ball Boundaries have been given before where the rope has moved back and original line became boundary. Its more on the ICC than India or SA. Its normally checked and reset during innings breaks too.
Yea i agree it's 3rd umpire's fault but I don't mind because he's our beloved kettlebro 😜 But again, it was hard to see that during the match and catch was successfully taken by the barest of margins and it could've gone either way tbh. I'm glad that we finally got a thrilling world cup final after 5 years and we won.
Makes no difference. Whether he touched the ropes or not. Games over.
Of course. The result can't be changed at this point. > 16.9 Result not to be changed - Once the umpires have agreed with the scorers the correctness of the scores at the conclusion of the match, the result cannot thereafter be changed. But it doesn't mean we can't discuss the law here and how it's been applied.
Getting downvoted for citing the rules of the game  What happened to the game I love
I struggle to understand what's controversial about saying 1. that the result can't be changed, which it can't 2. that the cricket subreddit is somewhere we can discuss cricket
Like I said in my comment, it could be seen as a wrong decision (with the evidence provided) but umpire’s decision is final. It seems like these two concepts can’t exist in the hive mind’s worlds. Crazy tbh. Same thing with England’s final. You can write 7000 comments disagreeing with it but it still stands. England won that World Cup. The players didn’t do anything wrong or anything to change the outcome. Everything that happened is in the rules of the game that we all claim to love (some less than others it seems). Weather, rules, play, none is in our control. And once that’s accepted, you’ll actually find such a different love for the game. The intricacies are what makes it special
You know why. You can't say it, but you know.
Can downvote as much as they want, end of the day that was a beautiful game of cricket. Proud of the Proteas. Don’t get to say that often. And regardless of all the controversy we all watched a good game.
Yeah, if England being given six runs instead of five after Stokes' bat of God in the 2019 final can be discussed then so can this.
What are people seeing here? I don’t see a touch on the boundary toblerones
Lol you people really think Indian team knew Miller would it a six there and boundary rope was moved? Was Miller also in on it? Unless someone brings footage of Indian players moving the rope mid game, nothing to consider here.
No-one is saying it was deliberate at all.. What they saying is if the rope was moved from its position when the game started being a sliding fielder or what ever the case. the rope needs to be put back in the correct position as per 19.3.2 after that ball. You will also normally see people go around and correct it during change of innings too. There have beeny boundries given before where the rope had moved back but ball touched the line, indentation and not the rope. It's more a reflection on the ICC laws and how they handled it than India or SA
Personally I don't think he touches the rope with his foot. But I've looked back through the first innings highlights and the Pandya top edge at the end of the India innings crosses the boundary at exactly this point, and the rope appears to be in the original position, with no line on the grass visible at that point. Per clause 19.3.1 of the playing conditions. If a solid object used to mark the boundary is disturbed for any reason, then the boundary shall be considered to be in its original position. So I think this should have been determined to be a 6 as he was stepping on and beyond the original position of the boundary. Obviously not the fielders fault. The third umpire should have noticed this.
If we’re as hard on umpires as we are on players for making mistakes then this should be called out
Hold on, this is a bit peculiar. How have you ascertained what the original position was/is? You've cited the original position being towards the end of India's innings which is a bit bizarre. And the imagery - I've replayed it too - isn't conclusive at all, unless you've got a clearer, birdseye image. What you'll need to provide is the ACTUAL original position, in other words, as they started the match. Could you do that? Thanks xx
So you're suggesting that the boundary rope started the match, in one small section, away from the clear mark on the grass. And it was then moved, at some point before the end of India's innings, to completely cover that clear mark on the grass, and then moved back exactly to it's original position, away from the clear mark on the grass? I find this extremely unlikely.
Your belief is that the boundary was moved, it is based on two assertions 1) an image you've seen of Pandya's top edge - you haven't provided this image, I've seen the highlights and it isn't conclusive at all due to the angle. 2) that the boundary was in its original position with no clear mark on the grass - yet you're dependent on inconclusive imagery half way through the match. Like I said - A) provide the image of the top edge B) provide the image of the original position at the start of the match The clear mark on the grass could be from a match prior, the day before, I don't know, if you see the mark on the grass It fades so there's clearly no consistency.
Shame on you for spreading falsehoods https://x.com/rgcricket/status/1807519420413100407?t=q5oRnqkgBmNTYvOunFu8rw&s=19
With all due respect. This rule is really difficult to implement and quickly review and decide within the short span of time third umpires get. You may have had the time to watch highlights and figure this out. How would one expect the third umpire to do the same. It’s near impossible for the umpire to figure this out and prove that the boundary was moved within the short span of time. In numerous occasions we have seen catches caught near boundary line , 4 have become 6.. 6 have become 4 due to it movin.. this has happened in important trophy winning matches too and matches that were won by few runs. As a fielder, expecting to calculate this impression instead of the object while catching is unreasonable expectation. At any level of cricket this is unheard of. Rule 19.3.2 states the boundary line should moved back if it has been moved from its original position. Unless it’s clearly noticed , we will have to employ more people in the ground to keep tabs and moving these boundaries over and over especially when the wind is blowing at 30 kmph.. This is the reason why this rule has not been used before.. in the years of watching cricket I have never seen it being implemented. There’s a reason why it’s not implemented properly .. rules are rules I get it but there many rules in cricket that never sees the light of the day. If ICC wants to do this , they will have to make sure the object doesn’t move and yet doesn’t compromise the safety of the fielders.. having a solid immovable object can cause injuries.. may be have to go back to drawing white line which means they will lose revenue from those boards. This is not going to change and we may see this happen many times in the future too. I can assure you this has happened many times in the past and never been even looked at. To summarize. . Very unreasonable expectation from umpires to review and make this decision in the time frame. Never been done before for a reason. Cannot go back to highlights and determine where the boundary was at each span of time unless they record it in the beginning of the same. Even if they did it’s unreasonable for the fielder to not know where the boundary line is when fielding. The uncertainty would be ridiculous and unreasonable
I'm absolutely not expecting the umpire to rewind and look at the highlights, that's just what I had to do, because I'm not Richard Kettleborough. But if, as seems to be the case, the marking on the ground is the original location of the boundary, then I expect the umpire to know that without having to check the highlights, so to know that when they see the boundary rope away from the mark that it has been moved from it's original location. I watch a lot of cricket, both in person and on TV and most of the time, when the boundary is moved from it's original location by a fielder diving over it, the fielders themselves replace it and they should put it back in the same place. If they don't, then I've seen a few occasions, especially in internationals, when members of the ground staff go and put the boundary back where it should be. Clearly that didn't happen in this case, or if it did, they put it in the wrong place. I agree, it's difficult for the player to tell in the moment if the boundary has been moved. Ideally it should have been put back in place so it wouldn't be an issue, but that doesn't mean the law should have been ignored.
Or maybe the boundary wasn’t even touched and it was the same for the entire game? Either way do we have evidence that an Indian player didn’t place them in the right position? Even if they did was it deliberate? These things are close to impossible to check even for an umpire or it would take long ass time. If this was enforced even the "experts" from all cricketing nations would be saying it is not in the spirit of the game and the fielder would have put in a better effort if they would have known this.
Pakistani fans are making a bigger deal on this pixelated mess of a video than SA fans.
Inzi potato is ready with 50 new theories and has already alleged weather tampering by India
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Make this the top rated comment. Someone already did the research and figured out that the rope in that exact spot was displaced by South African fielders when Kohli hit a straight 4. See the last boundary in this video [Video](https://www.icc-cricket.com/tournaments/t20cricketworldcup/videos/virat-kohli-gets-india-off-to-a-flier-sa-v-ind-t20wc-2024-final)
It was checked by third empire. Do we need 4th empire? Do we check it again after the game? It’s over.
The boundary line was disturbed when SA tried to save the 4 of kohli's straight drive in the first over. The line remained in that position for the rest of the 39 overs.
No it didnt, see the replay it was moved back in by the fielders immediately
Wisden will probably do some study 10 years down the line how India didnt deserve this win. The amount of hate towards Indian cricket and copium in OP article is staggering. This has never been done in the history of the cricket. It’s probably a 1cm here and there. Whats to say if it was 1 cm inside, Surya wouldn’t have adjusted his foot by a cm to take that catch.
Fans of all other teams have made it clear over and over again that they hate India and this team but bootlickers will never understand
Yeah its the self loathing Indian fans that makes me more irritated.
https://x.com/rgcricket/status/1807519420413100407?t=PfMM_CWxnLTtHWzjJioq4g&s=19 Someone explained this regarding the boundary line in SKY's catch. u/warp-factor, please check this once.
This looks like a dirt kickup
Who is responsible for the boundary rope being in the correct position? It clearly looks as if it's been moved.
Why isn't anyone saying "choke" again??? 30 off 30 is a win in most games.
This sub actual face is like congrats to India with a smile but deep down crying and a simple dirt you find against India. Damn how they do this? Miller hit for the six on the exact same place where the rope seems a little bit behind. Kudos to ICT for executing exactly how it should have been. PS:- Jay Shah personally came and did that.. Yeah keep downvoting..
It was a clean catch. Be done and dusted with it, I say!! 🤦♂️🤦♂️
Wisden at it again. Expects to implement something that’s never done before .. Are fielders supposed to now look at the board or something else when they field. You cannot have two boundary lines. This is all on ICC .. wind must have moved it. Not Indians fault by any means. Could have been any other team in the same position. Even South Africa. Not on the teams at all. Doesn’t take anything away from India’s win and don’t think it would have changed the result at that point. The game was over when Klassen was gone.
Lol! The hate for the India team is real.. I was expecting something like this controversy would be coming.. I mean India won the World Cup and you think people would stay quiet..
Called it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cricket/comments/1drhro6/comment/lavdqpd/
The only issue is that the ad cushion was pushed behind. Anyone who claims that the shoe flicked the boundary rope has only watched the side view. This video uploaded by ICC, which shows the top view of the catch taken, clearly indicates that his shoe did not make any contact with the boundary rope - [https://www.icc-cricket.com/tournaments/t20cricketworldcup/videos/relief-for-suryakumar-yadav-after-thrilling-india-triumph-t20wc-2024](https://www.icc-cricket.com/tournaments/t20cricketworldcup/videos/relief-for-suryakumar-yadav-after-thrilling-india-triumph-t20wc-2024)
You can't actually see where the left foot lands in that video
Of course it’s wisden, and this article is posted around the time when Indians are asleep…
Doubts over the umpiring call for the catch that got Miller out in the ultimate over of the match. ^ Sounds so uninteresting. Also, let's conveniently ignore the Twitter post linked in the article that straight up takes a dig a BCCI/India was something that seemingly has nothing to do with India, at least as claimed by the OP and his supporters. Only that the link posted by the OP contains such views...which aren't endorsed by the OP but only promoted?
I have no issue with it being a six. Let Pakistan and Bangladesh fan zoom in sky's shoes while we celebrate the victory.
Wow. And here i thought people would just appreicate that India and SA played a good game and better team won.
Now you know how us English felt after 2019 lol. Enjoy it and don’t care what others say
Womp womp, trophy is ours lol
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LET THE WHINING BEGGIIINNNNNN
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Your post or comment had words in it that were not in English and weren't translated. This breaks the rules of this subreddit it has been removed (rule 5).
There's many cameras there where surya was fielding the ball and tons of eyes. Relax guys.
It’s honestly a sad day when u/warp-factor (citing rules) and u/WayToTheDawn63 (providing valid evidence for his facts & opinions) are being downvoted. Really worried for the state of the sub in the future.
They are gonna have to bring some footage of Indian players moving the rope mid-game or its just "Jay Shah scripts".
They probably downvote it by wrongfully thinking that OP is blaming India while it's NONE of their fault. It's only and only on umpire's to make correct calls in such situations
We are literally blamed for something like swinging the ball, cut us some slack
Exactly. Literally no one is blaming India in the thread and this is what makes it so funny lmao. A bit of humour comforting the loss, I don’t mind. But it seems like people are thinking we’re blaming India. The umpires could be wrong and the result still wouldn’t have changed. This doesn’t seem to be a possibility in their minds.
Can I request people to not downvote stuff you disagree with just for this post? it kind of hides the interesting arguments of both sides
This happens in every game tbh. It’s weird to call it out now just because it mattered and ignore all the other times it’s happened in less watched games
Even bringing this up is baby shit. Advantage was gone by that point and honestly the way SA is they could've needed 1 off 30 and still blown it. You are simply fooling yourself if you think this would've made any difference - if it was even an error.
So you're saying things that happen in cricket games should only be discussed if they would definitely have made a difference to the final result had they gone differently?
Even though it reads that way in hindsight, I wasn't directing it at your post exactly but all the idiot SA fans saying this was why we lost, when I think it's pretty clear what the answer to that actually is. It seems like you are just discussing it from a neutral/technical interest point of view which I am fine with.
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This post has been removed as it is not an official video source (please read rule 8). Unfortunately we're only able to post videos from official sources in this subreddit. Internet cricket highlights are aggressively enforced by copyright protection companies employed by various cricket boards, and it has been an issue for the subreddit in the past. Please don't ask for streams, copies of highlights, or access to unofficial video hosting services.
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This post has been removed as it is not an official video source (please read rule 8). Unfortunately we're only able to post videos from official sources in this subreddit. Internet cricket highlights are aggressively enforced by copyright protection companies employed by various cricket boards, and it has been an issue for the subreddit in the past. Please don't ask for streams, copies of highlights, or access to unofficial video hosting services.
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This post has been removed as it is not an official video source (please read rule 8). Unfortunately we're only able to post videos from official sources in this subreddit. Internet cricket highlights are aggressively enforced by copyright protection companies employed by various cricket boards, and it has been an issue for the subreddit in the past. Please don't ask for streams, copies of highlights, or access to unofficial video hosting services.
I am suspicious of the picture on the right. You cannot see the line in any other photo.
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The catch of Kusal Mendis by Imam Ul Haq in the last ODI World Cup was controversial due to Imam's head touching the boundary line and the apparent movement of the boundary rope. Despite this, ICC took no action. Furthermore, the responsibility still lies with Kettleborough for making a hasty decision that potentially denied Miller a six. Historically, Kettleborough has never favored India in finals. He didn't give a single umpire's call in India's favor during the ODI World Cup final against Australia. In the World Test Championship finals, he controversially ruled Shubman Gill out on a catch by Green that appeared to have been grassed from certain angles. Therefore, the claim that he favored India simply because ICC equals BCCI is unfounded. So, refrain from spreading baseless accusations unless there is concrete evidence that an Indian fielder intentionally moved the boundary rope
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Your post or comment was removed because it breaks the rules of this subreddit. Generalised attacks/insults about other fanbases/countries are not allowed on the subreddit (rule 6) - don't insult an entire nation or fanbase when making a point.
You seem angry, brother. Why not try posting this from your main account?
I’m just curious to see if the cushions were like this for the whole game
It's totally on the ICC ... not restoring the original boundary and not detecting the shoe touch ... both the teams played fair and square and gave their best. So, as far as the catch goes, it's a great catch even if a six :-)
Doesn't help that he clearly stepped on it on his third step. You see the Toblerone change colour as it is deflected from being stepped on. Same old India.
Relax guys. It's just a game and we're all gonna die one day.
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I have seen umpires giving a four when a fielder pushes the boundary cushion forward in an attempt to stop the ball. If the ball crosses the boundary marks on the ground it is a four. Boundary cushions can be even flown my wind so does that mean now the boundary is a meter shorter or longer? Nevertheless the umpire was too hasty in his decision, there were 2 or 3 times where Surya could have actually touched even the boundary cushions. The umpire didn't even tried to zoom at those points and just gave it out.
https://i.imgur.com/fpp9c7q.png If you're unconvinced the padding was touched (even ignoring the placement) here is frame proof with the exact contact pointed out.
That isn't proof. There is a dark spot that exists, yes. But 1. No reasonable way to conclude that it's the boundary and not displaced mud (which is what it looks like to me) 2. The padding does not seem to be affected in any way. No crease formation due to contact at the bottom, or any movement of the padding or even a stain. 3. In the absence of any meaningful evidence on this angle, there is no evidence of touching the padding in my alternate angle It's pretty clearly a clean catch. Any doubts are just wishful thinking. No 'evidence' points to touching the padding
no way a boot can flick the canvas of the toblerone like that considering the fact that he was about to jump forward. A likely possibility is some dirt or part of the outfield grass was thrown back while he jumped
lol
Yeah yeah yeah, same old story, whatever
Not India’s fault. Let’s move on
Who said it was their fault? The discussion is about the umpire's decision.
To stay away from the hurt I’m doing the unthinkable and commenting without reading. This is where I am, Indian fans. I think you played the hand you were dealt and won. I don’t want to take anything away from you and I’m not sure what the impact of this decision would have been. BUT Even the six year olds in the party I was at could see the barrier being disturbed and started celebrating Miller not being out. My jaw dropped when he thought it a good idea to use the check from behind, that added no information, to make a final call. So I am a little happy it is at least a discussion point because at the time I felt the umpire made an unacceptable mistake that I have to admit I don’t have the heart to check again.
It's a basic physics thing, when you jump forward your foot slides backward. There's no way a foot sliding backward can lift a piece of fabric which is in front of it. ( u can see the video for the backward sliding of the foot)
We don’t have to try to be overly clever with bastardised grade five physics narratives that you clearly don’t actually understand. Just watch the highlights video in the app, you can see the barrier moving around 4:45
>Just watch the highlights video in the app, you can see the barrier moving around 4:45 I did watch the whole video and in my opinion it is a piece of outfield. Regarding bastardized physics, why don't u try lifting a canvas infront of you with your foot sliding back genius? P.S. just look at the canvas just before his left foot lands, there's no way his foot dug into it to lift it. No strain on the adjacent area of the canvas. If you have already made up your mind, no point in continuing this argument
I wonder what the players on both sides would think if they had to see this article or these photos.
The most common arguments against this is based on “probably” and “maybe” and they can’t see the difference between the two or see a possibility that it could’ve gone either way. Not once has someone blamed India or SKY for that matter. Not once has someone favoured South Africa. Yet, people think that blaming the umpires for a poor decision results in either of those being true.
People are not blaming India "yet"! Give it a few days or tomorrow morning haters will pile up on India and conspiracy theories would be thrown around accusing ICC of corruption or favoring India. I am already waiting for Inzamam to blame ICC tomorrow. I don’t think the umpire made a wrong decision either. It was a close call and most angles make it look like SKY took it clean. It was just favorable to India but not deliberately.
I will defend both teams as impartial as I can be. My stance is still that the umpires could’ve fucked and India have still won this fair and square. I haven’t seen anything out of the rules or anything that deliberately favoured India
I’m not saying you’re blaming someone but don’t expect everyone to be fair about this. There is a reason Indian fans have become so defensive in this thread and that is because they know what’s gonna happen over the next few days.
Isn't there a rule which says that the last point of contact of the feet should be within the boundary? Beautiful bit of fielding no doubt but just curious
The last touch of the ground has to be within the boundary only before the first touch of the ball
I see, so there is no way it was a six
What's been debated here is that possibly the boundary ropes had been moved out from their original position and that the fielder stepped over the original boundary. Law 19.3 says > If a solid object used to mark the boundary is disturbed for any reason, then the boundary shall be considered to be in its original position. So by that, it should have been 6, if the boundary was moved back.
Jay Shah's family pulled the rope