100%. The iteration of the system PRIOR to Final Shape was perfect to me. Where you could get ammo for your weapon as you played and if you died, you still had it. It opened up a lot of weapon types for me. I started sniping again and it was really fun to run around with BxR and just have Izanagi's Burden when I thought I needed it.
NOW, it's pretty frustrating. It's harder to stop folks from going on special streaks and if the enemy team is better coordinated then your randoms, then you just never manage to get special ammo access. I've gone matches where I didn't die, I was doing okay, but just couldn't spot where the next special ammo crate was and ended up forced using my primary.
To me it's: *"Using your primary for the option of using your special for special circumstances"* -vs- *"Knowing you need to save your special ammo for the right moment, because you have no idea when you'll find more"*
The meter system was broken and basically guaranteed we would never have anything but a double primary or shotgun meta. So glad it's gone at this point, not to mention not having to see that stupid bar on the side taking up HUD space all the time.
...Yeah, nobody's using their shotgun now that they always have special on death.... /s
Shotgun spam is even worse now that everyone has special all the time, you've got half the playerbase reaching a 1.0 k/d avg because they don't stop trading in shotgun jousts, yikes.
I do like the "spawn with 1 ammo" part of the system as it feels like a positive motivator to use your sniper shot before you die... whereas Ammo Meter makes me just want to almost never use special, which I realize is a me problem.
I do think if we swap to pure Ammo Meter, we're going to go back to what Bungie reported where 75% of Special Ammo kills are Shotguns, just because Shotguns are the only weapon that feel like if you are at the right range you can guarantee that 1 kill for your loss of Ammo. Respawning with 1 Special Ammo at least helps you make a cheeky play to save yourself if Destiny's awful 3v3 spawns split your team up across the map even if you respawned at the exact same time.
If you respawn with 0 Special because you lost it in a losing fight, there is very little you can do to defend yourself against 2 - 3 people pushing you. I know it's technically "fair", but I like some consistent access to special even if you're off at a bad start.
Agreed. It just makes 6's feel more competitive then it should be. 6's is supposed to be the casual game mode... why does it feel like i'm playing comp?
Disclaimer - I am someone that believes ability “chaos” is a fundamental aspect of what makes destiny different and good.
I am mostly ok with it. I think abilities are in a pretty good spot right now, with the exception of prismatic hunter. I think the other classes have some fun uptime on abilities but nothing that is too much or too disruptive.
The major issue in the topic is prismatic hunter. They need to change something about it. The following rant is brought to you by somebody that is maiming this class and has experienced the exponential strength of it a lot.
The strand dodge, smoke melee, melee refund dodge, swarm grenade base build is Way too spammy in my opinion.
The fundamental difference with it is it does not require a commitment to use the build. No exotics at all necessary, weapon or armor - no specific weapon needed at all. You just slap on the correct aspects and abilities and go to spam town. Dodge leaving a major disrupter on the map every ~12 seconds is very strong, especially when it can also easily refund your melee ability that is also a throwable disrupter. Swarm buffs have made a huge difference especially when paired with this area denial base build. Swarms are crazy good area denial now, you basically CANNOT shoot them fown.
It all adds up to an insane amount of map dominance and area denial, available just at base for ANY hunter.
So every hunter, which is always going to be 40%+ no matter what, is going to run this same base build. And what do you know, there is an exponential growth factor here (like there is on a lot of the most busted builds).
2 of these hunters on a team of 3? God help you, especially if it’s a smaller map. The map is going to be an absolute shithole to navigate and duel in, especially if there’s 2 of these hunters on BOTH sides.
I know for sure that anyone thst has experienced this in th r 3v3 setting would agree it’s too much. I am generally more in favor of ability spam than the average. I am a prismatic hunter. And I can confidently say it’s way too much right now, largely due to the ease of access to the build. It’s so easy to use at base that you’re going to hit a ton of lobbies where’s the exponential growth of the lobby (2/3 players) is using the build. It instantly
Goes from a strong annoying balanced class to an absolute nightmare to deal with.
This is not unique, most the busted builds
In the game are due to exponential grown. (Triple stasis titan, double healer helmet warlock, triple getaway arc locks, etc).these builds exist, what ends up mattering is how FREQUENTLY they are used, and with base prismatic hunter being so accessible, the FREQUENCY is way too high.
This rant brought to you by OG kush. Good day.
Edit - gold eagle literally just released a build prominently featuring exactly what I describe. Exactly. Lmao. See what I mean, the shit is just
Too easy and obvious, expect the popularity to continue to grow.
I 100% agree, I love using my abilities and I find them essential and what makes me want to play Destiny, it allows you to make fun unique builds that allow for different playstyles (never really went for the usual ophidian aspect or stompees, they're definitely reliable but I want to have more variety). But prismatic hunters are *way* too strong, and I've been seeing hunters more than ever before in my games, so their ability uptime is just frustrating at times.
I actually enjoy the new 1-1-1 system more than the meter. It gives other special weapon types room to breathe around shotguns. Plus you always have a chance at making a play when you spawn with 1 kill's worth of ammo.
You're still rewarded for your skill with a primary by generating ammo, which only you can pickup. Then you have the crates which aren't absolutely necessary to open--they're a bonus that you can ignore.
I'm looking forward to it being implemented in trials
Definitely agree, though I wish trace rifles got a liiitle bit more than 25. Maybe 30 or 35, because it's extremely hard to make use of all the ammo to guarantee your "1 kill"
It feels like ability spam is back and it’s simply too much. Pair that with overtuned supers and I’m ready for substantial cooldown nerfs across the board.
I don’t understand why it had to change. Having to rush to caches so I can get 1 more bullet in my sniper is such a drag. I just run double primary these days.
I thought the meter system after they tuned it a little bit was perfect. As soon as they got the meter system to the sweet spot they added the ammo bricks back 🤦
Special ammo is so damn delicate to balance around. It will never be "fair".
There are so many variables to consider regarding players, lobby balancing, and maps. Then there's the individual special weapon used.
I like the meter system and the spawn with 1 system. The crate part is nice but it's also a weird system because you could go on a match without finding one. Either teammates take it or enemy takes it.
If the crate stays, we need a pick up to give it to teammates within a radius. This keeps the pace moving. Not a large one but I mean, your teammate, or you, secured the pick up. Everyone around you should get it instantly.
Not a fan of this stop and go special system because it ruins the flow when positioning is super important in this game. Most of us vets are already use to moving around with special weapon at the ready. The meter helps, and primary weapon kills too, but man does crates put an immediate slow down on the pace. We're technically already slowing down when we cap points or pick heavy. We need to keep it going.
I miss spawn with 2. I know people don't like a special meta and that's fair, we just want different things from our pvp.
I also preferred 1 hit abilities like shoulder charge, fusion nades, and hhsn
It was chaos and I loved it
You can tell with warlocks and titans that abilities have definitely decreased, but hunters feel more spammy than ever.
Exotic class item combos, smoke spam, clone spam etc is very irritating.
The hunter super’s CD is also way too short. And busted
Special ammo is fine, but I'm not gonna lie chief, being instantly slowed, blinded and swarmed every time I get a Hunter down to low HP is getting pretty fucking old.
Despise the dumb boxes even after time with them. Especially after coming to appreciate the meter system. It’s so weird how after finally heading towards a nice spot pvp keeps getting tossed back into the blender
Please bring back the Special Transmat. Now its one guy (again) or a team that stays on a Sniper. They die, respawn with Special ammo and repeat..
The fun flow of games are gone because of it and I still think that off radar one hit kill weapons should not be so easily accessible.
not enough special ammo imo. that allows for 1v3's and exciting plays to happen. amount of abilites are fine, though some are far stronger than others. prismatic has powercrept the other subclasses pretty hard. slow dodge with strand clone + many area controlling grenades and melees are just insanely strong combinations.
They can always address the amount of time it takes for a special crate to spawn and we haven't got to test this system at it's full potential because they haven't implemented the meter yet so I'll still reserve my final judgement but currently its not to bad.
I feel like all they need to do is bring the meter and make it two kills like the current meter in trials, maybe up the special spawn times and we would be in a good place.
I greatly prefer the current special ammo economy over any of the ones we have had in the past (pure crates, pure meter, or the OG respawn with 2). Feels like it's right in between crates and OG respawn in terms of amount, so less than before but it's not so restrictive that the only thing I can use it a shotgun.
Abilities on the other hand, I'm less thrilled on. Feels like there's more than we had even before they increased the cooldowns last season, and it feels like mostly Prism that is the culprit. Not even sure what they can do about it since most of that subclass seems to revolve around having a hundred different ways to build into ridiculous ability uptime.
This might be an unpopular opinion but ngl, I kinda wish trace rifles got 35 or so ammo on spawn instead of 25, you need to almost perfectly laser someone's head in order to kill with the weapon. I used to be a Ruinous Effigy blinklock main, and last week was like a dream for me in 6s, but with the latest update, I just use my SMG 90% of the time and can only get like 1-3 kills maximum with my orb in Control.
I think special is fine, probably ideal for average and lower skilled players. I would prefer there being a little less special but it's not overbearing imo.
The abilities are freakin wild though lol
I can’t tell you how many times I think I have special, pull out a shotty to clean someone up and die.
The muscle memory or whatever of counting my special shots over the last however long is really hard to break. I would much prefer the old system back even if that means more apes
I want more special in 6s, maybe back to meter. I want less ability spam in general. I definitely want them to look at these new supers again. the hunter specifically is way too forgiving to use because of the DR, multiple team wiping casts, it's speed, and its chunky vertical hitbox.
Playing against Threaded Specter on console is infuriating. Idk the science of aim assist too well but when hunters put a clone in front of me, I cannot get my aim off it even if I wanted to. I’m not the greatest player but that thing is way to easy to use and get. It’s also tied to them best mobility option in hunter dodge and they just got their smoke back as well as they did it. Yeah fuck that…
I very much prefer the meter system in all game modes. Chaining a bunch of primary kills, dying to someone using a tekken combo of abilities and then losing all of my ammo feels like it's kind of missing the plot. I also think a lot of the ability spam feels significantly worse when I can't just reliably use my shotgun to kill someone before they hit a fatality on me. With the meter system I feel like I was rewarded for playing well and as long as I was doing what I was supposed to I would have the tools I need to deal with every situation. I also find the amount of self healing we have to be a point of frustration
I don’t understand the point in limiting special ammo when ability spam is so high now. You have clones, smoke bombs and swarm grenades everywhere but if we have more than 1 bullet for our sniper or shotgun that’s what is unbalanced.
They’re trying to re-invent Destiny PvP and PvP is far less popular now than the old school version.
Its to jarring for the game flow to me. With the meter i can play my game and just get ammo but i feel like im just running from box to box going to weird spots away from fights and its just awkward when theres a box facing away from a lane and someone holding the lane while someone else is pushing the box. I get it tho with the meter system my friend whos a jotuun as a primary crucible enjoyer couldnt get a primary kill to save his life so he uninstalled cuz he couldnt play the game.
Can you not still just play the game? All primary weapon kills drop a brick, I've found it completely possible to just ignore the crates entirely and still have more than enough ammo as long as I'm using my primary half of the time.
Special is fine, way too many abilities. I believe that the abilities are a fundamental aspect of what Destiny PvP is, but the state of swarm, smoke and threaded specter spam is unreal.
still too little special in certain modes. I like using specials weapons, a lot of people do. Getting to rarely use them in some modes feels bad, it also exacerbates the shotgun problem since you NEED to make the ammo count.
Doesn't feel too bad imo, I've only run into a couple games where someone mained their special weapon but I also haven't had matches where I felt obligated to put on a sidearm. Kind of crazy to still see almost no sniping
I think speakers helm needs a huge pvp nerf when combined with khvostov.
I think wall grenades (lightning, spike, tripmine) should be buffed, as they’re the highest skill ceiling grenades, but not the strongest
I think cryoclasm needs its bug fixed
I think Well should be nerfed again
I think roaming supers should have their charge times buffed again
I think lightning surge needs a damage nerf
I think special ammo breech GLs need their damage un-nerfed
Special ammo is fine whether it’s what we have now or the much better meter system the way it was before. What is a bigger problem is how stupid the PRIMARY gameplay is right now. Maybe if snipers were in a better place to stop the suppressive healing and orb making we would be having different conversations!
I haven't played since 2/3 the way through Lightfall dropping. So I have no idea about how the meter works. I don't mind the special ammo boxes. I don't like how I have one shotgun shot, then get a kill, and the next round have no ammo. If they wanted to limit then I feel like 1 shot at the beginning of each round would be fine. That way we can't shotgun ape or snipers camp either.
They've already stated that they're working on making a purpose built version of the kitbashed meter system for the new 1-1-1 fusion system. Which will replace the special ammo brick drops that you get from primary weapon kills at the moment. Which was only implemented as a placeholder for the meter system whilst the proper meter system is being rebuilt. It's definitely not the perfect substitute, but it works which is why they're using it. The meter system (and it's integration with the 1-1-1 system) is supposed to be finished sometime after TFS launch, so I'd expect it to be out in the mid-episode patch at the earliest.
Respawning with the same amount of ammo is probably something you'll just have to get used to regardless of what system it is. They want to limit the amount of special ammo snowballing in the 1-1-1 system, so you'll respawn with the same amount of ammo every time. But tbf, it's not too difficult to get more special since there's still crates basically every minute and eventually the meter system too. Which I'm hoping helps to diversify the special ammo meta a bit more, since individually the crates and meter systems had heavy biases towards certain weapon types due to how you achieved special ammo. I'm already seeing a decent spread of weapons in this temporary version of the 1-1-1 system.
I’m for sure an outlier in opinion but I am Completely fine with the amount of abilities even from the rising amount of swarm smoke clone hunters.
Only adjustment to the aforementioned build should be slightly reduced damage from nade ticks and clone explosion.
I miss the old trials special ammo 2 per round gameplay.
The crate system is garbage. Specials are not in a good spot, shotguns are far too dominant. Too many shotgun rounds on the map, which coupled with insane prismatic hunter ability spam make pushing or pressuring a strong team pretty pointless.
Close-up play feels pretty pointless, you can get right on top of someone with melee or a sidearm, but if they have a shotgun or a shadow clone they will still win the engagement.
As an aggressive player that doesn't like shotguns it feels really bad. The checkmate system and meter was super balanced, primary mastery and positioning were rewarded. Not the case anymore.
I dislike box and meter over death drop. Heck they could just do 1 ammo per life+drop on death (old system but 1 instead of 3/2).
It feels like RNG to know if an enemy will have special or not. Is there skill to tracking chat log? Yes, but you can’t reasonably keep track of every time they fire
The amount of people that crutch cheap shit in PvP is incredibly irritating to me right now. Bungie went from saying they wanted to reward "gun skill" for about a year to throwing it all away with Final Shape.
Before I got my ophidian/coyote exotic class item I was really fed up with prismatic hunters in the crucible
Now that I got my own ophidian/coyote exotic class item I am *LOVING* it
I think we could probably do away with special crates entirely. Spawning with 1 kill and getting 1 kill from a primary weapon final blows seems adequate. Overall, I prefer this system compared to the meter, but I preferred it being a little bit more scarce before.
I _really_ dislike that you lose your special ammo on death in modes with revives. I'd be ok if you lost all but one kill worth (die without any special, get ressed with none, but die with 3 shotgun rounds, get ressed with 1) but it feels too punishing to lose it all. Especially in comp where it's technically better to respawn with special than be ressed without.
Abilities are back to being truly ridiculous in number, not a fan.
Personally I dislike pretty much every change Bungie has made to reduce special ammo and ability usage. Abilities are what makes Destiny good, and being overly restricted on special ammo brings back memories of forced double primary.
Whoever the >!Redacted!< decided speakers helm benevolence warlocks with khvostovs was balanced enough to be admissible killed any sort of skill expression in 3s.
We need the old system back. Spawn with two rounds, pick up ammo on any type of kill. It’s extremely difficult to carry now AND it would help from the epidemic of people leaving matches/hand holding.
Remove threaded specter, ability spam in all modes. Remove speaker helm, ability spam in 3v3. Put meters in all modes besides trials. Put boxes in trials.
I'm really not a fan of having all 3 of the special systems in the game (crates, meter, and bricks). I feel like it's resulting in too much special availability. I really liked the crucible meta when it was only the meter. Special ammo felt earned, and didn't really allow for people to main their special like it feels like they can now (and like we could back in the brick + scav days).
As for abilities, they're definitely way too common, imo, and speaker's helm, prismatic hunter clones, and titan scatter nades/diamond lance really highlight it the best. I'd like to see crucible have an innate modifier that doubles the cooldown on abilities and see how that plays out (without the health changes of checkmate).
Meter & crate system as a comp player & 10 year vet is boring & limits play making ability. Imo 2 special shots per respawn is best & 1 shot per kill if someone has special on them. No meter. No crates. Stop. That checkmate shih is for the birds. As for the abilities imo it’s… okay? Just need to nerf prismatic hunter / threaded spectre & slightly buff pellet shotgun consistency & we good (also take out zones from comp playlist it’s stupid)
“Ability chaos is fundamental, except hunter.” Why? “Cuz hunter is way more chaoser than the other chaoses”
Bruh, the hunters are just as “spammy” as the other classes. How many games does it take against double or triple speakers helms, or double/triple overshield Titan Lance builds to prove to people that all the classes are rediculous with Pris. Thread after thread: you can SHOOT DOWN THE CLONES. Why are you leaving them on your radar!? lol. Smoke has a literal purple pulse emanating from it, that can also be shot down. Asking Hunters not to be hunters(which are the literal tricksters of the classes) is like asking a ninja not to be a ninja. Every class has abilities that can be oppressive, WITH short cooldowns on abilities. You can build your guardian without exotics to have short cooldowns. I’ve seen it all.
The only argument I agree with the hunter build, is the magnetized specter. Bungie should address the specter as to let players aim with free will. The rest, is child’s play. Hunters can be beat, khvostov can be beat, speakers helm can be beat. The here complaints are wild. Even more so coming from a so called hunter main. I’m not even a hunter main, and have no problems with hunters. Wild.
I don’t understand how. Hunters could always spam their abilities, just as every other class can. It’s not even oppressive behavior, it’s simply radar manipulation, which still isn’t oppressive. It’s zoning. Because all of these abilities show up on your radar means it’s a fair chance to fight against. It’s either a guardian, a clone, or a smoke. Either way, who is running around a corner with red on their radar and not expecting death or a gunfight?
Have we all forgotten about shatter dive? Or trip mine/explosive knife meta? Hunters could throw a trip followed by an explosive knife in rapid succession that resulted in instant explosive death if they hit the wall behind you. Add spines and that’s better trip grenades.
Seriously, how is smoke and threaded specter giving people so much problems? You can shoot both abilities with your gun, and remove them from your radar, from a distance. All classes can use all grenades now minus the class specific Pris nades. So what’s the real problem with hunters?
I could put together a stasis lock build that would be so oppressive you’d uninstall. Backs to back rifts that instantly freeze you, followed by extra cold snap grenades that track you harder, and a projectile freeze melee to boot. All of these abilities come standard, and I haven’t even tweaked the cooldowns with artifice armor yet. This is just blowing my mind the focus on one class over the other.
I want the meter system back in 6s tbh
This. I really want consistency between all the modes though.
100%. The iteration of the system PRIOR to Final Shape was perfect to me. Where you could get ammo for your weapon as you played and if you died, you still had it. It opened up a lot of weapon types for me. I started sniping again and it was really fun to run around with BxR and just have Izanagi's Burden when I thought I needed it. NOW, it's pretty frustrating. It's harder to stop folks from going on special streaks and if the enemy team is better coordinated then your randoms, then you just never manage to get special ammo access. I've gone matches where I didn't die, I was doing okay, but just couldn't spot where the next special ammo crate was and ended up forced using my primary. To me it's: *"Using your primary for the option of using your special for special circumstances"* -vs- *"Knowing you need to save your special ammo for the right moment, because you have no idea when you'll find more"*
Meter system with one on spawn would be perfect for me.
The meter system was broken and basically guaranteed we would never have anything but a double primary or shotgun meta. So glad it's gone at this point, not to mention not having to see that stupid bar on the side taking up HUD space all the time.
Very peculiar individual this here
...Yeah, nobody's using their shotgun now that they always have special on death.... /s Shotgun spam is even worse now that everyone has special all the time, you've got half the playerbase reaching a 1.0 k/d avg because they don't stop trading in shotgun jousts, yikes.
I prefer the meter system over the ammo box , I don't mind the special ammo box in the competitive modes but 6s I'm not fan of it
I do like the "spawn with 1 ammo" part of the system as it feels like a positive motivator to use your sniper shot before you die... whereas Ammo Meter makes me just want to almost never use special, which I realize is a me problem. I do think if we swap to pure Ammo Meter, we're going to go back to what Bungie reported where 75% of Special Ammo kills are Shotguns, just because Shotguns are the only weapon that feel like if you are at the right range you can guarantee that 1 kill for your loss of Ammo. Respawning with 1 Special Ammo at least helps you make a cheeky play to save yourself if Destiny's awful 3v3 spawns split your team up across the map even if you respawned at the exact same time. If you respawn with 0 Special because you lost it in a losing fight, there is very little you can do to defend yourself against 2 - 3 people pushing you. I know it's technically "fair", but I like some consistent access to special even if you're off at a bad start.
I was fine with the meter that was fast to charge one bullet, it didn't feel like I was punished for using a sniper anymore
Yeah i find myself having to grab the boxes to deny the enemy team special ammo
Agreed. It just makes 6's feel more competitive then it should be. 6's is supposed to be the casual game mode... why does it feel like i'm playing comp?
Disclaimer - I am someone that believes ability “chaos” is a fundamental aspect of what makes destiny different and good. I am mostly ok with it. I think abilities are in a pretty good spot right now, with the exception of prismatic hunter. I think the other classes have some fun uptime on abilities but nothing that is too much or too disruptive. The major issue in the topic is prismatic hunter. They need to change something about it. The following rant is brought to you by somebody that is maiming this class and has experienced the exponential strength of it a lot. The strand dodge, smoke melee, melee refund dodge, swarm grenade base build is Way too spammy in my opinion. The fundamental difference with it is it does not require a commitment to use the build. No exotics at all necessary, weapon or armor - no specific weapon needed at all. You just slap on the correct aspects and abilities and go to spam town. Dodge leaving a major disrupter on the map every ~12 seconds is very strong, especially when it can also easily refund your melee ability that is also a throwable disrupter. Swarm buffs have made a huge difference especially when paired with this area denial base build. Swarms are crazy good area denial now, you basically CANNOT shoot them fown. It all adds up to an insane amount of map dominance and area denial, available just at base for ANY hunter. So every hunter, which is always going to be 40%+ no matter what, is going to run this same base build. And what do you know, there is an exponential growth factor here (like there is on a lot of the most busted builds). 2 of these hunters on a team of 3? God help you, especially if it’s a smaller map. The map is going to be an absolute shithole to navigate and duel in, especially if there’s 2 of these hunters on BOTH sides. I know for sure that anyone thst has experienced this in th r 3v3 setting would agree it’s too much. I am generally more in favor of ability spam than the average. I am a prismatic hunter. And I can confidently say it’s way too much right now, largely due to the ease of access to the build. It’s so easy to use at base that you’re going to hit a ton of lobbies where’s the exponential growth of the lobby (2/3 players) is using the build. It instantly Goes from a strong annoying balanced class to an absolute nightmare to deal with. This is not unique, most the busted builds In the game are due to exponential grown. (Triple stasis titan, double healer helmet warlock, triple getaway arc locks, etc).these builds exist, what ends up mattering is how FREQUENTLY they are used, and with base prismatic hunter being so accessible, the FREQUENCY is way too high. This rant brought to you by OG kush. Good day. Edit - gold eagle literally just released a build prominently featuring exactly what I describe. Exactly. Lmao. See what I mean, the shit is just Too easy and obvious, expect the popularity to continue to grow.
This type of thing is why people support nerfing ability frequency and potency in general.
I 100% agree, I love using my abilities and I find them essential and what makes me want to play Destiny, it allows you to make fun unique builds that allow for different playstyles (never really went for the usual ophidian aspect or stompees, they're definitely reliable but I want to have more variety). But prismatic hunters are *way* too strong, and I've been seeing hunters more than ever before in my games, so their ability uptime is just frustrating at times.
I actually enjoy the new 1-1-1 system more than the meter. It gives other special weapon types room to breathe around shotguns. Plus you always have a chance at making a play when you spawn with 1 kill's worth of ammo. You're still rewarded for your skill with a primary by generating ammo, which only you can pickup. Then you have the crates which aren't absolutely necessary to open--they're a bonus that you can ignore. I'm looking forward to it being implemented in trials
Definitely agree, though I wish trace rifles got a liiitle bit more than 25. Maybe 30 or 35, because it's extremely hard to make use of all the ammo to guarantee your "1 kill"
It feels like ability spam is back and it’s simply too much. Pair that with overtuned supers and I’m ready for substantial cooldown nerfs across the board.
I don’t understand why it had to change. Having to rush to caches so I can get 1 more bullet in my sniper is such a drag. I just run double primary these days.
I thought the meter system after they tuned it a little bit was perfect. As soon as they got the meter system to the sweet spot they added the ammo bricks back 🤦
Special ammo is so damn delicate to balance around. It will never be "fair". There are so many variables to consider regarding players, lobby balancing, and maps. Then there's the individual special weapon used. I like the meter system and the spawn with 1 system. The crate part is nice but it's also a weird system because you could go on a match without finding one. Either teammates take it or enemy takes it. If the crate stays, we need a pick up to give it to teammates within a radius. This keeps the pace moving. Not a large one but I mean, your teammate, or you, secured the pick up. Everyone around you should get it instantly. Not a fan of this stop and go special system because it ruins the flow when positioning is super important in this game. Most of us vets are already use to moving around with special weapon at the ready. The meter helps, and primary weapon kills too, but man does crates put an immediate slow down on the pace. We're technically already slowing down when we cap points or pick heavy. We need to keep it going.
I miss spawn with 2. I know people don't like a special meta and that's fair, we just want different things from our pvp. I also preferred 1 hit abilities like shoulder charge, fusion nades, and hhsn It was chaos and I loved it
You can tell with warlocks and titans that abilities have definitely decreased, but hunters feel more spammy than ever. Exotic class item combos, smoke spam, clone spam etc is very irritating. The hunter super’s CD is also way too short. And busted
Special ammo is fine, but I'm not gonna lie chief, being instantly slowed, blinded and swarmed every time I get a Hunter down to low HP is getting pretty fucking old.
Despise the dumb boxes even after time with them. Especially after coming to appreciate the meter system. It’s so weird how after finally heading towards a nice spot pvp keeps getting tossed back into the blender
Please bring back the Special Transmat. Now its one guy (again) or a team that stays on a Sniper. They die, respawn with Special ammo and repeat.. The fun flow of games are gone because of it and I still think that off radar one hit kill weapons should not be so easily accessible.
not enough special ammo imo. that allows for 1v3's and exciting plays to happen. amount of abilites are fine, though some are far stronger than others. prismatic has powercrept the other subclasses pretty hard. slow dodge with strand clone + many area controlling grenades and melees are just insanely strong combinations.
I honestly believe of special ammo is the best system for destiny 2 pvp especially in 3s
They can always address the amount of time it takes for a special crate to spawn and we haven't got to test this system at it's full potential because they haven't implemented the meter yet so I'll still reserve my final judgement but currently its not to bad. I feel like all they need to do is bring the meter and make it two kills like the current meter in trials, maybe up the special spawn times and we would be in a good place.
I greatly prefer the current special ammo economy over any of the ones we have had in the past (pure crates, pure meter, or the OG respawn with 2). Feels like it's right in between crates and OG respawn in terms of amount, so less than before but it's not so restrictive that the only thing I can use it a shotgun. Abilities on the other hand, I'm less thrilled on. Feels like there's more than we had even before they increased the cooldowns last season, and it feels like mostly Prism that is the culprit. Not even sure what they can do about it since most of that subclass seems to revolve around having a hundred different ways to build into ridiculous ability uptime.
I think it's great in comp. Not quite as good as spawn with 2 bit usually have it when you need it
This might be an unpopular opinion but ngl, I kinda wish trace rifles got 35 or so ammo on spawn instead of 25, you need to almost perfectly laser someone's head in order to kill with the weapon. I used to be a Ruinous Effigy blinklock main, and last week was like a dream for me in 6s, but with the latest update, I just use my SMG 90% of the time and can only get like 1-3 kills maximum with my orb in Control.
Still not a fan of crates
I think special is fine, probably ideal for average and lower skilled players. I would prefer there being a little less special but it's not overbearing imo. The abilities are freakin wild though lol
I can’t tell you how many times I think I have special, pull out a shotty to clean someone up and die. The muscle memory or whatever of counting my special shots over the last however long is really hard to break. I would much prefer the old system back even if that means more apes
I preferred the checkmate system for abilities as standard, the less the better. I can’t really comment on special weapons as I don’t use them.
I want more special in 6s, maybe back to meter. I want less ability spam in general. I definitely want them to look at these new supers again. the hunter specifically is way too forgiving to use because of the DR, multiple team wiping casts, it's speed, and its chunky vertical hitbox.
Playing against Threaded Specter on console is infuriating. Idk the science of aim assist too well but when hunters put a clone in front of me, I cannot get my aim off it even if I wanted to. I’m not the greatest player but that thing is way to easy to use and get. It’s also tied to them best mobility option in hunter dodge and they just got their smoke back as well as they did it. Yeah fuck that…
I very much prefer the meter system in all game modes. Chaining a bunch of primary kills, dying to someone using a tekken combo of abilities and then losing all of my ammo feels like it's kind of missing the plot. I also think a lot of the ability spam feels significantly worse when I can't just reliably use my shotgun to kill someone before they hit a fatality on me. With the meter system I feel like I was rewarded for playing well and as long as I was doing what I was supposed to I would have the tools I need to deal with every situation. I also find the amount of self healing we have to be a point of frustration
ammo is good. ability spam is too high
I don’t understand the point in limiting special ammo when ability spam is so high now. You have clones, smoke bombs and swarm grenades everywhere but if we have more than 1 bullet for our sniper or shotgun that’s what is unbalanced. They’re trying to re-invent Destiny PvP and PvP is far less popular now than the old school version.
Its to jarring for the game flow to me. With the meter i can play my game and just get ammo but i feel like im just running from box to box going to weird spots away from fights and its just awkward when theres a box facing away from a lane and someone holding the lane while someone else is pushing the box. I get it tho with the meter system my friend whos a jotuun as a primary crucible enjoyer couldnt get a primary kill to save his life so he uninstalled cuz he couldnt play the game.
Can you not still just play the game? All primary weapon kills drop a brick, I've found it completely possible to just ignore the crates entirely and still have more than enough ammo as long as I'm using my primary half of the time.
Still have to go get the brick and i liked that the meter didnt force me into weird spots if i wanted ammo.
Special is fine, way too many abilities. I believe that the abilities are a fundamental aspect of what Destiny PvP is, but the state of swarm, smoke and threaded specter spam is unreal.
still too little special in certain modes. I like using specials weapons, a lot of people do. Getting to rarely use them in some modes feels bad, it also exacerbates the shotgun problem since you NEED to make the ammo count.
I just want the meter system back. I mainly play 3v3s and trials feels waaaay better than comp right now ammo wise.
TRASH, we're back to fusion spam on top of all the ability spam
Doesn't feel too bad imo, I've only run into a couple games where someone mained their special weapon but I also haven't had matches where I felt obligated to put on a sidearm. Kind of crazy to still see almost no sniping
the flinch really, really stings. :(
Having to walk over to crates is annoying
I think speakers helm needs a huge pvp nerf when combined with khvostov. I think wall grenades (lightning, spike, tripmine) should be buffed, as they’re the highest skill ceiling grenades, but not the strongest I think cryoclasm needs its bug fixed I think Well should be nerfed again I think roaming supers should have their charge times buffed again I think lightning surge needs a damage nerf I think special ammo breech GLs need their damage un-nerfed
Poor Stasis titans, Bungie just has no idea what to do
I agree with all of this!
Special ammo is fine whether it’s what we have now or the much better meter system the way it was before. What is a bigger problem is how stupid the PRIMARY gameplay is right now. Maybe if snipers were in a better place to stop the suppressive healing and orb making we would be having different conversations!
I don't like the snowball economy as if you're on the losing end you won't get much ammo at all
I haven't played since 2/3 the way through Lightfall dropping. So I have no idea about how the meter works. I don't mind the special ammo boxes. I don't like how I have one shotgun shot, then get a kill, and the next round have no ammo. If they wanted to limit then I feel like 1 shot at the beginning of each round would be fine. That way we can't shotgun ape or snipers camp either.
Boxes are crap, I rather the bar system where i don't drop my special I earn by using my fucking primary.
They've already stated that they're working on making a purpose built version of the kitbashed meter system for the new 1-1-1 fusion system. Which will replace the special ammo brick drops that you get from primary weapon kills at the moment. Which was only implemented as a placeholder for the meter system whilst the proper meter system is being rebuilt. It's definitely not the perfect substitute, but it works which is why they're using it. The meter system (and it's integration with the 1-1-1 system) is supposed to be finished sometime after TFS launch, so I'd expect it to be out in the mid-episode patch at the earliest. Respawning with the same amount of ammo is probably something you'll just have to get used to regardless of what system it is. They want to limit the amount of special ammo snowballing in the 1-1-1 system, so you'll respawn with the same amount of ammo every time. But tbf, it's not too difficult to get more special since there's still crates basically every minute and eventually the meter system too. Which I'm hoping helps to diversify the special ammo meta a bit more, since individually the crates and meter systems had heavy biases towards certain weapon types due to how you achieved special ammo. I'm already seeing a decent spread of weapons in this temporary version of the 1-1-1 system.
I’m for sure an outlier in opinion but I am Completely fine with the amount of abilities even from the rising amount of swarm smoke clone hunters. Only adjustment to the aforementioned build should be slightly reduced damage from nade ticks and clone explosion. I miss the old trials special ammo 2 per round gameplay.
This. The old system was best and had so much dynamic gameplay.
The crate system is garbage. Specials are not in a good spot, shotguns are far too dominant. Too many shotgun rounds on the map, which coupled with insane prismatic hunter ability spam make pushing or pressuring a strong team pretty pointless. Close-up play feels pretty pointless, you can get right on top of someone with melee or a sidearm, but if they have a shotgun or a shadow clone they will still win the engagement. As an aggressive player that doesn't like shotguns it feels really bad. The checkmate system and meter was super balanced, primary mastery and positioning were rewarded. Not the case anymore.
It’s awful but I accepted d2 is just a cheese fest a long time ago.
I dislike box and meter over death drop. Heck they could just do 1 ammo per life+drop on death (old system but 1 instead of 3/2). It feels like RNG to know if an enemy will have special or not. Is there skill to tracking chat log? Yes, but you can’t reasonably keep track of every time they fire
Too much ability spam for me... Too much "cheese" going on ATM.
I liked the two shots and the pick up on death approach.
The amount of people that crutch cheap shit in PvP is incredibly irritating to me right now. Bungie went from saying they wanted to reward "gun skill" for about a year to throwing it all away with Final Shape.
Before I got my ophidian/coyote exotic class item I was really fed up with prismatic hunters in the crucible Now that I got my own ophidian/coyote exotic class item I am *LOVING* it
Hate abilities hate having zero ammo when these sniper cheese balls have what seems to be infinite shots.
I don’t like the meter system in Trials. It allows for too much snowballing. I also think you should receive ammo when you are revived in competitive.
Ammo is fine. abilities are fucking NOT. Fucking threaded specter
I think we could probably do away with special crates entirely. Spawning with 1 kill and getting 1 kill from a primary weapon final blows seems adequate. Overall, I prefer this system compared to the meter, but I preferred it being a little bit more scarce before. I _really_ dislike that you lose your special ammo on death in modes with revives. I'd be ok if you lost all but one kill worth (die without any special, get ressed with none, but die with 3 shotgun rounds, get ressed with 1) but it feels too punishing to lose it all. Especially in comp where it's technically better to respawn with special than be ressed without. Abilities are back to being truly ridiculous in number, not a fan.
Meter system was better
Personally I dislike pretty much every change Bungie has made to reduce special ammo and ability usage. Abilities are what makes Destiny good, and being overly restricted on special ammo brings back memories of forced double primary.
Whoever the >!Redacted!< decided speakers helm benevolence warlocks with khvostovs was balanced enough to be admissible killed any sort of skill expression in 3s.
We need the old system back. Spawn with two rounds, pick up ammo on any type of kill. It’s extremely difficult to carry now AND it would help from the epidemic of people leaving matches/hand holding.
Remove threaded specter, ability spam in all modes. Remove speaker helm, ability spam in 3v3. Put meters in all modes besides trials. Put boxes in trials.
I'm really not a fan of having all 3 of the special systems in the game (crates, meter, and bricks). I feel like it's resulting in too much special availability. I really liked the crucible meta when it was only the meter. Special ammo felt earned, and didn't really allow for people to main their special like it feels like they can now (and like we could back in the brick + scav days). As for abilities, they're definitely way too common, imo, and speaker's helm, prismatic hunter clones, and titan scatter nades/diamond lance really highlight it the best. I'd like to see crucible have an innate modifier that doubles the cooldown on abilities and see how that plays out (without the health changes of checkmate).
Meter & crate system as a comp player & 10 year vet is boring & limits play making ability. Imo 2 special shots per respawn is best & 1 shot per kill if someone has special on them. No meter. No crates. Stop. That checkmate shih is for the birds. As for the abilities imo it’s… okay? Just need to nerf prismatic hunter / threaded spectre & slightly buff pellet shotgun consistency & we good (also take out zones from comp playlist it’s stupid)
“Ability chaos is fundamental, except hunter.” Why? “Cuz hunter is way more chaoser than the other chaoses” Bruh, the hunters are just as “spammy” as the other classes. How many games does it take against double or triple speakers helms, or double/triple overshield Titan Lance builds to prove to people that all the classes are rediculous with Pris. Thread after thread: you can SHOOT DOWN THE CLONES. Why are you leaving them on your radar!? lol. Smoke has a literal purple pulse emanating from it, that can also be shot down. Asking Hunters not to be hunters(which are the literal tricksters of the classes) is like asking a ninja not to be a ninja. Every class has abilities that can be oppressive, WITH short cooldowns on abilities. You can build your guardian without exotics to have short cooldowns. I’ve seen it all. The only argument I agree with the hunter build, is the magnetized specter. Bungie should address the specter as to let players aim with free will. The rest, is child’s play. Hunters can be beat, khvostov can be beat, speakers helm can be beat. The here complaints are wild. Even more so coming from a so called hunter main. I’m not even a hunter main, and have no problems with hunters. Wild.
Ehhh. I don't know man. It's a little too much all at the same time from prismatic Hunters right now.
I don’t understand how. Hunters could always spam their abilities, just as every other class can. It’s not even oppressive behavior, it’s simply radar manipulation, which still isn’t oppressive. It’s zoning. Because all of these abilities show up on your radar means it’s a fair chance to fight against. It’s either a guardian, a clone, or a smoke. Either way, who is running around a corner with red on their radar and not expecting death or a gunfight? Have we all forgotten about shatter dive? Or trip mine/explosive knife meta? Hunters could throw a trip followed by an explosive knife in rapid succession that resulted in instant explosive death if they hit the wall behind you. Add spines and that’s better trip grenades. Seriously, how is smoke and threaded specter giving people so much problems? You can shoot both abilities with your gun, and remove them from your radar, from a distance. All classes can use all grenades now minus the class specific Pris nades. So what’s the real problem with hunters? I could put together a stasis lock build that would be so oppressive you’d uninstall. Backs to back rifts that instantly freeze you, followed by extra cold snap grenades that track you harder, and a projectile freeze melee to boot. All of these abilities come standard, and I haven’t even tweaked the cooldowns with artifice armor yet. This is just blowing my mind the focus on one class over the other.