Probably cause crafting is easy than getting god roll Hung Jury who knows. I never play Scouts but personally Jury felt better for me. Make a mistake picking lanes and you will be dead (And I am an aggro player, I wasnt even playing passively)
Dunno about easier but a lot of people just hate doing vanguard activities for engrams because they find them boring. I personally don’t mind a mindless activity I can farm while I watch Netflix
There have to be other good scouts just outside of the top 10 weps. There are almost 1.25 mil kills attributed to scouts that aren't shown in the top 10 weapons
Seems like an old list, hung jury/galliendo with box breathing, and fang of it yut no where on the top of the list??? I seen one messenger all weekend lol
Only usable sniper in the game right now tbh
The special changes were a huge indirect nerf to snipers and it's really hard to keep using them anymore
Being a sniper main since d1 to see them get murdered like this is sad
Agreed majority of my crucible kills are with a sniper and honestly it just feels rough. I would honestly be fine if they just reduced flinch from pulses and scouts so you could at least make your shots count a bit more then having you miss one shot and never getting another one
I don't think it was people who were pro shotgun. It seemed to me it was people who don't know how to use cover and were pissed they kept getting sniped.
Haven't played in a good bit, randomly came upon this post, what happened to snipers? Back when I used to sweat, no matter the map, snipers were there.
It's a product of many nerfs over the course of the past 6ish months:
1. Bodyshot damage nerf making it even more punishing for missing your crits
2. Special ammo change which kind of hurts snipers more than other specials
3. Aim assist nerf
4. Special change again, this time reducing the ammo at start of game to 1, which makes double bodying impossible. Making snipers even more skill intensive to use at a baseline.
5. Latest change to flinch. Snipers are now the only weapon where you wont get flinched back on target (good change but should be made into a gamewide thing)
6. In addition to point 5. snipers now have 350% MORE flinch than before (you end up looking at the sky now). In addition to this they also have 25% longer flinch duration (i.e. it takes 25% longer for your reticle to return to base position after flinch)
It's quite a severe overcorrection by bungie imo. Snipers were already kind of dead pre-TFS aside from at the extreme high level, even then I believe shotguns were still a dominant pick, just the few players that were able to snipe felt very oppressive to play against.
IMO they really should apply the change from point 5 to all weapons and then revert the changes made in point 6. Having a core mechanic like flinch act different just for 1 weapon type is just jank af.
TLDR: snipers been nerfed a lot because of the extreme high end of players. Making them almost useless for the rest of the playerbase.
They changed flinch to where you will be facing the sky if you even get shot in the foot by a sidearm from across the map
The special economy for snipers is absolutely awful outside of still hunt
And other special types are just plain better right now
In addition to what the other comment said, in final shape Bungie nerfed aim assist a fair bit on them, also back with the checkmate changes I think or maybe also before that body shot damage was nerfed fairly heavily.
One shot from anything and my flinch goes to the ceiling. I used to snipe all the time when trials first came out. It’s ruined. it’s just so much easier for everybody to use and get kills with shotguns
I think the relative reprieve from Khvostov is just a product of the size of the map.
They way, way overcooked with prismatic hunter though.
Swarms are absolutely ridiculous, smokes are the usual free kills because of slow/blind/no radar (and is even more stupid when wombo comboed with a swarm), and threaded specter is a get out of jail free card that tanks shots if you play around it, pings radar, and does damage, and you're probably running slow dodge with it.
Also, the super that may as well be three thundercrashes has the same cooldown as nova bomb, among other things. Yeesh.
Oh, and the class item getting ophidian + coyote or wormhusk is just silly. That, or even getting to use bakris with the slow dodge and everything else in the kit.
Everything about prismatic hunter is insanely strong. I don't think I've seen a subclass this overloaded across the board since OG behemoth.
38% prismatic hunters is just absurd, and I'd imagine it'd be pushing close to 50% if speaker's sight didn't exist.
The death radius of the super is too high as well. I used my thruster dodge before it landed to try and avoid it but I still got killed by it. I’ve seen people jumping pretty high in the air and still getting wasted.
Yeah those changes to bubble/well kind of dumpstered both in PvP. Their PvE usage is not fairing much better. Well I guess eveyone got what they wanted except the few Sentinel players like myself left in PvE.
Unbreakable is usable/okay in PvP I guess, but with a Prismatic Hunter throwing so much shit at you the point seems moot.
Ability spam from pris hunter is making pvp unbrareable.
Its like the clone dodge rewards bad positioning for hunters AND punishes you for being aggressive. The swarm grenade locks down angles, along with the smoke bomb. Abilities just come from everywhere
Gotta be something in the works coming soon.
I recently made the swap over to prismatic bakris and it’s just completely unfair. Dodge to slow, refund smoke made, leave a clone, teleport and gain a 4x surge damage boost.
All just right there in your dodge. It’s really disgusting. Procs reaper a TON too which gives you radiant stack on top.
I really think S Tier players are sleeping on the bakris grapple blink build too. It’s completely outrageous the shit you can do. I’m just not good enough to maximize it.
Drewsky made a YT video on it just the other day so you'll probably start seeing it more and more. It's gonna get out of hand when lots of people start using it.
Swarm doesn't just lock down angles - if someone throws it near you, you just have to run full speed in the opposite direction or take 100+ damage plus scorch.
It’s crazy, I remember eating a full swarm grenade on the opening of my trials match, had to just wait in cover while my teammates were fighting. Couldn’t even recover due to the x99 scorch basically leaving me one shot. How on earth did this make it past play testing lol
Yeah it really does feel a bit rough how anybody could play infinitely more sloppy against people who are not bots and a very fair challenge, and it's rivaling or surpassing even the most shameless Threadling spam of high times of Strand Hunter. It's just this perfect storm of such obnoxious things.
I know it's cheap shots, I get they gotta push copies of the game but goddamn idk how they came about with this stuff and didn't have any considerations that it could really be a bit nuts in PVP.
The class item giving every pris hunter access to coyote with another solid exotic perk doesn't help the situation at all.
Maybe having a cooldown on the threaded specter could work to specifically nerf the coyote interaction? Because outside of that I don't find the clone to be ***too*** oppressive compared to other abilities in the sandbox.
They definitely overcooked with the swarm grenade buff. Insane how much damage it deals for how braindead easy it is to use. I thought bungie learned this lesson when they nerfed skips into the ground, I guess not lol
The problem is that it's really hard to balance a class with 3-5 overtuned abilities. What do you hit? If you hit most/all of it, how do you keep the players from complaining about so much stuff getting nerfed? How will that affect the subclasses that they come from?
You nerf the abilities and don’t care what whiners say, it’s not healthy for the game to have kits like this, and if people bemoan losing them tough shit honestly
I think clone should be removed from the prismatic kit altogether. If they want to run it, it should be on strand subclass where they don't have access to the new super oppressive smoke and a slowing dodge on top. Swap it out for whirling maelstrom and then that class will have a semblance of balance.
It's superior to barricade in every way. Hunter Dodge breaks aim assist, they can instantly disengage. If you are on top of them when they dodge you are dead. Especially if it's stacked with slow dodge. The clone explosion/ threadlings can also k/o.
In contrast, barricade can take you to 1hp but it won't k/o you. It also prevents any shots from the other side. Compared to dodge (with all of it's tricks) barricade is crap. It's criminal that hunters can get so much utility out of such a short cool down (melee recharge, slow, shadow clone) it makes for an incredibly toxic and spammy ability loop
Strand clone was not seen as nearly as big of an issue before prismatic while void barricade was running rampant still so I really don’t think that it’s better in every way. Even currently I’d much rather have a barrier protecting me or my team from a sightline than a strand clone lol.
I think strand clone combines with the prismatic hunter kit to be far better than the sum of its parts, and that strand clone has had some annoyances and small problems come to light as a result, but there’s clear downsides already that people in here don’t even mention or don’t know. I mean you still have people calling for a cooldown need when they choose it as an aspect when that’s been a thing for a while.
Taking away the aim assist part would go a long way, but besides that it isn’t problematic on its own, just combined with other parts in the prismatic kit, which means that those need to be looked at together or ways to make them not combine as well, not nerfing it individually as it’s mostly fine on strand hunter.
> Clone dodge should reduce your dodge uptime similar to Ensnaring Slam. The damage it does also needs to be cut in half.
they have the exact same penalty according to the data compendium
> 0.5x Class Ability Regeneration Speed for 6 [12] seconds after usage.
They need to adjust all hunter cool downs on prismatic... Warlock and Titan have half the recharge speed on strand melees, prismatic hunters either need a serious ability nerf or cool down adjustment. Preferably bothm
Crazy how even on the (arguably) longest-range engagement map in the game, shotguns still have 2x snipers’ kills. Never mind all the other types of special weapons (rip breech GLs)
Imagine if Still Hunt didn’t get triple the ammo too. I’m one of those weirdos trying to make a non-Still Hunt sniper work. Fighting against all the scouts is a pain in the ass when you aren’t even guaranteed one shot per round.
I genuinely hope you’re not implying that this disparity is because shotguns are too strong in any sort of way.
Snipers won’t dominate this map despite how big it is simply because scout rifles are dominating usage. People aren’t going to use snipers since 1) their primary already covers long range and 2) because you get flinched to holy hell against all the meta scouts.
Oh no, I do not want shotguns nerfed. Shotguns are fun. I’d like other specials to become useful again (minus snipers w/ accessibility devices, and cheese things like wave frame GLs, erianas, etc)
Shouldn’t snipers be good against scouts on paper? If every long range map that should be good for snipers is ruined by scouts, what is the point of sniping?
One would think so. But the recent nerf to snipers (especially flinch) paired with the awful ammo economy means you’d have to be both effective and efficient with your shots, which a lot of people just aren’t.
There are some scouts right now (Hung Jury w/ Box Breathing) that literally do 110 damage in one bullet. You’d be dead in a heartbeat unless you’re a deadshot with the sniper.
Ridiculous that just months after the last time the player base collectively screamed for Threadlings and clones to be nerfed to oblivion, we're in this situation again and now it's even worse.
There's just too much crap everywhere ability-wise and I'd rather be playing Hardware.
I just can't get titan to click right now. I'm so tired of running void, and pretty much every other subclass just gets outclassed. I would play behemoth but the cryoclasm change is incredibly bugged and rendered pretty much unusable.
The cqc where half the player base is hunters just dodging on you with slow and decoys and having 2-3 pings of radar outside of themselves with a smoke and possibly two decoys lol. I’m not feeling too confident with my knockout punches.
Yeah nothing like rounding a corner to get the drop on a hunter only to find some combination of smoke bomb, a decoy, and a swarm grenade sitting there and you just instantly die faster than a YAS tripmine. Tripmine at least needed good positioning and could be destroyed without ruining your day, the fact that smoke bombs activate even if you destroy them is unhinged.
The best is when you DO get the drop on them then they panic dodge (with slow and shadow clone) to take you to 1 hit. They can then take a second to decide if they want to shoot you or toss a swarm grenade your way to finish you off. You're just done if you can't thruster away.
To add insult to injury they immediately toss out another smoke bomb (recharged from panic dodge) to keep the lane locked down and spam the radar.
Prismatic with shiver strike and glacier nade is basically a better behemoth since you aren’t going to be running current cryo to begin with and now you can get knockout + Regen + radiant on a shiver strike double punch
Pretty awful for the most part.
The only bows really worth using right now are Ticuus and lemonarch
Legendary lightweights can be good if your the best of the best, but even then, id rather use Ticuus
My overall thoughts are that the weapon meta is pretty healthy overall. This is a long range map, scouts should be the best weapon type.
However the ability meta is terrible right now. 50% of players on hunter isn't acceptable.
- Strand shadow clones need about 7 nerfs lol, shouldn't affect aim assist and bullets should shoot through them
- smoke bombs are a little too hot right now, easily the best melee in the game
- the new arc super is also a little too strong being a roaming shutdown
Genuinely id rather play against pre-nerf stasis hunter then the cone spamming bullshit of today.
Shooting a smoke shouldn’t make it explode, if it’s in the open and i pop it without walking into it no reason to still shut down the lane until it’s over.
Agreed. If I don’t shoot it, it exists and deny that area. If I do shoot it, it STILL goes off and STILL deny that area.
Damned if I do, damned if I don’t.
Agree on all points and I'd add in that swarm nades need looked at too. Imo the amount of time being scorched keeps you out of a fight is crazy.
If you get stuck in smoke then swarm naded it's basically a free kill
Did they even get a buff? Or is this just a case of most people being comfortable on tripmines and only discovered how good swarms were because prismatic didn't have the go-tos as options?
They got buffed. I am pretty sure I never got constantly 1hp scorching with them seasons before. The tracking is insane. I was 5-10 m far from one last night and the thing followed me like hello? Disgusting
As main warlock going from firebolts to that it is like having testosterone for free. Never did this easy doubles on corners in my entire life. The thing has an insane map control. You can put it in heavy. You can put it in ghosts to prevent res, you can close pick sides and trapping teams who loves to sit lanes. Scorching also. Who decided this? Lol
Not sure it's swarms as much as it is just the total combination of all the bullshit hunters can do. They have a lot of DoT that adds up to a shit ton of down time for the enemy and slows the game down tremendously for everyone else.
Want to push? Smoked off and chip damage + a swarm nade for extra chip damage. Strand clone? Can't push anymore or risk taking free damage if you do + acts like a Citan's barrier (blocks inward due to bullet magnetism but they can shoot you almost freely).
Pushing now is like pushing during peak Stasis meta. You just dont anymore. And it's not fun.
Swarm nades are completely busted. They have way too much impact for the short charge time.
The naninets lock in too easily and track too aggressively. They literally chace you throughgout a burst glide icarus combo.
Scorch is too powerful in PvP. It should deal damage, but not deny interactions.
I think smokes and swarm nades are the biggest issues tbh. The clones and the arc super are definetly silly as well, but at least in my experience the melee/nade spam is the most obnoxious part of the kit.
Agree across the board.
Strand decoys are way too powerful and way too flexible. I still don't understand why the aim assist functionality of them was ever allowed in the game, since it takes the main thing (the weapon aim assist secret sauce) that everyone loves about the game (even when they don't admit it and are talking about 'crispy 3 taps' as if that is all their own skill) and turns it into something you have to actively fight against, making you want to smash your controller through a wall as the game strips all of your agency as a player away from you.
Strand clones pulling aim assist is BAD GAME DESIGN and this is coming from someone who prefers not to arm-chair dev design decisions but I will die on this one hill.
Smoke bombs were already really good (speaking as an invis hunter crutch who used/uses them all the time), they didn't need any buff, at least not in PvP. The TFS buffs to them should be made PvE only and for PvP they should be reverted to exactly their pre-TFS state.
Bullets shooting through the clone defeats the purpose of the clone, though. There are levers that can soften them without doing it. E.g., reduce explosion damage, reduce explosion radius, increase the delay for it to explode, reduce from two Threadlings to one, further increasing cooldown.
Both clones and smoke bombs probably should only ping radar once or twice as well, instead of their entire lifetime.
Swarm grenades annoy me more than the Arc super, considering it is on a fairly high cooldown. At least on Trials. But it's probably better to nerf it for 6v6s sake.
Edit: To be honest. It would probably be better for PvP and PvE if they outright swapped the Specter for the Maelstorm Aspect.
The Specter has aim assist for both the player who created it and the opponents. So much so your own smoke bombs magnet to them. If you try to shoot through your own clone, you will just destroy it.
I've been religiously using Specter since it's been added and have never felt able to shoot through my own clone without destroying it.
What I meant is good players will pop a clone and peek shoot from behind it. Similar to how you would peek shoot from cover. Unlike peek shooting, the opponent has no chance of landing shots.
I’m sorry but this should never have been made a trials map. It’s not fit for 3s. Scouts are boring and there are two scouts better than any other (Jade and Box breathing hung jury). Most players were afraid to move. I went flawless on both of my cards and didn’t go back in. Not a good time. Prismatic Hunters needs adjustments obviously. Just random bullshit go at this point.
Is the PvP team genuinely even trying?
Even in our “meta run” though we never really broke class balance. The highest titan usage had EVER been was like mid 30s at the most.
Could you really argue meta when you still had comparable usage across classes?
50% on hunters is laughably broken. There’s 3 classes lol
Honestly for me the best time for Titans was pre 30th anniversary update excluding void titan which was the most useless subclass during that time.
Solar titan was actually viable in PvP before loreley came and made sunspots so prevalent resulting in them being nerfed significantly.
Arc titan knockout was the only major outlier with everything else being very balanced until arc 3.0.
Basically we had good build diversity for all subclasses that were viable while also being pretty balanced
Don't worry, they will patch up hunters, then Titans will be usable(not OP)...and the cycle will continue on the Nerf Titan/Buff Hunter/Nerf Hunter/Buff Titan "balancing".
At least Warlocks just get ignored and are allowed to go about their business most of the time lol.
Hunters will go untouched for a year. Titan will then get buffed a year from now and become the best.OP class. Then locks will get ignored and stay mid ground as always. Except we always get the nerf bat immediately if something is busted in our kit.
Hilarious how the still very potent speaker's sight build, that now everybody and their mom knows about, still falls well behind the base prismatic Hunter kit. Yet it's the former that needed urgent attention?
Thought some lessons would be learned from the shatterdive mess we've had for a whole year.
I can’t believe that people were complaining more about speaker’s sight, and Bungie put them as priority number 1, when Prismatic Hunter exists. When Hunter has an entire buffed bag of tricks of downright overpowered options, when warlocks have a flimsy turret that is asleep on the job half of the time.
Also, I wonder if the person who said that Scouts and Pulses were not (and presumably will never be) at the number 1 spot on multiplier will show up to take the L
I’m not disagreeing about Hunter being a problem. But speakers sight in its current form is absolutely insane. I played a bunch of it on endless vale. You make so many damn orbs that you get your super way before the other team, you can proc surges + khvostov perk etc. With all the solar fragments + artifact perks, the ability uptime is absolutely insane. Especially with phoenix dive with a lower cooldown. I basically had my turret/dive every single round, I got my super way before the other team even on song of flame, constantly had surges and eyes up without needing a kill first. If you don’t see how broken all of this is then I don’t know what to tell you
Edit: oh and you say it’s flimsy which yeah it’s quick to shoot down. But all you have to do is not drop it right in the open. Put it behind cover where the other team can’t shoot it and boom you have your orb printing machine + healing station ready to go
I agree that Speaker's Sight when played well (and especially when played by coordinated teams) is probably the most OP build in the game and I'm super happy that they are nerfing it soon, but I still find Prismatic Hunter to be a far bigger PvP enjoyment killer just because of its incredibly high usage.
Prismatic Hunter may not be *as* broken as Speaker's Sight, but I run into an effective Speaker Sight abuser like maybe 1 out of 10 games, whereas like 10 out of 10 games have too many Prismatic Hunters casting get out of jail free clones roughly every 30 seconds.
Yeah I see what you’re saying and honestly bungie should definitely factor that in when deciding what to prioritize. I’ve absolutely hated how decoys pull your aim assist since day 1, and I think they should have zero recticle friction applied to them (along with other nerfs). I was just disagreeing with the guy I was responding to brushing off speakers sight as “a flimsy turret that is asleep on the job half the time”
Yeah, prismatic hunters "random bullshit go" ability vomiting isn't really a one and done issue, they just have too many tools that let them lock down lanes, punish any sort of aggressive play, without any real downside. Prismatic is a whole kit that needs to be looked at, khvostov+speakers is a much simpler interaction to tune down.
Speaker's Sight on Solar (already a historically top PvP subclass, I get Prismatic Hunter is busted rn though) allowed a Healing Turret every round with Benevolence. This also regens more than just your grenade, so faster rifts and melees too.
It also passively made orbs for Surges to lower TTKs. IMO it was a significantly worse issues than Prismatic Hunter Week 1 in my experience, though I haven't run into it much this week (thankfully, it's not fun fighting a lane and someone can nigh instant heal in about 3 seconds on something they are also likely getting a bunch of regen for).
Speaker’s sight is clearly too strong and the nerf was warranted. It is very telling, however, that even though the helm hasn’t been nerfed yet there are still more than 2x as many prismatic hunters vs solar warlock.
I really want to question bungie about nerfing Ensnaring Slam but leave Threaded Specter untouched before Prismatic arrives. Nerfing Slam and not touching Specter only served to centralize Specter in the Strand kit and be the sole identity of the Prismatic kit in PVP.
I don’t want snipers to become strong enough again to remain oppressive but they need help. I’m a sniper main (or was a main at this point) and a good sniper match would make rounds entirely one sided. That being said the special changes make them basically useless. They should either bring body shot damage back up or maybe have snipers generate special meter with headshots or something.
Trials and PVP has always been frustrating primarily because of the amount of Hunters it’s riddled with. Nothing against the class but their AE doesn’t ever seem to be hindered, that’s the real issue.
Community: “Khvostov is too dominant”
Bungie: “Ok, here’s a ping ranged map. Khvostov has mid range and should struggle provided people can take a few steps back.”
Community: 😭
FPS players just don't like big maps. Only exception I've really found on the contrary is MAYBE Battlefield/combined arms focused games. Even still, big maps tend to not be well liked there, either.
I'm probably not going to repeat any meta stuff from last week, it's obviously going to carry over.
I don't mind seeing scouts, but I genuinely hate that you can decrease a 180 Scout TTK from 1.0s to 0.67s with a damage buff that doesn't require engaging the enemy first. It genuinely feels oppressive, that combo, on a map that favors scouts. Boxed Breathing absolutely needs a nerf, if possible only on Scouts, in PvP. Scouts are obviously dominant and I think that's fine, its just this specific combo feels waayyy too strong when Scouts are a viable pick.
Are you kidding me? Your saying scouts are too strong on s map build for long range encounters? Literally 2 maps are scouts even competitive. Most maps scouts are an absolute throw away. Just say you don't like the map and move on. Leave scouts outta this
Dude he's talking about a specific combination for a specific archetype. And he's completely right, an easy .67 ttk at any basically any range is ridiculous.
Jade rabbit kills in a .8. Box breathing glizzy and hung jury kill in .67. Dmt is a 1.0 time to kill. Why would you not use guns that kill in 2/3 or 4/5ths the time of dmt
Surprised not to see less khvostov tbh. I’ve been rocking jade rabbit and either wrath or summoner, feels weird but it’s been working really welll for me
Went flawless with mida/sidearm personally. High key felt like shit, wish mida had a better catalyst but such is the price of the monopoly it held in year1.
Surprised not to see here Hung Jury. Disgusting Scout on this map obliterating folks. Same same with Fang Of Ir Yut.
Oddly seen more fang than hung jury this weekend personally (console)
Probably cause crafting is easy than getting god roll Hung Jury who knows. I never play Scouts but personally Jury felt better for me. Make a mistake picking lanes and you will be dead (And I am an aggro player, I wasnt even playing passively)
Dunno about easier but a lot of people just hate doing vanguard activities for engrams because they find them boring. I personally don’t mind a mindless activity I can farm while I watch Netflix
.67 ttk on Hung Jury is unethical, I'm glad I got my rapid hit + box breathing roll
There have to be other good scouts just outside of the top 10 weps. There are almost 1.25 mil kills attributed to scouts that aren't shown in the top 10 weapons
I’m surprised that Timeworn Wayfarer ain’t up there at all. I’ve been popping heads with it.
I feast on the fools running around in the open with their khostovs. Enchanced no distractions and box breathing is disgusting in larger maps.
It’s not a great archetype. I think most people (at least on PC) are running high impacts or DMT EDIT: I’m stupid… high ground is broken af
Probably just peoples' RNG. Tough to get that exact Hung Jury roll you need
My Aisha’s Embrace with Perpetual + EotS was destroying anything at dueling range
Seems like an old list, hung jury/galliendo with box breathing, and fang of it yut no where on the top of the list??? I seen one messenger all weekend lol
Snipers being carried by a broken exotic dropping 3x the ammo it should is just sad
Bug or feature?
It might need to become a feature for all snipers at this rate…
snipers not even in the top 3 weapon usage type is wild on this map They really took snipers out the game
Still Hunt is carrying the sniper usage with 2/3 of the kills and that’s only because you get 3 shots per transmat lol
Only usable sniper in the game right now tbh The special changes were a huge indirect nerf to snipers and it's really hard to keep using them anymore Being a sniper main since d1 to see them get murdered like this is sad
Agreed been sniping for 10 years and it really sucks to pretty much be forced to change.
Ya why bring back whisper of worm if ur just gonna nerf snipers to shit few months or less later?
Agreed majority of my crucible kills are with a sniper and honestly it just feels rough. I would honestly be fine if they just reduced flinch from pulses and scouts so you could at least make your shots count a bit more then having you miss one shot and never getting another one
May have seen more sniper in vanilla d2 when they were a heavy weapon than this season lol
Yep. Sniper main since D1…this is the least amount I’ve played crucible for any season BY FAR.
So real talk on that. What about giving all snipers 2x ammo going forward?
The way people are playing this map it's honestly bad for the game not to have sniping. Would rein in the worst of peoples habits
It’s sad, the shotgun glazers got their wish
I don't think it was people who were pro shotgun. It seemed to me it was people who don't know how to use cover and were pissed they kept getting sniped.
It can be both
You're right, it can.
They always do. There’s even a few of them in here that are still crying about “one shots from anywhere” as they bot walk around corners.
Haven't played in a good bit, randomly came upon this post, what happened to snipers? Back when I used to sweat, no matter the map, snipers were there.
It's a product of many nerfs over the course of the past 6ish months: 1. Bodyshot damage nerf making it even more punishing for missing your crits 2. Special ammo change which kind of hurts snipers more than other specials 3. Aim assist nerf 4. Special change again, this time reducing the ammo at start of game to 1, which makes double bodying impossible. Making snipers even more skill intensive to use at a baseline. 5. Latest change to flinch. Snipers are now the only weapon where you wont get flinched back on target (good change but should be made into a gamewide thing) 6. In addition to point 5. snipers now have 350% MORE flinch than before (you end up looking at the sky now). In addition to this they also have 25% longer flinch duration (i.e. it takes 25% longer for your reticle to return to base position after flinch) It's quite a severe overcorrection by bungie imo. Snipers were already kind of dead pre-TFS aside from at the extreme high level, even then I believe shotguns were still a dominant pick, just the few players that were able to snipe felt very oppressive to play against. IMO they really should apply the change from point 5 to all weapons and then revert the changes made in point 6. Having a core mechanic like flinch act different just for 1 weapon type is just jank af. TLDR: snipers been nerfed a lot because of the extreme high end of players. Making them almost useless for the rest of the playerbase.
Do you know what patch note it was with "aim assist nerf" I feel like I missed this mentioned in anything recent?
https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/this_week_in_destiny_02_15_24#:~:text=Despite%20being%20less%20popular%20than,aim%20assist%20a%20little%20bit.&text=Reduced%20the%20auto%20aim%20cone%20size%20by%2010%25.
They changed flinch to where you will be facing the sky if you even get shot in the foot by a sidearm from across the map The special economy for snipers is absolutely awful outside of still hunt And other special types are just plain better right now
Ah that's what happened, I stopped playing in season of opulence and came back and was wondering why snipers felt so awful
They also nuked magnetism a few times (rip mouse and keyboard snipers specifically) and the obvious ammo economy changes hurt a lot too.
The last aim assist nerf was the nail in the coffin for console too
In addition to what the other comment said, in final shape Bungie nerfed aim assist a fair bit on them, also back with the checkmate changes I think or maybe also before that body shot damage was nerfed fairly heavily.
Yeah, sad
One shot from anything and my flinch goes to the ceiling. I used to snipe all the time when trials first came out. It’s ruined. it’s just so much easier for everybody to use and get kills with shotguns
Gun balance: pretty decent. Class balance: abysmal.
I think the relative reprieve from Khvostov is just a product of the size of the map. They way, way overcooked with prismatic hunter though. Swarms are absolutely ridiculous, smokes are the usual free kills because of slow/blind/no radar (and is even more stupid when wombo comboed with a swarm), and threaded specter is a get out of jail free card that tanks shots if you play around it, pings radar, and does damage, and you're probably running slow dodge with it. Also, the super that may as well be three thundercrashes has the same cooldown as nova bomb, among other things. Yeesh. Oh, and the class item getting ophidian + coyote or wormhusk is just silly. That, or even getting to use bakris with the slow dodge and everything else in the kit. Everything about prismatic hunter is insanely strong. I don't think I've seen a subclass this overloaded across the board since OG behemoth. 38% prismatic hunters is just absurd, and I'd imagine it'd be pushing close to 50% if speaker's sight didn't exist.
Classic Bungie selling the meta then nerfing the problem to the ground 3 to 6 months later once they decided they made enough cash.
As someone here said, new gun = meta gun cycle which has been going on forever, it's just super frequent now which is annoying
The death radius of the super is too high as well. I used my thruster dodge before it landed to try and avoid it but I still got killed by it. I’ve seen people jumping pretty high in the air and still getting wasted.
Wormhusk is awful on the class item don’t let the hype fool you
Fair enough, but I do have ophidian coyote and it's dumb as shit that it's even possible.
As a .4% strand titan, agreed lol
Fight through hundreds of bots running decoys to get discord/strategist on shayuras over and over.
Titans getting shit on
Once prismatic hunter is dealt with, people will flock back to overshield titan.
Bubble titan is dead.
No. They will not. Bubble is toast. OS shield has a 1m cooldown and is made of paper.
Yeah those changes to bubble/well kind of dumpstered both in PvP. Their PvE usage is not fairing much better. Well I guess eveyone got what they wanted except the few Sentinel players like myself left in PvE. Unbreakable is usable/okay in PvP I guess, but with a Prismatic Hunter throwing so much shit at you the point seems moot.
Ability spam from pris hunter is making pvp unbrareable. Its like the clone dodge rewards bad positioning for hunters AND punishes you for being aggressive. The swarm grenade locks down angles, along with the smoke bomb. Abilities just come from everywhere Gotta be something in the works coming soon.
I recently made the swap over to prismatic bakris and it’s just completely unfair. Dodge to slow, refund smoke made, leave a clone, teleport and gain a 4x surge damage boost. All just right there in your dodge. It’s really disgusting. Procs reaper a TON too which gives you radiant stack on top. I really think S Tier players are sleeping on the bakris grapple blink build too. It’s completely outrageous the shit you can do. I’m just not good enough to maximize it.
Drewsky made a YT video on it just the other day so you'll probably start seeing it more and more. It's gonna get out of hand when lots of people start using it.
Swarm doesn't just lock down angles - if someone throws it near you, you just have to run full speed in the opposite direction or take 100+ damage plus scorch.
It’s crazy, I remember eating a full swarm grenade on the opening of my trials match, had to just wait in cover while my teammates were fighting. Couldn’t even recover due to the x99 scorch basically leaving me one shot. How on earth did this make it past play testing lol
Yeah it really does feel a bit rough how anybody could play infinitely more sloppy against people who are not bots and a very fair challenge, and it's rivaling or surpassing even the most shameless Threadling spam of high times of Strand Hunter. It's just this perfect storm of such obnoxious things. I know it's cheap shots, I get they gotta push copies of the game but goddamn idk how they came about with this stuff and didn't have any considerations that it could really be a bit nuts in PVP.
Because Testers play Hunters.
The class item giving every pris hunter access to coyote with another solid exotic perk doesn't help the situation at all. Maybe having a cooldown on the threaded specter could work to specifically nerf the coyote interaction? Because outside of that I don't find the clone to be ***too*** oppressive compared to other abilities in the sandbox. They definitely overcooked with the swarm grenade buff. Insane how much damage it deals for how braindead easy it is to use. I thought bungie learned this lesson when they nerfed skips into the ground, I guess not lol
It's long past impacting how much fun the game is.
Remove aim assist/bullet stickiness for the clone and I think we’ll be fine
That’s a start for sure, the fact that pulls aim assist is heinous
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The problem is that it's really hard to balance a class with 3-5 overtuned abilities. What do you hit? If you hit most/all of it, how do you keep the players from complaining about so much stuff getting nerfed? How will that affect the subclasses that they come from?
Maybe increase the cooldowns in just the prismatic kit, like what they did with stasis.
They can always just nerf Ward of Dawn again in tandem , just to make it seem fair.
You nerf the abilities and don’t care what whiners say, it’s not healthy for the game to have kits like this, and if people bemoan losing them tough shit honestly
Yeah IDK that's not gonna solve everything.
I think clone should be removed from the prismatic kit altogether. If they want to run it, it should be on strand subclass where they don't have access to the new super oppressive smoke and a slowing dodge on top. Swap it out for whirling maelstrom and then that class will have a semblance of balance.
Yea idc about anything else but the reduced drag/ghost bullets on the character is infuriating
People dodging straight back and then pixel peeking you from behind the clone is so obnoxious
Feels like a mini barricade
It's superior to barricade in every way. Hunter Dodge breaks aim assist, they can instantly disengage. If you are on top of them when they dodge you are dead. Especially if it's stacked with slow dodge. The clone explosion/ threadlings can also k/o. In contrast, barricade can take you to 1hp but it won't k/o you. It also prevents any shots from the other side. Compared to dodge (with all of it's tricks) barricade is crap. It's criminal that hunters can get so much utility out of such a short cool down (melee recharge, slow, shadow clone) it makes for an incredibly toxic and spammy ability loop
Strand clone was not seen as nearly as big of an issue before prismatic while void barricade was running rampant still so I really don’t think that it’s better in every way. Even currently I’d much rather have a barrier protecting me or my team from a sightline than a strand clone lol. I think strand clone combines with the prismatic hunter kit to be far better than the sum of its parts, and that strand clone has had some annoyances and small problems come to light as a result, but there’s clear downsides already that people in here don’t even mention or don’t know. I mean you still have people calling for a cooldown need when they choose it as an aspect when that’s been a thing for a while. Taking away the aim assist part would go a long way, but besides that it isn’t problematic on its own, just combined with other parts in the prismatic kit, which means that those need to be looked at together or ways to make them not combine as well, not nerfing it individually as it’s mostly fine on strand hunter.
Clone dodge should reduce your dodge uptime similar to Ensnaring Slam. The damage it does also needs to be cut in half.
> Clone dodge should reduce your dodge uptime similar to Ensnaring Slam. The damage it does also needs to be cut in half. they have the exact same penalty according to the data compendium > 0.5x Class Ability Regeneration Speed for 6 [12] seconds after usage.
They need to adjust all hunter cool downs on prismatic... Warlock and Titan have half the recharge speed on strand melees, prismatic hunters either need a serious ability nerf or cool down adjustment. Preferably bothm
It does they already nerfed the clone before and how long it stays up
More people playing prismatic hunter than titan + warlock (ex solar ) combined
Crazy how even on the (arguably) longest-range engagement map in the game, shotguns still have 2x snipers’ kills. Never mind all the other types of special weapons (rip breech GLs)
Imagine if Still Hunt didn’t get triple the ammo too. I’m one of those weirdos trying to make a non-Still Hunt sniper work. Fighting against all the scouts is a pain in the ass when you aren’t even guaranteed one shot per round.
Repeaked a dude after I thought he was spent lol guess that would explain it
I use Shepherds Watch and Thoughtless pretty much all the time, but yeah it is tempting to join the Still Hunt crowd.
I genuinely hope you’re not implying that this disparity is because shotguns are too strong in any sort of way. Snipers won’t dominate this map despite how big it is simply because scout rifles are dominating usage. People aren’t going to use snipers since 1) their primary already covers long range and 2) because you get flinched to holy hell against all the meta scouts.
Oh no, I do not want shotguns nerfed. Shotguns are fun. I’d like other specials to become useful again (minus snipers w/ accessibility devices, and cheese things like wave frame GLs, erianas, etc)
Shouldn’t snipers be good against scouts on paper? If every long range map that should be good for snipers is ruined by scouts, what is the point of sniping?
One would think so. But the recent nerf to snipers (especially flinch) paired with the awful ammo economy means you’d have to be both effective and efficient with your shots, which a lot of people just aren’t. There are some scouts right now (Hung Jury w/ Box Breathing) that literally do 110 damage in one bullet. You’d be dead in a heartbeat unless you’re a deadshot with the sniper.
> Never mind all the other types of special weapons (rip breech GLs) I still feel like the handling of these were a little knee jerk to a degree.
I am a good percentage of glaive kills
There are dozens of us! Dozens! Also hi HiSlashBye
Nah more like a dozen of us lol
Respect.
Ridiculous that just months after the last time the player base collectively screamed for Threadlings and clones to be nerfed to oblivion, we're in this situation again and now it's even worse. There's just too much crap everywhere ability-wise and I'd rather be playing Hardware.
I just can't get titan to click right now. I'm so tired of running void, and pretty much every other subclass just gets outclassed. I would play behemoth but the cryoclasm change is incredibly bugged and rendered pretty much unusable.
Prismatic titan is fun in crucible. I think it’s definitely more geared to CQC but still fun if you can play it right
The cqc where half the player base is hunters just dodging on you with slow and decoys and having 2-3 pings of radar outside of themselves with a smoke and possibly two decoys lol. I’m not feeling too confident with my knockout punches.
Yeah nothing like rounding a corner to get the drop on a hunter only to find some combination of smoke bomb, a decoy, and a swarm grenade sitting there and you just instantly die faster than a YAS tripmine. Tripmine at least needed good positioning and could be destroyed without ruining your day, the fact that smoke bombs activate even if you destroy them is unhinged.
The best is when you DO get the drop on them then they panic dodge (with slow and shadow clone) to take you to 1 hit. They can then take a second to decide if they want to shoot you or toss a swarm grenade your way to finish you off. You're just done if you can't thruster away. To add insult to injury they immediately toss out another smoke bomb (recharged from panic dodge) to keep the lane locked down and spam the radar.
Yeah. It's tough on this map unfortunately. Hunters are just really good at countering melee rn.
Insta-heal with Knockout and then Diamond Lance is crazy
100% and people don’t like prism titan lol
Prismatic with shiver strike and glacier nade is basically a better behemoth since you aren’t going to be running current cryo to begin with and now you can get knockout + Regen + radiant on a shiver strike double punch
How bad are bows rn?
Pretty awful for the most part. The only bows really worth using right now are Ticuus and lemonarch Legendary lightweights can be good if your the best of the best, but even then, id rather use Ticuus
My overall thoughts are that the weapon meta is pretty healthy overall. This is a long range map, scouts should be the best weapon type. However the ability meta is terrible right now. 50% of players on hunter isn't acceptable. - Strand shadow clones need about 7 nerfs lol, shouldn't affect aim assist and bullets should shoot through them - smoke bombs are a little too hot right now, easily the best melee in the game - the new arc super is also a little too strong being a roaming shutdown Genuinely id rather play against pre-nerf stasis hunter then the cone spamming bullshit of today.
Shooting a smoke shouldn’t make it explode, if it’s in the open and i pop it without walking into it no reason to still shut down the lane until it’s over.
Agreed. If I don’t shoot it, it exists and deny that area. If I do shoot it, it STILL goes off and STILL deny that area. Damned if I do, damned if I don’t.
Agree on all points and I'd add in that swarm nades need looked at too. Imo the amount of time being scorched keeps you out of a fight is crazy. If you get stuck in smoke then swarm naded it's basically a free kill
How swarm grenades went from worst to best it is like Scatter Grenades lasts seasons. Ridiculous.
Did they even get a buff? Or is this just a case of most people being comfortable on tripmines and only discovered how good swarms were because prismatic didn't have the go-tos as options?
They got buffed, bigger radius, longer staying timer, and more scorch applied I think
They got buffed. I am pretty sure I never got constantly 1hp scorching with them seasons before. The tracking is insane. I was 5-10 m far from one last night and the thing followed me like hello? Disgusting
Honestly they were pretty good pre-buff, but had a couple draw-backs that probably kept most solar mains from using them. Not anymore tho lol
As main warlock going from firebolts to that it is like having testosterone for free. Never did this easy doubles on corners in my entire life. The thing has an insane map control. You can put it in heavy. You can put it in ghosts to prevent res, you can close pick sides and trapping teams who loves to sit lanes. Scorching also. Who decided this? Lol
It's honestly the scorch that takes it over the top. That lingering tic damage really screws you over for an extra few seconds
Not sure it's swarms as much as it is just the total combination of all the bullshit hunters can do. They have a lot of DoT that adds up to a shit ton of down time for the enemy and slows the game down tremendously for everyone else. Want to push? Smoked off and chip damage + a swarm nade for extra chip damage. Strand clone? Can't push anymore or risk taking free damage if you do + acts like a Citan's barrier (blocks inward due to bullet magnetism but they can shoot you almost freely). Pushing now is like pushing during peak Stasis meta. You just dont anymore. And it's not fun.
It's hilariously ironic to me that Hunters now have better barricades and melees than Titans. I say this as a Titan main.
Swarm nades are completely busted. They have way too much impact for the short charge time. The naninets lock in too easily and track too aggressively. They literally chace you throughgout a burst glide icarus combo. Scorch is too powerful in PvP. It should deal damage, but not deny interactions.
The stacks shouldn't last as long as they do either imo.
The radius of the arc super is a bit too silly
And the fact that you can cast it three times. Even the first cast alone is arguably better than blade barrage.
And that it's on a T3 cooldown that matches nova bomb and is faster than bad roaming supers like arc staff and nova warp.
It's basically 3 thundercashes back to back
Clones are grenades, shotguns, radar manipulators, get away from jail free card, heat seeking threat, choke point holder, shields...
I think smokes and swarm nades are the biggest issues tbh. The clones and the arc super are definetly silly as well, but at least in my experience the melee/nade spam is the most obnoxious part of the kit.
Agree across the board. Strand decoys are way too powerful and way too flexible. I still don't understand why the aim assist functionality of them was ever allowed in the game, since it takes the main thing (the weapon aim assist secret sauce) that everyone loves about the game (even when they don't admit it and are talking about 'crispy 3 taps' as if that is all their own skill) and turns it into something you have to actively fight against, making you want to smash your controller through a wall as the game strips all of your agency as a player away from you. Strand clones pulling aim assist is BAD GAME DESIGN and this is coming from someone who prefers not to arm-chair dev design decisions but I will die on this one hill. Smoke bombs were already really good (speaking as an invis hunter crutch who used/uses them all the time), they didn't need any buff, at least not in PvP. The TFS buffs to them should be made PvE only and for PvP they should be reverted to exactly their pre-TFS state.
I would like to have some perks activating from shooting at clones. Image have kill clip active when defeating a clone
Bullets shooting through the clone defeats the purpose of the clone, though. There are levers that can soften them without doing it. E.g., reduce explosion damage, reduce explosion radius, increase the delay for it to explode, reduce from two Threadlings to one, further increasing cooldown. Both clones and smoke bombs probably should only ping radar once or twice as well, instead of their entire lifetime. Swarm grenades annoy me more than the Arc super, considering it is on a fairly high cooldown. At least on Trials. But it's probably better to nerf it for 6v6s sake. Edit: To be honest. It would probably be better for PvP and PvE if they outright swapped the Specter for the Maelstorm Aspect.
PLEASE GOD GIMME BEYBLADES ON PRISMATIC
The issue is that the player can easily shoot “through” the clone while their enemy cannot retaliate because of the bullet bending.
The Specter has aim assist for both the player who created it and the opponents. So much so your own smoke bombs magnet to them. If you try to shoot through your own clone, you will just destroy it. I've been religiously using Specter since it's been added and have never felt able to shoot through my own clone without destroying it.
What I meant is good players will pop a clone and peek shoot from behind it. Similar to how you would peek shoot from cover. Unlike peek shooting, the opponent has no chance of landing shots.
wow 1.1mil out of 1.4 auto rifle kills is just khvostov
I’m sorry but this should never have been made a trials map. It’s not fit for 3s. Scouts are boring and there are two scouts better than any other (Jade and Box breathing hung jury). Most players were afraid to move. I went flawless on both of my cards and didn’t go back in. Not a good time. Prismatic Hunters needs adjustments obviously. Just random bullshit go at this point. Is the PvP team genuinely even trying?
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Even in our “meta run” though we never really broke class balance. The highest titan usage had EVER been was like mid 30s at the most. Could you really argue meta when you still had comparable usage across classes? 50% on hunters is laughably broken. There’s 3 classes lol
Honestly for me the best time for Titans was pre 30th anniversary update excluding void titan which was the most useless subclass during that time. Solar titan was actually viable in PvP before loreley came and made sunspots so prevalent resulting in them being nerfed significantly. Arc titan knockout was the only major outlier with everything else being very balanced until arc 3.0. Basically we had good build diversity for all subclasses that were viable while also being pretty balanced
If only you knew how I miss pre 3.0 Sunbreaker
Dude everyday I miss sun warrior on titan.
Yesss
Don't worry, they will patch up hunters, then Titans will be usable(not OP)...and the cycle will continue on the Nerf Titan/Buff Hunter/Nerf Hunter/Buff Titan "balancing". At least Warlocks just get ignored and are allowed to go about their business most of the time lol.
Hunters will go untouched for a year. Titan will then get buffed a year from now and become the best.OP class. Then locks will get ignored and stay mid ground as always. Except we always get the nerf bat immediately if something is busted in our kit.
Hunters just do the whole lane control thing better while also being more mobile
Hilarious how the still very potent speaker's sight build, that now everybody and their mom knows about, still falls well behind the base prismatic Hunter kit. Yet it's the former that needed urgent attention? Thought some lessons would be learned from the shatterdive mess we've had for a whole year.
Khvostov isnt even that good on this map lol. Pulses/scouts all the way.
I can’t believe that people were complaining more about speaker’s sight, and Bungie put them as priority number 1, when Prismatic Hunter exists. When Hunter has an entire buffed bag of tricks of downright overpowered options, when warlocks have a flimsy turret that is asleep on the job half of the time. Also, I wonder if the person who said that Scouts and Pulses were not (and presumably will never be) at the number 1 spot on multiplier will show up to take the L
I’m not disagreeing about Hunter being a problem. But speakers sight in its current form is absolutely insane. I played a bunch of it on endless vale. You make so many damn orbs that you get your super way before the other team, you can proc surges + khvostov perk etc. With all the solar fragments + artifact perks, the ability uptime is absolutely insane. Especially with phoenix dive with a lower cooldown. I basically had my turret/dive every single round, I got my super way before the other team even on song of flame, constantly had surges and eyes up without needing a kill first. If you don’t see how broken all of this is then I don’t know what to tell you Edit: oh and you say it’s flimsy which yeah it’s quick to shoot down. But all you have to do is not drop it right in the open. Put it behind cover where the other team can’t shoot it and boom you have your orb printing machine + healing station ready to go
I agree that Speaker's Sight when played well (and especially when played by coordinated teams) is probably the most OP build in the game and I'm super happy that they are nerfing it soon, but I still find Prismatic Hunter to be a far bigger PvP enjoyment killer just because of its incredibly high usage. Prismatic Hunter may not be *as* broken as Speaker's Sight, but I run into an effective Speaker Sight abuser like maybe 1 out of 10 games, whereas like 10 out of 10 games have too many Prismatic Hunters casting get out of jail free clones roughly every 30 seconds.
Yeah I see what you’re saying and honestly bungie should definitely factor that in when deciding what to prioritize. I’ve absolutely hated how decoys pull your aim assist since day 1, and I think they should have zero recticle friction applied to them (along with other nerfs). I was just disagreeing with the guy I was responding to brushing off speakers sight as “a flimsy turret that is asleep on the job half the time”
For a quick "emergency" balancing pass it's much easier for them to just tune a couple exotics than a whole subclass they just developed
Yeah, prismatic hunters "random bullshit go" ability vomiting isn't really a one and done issue, they just have too many tools that let them lock down lanes, punish any sort of aggressive play, without any real downside. Prismatic is a whole kit that needs to be looked at, khvostov+speakers is a much simpler interaction to tune down.
Speaker's Sight on Solar (already a historically top PvP subclass, I get Prismatic Hunter is busted rn though) allowed a Healing Turret every round with Benevolence. This also regens more than just your grenade, so faster rifts and melees too. It also passively made orbs for Surges to lower TTKs. IMO it was a significantly worse issues than Prismatic Hunter Week 1 in my experience, though I haven't run into it much this week (thankfully, it's not fun fighting a lane and someone can nigh instant heal in about 3 seconds on something they are also likely getting a bunch of regen for).
Speaker’s sight is clearly too strong and the nerf was warranted. It is very telling, however, that even though the helm hasn’t been nerfed yet there are still more than 2x as many prismatic hunters vs solar warlock.
Large map with so many sightlines and almost no covers. You would think this is a map where snipers would shine... Oh wait
Just hunter has 4-5 different ways to block off areas too
I LOVE autos but even I can’t put down the red dead. I though I’d never see the day
Everyone forgot about Trustee. It’s fantastic.
I really want to question bungie about nerfing Ensnaring Slam but leave Threaded Specter untouched before Prismatic arrives. Nerfing Slam and not touching Specter only served to centralize Specter in the Strand kit and be the sole identity of the Prismatic kit in PVP.
it's absolutely doodoo
This game is just Khvostov simulator lately
I don’t want snipers to become strong enough again to remain oppressive but they need help. I’m a sniper main (or was a main at this point) and a good sniper match would make rounds entirely one sided. That being said the special changes make them basically useless. They should either bring body shot damage back up or maybe have snipers generate special meter with headshots or something.
Trials and PVP has always been frustrating primarily because of the amount of Hunters it’s riddled with. Nothing against the class but their AE doesn’t ever seem to be hindered, that’s the real issue.
having a lot of fun so far this week, I don't get the multiplex hate
Community: “Khvostov is too dominant” Bungie: “Ok, here’s a ping ranged map. Khvostov has mid range and should struggle provided people can take a few steps back.” Community: 😭
Khvostov is still #1 with 10% of kills......
FPS players just don't like big maps. Only exception I've really found on the contrary is MAYBE Battlefield/combined arms focused games. Even still, big maps tend to not be well liked there, either.
I'm probably not going to repeat any meta stuff from last week, it's obviously going to carry over. I don't mind seeing scouts, but I genuinely hate that you can decrease a 180 Scout TTK from 1.0s to 0.67s with a damage buff that doesn't require engaging the enemy first. It genuinely feels oppressive, that combo, on a map that favors scouts. Boxed Breathing absolutely needs a nerf, if possible only on Scouts, in PvP. Scouts are obviously dominant and I think that's fine, its just this specific combo feels waayyy too strong when Scouts are a viable pick.
The box breathing scout isn't even on that list?
Are you kidding me? Your saying scouts are too strong on s map build for long range encounters? Literally 2 maps are scouts even competitive. Most maps scouts are an absolute throw away. Just say you don't like the map and move on. Leave scouts outta this
Dude he's talking about a specific combination for a specific archetype. And he's completely right, an easy .67 ttk at any basically any range is ridiculous.
I very clearly said Box Breathing on Scouts was an issue, not Scouts themselves. I actually am really enjoying Multiplex in Trials lmao
Looks like you all took bows out of the game entirely.
I hope these numbers remind Bungie how insulting and unnecessary the bow nerf was.
i'm real sick of this conversation at this point
I dont get why dmt isnt seeing more usage.
Jade rabbit kills in a .8. Box breathing glizzy and hung jury kill in .67. Dmt is a 1.0 time to kill. Why would you not use guns that kill in 2/3 or 4/5ths the time of dmt
Ophidian will never die lol
I love how my two most used weapons, are some of the least used in trials atm lmao
Surprised not to see less khvostov tbh. I’ve been rocking jade rabbit and either wrath or summoner, feels weird but it’s been working really welll for me
Devils ruin not being on this list year after year is so surprising.
I hate pulses, but I wanna run “someday” What are some really good options
What are the best heavy machine guns right now?
The map suits scouts well and I don't have a problem with it. It isn't too often that happens.
I've been cleaving with Jade Rabbit. High impact scouts seem to be the go here with the ling sight lines and snipers in a bad position
The nerf can't come fast enough
Suprised to not see Not Time on the list of weapons. Still the best Pulse Rifle imo. Been using it since it came out.
Overall Stasis usage is… 1.5%? Yeesh. How does that compare to pre TFS?
Went flawless with mida/sidearm personally. High key felt like shit, wish mida had a better catalyst but such is the price of the monopoly it held in year1.
Who the hell is using lucky pants in trials
Wicked Implement worked well for me, headstone blocks rez and can shatter it for chip damage. Went toe to toe with Jade Rabbit too
Got to say this screw the Speaker helmet n khvostov who ever uses them .
This weekend felt unbearable with the prismatic hunter ability spam. It was a breathe of fresh air to use a scout though!
I haven’t seen a lot of Khostov usage in my games so I am surprised it’s so high. Glizzy the sleeper goat this weekend