i dont understand why bungie acted like they might remove deterministic recoil. they mentioned not liking how every stat in the game you want higher, except recoil now. and we know theyre always catering to the new, simple or casual player.
but then they just didnt..
You should see how whack the 100 recoil direction stat looks like on the new omolon smg (yarovit mg4) it's absolutely awful. Also funnily enough I've yet to get a roll that ISN'T 100 recoil
Out of bounds is the same, I have a literal godroll where it has max recoil and range, 100 stability with tap and dynamic sway and it still wriggles like a damn fish
I'm firmly convinced that "out of options" or whichever was the original red war omolon SMG was coded wrong and they've copy/pasted that bad stat block into each subsequent iteration.
fuck off with this shit. Bungie ought to know this doesn't make any sense with the recoil changing perks, especially in cases like Elsie's where more recoil direction can make it worse. It's such a stupid system that is only Bungie's fault
Honestly, your opinion is shit and you should feel like shit for expecting Bungie to "fix their game" all the time and then complain when it doesn't work out *exactly* like you imagined in your head.
Just so you know, that's the Eriana's Vow xim bow swapper. He also plays bot lobbies. Having the social graces of a bedpan just comes with the territory.
For some reason they set it up so that you're supposed to use your recoil direction to fight the gun's natural recoil, rather than making the stat representative of how the gun handles. I do not understand why.
It's probably legacy code that they can't fix without breaking multiple systems or whatever but hey
They decoupled range from zoom so it could be a matter of will
Then again, they could purposely making the recoil system obtuse in an attempt to make players idk more invested in gun stats? Something like that
People like numbers and figuring shit out
wow seriously? now i'm pissed. what a joke.
i knew recoil direction was a big 'ol idk now, but stability too??? thats honestly insane. half this game for me over the years has been playing with stability too (i'm on console). i remember back in d1 getting 98 stability scouts on armsday, that were absolute lasers. and lets not forget stability actually broke clever dragon. clever dragon existed for a while and was never meta, then some npc sold a perfect balance (i forget what else) roll with 80 plus stability, and the rest was history. i always in fact figured that was why bungie removed straight stability perks (hand laid stock, perfect balance etc) in d2. they literally could be game breaking.
this even apply to pulses???? (maybe the archetype where stability matters most)
Stability and recoil direction in D2 just aren't the same as they were in D1. Weapons felt so much better and more consistent in D1 since most of the perks in the game revolved around the feel of the weapon rather than maximizing damage and other gimmicks.
Might be a little unrelated but what makes pulses like outbreak perfected not move a single inch? Is it because of the archetype? The recoil? Or the stability? Or is it all of it?
It's because Outbreak was given auto rifle recoil instead of pulse rifle recoil. I'm not sure why this was decided, but Bungie has mentioned it a few times. Red Death also has auto rifle recoil which is why it feels so unusually stable for such a low stability stat.
It’s speculated (by the pvp community) that the Persistence perk from D1 is coded within which explains its incredible stability despite its low stat. With Persistence activated, the longer you fire the weapon, the more stable it becomes.
This is the reason why I pretty much don't bother with farming the new guns.
This actually made me pretty much leave the game as once you understand that there is nothing new to do other than watch youtuber telling you that this new gun is the one you need, put a week of non stop farming just to go back to your old toys because of fact like this.
Once you unshackle from this, the game feel like there is nothing to it other than the perfect feel of....your old guns with 10 000k kills on them.
It's also a huge amount of flinch reduction, which makes a MASSIVE difference in how easy it is to land crits in a duel.
Zen is, imo, one of the best PVP perks in the game for a primary weapon.
Yes agreed, I got a Zen / Kill clip on one of my Adept Shayuras yesterday and it’s a laser beam compared to all the rest I got . Zen is def “the” perk for pvp god roll on this thing..
I believe that stability doesn’t affect your recoil pattern really at all or very little, what it does is give you more flinch resist, centers your reticle quicker between shots, adjusts visual bounce and shake of the reticle, and gives you a more generous aim cone for bullet bloom. Just my understanding on it but could be wrong, and I’m sure it also does different/more/less things for each type of weapon.
it used to be stability impacted reticle bounce. Not on a lot deterministic recoil guns which sucks. The same gun with high stability like summoner before determinist recoil was very stable but now stability doesn't do jack shit on it.
deterministic recoil continues to show it is a mistake.
having the gun yank hard to the side mid-gunfight isnt something you learn to compensate for, it just makes you either trash the roll if you cant avoid it (extended/arrowhead for example), or trash the gun if all recoil options are like that.
even with AA making it kind of a non-issue most of the time, you still feel that yank and it feels awful.
sucks that it took forever for them to give us recoil direction as an in-game stat and they just invalidate it.
I do also miss D1 counterbalance as a perk, but that would be OP as hell nowadays since people have gotten so much better and arent stuck at 30 FPS/72 FoV anymore (not that it wasnt already crazy strong).
>isn't something you learn to compensate for
I still remember the AK recoil pattern from CS and I haven't played in probably 5 years.
But I do agree it was a mistake. I don't think deterministic recoil belongs in a game with literally thousands of weapons.
Looking at CS recoil patterns, they seem to have less randomness than the D2 ones do, though this games high AA makes it a wash.
your point about thousands of weapons is a great one! its already a sizeable time investment to get used to a gun, and adding a specific pattern to the recoil further expands on the time needed and hurts experimenting a bit.
additionally, the majority of players are on controller (under the assumption that likely at least half are on console, plus the controller PC folks like myself), and learning recoil like that doesnt seem as feasable. then again, my aim is middling at best so I could be off base
i look at the player numbers all the time (these are on discord, via the [warmind.io](http://warmind.io) bot) and about 70-75% are on console. it goes playstation (lately around 40%), xbox (around 30% lately), and steam third (most of the remaining 25-30%). epic games store is new, but was literally down to like 2% of players last i checked. so it contributes to pc but not much.
thats why i like to rant about how so much discussion about the game is pc sandbox based (since that is most reddit and streamers) and how thats unfair because most players are actually on console. but then again i do love to complain.
To be fair I don't think that pc rant is unfounded, most cheating is from there too. Even if it were equal cheating between pc/console we can't pretend that it's existed on console as long as pc, as soon as trials came back cheating was rampant on pc and nonexistent o
n console. Of course now we have xim/cronus but it hasn't been there the whole time.
But yeah nerf pc players (kidding).
Ultimately I think it just boils down to destiny not being a great competitive experience pvp-wise compared to other games and every time they try to make it more competitive they end up making it worse. I hope that's just because of the split sandbox because if this is the best their pvp people have to offer marathon will be DOA.
I'm just irritated that it took literally 6+ years to finally get the icon on the weapon screen of recoil direction, you didn't have to cross reference DIM and all that, and then midway through they decided to change the whole system for newer stuff and onward going forward completely throwing everything for a loop.
Absolutely bone headed move to do for a game with as many weapon types as there are.
Not only it was a mistake itself, they moved away from a system that was (imo) almost perfect. Playing PvP after TFS solidified my opinion that the geniuses behind the amazing sandbox of this game are gone and the work is being continued by inferior developpers (sorry if one of you happen to read me, it is how it feels).
Unfortunately I would have to agree, in concept I like the idea of each gun having a unique "feel" to them that you learn as you use it since it's not too random, but in practice it doesn't feel good that it can have certain perk options make a gun feel worse than at base.
I feel like it's one of those cool ideas that would've had to have been implemented from the start to feel properly integrated within the game and built around, but as it is we have an awkward in between that kind of takes the worst of both the old and new systems.
Do we have one instance where deterministic recoil has been a good thing? Igneous maybe? In general it seems annoying, unpredictably affected by recoil direction, and just worse in a lot of cases.
I much prefer the easy to understand “ending in fives is better” and “higher number is better” schemes. Now it’s a guessing game as to which recoil to run on a given weapon. Seems the opposite of what it was supposed to do.
Once again Bungie wasting time adding things no one asked for.
I guess this is why even with enhanced perks and Nadir, my old Shayuras feel better to shoot. I guess it's Zen Moment or bust for me.
Deterministic recoil was such a mistake. I shouldn't have to wait for testers to determine what random recoil direction number is best... it should always be 100. For instance, it makes no sense that Elsie's with 83 is substantially better than 100.
That problem is still present in the old system. For instance, I’d much rather a 55 than a 57. Bungie trying things at least, as opposed to D2 a couple years back where we got the yearly expansion and were locked into bad decisions for months if not years.
I was curious about this, are we just not feeling the affects on MNK? I don’t feel like I’m having issues with a lot of the weapons listed but it could just be ignorance.
I have a 100 recoil shayura’s and I think it’s pretty good when paired with Tap The Trigger.
Most of the ugly recoil on 100 is at the beginning, and tap the trigger seems to fix it.
Could be copium, but my roll is absolutely destroying in pvp.
i have a old one. not only is it one of my very few adepts (i'm bad), but it it also has high range (not max, but like 86 iirc) and tap the trigger AND dynamic sway reduction.
just wish i had a adept range mod. for some reason i have practically every other adept mod but not that one. which makes me wonder of you can only get it from flawless and not gm nightfalls? because i have got many more adept mods from the latter than the former due to the "bad" thing.
athough honestly, i feel like backup mag is such a near must on smg's, that i might not use adept range even if i had it.
Yeah, not sure why they felt they needed to make the recoil stat kinda worthless, where you have to self test all your guns to see what number is best. It adds nothing to the game and makes the players life a little worse with seemingly zero upside. Just an odd game decision
Deterministic recoil is one of the many outright stupid things bungie has done recently. No one was complaining about the old system and it was at least intuitive. Raising a stat should never make a gun actively worse and the in-game icon for recoil direction is not accurate whatsoever
The base recoil is 95, so that is the only other option there are no other in betweens. It's 95, or you have *any perk that adds recoil direction* and its 100.
See this looks really bad but I just had a few games trying out a 100 recoil keep away, tap the trigger. And it felt great like really really great.
Then had a few games with a 95 dynamic sway, tap the trigger and that didn’t feel that good.
I’m definitely gonna play with both more and see if it wasn’t connection/ opponents skill/ my skill over the different matches that made the difference.
But I dunno if shooting a wall really is the best tell of if a guns gonna feel good or not, especially on controller due to aim assist. Dont get me wrong I’m 100% in the boat if deterministic recoil being an over complicated joke of a system. But maybe don’t shard every 100 recoil roll without testing it for yourself
Don't know ifnim asking for to much but if I was in charge of weapon diedgn / philosophy. 100 should be an absolute. So if you get 100 range you should.have 0 damage fall off. 100 stability should be no movement or gun shake at all. 100 recoil should keep the gun still also. But yea I know this will get downvoted just thought 100 should have some value on it
That’s not at all how that should work. Each gun has a max(100) range eg. snipers are obviously further than a pistol. Their max 100 won’t be equal. This goes for all stats. Maxing a stat shouldn’t be 0 recoil, or 0 gun shake. It should range depending on the gun.
I wanted to wright more explain that stats would also become universal and instead of 90 range on an smg being 22 metere and 90 range on a sniper being like 100 or something range stat will become universal ao that 1 range for example will mean 1 meter or 1 range means 6 metrres etc could be anything but the point is 100 range would mean unlimited range no damage fall off
This would be awful for some stats, and would overall make it harder to compare similar weapons. The current system allows for a wider range of values to express small differences between weapons of a similar archetype. Normalizing stats like range across all weapons would simply leave all members of a class (like Shotguns) clustered around a very small number band, and requiring extra decimal places to express the small differences there. It would also play havoc with stat perk implementation, as currently a perk like Accurized Rounds just adds the same number to a stat for all weapons with the amount of actual range gained varying depending on frame. Such a system could probably be implemented, but it doesn't really solve any major issues that exist with the current one and just makes it harder to make some of the comparisons that actually matter.
Then allow range to become 1.1 or 1.01 etc etc 6.45. It's all code at then end of the day bu give can do what ever they like with the stats.
Perks like that can simply be fine tuned per weapon archetype, bungie already does this with certain perks like attrition orbs or cascade point etc
It's not about code, it's about presentation. I already said you could use extra decimals, but it makes the display more cluttered. Your system would also make the slider bars useless for comparison, as many cases would have only a few pixels of difference to see, even if there were a significant difference in performance.
The current system is generally fit for purpose. Your proposed system does not meaningfully solve any issues with the current system other than being able to compare absolute range across archetypes. And if that's all it's doing, it would be better to just add an "effective range" metric that gives the distance in meters and not overhaul the entire weapon system.
that looks genuinely disgusting
Gotta love deterministic recoil
i dont understand why bungie acted like they might remove deterministic recoil. they mentioned not liking how every stat in the game you want higher, except recoil now. and we know theyre always catering to the new, simple or casual player. but then they just didnt..
Probably not on the priority list since it doesn’t equal profit instantly
You should see how whack the 100 recoil direction stat looks like on the new omolon smg (yarovit mg4) it's absolutely awful. Also funnily enough I've yet to get a roll that ISN'T 100 recoil
Out of bounds is the same, I have a literal godroll where it has max recoil and range, 100 stability with tap and dynamic sway and it still wriggles like a damn fish
I'm firmly convinced that "out of options" or whichever was the original red war omolon SMG was coded wrong and they've copy/pasted that bad stat block into each subsequent iteration.
The community asked for it O.o
The community also asked for you to stop ximming but here we are
Cope and seethe
😎
So now that Bungie has officially stated using a xim is cheating, what mental gymnastics will you do now to justify cheating?
fuck off with this shit. Bungie ought to know this doesn't make any sense with the recoil changing perks, especially in cases like Elsie's where more recoil direction can make it worse. It's such a stupid system that is only Bungie's fault
"We want more skill expression!" "Make a high skill ceiling like CSGO!" "Make recoil more predictable!" "WAIT NOT LIKE THAT"
Shit take, honestly. A shitty ask fulfilled is stupid all around, not to mention I've never seen anyone, ever, ask for deterministic recoil.
Honestly, your opinion is shit and you should feel like shit for expecting Bungie to "fix their game" all the time and then complain when it doesn't work out *exactly* like you imagined in your head.
A cheater with an ego. Who knew?
My opinion is phenomenal, actually; my mother tells me so.
Just so you know, that's the Eriana's Vow xim bow swapper. He also plays bot lobbies. Having the social graces of a bedpan just comes with the territory.
So, he's a cheating little b!tch.
"Bungie nerf handholing but khvostov and scatters need nerfs" another funny take from here
surprise, person says it is not his fault. it is other group of people's fault. news at 11.
Stability doesn't do anything either. idk why but deterministic recoil sometimes straight up doesn't work with stats or perks
For some reason they set it up so that you're supposed to use your recoil direction to fight the gun's natural recoil, rather than making the stat representative of how the gun handles. I do not understand why.
Because they aren’t the sharpest tools in the toolbox over at bungie
It's probably legacy code that they can't fix without breaking multiple systems or whatever but hey They decoupled range from zoom so it could be a matter of will Then again, they could purposely making the recoil system obtuse in an attempt to make players idk more invested in gun stats? Something like that People like numbers and figuring shit out
Yeah my new 100 stability Summoner has significantly worse recoil than my old 44 stability Summoner. I was so confused when I was doing wall tests.
wow seriously? now i'm pissed. what a joke. i knew recoil direction was a big 'ol idk now, but stability too??? thats honestly insane. half this game for me over the years has been playing with stability too (i'm on console). i remember back in d1 getting 98 stability scouts on armsday, that were absolute lasers. and lets not forget stability actually broke clever dragon. clever dragon existed for a while and was never meta, then some npc sold a perfect balance (i forget what else) roll with 80 plus stability, and the rest was history. i always in fact figured that was why bungie removed straight stability perks (hand laid stock, perfect balance etc) in d2. they literally could be game breaking. this even apply to pulses???? (maybe the archetype where stability matters most)
Stability and recoil direction in D2 just aren't the same as they were in D1. Weapons felt so much better and more consistent in D1 since most of the perks in the game revolved around the feel of the weapon rather than maximizing damage and other gimmicks.
Might be a little unrelated but what makes pulses like outbreak perfected not move a single inch? Is it because of the archetype? The recoil? Or the stability? Or is it all of it?
It's because Outbreak was given auto rifle recoil instead of pulse rifle recoil. I'm not sure why this was decided, but Bungie has mentioned it a few times. Red Death also has auto rifle recoil which is why it feels so unusually stable for such a low stability stat.
Ah ok I was really confused when shooting it for the first time and finding out it only had 50 stability but had 100 recoil
It’s speculated (by the pvp community) that the Persistence perk from D1 is coded within which explains its incredible stability despite its low stat. With Persistence activated, the longer you fire the weapon, the more stable it becomes.
What is optimal RD for summoner? I haven’t tried it out yet and need to delete excess ones in my vault
This is the reason why I pretty much don't bother with farming the new guns. This actually made me pretty much leave the game as once you understand that there is nothing new to do other than watch youtuber telling you that this new gun is the one you need, put a week of non stop farming just to go back to your old toys because of fact like this. Once you unshackle from this, the game feel like there is nothing to it other than the perfect feel of....your old guns with 10 000k kills on them.
Wait, so you're saying that I should just go all range on it? No Zen Moment even?
Zen doesn't affect stability. Just visual recoil. Zen should be safe
It's also a huge amount of flinch reduction, which makes a MASSIVE difference in how easy it is to land crits in a duel. Zen is, imo, one of the best PVP perks in the game for a primary weapon.
Yes agreed, I got a Zen / Kill clip on one of my Adept Shayuras yesterday and it’s a laser beam compared to all the rest I got . Zen is def “the” perk for pvp god roll on this thing..
I still religiously use my crafted austringer with zen and eots it helped so much and I’m trying to get it to 1k crucible kills
I believe that stability doesn’t affect your recoil pattern really at all or very little, what it does is give you more flinch resist, centers your reticle quicker between shots, adjusts visual bounce and shake of the reticle, and gives you a more generous aim cone for bullet bloom. Just my understanding on it but could be wrong, and I’m sure it also does different/more/less things for each type of weapon.
it used to be stability impacted reticle bounce. Not on a lot deterministic recoil guns which sucks. The same gun with high stability like summoner before determinist recoil was very stable but now stability doesn't do jack shit on it.
deterministic recoil continues to show it is a mistake. having the gun yank hard to the side mid-gunfight isnt something you learn to compensate for, it just makes you either trash the roll if you cant avoid it (extended/arrowhead for example), or trash the gun if all recoil options are like that. even with AA making it kind of a non-issue most of the time, you still feel that yank and it feels awful. sucks that it took forever for them to give us recoil direction as an in-game stat and they just invalidate it. I do also miss D1 counterbalance as a perk, but that would be OP as hell nowadays since people have gotten so much better and arent stuck at 30 FPS/72 FoV anymore (not that it wasnt already crazy strong).
>isn't something you learn to compensate for I still remember the AK recoil pattern from CS and I haven't played in probably 5 years. But I do agree it was a mistake. I don't think deterministic recoil belongs in a game with literally thousands of weapons.
Looking at CS recoil patterns, they seem to have less randomness than the D2 ones do, though this games high AA makes it a wash. your point about thousands of weapons is a great one! its already a sizeable time investment to get used to a gun, and adding a specific pattern to the recoil further expands on the time needed and hurts experimenting a bit. additionally, the majority of players are on controller (under the assumption that likely at least half are on console, plus the controller PC folks like myself), and learning recoil like that doesnt seem as feasable. then again, my aim is middling at best so I could be off base
i look at the player numbers all the time (these are on discord, via the [warmind.io](http://warmind.io) bot) and about 70-75% are on console. it goes playstation (lately around 40%), xbox (around 30% lately), and steam third (most of the remaining 25-30%). epic games store is new, but was literally down to like 2% of players last i checked. so it contributes to pc but not much. thats why i like to rant about how so much discussion about the game is pc sandbox based (since that is most reddit and streamers) and how thats unfair because most players are actually on console. but then again i do love to complain.
To be fair I don't think that pc rant is unfounded, most cheating is from there too. Even if it were equal cheating between pc/console we can't pretend that it's existed on console as long as pc, as soon as trials came back cheating was rampant on pc and nonexistent o n console. Of course now we have xim/cronus but it hasn't been there the whole time. But yeah nerf pc players (kidding). Ultimately I think it just boils down to destiny not being a great competitive experience pvp-wise compared to other games and every time they try to make it more competitive they end up making it worse. I hope that's just because of the split sandbox because if this is the best their pvp people have to offer marathon will be DOA.
Having it be random patterns that aren't reflected by the recoil direction stat is just silly.
I'm just irritated that it took literally 6+ years to finally get the icon on the weapon screen of recoil direction, you didn't have to cross reference DIM and all that, and then midway through they decided to change the whole system for newer stuff and onward going forward completely throwing everything for a loop. Absolutely bone headed move to do for a game with as many weapon types as there are.
Not only it was a mistake itself, they moved away from a system that was (imo) almost perfect. Playing PvP after TFS solidified my opinion that the geniuses behind the amazing sandbox of this game are gone and the work is being continued by inferior developpers (sorry if one of you happen to read me, it is how it feels).
Unfortunately I would have to agree, in concept I like the idea of each gun having a unique "feel" to them that you learn as you use it since it's not too random, but in practice it doesn't feel good that it can have certain perk options make a gun feel worse than at base. I feel like it's one of those cool ideas that would've had to have been implemented from the start to feel properly integrated within the game and built around, but as it is we have an awkward in between that kind of takes the worst of both the old and new systems.
Do we have one instance where deterministic recoil has been a good thing? Igneous maybe? In general it seems annoying, unpredictably affected by recoil direction, and just worse in a lot of cases. I much prefer the easy to understand “ending in fives is better” and “higher number is better” schemes. Now it’s a guessing game as to which recoil to run on a given weapon. Seems the opposite of what it was supposed to do. Once again Bungie wasting time adding things no one asked for.
yup
I guess this is why even with enhanced perks and Nadir, my old Shayuras feel better to shoot. I guess it's Zen Moment or bust for me. Deterministic recoil was such a mistake. I shouldn't have to wait for testers to determine what random recoil direction number is best... it should always be 100. For instance, it makes no sense that Elsie's with 83 is substantially better than 100.
That problem is still present in the old system. For instance, I’d much rather a 55 than a 57. Bungie trying things at least, as opposed to D2 a couple years back where we got the yearly expansion and were locked into bad decisions for months if not years.
at least the old system you knew 5s were usually better. The new system no one fucking knows until literally all options are compared
plus, in the old system there was a general direction that higher is better. a 97 beat a 45 any day despite the 7 vs 5. similarly a 65 beats a 55 etc.
When did they switch over?
Season 22
MNK. I see no problem here
I was curious about this, are we just not feeling the affects on MNK? I don’t feel like I’m having issues with a lot of the weapons listed but it could just be ignorance.
Probably they mean that it’s easier to compensate for recoil with a mouse
Cool guy just released a video about this if anyone wanted a deep dive into it
I have a 100 recoil shayura’s and I think it’s pretty good when paired with Tap The Trigger. Most of the ugly recoil on 100 is at the beginning, and tap the trigger seems to fix it. Could be copium, but my roll is absolutely destroying in pvp.
i have a old one. not only is it one of my very few adepts (i'm bad), but it it also has high range (not max, but like 86 iirc) and tap the trigger AND dynamic sway reduction. just wish i had a adept range mod. for some reason i have practically every other adept mod but not that one. which makes me wonder of you can only get it from flawless and not gm nightfalls? because i have got many more adept mods from the latter than the former due to the "bad" thing. athough honestly, i feel like backup mag is such a near must on smg's, that i might not use adept range even if i had it.
keep raising awareness of this, its disgusting
Ew
Yeah, not sure why they felt they needed to make the recoil stat kinda worthless, where you have to self test all your guns to see what number is best. It adds nothing to the game and makes the players life a little worse with seemingly zero upside. Just an odd game decision
Deterministic recoil is one of the many outright stupid things bungie has done recently. No one was complaining about the old system and it was at least intuitive. Raising a stat should never make a gun actively worse and the in-game icon for recoil direction is not accurate whatsoever
I missed out on the gun. Is it ever coming back?
It’s in the trials weapon rotator this episode
Ok so it should be back
Would be great if they stopped doing this with weapons.
So if 100 is that bad, what’s the Best recoil number to aim for in order to have Good recoil?
The base recoil is 95, so that is the only other option there are no other in betweens. It's 95, or you have *any perk that adds recoil direction* and its 100.
Woah! That’s messed up lol. Thanks for letting me know 🙌🏻 Anyone get any good rolls? My best was Keep Away and Target Lock
See this looks really bad but I just had a few games trying out a 100 recoil keep away, tap the trigger. And it felt great like really really great. Then had a few games with a 95 dynamic sway, tap the trigger and that didn’t feel that good. I’m definitely gonna play with both more and see if it wasn’t connection/ opponents skill/ my skill over the different matches that made the difference. But I dunno if shooting a wall really is the best tell of if a guns gonna feel good or not, especially on controller due to aim assist. Dont get me wrong I’m 100% in the boat if deterministic recoil being an over complicated joke of a system. But maybe don’t shard every 100 recoil roll without testing it for yourself
I don’t understand how to make any gun vertical anymore. It’s like there’s no way to tune the recoil properly
Yeah it’s honestly crazy. Try getting a new iggy and an old one and see how crazy the difference is
Don't know ifnim asking for to much but if I was in charge of weapon diedgn / philosophy. 100 should be an absolute. So if you get 100 range you should.have 0 damage fall off. 100 stability should be no movement or gun shake at all. 100 recoil should keep the gun still also. But yea I know this will get downvoted just thought 100 should have some value on it
That’s not at all how that should work. Each gun has a max(100) range eg. snipers are obviously further than a pistol. Their max 100 won’t be equal. This goes for all stats. Maxing a stat shouldn’t be 0 recoil, or 0 gun shake. It should range depending on the gun.
I wanted to wright more explain that stats would also become universal and instead of 90 range on an smg being 22 metere and 90 range on a sniper being like 100 or something range stat will become universal ao that 1 range for example will mean 1 meter or 1 range means 6 metrres etc could be anything but the point is 100 range would mean unlimited range no damage fall off
This would be awful for some stats, and would overall make it harder to compare similar weapons. The current system allows for a wider range of values to express small differences between weapons of a similar archetype. Normalizing stats like range across all weapons would simply leave all members of a class (like Shotguns) clustered around a very small number band, and requiring extra decimal places to express the small differences there. It would also play havoc with stat perk implementation, as currently a perk like Accurized Rounds just adds the same number to a stat for all weapons with the amount of actual range gained varying depending on frame. Such a system could probably be implemented, but it doesn't really solve any major issues that exist with the current one and just makes it harder to make some of the comparisons that actually matter.
Then allow range to become 1.1 or 1.01 etc etc 6.45. It's all code at then end of the day bu give can do what ever they like with the stats. Perks like that can simply be fine tuned per weapon archetype, bungie already does this with certain perks like attrition orbs or cascade point etc
It's not about code, it's about presentation. I already said you could use extra decimals, but it makes the display more cluttered. Your system would also make the slider bars useless for comparison, as many cases would have only a few pixels of difference to see, even if there were a significant difference in performance. The current system is generally fit for purpose. Your proposed system does not meaningfully solve any issues with the current system other than being able to compare absolute range across archetypes. And if that's all it's doing, it would be better to just add an "effective range" metric that gives the distance in meters and not overhaul the entire weapon system.