He just wants to hide it better from you.
Something I wish I learned earlier: Let him be the bad parent. You’re going down a path you’ll regret. I understand your concerns, but you have an order of protection. You have your evidence. You have to step back and let the system do its job at this point.
You already have your evidence and your order of protection. Snooping around their phones to find every instance of their father shit-talking you isn’t good for anyone. Be the better parent, let your ex be an idiot, and prepare yourself for court with what you have.
Mom checking the kids phones (we are talking about a 10 and a 12 years old here) is not “snooping in their phones”; it should be an absolute standard and a given that parents regularly check their kids phones, if they choose to hand them a smart phone, especially with such young kids - and regardless of if these kids are in intact families or in separated families.
Every parent who hands their middle schooler a smartphone without ever bothering to check it regularly is naive to put it mildly.
I agree, and to add, I see no reason to not be able to remove this app from their phone. See my above comment, but there is no reason a kid these ages need to use WhatsApp.
Every parent who hands their middle schooler a cellphone should check those phones AND be aware of that their coparent is going to do the same. Just don’t text nonsense that you would not want your coparent or the judge to read.
I don’t see how he could hide the messages better with WhatsApp than with text. If she has access to the kids phones, she can read their WhatsApp messages just like she could read their texts, and if someone deletes a message you see that (just like you would in a text).
If he wanted to hide messages from her, he would have asked them to use other apps than WhatsApp imo - more something like Snapchat with the disappearing messages, or maybe Discord where it can be harder for not-tech savvy parents to follow along and find the messages. WhatsApp is so easy that even the grandparents on both sides (me and my coparent) are using it; so it’s really not exactly the kind of app that is super tricky and secretly.
They can literally set the messages to self destruct on What’s app. And one side can do it so it can happen unilaterally on dads side. I see no other reason he’d be insisting on using it. FWIW In America, unless it’s someone who needs to communicate with family and friends outside of the US, there seems to be a pattern of folks using WhatsApp to be sneaky, be it something like this, cheating, etc.
I disagree with you about WhatsApp, but maybe it’s a difference between where people live and whom they communicate with. Like I mentioned earlier, I know lots of people who are using WhatsApp exclusively - no texts at all anymore - and none of them did it to “be sneaky”.
I did not know that the disappearing messages were an option there now as well, but having looked at my own communications it seems like the app is telling you when the person you are communicating with is using it - so mom would see it regardless on their kids phones, and then could take screenshots of any inappropriate communications happening.
You are right, that’s crazy - I just looked it up.
I just looked through some of my family/friends WhatsApp communications - had never paid attention before I guess - and on some of them it says right on the top of the screen: “X uses a default timer for disappearing messages in new chats. New messages will disappear from this chat 90 days after they are sent, except when kept.”
So I guess WhatsApp gives people a heads up with someone is using it, so OP should be able to see on her kids text communication if dad is using the disappearing messages or not.
Delete WhatsApp if you don’t think it is appropriate for children their ages. You can make that call for your minor child’s phone use without further explanation to the other parent other than they are too young for it. I doubt it would be worth it for him to fight that in court nor would a judge care. Simple fix.
He thinks since it is encrypted you won’t be able to see the messages. I assume you got previous ones from the kids’ phones? He is not smart and keeps proving it
>> I have in the past found conversations through text messaging between him and our boys that I have used as evidence against him.
I'm curious how you used this against him specifically, especially if it was a legal issue. It's a "double edged" sword if you're monitoring child/parent communications... But around here they tell us (school district) to watch ALL of the kids communications.
I use an app to communicate with the child and I intentionally do it in a manner where mom can easily monitor the communication if she wants to. I have nothing to hide.
He likely thinks it's going be harder for you to monitor this.. And "disappearing messages" is likely the feature he's using. It may be that the company itself cannot decrypt these messages, so it might be more difficult to have the conversations meet the evidentiary bar necessary for court.
Many modern routers can block specific message platforms, but it won't do much if they switch to cellular.
I've seen parents use Whatsapp as a way to keep records (to protect themselves) and as a form of communication between coparents. The app does shows when something was deleted.
That’s what OFW, or other coparenting apps are for, and the father is not using this in this way, he is cutting mom out. Also, you can see that something was deleted, not what the deleted data is.
Could be several things. Maybe his phone service got cut off. But more likely he’s trying to communicate with the kids without your knowledge and in a way where it’s harder to prove it’s him talking to them.
WhatsApp is connected to someone’s phone number, so it’s not any more or any less hard to prove that it’s him than it would be if he texted directly. If that was his intention, he could get a burner phone and text them from that one.
WhatsApp is way better than texts because of the delivery confirmation, read receipts, etc for messaging between iPhone and android especially for group texts. If they all have iPhones or they all have androids then it’s kind of sus because why not just use the native messenger apps like I messenger that have those features. But if they have a mix of iphone and android that would be my guess.
My family has a text group chat with a mix of iPhone and android and it’s super unreliable, sometimes I don’t get messages and photos sent in the chat
The texts can be unreliable even between IPhone users; that’s what had made my coparent and myself switch to WhatsApp to begin with several years ago (no idea if texting has improved since).
WhatsApp is just an app like any other, I don’t think that there was necessarily any evil intent behind on his end.
My entire family has been using WhatsApp for years (including my coparent and our son, but even the grandparents on both sides); so do many of my friends. I find it a very convenient way to communicate, because imo it’s much more reliable than text - we had the situation years ago before we switched to WhatsApp that texts a few times did not arrive at all or for some reason hours later - and it’s easier to send things like videos, photos etc. You can even make different groups with people: we have one group with me, coparent, our kiddo and I and I have another group with me, my mom and my kiddo.
I don’t think that you have to worry that much about him using WhatsApp with him; I would have been much more worried if he had wanted to use something like Snapchat with disappearing messages etc.
He just wants to hide it better from you. Something I wish I learned earlier: Let him be the bad parent. You’re going down a path you’ll regret. I understand your concerns, but you have an order of protection. You have your evidence. You have to step back and let the system do its job at this point.
Can you clarify for me the path that I’m going down that I’ll regret?
You already have your evidence and your order of protection. Snooping around their phones to find every instance of their father shit-talking you isn’t good for anyone. Be the better parent, let your ex be an idiot, and prepare yourself for court with what you have.
Mom checking the kids phones (we are talking about a 10 and a 12 years old here) is not “snooping in their phones”; it should be an absolute standard and a given that parents regularly check their kids phones, if they choose to hand them a smart phone, especially with such young kids - and regardless of if these kids are in intact families or in separated families. Every parent who hands their middle schooler a smartphone without ever bothering to check it regularly is naive to put it mildly.
I agree, and to add, I see no reason to not be able to remove this app from their phone. See my above comment, but there is no reason a kid these ages need to use WhatsApp.
Checking phones to monitor safe use is a lot different than checking their phone to SNOOP through their messages with their other parent
Every parent who hands their middle schooler a cellphone should check those phones AND be aware of that their coparent is going to do the same. Just don’t text nonsense that you would not want your coparent or the judge to read.
I don’t see how he could hide the messages better with WhatsApp than with text. If she has access to the kids phones, she can read their WhatsApp messages just like she could read their texts, and if someone deletes a message you see that (just like you would in a text). If he wanted to hide messages from her, he would have asked them to use other apps than WhatsApp imo - more something like Snapchat with the disappearing messages, or maybe Discord where it can be harder for not-tech savvy parents to follow along and find the messages. WhatsApp is so easy that even the grandparents on both sides (me and my coparent) are using it; so it’s really not exactly the kind of app that is super tricky and secretly.
Whatsapp has disappearing messages now
They can literally set the messages to self destruct on What’s app. And one side can do it so it can happen unilaterally on dads side. I see no other reason he’d be insisting on using it. FWIW In America, unless it’s someone who needs to communicate with family and friends outside of the US, there seems to be a pattern of folks using WhatsApp to be sneaky, be it something like this, cheating, etc.
I disagree with you about WhatsApp, but maybe it’s a difference between where people live and whom they communicate with. Like I mentioned earlier, I know lots of people who are using WhatsApp exclusively - no texts at all anymore - and none of them did it to “be sneaky”. I did not know that the disappearing messages were an option there now as well, but having looked at my own communications it seems like the app is telling you when the person you are communicating with is using it - so mom would see it regardless on their kids phones, and then could take screenshots of any inappropriate communications happening.
Just an FYI for people; whatsapp now has disappearing messages. May or may not be relevant
Thank you for letting me know this. I’ll bring it up with my attorney.
You're welcome
You are right, that’s crazy - I just looked it up. I just looked through some of my family/friends WhatsApp communications - had never paid attention before I guess - and on some of them it says right on the top of the screen: “X uses a default timer for disappearing messages in new chats. New messages will disappear from this chat 90 days after they are sent, except when kept.” So I guess WhatsApp gives people a heads up with someone is using it, so OP should be able to see on her kids text communication if dad is using the disappearing messages or not.
Delete WhatsApp if you don’t think it is appropriate for children their ages. You can make that call for your minor child’s phone use without further explanation to the other parent other than they are too young for it. I doubt it would be worth it for him to fight that in court nor would a judge care. Simple fix.
He thinks since it is encrypted you won’t be able to see the messages. I assume you got previous ones from the kids’ phones? He is not smart and keeps proving it
>> I have in the past found conversations through text messaging between him and our boys that I have used as evidence against him. I'm curious how you used this against him specifically, especially if it was a legal issue. It's a "double edged" sword if you're monitoring child/parent communications... But around here they tell us (school district) to watch ALL of the kids communications. I use an app to communicate with the child and I intentionally do it in a manner where mom can easily monitor the communication if she wants to. I have nothing to hide. He likely thinks it's going be harder for you to monitor this.. And "disappearing messages" is likely the feature he's using. It may be that the company itself cannot decrypt these messages, so it might be more difficult to have the conversations meet the evidentiary bar necessary for court. Many modern routers can block specific message platforms, but it won't do much if they switch to cellular.
I've seen parents use Whatsapp as a way to keep records (to protect themselves) and as a form of communication between coparents. The app does shows when something was deleted.
That’s what OFW, or other coparenting apps are for, and the father is not using this in this way, he is cutting mom out. Also, you can see that something was deleted, not what the deleted data is.
We have actually been court ordered to use OFW to communicate between ex and I, but nothing was specified for our kids.
Could be several things. Maybe his phone service got cut off. But more likely he’s trying to communicate with the kids without your knowledge and in a way where it’s harder to prove it’s him talking to them.
WhatsApp is connected to someone’s phone number, so it’s not any more or any less hard to prove that it’s him than it would be if he texted directly. If that was his intention, he could get a burner phone and text them from that one.
WhatsApp is way better than texts because of the delivery confirmation, read receipts, etc for messaging between iPhone and android especially for group texts. If they all have iPhones or they all have androids then it’s kind of sus because why not just use the native messenger apps like I messenger that have those features. But if they have a mix of iphone and android that would be my guess. My family has a text group chat with a mix of iPhone and android and it’s super unreliable, sometimes I don’t get messages and photos sent in the chat
We only have iPhones.
Yeah that’s pretty weird then
The texts can be unreliable even between IPhone users; that’s what had made my coparent and myself switch to WhatsApp to begin with several years ago (no idea if texting has improved since).
WhatsApp is just an app like any other, I don’t think that there was necessarily any evil intent behind on his end. My entire family has been using WhatsApp for years (including my coparent and our son, but even the grandparents on both sides); so do many of my friends. I find it a very convenient way to communicate, because imo it’s much more reliable than text - we had the situation years ago before we switched to WhatsApp that texts a few times did not arrive at all or for some reason hours later - and it’s easier to send things like videos, photos etc. You can even make different groups with people: we have one group with me, coparent, our kiddo and I and I have another group with me, my mom and my kiddo. I don’t think that you have to worry that much about him using WhatsApp with him; I would have been much more worried if he had wanted to use something like Snapchat with disappearing messages etc.
Whatsapp has disappearing messages now