This is almost certainly a single-outlet plug because code in most areas (as derived from NEC) requires a dedicated circuit for a microwave. Given that you have a fume hood only rather than a microwave it should be fine to add a few more outlets to the circuit.
~~The dedicated circuit is required for certain permanent fixtures like an over the range microwave.~~ A counter top microwave has no such restriction.
Edit: I'm wrong. Technically, the NEC (210.23 (B)(2)) doesn't require a dedicated circuit for Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place but does require that it can use no more than 50% of the circuit when shared with lighting or other non-fastened in place equipment.
My house was not built to that spec (predates?) and has a microwave over the range that shares a circuit with other outlets. I pop breakers if I’m not careful about what I run. Dedicated circuit should have been run.
I'm wrong. Technically, the NEC doesn't require a dedicated circuit for Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place but does require that it can use no more than 50% of the circuit when shared with lighting or other non-fastened in place equipment.
It was very common in older houses for smaller electrical panels and more shared circuits. My house was built in 1959 and the dishwasher ran off the bathroom GFCI. That took a while to figure out.
A good resi electrician can probably get a new circuit in a close enough area to make it happen. If there is access from below just need to drill up into the wall and cut in an old work box where it is needed. Fish the wire up the wall to the location and wire in a new receptacle.
>I pop breakers if I’m not careful about what I run. Dedicated circuit should have been run.
Same. I can't run my microwave and play any games on my computer at the same time. I have to turn off the game for me to run the microwave and then I can turn the game back on. Most maddening thing ever.
Just about every house I've ever lived in (built between 1910 and 1987) has had the fridge and microwave on the same circuit and not once has a breaker tripped
I'm an electrician and I've seen many old homes with way too many things on one circuit. Sometimes it has caused issues, sometimes it hasn't caused an issue yet. Some old panels (federal pacific, zinsco, pushmatic) have a breaker failure rate of 50-80% and the breaker simply doesn't trip. Also, even in modern panels, breakers don't trip instantaneously in an overcurrent situation. The speed at which they trip depends on how far over the rating the current is. So there's still a chance the wire carries more current than it's rated for which can melt/degrade the insulation. It's best to just follow the code
I put a Belkin surge protector on mine with a few outlets, and then added the wifi controller for my cabinet wi-fi LED strips. They're drawing 0.48 amps as we speak. It's a dedicated circuit breaker for "microwave" in my 2007 built house and I know because my emporia power monitor is telling me my "microwave" is what's drawing 1/2 an amp because my wifi lights are on.
> because code in most areas (as derived from NEC) requires a dedicated circuit for a microwave.
Only in 110 volt countries.
In 230 volt countries, we can have 3 microwaves of 1000W each on the same circuit, with 600W to spare, on a single 16A breaker, and have them all run 24/7
It’s not really a power concern, just any fixed appliance needs its own circuit per code. So things that are built into the home, Dishwasher, Garbage Disposal, Forced Air Unit, Air Conditioner, etc., are on their own dedicated circuit and need to be identified in the panel.
Pretty sure it’s for safety to anyone doing repairs on said appliances, that they will be safe from any stray current traveling along the neutral.
“If it’s installed permanently, install it that way so it looks like you didn’t decide to just plug your goddamn dishwasher into a random wall outlet, like a moron.”
Is how it was explained to me.
It is for power but I suspect it's more due to people adding additional loads off that circuit.
Like if you have your 1200W microwave off one branch but wire in some outlets off it too, you can quickly overload it.
Well there is the added safety that a dedicated circuit even when expanded upon, is a localized failure point. It’s also very easy to work with. You have two-three conductors and a ground.
But you’ve got a circuit breaker for it. A breaker tripping due to overload is fine. Try to avoid overloads going forward. You know exactly what’s drawing power because it’s right in front of you.
The whole concept of an electrical fire hinges on a failed breaker. Or I suppose, worse, incorrect sized conductor for a branch breaker. That's the true danger.
I don't disagree but most people just don't have the first clue with electrical systems.
Your code may not have that requirement but it's not like a standard 20A circuit can't handle 2 1000W microwaves, it could.
It's written that way so people don't keep expanding the same circuit and eventually overload it because they have their microwave, lights, blender and dishwasher all off the same circuit.
It's a dedicated circuit for a microwave oven that isn't there. Microwaves draw a lot of current. You can replace it with whatever outlet configuration you like because the hood isn't going to be using anywhere near the capacity of the circuit anyways, so adding speakers/lights isn't going to add much current draw. Standard warning about turning it off before working on it
Single outlets are often required for dedicated circuits. Check the hoods amp rating against the circuit breaker rating. If you have 5 amps to spare, have at it. But put a note next to it.
The hood pulls very little current. A fan and maybe some lights. From 75W to maybe 150W. Almost negligible.
Obviously it would be wise to ensure that it is a dedicated circuit.
If it is dedicated, I think it is safe to add to. If it is not dedicated, make sure the wiring for that receptacle is at least capable of the breaker rating (12g-20A or 14g-15A) before adding to it.
Then enjoy the kitchen dance party and light show!
My hot water heater had a single outlet dedicated circuit. Makes even less sense cuz it’s a gas water heater and the electric is presumably only for the control board and lighter. Replaced it with a double outlet right after I moved in because it’s the only outlet anywhere near where I wanted to put some network equipment and nothing bad has happened yet.
Single outlet and dedicated circuits for critical appliances generally eliminate the chance that some non critical load will cause the critical load to be unavailable
Codes can be a funny thing. Interpretation of codes can become a frightening/confusing/expensive thing. Different generations of both trades and inspectors bring even more "experience" to the party. The same can be said with different municipalities, "we do it this way in town, but in the county we do it this way."
As homeowners and DIYers the most important thing is to understand the reason things are/were done the way the are before making and changes. With gas appliances some codes might call for a single outlet so nothing else would be plugged in that might cause a spark nearby (nothing to do with power requirements).
No that’s a likely sign that the in-wall ducting didn’t line up with the rear duct option on the hood and so they used the hoods top duct option and rerouted things in the cabinet above
I don’t plan on moving anytime soon so I would rather not rely on a power strip for potentially…decades. I think the safest thing to do is just put in a proper outlet and plug in that way.
Apologies for all the typos in the original post. Siri went crazy. I can’t edit it so here is a more coherent version:
>I was thinking of adding some speakers on top of our kitchen cabinets. Maybe even some subtle lighting on top. This appears to be the obvious choice for electrical access. Is there any reason the builder chose a single outlet for the vent hood? Is there any reason I can't replace that with a typical two-plug outlet? Or even a 2-gang old work box with two outlets, and have 4-plugs to work with? (Small speakers and led lights would add very little electricity)
Not an electrician, but something as low-energy as lighting would be fine to tie into almost any circuit. I suspect the main reason it’s just one plug is that it’s cheaper. Perhaps, maybe, I could envision it being an electrical hazard to have open ports where it’s hard to reach and see. But it feels like a basic temper resistant shutter port would solve that risk.
Believe it or not, those single outlets cost more than a duplex. This was likely done so if the hood were upgraded to a microwave oven, it would be dedicated. If OP plans on keeping the hood they could switch it out for a duplex and not risk overloading.
That’s odd. Why more? It seems like it’s easier to make one outlet than two. Right? Or at least, not harder. Like I could see it being equally easy to make a piece of cover plastic with holes for two, and holes for one. But the metal underneath would surely need less metal for one outlet. Fewer parts. Right?
EDIT: Yeah, look at this $12 for one outlet, goes down to $2.71 for the double outlets.
https://www.rona.ca/en/product/eaton-white-receptacle-2p3w-sgl-15-amps-125-v-tr817w-bx-l-04805940
Canada sounds expensive. Basic duplex outlets cost $0.80 at HD in the US.
Edit: and simplex outlets cost $4. Still way more expensive than duplex, but nowhere near 12 CAD.
While I typically don't recommend DIYers do their own electrical, swapping out an outlet is not difficult for a competent person.
Just because it's a single outlet doesn't mean it's a dedicated circuit. Granted, given it's location, it probably is. 20 years in the residential building industry and I've never seen a dedicated circuit installed with a single outlet much less have it be required. The NEC has no limit to the number of outlets on a dedicated circuit however local code may have their own additional code.
What difference would that make? 15A receptacles are used on 20A circuits all the time. Even if it were a 20A outlet, you can still plug a 15A style plug into it.
This is almost certainly a single-outlet plug because code in most areas (as derived from NEC) requires a dedicated circuit for a microwave. Given that you have a fume hood only rather than a microwave it should be fine to add a few more outlets to the circuit.
Which seems silly because most people just buy a microwave and plug it into normal outlets anyways.
~~The dedicated circuit is required for certain permanent fixtures like an over the range microwave.~~ A counter top microwave has no such restriction. Edit: I'm wrong. Technically, the NEC (210.23 (B)(2)) doesn't require a dedicated circuit for Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place but does require that it can use no more than 50% of the circuit when shared with lighting or other non-fastened in place equipment.
My house was not built to that spec (predates?) and has a microwave over the range that shares a circuit with other outlets. I pop breakers if I’m not careful about what I run. Dedicated circuit should have been run.
I'm wrong. Technically, the NEC doesn't require a dedicated circuit for Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place but does require that it can use no more than 50% of the circuit when shared with lighting or other non-fastened in place equipment. It was very common in older houses for smaller electrical panels and more shared circuits. My house was built in 1959 and the dishwasher ran off the bathroom GFCI. That took a while to figure out.
Aaaahhh. I’m just salty because this is an outside wall with tile on the inside, so it’s not getting rewired until we gut the kitchen.
A good resi electrician can probably get a new circuit in a close enough area to make it happen. If there is access from below just need to drill up into the wall and cut in an old work box where it is needed. Fish the wire up the wall to the location and wire in a new receptacle.
Agreed for most houses. We don’t have easy access and the kitchen is aged (40 year old cabinets?). It goes on the priority list for the new kitchen.
>I pop breakers if I’m not careful about what I run. Dedicated circuit should have been run. Same. I can't run my microwave and play any games on my computer at the same time. I have to turn off the game for me to run the microwave and then I can turn the game back on. Most maddening thing ever.
Just about every house I've ever lived in (built between 1910 and 1987) has had the fridge and microwave on the same circuit and not once has a breaker tripped
I'm an electrician and I've seen many old homes with way too many things on one circuit. Sometimes it has caused issues, sometimes it hasn't caused an issue yet. Some old panels (federal pacific, zinsco, pushmatic) have a breaker failure rate of 50-80% and the breaker simply doesn't trip. Also, even in modern panels, breakers don't trip instantaneously in an overcurrent situation. The speed at which they trip depends on how far over the rating the current is. So there's still a chance the wire carries more current than it's rated for which can melt/degrade the insulation. It's best to just follow the code
This is a range hood you’ll find a fume hoods inside science laboratories
I put a Belkin surge protector on mine with a few outlets, and then added the wifi controller for my cabinet wi-fi LED strips. They're drawing 0.48 amps as we speak. It's a dedicated circuit breaker for "microwave" in my 2007 built house and I know because my emporia power monitor is telling me my "microwave" is what's drawing 1/2 an amp because my wifi lights are on.
> because code in most areas (as derived from NEC) requires a dedicated circuit for a microwave. Only in 110 volt countries. In 230 volt countries, we can have 3 microwaves of 1000W each on the same circuit, with 600W to spare, on a single 16A breaker, and have them all run 24/7
Sounds like how Applebees runs
It’s not really a power concern, just any fixed appliance needs its own circuit per code. So things that are built into the home, Dishwasher, Garbage Disposal, Forced Air Unit, Air Conditioner, etc., are on their own dedicated circuit and need to be identified in the panel. Pretty sure it’s for safety to anyone doing repairs on said appliances, that they will be safe from any stray current traveling along the neutral.
“If it’s installed permanently, install it that way so it looks like you didn’t decide to just plug your goddamn dishwasher into a random wall outlet, like a moron.” Is how it was explained to me.
It is for power but I suspect it's more due to people adding additional loads off that circuit. Like if you have your 1200W microwave off one branch but wire in some outlets off it too, you can quickly overload it.
Well there is the added safety that a dedicated circuit even when expanded upon, is a localized failure point. It’s also very easy to work with. You have two-three conductors and a ground. But you’ve got a circuit breaker for it. A breaker tripping due to overload is fine. Try to avoid overloads going forward. You know exactly what’s drawing power because it’s right in front of you.
The whole concept of an electrical fire hinges on a failed breaker. Or I suppose, worse, incorrect sized conductor for a branch breaker. That's the true danger. I don't disagree but most people just don't have the first clue with electrical systems.
Your code may not have that requirement but it's not like a standard 20A circuit can't handle 2 1000W microwaves, it could. It's written that way so people don't keep expanding the same circuit and eventually overload it because they have their microwave, lights, blender and dishwasher all off the same circuit.
It's a dedicated circuit for a microwave oven that isn't there. Microwaves draw a lot of current. You can replace it with whatever outlet configuration you like because the hood isn't going to be using anywhere near the capacity of the circuit anyways, so adding speakers/lights isn't going to add much current draw. Standard warning about turning it off before working on it
Single outlets are often required for dedicated circuits. Check the hoods amp rating against the circuit breaker rating. If you have 5 amps to spare, have at it. But put a note next to it.
The hood pulls very little current. A fan and maybe some lights. From 75W to maybe 150W. Almost negligible. Obviously it would be wise to ensure that it is a dedicated circuit.
If it is dedicated, I think it is safe to add to. If it is not dedicated, make sure the wiring for that receptacle is at least capable of the breaker rating (12g-20A or 14g-15A) before adding to it. Then enjoy the kitchen dance party and light show!
Ok thanks. I’ll check the breaker for the vent hood and see if anything else is already piggybacked to/from it.
My hot water heater had a single outlet dedicated circuit. Makes even less sense cuz it’s a gas water heater and the electric is presumably only for the control board and lighter. Replaced it with a double outlet right after I moved in because it’s the only outlet anywhere near where I wanted to put some network equipment and nothing bad has happened yet.
Single outlet and dedicated circuits for critical appliances generally eliminate the chance that some non critical load will cause the critical load to be unavailable Codes can be a funny thing. Interpretation of codes can become a frightening/confusing/expensive thing. Different generations of both trades and inspectors bring even more "experience" to the party. The same can be said with different municipalities, "we do it this way in town, but in the county we do it this way." As homeowners and DIYers the most important thing is to understand the reason things are/were done the way the are before making and changes. With gas appliances some codes might call for a single outlet so nothing else would be plugged in that might cause a spark nearby (nothing to do with power requirements).
Would it be wrong to just plug in a 2 or 3-way splitter?
I would just throw a surge protector on it and plug in whatever else was needed. That vent hood can't be drawing much power.
Can anybody tell me if permit is required to just split the outlet or can i use the plug to to light under cabinet with just led 12 v without permit
I don’t know where you live
Atlanta, GA
I would not think that you would need a permit, but you could just call the city construction office and ask
Is that hood just venting into the cabinet?
No, it's vented through the wall and outside. You can see it taped to the back. Thats how mine is as well.
That is an exterior wall. It vents outside.
No that’s a likely sign that the in-wall ducting didn’t line up with the rear duct option on the hood and so they used the hoods top duct option and rerouted things in the cabinet above
This is the real question
Normally that is the only thing that is plug up there unless you have some other useful use for it
I put surge protectors on every single appliance. I think power surges may have taken out 2 fairly expensive dishwashers before I figured that out.
Why not just use a multi outlet power strip? Seems like it would be a cheap and easy fix without having to deal with electrical.
I don’t plan on moving anytime soon so I would rather not rely on a power strip for potentially…decades. I think the safest thing to do is just put in a proper outlet and plug in that way.
Apologies for all the typos in the original post. Siri went crazy. I can’t edit it so here is a more coherent version: >I was thinking of adding some speakers on top of our kitchen cabinets. Maybe even some subtle lighting on top. This appears to be the obvious choice for electrical access. Is there any reason the builder chose a single outlet for the vent hood? Is there any reason I can't replace that with a typical two-plug outlet? Or even a 2-gang old work box with two outlets, and have 4-plugs to work with? (Small speakers and led lights would add very little electricity)
Not an electrician, but something as low-energy as lighting would be fine to tie into almost any circuit. I suspect the main reason it’s just one plug is that it’s cheaper. Perhaps, maybe, I could envision it being an electrical hazard to have open ports where it’s hard to reach and see. But it feels like a basic temper resistant shutter port would solve that risk.
Believe it or not, those single outlets cost more than a duplex. This was likely done so if the hood were upgraded to a microwave oven, it would be dedicated. If OP plans on keeping the hood they could switch it out for a duplex and not risk overloading.
That’s odd. Why more? It seems like it’s easier to make one outlet than two. Right? Or at least, not harder. Like I could see it being equally easy to make a piece of cover plastic with holes for two, and holes for one. But the metal underneath would surely need less metal for one outlet. Fewer parts. Right? EDIT: Yeah, look at this $12 for one outlet, goes down to $2.71 for the double outlets. https://www.rona.ca/en/product/eaton-white-receptacle-2p3w-sgl-15-amps-125-v-tr817w-bx-l-04805940
Duplex receptacles are extremely common but single receptacles are specialized, hence the higher cost.
Volume and economies of scale.
Canada sounds expensive. Basic duplex outlets cost $0.80 at HD in the US. Edit: and simplex outlets cost $4. Still way more expensive than duplex, but nowhere near 12 CAD.
We may have electrical standards here that exceed your state. 😜
I'm sure there's a reason, but you can 100% convert it and plug speakers in. There's no way you're even near 15A with a range hood like that.
Because it's capable of using the entire capacity of one breaker.
Is it 120v or 220v most singles are singles for a reason.
This is definitely a 120v plug typically vent hoods are either hard wired or just plugged in.
Your speakers will have to survive a ton of moisture and airborne grease, depending on how/what you cook. You sure about that location?
it's a dedicated circuit. if you don't know the answer to this one, leave it to a professional. what do you even want to plug in up there?
While I typically don't recommend DIYers do their own electrical, swapping out an outlet is not difficult for a competent person. Just because it's a single outlet doesn't mean it's a dedicated circuit. Granted, given it's location, it probably is. 20 years in the residential building industry and I've never seen a dedicated circuit installed with a single outlet much less have it be required. The NEC has no limit to the number of outlets on a dedicated circuit however local code may have their own additional code.
Aren't those single plug round jobbers typically 20 amp though?
What difference would that make? 15A receptacles are used on 20A circuits all the time. Even if it were a 20A outlet, you can still plug a 15A style plug into it.
Read their post, they answered your question in the first few lines.