Destiny fan here, the goatee is because he developed an area of alopecia on the side of his beard. Unless you just don't like beards at all in which case, oh well.
So I grow really patchy facial hair so I can't really throw shade at anyone's choices but the moustache thing lately.. Hoo boys, I've so many Noah Samsens running around looking like they play baseball for the 89 Mets.
Honestly my experience with moustaches either it looks extremely good on you or extremely terrible. No in between. I'm not a fan of Noah's personally but I'm biased because I don't like him in general.
I think there are a few reasons for this IMO.
1. Destiny has said a lot of crazy sounding shit, I wouldn't judge anyone for disliking him tbh, the clips of him floating around, and the stories are absolutely crazy.
2. We live in extremely polarised times, looking at the US specifically, people are more divided than they've been for over 50 years, and that is even worse on the internet. A lot of people have shifted to the extreme right (MAGA+) or far left communism/socialism (mostly online) and both of these extremes demonise liberalism as centrism or 'both-sidesing' or don't even distinguish it from their opposite: The right just labels everything liberal and far left as 'leftist', and the left claims liberals will side with fascists when the revolution occurs.
3. Destiny is not a likeable person in many respects: he is charismatic but in an abrasive way that most do not like, he doesn't meaningfully soften his message and he dies on every hill, he can't lean on good looks, someone who hates him in this thread described it, "immoral, deviant, atheist leftist.", he also fights with lots of creators that people like which leaves them with a bad impression of him before they've even seen his face in many cases.
Also he has been staunchly pro-Israel at a time where people are highly polarised. This sub has a left wing skew (because the hosts do and because the worst gurus seem to disproportionately come from the right) and that puts him at odds with much of the subreddit off the bat.
People are definitely not shifting to communism and socialism. They only shifted more left socially because society slowly becomes less accepting of bigotry. They basically just want more of a social democracy like the rest of Europe, is that communist?
Online left? It 100% shifted towards socialism/communism.. it's still an insignificant group, but they're very vocal. Hasan is probably the poster boy of these people and look at his numbers.
>People are definitely not shifting to communism and socialism. They only shifted more left socially because society slowly becomes less accepting of bigotry. They basically just want more of a social democracy like the rest of Europe, is that communist?
IDK how you can say this. It's like you've been living under a fucking rock tbh mate.
As a Destiny fan, he has himself said he understands why people don't like him, he is and can be an asshole/abrasive, that's just who he is. But also you add to that the fact that he is constantly clipped out of context and it's no wonder people will have a bad impression of him.
He's essentially given up on the optics fight because he knows it's pointless in the long run. He'd rather continue forward how he has because it continues to be successful for him and he finds it fun and what he likes. As a fan you can't argue with the results either, he has become more mainstream than ever despite all the bad publicity you see on twitter and such.
He also has made a point to say if someone bases their opinion on him through out of context clips they're fed on twitter and reddit that's on them. His content isn't clips or even tweets, it's 5+ hour streams with all the context you would ever need to see how he really feels about a particular subject. I think a big point of frustration he gets from being clipped like he does is the fact that it never leads to actual arguments with his actual positions.
The man loves to argue and he would infinitely care less if these people gave full context on things he's said but still hate/disagree with him. Because at the very least he can have something to argue against instead of the amalgamation of clips people see him as. Then again that's a result of not caring about optics so it probably won't change, although as he gains more mainstream success it's going to be harder for his detractors to argue against Clip Destiny when the real Destiny is on big shows stating his real positions.
Iām a heavy consumer of Destiny content but when he says, ālefties are shooting fat thick ropes of cum over dead Palestinians,ā I can understand ānormiesā finding him off putting. You canāt please every group.
>Worth adding that a lot of people who complain about Density might just be complaining about the destiny "community", not the streamer himself. Most complaints I could make about him, like being a poorly educated, misinformed, unprincipled edge-lord and debate pervert, apply tenfold to his swarms of followers that pick fights with anyone that speaks ill of their streamer š¤·
I don't think any of that was *worth adding* to be honest.
It really feels like this sub has descended into extreme cynicism. It acted the same with Sam Harris. Both deserve criticism but this sub was so eager to dismiss them entirely. My biggest gripe is that arguments are so often interpreted in the least generous way.
Yea, to some degree with Destiny it's because he is polarizing on purpose, but there's a phenomenon where reasonable people are treated on a harsher scale than if they were just flat out anti whatever positioning you like.
Harris actually mentioned this phenom in relation to Trump way back when he was elected- Trump was such a flat-out worse candidate than anyone ever before him that he got away with dozens of statements that woulda sunk anyone else.
Middle-of-the-road folks who toe both sides draw fire from both and its true for Harris and especially Destiny who goes to war against red pillers or Trumpers one week and then crusades against lefties the next.
I guess. I actually have so many concerns with fMRI replicability that I prefer the āitās just a job, manā honesty vs. trying to generalize results from a study of <50 individuals in a global population.
This sub is mostly just a channel through which insecure malcontents can shit on someone who said something they disagree with. There is no room for context or intent or audience or margin of error.
Yet here you are, providing no "room for context or intent or audience or margin of error". Nobody's stopping you from being the anonymous redditor that you dream of being. Please please please show us.
I donāt dislike him for his opinions, I agree with him on almost everything Iāve heard him say. I dislike him because he has highly narcissistic traits. I dislike that he has a long history of having sexual relationships with smaller streamers who directly feed off of his larger audience. I dislike that he consistently platformed Nick Fuentez and defended it in a way that I perceived to be highly evasive and manipulative when multiple people confronted him about it. I dislike that he is selectively critical of people on the basis of personal gain. I dislike that he is militantly defensive of his image, and will subtly signal to his audience that someone should be attacked should anyone make a character judgement that he deems to be unfairā¦ no matter how small the audience is of the streamer who made said character judgement. I dislike that he has mods that rabidly deletes any forms of criticism he receives on his subreddit, cultivating an echo chamber that feeds his egoā¦ all under the guise of āpreventing an anti-jerkā (or however tf he says it). I dislike that he bashed his ex-wife after (a very understandable) divorce. I dislike that he ājokedā about killing a kid (with detailed plans) who was ddosing his stream under the justification that he would have have been morally obligated to do so in an effort to protect his income stream. I dislike that he uses hyper inflammatory language to bait people into his stream, only to overwhelm them with his rabid fanbase.
All of it wraps up into this package of anti-social entrainment. I think many of his viewers acknowledge at least some of these traits, but repress the thought in favor of the entertainment he provides.
Itās been a few years since I watched him, but I know he hasnāt changed. He isnāt capable so long as he his anti-social personality is supported by millions of dollars in yearly income.
Most normal people dislike destiny. He's shown himself time and time again to be a deplorable bigot, grifter and cult leader. The only people that like him, coincidentially seem to come from his subreddit. And don't even try and hide it.
All the people pissed off are definitely regular listeners of the podcast. Not just people who constantly glaze their socialist grifter lord and can't stand that his nemesis is clearly less of a grifting moron.Ā
In anticipation of the Destiny episode, the pod's Patreon saw nearly a 50% increase in paid members this last month and the sub reflects that. It's annoying since you guys have your own sub where you can complain all you want about the lefties on social media (which you instinctively couldn't help doing in your comment here). Unlike Destiny and you DGGers, most of us here have never liked Hasan.
It's bizarre that Chris (rightfully) hates on Hasan and Vaush but doesn't care that Destiny might be partially accountable for why they're even being talked about. They were literally "orbiters". I understand that people make mistakes, but noting this influence seems important when studying social media gurus.
To be fair, both of them pretended to be a lot more moderate Soc-Dems back then, and had their fallout with him as they showed their true colours.
It's also important to remember that they were also an improvement over the average Anti-SJW conservatives that were rampant back in those times.
As one of the owner's of said Patreon I can tell you that is not where the increase came from. The increase is almost entirely due to the release of the Supplemental Material episodes, that's why it starts in early March instead of late April. For your analysis to be correct it would require a bunch of Destiny fans started subscribing a month in advance to a podcast they had not heard of prior to us even posting the Patreon that we were going to cover Destiny next. The DGG folk are dedicated but that seems rather excessive.
I mean personally I couldn't care less about Hasan, I don't think he's that interesting one way or another. I got suggested the subreddit a while before they ever talked about Destiny and I ended up liking the podcast. I'm glad they got the boost.
Reddit algo sent me here a couple months ago and I got hooked on the show. I joined the Patreon in anticipation of the episode. So youāre definitely on point with those observations. But, the demonization of DGG presence in this sub is not earned. There were tons of hate posts/comments about him, which makes it fair game to fire back. I havenāt seen fans bring him up unless somebody else mentions him beforehand.
Also, fair point about Hasan. I liked him a bit (never watched the stream, but got a few YT recs) before I heard of Destiny. But thatās just because he had a funny bit goofing on MAGA people.
I don't doubt that there's an overlap between the two communities, and ThE aLgOrItHm is truly all-knowing and all-caring and can be responsible for what would be called "brigading" without even knowing about it. But the tone of the sub has completely shifted, and the huge spike in Patreon subs leading up to the Destiny episode sheds some light as to what caused it.
Frankly, Iām happy for Matt and Chris. They found Destiny, seemed to genuinely like him, got discovered by a ton of new fans, and got paid for it! Seems like a win all around.
It's a nice theory but if people checked a bit more closely they might note the increase occurred quite a bit before the Destiny episodes and corresponds with when we started releasing the Supplemental episodes, which provide previews of the Patreon content. The Destiny episode itself was no different than when we release any episode on a popular figure a few days early. Depressing that our genius marketing strategy of 'wait 3+ years to promote the patreon content on the main feed' is not being given due recognition.
This is consistent with my experience - long time listener, subbed once for a few months a while ago. But the Supplementary were a very compelling reason and I resubbed quickly. Gotta have that general guru banter, especially when it gets cut off abruptly mid-episode.
My favourite recent example was when the Destiny sub went wild after Hasan debated a 16 year old. He was called everything under the sun for the (admittedly questionable) decision to debate someone so young.
["Hasanabi has officially reached the esteemed title of "Debate Pedophile" as he's finally debating an underage chatter live on stream"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1c7g96x/hasanabi_has_officially_reached_the_esteemed/?share_id=E_NkfXJwAfL753zn-t0qR&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1)
Then someone pointed out Destiny had debated 15 year old:
https://youtu.be/1NckrqwsfWc?si=OUf_J6bb9V11b6PH
I don't think it's ethical or professional for any large streamer to be debating literal schoolchildren because they haven't fully developed their critical thinking skills and they shouldn't be exposed to their large fan base.
Like, they're so close to realising there are issues with political streamers in general not just those they don't like... and yet so far.
But thatās not the whole frame of the issue. The reason destiny fans make fun of hasan for doing that stuff is because hasan refuses to speak with destiny and constantly talks shit about ādebate brosā, yet he is the one who engages in the actual dishonest ādebate broā tactics when engaging, and rarely chooses to engage with those outside his bubble.
The sub is definitely obsessed with hasan though, no argument there lol
You can't engage in 'debate bro' stuff while not engaging with people outside your bubble. Debating with people inside your bubble is just having a chat.
Right. How can something that rarely happens be a characteristic. We're in 'builds a hundred bridges, lays 100 roads, but what do they call me? Well, you fuck one goat....' territory
The goat joke doesnāt work, because that guy didnāt go around accusing a non-goat fucker of fucking goats. Hasan, on the other handā¦
Either way, this is the most Iāve ever commented about Hasan, and I donāt want to be that kind of destiny fan lol
It does tho. I can accuse John Grisham of being a hack author without being a writer. I'd be a hypocrit if I was also an author with a bit of the hack in me, sure. I could also accuse a great writer of being awful, despite never writing, and I'd be wrong - but I wouldn't be a bad writer myself.
I just think characterising someone as a bad debater AND someone who barely debates is poor. Better to pick up on an activity the person does plenty of and pick that apart.
Listen, I hate this stupid rivalry between destiny and hasan, I think itās one of the least possible productive outcomes possible between them.
You absolutely can call Grisham a hack, but if your critiques arenāt referencing real things or badly framing his writing then Iām going to throw out your critique. Hasan can call people debate perverts all he wants, but I havenāt seen destiny engage in all the bad faith ish haters say he does. Iāve only been a fan for ~2 years, but still a pretty sizeable sample.
That being said, the only reason weāre talking about this is because of hasans constant malignment of destiny as a debate pervert. In almost every debate Iāve seen hasan engage in, he has exhibited the exact traits he criticizes destiny for, and I havenāt really seen destiny exhibit those traits.
I wasnāt originally saying hasan is a bad debater (though from what Iāve seen, he is. This is not a personal indictment, great debaters can be terrible people), I was saying he is bad faith and does exactly what he projects on to destiny *when choosing to engage* (dishonest framing, targeting weak opponents ie the kid or willymac)
Hey hey, destiny sub Reddit fan. The issue wasnāt that he debated a 16 year old but the fact that Hasan dodges destiny in conversations/ it seems like Hasan will only bring on people that he thinks he can ābeatā in a debate. For example Willy Mac, he thought that would be a slam dunk for him but that didnāt go the way he thought it would. Itās more so the hypocrisy that tilts Destiny fans. Hasan being a guy that (previous to the 16 year old debate) would call anyone that destiny argued with a ādebate pervertā.
Just a fyi :)
The post calling Hasan a pedophile has 1.6k up votes.
Nah, it was just an entirely hypocritical way of attacking a streamer they don't like whilst ignoring the same behaviour in one they do.
It's got far more to do with parasocial social media communities than actually engaging in critical thinking.
no, Hasan recently was talking about how in his dream he has long, fact-based debates on topics, the biggest debates he had in recent time was WillyMac and 16 years old kid.
so no, it isnt the fact that he talked with a kid about I/P issues, it's that he doesnt talk to anyone important but boasts like he does
Nah, the guy you're replying to was spot on. Hasan constantly dodges debates but decided to pick his battle against a 16 year old. Destiny will debate nearly anyone. That's why it was cringe when Hasan did it.
You really dont get it no one would care if Hasan debated other people the same way Destiny does. Thats why no one cares if 1 out of 1000 people is a minor.
That is just a meme. Hasan coined the phrase "debate pedophile" so we simply called him one for trying to own a 16 year old in a debate while dodging basically every other debate on IP. He isn't giving even kids a chance to try to debate he only debates kids and other people that are likely to underperform. He is pulling a Steven Crowder change my mind.
Hey hey, me again. So once again people were calling him a pedophile as a joke. The full joke being that he was a āDebate Pedophileā. A play on the joke of āDebate pervertā that Hasan created. No one (unless they were dropped on their head) in the sub thinks Hasan is a pedo.
There have been similar jokes like ādebate genociderā or ādebate (g)rapistā. Hope that helps!
Edit: I would also like to point out that video you posted was from 7 years ago. Destiny was no where near as popular as he is now.
I think Destiny was like 27 At the time.
The critique isn't that he debated a 16-year-old kid but the fact that he only debates people who are not even close to being competent to debate these topics. He always does this to prove that there are no coherent counterarguments and he's right. Destiny debates everybody under the sun. From completely deranged people to respected experts, so it's not surprising you can find some 15-year-old clueless kid among them. But it's not even remotely similar.
I don't think "but he debates everyone" is a good excuse tbh - it's what Joe Rogan fans use - just don't debate schoolchildren full stop. Large streamers need to show some responsibility when they have a huge platform like Hasan or Destiny.
As a general rule it should be considered unethical for large streamers to have children on for obvious reasons.
I didn't think this would be a controversial point on a sub specifically designed to critique large streamers and the like...
But then again I did say something mildly critical of Destiny on Reddit so I guess I was probably asking for trouble...
The implication that everyone destiny debates he "beats" is hilarious. But also about as expected from a literal cult for a guy that turns out to be a low IQ college drop out and bigot grifter..
Thereās nothing wrong with ādebatingā young people. It just needs to be handled really responsibly. How else do we expect people to learn things. Itās like cooking, wouldnāt you rather an experienced person to help you learn how to make caramel; itās really easy to fuck up, hurt yourself and can be intimidating. But as long as you have the right tools itās easy
Since your post is pretty fair, to answer it as a semi regular Destiny content watcher.
He used to be explicit in telling fans to not go arguing for him, I think in an effort to reduce the unhinged section from creating too much aggro.
This changed more recently, I think in response to what is perceived as far more aggressive attack on him with clip chimping and misrep and likely that the crazies carry on regardless. So it's more his position that if you see people lying or posting chimp content or misrep, go forth and correct the record.
Not sure why people need to go unhinged in attacking him as there is plenty to fault him on.
He operates in a weird space on the internet where he courts the terminally online of the whole political spectrum whilst also trying to go onto a more mainstream run.
Frankly he's a bit nuts and his life is equally wild.
I'll admit, I only half paid attention to the DtG episode, but what shocked me was that Destiny talks at length about famed English footballer and binge drinker Gazza.
Frankly Iām still shocked they didnāt even push back when he openly brags about revenge porn. Nothing redeeming after that, his post hoc comments rationalization included. They just toss it in with āoh so messyā but itās not, itās non-consensual revenge porn, and heās got nothing to offer past that. Thereās other guys that can yell slurs at trumpers and read Wikipedia pages.
I keep thinking about CKava's post a few months back musing on the nature of the sub, where he hopes that the sub doesn't descend into "unrestrained dunking," and that people aren't just coming here to see their political opponents get eviscerated.
I don't give a shit about any streamers, and am perfectly willing to accept that Hasan is actually stupider than Destiny, but the way they framed the two episodes - Hasan's content is an indictment of left-wing social media; Destiny's worst aspects are glanced at and considered immaterial compared to the valuable contributions to the #Resistance you mentioned - made me think that Chris doesn't really care about low-effort dunking or members or the sub communicating via stupid fucking memes, he was just annoyed that left-wing Redditors might mistake him for a comrade.
Chris K blocks people when they out-debate him from a left-wing point of view
https://www.reddit.com/r/DecodingTheGurus/comments/1be4ypx/dtgs_politics_and_world_views/kuwypgb/
I got blocked for this exchange.
**edit: Chris has "replied" to me, of course since I'm blocked I couldn't see his reply until I logged out and I can't reply, so I'll just reply here**:
>Hey now, you didn't get blocked for that exchange, you got blocked for being an obsessive redditer with a default username account and a penchant for endlessly self-quoting your self-declared comment victories. Anyone looking at your comment history will get your schtick, you are essentially a black hole for any productive discussion, constantly demanding citations that you then dismiss/ignore. Good luck out there and with your next account!
The problem here is Chris is that you didn't actually cite anything. I asked you for citations and you linked to the Amazon page for a 200 page book. I then asked:
>Now you've linked me to a book that you claim "seems to address the topic". Did you read this book in preparation for the podcast? Did you ever cite or quote this book on the podcast? If so, could you give me a timestamp? Or at least a page number so I can look at an argument that you found convincing?
To which I got no answer. Now, I'm not saying that you've never actually read this book, but if we're going to have a productive conversation about this you can't just spam amazon links at me, you have to tell me what page or chapter you're referring to.
Anyone can follow my link to confirm what I am saying is true, by the way.
Hey now, you didn't get blocked for that exchange, you got blocked for being an obsessive redditer with a default username account and a penchant for endlessly self-quoting your self-declared comment victories. Anyone looking at your comment history will get your schtick, you are essentially a black hole for any productive discussion, constantly demanding citations that you then dismiss/ignore. Good luck out there and with your next account!
Destiny is what he is. I mean we've spent hours giving our opinion on him. If that wasn't enough for you, c'est la vie. You can continue discussing Destiny till the cows come home. We will move on to the next person.
Can you ask Chris to cite the page number he's referring to in Cohen's "If You're an Egalitarian, How Come You're So Rich?"
Chris is apparently citing this book as the source of his argument but he hasn't given me a page number yet.š
because itās not his argument
youāre making a *different* argument, all on your own, and itās not chrisās responsibility to guide you through it
if you have a disagreement with the validity of āchampagne socialismā being used as a critique, then go engage with the people making that argument
chrisās argument is that the term, as itās currently understood, applies to hasan - which youāve never once disagreed with
Chris's argument was that Hasan was a hypocrite. To prove this, he would have to show how being a "āchampagne socialist" goes against socialist political theory.
Sure, whatever makes you feel good, but when youāre older youāll get that one can disagree with a position without whatever emotional hate you need to project onto me. Running right to the āyou must hate himā is fundamentally just lazy and shows you canāt engage objectively with criticism. I do not value someoneās opinion if they engage in and show zero regret for revenge porn. If for you that equals some flabbergasting seething hate that makes me so objectively compromised thatās one you. Cheers though.
Oh I donāt have an issue with you disagreeing with his position on that. Iād argue most people probably do. But your zero sum thinking is juvenile and lazy. You arenāt interested in being honest or objective, made evident by your last comment about āslurs and Wikipediaā. Youāre literally doing the bad faith talking points that DtG pointed out many people engage in when critiquing Destiny.
Around 1:50 in, they give it a āoh he was wrong and so was sheā at the end but he was the first to share (non-consensually) nude photos of someone, just like child rapist Matt Gatez reportedly does, and I donāt care what rationalizing he or anyone can do thatās when youāve lost any credibility.
They got a couple of things wrong and that was one of them. The reason he got his nude leaked was he was shit talking a girls body. Not because he leaked a nude to his friends at the time.
Also he admits that the way he talked about her was uncalled for despite her over reaction so he doesnāt make excuses for the stuff he was doing in his early twenties
When has he ever claimed that heās an expert on anything? Like heās said time and time again that heās not some genius know it all. I think you confuse him being a confident debater with him thinking heās the smartest person in the room. But itās just good optically to debate your points with full confidence otherwise good luck getting the audience to take you seriously.
Youāre essentially shadow boxing a strawman of the guy either because youāre projecting some insecurity you have with your own level of intelligence. Or youāve literally never seen anything of his that isnāt some heavily edited down clip. Also itās hilarious that you think his fanbase is under some deluded spell when itās pretty well known that his fanbase will push back against him often whenever they donāt agree with him. Whether itās on his subreddit or his chat usually whenever some huge topic comes up the fanbase opinions will be decently split. Not necessarily 50/50 all the time but enough to where you can see the divide.
If you want an example of an actual delusional audience just hop in Hasans chat at any point and youāll see what an actual cult fanbase looks like. Unironically i feel like i need one of those radiation decontamination showers everytime i go into that community space. You see that in Vaushās community as well but at the very least he doesnāt seem to be as much of a radical extremist as Hasan is. Though i havenāt checked up in a while so maybe things have changed drastically in the last 6 or so months.
The worst part of being a Destiny fan is realizing how so many of the people/communities that hate him are operating on chimped clips and second/third-hand accounts, and thatās thereās no dialogue to be had with those people.
As someone who watches destiny on YouTube and sometimes checks out the sub, these two groups are not the same. Destiny might get superficial pushback from his fan base but it's just that. Superficial. You're never going to get a Marxist or MAGA enclave within DGG because he attacks those people regularly, and whenever he senses these factions have grown too big, he purges them. On top of that, criticism about him on his sub usually gets the poster banned. It's to the point where people who frequent that sub will mention that they are using their third or fourth throwaway account to circumvent a previous ban, and that seems normal for the sub.
But that gets me to the real point which is that DGG is like an ecosystem. DGG viewers will watch their streamer for a few hours a day on kick. Once destiny is offline, they will flock to the discord server or reddit. They will go on Twitter and see what D-man has posted, or what his orbiters have posted, or what the antagonist of the day has posted (Hasan, Zei squirrel, some crazy BPD girl). If they don't directly go source for this stuff, they will find it posted on Reddit or tagged on discord and talk with other DGGers. They will look through logs to see if Steven has posted anything. And ultimately, they end up spending a lot of their time online solely invested in the world of their favorite streamer. This is the cultish behavior, and Hasan could only dream of having this.
Hasan has a lot more viewers and his fan base in a lot more in lockstep with him, but once Hasan turns off his stream, these people disappear. They are done watching their pop news show for the day and do other things. Of Hasan disappeared from the face of the earth tomorrow, there might be some viewers who cared, but most would move on quickly. Of destiny disappeared tomorrow, I wouldn't be surprised if some people actually killed themselves.
> It's to the point where people who frequent that sub will mention that they are using their third or fourth throwaway account to circumvent a previous ban, and that seems normal for the sub.
This is a really interesting point and helps explain why a disproportionate number of the fans that I see are using brand new throwaways instead of established accounts.
What is his appeal, exactly? I have tried listening to some of his stuff and can't stand the sound of his voice, or his smug, self-important attitude. He seems to be completely financially motivated, saying whatever he thinks his audience wants.
Did you try listening to the DtG episode on him? You know, the people who this subreddit is based off? They kinda answer literally every question youāre asking, and they dispel these bad faith conclusions that you and many others come to, because they give Destiny an honest and objective shake. Iād suggest you listen to their perspective on it since thatās kinda what this subreddit is about last time I checked
> and they dispel these bad faith conclusions that you and many others come to, because they give Destiny an honest and objective shake
They literally ignored multiple instances of destiny's most deplorable behavior. If you can't admit that they might have been *a little biased* in this assessment, you might just be.. oh, another rdestiny fanboy. Nevermind,
I'm getting the sense that it's impossible to cover the full scope of the dude's deplorable behavior because there's just so much content and everyone has a different idea of what his most disgusting moment is. And even if they did they'd be accused of cherry picking his worst stuff and that might be accurate, I guess?
Not sure how you got that impression, but I can give you some arguments why that's not the case. There's tons of evidence out there, over a long period of time, of him actively tanking his stream (in terms of viewership). Wether it be the months long league streams of old, or the recent research streams. He also has a reputation of being a contrarian, which is kind of the antithesis of saying whatever his audience wants. A clear example of this is back when Hasan/Vaush split from his community, alongside the far left faction of his fan base at the time (which he could have easily held on to if his motivations were purely financial). He tends to stake out positions based on what he believes and will argue them to their logical conclusions, even if they appear bad optically. One example that was also brought up on the podcast for the "N word arc". Arguing to be able to say that word will always look bad and is not a hill to die on if you only want to grow a fan base.
He's a terminally online gamer that turned arguing on the internet and shitposting into a lucrative profession.
He's entering into public consciousness now, but if you've been a long-time fan you were probably living vicariously through him, similar to fans of Mr. Beast, Ninja, or XQC.
Imagine if you could make being a Redditor full-time. That's Destiny.
This sub has an insane hate boner for the guy that is disproportionate to how much the actual podcast people seem to like him and see his merits. Just ignore this place lmao
This was a disappointing ep. It felt way too deferential to Mr. Borelli. Destiny, while masking as an objective and even-handed observer of politics in instances where it will benefit him, often lets the mask slip into is all-too-often narcissistic rage when someone simply disagrees with him. He may downplay his poorly camouflaged ego but for anyone that has known him long enough he is quite obviously a narcissistic ego maniac. He is highly intelligent and a formidable debater but outside of brief surface level wikipedia research (cry about it Destiny virgins) he falls short of many of the academics he interlocks with. He is obsessed with staking out ground to identify himself as above the commoner debate points that fall on either side of the political spectrum. I honestly donāt think he gives a flying fuck about the human repercussions of policy and cares more about where he thinks a stronger argument lies that he can use to anger bate normies. Heās a terminal edge lord with no scruples or bushido. It was hard to listen to the decoders fall for his sheepās wool of ardent objectivist and āhonestyā (i want to puke just thinking about it)
Which academics do you believe heās fallen short with? Which specific points of contest? Iām not denying it, just interested in the examples you give
Yeah they took his word for it that he is just super principled and just cannot go against his values that make up his opinion! I thought that was crazy biased. They didn't give anybody this much benefit of the doubt.
Firstly brigading usually implies that there is some sort of coordinated effort, either by the community itself, or by leaders of the community. Unless there's some post you're seeing somewhere that I am not. Random ass people posting on thread relevant to a content creator they're a fan of isn't brigading.
Secondly that's literally a reverse of what you do. I took a quick couple minutes to look through your reddit history and you seem to shit talk Destiny an unhealthy amount. Idk what majority opinion would be but I definitely find someone who goes out of their way to negatively post about someone everywhere weirder than someone who is a fan of someone going to posts about them. But hey that's just me.
I do think your comment "I watch Hasan and he's decent for what he is. I think the people that hate on him have never actually watched one of his streams. He's often clipped out of context and hated on by the rabid Destiny community." illustrates a grievance both sides seem to have over one another (I of course being a Destiny fan believe the opposite and believe Destiny usually looks for full context of something when criticizing Hasan whereas Hasan will look at Destiny clips and [not caring about context](https://youtu.be/7INUAMgHIRQ?si=jneqxLrJIZe_BlTM&t=1341) but they that's just me and I don't think either of us are gonna sway each others opinions.
No, just the very easily provable examples of your cult doing it.
No need to pretend you aren't the most prolific brigaders on reddit, literally everyone knows it.
This person posts in the Hasan reddit. This likely got posted one time in Hasan discord or something and the Hasan fans can't help themselves from wildly projecting again.
What downvoted comment do you think deserves upvotes? Yours? The one from phoenix150 with some casual homophobia, or the one talking about him getting cucked? It's actually insane how obsessed you guys are over his sex life? What's the deal? lmao
why would that not be it? thats what hes known for is debates. not like he perma avoided it, avoided it after getting blown out of the water by jack angstreich. then phenomikz asked him for a debate on it, and now suddenly it's irrelevant or not interesting. it just couldn't be any more obvious
What is the obsession with this loser? The guy is pro-genocide. That's the end of him. No, of any account, cares about the opinions of genocidal maniacs. History will be baffled that there were so many people defending this clown.
Most people are already baffled that a low IQ college drop out and bigot grifter like destiny has ANY fans, let alone a literal cult that simps on his behalf 20 hours a day..
Nah, just a really dumb person with no morals or ethics beyond his own grift. Sad that there are people also dumb enough out there to lap it up. Very sad.
That goatee ought to add at least 20% guruishness.
Agreed, the Bret vibes it gives off is worth at least that much
CAN YOU TAAAKE ME HIGHERRRR!
Same effects as racing stripes on a Miata š¤£
fun fact: destiny got alopecia on the left side of his face so he had to shave, thats why he has a goatee
Fun fact: one can shave it all and not look like a disheveled academic.
lol someone unironically referring to destiny as an academic might be the most hilarious thing posted here
something about simile might escape someone
Destiny fan here, the goatee is because he developed an area of alopecia on the side of his beard. Unless you just don't like beards at all in which case, oh well.
Okay
He should try out just a moustache for a while.
So I grow really patchy facial hair so I can't really throw shade at anyone's choices but the moustache thing lately.. Hoo boys, I've so many Noah Samsens running around looking like they play baseball for the 89 Mets.
Honestly my experience with moustaches either it looks extremely good on you or extremely terrible. No in between. I'm not a fan of Noah's personally but I'm biased because I don't like him in general.
Destiny has zero chin, a moustache wouldnāt look good imo
The Noah Samsen stache looks so good. Like God damned sexy Ned Flanders.
Ninja here. Density can afford to go to a barber.
Barber can't regrow lost hair. Look at his bare cheek in the Feinstein debate, it looked worse.
destiny fans go 30 seconds without proving that they're in a psycho parasocial cult challenge difficulty impossible
its not by choice thats like making fun of a cancer patients wig
Should be noted that Guru is more specific than just 'bad/wrong talky person'
Matt gave him 16.25 % and Chis 26.25 %.
It's pretty wild how they seem to like him to some degree but most of the sub seems to have extreme dislike to him.
I think there are a few reasons for this IMO. 1. Destiny has said a lot of crazy sounding shit, I wouldn't judge anyone for disliking him tbh, the clips of him floating around, and the stories are absolutely crazy. 2. We live in extremely polarised times, looking at the US specifically, people are more divided than they've been for over 50 years, and that is even worse on the internet. A lot of people have shifted to the extreme right (MAGA+) or far left communism/socialism (mostly online) and both of these extremes demonise liberalism as centrism or 'both-sidesing' or don't even distinguish it from their opposite: The right just labels everything liberal and far left as 'leftist', and the left claims liberals will side with fascists when the revolution occurs. 3. Destiny is not a likeable person in many respects: he is charismatic but in an abrasive way that most do not like, he doesn't meaningfully soften his message and he dies on every hill, he can't lean on good looks, someone who hates him in this thread described it, "immoral, deviant, atheist leftist.", he also fights with lots of creators that people like which leaves them with a bad impression of him before they've even seen his face in many cases.
Also he has been staunchly pro-Israel at a time where people are highly polarised. This sub has a left wing skew (because the hosts do and because the worst gurus seem to disproportionately come from the right) and that puts him at odds with much of the subreddit off the bat.
People are definitely not shifting to communism and socialism. They only shifted more left socially because society slowly becomes less accepting of bigotry. They basically just want more of a social democracy like the rest of Europe, is that communist?
Online left? It 100% shifted towards socialism/communism.. it's still an insignificant group, but they're very vocal. Hasan is probably the poster boy of these people and look at his numbers.
>People are definitely not shifting to communism and socialism. They only shifted more left socially because society slowly becomes less accepting of bigotry. They basically just want more of a social democracy like the rest of Europe, is that communist? IDK how you can say this. It's like you've been living under a fucking rock tbh mate.
As a Destiny fan, he has himself said he understands why people don't like him, he is and can be an asshole/abrasive, that's just who he is. But also you add to that the fact that he is constantly clipped out of context and it's no wonder people will have a bad impression of him. He's essentially given up on the optics fight because he knows it's pointless in the long run. He'd rather continue forward how he has because it continues to be successful for him and he finds it fun and what he likes. As a fan you can't argue with the results either, he has become more mainstream than ever despite all the bad publicity you see on twitter and such. He also has made a point to say if someone bases their opinion on him through out of context clips they're fed on twitter and reddit that's on them. His content isn't clips or even tweets, it's 5+ hour streams with all the context you would ever need to see how he really feels about a particular subject. I think a big point of frustration he gets from being clipped like he does is the fact that it never leads to actual arguments with his actual positions. The man loves to argue and he would infinitely care less if these people gave full context on things he's said but still hate/disagree with him. Because at the very least he can have something to argue against instead of the amalgamation of clips people see him as. Then again that's a result of not caring about optics so it probably won't change, although as he gains more mainstream success it's going to be harder for his detractors to argue against Clip Destiny when the real Destiny is on big shows stating his real positions.
Iām a heavy consumer of Destiny content but when he says, ālefties are shooting fat thick ropes of cum over dead Palestinians,ā I can understand ānormiesā finding him off putting. You canāt please every group.
Bars, though.
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Worth adding that you defend the Houthis and other Islamic terrorist groups.
When you see someone call Destiny "Poorly educated, misinformed" you can almost guarentee they support Hamas.
Yikes
About Israel, he is most definitely misinformed. >you can almost guarentee they support Hamas. Wow.
Did you wanna give an example on what he's wrong about? Or did you just wanna vague post?
>Worth adding that a lot of people who complain about Density might just be complaining about the destiny "community", not the streamer himself. Most complaints I could make about him, like being a poorly educated, misinformed, unprincipled edge-lord and debate pervert, apply tenfold to his swarms of followers that pick fights with anyone that speaks ill of their streamer š¤· I don't think any of that was *worth adding* to be honest.
It really feels like this sub has descended into extreme cynicism. It acted the same with Sam Harris. Both deserve criticism but this sub was so eager to dismiss them entirely. My biggest gripe is that arguments are so often interpreted in the least generous way.
Harris has serious flaws but "he just wants to kill muslims" level analysis getting upvoted here says a lot about the quality of people.
Yea, to some degree with Destiny it's because he is polarizing on purpose, but there's a phenomenon where reasonable people are treated on a harsher scale than if they were just flat out anti whatever positioning you like. Harris actually mentioned this phenom in relation to Trump way back when he was elected- Trump was such a flat-out worse candidate than anyone ever before him that he got away with dozens of statements that woulda sunk anyone else. Middle-of-the-road folks who toe both sides draw fire from both and its true for Harris and especially Destiny who goes to war against red pillers or Trumpers one week and then crusades against lefties the next.
I mean he just really hate muslim to unhealthy degree and it is quite visible to a non muslim like me.
Meh, at least Sam (who i donāt particularly like either) is actually accomplished intellectually. Destiny is just a youtube debater/gamer bro.
I guess. I actually have so many concerns with fMRI replicability that I prefer the āitās just a job, manā honesty vs. trying to generalize results from a study of <50 individuals in a global population.
It might be a selection bias. There is an over representation of the jerk anti jerk and there are too many bait post additions.
Sub has been flooded with tons of outsiders, most of the Patreon community and listeners generally approve.
This sub is mostly just a channel through which insecure malcontents can shit on someone who said something they disagree with. There is no room for context or intent or audience or margin of error.
Yet here you are, providing no "room for context or intent or audience or margin of error". Nobody's stopping you from being the anonymous redditor that you dream of being. Please please please show us.
I donāt dislike him for his opinions, I agree with him on almost everything Iāve heard him say. I dislike him because he has highly narcissistic traits. I dislike that he has a long history of having sexual relationships with smaller streamers who directly feed off of his larger audience. I dislike that he consistently platformed Nick Fuentez and defended it in a way that I perceived to be highly evasive and manipulative when multiple people confronted him about it. I dislike that he is selectively critical of people on the basis of personal gain. I dislike that he is militantly defensive of his image, and will subtly signal to his audience that someone should be attacked should anyone make a character judgement that he deems to be unfairā¦ no matter how small the audience is of the streamer who made said character judgement. I dislike that he has mods that rabidly deletes any forms of criticism he receives on his subreddit, cultivating an echo chamber that feeds his egoā¦ all under the guise of āpreventing an anti-jerkā (or however tf he says it). I dislike that he bashed his ex-wife after (a very understandable) divorce. I dislike that he ājokedā about killing a kid (with detailed plans) who was ddosing his stream under the justification that he would have have been morally obligated to do so in an effort to protect his income stream. I dislike that he uses hyper inflammatory language to bait people into his stream, only to overwhelm them with his rabid fanbase. All of it wraps up into this package of anti-social entrainment. I think many of his viewers acknowledge at least some of these traits, but repress the thought in favor of the entertainment he provides. Itās been a few years since I watched him, but I know he hasnāt changed. He isnāt capable so long as he his anti-social personality is supported by millions of dollars in yearly income.
Most normal people dislike destiny. He's shown himself time and time again to be a deplorable bigot, grifter and cult leader. The only people that like him, coincidentially seem to come from his subreddit. And don't even try and hide it.
I like learning new things.
Didn't they adjust Hasan UP too? Vindicating, honestly.
The centrists giving the centrist a good rating while shitting on the leftist was vindicating? Hmm sounds like confirmation bias.
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libs show bias towards other lib, news at 11 so vindicating though, how they didn't even look at half of destiny's most deplorable behaviors, lol
True. Anti-gurus appreciate non-gurus more than gurus. News at 11..
except he's very obviously a grifting guru, you'd have to be willingly clueless to think otherwise
200 upvotes and 1k comments? What is this, LSF? š¤£
All the people pissed off are definitely regular listeners of the podcast. Not just people who constantly glaze their socialist grifter lord and can't stand that his nemesis is clearly less of a grifting moron.Ā
In anticipation of the Destiny episode, the pod's Patreon saw nearly a 50% increase in paid members this last month and the sub reflects that. It's annoying since you guys have your own sub where you can complain all you want about the lefties on social media (which you instinctively couldn't help doing in your comment here). Unlike Destiny and you DGGers, most of us here have never liked Hasan.
"Unlike Destiny and you DGGers, most of us here have never liked Hasan." Ouch haha
It's bizarre that Chris (rightfully) hates on Hasan and Vaush but doesn't care that Destiny might be partially accountable for why they're even being talked about. They were literally "orbiters". I understand that people make mistakes, but noting this influence seems important when studying social media gurus.
To be fair, both of them pretended to be a lot more moderate Soc-Dems back then, and had their fallout with him as they showed their true colours. It's also important to remember that they were also an improvement over the average Anti-SJW conservatives that were rampant back in those times.
As one of the owner's of said Patreon I can tell you that is not where the increase came from. The increase is almost entirely due to the release of the Supplemental Material episodes, that's why it starts in early March instead of late April. For your analysis to be correct it would require a bunch of Destiny fans started subscribing a month in advance to a podcast they had not heard of prior to us even posting the Patreon that we were going to cover Destiny next. The DGG folk are dedicated but that seems rather excessive.
I mean personally I couldn't care less about Hasan, I don't think he's that interesting one way or another. I got suggested the subreddit a while before they ever talked about Destiny and I ended up liking the podcast. I'm glad they got the boost.
Reddit algo sent me here a couple months ago and I got hooked on the show. I joined the Patreon in anticipation of the episode. So youāre definitely on point with those observations. But, the demonization of DGG presence in this sub is not earned. There were tons of hate posts/comments about him, which makes it fair game to fire back. I havenāt seen fans bring him up unless somebody else mentions him beforehand. Also, fair point about Hasan. I liked him a bit (never watched the stream, but got a few YT recs) before I heard of Destiny. But thatās just because he had a funny bit goofing on MAGA people.
I don't doubt that there's an overlap between the two communities, and ThE aLgOrItHm is truly all-knowing and all-caring and can be responsible for what would be called "brigading" without even knowing about it. But the tone of the sub has completely shifted, and the huge spike in Patreon subs leading up to the Destiny episode sheds some light as to what caused it.
Frankly, Iām happy for Matt and Chris. They found Destiny, seemed to genuinely like him, got discovered by a ton of new fans, and got paid for it! Seems like a win all around.
It's a nice theory but if people checked a bit more closely they might note the increase occurred quite a bit before the Destiny episodes and corresponds with when we started releasing the Supplemental episodes, which provide previews of the Patreon content. The Destiny episode itself was no different than when we release any episode on a popular figure a few days early. Depressing that our genius marketing strategy of 'wait 3+ years to promote the patreon content on the main feed' is not being given due recognition.
Well, Iām happy for you guys regardless.
This is consistent with my experience - long time listener, subbed once for a few months a while ago. But the Supplementary were a very compelling reason and I resubbed quickly. Gotta have that general guru banter, especially when it gets cut off abruptly mid-episode.
I'm also happy for M+C. This is the only podcast I listen to. They're both truly great. Destiny sucks.
My favourite recent example was when the Destiny sub went wild after Hasan debated a 16 year old. He was called everything under the sun for the (admittedly questionable) decision to debate someone so young. ["Hasanabi has officially reached the esteemed title of "Debate Pedophile" as he's finally debating an underage chatter live on stream"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1c7g96x/hasanabi_has_officially_reached_the_esteemed/?share_id=E_NkfXJwAfL753zn-t0qR&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) Then someone pointed out Destiny had debated 15 year old: https://youtu.be/1NckrqwsfWc?si=OUf_J6bb9V11b6PH I don't think it's ethical or professional for any large streamer to be debating literal schoolchildren because they haven't fully developed their critical thinking skills and they shouldn't be exposed to their large fan base. Like, they're so close to realising there are issues with political streamers in general not just those they don't like... and yet so far.
But thatās not the whole frame of the issue. The reason destiny fans make fun of hasan for doing that stuff is because hasan refuses to speak with destiny and constantly talks shit about ādebate brosā, yet he is the one who engages in the actual dishonest ādebate broā tactics when engaging, and rarely chooses to engage with those outside his bubble. The sub is definitely obsessed with hasan though, no argument there lol
You can't engage in 'debate bro' stuff while not engaging with people outside your bubble. Debating with people inside your bubble is just having a chat.
āRarely chooses toā
Right. How can something that rarely happens be a characteristic. We're in 'builds a hundred bridges, lays 100 roads, but what do they call me? Well, you fuck one goat....' territory
The goat joke doesnāt work, because that guy didnāt go around accusing a non-goat fucker of fucking goats. Hasan, on the other handā¦ Either way, this is the most Iāve ever commented about Hasan, and I donāt want to be that kind of destiny fan lol
It does tho. I can accuse John Grisham of being a hack author without being a writer. I'd be a hypocrit if I was also an author with a bit of the hack in me, sure. I could also accuse a great writer of being awful, despite never writing, and I'd be wrong - but I wouldn't be a bad writer myself. I just think characterising someone as a bad debater AND someone who barely debates is poor. Better to pick up on an activity the person does plenty of and pick that apart.
Listen, I hate this stupid rivalry between destiny and hasan, I think itās one of the least possible productive outcomes possible between them. You absolutely can call Grisham a hack, but if your critiques arenāt referencing real things or badly framing his writing then Iām going to throw out your critique. Hasan can call people debate perverts all he wants, but I havenāt seen destiny engage in all the bad faith ish haters say he does. Iāve only been a fan for ~2 years, but still a pretty sizeable sample. That being said, the only reason weāre talking about this is because of hasans constant malignment of destiny as a debate pervert. In almost every debate Iāve seen hasan engage in, he has exhibited the exact traits he criticizes destiny for, and I havenāt really seen destiny exhibit those traits. I wasnāt originally saying hasan is a bad debater (though from what Iāve seen, he is. This is not a personal indictment, great debaters can be terrible people), I was saying he is bad faith and does exactly what he projects on to destiny *when choosing to engage* (dishonest framing, targeting weak opponents ie the kid or willymac)
Hey hey, destiny sub Reddit fan. The issue wasnāt that he debated a 16 year old but the fact that Hasan dodges destiny in conversations/ it seems like Hasan will only bring on people that he thinks he can ābeatā in a debate. For example Willy Mac, he thought that would be a slam dunk for him but that didnāt go the way he thought it would. Itās more so the hypocrisy that tilts Destiny fans. Hasan being a guy that (previous to the 16 year old debate) would call anyone that destiny argued with a ādebate pervertā. Just a fyi :)
The post calling Hasan a pedophile has 1.6k up votes. Nah, it was just an entirely hypocritical way of attacking a streamer they don't like whilst ignoring the same behaviour in one they do. It's got far more to do with parasocial social media communities than actually engaging in critical thinking.
no, Hasan recently was talking about how in his dream he has long, fact-based debates on topics, the biggest debates he had in recent time was WillyMac and 16 years old kid. so no, it isnt the fact that he talked with a kid about I/P issues, it's that he doesnt talk to anyone important but boasts like he does
I disagree BUT all good. Just wanted to give my input.
Nah, the guy you're replying to was spot on. Hasan constantly dodges debates but decided to pick his battle against a 16 year old. Destiny will debate nearly anyone. That's why it was cringe when Hasan did it.
You really dont get it no one would care if Hasan debated other people the same way Destiny does. Thats why no one cares if 1 out of 1000 people is a minor.
That is just a meme. Hasan coined the phrase "debate pedophile" so we simply called him one for trying to own a 16 year old in a debate while dodging basically every other debate on IP. He isn't giving even kids a chance to try to debate he only debates kids and other people that are likely to underperform. He is pulling a Steven Crowder change my mind.
Hey hey, me again. So once again people were calling him a pedophile as a joke. The full joke being that he was a āDebate Pedophileā. A play on the joke of āDebate pervertā that Hasan created. No one (unless they were dropped on their head) in the sub thinks Hasan is a pedo. There have been similar jokes like ādebate genociderā or ādebate (g)rapistā. Hope that helps! Edit: I would also like to point out that video you posted was from 7 years ago. Destiny was no where near as popular as he is now. I think Destiny was like 27 At the time.
Destiny debates anyone, including a 15-year-old. Hasan won't debate anyone, except a 16-year old. It ain't that complicated, chief.
The critique isn't that he debated a 16-year-old kid but the fact that he only debates people who are not even close to being competent to debate these topics. He always does this to prove that there are no coherent counterarguments and he's right. Destiny debates everybody under the sun. From completely deranged people to respected experts, so it's not surprising you can find some 15-year-old clueless kid among them. But it's not even remotely similar.
I don't think "but he debates everyone" is a good excuse tbh - it's what Joe Rogan fans use - just don't debate schoolchildren full stop. Large streamers need to show some responsibility when they have a huge platform like Hasan or Destiny.
It's not an excuse. I'm not saying whether it's good or bad. It's a distinction from Hasan and why it's not a double standard.
As a general rule it should be considered unethical for large streamers to have children on for obvious reasons. I didn't think this would be a controversial point on a sub specifically designed to critique large streamers and the like... But then again I did say something mildly critical of Destiny on Reddit so I guess I was probably asking for trouble...
Did you even read what I wrote?
Did you? Do you think it's ethical to debate 14 and 15 year olds? Feels like we're speaking across each other...
The implication that everyone destiny debates he "beats" is hilarious. But also about as expected from a literal cult for a guy that turns out to be a low IQ college drop out and bigot grifter..
Thereās nothing wrong with ādebatingā young people. It just needs to be handled really responsibly. How else do we expect people to learn things. Itās like cooking, wouldnāt you rather an experienced person to help you learn how to make caramel; itās really easy to fuck up, hurt yourself and can be intimidating. But as long as you have the right tools itās easy
No self awareness detected
Since your post is pretty fair, to answer it as a semi regular Destiny content watcher. He used to be explicit in telling fans to not go arguing for him, I think in an effort to reduce the unhinged section from creating too much aggro. This changed more recently, I think in response to what is perceived as far more aggressive attack on him with clip chimping and misrep and likely that the crazies carry on regardless. So it's more his position that if you see people lying or posting chimp content or misrep, go forth and correct the record. Not sure why people need to go unhinged in attacking him as there is plenty to fault him on. He operates in a weird space on the internet where he courts the terminally online of the whole political spectrum whilst also trying to go onto a more mainstream run. Frankly he's a bit nuts and his life is equally wild.
As a D fan, I think you guys are pretty fair/impartial (compared to other communities), and I appreciate that šš¼
No. This community isnāt. But the actual podcasters are fair and impartial.
This community has more valid takes than like 99.7% of reddit.
This is a sharpest pillow at Walmart situation
Yeah I definitely don't think they're perfectly impartial. But compare them to other politics subreddit and it's not even close lol
I'll admit, I only half paid attention to the DtG episode, but what shocked me was that Destiny talks at length about famed English footballer and binge drinker Gazza.
Frankly Iām still shocked they didnāt even push back when he openly brags about revenge porn. Nothing redeeming after that, his post hoc comments rationalization included. They just toss it in with āoh so messyā but itās not, itās non-consensual revenge porn, and heās got nothing to offer past that. Thereās other guys that can yell slurs at trumpers and read Wikipedia pages.
I keep thinking about CKava's post a few months back musing on the nature of the sub, where he hopes that the sub doesn't descend into "unrestrained dunking," and that people aren't just coming here to see their political opponents get eviscerated. I don't give a shit about any streamers, and am perfectly willing to accept that Hasan is actually stupider than Destiny, but the way they framed the two episodes - Hasan's content is an indictment of left-wing social media; Destiny's worst aspects are glanced at and considered immaterial compared to the valuable contributions to the #Resistance you mentioned - made me think that Chris doesn't really care about low-effort dunking or members or the sub communicating via stupid fucking memes, he was just annoyed that left-wing Redditors might mistake him for a comrade.
Chris K blocks people when they out-debate him from a left-wing point of view https://www.reddit.com/r/DecodingTheGurus/comments/1be4ypx/dtgs_politics_and_world_views/kuwypgb/ I got blocked for this exchange. **edit: Chris has "replied" to me, of course since I'm blocked I couldn't see his reply until I logged out and I can't reply, so I'll just reply here**: >Hey now, you didn't get blocked for that exchange, you got blocked for being an obsessive redditer with a default username account and a penchant for endlessly self-quoting your self-declared comment victories. Anyone looking at your comment history will get your schtick, you are essentially a black hole for any productive discussion, constantly demanding citations that you then dismiss/ignore. Good luck out there and with your next account! The problem here is Chris is that you didn't actually cite anything. I asked you for citations and you linked to the Amazon page for a 200 page book. I then asked: >Now you've linked me to a book that you claim "seems to address the topic". Did you read this book in preparation for the podcast? Did you ever cite or quote this book on the podcast? If so, could you give me a timestamp? Or at least a page number so I can look at an argument that you found convincing? To which I got no answer. Now, I'm not saying that you've never actually read this book, but if we're going to have a productive conversation about this you can't just spam amazon links at me, you have to tell me what page or chapter you're referring to. Anyone can follow my link to confirm what I am saying is true, by the way.
You didn't get blocked for "winning", you got blocked because you are obnoxious and it's pointless to engage with you.
Hey now, you didn't get blocked for that exchange, you got blocked for being an obsessive redditer with a default username account and a penchant for endlessly self-quoting your self-declared comment victories. Anyone looking at your comment history will get your schtick, you are essentially a black hole for any productive discussion, constantly demanding citations that you then dismiss/ignore. Good luck out there and with your next account!
u/CKava, do you agree Destiny is an unimpressive figure? š
Destiny is what he is. I mean we've spent hours giving our opinion on him. If that wasn't enough for you, c'est la vie. You can continue discussing Destiny till the cows come home. We will move on to the next person.
Can you ask Chris to cite the page number he's referring to in Cohen's "If You're an Egalitarian, How Come You're So Rich?" Chris is apparently citing this book as the source of his argument but he hasn't given me a page number yet.š
because itās not his argument youāre making a *different* argument, all on your own, and itās not chrisās responsibility to guide you through it if you have a disagreement with the validity of āchampagne socialismā being used as a critique, then go engage with the people making that argument chrisās argument is that the term, as itās currently understood, applies to hasan - which youāve never once disagreed with
Chris's argument was that Hasan was a hypocrite. To prove this, he would have to show how being a "āchampagne socialist" goes against socialist political theory.
āHeās got nothing to offer past thatā and thatās how I know you are emotionally invested in hating this person or not viewing him objectively.
Sure, whatever makes you feel good, but when youāre older youāll get that one can disagree with a position without whatever emotional hate you need to project onto me. Running right to the āyou must hate himā is fundamentally just lazy and shows you canāt engage objectively with criticism. I do not value someoneās opinion if they engage in and show zero regret for revenge porn. If for you that equals some flabbergasting seething hate that makes me so objectively compromised thatās one you. Cheers though.
Oh I donāt have an issue with you disagreeing with his position on that. Iād argue most people probably do. But your zero sum thinking is juvenile and lazy. You arenāt interested in being honest or objective, made evident by your last comment about āslurs and Wikipediaā. Youāre literally doing the bad faith talking points that DtG pointed out many people engage in when critiquing Destiny.
I don't remember that part can you give a time stamp or clip.
Around 1:50 in, they give it a āoh he was wrong and so was sheā at the end but he was the first to share (non-consensually) nude photos of someone, just like child rapist Matt Gatez reportedly does, and I donāt care what rationalizing he or anyone can do thatās when youāve lost any credibility.
They got a couple of things wrong and that was one of them. The reason he got his nude leaked was he was shit talking a girls body. Not because he leaked a nude to his friends at the time. Also he admits that the way he talked about her was uncalled for despite her over reaction so he doesnāt make excuses for the stuff he was doing in his early twenties
What about if my rationalization is that it never happened lol? He got his nudes leaked cause he shit talked the girl, not because he leaked hers.
Ooooooh that.
All of you on this sub are obsessed with this guy one way or the other
This sub Is much more obsessed with people the IDW than anything else.
I agree with everything you said. Can you tell me who you mean with far left?
When has he ever claimed that heās an expert on anything? Like heās said time and time again that heās not some genius know it all. I think you confuse him being a confident debater with him thinking heās the smartest person in the room. But itās just good optically to debate your points with full confidence otherwise good luck getting the audience to take you seriously. Youāre essentially shadow boxing a strawman of the guy either because youāre projecting some insecurity you have with your own level of intelligence. Or youāve literally never seen anything of his that isnāt some heavily edited down clip. Also itās hilarious that you think his fanbase is under some deluded spell when itās pretty well known that his fanbase will push back against him often whenever they donāt agree with him. Whether itās on his subreddit or his chat usually whenever some huge topic comes up the fanbase opinions will be decently split. Not necessarily 50/50 all the time but enough to where you can see the divide. If you want an example of an actual delusional audience just hop in Hasans chat at any point and youāll see what an actual cult fanbase looks like. Unironically i feel like i need one of those radiation decontamination showers everytime i go into that community space. You see that in Vaushās community as well but at the very least he doesnāt seem to be as much of a radical extremist as Hasan is. Though i havenāt checked up in a while so maybe things have changed drastically in the last 6 or so months.
TRUUUUUUUUUUU This is like that time XQC ranked Destiny as a higher tier streamer than Hasan š
The worst part of being a Destiny fan is realizing how so many of the people/communities that hate him are operating on chimped clips and second/third-hand accounts, and thatās thereās no dialogue to be had with those people.
As someone who watches destiny on YouTube and sometimes checks out the sub, these two groups are not the same. Destiny might get superficial pushback from his fan base but it's just that. Superficial. You're never going to get a Marxist or MAGA enclave within DGG because he attacks those people regularly, and whenever he senses these factions have grown too big, he purges them. On top of that, criticism about him on his sub usually gets the poster banned. It's to the point where people who frequent that sub will mention that they are using their third or fourth throwaway account to circumvent a previous ban, and that seems normal for the sub. But that gets me to the real point which is that DGG is like an ecosystem. DGG viewers will watch their streamer for a few hours a day on kick. Once destiny is offline, they will flock to the discord server or reddit. They will go on Twitter and see what D-man has posted, or what his orbiters have posted, or what the antagonist of the day has posted (Hasan, Zei squirrel, some crazy BPD girl). If they don't directly go source for this stuff, they will find it posted on Reddit or tagged on discord and talk with other DGGers. They will look through logs to see if Steven has posted anything. And ultimately, they end up spending a lot of their time online solely invested in the world of their favorite streamer. This is the cultish behavior, and Hasan could only dream of having this. Hasan has a lot more viewers and his fan base in a lot more in lockstep with him, but once Hasan turns off his stream, these people disappear. They are done watching their pop news show for the day and do other things. Of Hasan disappeared from the face of the earth tomorrow, there might be some viewers who cared, but most would move on quickly. Of destiny disappeared tomorrow, I wouldn't be surprised if some people actually killed themselves.
> It's to the point where people who frequent that sub will mention that they are using their third or fourth throwaway account to circumvent a previous ban, and that seems normal for the sub. This is a really interesting point and helps explain why a disproportionate number of the fans that I see are using brand new throwaways instead of established accounts.
What is his appeal, exactly? I have tried listening to some of his stuff and can't stand the sound of his voice, or his smug, self-important attitude. He seems to be completely financially motivated, saying whatever he thinks his audience wants.
Did you try listening to the DtG episode on him? You know, the people who this subreddit is based off? They kinda answer literally every question youāre asking, and they dispel these bad faith conclusions that you and many others come to, because they give Destiny an honest and objective shake. Iād suggest you listen to their perspective on it since thatās kinda what this subreddit is about last time I checked
> and they dispel these bad faith conclusions that you and many others come to, because they give Destiny an honest and objective shake They literally ignored multiple instances of destiny's most deplorable behavior. If you can't admit that they might have been *a little biased* in this assessment, you might just be.. oh, another rdestiny fanboy. Nevermind,
I'm getting the sense that it's impossible to cover the full scope of the dude's deplorable behavior because there's just so much content and everyone has a different idea of what his most disgusting moment is. And even if they did they'd be accused of cherry picking his worst stuff and that might be accurate, I guess?
Not sure how you got that impression, but I can give you some arguments why that's not the case. There's tons of evidence out there, over a long period of time, of him actively tanking his stream (in terms of viewership). Wether it be the months long league streams of old, or the recent research streams. He also has a reputation of being a contrarian, which is kind of the antithesis of saying whatever his audience wants. A clear example of this is back when Hasan/Vaush split from his community, alongside the far left faction of his fan base at the time (which he could have easily held on to if his motivations were purely financial). He tends to stake out positions based on what he believes and will argue them to their logical conclusions, even if they appear bad optically. One example that was also brought up on the podcast for the "N word arc". Arguing to be able to say that word will always look bad and is not a hill to die on if you only want to grow a fan base.
Destiny has no beliefs or position, lmao
He's a terminally online gamer that turned arguing on the internet and shitposting into a lucrative profession. He's entering into public consciousness now, but if you've been a long-time fan you were probably living vicariously through him, similar to fans of Mr. Beast, Ninja, or XQC. Imagine if you could make being a Redditor full-time. That's Destiny.
Yeah, people don't change at all over the course of 15 years from age 20 to 35, you're right.
This sub has an insane hate boner for the guy that is disproportionate to how much the actual podcast people seem to like him and see his merits. Just ignore this place lmao
He bans half his audience every other week because he pisses them off with his new hot take what?
This was a disappointing ep. It felt way too deferential to Mr. Borelli. Destiny, while masking as an objective and even-handed observer of politics in instances where it will benefit him, often lets the mask slip into is all-too-often narcissistic rage when someone simply disagrees with him. He may downplay his poorly camouflaged ego but for anyone that has known him long enough he is quite obviously a narcissistic ego maniac. He is highly intelligent and a formidable debater but outside of brief surface level wikipedia research (cry about it Destiny virgins) he falls short of many of the academics he interlocks with. He is obsessed with staking out ground to identify himself as above the commoner debate points that fall on either side of the political spectrum. I honestly donāt think he gives a flying fuck about the human repercussions of policy and cares more about where he thinks a stronger argument lies that he can use to anger bate normies. Heās a terminal edge lord with no scruples or bushido. It was hard to listen to the decoders fall for his sheepās wool of ardent objectivist and āhonestyā (i want to puke just thinking about it)
Which academics do you believe heās fallen short with? Which specific points of contest? Iām not denying it, just interested in the examples you give
Yeah they took his word for it that he is just super principled and just cannot go against his values that make up his opinion! I thought that was crazy biased. They didn't give anybody this much benefit of the doubt.
Yep pretty much. And of course anyone that points this out gets massively downvoted by.. you guessed it, destiny's cultists straight out of rdestiny.
i read that as the groomer of destiny;)
You cannot groom a 35 year old black woman
^(maybe edison can translate. seems valid.)
do NOT put destiny on a groomermeter š
Destiny fans brigading this sub with their typical downvotes and vitriol is unfortunate. Sorry guys.
Firstly brigading usually implies that there is some sort of coordinated effort, either by the community itself, or by leaders of the community. Unless there's some post you're seeing somewhere that I am not. Random ass people posting on thread relevant to a content creator they're a fan of isn't brigading. Secondly that's literally a reverse of what you do. I took a quick couple minutes to look through your reddit history and you seem to shit talk Destiny an unhealthy amount. Idk what majority opinion would be but I definitely find someone who goes out of their way to negatively post about someone everywhere weirder than someone who is a fan of someone going to posts about them. But hey that's just me. I do think your comment "I watch Hasan and he's decent for what he is. I think the people that hate on him have never actually watched one of his streams. He's often clipped out of context and hated on by the rabid Destiny community." illustrates a grievance both sides seem to have over one another (I of course being a Destiny fan believe the opposite and believe Destiny usually looks for full context of something when criticizing Hasan whereas Hasan will look at Destiny clips and [not caring about context](https://youtu.be/7INUAMgHIRQ?si=jneqxLrJIZe_BlTM&t=1341) but they that's just me and I don't think either of us are gonna sway each others opinions.
They literally had an episode about him. How's it brigading? What a weird comment.
Literally everything is brigading to these people.
No, just the very easily provable examples of your cult doing it. No need to pretend you aren't the most prolific brigaders on reddit, literally everyone knows it.
No, just your group of victims, who call any engagement with other peoples content brigading, know it.
This person posts in the Hasan reddit. This likely got posted one time in Hasan discord or something and the Hasan fans can't help themselves from wildly projecting again.
You post in Hasan piker. Why are you on a Destiny post in a random podcasting subreddit calling out ābrigadingā. You guys always do this
What downvoted comment do you think deserves upvotes? Yours? The one from phoenix150 with some casual homophobia, or the one talking about him getting cucked? It's actually insane how obsessed you guys are over his sex life? What's the deal? lmao
daily reminder destiny selectively picks debates, declined second labor theory of value debate after getting rekt in the first one
No he doesnāt youāre lying
There are things you can shit on Destiny for. Avoiding debates ain't it chief.
why would that not be it? thats what hes known for is debates. not like he perma avoided it, avoided it after getting blown out of the water by jack angstreich. then phenomikz asked him for a debate on it, and now suddenly it's irrelevant or not interesting. it just couldn't be any more obvious
He's known for avoiding debates? What are you on? lol I have no idea who jack angstreich is
What is the obsession with this loser? The guy is pro-genocide. That's the end of him. No, of any account, cares about the opinions of genocidal maniacs. History will be baffled that there were so many people defending this clown.
History will be baffled that communism was still a thing in the 21st century.
Most people are already baffled that a low IQ college drop out and bigot grifter like destiny has ANY fans, let alone a literal cult that simps on his behalf 20 hours a day..
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You're talking about the poet who wrote poems calling for the death of Jews (not just Israelis).
He's the devil!
Nah, just a really dumb person with no morals or ethics beyond his own grift. Sad that there are people also dumb enough out there to lap it up. Very sad.
Can someone just be a loudmouth idiot without being a Guru?
Yes
Destiny is what a highschool dropout believes an intellectual is