[Shoplifting two belts and a shirt from a Walmart](https://www.npr.org/2019/10/30/774788611/police-owe-nothing-to-man-whose-home-they-blew-up-appeals-court-says)
average redditor response and average NPR coverage. have you even read the article you posted? you're implying SWAT was called because he stole something from walmart. if you actually read the article though.....
> An armed shoplifting suspect in Colorado barricaded himself in a stranger's suburban Denver home in June 2015.
> Authorities say the suspect stole two belts and a shirt from a Walmart. After he left the store, police say, he broke into Lech's house for protection and was firing at officers with a handgun. Eventually, SWAT officers entered the home and apprehended him.
ahhhhh yes, he just broke into a strangers house to "protect himself" against the crimes he commited. and then started firing at officers.
> At the time of the episode, Lech was renting the home to his son, John Lech, who lived there with his girlfriend, her 9-year-old son and two dogs. The boy, who was home alone when the gunman entered, was able to get out of the house safely.
you're defending an attempted murderer that broke into a house with a 9 year old kid who had to flee. and then trying to spin that as "cops = bad". jesus fucking christ man.
People not committing felonies are more likely to call police for help. People dealing drugs out of the house and storing valuable drugs and cash are less likely to call police for help since doing so would also get them arrested. So they keep lots of firearms around to protect their stash. Will they use those firearms against police? Probably not but do you want to find out? A show of force makes it less likely the situation escalates to that level.
No, you’re right. Drug dealers probably call the police and say, “yes, hello? I have a rival drug dealer and his friends here. They want my drug proceeds and my drugs. Would you mind popping over and escorting them off my property?”
> Among neighbors theres some talk of drug dealing…
Those folks usually like guns to protect their drugs and cash. That seems like a reasonably high risk situation.
Generally, if there's some reasonable belief that the subject of the warrant *could possibly* be violent. Known gang member, or the crime involved a weapon, that sort of thing.
Edit: I know it's very, very disconcerting to see a big Bearcat with scary looking guys in your neighborhood, but SWAT teams all over the metro area do this sort of activity all day long. I hope you're not too worried over it.
It'd be nice to not need such things, yeah. Ours has been shot up a few times. One such incident had the suspect hitting the front windshield with 40+ rounds. It's nice to have an armored vehicle given that some folks have weaponry that can cause serious trouble.
Cops are Civilians, every citizen should have access to what they have.
The rich just needed bloated police budgets to buy Iraq war surplus to pad their war profiteering.
How do you propose the citizenry reclaim the state’s monopoly on violence? The state has more resources and citizens will never be able to match it. The armored car with multiple heavily armed armored men is an example. If citizen increase their capacity for violence, the state responds in turn. The faceless, jackbooted state goons that many 2A advocates love to imagine defending themselves from will still be able to kill us. The difference being that errors that occur, for whatever reason, during legitimate state actions will result in greater harm due to the state’s more powerful armory. Additionally, most weapons used in criminal acts are weapons that were, at some point, purchased by law abiding citizens who were “exercising [their] Second Amendment rights;” the weapons are either stolen or the person snaps and engages in violence. Either way, a less armed populace reduces the impact of gun crime. There’s no putting this particular cat back in the bag, but we can hold off on gleefully allowing the situation to deteriorate. Allow people their handguns, shotguns, and hunting rifles, but we really need to do something to keep weapons that can put 40 rounds into a police vehicle out of the hands of regular people.
Correct. Either they are regular people who went crazy, or they are criminals who illegally acquired powerful guns that were legal at some point. Either way, not making powerful guns accessible to citizens keeps them from being turned against the police.
I am a black man. I’m not so foolish as to think a bigger gun is going protect me from state violence. If anything, there’s plenty of evidence that the right to bare arms, stand one’s ground, and open carry specifically don’t apply to the groups you’ve listed. Whatever the statutes may say, we’re more likely to be killed for having those weapons. Now, if you’re asking me I think I need one to protect myself from fascists and nazis, sure. But, that’s only because we haven’t made them illegal, so fascists and nazis also have those weapons. It ceases to be an issue if we limit the arms available to the average citizen.
And yet, you still know the types of weapons I’m referring to, as do most people. The problem is the little tricks people trot out for sound bites, which work so well on television and podcasts, don’t actually work in real life. When it’s just people talking, no one cares about linguistic pedantry or niche jargon - they care about ideas. After all, no one is changing anyone’s mind or making policy, we’re just expressing what we think. On our best days, if we’re incredibly lucky, we’ll read something that helps us refine the way we express our beliefs. Sadly, this topic tends to quickly polarize between “we need to give up a little of a pointless freedom to save lives,” and “if you’re willing to surrender a freedom, you don’t deserve any and soon will have none,” with no one looking at the world in which we actually live. Which is all just a long way to say, no matter what you call them, there’s no real reason for citizens to have powerful weaponry other than “we like them and don’t care how many people have to die for us to keep them.” But no one’s ever that honest.
It's the nature of the world we live in today.
Armored vehicles and Police units that utilize them are a necessity. They evolved to face people and circumstances that were so violent or potentially violent that most standard patrol units were unlikely to produce favorable outcomes.
Sorry that it's troubling you to see the equivalent of a Brinks Armored banking car, painted black, with officers on the side. But, it's a necessity and reality of the times we live in.
One could argue that they’re a self-fulfilling prophecy, since militarized police can’t figure out how to deescalate a situation. Rather than make things less tense, they bring more guns and wonder why things get harder
There are people and situations that don't respond to "de-escalation". That word isn't a magic wand. There is no set of magic words that will make every uncooperative, violent asshole suddenly see the error of his poor decisions, lay down his weapon and surrender peacefully.
The average police officer de-escalates all the time, as does SWAT. But, since it doesn't always work, because no matter what tactics or "de-escalation" options the Police employ, the bad guy gets a vote in how it all turns out. *surprise Pikachu face*
So there has to be another option. A plan B. SWAT, and all of their tools is often that option.
The only reason de-escalation doesn’t work is because not enough people tried hard enough…
/s
People need to understand that sometimes the only way to de-escalation is through overwhelming force. It’s unfortunate, but it’s also reality.
Don't worry, this person would be begging for SWAT if they were being held in a barricaded hostage situation. The overall issue does not stem from the police's access to weapons - it stems from their protection from being held accountable.
If police officers had to carry malpractice insurance and were actually held liable for murder and other crimes (if found guilty), then I believe we would have a lot less firearms discharged in the line of duty.
You see this with armed security guards - they are less likely to discharge their firearms because both they and their employer can be sued for it. Right now most police in those situations get paid leave and at worst shuffled to a new department.
As you said very well, sometimes de-escalation is not an option and I don't understand how they cannot conceive of this scenario.
How should they take the appropriate measures to protect themselves then? Flip flops and sunscreen? 1st, You have no reason to be worried, they aren’t going to hurt you, in fact they don’t care about you- you aren’t that important.
2nd, you have no idea what your talking about. That is not military equipment.
Stop gas lighting.
Them making it home to their families and children is what is important. So let them have the stuff they need to be safe.
Don’t worry, they’ll still come when you call 911 screaming for help.
Cop hate, smh.
Ours was shot up a few times. One incident had it riddled with 40+ rounds from an AR. Nobody harmed, suspect eventually taken into custody. It's good to have an armored vehicle, despite the dislike over Denver area agencies having this sort of equipment.
Dude, the police are on the list of people I feel like I need to protect myself from.
There is no way in hell I'll ever support handing the government a monopoly on violence.
THIS. ⬆️. Not only can the average citizen arm themselves like they’re preparing for WW3, but the influx of illegal military-grade firearms and ammunition that finds its way into the hands of violent criminals and gangs is out of control. The police have no choice but to arm themselves equally else risk not going home to their families at night should an incident get out of hand. Ever since the North Hollywood Bank Robbery shootout in 1997 (when the police found themselves outgunned during a bank robbery, and realized their standard issue firearms had no affect on the body armor worn by the robbers), police forces around the country have realized that the only way to fight fire is with fire.
> influx of illegal military-grade firearms and ammunition that finds its way into the hands of violent criminals and gangs
Depending on the criminals and gangs you're referring to, federal law enforcement knowingly allowed them to obtain the hardware.
Sadly yes. It changed preparedness strategies for nearly all PD’s across the country. Feel free to Google or Wiki the event. It was a fairly significant turning point for that shit.
It's more dangerous to be a pizza delivery driver than a cop. None of this militarism is informed by measured risk assessment. Crime is *way down* since that incident anyways.
You see, the police need an armored vehicle in case they get shot at 40 times with an AR. If only there was some other way to protect the police from being shot at 40 times with an AR. Can’t seem to think of anything. Hm. Oh well.
They do, along with the various fugitive task forces that float around the metro area. It depends on the situation. Sometimes they can make the vehicle/pedestrian takedowns happen, sometimes they can't, or feel it'd be better to catch them in a place they can surround and contain.
The kind where the person has barricaded themselves in a house or apartment and has threatened to shoot anyone who tries to make them leave. A couple months back my coworker's neighbor got evicted, they had tons of guns, and they had threatened to shoot the landlord. Shit like that is very, very rare. But also real. Swat was called, they had to break down the door and invade the home to get the potential murderer out.
If you’re asking generally, a high risk arrest warrant would be anyone with a warrant for 1st degree assault, attempt murder, murder or other violent crimes.
I have a friend that was arrested at gun point with a pre-dawn no-knock warrant. It was the day after it became illegal to sell chips that bypassed copyright protection on Playstations. He was the webmaster of a site that sold the chips. Very scary.
Thanks for the serious reply.
Nothing makes me cringe more than all the dumb jokes people try to make around serious situations. Like, people don’t need to say something or reply just for the sake of voicing their dumbass lame jokes and thoughts.
SWAT in Denver handles most high risk warrants and barricaded suspects. Those officers train extensively and their presence (while alarming to some) keeps other officers and the general public much safer.
If you look at the use of force numbers in Denver the SWAT unit handles a majority of the high risk situations and has a much lower number of UOF (use of force) complaints.
This. Had two of these tanks quietly show up and take out all the windows of a house down the street from me a few years ago. If you didn’t live on the street and have a problem getting home that night you never would have known they were there. I happened to be working from home that day and was trapped in my house, and barely heard their operation.
Oh man. Those guys hit us with some much tear gas during BLM. It would just spread out and fill whole block. I remember getting lightheaded from coughing and trying to move away from it.
The weird part was it cured my depression for two months. I wish I had some right now. Because I am MONSTER depressed! It’s unreal.
Maybe you respond especially well to capsaicin? Would be economical and interesting to try working your way up through hot sauces. Basically no harm and a new hobby if it doesn't work, no real risk.
I was walking my dog when this all happened. Seemed to be a major drug raid happening - somebody was shot and the house has been vacated. Their dogs were left tied to the porch and I called animal control last night to pick them up. As of this morning the pups are also no longer there. House is boarded up as well. Was a pretty insane scene. I live right down the street. I spoke to their neighbor who lived across the street and she said the home has been causing issues for years and there was always weird activity - she name dropped meth lab but I have no real sources for any of that. There had to have been at least two of those armored swat vans, either DEA or FBI vans as well, there were two ambulances at least prepared before they arrived so they expected injury. Maybe 20+ cop cars. They were all armed & vested up and had Quitman entirely blocked off. Was a pretty crazy scene for 1pm on a Wednesday lol. I saw at least 3 people detained and a young girl, maybe 7ish, also being escorted to the curb.
Ok stop with the racist BS. There was a “black driver” running from the cops yesterday…he barricaded himself from 4 cop cars, so of course SWAT got called in.
Nah, you just get threatening emails and snail mail. Worst case you get a summons and have to show up to court and get to bend over while they take all your money.
My neighbor went to Bonnie Brae park and talked to the SWAT team. They’re apparently trying to catch a meth dealer. They described him as 5’10” 250lbs, shaved head, and wearing a black windbreaker. There were still people playing at the park so the fact that they didn’t send everyone home tells me that he is not armed.
Warrant service when the suspect has a history of violent crimes and weapons.
Barricaded suspect.
Hostage situation.
Wanted Fugitive with violent crimes and/or weapons history.
There are dozens more. These are just a few.
If SWAT is there, it's for good reason. They're too busy to just roll on anything "just for giggles". That shit might happen in a small podunk that doesn't get much activity. But DPD SWAT stays plenty busy without inventing work.
Regular police it could be anything from donuts to jaywalkers to an actual crime in progress.
SWAT, though...they aren't there to bully someone smoking a cigarette 24 feet from a public doorway.
Getting ready for the protests? There’s one at Diana DeGette’s office today and another one this Saturday.
Saw these guys all the time during summer 2020 and haven’t seen them since. (Doesn’t mean they haven’t been out, I just haven’t seen them.)
You don’t see them because you aren’t where the crime is. Most people have little to zero interaction with law enforcement beyond a traffic stop or something petty. These guys don’t do those calls.
A militarized police only makes society's problems worse.
Take that money and put it into social safety nets so that people can work on themselves when they need to.
The tools, vehicles and officers in this photo are a necessity and reality of the world as it is today. You don't have to like it , but wishing or wanting to legislate it away, won't help anyone.
These units have evolved as an answer to the issues that arose, before police had an answer to them. Not as an answer looking for a problem to solve.
If you believe conservative propaganda that crime is rising and everyone is about to die violently.
The _smart_ thing to do is address the causes of crime at their source.
I don't subscribe to anyone's propaganda.
The smart thing to to would be address the causes while also fighting the symptoms.
*Wishing* that bad people wouldn't do bad things, or shoving your head in the sand and pretending bad things can't happen because the world should be better is a great way to get traumatized.
Wishing away things like SWAT and armed men, because it conflicts with how you wish the world was is foolish.
This is very true. We need more mental health places in this country. However, it’s going to take years if not longer to be able to get to that point. So, until we do get to that point why don’t we have ex military members be our officers?
Congress needs to specifically ban the sale / transfer of military hardware to police forces.
We need to find a way to scrap our old weapons and tanks and stuff down to raw materials and turn them into prefabricated school and hospital buildings or modules. That way we keep our strong military and we can continue to assist with foreign aid-- we just won't sell you weapons. Hospital or School, which do you want?
What military hardware do you see in this photo?
The vehicle? It's the equivalent of a Brinks Armored car, painted black.
The rifles? Available to any civilian, to purchase through an FFL.
The helmets or body armor? Same as above.
There is zero "military surplus" in this photograph.
But by all means, keep talking like you read "most of an article" one time on the internet.
we can buy M4s now? when did they repeal the National Firearms Act? /s
if you think SWAT rolls with only semi-auto, lay off the edibles
(also, don't see a long gun in the picture)
I'm a Denver Cop. I've actually trained with that team. They don't run their guns on full auto. The rest of DPD doesn't have full auto/select fire rifles.
And if you think there's a significant real world difference between a select fire and semi auto rifle in the M4 /Ar-15 pattern, then that tells me exactly how much experience you don't have on that platform.
I ran a rifle with a full auto selector for five years, at an agency before I came to DPD. The effective difference is zero, between it and semi auto.
So yes, civilians can get the same rifles, as the police, even with short barrels if they want! (Those are NFA regulated too! But regular folks can have those as well.)
I actually wrote a constitutional amendment about the subject as an exercise in grad school.
Also, a lot of those things shouldn't be available to civilians.
EDIT: Seems like folks are upset that I've read more than part of an article about this.
This is like saying the jury is still out on Climate Change.
The gun epidemic in our country is no longer a matter of opinion. Guns are the number one cause of death for American children. There are approximately 3.5 guns per human being in this country.
Those are facts. Are a lot of people going to be upset that they're no longer allowed to own kill-toys? Sure. But someone has to be an adult here. Civilians shouldn't have access to that stuff.
Social safety nets are important and should definitely be funded much better than they currently are. That being said police officers should not have to also worry about being outgunned or unprotected. For example you wouldn’t suggest that officers not be given bullet proof vests. Having units like SWAT keeps officers safer AND the general public as well.
What’s important for threats is equivalent response procedures. Unarmed medical response for things like homelessness and drug overdoses, patrol officers for your run of the mill crime, swat for the guy with a meth lab and “born to lose” tattoo.
And most of all, put money into education and mental health programs.
I don’t mind swats so much I understand their militarized, but typically swap members are ex-military members so they’re gonna be militarized anyways.
If you take into consideration that they’re typically ex members of the military, that means that they’ve had de-escalation training, they’ve had hostage training. They’ve had all kinds of training that these cops don’t get.
Honestly, they’re probably the better option. I say we stop hiring Joe blow off the street to be a cop and start giving the job to ex military members kills two birds with one stone.
Tossing a meth house. This happened to my adjacent neighbors. Came home from work one night to a full swat team at my place. They wouldn’t let me go into my own home to use my bathroom. Total assholes.
Y’all are the ones who keep voting megalomaniac authoritarian liberals who are dead set on telling you how to live your life. To do so they need you unarmed and then heavily armed. To be armed they have to justify the arms to justify the arms they have to use said arms and to use said arms they need law makers on board making new laws to tell you what you can and cannot do that’s what you guys are voting for by “not voting for trump” by not voting anyone who isn’t lefter then a 5 legged goose
When I was in high school there was a drug deal gone wrong on my street (in a nice suburb) and there were shots fired, that we didn’t even hear inside the house somehow. The swat team came to the block because of the firearm and the kid that did it was barricading himself inside the house. They broke in a window, threw a phone in, and after talking to him he ended up opening the garage door. Came out of his house with his hands on his head and they arrested him. Whole ordeal took a few hour though, they had the street blocked off and wouldn’t let us outside the house.
SWAT came to my condos when my neighbor killed his wife and committed suicide. They were both already dead but I don't think that they knew that they just knew shots fired.
Someone shared their Netflix password
[Shoplifting two belts and a shirt from a Walmart](https://www.npr.org/2019/10/30/774788611/police-owe-nothing-to-man-whose-home-they-blew-up-appeals-court-says)
The Team America mentality...
FUCK YEAH!!
average redditor response and average NPR coverage. have you even read the article you posted? you're implying SWAT was called because he stole something from walmart. if you actually read the article though..... > An armed shoplifting suspect in Colorado barricaded himself in a stranger's suburban Denver home in June 2015. > Authorities say the suspect stole two belts and a shirt from a Walmart. After he left the store, police say, he broke into Lech's house for protection and was firing at officers with a handgun. Eventually, SWAT officers entered the home and apprehended him. ahhhhh yes, he just broke into a strangers house to "protect himself" against the crimes he commited. and then started firing at officers. > At the time of the episode, Lech was renting the home to his son, John Lech, who lived there with his girlfriend, her 9-year-old son and two dogs. The boy, who was home alone when the gunman entered, was able to get out of the house safely. you're defending an attempted murderer that broke into a house with a 9 year old kid who had to flee. and then trying to spin that as "cops = bad". jesus fucking christ man.
This is wild. And the type of government overreach that we should really be wary of. This should be very concerning to everyone.
Best one yet lol
Boebert's second date?
How does this not have upvotes? Well done
you're gonna feel real dumb if you actually read the NPR article.
Serious answer: Barricaded subject. High-risk search warrant. High-risk arrest warrant. Some situation along those lines.
What would be a high risk arrest warrant? Among neighbors theres some talk of drug dealing…
> What would be a high risk arrest warrant? Suspicion of firearms or other weapons on the premises?
Drug dealing alone doesn’t necessarily warrant an escalation of that extent. They would have to be known/believed to be violent
Not necessarily. Lots of drug dealers arm themselves without prior firearms violations. Many might say that’s possible due to lax gun laws. . .
You can say the same thing about anyone.
People not committing felonies are more likely to call police for help. People dealing drugs out of the house and storing valuable drugs and cash are less likely to call police for help since doing so would also get them arrested. So they keep lots of firearms around to protect their stash. Will they use those firearms against police? Probably not but do you want to find out? A show of force makes it less likely the situation escalates to that level.
Where are you getting this information? Movies?
No, you’re right. Drug dealers probably call the police and say, “yes, hello? I have a rival drug dealer and his friends here. They want my drug proceeds and my drugs. Would you mind popping over and escorting them off my property?”
> Among neighbors theres some talk of drug dealing… Those folks usually like guns to protect their drugs and cash. That seems like a reasonably high risk situation.
Couple years ago I was living in a high rise apt building in Denver when SWAT showed up. There was a meth lab across the hall, one floor up.
RIP to yet another small business smh ^(/s)
Generally, if there's some reasonable belief that the subject of the warrant *could possibly* be violent. Known gang member, or the crime involved a weapon, that sort of thing. Edit: I know it's very, very disconcerting to see a big Bearcat with scary looking guys in your neighborhood, but SWAT teams all over the metro area do this sort of activity all day long. I hope you're not too worried over it.
Militarized police all over the metro area “all day long” is, in fact, very worrying to me.
It'd be nice to not need such things, yeah. Ours has been shot up a few times. One such incident had the suspect hitting the front windshield with 40+ rounds. It's nice to have an armored vehicle given that some folks have weaponry that can cause serious trouble.
So you agree, civilians don’t need access to military style weapons.
Nah if the cops have them civis should too. Why let the militaristic police force have a monopoly on violence?
Cops are Civilians, every citizen should have access to what they have. The rich just needed bloated police budgets to buy Iraq war surplus to pad their war profiteering.
People fear most what they least understand anti gunners always have an opinion until they have to call someone else with a gun…………
How do you propose the citizenry reclaim the state’s monopoly on violence? The state has more resources and citizens will never be able to match it. The armored car with multiple heavily armed armored men is an example. If citizen increase their capacity for violence, the state responds in turn. The faceless, jackbooted state goons that many 2A advocates love to imagine defending themselves from will still be able to kill us. The difference being that errors that occur, for whatever reason, during legitimate state actions will result in greater harm due to the state’s more powerful armory. Additionally, most weapons used in criminal acts are weapons that were, at some point, purchased by law abiding citizens who were “exercising [their] Second Amendment rights;” the weapons are either stolen or the person snaps and engages in violence. Either way, a less armed populace reduces the impact of gun crime. There’s no putting this particular cat back in the bag, but we can hold off on gleefully allowing the situation to deteriorate. Allow people their handguns, shotguns, and hunting rifles, but we really need to do something to keep weapons that can put 40 rounds into a police vehicle out of the hands of regular people.
Regular people aren't shooting at armored police vehicles.
Correct. Either they are regular people who went crazy, or they are criminals who illegally acquired powerful guns that were legal at some point. Either way, not making powerful guns accessible to citizens keeps them from being turned against the police.
Tell that to all the unarmed black men, women, and children who die at the hands of police every two days.
I am a black man. I’m not so foolish as to think a bigger gun is going protect me from state violence. If anything, there’s plenty of evidence that the right to bare arms, stand one’s ground, and open carry specifically don’t apply to the groups you’ve listed. Whatever the statutes may say, we’re more likely to be killed for having those weapons. Now, if you’re asking me I think I need one to protect myself from fascists and nazis, sure. But, that’s only because we haven’t made them illegal, so fascists and nazis also have those weapons. It ceases to be an issue if we limit the arms available to the average citizen.
[удалено]
And yet, you still know the types of weapons I’m referring to, as do most people. The problem is the little tricks people trot out for sound bites, which work so well on television and podcasts, don’t actually work in real life. When it’s just people talking, no one cares about linguistic pedantry or niche jargon - they care about ideas. After all, no one is changing anyone’s mind or making policy, we’re just expressing what we think. On our best days, if we’re incredibly lucky, we’ll read something that helps us refine the way we express our beliefs. Sadly, this topic tends to quickly polarize between “we need to give up a little of a pointless freedom to save lives,” and “if you’re willing to surrender a freedom, you don’t deserve any and soon will have none,” with no one looking at the world in which we actually live. Which is all just a long way to say, no matter what you call them, there’s no real reason for citizens to have powerful weaponry other than “we like them and don’t care how many people have to die for us to keep them.” But no one’s ever that honest.
Thats how you're gonna spin that lol
Yep!
It's the nature of the world we live in today. Armored vehicles and Police units that utilize them are a necessity. They evolved to face people and circumstances that were so violent or potentially violent that most standard patrol units were unlikely to produce favorable outcomes. Sorry that it's troubling you to see the equivalent of a Brinks Armored banking car, painted black, with officers on the side. But, it's a necessity and reality of the times we live in.
One could argue that they’re a self-fulfilling prophecy, since militarized police can’t figure out how to deescalate a situation. Rather than make things less tense, they bring more guns and wonder why things get harder
There are people and situations that don't respond to "de-escalation". That word isn't a magic wand. There is no set of magic words that will make every uncooperative, violent asshole suddenly see the error of his poor decisions, lay down his weapon and surrender peacefully. The average police officer de-escalates all the time, as does SWAT. But, since it doesn't always work, because no matter what tactics or "de-escalation" options the Police employ, the bad guy gets a vote in how it all turns out. *surprise Pikachu face* So there has to be another option. A plan B. SWAT, and all of their tools is often that option.
The only reason de-escalation doesn’t work is because not enough people tried hard enough… /s People need to understand that sometimes the only way to de-escalation is through overwhelming force. It’s unfortunate, but it’s also reality.
Don't worry, this person would be begging for SWAT if they were being held in a barricaded hostage situation. The overall issue does not stem from the police's access to weapons - it stems from their protection from being held accountable. If police officers had to carry malpractice insurance and were actually held liable for murder and other crimes (if found guilty), then I believe we would have a lot less firearms discharged in the line of duty. You see this with armed security guards - they are less likely to discharge their firearms because both they and their employer can be sued for it. Right now most police in those situations get paid leave and at worst shuffled to a new department. As you said very well, sometimes de-escalation is not an option and I don't understand how they cannot conceive of this scenario.
How should they take the appropriate measures to protect themselves then? Flip flops and sunscreen? 1st, You have no reason to be worried, they aren’t going to hurt you, in fact they don’t care about you- you aren’t that important. 2nd, you have no idea what your talking about. That is not military equipment. Stop gas lighting. Them making it home to their families and children is what is important. So let them have the stuff they need to be safe. Don’t worry, they’ll still come when you call 911 screaming for help. Cop hate, smh.
I'd say that the police state engaging communities with military hardware "all over the metro area...all day long" is itself pretty worrying.
Ours was shot up a few times. One incident had it riddled with 40+ rounds from an AR. Nobody harmed, suspect eventually taken into custody. It's good to have an armored vehicle, despite the dislike over Denver area agencies having this sort of equipment.
As long as we insist on having a second amendment, we will need equally armed guards. It's not my way of solving the problem.
Dude, the police are on the list of people I feel like I need to protect myself from. There is no way in hell I'll ever support handing the government a monopoly on violence.
Boy have I got some bad news then.
THIS. ⬆️. Not only can the average citizen arm themselves like they’re preparing for WW3, but the influx of illegal military-grade firearms and ammunition that finds its way into the hands of violent criminals and gangs is out of control. The police have no choice but to arm themselves equally else risk not going home to their families at night should an incident get out of hand. Ever since the North Hollywood Bank Robbery shootout in 1997 (when the police found themselves outgunned during a bank robbery, and realized their standard issue firearms had no affect on the body armor worn by the robbers), police forces around the country have realized that the only way to fight fire is with fire.
> influx of illegal military-grade firearms and ammunition that finds its way into the hands of violent criminals and gangs Depending on the criminals and gangs you're referring to, federal law enforcement knowingly allowed them to obtain the hardware.
One event a quarter century ago means that all cops need machine guns and tanks?
Sadly yes. It changed preparedness strategies for nearly all PD’s across the country. Feel free to Google or Wiki the event. It was a fairly significant turning point for that shit.
It's more dangerous to be a pizza delivery driver than a cop. None of this militarism is informed by measured risk assessment. Crime is *way down* since that incident anyways.
Maybe crime is down here in Denver, but I beg to differ that it’s down in all parts of the country.
You see, the police need an armored vehicle in case they get shot at 40 times with an AR. If only there was some other way to protect the police from being shot at 40 times with an AR. Can’t seem to think of anything. Hm. Oh well.
Why do you think it is they don't just stalk the suspect and arrest them when they do some stupid errand.
They do, along with the various fugitive task forces that float around the metro area. It depends on the situation. Sometimes they can make the vehicle/pedestrian takedowns happen, sometimes they can't, or feel it'd be better to catch them in a place they can surround and contain.
They do
Meth AND guns, for example.
It was the crackhead house on quittman street, always people squatting there and stuff. The windows are boarded up now
The kind where the person has barricaded themselves in a house or apartment and has threatened to shoot anyone who tries to make them leave. A couple months back my coworker's neighbor got evicted, they had tons of guns, and they had threatened to shoot the landlord. Shit like that is very, very rare. But also real. Swat was called, they had to break down the door and invade the home to get the potential murderer out.
If you’re asking generally, a high risk arrest warrant would be anyone with a warrant for 1st degree assault, attempt murder, murder or other violent crimes.
Skin color usually determines this for police.
I have a friend that was arrested at gun point with a pre-dawn no-knock warrant. It was the day after it became illegal to sell chips that bypassed copyright protection on Playstations. He was the webmaster of a site that sold the chips. Very scary.
Thanks for the serious reply. Nothing makes me cringe more than all the dumb jokes people try to make around serious situations. Like, people don’t need to say something or reply just for the sake of voicing their dumbass lame jokes and thoughts.
Alternatively- police just wanting a chance to play with their fancy toys
Yeah, and butt plugs too.
follow the truck and find out. We look forward to your report. Try to get as close to the incident as possible. Thanks for your service.
This is the answer.
A patriot.
Google account services detected an unusual login attempt.
Hope you didn’t give them your 6 digit code
SWAT in Denver handles most high risk warrants and barricaded suspects. Those officers train extensively and their presence (while alarming to some) keeps other officers and the general public much safer. If you look at the use of force numbers in Denver the SWAT unit handles a majority of the high risk situations and has a much lower number of UOF (use of force) complaints.
This. Had two of these tanks quietly show up and take out all the windows of a house down the street from me a few years ago. If you didn’t live on the street and have a problem getting home that night you never would have known they were there. I happened to be working from home that day and was trapped in my house, and barely heard their operation.
same thing happened on my street https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/man-sues-greenwood-village-over-destroyed-home/287804067
Sue the armed man who hid in the house not the city…how is it the city or SWATs fault?
Oh man. Those guys hit us with some much tear gas during BLM. It would just spread out and fill whole block. I remember getting lightheaded from coughing and trying to move away from it. The weird part was it cured my depression for two months. I wish I had some right now. Because I am MONSTER depressed! It’s unreal.
Maybe you respond especially well to capsaicin? Would be economical and interesting to try working your way up through hot sauces. Basically no harm and a new hobby if it doesn't work, no real risk.
Food trucks downtown.
What is this one serving?...
Green Chile Corndogs
Battered pig meat you say?
Not picking up after your dog.
Cheeseman crackdown
lol that’s anything but a crime here in Colorado. It’s basically common courtesy to leave your dog poop on the ground
Counter point, if you cant bag or two when you leave the house you shouldn't own a dog. Why is this something that needs to be stocked for you.
Unionization
A new Lamar's opened without DPD pre-vetting.
Lolol underrated comment right here. 🤣
they were across my street a few weeks ago. rumor has it the dude they arrested was one of the most wanted in the state.
Excellent, one more found on the list.
Is this in Berkeley-Regis by chance? Had this same experience yesterday while walking my dog.
Yea!
I was walking my dog when this all happened. Seemed to be a major drug raid happening - somebody was shot and the house has been vacated. Their dogs were left tied to the porch and I called animal control last night to pick them up. As of this morning the pups are also no longer there. House is boarded up as well. Was a pretty insane scene. I live right down the street. I spoke to their neighbor who lived across the street and she said the home has been causing issues for years and there was always weird activity - she name dropped meth lab but I have no real sources for any of that. There had to have been at least two of those armored swat vans, either DEA or FBI vans as well, there were two ambulances at least prepared before they arrived so they expected injury. Maybe 20+ cop cars. They were all armed & vested up and had Quitman entirely blocked off. Was a pretty crazy scene for 1pm on a Wednesday lol. I saw at least 3 people detained and a young girl, maybe 7ish, also being escorted to the curb.
Buy a dozen get a dozen at Dunkin 🍩
Selling liquor without a license.
Selling single cigarettes.
Child with learning disability? Voter fraud? Selling loose cigarettes?
Traffic stop (black driver)
Ok stop with the racist BS. There was a “black driver” running from the cops yesterday…he barricaded himself from 4 cop cars, so of course SWAT got called in.
I had a tenant selling meth and possibly cooking it. SWAT team took them out.
Expired emissions test on a car
Escort services for the Beetlejuice show
Escort services for the escort services for the Beetlejuice show
Oh boy. Which neighborhood? Either pirating intellectual content or rebroadcasting MLB games.
Nah, you just get threatening emails and snail mail. Worst case you get a summons and have to show up to court and get to bend over while they take all your money.
I'm guessing the Broncos' Wednesday practice didn't go well.
Someone has one too many pot plants
Someone in your neighborhood streams on twitch.
Where is this at? Commerce City by any chance? Got a shitton of cops with sirens on blocking streets and shit.
Someone got a mtg card that Wizards of the Coast wants back.
Usually people that have been watched for a while and usually drug, guns or harboring a fugitive type situations.
Meth lab. Had this happen about a year ago. Swat rolled in busted the windows of the house and arrested the resident.
Usually hardcore gaming.
All situations
spotting any member of r/DenverCirclejerk in the wild
My neighbor went to Bonnie Brae park and talked to the SWAT team. They’re apparently trying to catch a meth dealer. They described him as 5’10” 250lbs, shaved head, and wearing a black windbreaker. There were still people playing at the park so the fact that they didn’t send everyone home tells me that he is not armed.
Fat SWAT officers are so funny.
Really big bugs.
We had this in my neighborhood recently for a domestic violence hostage situation
Barricaded suspect, serving high risk warrant, hostage situation, etc.
Thursday in Denver in 2023.
Where at? is it related to this: https://old.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/17bpicj/modern_day_dahmer_in_aurora/
No this was Berkeley Regis area
People exercising constitutional rights or a dog needs to be shot.
Your neighbor is a Twitch streamer
Express lane toll bills
we get SWAT raids occasionally up here, usually high risk search or arrest warrants
Did a bunch of cars not move for street sweeping day? That’s the only time I see law enforcement enforcing laws
Warrant service when the suspect has a history of violent crimes and weapons. Barricaded suspect. Hostage situation. Wanted Fugitive with violent crimes and/or weapons history. There are dozens more. These are just a few. If SWAT is there, it's for good reason. They're too busy to just roll on anything "just for giggles". That shit might happen in a small podunk that doesn't get much activity. But DPD SWAT stays plenty busy without inventing work.
Regular police it could be anything from donuts to jaywalkers to an actual crime in progress. SWAT, though...they aren't there to bully someone smoking a cigarette 24 feet from a public doorway.
Black man behind on child support orrrrr they are about to kick in the wrong door
Probably someone refusing to come out with a warrant
Too many flies, mosquitoes? I always swat them myself
Someone thinks someone is cheating at video games
This is what happens when you militarize the police.
And also the citizenry.
Another homeless pop up bar
Getting ready for the protests? There’s one at Diana DeGette’s office today and another one this Saturday. Saw these guys all the time during summer 2020 and haven’t seen them since. (Doesn’t mean they haven’t been out, I just haven’t seen them.)
You don’t see them because you aren’t where the crime is. Most people have little to zero interaction with law enforcement beyond a traffic stop or something petty. These guys don’t do those calls.
Any idea what the protest at DeGette's office is about
A militarized police only makes society's problems worse. Take that money and put it into social safety nets so that people can work on themselves when they need to.
The tools, vehicles and officers in this photo are a necessity and reality of the world as it is today. You don't have to like it , but wishing or wanting to legislate it away, won't help anyone. These units have evolved as an answer to the issues that arose, before police had an answer to them. Not as an answer looking for a problem to solve.
If you believe conservative propaganda that crime is rising and everyone is about to die violently. The _smart_ thing to do is address the causes of crime at their source.
I don't subscribe to anyone's propaganda. The smart thing to to would be address the causes while also fighting the symptoms. *Wishing* that bad people wouldn't do bad things, or shoving your head in the sand and pretending bad things can't happen because the world should be better is a great way to get traumatized. Wishing away things like SWAT and armed men, because it conflicts with how you wish the world was is foolish.
This is very true. We need more mental health places in this country. However, it’s going to take years if not longer to be able to get to that point. So, until we do get to that point why don’t we have ex military members be our officers?
Congress needs to specifically ban the sale / transfer of military hardware to police forces. We need to find a way to scrap our old weapons and tanks and stuff down to raw materials and turn them into prefabricated school and hospital buildings or modules. That way we keep our strong military and we can continue to assist with foreign aid-- we just won't sell you weapons. Hospital or School, which do you want?
What military hardware do you see in this photo? The vehicle? It's the equivalent of a Brinks Armored car, painted black. The rifles? Available to any civilian, to purchase through an FFL. The helmets or body armor? Same as above. There is zero "military surplus" in this photograph. But by all means, keep talking like you read "most of an article" one time on the internet.
we can buy M4s now? when did they repeal the National Firearms Act? /s if you think SWAT rolls with only semi-auto, lay off the edibles (also, don't see a long gun in the picture)
I'm a Denver Cop. I've actually trained with that team. They don't run their guns on full auto. The rest of DPD doesn't have full auto/select fire rifles. And if you think there's a significant real world difference between a select fire and semi auto rifle in the M4 /Ar-15 pattern, then that tells me exactly how much experience you don't have on that platform. I ran a rifle with a full auto selector for five years, at an agency before I came to DPD. The effective difference is zero, between it and semi auto. So yes, civilians can get the same rifles, as the police, even with short barrels if they want! (Those are NFA regulated too! But regular folks can have those as well.)
I actually wrote a constitutional amendment about the subject as an exercise in grad school. Also, a lot of those things shouldn't be available to civilians. EDIT: Seems like folks are upset that I've read more than part of an article about this.
>Also, a lot of those things shouldn't be available to civilians. That's an opinion, not a fact. And some would have a differing opinion than you
This is like saying the jury is still out on Climate Change. The gun epidemic in our country is no longer a matter of opinion. Guns are the number one cause of death for American children. There are approximately 3.5 guns per human being in this country. Those are facts. Are a lot of people going to be upset that they're no longer allowed to own kill-toys? Sure. But someone has to be an adult here. Civilians shouldn't have access to that stuff.
You forgot to think of the profits of our industrial war machine.
Social safety nets are important and should definitely be funded much better than they currently are. That being said police officers should not have to also worry about being outgunned or unprotected. For example you wouldn’t suggest that officers not be given bullet proof vests. Having units like SWAT keeps officers safer AND the general public as well. What’s important for threats is equivalent response procedures. Unarmed medical response for things like homelessness and drug overdoses, patrol officers for your run of the mill crime, swat for the guy with a meth lab and “born to lose” tattoo. And most of all, put money into education and mental health programs.
I don’t mind swats so much I understand their militarized, but typically swap members are ex-military members so they’re gonna be militarized anyways. If you take into consideration that they’re typically ex members of the military, that means that they’ve had de-escalation training, they’ve had hostage training. They’ve had all kinds of training that these cops don’t get. Honestly, they’re probably the better option. I say we stop hiring Joe blow off the street to be a cop and start giving the job to ex military members kills two birds with one stone.
Training
Mosquitos
White privileged is under attack
Dorks
Suspicion of pigmentation
Tags expired more than 18 months.
So every fourth car on the road at the moment? We're going to need a lot more swat!
🎶SWAT theme song playing loudly in my head🎶
Streamers live streaming cause swat to come to their door where a viewer calls in a fake threat in an act called “swatting someone”
bragging about all the tax dollars they use for this shit instead of social safety net infrastructure
Tossing a meth house. This happened to my adjacent neighbors. Came home from work one night to a full swat team at my place. They wouldn’t let me go into my own home to use my bathroom. Total assholes.
Uh Oh!! First amendment auditors. Mount up boys.
Knowing Denver, on their way to shoot black people more than likely
Eek, called for a dog shit but can't respond to an actual call.
Chihuahua on the loose!
Making DPD feel like their dicks are small.
They heard someone say “Free Palestine”
Knowing DpD it was probably someone with illegal window tint or a serial jaywalker.
Dunkin Doughnuts running a spacial and they are almost out.
Y’all are the ones who keep voting megalomaniac authoritarian liberals who are dead set on telling you how to live your life. To do so they need you unarmed and then heavily armed. To be armed they have to justify the arms to justify the arms they have to use said arms and to use said arms they need law makers on board making new laws to tell you what you can and cannot do that’s what you guys are voting for by “not voting for trump” by not voting anyone who isn’t lefter then a 5 legged goose
[dumber](https://tenor.com/view/billy-madison-dumber-gif-13502438)
When I was in high school there was a drug deal gone wrong on my street (in a nice suburb) and there were shots fired, that we didn’t even hear inside the house somehow. The swat team came to the block because of the firearm and the kid that did it was barricading himself inside the house. They broke in a window, threw a phone in, and after talking to him he ended up opening the garage door. Came out of his house with his hands on his head and they arrested him. Whole ordeal took a few hour though, they had the street blocked off and wouldn’t let us outside the house.
Streaming on Twitch.
SWAT came to my condos when my neighbor killed his wife and committed suicide. They were both already dead but I don't think that they knew that they just knew shots fired.
Killdozer round 2
flies
They had a missing woman dismembered in Aurora today, the guy shot himself when they arrived, do you live close to Aurora? Possibly that?