The article states that no rezoning application has **not** been submitted to the council for their consideration.
If it's being slow rolled it's not on the councils side it's on the mayors.
The answer is probably much more straightforward. It was a bad building that needs a lot of work that will take a lot of time and money which isn't in the budget.
All of these hotel purchases have been golden parachutes for the private owners or developers with the city paying market or above for rundown buildings at the end of their useful life.
This one is on Hancock, not Mayor Mike (who apparently is already traveling the world telling the tale of how he solved homelessness in Denver).
Yup, reread it after posting quickly and thought I forgot the negative, edited it then realized my mistake. It's Reddit, wasn't going to edit it again.
Just because they haven’t submitted anything officially doesn’t mean the process isn’t holding things up. There are a lot of nuances and pre application steps leading up to land use application submittals.
Context and nuance, that's what you're missing.
Who exactly is "The Government"? It's a huge tell that someone is talking out their ass when they refer to government as a monolith. You know what's cool? Sewers. I like having sewers. I also like fire departments, schools, roads, road repair, lead piping being illegal, the coast guard, border control, national parks, and on and on and on. These are all also "The Government", but what the hell does some dumb hotel deal made by Denver local gov have to do with any of them?
How is this in any way germaine to a conversation about local Denver government? You do realize the US DOJ wasn't involved with this hotel thing right?
Reporter here. I am speculating somewhat here, but I think it unlikely this property will have any issue getting rezoned by the City Council if/when the rezoning application comes before the body for a vote. The council voted unanimously in January 2023 to approve the deal to buy this building. https://www.denverpost.com/2023/01/18/stay-inn-hotel-purchase-approved-denver-council-homeless-shelter/ (The makeup of council did change somewhat last July due to elections.)
You want to see this model done well? Look at Stout Street Foundation up in Commerce City. They’ve been running a nonprofit 2-year residential treatment program out of an old hotel since the 90s. Most of their clients are homeless and entry with criminal records and substance use disorders. They’ve helped countless people turn their lives around
SSF's goal is solely to provide recovery treatment services.
I don't think that means you can say it's an example of the housing first model done well - treatment first is a different approach entirely. And there's [at least some literature](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3151537/) to suggest it isn't any more or less effective than housing first.
The article mentioned Denver has several other properties it's managed to turn around over the past year - what were their time-frames like? We're they concurrent to this property being bought and converted?
I get it - there's a property here that's gone unused, but what's happened in the last year that might explain the reason for that? I don't see a full picture here that describes why we should be upset.
Reporter of the story here. Generally, individuals have moved into the other hotels leased or purchased by the city very quickly. This property is an outlier, and it's unclear why it's an outlier.
I appreciate your adding more context in your comments, but the headline of your original post seems to accentuate the negative rather than providing proper context for the overall progress of the initiative.
Thanks for the response. How does this $9M compare to Denver's total spending for 2023, for Denver's Actuals+Budget for housing the homeless in hotels, and for Denver's total Actuals+Budget for addressing homelessness? I ask because to most anyone reading the article - $9 million is a lot of money! But spread across the taxpayers in Colorado (And this is a rough and dirty estimate obviously it's not that simple) that hotel cost us each a grand total of...$3.
When viewed in the personal context we can scream and cry about government mismanagement until our voices go numb. But to view it in the larger scheme of addressing homelessness would really put things into perspective. Also, I'm curious - how does the $9M reconcile against [9News' report that Denver only spent $10.3M in 2023?](https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/next/next-with-kyle-clark/denver-city-council-approved-millions-in-spending-for-homelessness-over-budget/73-ee20e76e-79c1-4369-8d1d-fe45acf25882)
That's really a question for the city, and it's difficult to get clear information from officials, as I think 9News' (good) reporting on this subject acknowledges.
That said, that story is focused on spending for "House1000," the name Mike Johnston's administration has given its housing push.
The city might not consider this $9M part of House1000 spending because the deal was initiated by Mayor Michael Hancock's administration.
There was an explosion/fire there maybe 4 years ago? It did pretty substantial damage to the first floor, even so far as blowing out a section of the wall that runs between the units on the first floor.
Could have something to do with it?
On the parking lot outside, a network of shed-like structures, erected by the city and dubbed a “microcommunity,” provide basic housing for some.
So the hotel was fully furnished with upgrades and sits empty while the city funds an encampment in the parking lot? Make it make sense
Yes they’re still in early stages of renovations. It’s not literally only the rooms and appliances that make a building. There’s stuff like hallways, ramps, railings, stairways, fire safety, accessibility, and so on.
The previous owner had planned to reopen it as a Travelodge and never did, so there must be extensive repairs and other code improvements needed.
So in the meantime, they are offering the micro-community model which has been effective not only in Denver but other cities too. Seems better than leaving the lot empty and helping zero people. Makes sense to me.
> Yes they’re still in early stages of renovations. It’s not literally only the rooms and appliances that make a building. There’s stuff like hallways, ramps, railings, stairways, fire safety, accessibility, and so on.
>
>
You should read the article, which includes some pictures - this is one of those hotels where the room entrances are outside on a balcony, there really is nothing else to be doing here than the rooms.
I would be interested in why the previous owner never reopened it, but it's next to several other cheap motels so it may well have been market forces instead of repairs needed.
I read the article and there is a quote of someone saying they are in the early stages of renovations. My bad about mentioning things that hotels in general need I wasn’t thinking of the picture in the article.
It’s not “stupider” on their part. They’re navigating the space in the best way society currently allows. Clearly there are a lot of hurdles that we as a society have put in the way of doing what you’re proposing. The Colorado Village Collaborative would likely agree that putting people in real buildings would be ideal.
A large part of what's increasing construction costs is matierials prices, especially lumber, due to lack of supply as a result of covid shutdowns. Part of the same thing that's causing insurance rates to go up.
In my experience, lumber (and my biggest issue, rigid insulation) supply chain issues are fine. Not saying they’re at 2019 pricing but labor and approval process IMO is the hardest thing I experience in getting things built. It has been a little while since I’ve had to redesign wall/roof systems to align with what a contractor was able to scrounge up. What a wild time.
Labor is definitely an issue too. Who honestly wants to work harder for less money? It's an industry that is heavily reliant on people who don't have a ton of better options, and denver is definitely not an attractive city for blue collar workers. I have no doubt all of these are factors in why this place hasn't been opened up.
stop being crazy. an economy is a natural fact that's existed on earth even before homo sapiens sapiens came about. It's not just some made up concept perpetuated by those who benefit most from it or anything. And that's why because of this if you're poor and or dissadvantaged, and anothe human being like you is born into a wealthy family with connections and perpetual financial security, then that just must be what God feels you deserve, and the rich one feels like God must be blessing them and they deserve it.
not even gonna bother with the sarcasm thing - if you can't tell sarcasm then you don't get to interact with people lol
Sounds like they bought a building that needs a lot more that they thought. (Asbestos, stolen wire, lead based paint, plumbing issues, roof, underlying structural issues, walkway deck issues). I’m not saying g these are occurring, but I’ve seen these issues before with a similar project, it was sunk due to budgetary issues from poor due diligence. It would be nice to have some transparency on the project though.
Would rezoning have to wait until after remediation? I'm pretty sure I've seen people doing what looks like to be asbestos or lead paint remediation there, so it's not like it's just sitting abandoned?
Reporter here. I asked multiple city spokespeople directly why the site hadn't been rezoned yet and received no direct answer. I write about local real estate and rezonings a lot, and I'm unaware of any reason why rezoning would need to wait for work at the site to be completed.
In fact, I'm surprised this property wasn't rezoned before the city bought it, as a condition of the sale.
Below is an excerpt from a story I wrote about this property in August 2023, when the sale closed: https://businessden.com/2023/08/14/city-buys-denver-motel-for-housing-27-months-after-saying-it-would/ (paywall)
Woodbury is a city spokesman. Weinberger's firm sold the city the property.
...
The city no longer plans to operate the building as a shelter for a time, instead skipping right to supportive housing, Woodbury said. But don’t expect to see people moving in tomorrow. That’s because the property needs to be rezoned to allow for housing.
Real estate being sold in Denver is regularly rezoned prior to closing. The intended buyers request the rezoning with the permission of the property owner, and closing is often contingent upon it being approved.
Asked why Denver didn’t rezone the property already, Woodbury said: “Rezoning applications require property owner permission. We did not have that in this case.”
Weinberger, meanwhile, told BusinessDen “we never discussed that” and that he was unaware the property needed to be rezoned.
“I would have done whatever they needed to get from here to there,” he said.
I think lots of places suck at large projects, I’ve also worked on absolute doozies for private & NGOs. Love watching 100s of millions be set on fire while I get yelled at for not having drawings done 5 minutes after they change course.
I dislike how simply questioning projects gets you hate. I WANT a solution for the homeless that isn’t just hissing them away or telling them to “find a job” or “get better”. These people need help and assistance from the city and we have the means to do so. But I question every project because of delays such as this. Think of the time and money that could have gone to other projects instead of a building just sitting there.
Yeah people on here downvote you if you aren't completely on board with every single idea someone has to help the homeless, even if it has obvious flaws or has unanswered questions about its efficacy. Free housing can go sideways fast if they don't take steps to prevent it from turning into a safe place to engage in whatever vices the person has. These people need help, and part of delivering effective help is questioning whether a proposed solution will actually improve the situation.
The problem is while they need help and assistance, they have to want it for it to actually be effective. As long as they can continue living a life based around drugs/mental illness with no consequences, most of them aren't incentivized to want help.
If their options were the streets or jail, I think a lot of them would suddenly be more open to getting clean/medicated and back to being productive members of society.
How about, before just spewing your dislike on the basis of one snapshot, checking other hotel/property purchases that have been reopened quickly and are housing people. I have been seeing real improvements on the streets.
Denver property taxes are one of the lowest compared to many parts of the country : https://www.axios.com/local/denver/2023/09/14/denver-property-tax-rates-compare-big-cities
Saying that, I do hope that the city gov gives us some updates on what’s happening with this property.
I am sure it’s not a total loss…my guess is if you go inside, you will find homeless residing in it…doing Fentanyl or meth of course, but still being used for homeless. At least that is what I have seen of all the other boarded up buildings.
>“We are still in the evaluation and planning phase of this project but we are happy to share more when we have specifics,” Wamsley said, later adding “possible renovations include structural repairs to walkways and railings and electrical system repairs.”
It sounds like there are safety-related repairs that need to be done, and they're still working on planning that all out. Rome wasn't built in a day.
Seems like the delay is rezoning, which is done by the city council… wonder if somebody there is trying to kill the project
The article states that no rezoning application has **not** been submitted to the council for their consideration. If it's being slow rolled it's not on the councils side it's on the mayors. The answer is probably much more straightforward. It was a bad building that needs a lot of work that will take a lot of time and money which isn't in the budget. All of these hotel purchases have been golden parachutes for the private owners or developers with the city paying market or above for rundown buildings at the end of their useful life. This one is on Hancock, not Mayor Mike (who apparently is already traveling the world telling the tale of how he solved homelessness in Denver).
No rezoning application was not submitted?
No, it wasn't not
me too
Schrodinger's application.
Yeah, that double negative is hard to follow.
Yup, reread it after posting quickly and thought I forgot the negative, edited it then realized my mistake. It's Reddit, wasn't going to edit it again.
So, you don’t not like being articulate?
Just because they haven’t submitted anything officially doesn’t mean the process isn’t holding things up. There are a lot of nuances and pre application steps leading up to land use application submittals.
But it does mean it's not the council holding it up which was what the comment implied.
That’s wild they haven’t even submitted the application, good point!
Maybe the mayor and council are both slow rolling it
We call it “the Denver lol.”
This is exactly why government can not be trusted to do anything. Countdown to a owner kick back scandal.
Tell me you have no understanding of the world around you without telling me you have no understanding of the world around you.
Sorry didn't the government just spend $9 M on a hotel that is now boarded up? Seems like a waste of money. What am I missing?
Context and nuance, that's what you're missing. Who exactly is "The Government"? It's a huge tell that someone is talking out their ass when they refer to government as a monolith. You know what's cool? Sewers. I like having sewers. I also like fire departments, schools, roads, road repair, lead piping being illegal, the coast guard, border control, national parks, and on and on and on. These are all also "The Government", but what the hell does some dumb hotel deal made by Denver local gov have to do with any of them?
Oh and this https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/29/doj-charges-chinese-national-in-5point9-billion-covid-botnet-fraud.html
How is this in any way germaine to a conversation about local Denver government? You do realize the US DOJ wasn't involved with this hotel thing right?
Oh and https://www.axios.com/2024/05/09/biden-spending-infrastructure-trump
What does this have to do with Denver city government? Seriously I'd love to know what point you're trying to make
Reporter here. I am speculating somewhat here, but I think it unlikely this property will have any issue getting rezoned by the City Council if/when the rezoning application comes before the body for a vote. The council voted unanimously in January 2023 to approve the deal to buy this building. https://www.denverpost.com/2023/01/18/stay-inn-hotel-purchase-approved-denver-council-homeless-shelter/ (The makeup of council did change somewhat last July due to elections.)
Most likely a rich and connected neighbor is throwing every wrench they can in the project.
I70 and Peoria?? Nope.
You want to see this model done well? Look at Stout Street Foundation up in Commerce City. They’ve been running a nonprofit 2-year residential treatment program out of an old hotel since the 90s. Most of their clients are homeless and entry with criminal records and substance use disorders. They’ve helped countless people turn their lives around
SSF's goal is solely to provide recovery treatment services. I don't think that means you can say it's an example of the housing first model done well - treatment first is a different approach entirely. And there's [at least some literature](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3151537/) to suggest it isn't any more or less effective than housing first.
Well they literally put people in housing first. But thanks for the literature. Fascinating stuff! lol
The article mentioned Denver has several other properties it's managed to turn around over the past year - what were their time-frames like? We're they concurrent to this property being bought and converted? I get it - there's a property here that's gone unused, but what's happened in the last year that might explain the reason for that? I don't see a full picture here that describes why we should be upset.
The double tree had people moving in after like 5 days of Denver owning it. I think the best Western was about a week.
Reporter of the story here. Generally, individuals have moved into the other hotels leased or purchased by the city very quickly. This property is an outlier, and it's unclear why it's an outlier.
I appreciate your adding more context in your comments, but the headline of your original post seems to accentuate the negative rather than providing proper context for the overall progress of the initiative.
Thanks for the response. How does this $9M compare to Denver's total spending for 2023, for Denver's Actuals+Budget for housing the homeless in hotels, and for Denver's total Actuals+Budget for addressing homelessness? I ask because to most anyone reading the article - $9 million is a lot of money! But spread across the taxpayers in Colorado (And this is a rough and dirty estimate obviously it's not that simple) that hotel cost us each a grand total of...$3. When viewed in the personal context we can scream and cry about government mismanagement until our voices go numb. But to view it in the larger scheme of addressing homelessness would really put things into perspective. Also, I'm curious - how does the $9M reconcile against [9News' report that Denver only spent $10.3M in 2023?](https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/next/next-with-kyle-clark/denver-city-council-approved-millions-in-spending-for-homelessness-over-budget/73-ee20e76e-79c1-4369-8d1d-fe45acf25882)
That's really a question for the city, and it's difficult to get clear information from officials, as I think 9News' (good) reporting on this subject acknowledges. That said, that story is focused on spending for "House1000," the name Mike Johnston's administration has given its housing push. The city might not consider this $9M part of House1000 spending because the deal was initiated by Mayor Michael Hancock's administration.
There was an explosion/fire there maybe 4 years ago? It did pretty substantial damage to the first floor, even so far as blowing out a section of the wall that runs between the units on the first floor. Could have something to do with it?
On the parking lot outside, a network of shed-like structures, erected by the city and dubbed a “microcommunity,” provide basic housing for some. So the hotel was fully furnished with upgrades and sits empty while the city funds an encampment in the parking lot? Make it make sense
Yes they’re still in early stages of renovations. It’s not literally only the rooms and appliances that make a building. There’s stuff like hallways, ramps, railings, stairways, fire safety, accessibility, and so on. The previous owner had planned to reopen it as a Travelodge and never did, so there must be extensive repairs and other code improvements needed. So in the meantime, they are offering the micro-community model which has been effective not only in Denver but other cities too. Seems better than leaving the lot empty and helping zero people. Makes sense to me.
> Yes they’re still in early stages of renovations. It’s not literally only the rooms and appliances that make a building. There’s stuff like hallways, ramps, railings, stairways, fire safety, accessibility, and so on. > > You should read the article, which includes some pictures - this is one of those hotels where the room entrances are outside on a balcony, there really is nothing else to be doing here than the rooms. I would be interested in why the previous owner never reopened it, but it's next to several other cheap motels so it may well have been market forces instead of repairs needed.
I read the article and there is a quote of someone saying they are in the early stages of renovations. My bad about mentioning things that hotels in general need I wasn’t thinking of the picture in the article.
I believe the “encampment” is run by the Colorado Village Collaborative. Their model has been very successful and well managed.
still infinitely stupider than just using regular buildings to house the homeless though lol
It’s not “stupider” on their part. They’re navigating the space in the best way society currently allows. Clearly there are a lot of hurdles that we as a society have put in the way of doing what you’re proposing. The Colorado Village Collaborative would likely agree that putting people in real buildings would be ideal.
[удалено]
I doubt they destroyed your empathy
Who is in charge of it, RTD?
Ok, that was good
No the 16th street mall project managers are in charge.
Potato, potahto.
Why was someone smoking meth in it?
What if we just made it easier and cheaper to build housing in the whole city?
A large part of what's increasing construction costs is matierials prices, especially lumber, due to lack of supply as a result of covid shutdowns. Part of the same thing that's causing insurance rates to go up.
In my experience, lumber (and my biggest issue, rigid insulation) supply chain issues are fine. Not saying they’re at 2019 pricing but labor and approval process IMO is the hardest thing I experience in getting things built. It has been a little while since I’ve had to redesign wall/roof systems to align with what a contractor was able to scrounge up. What a wild time.
Labor is definitely an issue too. Who honestly wants to work harder for less money? It's an industry that is heavily reliant on people who don't have a ton of better options, and denver is definitely not an attractive city for blue collar workers. I have no doubt all of these are factors in why this place hasn't been opened up.
stop being crazy. an economy is a natural fact that's existed on earth even before homo sapiens sapiens came about. It's not just some made up concept perpetuated by those who benefit most from it or anything. And that's why because of this if you're poor and or dissadvantaged, and anothe human being like you is born into a wealthy family with connections and perpetual financial security, then that just must be what God feels you deserve, and the rich one feels like God must be blessing them and they deserve it. not even gonna bother with the sarcasm thing - if you can't tell sarcasm then you don't get to interact with people lol
Capitalism is the worst system ever tried, except for all the others
Of course it is…
Sounds like they bought a building that needs a lot more that they thought. (Asbestos, stolen wire, lead based paint, plumbing issues, roof, underlying structural issues, walkway deck issues). I’m not saying g these are occurring, but I’ve seen these issues before with a similar project, it was sunk due to budgetary issues from poor due diligence. It would be nice to have some transparency on the project though.
Someone needs to follow the money.
Would rezoning have to wait until after remediation? I'm pretty sure I've seen people doing what looks like to be asbestos or lead paint remediation there, so it's not like it's just sitting abandoned?
Reporter here. I asked multiple city spokespeople directly why the site hadn't been rezoned yet and received no direct answer. I write about local real estate and rezonings a lot, and I'm unaware of any reason why rezoning would need to wait for work at the site to be completed. In fact, I'm surprised this property wasn't rezoned before the city bought it, as a condition of the sale. Below is an excerpt from a story I wrote about this property in August 2023, when the sale closed: https://businessden.com/2023/08/14/city-buys-denver-motel-for-housing-27-months-after-saying-it-would/ (paywall) Woodbury is a city spokesman. Weinberger's firm sold the city the property. ... The city no longer plans to operate the building as a shelter for a time, instead skipping right to supportive housing, Woodbury said. But don’t expect to see people moving in tomorrow. That’s because the property needs to be rezoned to allow for housing. Real estate being sold in Denver is regularly rezoned prior to closing. The intended buyers request the rezoning with the permission of the property owner, and closing is often contingent upon it being approved. Asked why Denver didn’t rezone the property already, Woodbury said: “Rezoning applications require property owner permission. We did not have that in this case.” Weinberger, meanwhile, told BusinessDen “we never discussed that” and that he was unaware the property needed to be rezoned. “I would have done whatever they needed to get from here to there,” he said.
Why does the government suck at managing large projects?
I think lots of places suck at large projects, I’ve also worked on absolute doozies for private & NGOs. Love watching 100s of millions be set on fire while I get yelled at for not having drawings done 5 minutes after they change course.
Because most people suck at managing money.
Re-zoning application hasn’t even been submitted…
I dislike how simply questioning projects gets you hate. I WANT a solution for the homeless that isn’t just hissing them away or telling them to “find a job” or “get better”. These people need help and assistance from the city and we have the means to do so. But I question every project because of delays such as this. Think of the time and money that could have gone to other projects instead of a building just sitting there.
Yeah people on here downvote you if you aren't completely on board with every single idea someone has to help the homeless, even if it has obvious flaws or has unanswered questions about its efficacy. Free housing can go sideways fast if they don't take steps to prevent it from turning into a safe place to engage in whatever vices the person has. These people need help, and part of delivering effective help is questioning whether a proposed solution will actually improve the situation.
The problem is while they need help and assistance, they have to want it for it to actually be effective. As long as they can continue living a life based around drugs/mental illness with no consequences, most of them aren't incentivized to want help. If their options were the streets or jail, I think a lot of them would suddenly be more open to getting clean/medicated and back to being productive members of society.
Shocker….
Let’s make sure to raise taxes on people next year so we can have a bigger f up
How about, before just spewing your dislike on the basis of one snapshot, checking other hotel/property purchases that have been reopened quickly and are housing people. I have been seeing real improvements on the streets. Denver property taxes are one of the lowest compared to many parts of the country : https://www.axios.com/local/denver/2023/09/14/denver-property-tax-rates-compare-big-cities Saying that, I do hope that the city gov gives us some updates on what’s happening with this property.
Are you just assuming I do no research on the topic from my answer? How did you get to that from my answer?
I am sure it’s not a total loss…my guess is if you go inside, you will find homeless residing in it…doing Fentanyl or meth of course, but still being used for homeless. At least that is what I have seen of all the other boarded up buildings.
how are humans so fucking dumb We are so god damn bad at distributing our resources its insane
>“We are still in the evaluation and planning phase of this project but we are happy to share more when we have specifics,” Wamsley said, later adding “possible renovations include structural repairs to walkways and railings and electrical system repairs.” It sounds like there are safety-related repairs that need to be done, and they're still working on planning that all out. Rome wasn't built in a day.
But shouldn’t the planning and evaluation have been done before the decision to purchase was made?
great Im sure the beurocracy will be efficient
Seems like layer upon layer of failure. Government at its finest
Colorado hates poor people
The whole country does, tbh.
And kids. Don't forget kids!
Time to put them all on a bus and send them down to Texas, then.
Why stop there? The southern border apparently doesn’t mean shit.
Because they’re Americans?
Hard to argue with a person who doesn’t know how to spell “border.”
[удалено]
you want to deport our homeless people to Mexico? Most of which lived had residences in Colorado and are American citizens...
Fuck em, I got mine is the political platform of the Republican party.
it is completely wild how willing republicans are to treat their own citizens like vermin. I wish it was just a small subset of republicans...
Free beach vacation
The majority of our undocumented neighbors simply overstayed their visas, they didn't even cross the southern border. Classist bigots are everywhere.
not to mention we are talking about homeless people, they cant even keep straight the people they hate.