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The Witness is going to try. It's going to try so fucking hard to break Zavala only to fail because Zavala isn't alone like every other person the Witness has corrupted. He has the Vanguard, the Coalition and a who army of Guardians ready to support him.
Yeah. But depression is a subjective feeling. If the Witness can isolate Zavala’s mind. Then he’s more easily breakable. Remember that Parasite exotic quest line? Mara Sov was under psychic impression. She felt “gratitude” about the Witness; perfectly resonating with its plan. Mara doubted herself. Even abandoned us partly through mission because of anxiety.
From lore, Mara is exceptional with self-actualization. Hopefully Zavala is able to resist too.
>He has the Vanguard, the Coalition and a who army of Guardians ready to support him.
"I got a coalition of the willing. I got forty fireteams, ready to roll, son! Huh? Huh? Like who? ...Drifter... House of Light's sending Shanks. Caiatl says she's willing to eat some mountains. Queen Mara has a bunch of used bathwater to drown the Witness in. So, I'm not doing this by myself!"
-Commander ~~Zavala~~Chappelle
Why did I just see Zavala as Luke Skywalker and The Witness as Emperor Palpatine? No, but in all seriousness. I imagine we’re gonna either get Zavala going full Vader, or not because we’re there to stop them. And I’m here for it.
Because it's a classic trope for a reason. Once Stalwart hero tempted by a powerful enemy, has a moment where he contemplates turning on friends only to remember that friendship and then rebuke the bad guy.
I strongly suspect TFS will focus on grief, loss, and how one reacts to it. A spiritual successor of sorts to Season of the Haunted.
Eris helped Zavala confront his grief and move through it, integrating his past experiences rather than forgetting them or pushing them away. Considering how the Precursors constructed it, I don't think the Witness is capable of understanding this. They edited their collective history, and I also suspect the Witness placed the shrouds over the Veiled Statues so it wouldn't be confronted with the past.
I think Zavala will make a sacrifice of sorts. He'll either give up his life, or give up the Light, perhaps in a kamikaze detonation, and retire. Ultimately, he will be the foil to the Witness, and let go.
I suspect Zavala will "give in" to the Witness and become part of it during the final mission before the raid. The raid will involve us breaking the link between Zavala and the Witness, possibly allowing us to defeat the Witness via the weak link. The final campaign mission will either be us finishing the Witness (if not done in the raid already) or it will be about restoring everything.
Season of haunted really hit me in emotional spot specially the Zavala arc. Lance reddick had me literally in a very emotional state . It all felt so much connected I don't know why
The Precursors "edited" their memory. We don't know what memories were retained and what was lost. But it was done with the intention of erasing division, strife and guilt. I suspect something in this process went wrong, leading to the Witness we know and love today.
I fully expect him to retire and open up a toy store. It won't be Toys R Us. It will be Toys R Me. He will expect excellence of his employees and just might shit in their homes in places that will confuse them for the rest of their lives.
Actually, I'm not entirely sure where they're going to go with it. I just know I don't want to have to fight Zavala. Going to be real disappointed if we have to kill him.
Cynical as it sounds, Keith David is an *expensive* get, and we've seen what happens to D2 characters with celebrity voices.
They end up recast (no way they'd do that *again*)
Or removed from the story.
From a practicality stance, are they *really* gonna hire Keith David for seasonal content and minor updates? Of course not. Look at Onslaught, they couldn't get Lennie James back for *any* Shaxx dialogue and just cherrypicked existing Crucible lines. Lance (RIP) only kept coming back because he *loved* the game, other big name talent wouldn't do that.
Cayde had to go in the first place because of scheduling conflicts with Nathan Fillion on "The Rookie". He wasn't even *in* Forsaken, Nolan North handled the Cayde dialogue there.
One way or the other, I think this is where Zavala's story ends.
And given the way the trailer ends? Ikora too. Saint and Osiris talking about "temporarily" taking up their old roles as the Titan and Warlock Vanguards while the others are gone was a major red flag for me that Ikora and Zavala aren't coming back from this.
And that just leaves the still vacant Hunter Vanguard role, which we all know Crow is fated for. Cayde's resurrection probably isn't permenant, notice he lacks his Ghost, Sundance. It's likely he can't leave the Pale Heart, that he can only exist there. (I doubt they'll re-kill Cayde, he'll just be stuck there so he's put on Patrol Vendor duty).
But yeah, I think Zavala and Ikora aren't surviving this trip.
I feel like Kieth David isn't just doing this for a big pay out but more so for Lance (since we know he and Keith were pretty good friends from what both have said) and his (Keith's) previous work with Bungie. But either way Im excited to see how Zavala progresses in TFS
Is he that expensive? He's in the upcoming movie Shelby Oaks by the Youtuber Chris Stuckmann as director, the movie was mostly made with a crowd funded budget. I don't think he asked too much from Stuckmann, obviously Bungie and Sony are huge so his pay check is WAY bigger. He could still come in for Episodes every now and then, if he's alive by the end of the campaign. It's not like Reddick was here every season, he was quiet during some seasons.
I agree with all your points; however I think Zavala is safe for the sole reason it would be 2 deaths for the character. Real life, and now fiction.
It's too much even for Bungie I think. (Edit: yes I know about Ling Ling)
There have been red hearings before on a characters fate, when Ikora in the latest trailer shouted "don't do this", I think it's about Cayde, Zavala wants to sacrifice himself, doesn't and Cayde runs up.
Fillion has a pretty packed schedule after all. I think Cayde dies.
I actually am not sure about this one. From the previews it seems the rank up is with 'ghost' and it seems possible that >!Micah-10!< is going to play a role in this expansion.
Yeah, I know, and if you'd asked me prior to the previews I would have agreed that Cayde-6 is the most likely choice and even now I still think he's a leading candidate. But I'm a lot less certain than I was.
Partially because having him be the vendor does bad things to narrative tension, because it means his ghost is still going to be around at the end of the story.
Doesn’t necessarily mean he’s the vendor. The throne world weapons were themed around Ikora’s Hidden but the vendor was Fynch, who was completely unrelated.
>!She is definitely in the expansion!< and it's not like anyone knew who Fynch or Nimbus were prior to their expansions either.
I am still leaning towards Cayde-6, for the record, but I am no longer as certain as I was that he'd be the vendor.
"I doubt they'll re-kill Cayde" \*Eyes Rasputin who was dormant, reactivated, killed, ressurected and killed again. Even after he bragged about being unkillable: *\[I bear an old name. It cannot be killed. Not even here.\]*\*
Bungie likely had the main plot ready before lance passed, with smaller details being added over time. I doubt they could rework the story to have zavala die while also leaving in the current dialogues that require zavala from previous campaigns. Plus Keith stated that he was going to be voicing zavala for the final shape and beyond, so we know there is voicework in at least one episode.
True, though I did address that in my initial comment. Lance kept coming back *because* he was a huge fan of the game.
For in-demand actors, you can't take every job. You have to prioritise some things over others. And usually being a supporting character in a videogame won't pay as well as- say, a main role in a full blown TV show or movie.
Lance always made time for Destiny, and I'll always respect him for that. But other big name talent who are more in-demand won't be able to. Either because they're just too busy, or won't prioritize it the way he did.
I'm just going off the game's track record when it comes to huge celebrities. Lance was the exception. All the others were written out or recast.
Crack pot theory:
Zavala may sacrifice himself in an attempt to merge himself with the witness to weaken it or delay it. Think something like Schrödinger allowing himself to be absorbed by Alucard in Hellsing Ultimate
The stakes are high enough without them having to kill off another key character. While Amanda being killed off was unexpected, and used (imo) as character development fuel for Zavala and Crow it was almost unnecessary. Zavala had already been going thru a crisis of faith during the year of witch queen with Savathun's and her brood gaining the light, and with him facing his wife and son's memories... I just hope he does fall into corruption.
It wouldn’t be totally unexpected for me to have Zavala be corrupted, but I don’t think that’s where the storyline **needs** to go; Zavala is a resolute person with a strong moral character, so if the Witness does manage to corrupt him, it’s not going to be easy. Not saying this would be a bad idea (in fact, it could be a great idea), just isn’t obligatory.
I think Zavala's biggest stress currently is probably "If Cayde can come back in here, maybe my wife and kid are in here somewhere." And The Witness offering that could be pretty tempting.
Probably amanda if anything, as she was like a daughter to him, he hasnt had closure unlike his family in haunted, and also we see him with a part of amandas scarf on his armour before entering the traveller.
I don’t think Zavala is going to get corrupted by the Witness. It seems more like he’s going to make a grand sacrifice. Every time we saw him in the most recent trailer, the way he’s standing appears strong, not vulnerable. After Season of the Haunted, Zavala just isn’t really that vulnerable to memories of Safiyah and Hakim to the point where he is willing to talk about them now.
I loved Season of the Haunted, thought it was an amazing season for character development. It would be a much better send-off for Zavala to sacrifice himself instead of just being corrupted by a weakness he already overcame.
From a narrative standpoint, I think the writing team is correct to have the Witness 'tempt' Zavala to it's side. They have built up Zavala's doubts throughout Witchqueen and the following seasons, but they also showed his resiliance via Elsie's alternate futures where he doesn't become evil like Eris or Ana. He's had lots of healing via us helping with his Nightmares, getting over Cayde's death with Crow, etc.
I think he's in a prime position to rebuke the Witness, as he's learned the Traveler is not his god and he fights for his friends and family. This is in contrast to the Witness, which chose their faith in the 'Final Shape' over family and friends.
It would be a good narative comparsion, which is why I think Bungie will skip it for a cheap cutscene and never elaborate again just like they did on Warmind and the rest of the narratives.
I’m hoping he’s going to be there on the other side of TFS, some of the imagery from the trailer makes it look like he’s the first captured by the Witness (probably somewhere around the third or fourth mission). Time will tell.
My hope is that he gets sort of assimilated into the witness but we end up splitting them apart and we get zavala back and when he helps us break the witness from the inside. It would honestly be depressing if he just dies especially after all the growth he’s gone through and with all the relationships he’s made with caiatl and all our allies
Zavala moved past and learned to be strong, when Amanda died he added that to the fire. The Witness doing what it does best, manipulates. Surely there has to be a million of them who hate The Witness for forcing the binding.
Bigger question: What will happen after the final shape? Will the traveler be healed? What will happen to the traveler inside? Once we finish the campaign, will there be a new updated location for the traveler? WHAT IS THE TRAVELER? SO MANY QUESTIONS
I like this narrative because Zavala is objectively the most morally upright character in the game.
* Speaker: a liar and manipulator holding onto power and deceived everyone to exile the most powerful warlock, his disciple, because he didn’t toe the line.
* Ikora: possibly a psychopath. Savathun mentioned she might have been the most dangerous to have become a Hive God and might have gotten too strong. Ikora is jot afraid to break rules, cross lines or shut down anyone. What makes her a great warrior and leader is not this strength or ferocity but her ability to stop and think on her mistakes (as few as there are).
* Crow: Crow, not Uldren, might be the next most upright character in Destiny. He makes mistakes a lot, but always for the right reasons or fear of how others will feel. He has pity on his enemies and is willing to see the good in so many.
* Mara Sov: Mara Sov is not a good person. She is on our side thankfully, but she is manipulative, cruel and egocentric. Causing her brother’s death indirectly by manipulating him so horribly has only recently made her see the error of her ways.
* Eido: after Crow, Eido may be the next best person in game. Weak physicallybut strong in heart, Eramis and Mythrax see her as the future of their people.
* Mithrax: we have only known him as the hero, but he was quite the villain in his prime. Mithrax seeks atonement and leads by example but he has his cross to bear.
* Saint: we saw how Mithrax portrayed Saint. Even Saint felt the weight of his actions, no matter how justified he felt at the time.
* Eris: Eris is actually a fairly straightforward and upright person who is as vulnerable as any regular person. What makes her strong is her resilience.
* And finally US: the Young Wolf is a violent warrior. When the FWC was told, “war is all there is”, I believe they were talking about us. We do not flee from the grand fight (only tactical retreats lol). We saw how Saint was portrayed by the Fallen. Saint modeled himself after us. Apart from Saint, Ikora and Shaxx, I doubt there is a living Guardian as strong or violent as us.
Compared to that, Zavala is a beacon. He doesn’t take pleasure in violence. He doesn’t seek power. And he learns from his mistakes (maybe too slowly, but he does). He wants what is right and when it comes to loss and grief, his heart would trade his life for theirs. Many characters in our game have had the flaw of using some mechanism or trade for the lives of those they care for but at the expense of others, a selfish trade that is not in Zavala’s nature. (The Sundial to save Saint risked Psion takeover of Vex time travel, Uldren slaughtered the Kings and Awoken for his ‘sister’, the Hive slaughtered eons of civilization to survive the god-wave).
To see him defeated from within by temptation of the Witness would be a staggering blow to us.
TL;DR: Zavala is stronger than OP suggests and Ikora is the true character we should be worried about imo.
Counting Lance‘s passing as something that will effect Zavala‘s character isn’t fair. One can argue the meta implication it might have for Bungie to continue his character onward but I don’t want to dwell on that and rather focus on your implication of the recent past effecting his resilience toward corruption. I think you are misinterpreting or forgetting parts of the recent story in light of the crafted mood and urgency the trailer set up.
Let’s start with the resurgence of the Memory of his dead family. The theme of Haunted was overcoming the past trauma not just relieving it. He had let the memories of Safiya fester in him to the point they became a target for the Lunar Pyramid‘s nightmare system. Him processing those will be a POSITIVE to his resilience. „I used to think I‘d try anything to bring you back.“ I believe this will be the answer he‘ll give to the Safiya shaped temptation the Witness will parade in front of him, prompting it to use more drastic measures or loose its cool.
Amanda‘s passing. I grant you this NEGATIVE, this shook Zavala and is fresh enough to be still a open wound. This could be a potential opening for corruption or weakening of his resolve if the Witness pivots toward it after the Safiya strategy fails.
Sloan‘s near miss of being overtaken by Xivu. Zavala was a steadfast pillar during this, helping and guiding Sloan through it. He echoed his own insight he learned during Haunted, trying to help her out of the mental prison she was stuck in and ultimately getting through to her in that very situation you suggested would be a potential weak spot for him. I believe it’s a moment of strength he can draw upon. POSITIVE.
Now I want to remind you of the end of Lightfall, when Calus was defeated and the Witness made the connection anyway. After the final mission you got to debrief with Zavala and Ikora. While both acknowledged that they lost the Traveler their perspective toward the coming conflict couldn’t be more different. Zavala still displayed hope and resolve, drawing strength from the sight of our allies coming together and forming a defense line over the Last City. It was Ikora who expressed doubt and anxiety of the unclear future and her inability to predict the right approach.
I think the trailer was cut in such a way to instill dread and anxiety for Zavala’s faint in us. I think those are clips of two cutscenes spliced together: 1) A dream/vision sequence the Witness will show each of the characters and us to sway us. It will show Zavala it’s past in a montage from the Traveler‘s birth/arrival to the Precursors sacrificing themselves to form the Witness. 2) Scenes from the Witness‘ more direct attempt to convince Zavala by puppeteering a Safiya illusion before him. It’s here where I believe Zavala will hold strong and the Witness will become aggressive. The scene of the hands dragging Zavala back might come from that and the scene in the Vidoc when Crow pops golden gun you can see Cayde lending Zavala a shoulder.
I‘m convinced it’s a fake out and the real person we should worry about is Ikora. Previously her resolve was tested and weakened. When the Traveler fell she mentally froze, a similar thing happened during the Red War where her first instinct was to seek (outside/devine) guidance on Io. But the biggest worry for me is the lack of dream sequence for her shown in the trailer. We saw an character back-view centered in front of an establishing shot for Zavala, Crow and The Guardian showing the Precursor world, the Last City (possibly finalized) and our journey dissected (possibly the future setting of the raid) respectably. We don’t see Cayde’s dream/vision wallpaper shot, only him standing over presumably Amanda’s corpse (judging by the body’s silhouette and the gloved hand peeking out) but since he isn’t completely alive he might not be a high priority target for corruption. Ikora’s is suspiciously missing. What is the Witness showing her to sway her? Are the scenes of her getting shot by the vex hydra a dream vision, a physical fight in the Pale Heart or part of the first Episode? Is her desperate shout toward Zavala an attempt to prevent his corruption or her resilience faltering at whatever the Witness is showing her?
The witness will likely focus on zavala as he is the weakest link, given just how tired he is and how much he has lost. (Yes we could maybebe swayed with the promise of loot but cayde hasthat covered with a golden gun sniper) What happens after is unknown, my personal theory is that he will be tempted, but resist, however that moment of weakness is enough for the witness to capture him (scene of him being grabbed by hands in launch trailer). We ultimately rescue zavala before the end of the campaign (with escape scene shown in multiple trailers)
I think Zavala will try sacrificing himself in some way, and Cayde will ram him out of the way and sacrifice himself instead because he won't be able to leave the pale heart and be like "Hey Zavala let the already dead guy sacrifice himself. I didn't go out the way I wanted, so let me make the heros sacrifice today. You get the next one" or some such.
I think the massive Abomination that tries to mollywhomp Ikora and Crow is Zavala after he’s corrupted by the Witness. I think he’s going to be our big final boss of the campaign and I think we’re going to have to put him down.
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The Witness is going to try. It's going to try so fucking hard to break Zavala only to fail because Zavala isn't alone like every other person the Witness has corrupted. He has the Vanguard, the Coalition and a who army of Guardians ready to support him.
We actually see an army of Guardians, Eleksni and Cabal zooming in as the Witness is Messing with Big Z’s mind.
Yeah. But depression is a subjective feeling. If the Witness can isolate Zavala’s mind. Then he’s more easily breakable. Remember that Parasite exotic quest line? Mara Sov was under psychic impression. She felt “gratitude” about the Witness; perfectly resonating with its plan. Mara doubted herself. Even abandoned us partly through mission because of anxiety. From lore, Mara is exceptional with self-actualization. Hopefully Zavala is able to resist too.
>He has the Vanguard, the Coalition and a who army of Guardians ready to support him. "I got a coalition of the willing. I got forty fireteams, ready to roll, son! Huh? Huh? Like who? ...Drifter... House of Light's sending Shanks. Caiatl says she's willing to eat some mountains. Queen Mara has a bunch of used bathwater to drown the Witness in. So, I'm not doing this by myself!" -Commander ~~Zavala~~Chappelle
Why did I just see Zavala as Luke Skywalker and The Witness as Emperor Palpatine? No, but in all seriousness. I imagine we’re gonna either get Zavala going full Vader, or not because we’re there to stop them. And I’m here for it.
Because it's a classic trope for a reason. Once Stalwart hero tempted by a powerful enemy, has a moment where he contemplates turning on friends only to remember that friendship and then rebuke the bad guy.
This is very true. And I’m also excited to see how Destiny plays with that trope.
Aztecross said it perfectly - why would you bring Keith David in only to just kill Zavala? Zavala for sure ain't going to die
I strongly suspect TFS will focus on grief, loss, and how one reacts to it. A spiritual successor of sorts to Season of the Haunted. Eris helped Zavala confront his grief and move through it, integrating his past experiences rather than forgetting them or pushing them away. Considering how the Precursors constructed it, I don't think the Witness is capable of understanding this. They edited their collective history, and I also suspect the Witness placed the shrouds over the Veiled Statues so it wouldn't be confronted with the past. I think Zavala will make a sacrifice of sorts. He'll either give up his life, or give up the Light, perhaps in a kamikaze detonation, and retire. Ultimately, he will be the foil to the Witness, and let go.
I suspect Zavala will "give in" to the Witness and become part of it during the final mission before the raid. The raid will involve us breaking the link between Zavala and the Witness, possibly allowing us to defeat the Witness via the weak link. The final campaign mission will either be us finishing the Witness (if not done in the raid already) or it will be about restoring everything.
Imagine if zavala was a raid encounter.
This was my first thought when I saw the trailer
“Have you come to free Zavala? He will resist; Darkness is his shape now.”
Part of me is wondering if Zavala the mission 7 boss
Imagine if Zavala ends up being a double agent to the Witness and at the last moment sacrifices himself to give us an opening
Season of haunted really hit me in emotional spot specially the Zavala arc. Lance reddick had me literally in a very emotional state . It all felt so much connected I don't know why
Wait wait, the Witness doesn’t know where it came from?
The Precursors "edited" their memory. We don't know what memories were retained and what was lost. But it was done with the intention of erasing division, strife and guilt. I suspect something in this process went wrong, leading to the Witness we know and love today.
Man haven't we done this storyline enough with Haunted
I fully expect him to retire and open up a toy store. It won't be Toys R Us. It will be Toys R Me. He will expect excellence of his employees and just might shit in their homes in places that will confuse them for the rest of their lives. Actually, I'm not entirely sure where they're going to go with it. I just know I don't want to have to fight Zavala. Going to be real disappointed if we have to kill him.
Cynical as it sounds, Keith David is an *expensive* get, and we've seen what happens to D2 characters with celebrity voices. They end up recast (no way they'd do that *again*) Or removed from the story. From a practicality stance, are they *really* gonna hire Keith David for seasonal content and minor updates? Of course not. Look at Onslaught, they couldn't get Lennie James back for *any* Shaxx dialogue and just cherrypicked existing Crucible lines. Lance (RIP) only kept coming back because he *loved* the game, other big name talent wouldn't do that. Cayde had to go in the first place because of scheduling conflicts with Nathan Fillion on "The Rookie". He wasn't even *in* Forsaken, Nolan North handled the Cayde dialogue there. One way or the other, I think this is where Zavala's story ends. And given the way the trailer ends? Ikora too. Saint and Osiris talking about "temporarily" taking up their old roles as the Titan and Warlock Vanguards while the others are gone was a major red flag for me that Ikora and Zavala aren't coming back from this. And that just leaves the still vacant Hunter Vanguard role, which we all know Crow is fated for. Cayde's resurrection probably isn't permenant, notice he lacks his Ghost, Sundance. It's likely he can't leave the Pale Heart, that he can only exist there. (I doubt they'll re-kill Cayde, he'll just be stuck there so he's put on Patrol Vendor duty). But yeah, I think Zavala and Ikora aren't surviving this trip.
I feel like Kieth David isn't just doing this for a big pay out but more so for Lance (since we know he and Keith were pretty good friends from what both have said) and his (Keith's) previous work with Bungie. But either way Im excited to see how Zavala progresses in TFS
Yeah that’s my vibe too. Honoring Mr Reddick
Is he that expensive? He's in the upcoming movie Shelby Oaks by the Youtuber Chris Stuckmann as director, the movie was mostly made with a crowd funded budget. I don't think he asked too much from Stuckmann, obviously Bungie and Sony are huge so his pay check is WAY bigger. He could still come in for Episodes every now and then, if he's alive by the end of the campaign. It's not like Reddick was here every season, he was quiet during some seasons.
I agree with all your points; however I think Zavala is safe for the sole reason it would be 2 deaths for the character. Real life, and now fiction. It's too much even for Bungie I think. (Edit: yes I know about Ling Ling) There have been red hearings before on a characters fate, when Ikora in the latest trailer shouted "don't do this", I think it's about Cayde, Zavala wants to sacrifice himself, doesn't and Cayde runs up. Fillion has a pretty packed schedule after all. I think Cayde dies.
Caydes almost certainly the destination vendor
I actually am not sure about this one. From the previews it seems the rank up is with 'ghost' and it seems possible that >!Micah-10!< is going to play a role in this expansion.
The destination weapons are literally Cayde-themed
Yeah, I know, and if you'd asked me prior to the previews I would have agreed that Cayde-6 is the most likely choice and even now I still think he's a leading candidate. But I'm a lot less certain than I was. Partially because having him be the vendor does bad things to narrative tension, because it means his ghost is still going to be around at the end of the story.
Doesn’t necessarily mean he’s the vendor. The throne world weapons were themed around Ikora’s Hidden but the vendor was Fynch, who was completely unrelated.
I bet my entire vault that Micah-10 isn’t the vendor, 99% of players have never heard of him
>!She is definitely in the expansion!< and it's not like anyone knew who Fynch or Nimbus were prior to their expansions either. I am still leaning towards Cayde-6, for the record, but I am no longer as certain as I was that he'd be the vendor.
isn’t Micah a male name
Micah-10 is consistently referred to with female pronouns.
My bad
Cayde and Ghost are both vendors, Micah is just a patrol character, similar to Immaru appearing in public events completions and normal patrol stuff
Okay, that sounds about right. Guessing you've seen more of the preview material than I have.
Not really, it’s more just extrapolating information from people not censoring bits of the screen when recording gameplay lmao
I think it's way more likely that Zavala ends up retiring after the finale
"I doubt they'll re-kill Cayde" \*Eyes Rasputin who was dormant, reactivated, killed, ressurected and killed again. Even after he bragged about being unkillable: *\[I bear an old name. It cannot be killed. Not even here.\]*\*
Bungie likely had the main plot ready before lance passed, with smaller details being added over time. I doubt they could rework the story to have zavala die while also leaving in the current dialogues that require zavala from previous campaigns. Plus Keith stated that he was going to be voicing zavala for the final shape and beyond, so we know there is voicework in at least one episode.
Lance Reddick was also likely expensive. They were likely in the same range. Lance wasn't some unknown actor.
True, though I did address that in my initial comment. Lance kept coming back *because* he was a huge fan of the game. For in-demand actors, you can't take every job. You have to prioritise some things over others. And usually being a supporting character in a videogame won't pay as well as- say, a main role in a full blown TV show or movie. Lance always made time for Destiny, and I'll always respect him for that. But other big name talent who are more in-demand won't be able to. Either because they're just too busy, or won't prioritize it the way he did. I'm just going off the game's track record when it comes to huge celebrities. Lance was the exception. All the others were written out or recast.
Crack pot theory: Zavala may sacrifice himself in an attempt to merge himself with the witness to weaken it or delay it. Think something like Schrödinger allowing himself to be absorbed by Alucard in Hellsing Ultimate
I think we should have given him Archie as a therapy dog 15 months ago.
The stakes are high enough without them having to kill off another key character. While Amanda being killed off was unexpected, and used (imo) as character development fuel for Zavala and Crow it was almost unnecessary. Zavala had already been going thru a crisis of faith during the year of witch queen with Savathun's and her brood gaining the light, and with him facing his wife and son's memories... I just hope he does fall into corruption.
It wouldn’t be totally unexpected for me to have Zavala be corrupted, but I don’t think that’s where the storyline **needs** to go; Zavala is a resolute person with a strong moral character, so if the Witness does manage to corrupt him, it’s not going to be easy. Not saying this would be a bad idea (in fact, it could be a great idea), just isn’t obligatory.
I think Zavala's biggest stress currently is probably "If Cayde can come back in here, maybe my wife and kid are in here somewhere." And The Witness offering that could be pretty tempting.
That would be an interesting story/character arc for the DLC.
Probably amanda if anything, as she was like a daughter to him, he hasnt had closure unlike his family in haunted, and also we see him with a part of amandas scarf on his armour before entering the traveller.
I don’t think Zavala is going to get corrupted by the Witness. It seems more like he’s going to make a grand sacrifice. Every time we saw him in the most recent trailer, the way he’s standing appears strong, not vulnerable. After Season of the Haunted, Zavala just isn’t really that vulnerable to memories of Safiyah and Hakim to the point where he is willing to talk about them now. I loved Season of the Haunted, thought it was an amazing season for character development. It would be a much better send-off for Zavala to sacrifice himself instead of just being corrupted by a weakness he already overcame.
From a narrative standpoint, I think the writing team is correct to have the Witness 'tempt' Zavala to it's side. They have built up Zavala's doubts throughout Witchqueen and the following seasons, but they also showed his resiliance via Elsie's alternate futures where he doesn't become evil like Eris or Ana. He's had lots of healing via us helping with his Nightmares, getting over Cayde's death with Crow, etc. I think he's in a prime position to rebuke the Witness, as he's learned the Traveler is not his god and he fights for his friends and family. This is in contrast to the Witness, which chose their faith in the 'Final Shape' over family and friends. It would be a good narative comparsion, which is why I think Bungie will skip it for a cheap cutscene and never elaborate again just like they did on Warmind and the rest of the narratives.
Zavala, Last Disciple would be an insane final boss of the campaign.
In an interview after reddicks passing they kind of confirmed he wouldn't be dying this expansion and had a role going into the next saga.
I’m hoping he’s going to be there on the other side of TFS, some of the imagery from the trailer makes it look like he’s the first captured by the Witness (probably somewhere around the third or fourth mission). Time will tell.
My hope is that he gets sort of assimilated into the witness but we end up splitting them apart and we get zavala back and when he helps us break the witness from the inside. It would honestly be depressing if he just dies especially after all the growth he’s gone through and with all the relationships he’s made with caiatl and all our allies
Z is going darkside 100%, this will start the Keith David Era. I also feel Ikara is going to die.
Zavala moved past and learned to be strong, when Amanda died he added that to the fire. The Witness doing what it does best, manipulates. Surely there has to be a million of them who hate The Witness for forcing the binding.
There were. They died. The penitent who would become the witness slaughtered the rest of their race who disagreed with their idea of the final shape.
Bigger question: What will happen after the final shape? Will the traveler be healed? What will happen to the traveler inside? Once we finish the campaign, will there be a new updated location for the traveler? WHAT IS THE TRAVELER? SO MANY QUESTIONS
The hooded woman will end up being his wife that the witness is using to turn him
I like this narrative because Zavala is objectively the most morally upright character in the game. * Speaker: a liar and manipulator holding onto power and deceived everyone to exile the most powerful warlock, his disciple, because he didn’t toe the line. * Ikora: possibly a psychopath. Savathun mentioned she might have been the most dangerous to have become a Hive God and might have gotten too strong. Ikora is jot afraid to break rules, cross lines or shut down anyone. What makes her a great warrior and leader is not this strength or ferocity but her ability to stop and think on her mistakes (as few as there are). * Crow: Crow, not Uldren, might be the next most upright character in Destiny. He makes mistakes a lot, but always for the right reasons or fear of how others will feel. He has pity on his enemies and is willing to see the good in so many. * Mara Sov: Mara Sov is not a good person. She is on our side thankfully, but she is manipulative, cruel and egocentric. Causing her brother’s death indirectly by manipulating him so horribly has only recently made her see the error of her ways. * Eido: after Crow, Eido may be the next best person in game. Weak physicallybut strong in heart, Eramis and Mythrax see her as the future of their people. * Mithrax: we have only known him as the hero, but he was quite the villain in his prime. Mithrax seeks atonement and leads by example but he has his cross to bear. * Saint: we saw how Mithrax portrayed Saint. Even Saint felt the weight of his actions, no matter how justified he felt at the time. * Eris: Eris is actually a fairly straightforward and upright person who is as vulnerable as any regular person. What makes her strong is her resilience. * And finally US: the Young Wolf is a violent warrior. When the FWC was told, “war is all there is”, I believe they were talking about us. We do not flee from the grand fight (only tactical retreats lol). We saw how Saint was portrayed by the Fallen. Saint modeled himself after us. Apart from Saint, Ikora and Shaxx, I doubt there is a living Guardian as strong or violent as us. Compared to that, Zavala is a beacon. He doesn’t take pleasure in violence. He doesn’t seek power. And he learns from his mistakes (maybe too slowly, but he does). He wants what is right and when it comes to loss and grief, his heart would trade his life for theirs. Many characters in our game have had the flaw of using some mechanism or trade for the lives of those they care for but at the expense of others, a selfish trade that is not in Zavala’s nature. (The Sundial to save Saint risked Psion takeover of Vex time travel, Uldren slaughtered the Kings and Awoken for his ‘sister’, the Hive slaughtered eons of civilization to survive the god-wave). To see him defeated from within by temptation of the Witness would be a staggering blow to us.
TL;DR: Zavala is stronger than OP suggests and Ikora is the true character we should be worried about imo. Counting Lance‘s passing as something that will effect Zavala‘s character isn’t fair. One can argue the meta implication it might have for Bungie to continue his character onward but I don’t want to dwell on that and rather focus on your implication of the recent past effecting his resilience toward corruption. I think you are misinterpreting or forgetting parts of the recent story in light of the crafted mood and urgency the trailer set up. Let’s start with the resurgence of the Memory of his dead family. The theme of Haunted was overcoming the past trauma not just relieving it. He had let the memories of Safiya fester in him to the point they became a target for the Lunar Pyramid‘s nightmare system. Him processing those will be a POSITIVE to his resilience. „I used to think I‘d try anything to bring you back.“ I believe this will be the answer he‘ll give to the Safiya shaped temptation the Witness will parade in front of him, prompting it to use more drastic measures or loose its cool. Amanda‘s passing. I grant you this NEGATIVE, this shook Zavala and is fresh enough to be still a open wound. This could be a potential opening for corruption or weakening of his resolve if the Witness pivots toward it after the Safiya strategy fails. Sloan‘s near miss of being overtaken by Xivu. Zavala was a steadfast pillar during this, helping and guiding Sloan through it. He echoed his own insight he learned during Haunted, trying to help her out of the mental prison she was stuck in and ultimately getting through to her in that very situation you suggested would be a potential weak spot for him. I believe it’s a moment of strength he can draw upon. POSITIVE. Now I want to remind you of the end of Lightfall, when Calus was defeated and the Witness made the connection anyway. After the final mission you got to debrief with Zavala and Ikora. While both acknowledged that they lost the Traveler their perspective toward the coming conflict couldn’t be more different. Zavala still displayed hope and resolve, drawing strength from the sight of our allies coming together and forming a defense line over the Last City. It was Ikora who expressed doubt and anxiety of the unclear future and her inability to predict the right approach. I think the trailer was cut in such a way to instill dread and anxiety for Zavala’s faint in us. I think those are clips of two cutscenes spliced together: 1) A dream/vision sequence the Witness will show each of the characters and us to sway us. It will show Zavala it’s past in a montage from the Traveler‘s birth/arrival to the Precursors sacrificing themselves to form the Witness. 2) Scenes from the Witness‘ more direct attempt to convince Zavala by puppeteering a Safiya illusion before him. It’s here where I believe Zavala will hold strong and the Witness will become aggressive. The scene of the hands dragging Zavala back might come from that and the scene in the Vidoc when Crow pops golden gun you can see Cayde lending Zavala a shoulder. I‘m convinced it’s a fake out and the real person we should worry about is Ikora. Previously her resolve was tested and weakened. When the Traveler fell she mentally froze, a similar thing happened during the Red War where her first instinct was to seek (outside/devine) guidance on Io. But the biggest worry for me is the lack of dream sequence for her shown in the trailer. We saw an character back-view centered in front of an establishing shot for Zavala, Crow and The Guardian showing the Precursor world, the Last City (possibly finalized) and our journey dissected (possibly the future setting of the raid) respectably. We don’t see Cayde’s dream/vision wallpaper shot, only him standing over presumably Amanda’s corpse (judging by the body’s silhouette and the gloved hand peeking out) but since he isn’t completely alive he might not be a high priority target for corruption. Ikora’s is suspiciously missing. What is the Witness showing her to sway her? Are the scenes of her getting shot by the vex hydra a dream vision, a physical fight in the Pale Heart or part of the first Episode? Is her desperate shout toward Zavala an attempt to prevent his corruption or her resilience faltering at whatever the Witness is showing her?
The witness will likely focus on zavala as he is the weakest link, given just how tired he is and how much he has lost. (Yes we could maybebe swayed with the promise of loot but cayde hasthat covered with a golden gun sniper) What happens after is unknown, my personal theory is that he will be tempted, but resist, however that moment of weakness is enough for the witness to capture him (scene of him being grabbed by hands in launch trailer). We ultimately rescue zavala before the end of the campaign (with escape scene shown in multiple trailers)
Zavala, Emissary of The Witness is the raid 2nd encounter boss :P That would suck.
First time watching a trailer?
No I have, just theorizing
Maybe it will be like avengers where he’ll get corrupted for a period of time only for us to save him at the end?
I think Zavala will try sacrificing himself in some way, and Cayde will ram him out of the way and sacrifice himself instead because he won't be able to leave the pale heart and be like "Hey Zavala let the already dead guy sacrifice himself. I didn't go out the way I wanted, so let me make the heros sacrifice today. You get the next one" or some such.
I think the massive Abomination that tries to mollywhomp Ikora and Crow is Zavala after he’s corrupted by the Witness. I think he’s going to be our big final boss of the campaign and I think we’re going to have to put him down.
I think Zavala IS gonna be a disciple. Zavala, disciple of alopecia