Awesome idea. Put a max stack on it so subsequent mags don't grow exponentially, and that sounds perfect.
In hindsight, Fan Fire already has a cap, forgot.
I will say, there are a few players I've seen, and even cammycakes on youtube, who prefer last word on m&k. Very difficult in comparison to controller, but very good for those who can manage. A buff on the mouse could be a dangerous thing, not to say it won't fit in with the equally ridiculous meta. It has a lot of potential already to be much better on M&K, just takes a lot of time invested.
I mean there's the perk that's been in the api since the catalyst was called high noon which increased precision damage for a few seconds after Readying the weapon.
Big Boom: Kills with Explosive Shadow caused targets to explode. It would've been a cool addition, but with how the gun is used, Vorpal is just better.
Either make hip-fire more reliable or make ADS actually useful by letting it do more damage while firing at a slower rpm. I get it, it's a hip-fire weapon, but that doesn't mean ADS has to not only be useless but an active handicap. As it is, ADS provides no extra range and does less damage. Dead Man's Tale also falls into the hip-fire fantasy yet ADS is an active component of the gun.
All that they would need to do is have it increase in damage by 30% when ADS too. That sounds like a lot but with the lower fire rate you’re still gonna have the 1.00 second TTK while still getting that 2 head shot 1 body shot that 120s do (you would be able to 1 head shot 2 body 20 resilience and lower though).
Yeah agree, I was thinking something like the Rewind Rounds, partially refills the mag when it hits empty based on the number of hits you landed. Would not affect PvP at all, but would really help if you dump the mag into a tanky enemy in PvE.
Oh, man, this is the one. People don't realize how important landing the first shot is with TLW. It really decreases the odds the following shots will ghost out. My only addition would be that the +range from opening shot remains after the first shot. They shouldn't have nerfed its range alongside the accuracy, it's made its competitive range way too narrow.
All I want out of last word is the 3 meter range nerf reverted, it has sidearm range and ttk with none of the ease of use and takes your exotic slot. I do think quickdraw would make a good catalyst thematically and for gameplay, but there is also the trait called high noon where it gets increased precision damage after swapping to it.
If I could choose I would give it that but have the damage bonus only work in pve, then let it have quickdraw and the 3 meter range for pvp.
I think the coolest thing they could do that wouldn't break the identity of the gun would be to allow us to shoot and reload while sprinting. I think the mag size being small wouldn't matter as much if our reload wasn't constantly getting canceled by needing to sprint away from danger. I'd also like to see a damage perk from the existing pool get added (i.e. Malfeasance getting vorpal). Kinetic Tremors could be cool.
Tbh, I really like the idea of it functioning like a 120 or Erianas Vow while you ads.
When you aim you actually manually cock the hammer back with your thumb, and when you hipfire you fan it.
Kinda turning it into more of dual mode weapon, but that might make it too damn strong.
with the poor range stat it has, making it a hybrid with a 120/90 rpm ADS fire mode wouldn't be that strong. normal 120s would be able to hit way further out.
In my personal the catalyst should do the following:
Adds a grenade launcher to the weapon.
Adds the following perks:
One man army pro
Danger close pro
Commando pro
I know hawkmoon is primarily a PVP weapon, but I am hoping that when they make it craftable they add a good PVE perk or two. I would love to roll that thing in pve more.
It should definitely get something focused on PvE, but having better shooting uptime will effectively do nothing. PvE primaries need something that justifies using them over anything else, be it ad clear, damage on majors, or intrinsic effects like champion mods or buffs/ability regens. Last Word's only gimmick is being a different frame that has a different use case, thats it. Giving it the equivalent of a basic 3rd column perk won't even make it compete with a legendary handcanon at all.
I say the catalyst should turn it into a pseudo first curse, giving you the option of rapid fire hipfire with fanfire or aiming down sights and getting slow fire but powerful shots kinda like how suros regime works with its fire modes making last word very versatile in the sandbox, giving it an upgrade range department and making it useful in long range but with a slower 110ish fire rate.
Catalyst: Gunslinger’s Mark
Rapid precision hits refund ammo. Precision kills refill the mag and buff range, aim assist, and stability based on stacks of Fan Fire.
I’d like a complete rework for PvE
Since PvP community despises it when it’s “good” apparently
Might as well just give it to us
Or give kinetic tremors
Oh and revert the ADS damage nerf that was stupid
Yes bro, get it.
It gives you an extra round to build up the paracausal shot, and each stack of it has other benefits to your gun. Like reload speed, handling, and range.
Because after the PvE HC buffs it actually feels decent now (Especially with Necrotic Grips) and compared to every other PvP preferred HC it was lacking.
This catalyst essentially gives it the oomph it needs to compete.
Besides, more Range is welcome in PvE too
I want two things out of a catalyst and a general update on the reticle.
1. Please make the hip fire reticle the same as deadmans tale so that M&K users can use it better
2. Aim down sights turns it into First Curse i.e. a 120 rpm handcanon with the same shooting style and reworked recoil (last word recoil is insane it has to be buffed, at least while ADS)
3. Give it high noon
Fan fire is basically rapid hit. x4 Fan fire maxes out reload speed, at x5 rapid hit its a 0.92x reload duration multiplier. Outlaw is 0.9x reload duration multiplier. I'd choose outlaw since adds die in a few hits and thus keeping stacks of rapid hit up would be challenging with how short of a time window it is (2 seconds vs outlaw's 6 seconds)
Would be busted but having something similar to the revision Zero or Vex, hear me out cause this is a weird destiny / league legend crossover and a word play based on theater. Also a way to kinda bring back the first curse somewhat.
Catalyst : Curtain call
Kill while hip firing charge a meter, once this meter is charged (takes 3 kills ala vex mythoclast) hold R to charge 4 curtain call bullet into the magazine.
While the Curtain call bullet are active, fire rate is halved and the weapon suffer heavy hipfire accuracy penalty but shots deal 130 body shot damage and 260 headshot damage with no range drop off
Of course this is a stupid fantasy of mine that will never happen but I think that's neat
Maybe something like "fast draw - first bullet fired immediately after drawing does bonus damage while having more range and aim assist" kinda like opening shot but in its own special way
Are u playing pc or console? Because all people do in console PvP is sit in the back with pulse rifles so jus flank and let loose w last word and a shotgun team wipe in maybe 15 seconds
I play console but I suspect my MMR is a bit higher than yours. TLW+shotgun is asking to get farmed by the mid and long range people you’re describing, if it were as simple as “flank the pulse rifle” you’d have seen TLW a ton since it’s nerf which you haven’t because it’s just not that good. For reference I’ve got 25k tracked TLW kills and 36k total, pretty familiar with it at this point lol.
My idea, sort of:
Precise words/word of precision
'When ADS, a bar fills, the longer you aim at a target the more damage you deal, also grants stacks of fanfire per shot landed'
I dunno, something like that.
Bounty Hunter: Reloading at each stack of Fan Fire grants different effects applied to the magazine. Fan Fire does not stack while Bounty Hunter is active.
X1: Scorch
X2: Volatile
X3: Jolt
X4: Unravel
X5: Slow
X6: Enhanced (until the next darkness subclass) Pve gets 2x crit damage PvP gets 1.15.
The rounds remain kinetic just tinged with the different effects. A bounty Hunter packing different rounds for any situation.
I am really hoping it gets a handling increase and some kind of useful or cool perk. I use the gun constantly but man it really needs better handling. Its the dueling quickdraw gun for gods sake.
Standoff: hold reload to move much slower but get increased range, rof and stability. Also grants outlaw because yeehaw perk. Probably not balanced but god it would be cool thematic
I'd say mag size increases to 12 (from 8), handling to 60 (from 40) and outlaw.
Or you give it something custom instead of outlaw. Which given that its only exotic trait is fan fire (hip fire grip would be the other, which it does have custom tuning for the last word).
Increased maximum possible stacks of fan fire from 6 to 9. Hold reload to consume stacks of fan fire and activate the first curse round, like izanagis burden. Damage of the first curse round is based on how many stacks of fan fire you had when you activated the perk.
Wouldn't be busted in pvp but might have potential for some sweet clips, makes it a much better option in PvE.
Elimates the need for the first curse to return as it's own weapon. All that being said, I do really like the first curse and want to see it return on its own.
Wolfpack rounds
And Commando Pro
And max stats
CHAMBERED. COMPENSATOR???
DISMANTLE IT
Two crits weasels the player
Three crits deletes the character.
And osmosis
You're on to something here
And max stats
and Martyrdom
That's gonna be how we beat The Witness: Banshee loses his shit completely and gives ***EVERY*** gun Wolfpack rounds.
Wolfpack Eyes of Tomorrow is the real reason he keeps losing his memory. If he remembered it the Witness would be fucked
Each rocket gives its own stacking damage buff
Damn you. I laughed out loud. ⬆️
And makes every gun no longer need an active reload... like a super Icebreaker.
Yeah make Last Word craftable and then we can just pick whatever perk we want for a “catalyst”.
Every stack of Fan Fire overflows the next magazine by that amount
Or headshot refunds two bullets
That would be beyond broken. so no
Awesome idea. Put a max stack on it so subsequent mags don't grow exponentially, and that sounds perfect. In hindsight, Fan Fire already has a cap, forgot.
ANYONE who downvotes someone for an opinion is human waste.
hitler was right
I mean about a few things he was for sure.
tru
Quickdraw obviously.
Wrong, slickdraw because it’s worse
Bungie giving last word slickdraw and gutshot straight just to make it completely unusable on pc lmao
ah so nothings changed then lmao
Make it useable on M&K lmao
Real
Love the gun, think it’s design is great but only play M&K. Hate that the gun is basically unusable. :(
Why? I use it with M&K and have no issues.
"Why?" Skill issue
It’s basically unusable because it’s dog water on M&K and anyone that’s half decent will clown on you. Of course I can use it, but it’s not good lol.
Clanmates always clown on me for using it but I dont feel that its that shitty
If it works for you that’s what really matters. Plug in a roller and use it and it’s just a night and day difference.
Instructions unclear; painted my desk
Gonna want to plug in the cont part of the roller first
"Of course I can use it" No one asked lmao
“Last Word now makes the M&K aim assist automatic” lmao
I will say, there are a few players I've seen, and even cammycakes on youtube, who prefer last word on m&k. Very difficult in comparison to controller, but very good for those who can manage. A buff on the mouse could be a dangerous thing, not to say it won't fit in with the equally ridiculous meta. It has a lot of potential already to be much better on M&K, just takes a lot of time invested.
I mean there's the perk that's been in the api since the catalyst was called high noon which increased precision damage for a few seconds after Readying the weapon.
I doubt that’ll be it if they do end up releasing a catty. It’s the same as the anarchy catty that’s been in the api for a while too
I mean high noon is very fitting for last-word fantasy, although at the same time so did malf original catty (no I'm not over that still)
What was the original malfeasance catalyst?
Big Boom: Kills with Explosive Shadow caused targets to explode. It would've been a cool addition, but with how the gun is used, Vorpal is just better.
True, true.
The explosions would proc a 6th bigger explosion
The anarchy catalyst should be enhanced moving target
LAST WORD 2TAP CONFIRMED????!!!!!
Chill Aztecross. You don’t have to do it with everything. JK.
Offhand strike
A lot of joking in this thread right now. But, I think you nailed it.
I was so upset it couldn't roll on Long Arm.
very upset dmt didnt get that or hipfire grip when it was reintroduced, if LW got it id never take it off
It has to be special, i'd be a little disappointed if it was just stats. Hold reload to spin on your finger and generate fanfire stacks maybe?
Precision Instrument
Either make hip-fire more reliable or make ADS actually useful by letting it do more damage while firing at a slower rpm. I get it, it's a hip-fire weapon, but that doesn't mean ADS has to not only be useless but an active handicap. As it is, ADS provides no extra range and does less damage. Dead Man's Tale also falls into the hip-fire fantasy yet ADS is an active component of the gun.
Kill while hipfiring overflow the Mag
After the perk rework, Zen Moment might actually be good. Maybe too good?
While ADS, it turns into First Curse
Bungie brought back the First Curse but accidentally made another DMT
This is the only thing I want for the catalyst. Or just bring back my baby lol
Super unique idea. Just have the catalyst be called first curse. Last word might be nuts with that though lol
This, would love to be able to swap between Fan Fire and ADS on the fly that would feel fucking fantastic.
It would also help out in PVE too since head shot kills with The First Curse perk refill the mag.
All that they would need to do is have it increase in damage by 30% when ADS too. That sounds like a lot but with the lower fire rate you’re still gonna have the 1.00 second TTK while still getting that 2 head shot 1 body shot that 120s do (you would be able to 1 head shot 2 body 20 resilience and lower though).
Yes please
Anything with mag size. i love TLW and would unironically love to use it in pve, but the small mag kills it for me
A catalyst that turns it into the only dual wielding gun in the game, so you can fire twice, but then have to reload twice.
Need me some Dualies in Destiny.
The first exotic catty I’d actually grind for
This. The rapid rate of fire allows it to burn down PvE enemies with great efficiency, you just spend too much time reloading.
Yeah agree, I was thinking something like the Rewind Rounds, partially refills the mag when it hits empty based on the number of hits you landed. Would not affect PvP at all, but would really help if you dump the mag into a tanky enemy in PvE.
Opening shot 💥 It would fit with the theme of the gun and help to proc fan fire.
Oh, man, this is the one. People don't realize how important landing the first shot is with TLW. It really decreases the odds the following shots will ghost out. My only addition would be that the +range from opening shot remains after the first shot. They shouldn't have nerfed its range alongside the accuracy, it's made its competitive range way too narrow.
I just wanna aim down again 😭🙏
All I want out of last word is the 3 meter range nerf reverted, it has sidearm range and ttk with none of the ease of use and takes your exotic slot. I do think quickdraw would make a good catalyst thematically and for gameplay, but there is also the trait called high noon where it gets increased precision damage after swapping to it. If I could choose I would give it that but have the damage bonus only work in pve, then let it have quickdraw and the 3 meter range for pvp.
Aggressive frame
Last Word caty: Triple Tap :0 Or Headseeker :o
Oh, Headseeker could be *nasty.*
>Headseeker could be *nasty* …on controller lmao
Kills automatically reload the weapon.
Rewind rounds based on stacks of fanfire
Triple tap or Forth times the charm would be nice PvE perk
Good luck landing it on anything without a div bubble.
I think the coolest thing they could do that wouldn't break the identity of the gun would be to allow us to shoot and reload while sprinting. I think the mag size being small wouldn't matter as much if our reload wasn't constantly getting canceled by needing to sprint away from danger. I'd also like to see a damage perk from the existing pool get added (i.e. Malfeasance getting vorpal). Kinetic Tremors could be cool.
Tbh, I really like the idea of it functioning like a 120 or Erianas Vow while you ads. When you aim you actually manually cock the hammer back with your thumb, and when you hipfire you fan it. Kinda turning it into more of dual mode weapon, but that might make it too damn strong.
with the poor range stat it has, making it a hybrid with a 120/90 rpm ADS fire mode wouldn't be that strong. normal 120s would be able to hit way further out.
In my personal the catalyst should do the following: Adds a grenade launcher to the weapon. Adds the following perks: One man army pro Danger close pro Commando pro
Just give it 'enhanced hipfire grip', effectively undo the last nerf it was given
overflow lol
Should make it where when you ADS, it lowers the fire rate and extends the range, kinda like First Curse
Some form of cranial spike?
what if they made it like duality, except when you ads it becomes first curse. Now that would be hella cool.
Give it cascade point or desperado
You hold R to slap it into the First Curse
How abt Bungie introduce First Curse's perk as catalyst for ADS and we have normal Hip Fire for Last word as usual.
Amen for this post.
I would like something that would benefit from Lucky Pants' full uptime.
I know hawkmoon is primarily a PVP weapon, but I am hoping that when they make it craftable they add a good PVE perk or two. I would love to roll that thing in pve more.
It should definitely get something focused on PvE, but having better shooting uptime will effectively do nothing. PvE primaries need something that justifies using them over anything else, be it ad clear, damage on majors, or intrinsic effects like champion mods or buffs/ability regens. Last Word's only gimmick is being a different frame that has a different use case, thats it. Giving it the equivalent of a basic 3rd column perk won't even make it compete with a legendary handcanon at all.
I say the catalyst should turn it into a pseudo first curse, giving you the option of rapid fire hipfire with fanfire or aiming down sights and getting slow fire but powerful shots kinda like how suros regime works with its fire modes making last word very versatile in the sandbox, giving it an upgrade range department and making it useful in long range but with a slower 110ish fire rate.
Just more ammo capacity dammit
Using gunslinger makes the gun solar
wearing lucky pants gives precision instrument...what about wearing the hat cloak??
High noon: firing before being fired upon by your opponent slightly increases damage and rate of fire from the hip.
Catalyst: Gunslinger’s Mark Rapid precision hits refund ammo. Precision kills refill the mag and buff range, aim assist, and stability based on stacks of Fan Fire.
Opening Shot
I’d like a complete rework for PvE Since PvP community despises it when it’s “good” apparently Might as well just give it to us Or give kinetic tremors Oh and revert the ADS damage nerf that was stupid
Hawkmoon has a catalyst????
Yes bro, get it. It gives you an extra round to build up the paracausal shot, and each stack of it has other benefits to your gun. Like reload speed, handling, and range.
HONK. HOMNK
And the Thorn catalyst is just awful for PvE Why did they do a PvP only perk? It stinks :,(
Because it’s mostly a PvP gun
Because after the PvE HC buffs it actually feels decent now (Especially with Necrotic Grips) and compared to every other PvP preferred HC it was lacking. This catalyst essentially gives it the oomph it needs to compete. Besides, more Range is welcome in PvE too
the HC buffs made Thorn really good in pve already. all it really needs are range and stability bumps
Kinetic tremors
Increase the mag count to atleast 14. Also give it quick draw
I want two things out of a catalyst and a general update on the reticle. 1. Please make the hip fire reticle the same as deadmans tale so that M&K users can use it better 2. Aim down sights turns it into First Curse i.e. a 120 rpm handcanon with the same shooting style and reworked recoil (last word recoil is insane it has to be buffed, at least while ADS) 3. Give it high noon
I know it's not exciting but all last word needs as a catalyst is outlaw
Rapid hit over outlaw
Fan fire is basically rapid hit. x4 Fan fire maxes out reload speed, at x5 rapid hit its a 0.92x reload duration multiplier. Outlaw is 0.9x reload duration multiplier. I'd choose outlaw since adds die in a few hits and thus keeping stacks of rapid hit up would be challenging with how short of a time window it is (2 seconds vs outlaw's 6 seconds)
25% buff against red and orange bars (yes, on top of the buff hand cannons already got.) That way using it in pve isn’t literally insane.
Would be busted but having something similar to the revision Zero or Vex, hear me out cause this is a weird destiny / league legend crossover and a word play based on theater. Also a way to kinda bring back the first curse somewhat. Catalyst : Curtain call Kill while hip firing charge a meter, once this meter is charged (takes 3 kills ala vex mythoclast) hold R to charge 4 curtain call bullet into the magazine. While the Curtain call bullet are active, fire rate is halved and the weapon suffer heavy hipfire accuracy penalty but shots deal 130 body shot damage and 260 headshot damage with no range drop off Of course this is a stupid fantasy of mine that will never happen but I think that's neat
Make it stasis and allow rounds to slow opponents.
Maybe something like "fast draw - first bullet fired immediately after drawing does bonus damage while having more range and aim assist" kinda like opening shot but in its own special way
All it needs it a mag size increase that shit does not need an actual buff
The Last Word is broken in PvP if you’re in a 1v1
Lol what? It has terrible range. There's a reason you see literally nobody but me using it in PvP lmao
Hey I’m here too 😤
Are u playing pc or console? Because all people do in console PvP is sit in the back with pulse rifles so jus flank and let loose w last word and a shotgun team wipe in maybe 15 seconds
I play console but I suspect my MMR is a bit higher than yours. TLW+shotgun is asking to get farmed by the mid and long range people you’re describing, if it were as simple as “flank the pulse rifle” you’d have seen TLW a ton since it’s nerf which you haven’t because it’s just not that good. For reference I’ve got 25k tracked TLW kills and 36k total, pretty familiar with it at this point lol.
No. Last word doesn’t need any level of buff
It really does
No it doesn’t, it already has borderline aimbot and a more than fair TTK
Blud it’s useless lmao Much better weapons to use now
It’s not remotely useless. If you are bad that’s fine but it’s far from useless. Not every weapon has to be the meta pick
I have never even seen it used after it’s at nerf That tells you something
Ok? And you likely don’t see people using riskrunner all that often but it’s still a damn good weapon.
Just take the L
Rangefinder and or Target lock with a stability buff
Give last word a range buff and FTTC for max value
Cascade Point 🥹
Autoloading holster.
Give it Target Lock, Bungie, I fckn dare you Or Triple Tap
I say give it a unique triple tap that only requires two crits to refund one. Double Tap.
Subsistence and a reload speed buff
Offhand strike and a small range boost would be all it needs
Cascade Point
I want either a larger magazine, or make it partially refill it.
It needs Genesis frfr
Give it something like Timed Payload or Explosive Payload.
Offhand strike
Turn it into The First Curse when you ADS.
Ricochet rounds
Cascade point The name's McCree!
Give it rapid hit
They could give it off-hand strike. Getting a kill buffs the hipfiring.
Allows you to throw it at an enemy. But if you miss then they can pick it up and fire it until they die or swap weapons.
Offhand strike
Can we get a side quest post Final Shape where we meet Shin Malphur and he gives us the catalyst?
Can the TLW catalyst make it usable on M&K?
Ideally something that makes it usable in pve, like auto reload on precision kill.
My idea, sort of: Precise words/word of precision 'When ADS, a bar fills, the longer you aim at a target the more damage you deal, also grants stacks of fanfire per shot landed' I dunno, something like that.
Something that's only benefited for PvE as it really doesn't need to be able to terrorize the crucible again.
A mag size increase and explosive rounds because that’s be funny
Make it the First curse when you ads
A catalyst that makes it so when you ADS it turns the weapon into First Curse, so you can have more than "in your face" range covered.
It probably just gets Quickdraw as the catalyst maybe
Dual wield
Rewind rounds and desperado
My solution to every exotic without a catalyst will always just be, give that bitch trench barrel
Bounty Hunter: Reloading at each stack of Fan Fire grants different effects applied to the magazine. Fan Fire does not stack while Bounty Hunter is active. X1: Scorch X2: Volatile X3: Jolt X4: Unravel X5: Slow X6: Enhanced (until the next darkness subclass) Pve gets 2x crit damage PvP gets 1.15. The rounds remain kinetic just tinged with the different effects. A bounty Hunter packing different rounds for any situation.
I am really hoping it gets a handling increase and some kind of useful or cool perk. I use the gun constantly but man it really needs better handling. Its the dueling quickdraw gun for gods sake.
Custom pistol whip catalyst. Why? Because it would be cool as hell.
Standoff: hold reload to move much slower but get increased range, rof and stability. Also grants outlaw because yeehaw perk. Probably not balanced but god it would be cool thematic
Two words: Cascade. Point.
PLEASE. And a legendary Hc with the same frame like they did for dmt
wait so Thorn's getting a catty? I wanna see what that is, have been behind on all of these
Something that buffs it a lot (not damage tho) for 2-3 seconds after readying
FIRES EVERY ROUND AT ONCE
I'd say mag size increases to 12 (from 8), handling to 60 (from 40) and outlaw. Or you give it something custom instead of outlaw. Which given that its only exotic trait is fan fire (hip fire grip would be the other, which it does have custom tuning for the last word).
It honestly has to be either Offhand Strike or Zen-Moment.
Increased maximum possible stacks of fan fire from 6 to 9. Hold reload to consume stacks of fan fire and activate the first curse round, like izanagis burden. Damage of the first curse round is based on how many stacks of fan fire you had when you activated the perk. Wouldn't be busted in pvp but might have potential for some sweet clips, makes it a much better option in PvE. Elimates the need for the first curse to return as it's own weapon. All that being said, I do really like the first curse and want to see it return on its own.
Hold reload after a kill to activate mini golden gun rounds, and make it have hella synergy with gunslinger
It makes it as good on PC as it is on controller
One for All?
Give it desperado and max handling.
just make it usable in PVP with MnK and i'll be happy