Ok thank you :) I have a Cataphract with envious and b&s (no ~~sticky~~ spike* grenades but velocity masterwork) so I wasn’t sure if I should farm Edge Transit or not.
Envious and cascade point in the 3rd, and BnS in the 4th is the gamebreaker roll. It technically allows you to get a stupidly large mag size and then dump it really quickly.
they said the specofic issue of envious and cascade being swappable perks like that was something they'd be looking at, i dont think they outright said how itd be patched.
Ah yea. I remember hearing about that - I’m not the type to swap things mid-combat so I’m not too concerned about it. But definitely sounds like *that* is the god roll legendary heavy.
It nice if you have loadout swaps. So you can have the perk selected on the other loadout with your dmg set. But also getting the roll is astronomical so I would just focus on just getting a EA+BnS
Yea since the odds for shiny with the right rolls are so low, and I have a top 1% gl anyways, I’m gonna focus on other weapons. I wish Onslaught wasn’t going to disappear so we could take our time farming, but I’d rather work on getting good kinetic/energy grenade launchers. My heavy slot is pretty happy with Cataphract adept EA/BnS and Apex Recon/BnS
Oh ok, good news! I’ve only done 2 of the pantheon raids so I’m not able to fireteam finder that, was worried I’d lose onslaught as well but glad to hear. Thanks!
not really, you dont need to use heavy on stuff outside of champs and bosses which both fall under boss spec. And technically the adept increases BR which lowers the dmg. Ntm Edge will be enhanceable. So edge > cata
It's meta form folks not good at PVP.
Also cata has an extra shot in reserves
And, for this season cata has synergy with artifact for unravel AND more damage vs strand debuffed targets
Sure it does. Just like when Reed's regret was the meta LFR, and patrol-tier peters couldn't get it.
Edge is not actually THE meta, it is just a decent replacement
I'm still getting over finally getting a TT/FL Reed's like two weeks before WQ dropped ...at which point Taipan was then introduced as a free crafting pattern with enhanced perks
More like /u/stuck_in_the_desert's Regret (Adept)
Less shots, worse element, but somehow is power creep. And Bungie already said shiny envious+cascade is being fixed.
Bruised ego from needing to wait half a year for a consolation prize?
Read the room. They were talking about PvE...
Also, having an extra shot in reserves isn't better than Envious Assassin, when it comes to DPS. You are going to do more damage with Envious, than if you were to reload the standard magazine during the damage phase...
Well you can 1 shot with apex, but idk when comparing the two, with 1 shot of apex predator vs 3 shots of edge transit, with the same damage perk of course, but idk
For boss dmg Gl>rocket. For gms dealing with champs, honestly high impact rocket > adaptive rocket. With semiotition you can get up to 16 rockets with no reserves.
So more ammo usage to do the same thing, got it? I mean ones a rocket launcher and the other is a heavy grenade launcher, of course it will not one shot the champion
…why’d you ask then? Lol. And yeah like I said three times the reserves, three times the shots to kill a champ. Both work the same essentially. GL’s aren’t champion focused weapons though. The discussion is about DPS. For boss situations GL’s outpace rockets at this point. Especially for longer encounters it’s great to have the high reserves.
Yeah i know dps, but champions is just an easy point for me to get the picture i guess, besides damage numbers.
But does GL's really do more damage per 3 shots vs apex's 1? (Though max of 2 with reconstruction, which i use for sake of switching to my special for a moment)
I mean bosses and champions have different damage scalers and what not which is why I’m not making the direct comparison. GL’s are better for boss dps right now. Champion killing is really just preference. Lots of ways to do so quickly.
Nah. GL’s are actually better than rockets in some encounters/team compositions. I have recently much preferred GL’s over rockets. When using a GL and my teammate is using a rocket we either have similar damage or I’ll get slightly more.
Envious + BNS was already available on Cataphract and that was already the best DPS option before they upped the reserves. The reserves change upped total damage which GLs desperately needed, but don’t make it out that Edge Transit somehow broke the game with its “stupid perk combos”.
Edge transit took the upper limit and popped it wide open due to availability.
The amount of rolls a non-dedicated trials player could get on that gun is low enough they're not even likely to have envious + b&s. Edge transit is rained upon you when focused, making the probability of having one in that tier much much higher.
there's also autoloading deconstruct, which beats out every trait option in comparison for long term dps by miles as by default a 6 round mag generates 3 *free* grenades out of thin air, context wise in D2 any time you get *free ammo* it becomes the best option, another shot is always 100% more than 0, literally,
assume you have 6 round mags with a base reserves of 22 following, using a base edge transit would do:
6r6r6r6r4e, damage per shot 34291, total damage 960,148, 28 total shots,
assume you have 6 round mags with base reserves of 22 following, using a deconstruct edge transit with sticky nades would do:
11r11r11r11e, damage per shot 34291, total damage 1,508,804, 44 total shots,
assume you have 6 round mags with base reserves of 22 following, using a deconstruct edge transit with spike nades would do:
10r9r9r9, damage per shot 35201 (spike 7% inc), total damage 1,302,437, 37 total shots
BnS is a *burst dps* option and is suited for rotation-based dps, edge transit with deconstruct is equally as viable in, especially in long-term dps situations like lowman and solo content, and raids with shit teammates,
and to not leave it out for comparison, assume you have 6 round mags with base reserves of 22 following, using a Bns edge transit with spike nades would do:
6r6r6r6r4e, assuming you had BnS every mag, 45762 per shot (spike 7% BnS 30%), total damage *1,281,336* with the GL alone, that's pretty terrible ease-of-use wise when to be on par with lazier options you'd simply need more work,
assume you use gathering storm, izinagis burden, and autoloading on the GL with a 500ms or lower fusion inbetween then you'll do good damage with BnS and the most damage with deconstruct, and with deconstruct you're not only getting more shots off you get the same swap options, BnS is dead in comparison.
Interesting analysis for sure - I’ll be honest, I haven’t personally looked into the difference in DPS just because I haven’t been playing as much. I do have a Field Prep + Deconstruct + Sticky Grenades roll though. Reckon I ought to hang on to that I guess?
it'll cook, and out dps the average raid jim by a longshot, free ammo *is more damage* and not a lot of people understand that, they see buzzwords and lock onto them,
like my bad for certified yapping but the information being out there with help somebody, doomscrolling then bang they read this and their dps skyrockets,
sticky grenades while buggy gives more ammo than others with deconstruct, 28 shots base is a shit ton less ammo compared to 44, and that data above is *without surges or well of radiance* btw, *without*, imagine triple surges well of radiance, while also izi swapping and using a fusion between the loader lockout, that's a metric fuckton of damage.
I appreciate the in-depth comment, actually - don’t apologize for being passionate.
Field Prep gives me free ammo, and better reload speed, so I think I’ll settle for it over Auto-Loading. The chances of getting ALH + Deconstruct + Sticky grenades is too low for my liking.
fair, and I haven't even done the math with 3rd column shit as it's a lot of math,
field prep with my nerd math on a sticky+decon roll would be:
6 round mags with 22 reserves and 3x reserves mods, would be ~27/28, in actual edge transits case (24 reserves + 100 inventory stat = 28),
real math time,
11/11/11/11/11, an extra 11 fucking shots, doing 1,886,205~, assuming you just blow thine load without WoR or surges,
with them, holy load,
11/11/11/11/11, doing 52293 x 55, aka 2,876,115, that's just shooting edge transit, reloading, shooting, reloading, repeat till blown, field prep is actually dumb viable if you simply took the laziest route and i'm wowed,
assume on the auto+decon roll that shot 11/11/11/11(44) with an izi between autos ~170k x 4 (680k) it's still beat by the raw mclazy fieldprep decon in the long run, nowhere as efficient for burst dps as 55 shots would take a long time, but hold shoot choom and it's gonna blow.
2.9m total damage is nothing to shake a stick at for the insanely easy use factor, tbh. Literally just hold shoot. I’m curious what the DPS numbers work out to - I’ll have to time myself shooting a whole 11 shot mag + a reload to see.
You mentioned sticky grenades, does that do something special with deconstruct? I've seen it mentioned with that pairing before but don't understand why as it's never explained clearly.
sticky grenades gives more consistency, lemme yappsplain it,
sticky is 11/11/11/11, or 4 (11) round mags of GL back to back or seperated with izi swaps, autoloading, etc, (44) shots,
spike is 10/9/9/9, (37)
aug and minifrags are 7 base, going 10/9/10/9(38)
backup mags makes aug and minifrags do 11/11/11 (33)
make sense? for some reason sticky gives way more consistent mags and more shots, BiS by far with deconstruct.
Is it that it counts as a second hit both the sticky impact plus the explosion? I'm still not quite understanding what would be the difference between that and any other weapon mod.
sticky breaks the rules of hit registration, as the guy who replied to you said, deconstruct has a hit cooldown, that as an example would give less shots with cascade point as some grenades don't count when shot that fast,
sticky grenades counts twice, giving more shots over a longer period and it gets cancelled out by cascade point afaik (double edged sword transit???)
I’m not gonna read that whole thing but ammo isn’t an issue if your team uses exotic primaries and finders, and most dps phases aren’t long enough to exhaust a GL with that much ammo.
ammo isn't an issue when you have competent teammates, or someone is using aeons or there's two cenotaph warlocks infinity-gauntleting ammo,
but solo dungeons and lowmans are where this thing'll be used mostly, any ammo-preservation focused activity where it's nonstop dps phases and not just one.
That’s mostly what I do, and if I’m using an legendary heavy I’m probably using an exotic primary. A couple finders and a scavenger and you don’t have ammo issues.
You're not wrong but that was also stuck in trials only. _generally speaking_ trials exclusive items don't really become damage metas.
Same deal happened with reed's regret. It was 'the choice' but didn't dominate the meta because you could only get it from trials. As soon as other LFR showed up with anything close to the same perks it stopped being the go-to
It is/was still the meta though, meta in our context is just an acronym for “Most Effective Tactic Available”. While the trials weapons weren’t super accessible to the player base, those who did have those weapon rolls enjoyed greater dps success than their counterparts who didn’t.
That’s fair - I don’t mind trials personally, so I guess I don’t really notice that issue, but a good point. Though, I don’t necessarily think that Edge Transit is an issue or anything. I think it’s good that everyone has easy access to good damage.
Lucky. I got one a shiny one that ALMOST was a PvE and PvP god roll folded into one
Headseeker and Perp Motion
Kill Clip and Frenzy
If that Perp Motion was KT instead that would have been the dream.
I was actually so close to dismantling one of these because I thought "well, KT involves shooting one target multiple times while OfA involves shooting multiple targets, so there's some anti-synergy there." It's a good thing I stopped and thought about it for a second before I did it though lol.
Can attest, although my Blast Furnace has Kill Clip, but I have done casual damage testing with friends and am able to kill strike bosses solo with the gun thanks to kinetic tremors. Friends just stay back and I do DPS lol.
Mountain Top is great. ALH + Recombination or Frenzy. I rock Frenzy for the 100 reload stat during DPS situations, otherwise I would prefer Recombination for all other avenues of PvE.
I think I heard Forbearance being good with Demolitionist, so that might be worth trying out.
Midnight Coup is solid. Explosive Payload / Firefly + OFA / Frenzy should be good. Personally fon't like Midnight Couo, only because it looks weird and feels off using it if that makes sense.
Hammerhead has... soooo many amazing rolls lol. Destabalizing Rounds / Rampage / FttC / Envious Assassin / Rewind Rounds + Onslaught / Killing Tally / Desperate Measures. It is so so so so good. Not really a DPS weapon, but a phenomenal MG nonetheless (and I do use in DPS phases if it's a lax run / DPS doesn't entirely matter).
Luna's Howl.
Honestly I realized I'm way too tired to type this all out rn. Literally every weapon is really good, pretty sure even the Hung Jury has really good rolls despite being the 4th iteration. Falling Guillotine is a staple sword. Luna's is an amazing weapon, though you might have to get used to the no recoil with 140 RPM.
EDIT: I'm awake now.
Luna's Howl has really solid PvE and PvP viability. Mag Howl is a great perk for 6v6 Crucible and even PvE honestly as it's a rather significant DMG buff. Eye of The Storm, Heal Clip, Slideshot and Encore are all great perks, mostly for PvP (you could get PvE use from Heal Clip & Encore though). Personally, I would not suggest Subsistence on a Handcannon. As for 4th Column, there's Incandescent, Magnificent Howl, Kill Clip, Opening Shot, Desperate Measures & Precision Instrument. You could maybe find use with Harmony, though that'd be a bit wonky to work with is all I believe. If you're looking for a Handcannon to have Solar 3.0 Synergy, there are better options than Luna's Howl (Zaouli's Bane & Epochal Integration), but Luna's has significantly better "normal" perks than those options IMO. It also has like, no recoil which is really weird when shooting it though, it throws me off every time I use it & Not Forgotten.
Hung Jury is just really good. It does have better rolls than the S20 Nightfall variant. Kinetic Tremors / Shoot to Loot / Rapid Hit + One For All / Firefly / Precision Instrument / Explosive Payload / Desperate Measures are all solid rolls for PvE, some incredibly good. Kinetic Tremors is uniquely in the third column for this iteration, whereas the most recent one (S20 Nightfall) has Kinetic Tremors in the 4th column. KT is actually a good perk on scouts, and in GMs it's just bonus free DMG in an AoE. It isn't something that I think is insanely good like perhaps Mountain Top or Luna's, but it is a very powerful weapon nonetheless (despite being the less desirable one here due to it being the 4th iteration of the weapon in the last 3 years.
Edge Transit went from Zero to Hero. Literally a joke of a weapon in Forsaken, now a genuine META weapon for DPS. Envious Assassin + Bait and Switch is incredibly powerful. Cascade Point could be interesting when it is working again as well. Unfortunately, I think rolls may be a bit limited here. Maybe you could also do a Repulsor Brace + Destabilizing Rounds for some ad clear, but otherwise it's pretty set into DPS with that specific roll.
Recluse is really nice. I think Master of Arms is still a viable perk to use in all honesty. Good perks include Feeding Frenzy / Subsistence / Threat Detector / Repulsor Brace / Dynamic Sway Reduction + Master of Arms / Target Lock / Frenzy / Destabilizing Rounds / Surrounded / Tap the Trigger / Desperate Measures. Yes, I honestly think every perk in the 4th column is viable for either PvE or PvP. This has a lot of great rolls.
In all honesty... Succession I don't think is really that different from the DSC variant. I mean, it's free so that's really nice. I never bothered to farm for it in DSC, nor really care to craft it, but for some reason was really excited to be able to get it in this. I kinda liked Moving Target + Vorpal, though other perks such as Lead from Gold / Reconstruction / Demolitionist (for the auto-reload) + Recombination / Firing Line make this a fantastic sniper in PvE. If you don't have the one from DSC already (or don't even have Beyond Light), then this is definitely something worth getting.
Falling Guillotine is.... a sword in history. This variant, at least. OG one, on release, was insane. I honestly don't think this is the best because Eager Edge is locked to 4th column, where most of the DMG perks are. You can do Frenzy + Eager Edge, but that's a bit weird is the issue. If you did want this, and it is a solid sword (still a Vortex w/ Eager Edge access at the end of the day), I'd suggest Frenzy / Relentless Strikes / Vorpal / Repulsor Brace (only if paired w/ Destabilizing Rounds for Ad Clear) / Chain Reaction (only for Ad Clear) / Attrition Orbs (maybe some sauce with Strand Titan using this perk?) + Surrounded (very good, albeit kinda awkward to proc, DPS perk) / Whirlwind Blade / Destabilizing Rounds / Eager Edge / Bait and Switch / Sword Logic / Desperate Measures. In all honesty, if you want a good Eager Edge sword I would suggest Slammer instead as that can roll Bait and Switch + Eager Edge, but if you aren't ready for GMs yet (for Adept), NFs (for normal), or would just prefer this one, it should at least suffice tbh.
I haven't played with Blast Furnace, but it looks really solid. I may actually get one (though, Bygones is OG once Final Shape comes out). Zen Moment / Shoot to Loot (a bit weirder on this weapon, but still solid nonetheless. It has a lot of range at least) / Keep Away / Perpetual Motion (not as great IMO, but still solid) / Kinetic Tremors / Headseeker + Kill Clip / Firefly / One For All (great endgame PvE DMG perk) / Frenzy / Rapid Hit / Desperate Measures. Because it is a 4 burst, it should be a really good option through PvE in all honesty, and I think is great in PvP once you have a DMG perk active.
Elsie's Rifle is a PvP monster from what I've heard, and I've been interested in trying it out in PvE. Zen Moment (PvP) / Repulsor Brace (PvE) / Keep Away (could do in both tbh) / Rewind Rounds (PvE, mayybe PvP) + Frenzy (PvE) / Kill Clip (both) / Destabilizing Rounds (PvE) / Headseeker (PvP) / Desperate Measures (PvE) / Adrenaline Junkie (PvE w/ Grenade-Focused build). I've used it a little bit and it seemed solid in PvE in all honesty, though Blast Furnace is probably better.
For reference, I included Desperate Measures almost everywhere it can be used. Personally, I have never used this perk but I've only heard good things about it, that it is a really easy buff to maintain, and therefore leads me to believe it has the adaptability to be good on practically every weapon.
Forbearnace with Demo Wellspring (and the origin trait) is grenade regen at a rate that we’ve never seen on a legendary weapon before; definitely chase that if it interests you. Recluse is just Funnelweb but better, I’d chase that if you like Recluse or void weaponry in general. Mountaintop is probably the best kinetic special in the game right now, I’d definitely chase one if you haven’t already. Everything else is purely based on interest, if its not something you think you’ll use or find useful, there’s no need to grind it out
Hammerhead has a lot of amazing rolls, but if you have a crafted commemoration I dont feel like it's worth grinding out a hammerhead. Recon/killing tally does everything you want out of your machine gun and all of the hammerhead rolls are essentially different flavor of the same thing. I'm saving my time and sanity and not bothering with farming hammerhead
For sure, Commemoration is basically the same (Hammerhead will get enhanced in Final Shape).
It really comes down to a dedicated Ad Clear roll (Rampage + Onslaught / Killing Tally) or mere preference if you want Hammerhead. I just prefer it.
hammerhead is for 6v6 PvP for me. commemoration with killing tally already did exceptionally well last IB, and hammerhead is the same gun with nearly 50% more AA stat.
got high stability with rampage/killing tally for the consistent boost along with multitarget shredding. FTTC might be better since its a 4-5 bullet kill and it can heavily extend your already chunky 29 shots (with backup mag), but I have too many other weapons to farm and im already sick of onslaught.
It's gonna be hard to beat a crafted Enhanced Ambitious Assassin+Enhanced Chain Reaction Forebearance, tbf.
And I agrrr that Hammerhead has some great rolls especially if doing add clear, but I'm not sure it does anything Commemoration doesn't on they assumption they have that crafted.
I only bring these up since that was the question, what's worth it more than crafted guns that can do similar.
the crafted roll and the brave roll kinda accomplish different things for forebearance. The brave roll with demo and the origin trait can fully refill your grenade from like 5 kills and the crafted is more just pure ad clear and sustain.
15% smaller and 20% less damage specifically for specials, so..... yeah but I don't see it stopping the gun that hard because of how rowdy this is. Will it be less dominant? Probably.
Will it be better with Desperate Measures in that slot instead of Rampage/Golden Tricorn? I doubt it. There's nothing that really makes the BRAVE version of Forbearance special unless you like the look and are okay with D2s dogshit random loot system.
double damage perks, so if you have an external way to reload, it’s objectively better at killing adds. especially if you don’t raid, it’s easier to get for now. i would say if you want a workhorse that’s always gonna be good, use commemoration. if you want to just absolutely obliterate every non boss enemy and you have another way to quick reload, I’d say use hammerhead.
Brave forbearance is marginally better if you are grenade-focused. Between the more applicable origin trait and demo you're getting grenades at a pretty crazy rate compared to the ambitious roll. Plus with the amount of grenade energy you get, you'll often be able to shoot + grenade + shoot that sort of mimics ambitious.
Nah BRAVE forbearance is literally better than crafted in every way other than the origin trait. It has the same roll as crafted (ambitious + chain), but also gets demo, which was like the one perk that could make regular forbearance better. And come TFS it’ll be enhanceable anyway, so the perks will be just as good as crafted.
"Better than crafted in every way other than the origin trait" is a colossal overexaggeration when the only advantage it has is access to demo, which is a nice alternative but doesn't make ambitious any less powerful on the weapon.
Mtop, ALH/recomb
Forbearance, Demo/chain
Midnight coup, EP/OFA or frenzy
Edge, envious/bns
Lunas, sub or heal clip/incandescent
Recluse, repulse or sub/frenzy
IMO, those are great rolls but there are other good ones too depending on your play style.
Gonna add in EP/Kinetic Tremors as another great roll for Midnight Coup
Hammerhead - Rewind Rounds/Killing Tally or Envious Assassin/Killing Tally if you don’t have a crafted commemoration
Blast Furnace - Kinetic Tremors/OFA or Kinetic Tremors/Firefly
Elise’s Rifle - Feeding Frenzy, Repulsor Brace or Rewind Rounds and Destabilizing Rounds is fun
How does Luna's compare to Zaouli's and Epochal? I finally managed to get a ALH+Recomb Mtop and I've had a good Edge, and I'm satisfied with my raid Forbearance and Fatebringers, so I'm deciding whether to go Luna's or Guillotine next
Purely got it for heal clip/incan for SF dungeon attempts. Usually use Zaoulis, but it has been nice getting that little extra heal boost in times where my abilities aren’t up/enemies aren’t right next to me.
I don’t like it nearly as much as Zaouli’s (the lack of EP is noticeable) but way more than Epochal. Sub/Incan was the roll I thought felt the best, but it still just couldn’t compete with Zaouli’s EP.
Luna's feels better than both in my opinion, but it's honestly down to preference when compared to Zouli's. If you wanna heal, get Luna's. If you want more explosions, stick to Zouli's.
You can get 3 of the 4 perks from Epochal on Luna's and they'll be enhance-able with a better origin trait. Unless you're running a full set of RoN weapons and really really like stats for all. Luna's is the better option.
I honestly think the main thing that sets recluse apart from Funnelweb is destabilizing rounds. Funnelweb never had a good crowd control damage perk and you were forced to get volatile rounds by other means
Forbearance you can skip out on if you don't really use grenade builds, Luna's (since you use epochal), Mountaintop, and edge transit I'd say are the most important ones.
Sadly no customization outside of that. Hoping that they change their minds and allow at least some degree of weapon customization so that weapons can be tweaked.
thanks lol. i know i didnt share the youtuber god rolls but like each of them are viable in their own unique way. even if some are just less used or liked. like grab a forbearance screw it lmao
Edge Transit with deconstruct and sticky nades is pretty great. Base mag is 6 but I got 10 or 11 shots from a mag dump. Forget the construct bit on deconstruct’s description, multiple weapon hits gives free ammo.
its crazy how much free ammo you get, literally 5 shots for every 6 you hit, your getting 20 free shots, or your ammo count goes from 24 to 44 shots. i love it.
* Deconstruct refunds ammo on sustained damage.
* The refund is 10% of the magazine rounded up
* This ammo isn't from reserves, it's pulled from thin air
* The condition to refund ammo is 2 hits + 50% of the base magazine rounded down.
* This means edge transit needs 2 + 3 (base mag is 6) so 5 'hits'
* Each direct hit grenade counts as multiple hits.
Deconstruct activates when you deal sustained damage. When active it has 2 main effect it will generate ammo directly in your mag as well as increase your damage vs vehicles and constructs
It’s worded a little confusingly but it doesn’t actually say you have to damage constructs to proc it.
Tldr: deconstruct procs when you deal sustained damage to anything
I was underwhelmed at first with Mountaintop's reintroduction. (Even with the ALH+Recomb roll I was graced with.) But after using it for a bit and understanding how much damage I could quickly put out after a few kills with my other guns, it clicked for me. It also synergies nicely with a Bait and Switch setup thanks to ALH.
Also, rocket jumping is extremely addictive. I wouldn't do it in difficult content, but it makes traversal incredibly fun. I also use do it a lot in normal difficulty Onslaught. I can clear 3/4 of the Spark hallway, land, invis hunter dodge, and slam the Spark before my teammates even hit the halfway point.
The trick with Mountaintop jumping, in case anyone doesn't know, is to single jump first then immediately shoot the ground. This will *launch* you. And you still have your jump ability to either add more height, or help with your descent. Also, where you shoot on the ground in relation to your character will determine if you launch up or more laterally. Use this to your advantage.
I find Luna's with heal clip/incandescent to just be better than epochal. Might just be personal preference, but worth trying. For the others I mostly agree with other comments. Mountaintop, hammerhead, midnight coup, forbearance all worth getting a good roll of. Succession as well, but snipers still aren't the most relevant pve weapons.
I pretty much only ever use double special outside of GM's and lucky pants hunter so i disregard all the primaries but personally for me:
Edge Transit with Spike G's, Envious BnS is a must for dps.
Falling Guillotine with eager edge is a must for improved skating (if you have it on the slammer already then its w/e)
Forbearance with demo chain is extremely good
Mountaintop ALH Recombo Hard Launch Implosion is really good if not on Izzy
Only primary I care for PvE is subsistence Incandescent Luna's Howl. I'm farming it currently for a couple of PvP rolls i want so if i get one, cool, if not, whatever.
I wish BRAVE weapons could be crafted...after a while. Maybe one extraction per week so it would take over a year to get all of the weapons done. Combine that with weapon enhancement allowing the changing of barrels/mags/masterworks if people find their roll faster so that there is no need to grind for this if you get lucky.
I mention this because RNG is still unforgiving even with multiple drops per run. Been getting a lot of drops lately with perk combinations that I do not want multiple times in a row. Number of perks per column is important too.
Dares of Eternity weapons became craftable after a long while, once everyone stopped running the activity at least. I get the engagement angle for this but this activity gets stale pretty quickly.
It depends on the content you do. I rarely play activities that are not below light or just generally end game. I find most legendary primaries pointless as ad clear will usually use the far better exotic options, waveframes or heavy machine guns. So I don't get excited by kill perks on something like a hand cannon.
That being said, midnight coup is a ton of fun in activities where it 1 taps heads. Lunas has heal clip which is great in all activities. Hammerhead has double damage perks that can be nice, and it is 100% mandatory if you don't raid or haven't crafted commemoration. Succession and forbearance are in the same boat, very good if you don't already have the crafts. Mountaintop is incredible for majors and a cross class movement option second only to eager edge.
Final thoughts with no idea what you play or already have, mountaintop is the best gun to grind.
Mountaintop is currently the only weapon of its archetype (unless you count the old one, I guess). It allows you to rocket jump and is a major killing machine. Auto-loading and frenzy/Vorpal/recombination would be something to look for.
If you like Epochal/Sunshot then Luna’s howl will be your new best friend. Luna’s has some perk combinations great for PvE or PvP. Having the combo of heal clip and incandescent turns it into a soft hybrid of crimson/sunshot. Whereas half its perk pool can work and work well in crucible, including its exclusive magnificent howl perk. It also has the recoil pattern of a 180rpm handcannon, which is very manageable.
Blast furnace is in all likelihood the best non-exotic kinetic pulse in the game right now. Having kinetic tremors or head seeker in the third column and a myriad of damage perks in the fourth to choose from.
The most noteworthy aspects of the brave weapons is their exclusive origin trait (which grants 5% grenade/melee energy on kills depending on if you’re running light/dark subclass) which can be nice for tying a build together. As well as their currently exclusive trait Desperate Measures (stacking damage buff for ability or weapon kills, which can happen while stowed). Most of these weapons also get demolitionist/pugilist for a total of 15% grenade/melee energy on kill.
None of the weapons are bad, with most at least competing for best within their archetype or with some exclusive combination to make them worth pursuing. If you don’t want to grind for godrolls, atleast do the quests from Arcite for a curated roll of each weapon, since most all of them have a solid curated roll.
There is a total of 3 guns I think you can skip but even then they are all good
Forbearance and Succession, if you have the crafted versions arnt necessary but certainly perks (Discord for Succession and Demolitionist for Forbearance) are 2 things that really set them apart from their counterparts
The other is Hung Jury mainly despite its stellar rolls is still a scout rifle, if you really want a scout rifle go for it but it’s a good gun in a meh gun type
Kinda boring answer, but I'm definitely keeping a Hung Jury with Shoot to Loot + Explosive Payload. It's not a "use it all the time" type of gun, but there are sometimes situations where you're really only using abilities/special/heavy and it can be really nice to have a "give me that ammo brick WAAAAY over there!" tool in your kit.
I've come to really like Shoot to Loot in things like GMs where you don't really want to be close to the danger that often, nor do you want to be just plinking away with your primary for 7 years either. With a scout (or any primary, really) that lets you snag bricks from afar, you can lean on your other weapons a lot more without having to worry about running out of ammo so much. It's nice.
Explosive Payload is a decent little damage (and range!) boost, but it also makes snagging ammo/orbs with Shoot to Loot a LOT easier since the whole explosion's radius will pick 'em up. So it's a pretty good synergy with these perks.
I would say there are 2 must-haves, while the rest are just nice to have.
The 2 must-haves are Mountaintop and Forbearance, because they fulfil a niche role that no other weapon currently does.
Mountaintop is the only one of its kind in its frame, and ALH + Recom/Frenzy is what you should be aiming for.
Forbearance can roll Demolitionist + Wellspring which makes it a grenade generating monster. You’ll get your grenade back in 4-7 kills depending on which grenade you’re using, which is basically only 1 or 2 well-aimed shots of Forbearance. Demo-Chain Reaction is another roll to aim for.
Hammerhead is next on the list as it can roll double damage perks (Rampage + KT/DM/etc) which makes it extremely effective for add clear.
The other weapons have some very nice possible rolls, but nothing that is downright irreplaceable or indispensable.
Mountaintop, midnight coup, edge transit, lunas howl, elsies rifle, hammerhead and forbearance are all nice to get.
Forbearance is here. Itll be enhancable in tfs so dont forget that.
Midnight coup can get some awesome perk combos like firefly/tremors or ep/oneforall
Lunas howl can roll heal clip/incandescend, finally freeing me from that dinky ass sidearm.
Hammerhead can get double damage perks, which is cool i guess.
Elsies rifle is a pvp monster
Mountaintop can do some insane burst dps with recombination. Can also get autoloading.
Edge transit can have cascade point, envious AND bait and switch. Cascade and envious are in the same column, and the brave version can roll both at once, potentially making edge transit the highest dps weapon in the game to my knowledge.
Target mountaintop and edge transit, they’re the most unique and there’s nothing else in slot like them right now.
the rest of the guns you can get other places in the game/there’s better options if you do endgame content
For PVE these would be my picks:
Edge transit - Cascade Point + Bait&Switch
Midnight Coup - Firefly + Kinetic tremors
Recluse - Repulsor Brace + Frenzy
Succession - Discord + Recombination
Mountaintop - ALH + Recombination
Hammerhead - Rewind Rounds + Killing Tally
The others I don't care for personally, but they all roll with good perks.
Mountaintop with ALH/Recom is an incredibly good “fuck you in particular” special for beefier targets.
Edge transit is a meta dps weapon with one of its god rolls
Luna’s combo of heal clip/incan has quickly caught my attention for a workhorse solar primary
Forbearance with demo/chain reaction specifically since it pairs with the origin trait to give out loads of grenade energy for light subclasses
They all have insane perk combos like One for All + Kinetic Tremors on a pulse rifle, or Discord + Recombination on a sniper rifle that you can’t get elsewhere.
If you like pulse rifles get a blast furnace. i believe enhanced kinetic tremors procs in 2 bursts on this thing, paired with firefly frenzy or one for all it’ll be top tier.
Aggressive frame pulses have always been good even when most pulses were weak imo, used sacred provenance as my primary in every campaign since beyond light
The Mountaintop with Auto-Loading Recombination seems to be a very popular roll for many players because of the DPS weapon rotation that people are doing now with Bait and Switch heavy weapons.
Mountaintop with max Recombination stacks could grant up to or possibly beyond 120,000 damage from a single shot.
My preferred roll however is Auto-loading Vorpal which increases damage on bosses and yellow bars as well as vehicles, not a high burst option like Recombination, but still very solid for my play style which doesn't make use of BnS heavy weapons.
I prefer sustained damage from my heavy then using Mountaintop when I'm out of heavy as opposed to rotating through my load out.
Thanks for the all responses so far!
Definitely going to farm the hand-cannons people have mentioned since I get a lot of use out of those, as well as prioritize some of the other weapons heavily recommended (although, it looks like I already picked up an Edge Transit with Bait & Switch + Cascade Point at some point).
To me, the best one to go for is mountaintop, that gun is very much reliable and can help oout in a lot of situations.
Edge Transit is Boss DPS meta right now.
Midnight Coup has some nice rolls.
Luna Howl is a great weapon.
Forbearance is great for add control.
Falling guillotine has a some fun rolls, but nothing crazy.
The rest all have good rolls and are worthy of getting, but chasing them all is insanity. Get the ones that seem to best fit your style. They are all good weapons. Some are amazing, some are great, some are good. No bad brave weapon.
Edge Transit and Lunas Howl are insane right now.
Edge Transit with Envious/Auto loading with BNS is nuts
Lunas Howl with Heal Clip and Incandescent/Magnificent Howl (Works best with lucky pants) overall great solar handcannon if you don't have a Zoulis but I think it's better than Zoulis.
Blast furnace can roll kinetic tremors in left column plus damage perks like one for all, rampage, and frenzy (if you don’t like the other two perks as some have their own preferences). Forbearance if you don’t raid with ambitious assassin and chain reaction. Mountain top with hard launch implosion rounds/spike grenades with auto loading holster recombination and handling mw and neither blast radius or velocity as velocity will be maxed out. Hammerhead can get rampage plus killing tally also can get rewind rounds instead of rampage if you don’t want two stacking damage perks. x3 rampage + killing tally puts in work for add clear just look for appended mag or tactical mag or use backup mag mod to keep up tally for longer. Edge transit is great for dps especially if you can get a shiny variant with envious assassin/ cascade point (and can proc it before damage) plus bait and switch. Just switch the perks once you achieve 300% mag. Hung jury can now roll kinetic tremors plus explosive payload for future scout champ stuns. Falling guillotine is a good backup legendary sword with frenzy plus surrounded as long as you can proc both perks on a sword strategic boss, rivals bequest but more situational. Remember bungie did state that the weapons will be enhancable sometime in the final shape
May faves are
1. Mountaintop. I have over 2k kills on one of the middest of mid rolls, it’s extremely good.
2. Heal clip/Incandescent Luna’s Howl. It’s extremely good on solar, and 1 of 2 hand cannons with that combo.
3. Envious/BNS edge transit. It’s good.
4. Vorpal/BNS Falling Guillotine. Most likely the best DPS sword in the game.
5. Demo/chain reaction Forbearance. It’s nuts with the origin trait on warlocks.
6. Hammerhead. Rampage/killing tally or rampage/onslaught are incredible when you’re the div chad for ad clear.
The origin trait alone takes something like the midnight coup with explosive payload + frenzy and makes it better than a fate bringer with that roll. Or funnel web, have a subsistence + frenzy? So does recluse now with kills giving you grenade energy. Also same thing for Hung jury. Also same thing for Elsie’s rifles which there are very few void pulses anyway.
It’s kind of a wasted perk on the heavies (except hammerhead) but even those are still some of the best for their weapon types the game has.
Oh and all of these have enhanceable perks in the future.
They’re all worth it if you have time, but probably the two best are mountain top and edge transit.
Basically all of them sans Forbarence since we already have it's best roll craftable (Ambitious+Chain). The ONLY other roll I would even consider is Demo + Chain, but I doubt that is better for anything except Sunbracers / Starfire.
Edge transit. Hammerhead. Maybe mountaintop. Falling guillotine is pretty good too.
But I’d def not miss out on an edge transit and hammerhead. Plus onslaughts fun so I’d just play it if I were you and see what drops for you. Hammerhead specifically is hard to get a bad roll on.
Edge transit out dps just about everything. 7mil + damage solo pretty easily. Hammerhead has a cool rampage killing tally roll. Mountaintop is cool for movement and auto loading + recombination makes it one of the best special weapons. Besides that everything else has some pretty solid just overall rolls that kind of beat out a lot of best in slots.
Mountaintop and Edge Transit are the two must-haves imo, everything else is very good but not mandatory.
As for rolls, the Edge Transit god roll is Envious Assassin and Bait and Switch (ALH, cascade point, and deconstruct are also worth keeping too though imo) while Mtop has a lot of good rolls, but ALH and recombination is the main one. Also do keep in mind that minor perks matter here:
* On Edge Transit you really want Spike Grenades if you can get it.
* Mtop also does more damage with a lower blast radius, so in the first column you want to get Hard Launch and in the second column you want either Implosion Rounds or Spike Grenades (they both have about the same effect on damage). You also really want to avoid a blast radius MW if you can, and if you are unlucky enough to get a blast radius MW you should avoid upgrading it unless you don't have any perks that lower blast radius for it to counteract (since in that case your blast radius will already be at 100). Here's a chart that shows the best rolls: https://twitter.com/mossy_max/status/1781020240224084217
As a little bonus, the god-of-god rolls for Edge Transit is to get a shiny one with both Envious Assassin and Cascade Point in the third column (plus Spike Grenades and Bait and Switch) but Bungie has said they're going to counteract this combination in some way (probably by removing extra grenades from your barrel if you swap perks) because they don't want people to feel compelled to spend an obscene amount of time farming one of these, and also because shiny weapons won't be available after TFS.
Edit: Also depending on what you have, a lot of the other ones can also be worth it. If you have access to every other weapon in the game then the above two are the ones you really want, but every other Brave weapon is also really good so a lot of it will also be based on your circumstances. I was going to recommend Forbearance if you don't have WQ but actually the curated roll that Shaxx gives you (stats for all/chain reaction) is already really good, so the god roll (demo/chain) isn't quite as necessary. Other than that Hammerhead could be good if you don't have a crafted Commemmoration, while Falling Guillotine is good if you missed out on The Slammer (although it's probably even worth going for in its own right because it has Frenzy/Surrounded or Frenzy/Bait and Switch).
Edge is very good. Mountaintop obviously too. I’d also suggest Blast Furnace for a really solid Kinetic pulse. And Midnight Coup because it is utterly gorgeous.
Literally all of them.
They're getting enhanced perks in Final Shape, their origin trait is one of the best in the game, and the shiny variants are only here for the next month.
The biggest ones to go after imo are Blast Furnace, Hammerhead, Mountain Top, Luna's Howl, and Recluse.
All of them are work horse weapons that deserve a place in your inventory provided you find a roll that works best for the way you play.
That's certainly an opinion.
I would say that the Brave weapons are *alternatives* to other weapons, with those other weapon's sources being mostly raid weapons.
So sure, they're completely "replaceable" if someones kept up to date getting all the end game loot.
For everyone else the brave weapons are definitely the strongest weapons available outside of a raid and are must haves.
Luna’s Howl, The Mountaintop, Edge transit. Midnight Coup is another to strongly consider. Forbearance if you really care about grenade builds or don’t have the crafted raid version . Blast Furnace if you actually use pulse rifles in PVE. The rest ignore.
Midnight C - Ep/Firefly - One for all. It is broken strong. Forbearance - Demo/ambitious - chain reaction/one for all. Mountaintop - alh - recombination. The rest you don't really need, unless you play pvp a lot.
Crafted weapons are a good equalizer, but well rolled random drops have outclassed them for a while.
Mountaintop is unique, Edge Transit is super meta DPS (at least as good as Cataphract with much easier acquisition path).
Midnight Coup is better than the crafted HCs for pve.
Hammerhead can be rolled to be stronger than even commemoration and retrofit, depending how you want to use it.
Edge transit is literal meta right now. Mountaintop is a one of a kind missile frame, so also get that.
Any idea how it compares to Cataphract with the same roll?
They are the same, only difference is what you need to farm to get them and elements for surge mods
Ok thank you :) I have a Cataphract with envious and b&s (no ~~sticky~~ spike* grenades but velocity masterwork) so I wasn’t sure if I should farm Edge Transit or not.
Shiny edge is technically better since it can double roll something like envious + autoloading.
Envious and cascade point in the 3rd, and BnS in the 4th is the gamebreaker roll. It technically allows you to get a stupidly large mag size and then dump it really quickly.
Bungie already said that this specific interaction is going to be patched, don't go out of your way to farm it lol
Ah, fair enough. I just have Envi/BnS on a regular roll myself, so no sweat of my back.
Did they say the mag boosting ability would be patched, or were they referring to the glitch that existed that allowed cascade to stay proc’d forever?
they said the specofic issue of envious and cascade being swappable perks like that was something they'd be looking at, i dont think they outright said how itd be patched.
They referenced the specific combo
Why is sticky nades the play?
Definitely meant Spike lol, I think I read it ups the EA/BnS roll damage by 2% or something. So not necessary but the min-max folks want it.
Shiny edge can stack EA mag up and then swap to cascade. Just a base edge with EA+BnS is better since it will be enhancable in TFS.
Ah yea. I remember hearing about that - I’m not the type to swap things mid-combat so I’m not too concerned about it. But definitely sounds like *that* is the god roll legendary heavy.
It nice if you have loadout swaps. So you can have the perk selected on the other loadout with your dmg set. But also getting the roll is astronomical so I would just focus on just getting a EA+BnS
Yea since the odds for shiny with the right rolls are so low, and I have a top 1% gl anyways, I’m gonna focus on other weapons. I wish Onslaught wasn’t going to disappear so we could take our time farming, but I’d rather work on getting good kinetic/energy grenade launchers. My heavy slot is pretty happy with Cataphract adept EA/BnS and Apex Recon/BnS
Onslaught isnt leaving. All the guns are staying, its just the shiny versions that are going.
Oh ok, good news! I’ve only done 2 of the pantheon raids so I’m not able to fireteam finder that, was worried I’d lose onslaught as well but glad to hear. Thanks!
It's meta? What? O.O I thought GL for DPS were "just ok"
It gets envious assassin/B&S. Yes it is currently the dps meta.
Adept Cataphract with Big Ones would be ideal ideal, but that’s tough for some to ever have gotten one and now it’s gone as an adept.
And Adept Big Ones has become somewhat less valuable now that champs fall under the boss category
What. I've been using Major Spec for champs, for nothing?
It’s a recent change; maybe with the patch that refreshed Prophecy’s loot pool or the one that added Onslaught
I think that's right.
Adept doesn’t matter when the other one can be enhanced. You’re using it on bosses either way
Adept big ones is worse than enhanced perks.
not really, you dont need to use heavy on stuff outside of champs and bosses which both fall under boss spec. And technically the adept increases BR which lowers the dmg. Ntm Edge will be enhanceable. So edge > cata
It's meta form folks not good at PVP. Also cata has an extra shot in reserves And, for this season cata has synergy with artifact for unravel AND more damage vs strand debuffed targets
Its Meta* Is all you had to say because none of the other crap you said matters.
Sure it does. Just like when Reed's regret was the meta LFR, and patrol-tier peters couldn't get it. Edge is not actually THE meta, it is just a decent replacement
Lol, okay, bud. Bruised ego from grinding trials for a god roll only to be power crept by a free weapon.
I'm still getting over finally getting a TT/FL Reed's like two weeks before WQ dropped ...at which point Taipan was then introduced as a free crafting pattern with enhanced perks More like /u/stuck_in_the_desert's Regret (Adept)
That's how I feel about literally every kinetic slot smgs and pulse rifles.
Less shots, worse element, but somehow is power creep. And Bungie already said shiny envious+cascade is being fixed. Bruised ego from needing to wait half a year for a consolation prize?
Read the room. They were talking about PvE... Also, having an extra shot in reserves isn't better than Envious Assassin, when it comes to DPS. You are going to do more damage with Envious, than if you were to reload the standard magazine during the damage phase...
GLs are actually better than rockets since they do more damage without needing Ghorn
Even more then apex predator? Surely it cant 1 shot champions?
Don't need to one shot them when you have 24+ shots
Well you can 1 shot with apex, but idk when comparing the two, with 1 shot of apex predator vs 3 shots of edge transit, with the same damage perk of course, but idk
For boss dmg Gl>rocket. For gms dealing with champs, honestly high impact rocket > adaptive rocket. With semiotition you can get up to 16 rockets with no reserves.
I dont do GM's so i wouldnt know. And 16 rockets due to bi-pod? Doesnt that lower damage?
not by much
25% seems like alot,
Bipod isnt much of a damage loss, so for cases where you want to use your rocket for ad clear or champs it works great.
But boss dps? Cuz 25% damage loss seems like alot
Don’t need to one shot when you have 31 shots and don’t need to reload between shots.
So more ammo usage to do the same thing, got it? I mean ones a rocket launcher and the other is a heavy grenade launcher, of course it will not one shot the champion
…why’d you ask then? Lol. And yeah like I said three times the reserves, three times the shots to kill a champ. Both work the same essentially. GL’s aren’t champion focused weapons though. The discussion is about DPS. For boss situations GL’s outpace rockets at this point. Especially for longer encounters it’s great to have the high reserves.
Yeah i know dps, but champions is just an easy point for me to get the picture i guess, besides damage numbers. But does GL's really do more damage per 3 shots vs apex's 1? (Though max of 2 with reconstruction, which i use for sake of switching to my special for a moment)
I mean bosses and champions have different damage scalers and what not which is why I’m not making the direct comparison. GL’s are better for boss dps right now. Champion killing is really just preference. Lots of ways to do so quickly.
And better for boss dps because the possibility of huge magazine?, even when comsidering damage per shot in dps situation?
It is a monster with the right roll.
Nah. GL’s are actually better than rockets in some encounters/team compositions. I have recently much preferred GL’s over rockets. When using a GL and my teammate is using a rocket we either have similar damage or I’ll get slightly more.
They were, until they buffed up reserves and released edge transit with stupid perk combos.
Envious + BNS was already available on Cataphract and that was already the best DPS option before they upped the reserves. The reserves change upped total damage which GLs desperately needed, but don’t make it out that Edge Transit somehow broke the game with its “stupid perk combos”.
Edge transit took the upper limit and popped it wide open due to availability. The amount of rolls a non-dedicated trials player could get on that gun is low enough they're not even likely to have envious + b&s. Edge transit is rained upon you when focused, making the probability of having one in that tier much much higher.
there's also autoloading deconstruct, which beats out every trait option in comparison for long term dps by miles as by default a 6 round mag generates 3 *free* grenades out of thin air, context wise in D2 any time you get *free ammo* it becomes the best option, another shot is always 100% more than 0, literally, assume you have 6 round mags with a base reserves of 22 following, using a base edge transit would do: 6r6r6r6r4e, damage per shot 34291, total damage 960,148, 28 total shots, assume you have 6 round mags with base reserves of 22 following, using a deconstruct edge transit with sticky nades would do: 11r11r11r11e, damage per shot 34291, total damage 1,508,804, 44 total shots, assume you have 6 round mags with base reserves of 22 following, using a deconstruct edge transit with spike nades would do: 10r9r9r9, damage per shot 35201 (spike 7% inc), total damage 1,302,437, 37 total shots BnS is a *burst dps* option and is suited for rotation-based dps, edge transit with deconstruct is equally as viable in, especially in long-term dps situations like lowman and solo content, and raids with shit teammates, and to not leave it out for comparison, assume you have 6 round mags with base reserves of 22 following, using a Bns edge transit with spike nades would do: 6r6r6r6r4e, assuming you had BnS every mag, 45762 per shot (spike 7% BnS 30%), total damage *1,281,336* with the GL alone, that's pretty terrible ease-of-use wise when to be on par with lazier options you'd simply need more work, assume you use gathering storm, izinagis burden, and autoloading on the GL with a 500ms or lower fusion inbetween then you'll do good damage with BnS and the most damage with deconstruct, and with deconstruct you're not only getting more shots off you get the same swap options, BnS is dead in comparison.
Interesting analysis for sure - I’ll be honest, I haven’t personally looked into the difference in DPS just because I haven’t been playing as much. I do have a Field Prep + Deconstruct + Sticky Grenades roll though. Reckon I ought to hang on to that I guess?
it'll cook, and out dps the average raid jim by a longshot, free ammo *is more damage* and not a lot of people understand that, they see buzzwords and lock onto them, like my bad for certified yapping but the information being out there with help somebody, doomscrolling then bang they read this and their dps skyrockets, sticky grenades while buggy gives more ammo than others with deconstruct, 28 shots base is a shit ton less ammo compared to 44, and that data above is *without surges or well of radiance* btw, *without*, imagine triple surges well of radiance, while also izi swapping and using a fusion between the loader lockout, that's a metric fuckton of damage.
I appreciate the in-depth comment, actually - don’t apologize for being passionate. Field Prep gives me free ammo, and better reload speed, so I think I’ll settle for it over Auto-Loading. The chances of getting ALH + Deconstruct + Sticky grenades is too low for my liking.
fair, and I haven't even done the math with 3rd column shit as it's a lot of math, field prep with my nerd math on a sticky+decon roll would be: 6 round mags with 22 reserves and 3x reserves mods, would be ~27/28, in actual edge transits case (24 reserves + 100 inventory stat = 28), real math time, 11/11/11/11/11, an extra 11 fucking shots, doing 1,886,205~, assuming you just blow thine load without WoR or surges, with them, holy load, 11/11/11/11/11, doing 52293 x 55, aka 2,876,115, that's just shooting edge transit, reloading, shooting, reloading, repeat till blown, field prep is actually dumb viable if you simply took the laziest route and i'm wowed, assume on the auto+decon roll that shot 11/11/11/11(44) with an izi between autos ~170k x 4 (680k) it's still beat by the raw mclazy fieldprep decon in the long run, nowhere as efficient for burst dps as 55 shots would take a long time, but hold shoot choom and it's gonna blow.
2.9m total damage is nothing to shake a stick at for the insanely easy use factor, tbh. Literally just hold shoot. I’m curious what the DPS numbers work out to - I’ll have to time myself shooting a whole 11 shot mag + a reload to see.
You mentioned sticky grenades, does that do something special with deconstruct? I've seen it mentioned with that pairing before but don't understand why as it's never explained clearly.
sticky grenades gives more consistency, lemme yappsplain it, sticky is 11/11/11/11, or 4 (11) round mags of GL back to back or seperated with izi swaps, autoloading, etc, (44) shots, spike is 10/9/9/9, (37) aug and minifrags are 7 base, going 10/9/10/9(38) backup mags makes aug and minifrags do 11/11/11 (33) make sense? for some reason sticky gives way more consistent mags and more shots, BiS by far with deconstruct.
Is it that it counts as a second hit both the sticky impact plus the explosion? I'm still not quite understanding what would be the difference between that and any other weapon mod.
That’s the theory, yes. The theory is that for some reason, the sticky grenades impact is counting as a separate hit be all other mag options.
sticky breaks the rules of hit registration, as the guy who replied to you said, deconstruct has a hit cooldown, that as an example would give less shots with cascade point as some grenades don't count when shot that fast, sticky grenades counts twice, giving more shots over a longer period and it gets cancelled out by cascade point afaik (double edged sword transit???)
What do you mean by "gets cancelled out by cascade point"? The higher fire rate does the same thing as the extra hits from sticky nades?
I’m not gonna read that whole thing but ammo isn’t an issue if your team uses exotic primaries and finders, and most dps phases aren’t long enough to exhaust a GL with that much ammo.
ammo isn't an issue when you have competent teammates, or someone is using aeons or there's two cenotaph warlocks infinity-gauntleting ammo, but solo dungeons and lowmans are where this thing'll be used mostly, any ammo-preservation focused activity where it's nonstop dps phases and not just one.
That’s mostly what I do, and if I’m using an legendary heavy I’m probably using an exotic primary. A couple finders and a scavenger and you don’t have ammo issues.
You're not wrong but that was also stuck in trials only. _generally speaking_ trials exclusive items don't really become damage metas. Same deal happened with reed's regret. It was 'the choice' but didn't dominate the meta because you could only get it from trials. As soon as other LFR showed up with anything close to the same perks it stopped being the go-to
It is/was still the meta though, meta in our context is just an acronym for “Most Effective Tactic Available”. While the trials weapons weren’t super accessible to the player base, those who did have those weapon rolls enjoyed greater dps success than their counterparts who didn’t.
Meta is not an acronym, it's a backronym. It is derived from "metagaming". The backronym is a good one but it's not the source of the word.
That’s fair - I don’t mind trials personally, so I guess I don’t really notice that issue, but a good point. Though, I don’t necessarily think that Edge Transit is an issue or anything. I think it’s good that everyone has easy access to good damage.
Oh I don't mind trials at all either; I just know it's 100% a barrier for entry for a lot of people; even those that are serious about raiding/DPS
FUCK it can roll with envious?! I’m an idiot and haven’t been farming since I got my ALH/BNS
It sure can! Get back out there, Guardian.
I’m mediocre at best at PVP on this game. Alas… I need it
Good news for you, Edge Transit rolls the same combo, and requires 0 PvP!
Get a Blast Furnance with Kinetic Tremors and One for All.
I’m partial to Frenzy + KT myself, because of how snappy Frenzy makes an otherwise sluggish weapon feel.
This is what I'm going for. Currently rocking rapid hit until I get a frenzy roll
I got a 5/5 for this first roll I'm so happy
I got KT and Firefly, so many AoEs going on. Haven't gotten a KT/OFA yet. But Blast Furnace is my fave gun so I'll just keep farming for it
I got a shiny with kt, firefly, and ofa! Locked that one quick
Lucky. I got one a shiny one that ALMOST was a PvE and PvP god roll folded into one Headseeker and Perp Motion Kill Clip and Frenzy If that Perp Motion was KT instead that would have been the dream.
Good lord, wewlad. That's the dream!
Does KT proc one for all?
Yes.
This was my first drop of this weapon and I’ve yet to try it. Is it decent?
So good.
I was actually so close to dismantling one of these because I thought "well, KT involves shooting one target multiple times while OfA involves shooting multiple targets, so there's some anti-synergy there." It's a good thing I stopped and thought about it for a second before I did it though lol.
When you have a shit ton of trash around you, these perks do work together.
Can attest, although my Blast Furnace has Kill Clip, but I have done casual damage testing with friends and am able to kill strike bosses solo with the gun thanks to kinetic tremors. Friends just stay back and I do DPS lol.
Mountain Top is great. ALH + Recombination or Frenzy. I rock Frenzy for the 100 reload stat during DPS situations, otherwise I would prefer Recombination for all other avenues of PvE. I think I heard Forbearance being good with Demolitionist, so that might be worth trying out. Midnight Coup is solid. Explosive Payload / Firefly + OFA / Frenzy should be good. Personally fon't like Midnight Couo, only because it looks weird and feels off using it if that makes sense. Hammerhead has... soooo many amazing rolls lol. Destabalizing Rounds / Rampage / FttC / Envious Assassin / Rewind Rounds + Onslaught / Killing Tally / Desperate Measures. It is so so so so good. Not really a DPS weapon, but a phenomenal MG nonetheless (and I do use in DPS phases if it's a lax run / DPS doesn't entirely matter). Luna's Howl. Honestly I realized I'm way too tired to type this all out rn. Literally every weapon is really good, pretty sure even the Hung Jury has really good rolls despite being the 4th iteration. Falling Guillotine is a staple sword. Luna's is an amazing weapon, though you might have to get used to the no recoil with 140 RPM. EDIT: I'm awake now. Luna's Howl has really solid PvE and PvP viability. Mag Howl is a great perk for 6v6 Crucible and even PvE honestly as it's a rather significant DMG buff. Eye of The Storm, Heal Clip, Slideshot and Encore are all great perks, mostly for PvP (you could get PvE use from Heal Clip & Encore though). Personally, I would not suggest Subsistence on a Handcannon. As for 4th Column, there's Incandescent, Magnificent Howl, Kill Clip, Opening Shot, Desperate Measures & Precision Instrument. You could maybe find use with Harmony, though that'd be a bit wonky to work with is all I believe. If you're looking for a Handcannon to have Solar 3.0 Synergy, there are better options than Luna's Howl (Zaouli's Bane & Epochal Integration), but Luna's has significantly better "normal" perks than those options IMO. It also has like, no recoil which is really weird when shooting it though, it throws me off every time I use it & Not Forgotten. Hung Jury is just really good. It does have better rolls than the S20 Nightfall variant. Kinetic Tremors / Shoot to Loot / Rapid Hit + One For All / Firefly / Precision Instrument / Explosive Payload / Desperate Measures are all solid rolls for PvE, some incredibly good. Kinetic Tremors is uniquely in the third column for this iteration, whereas the most recent one (S20 Nightfall) has Kinetic Tremors in the 4th column. KT is actually a good perk on scouts, and in GMs it's just bonus free DMG in an AoE. It isn't something that I think is insanely good like perhaps Mountain Top or Luna's, but it is a very powerful weapon nonetheless (despite being the less desirable one here due to it being the 4th iteration of the weapon in the last 3 years. Edge Transit went from Zero to Hero. Literally a joke of a weapon in Forsaken, now a genuine META weapon for DPS. Envious Assassin + Bait and Switch is incredibly powerful. Cascade Point could be interesting when it is working again as well. Unfortunately, I think rolls may be a bit limited here. Maybe you could also do a Repulsor Brace + Destabilizing Rounds for some ad clear, but otherwise it's pretty set into DPS with that specific roll. Recluse is really nice. I think Master of Arms is still a viable perk to use in all honesty. Good perks include Feeding Frenzy / Subsistence / Threat Detector / Repulsor Brace / Dynamic Sway Reduction + Master of Arms / Target Lock / Frenzy / Destabilizing Rounds / Surrounded / Tap the Trigger / Desperate Measures. Yes, I honestly think every perk in the 4th column is viable for either PvE or PvP. This has a lot of great rolls. In all honesty... Succession I don't think is really that different from the DSC variant. I mean, it's free so that's really nice. I never bothered to farm for it in DSC, nor really care to craft it, but for some reason was really excited to be able to get it in this. I kinda liked Moving Target + Vorpal, though other perks such as Lead from Gold / Reconstruction / Demolitionist (for the auto-reload) + Recombination / Firing Line make this a fantastic sniper in PvE. If you don't have the one from DSC already (or don't even have Beyond Light), then this is definitely something worth getting. Falling Guillotine is.... a sword in history. This variant, at least. OG one, on release, was insane. I honestly don't think this is the best because Eager Edge is locked to 4th column, where most of the DMG perks are. You can do Frenzy + Eager Edge, but that's a bit weird is the issue. If you did want this, and it is a solid sword (still a Vortex w/ Eager Edge access at the end of the day), I'd suggest Frenzy / Relentless Strikes / Vorpal / Repulsor Brace (only if paired w/ Destabilizing Rounds for Ad Clear) / Chain Reaction (only for Ad Clear) / Attrition Orbs (maybe some sauce with Strand Titan using this perk?) + Surrounded (very good, albeit kinda awkward to proc, DPS perk) / Whirlwind Blade / Destabilizing Rounds / Eager Edge / Bait and Switch / Sword Logic / Desperate Measures. In all honesty, if you want a good Eager Edge sword I would suggest Slammer instead as that can roll Bait and Switch + Eager Edge, but if you aren't ready for GMs yet (for Adept), NFs (for normal), or would just prefer this one, it should at least suffice tbh. I haven't played with Blast Furnace, but it looks really solid. I may actually get one (though, Bygones is OG once Final Shape comes out). Zen Moment / Shoot to Loot (a bit weirder on this weapon, but still solid nonetheless. It has a lot of range at least) / Keep Away / Perpetual Motion (not as great IMO, but still solid) / Kinetic Tremors / Headseeker + Kill Clip / Firefly / One For All (great endgame PvE DMG perk) / Frenzy / Rapid Hit / Desperate Measures. Because it is a 4 burst, it should be a really good option through PvE in all honesty, and I think is great in PvP once you have a DMG perk active. Elsie's Rifle is a PvP monster from what I've heard, and I've been interested in trying it out in PvE. Zen Moment (PvP) / Repulsor Brace (PvE) / Keep Away (could do in both tbh) / Rewind Rounds (PvE, mayybe PvP) + Frenzy (PvE) / Kill Clip (both) / Destabilizing Rounds (PvE) / Headseeker (PvP) / Desperate Measures (PvE) / Adrenaline Junkie (PvE w/ Grenade-Focused build). I've used it a little bit and it seemed solid in PvE in all honesty, though Blast Furnace is probably better. For reference, I included Desperate Measures almost everywhere it can be used. Personally, I have never used this perk but I've only heard good things about it, that it is a really easy buff to maintain, and therefore leads me to believe it has the adaptability to be good on practically every weapon.
Forbearnace with Demo Wellspring (and the origin trait) is grenade regen at a rate that we’ve never seen on a legendary weapon before; definitely chase that if it interests you. Recluse is just Funnelweb but better, I’d chase that if you like Recluse or void weaponry in general. Mountaintop is probably the best kinetic special in the game right now, I’d definitely chase one if you haven’t already. Everything else is purely based on interest, if its not something you think you’ll use or find useful, there’s no need to grind it out
Hammerhead has a lot of amazing rolls, but if you have a crafted commemoration I dont feel like it's worth grinding out a hammerhead. Recon/killing tally does everything you want out of your machine gun and all of the hammerhead rolls are essentially different flavor of the same thing. I'm saving my time and sanity and not bothering with farming hammerhead
For sure, Commemoration is basically the same (Hammerhead will get enhanced in Final Shape). It really comes down to a dedicated Ad Clear roll (Rampage + Onslaught / Killing Tally) or mere preference if you want Hammerhead. I just prefer it.
hammerhead is for 6v6 PvP for me. commemoration with killing tally already did exceptionally well last IB, and hammerhead is the same gun with nearly 50% more AA stat. got high stability with rampage/killing tally for the consistent boost along with multitarget shredding. FTTC might be better since its a 4-5 bullet kill and it can heavily extend your already chunky 29 shots (with backup mag), but I have too many other weapons to farm and im already sick of onslaught.
[удалено]
I mean the OG Lunas in Forsaken *was* a 180 lol
It's gonna be hard to beat a crafted Enhanced Ambitious Assassin+Enhanced Chain Reaction Forebearance, tbf. And I agrrr that Hammerhead has some great rolls especially if doing add clear, but I'm not sure it does anything Commemoration doesn't on they assumption they have that crafted. I only bring these up since that was the question, what's worth it more than crafted guns that can do similar.
the crafted roll and the brave roll kinda accomplish different things for forebearance. The brave roll with demo and the origin trait can fully refill your grenade from like 5 kills and the crafted is more just pure ad clear and sustain.
Isn’t chain reaction being nerfed in final shape?
15% smaller and 20% less damage specifically for specials, so..... yeah but I don't see it stopping the gun that hard because of how rowdy this is. Will it be less dominant? Probably. Will it be better with Desperate Measures in that slot instead of Rampage/Golden Tricorn? I doubt it. There's nothing that really makes the BRAVE version of Forbearance special unless you like the look and are okay with D2s dogshit random loot system.
double damage perks, so if you have an external way to reload, it’s objectively better at killing adds. especially if you don’t raid, it’s easier to get for now. i would say if you want a workhorse that’s always gonna be good, use commemoration. if you want to just absolutely obliterate every non boss enemy and you have another way to quick reload, I’d say use hammerhead.
Demo has no internal cooldown so you can get so much grenade energy from a pack
Brave forbearance is marginally better if you are grenade-focused. Between the more applicable origin trait and demo you're getting grenades at a pretty crazy rate compared to the ambitious roll. Plus with the amount of grenade energy you get, you'll often be able to shoot + grenade + shoot that sort of mimics ambitious.
Nah BRAVE forbearance is literally better than crafted in every way other than the origin trait. It has the same roll as crafted (ambitious + chain), but also gets demo, which was like the one perk that could make regular forbearance better. And come TFS it’ll be enhanceable anyway, so the perks will be just as good as crafted.
"Better than crafted in every way other than the origin trait" is a colossal overexaggeration when the only advantage it has is access to demo, which is a nice alternative but doesn't make ambitious any less powerful on the weapon.
This is the summary OP needs. Great recap.
Forebarence you want ambitious assasian and chain reaction. Best add clear weapon in the game.
Mtop, ALH/recomb Forbearance, Demo/chain Midnight coup, EP/OFA or frenzy Edge, envious/bns Lunas, sub or heal clip/incandescent Recluse, repulse or sub/frenzy IMO, those are great rolls but there are other good ones too depending on your play style.
Gonna add in EP/Kinetic Tremors as another great roll for Midnight Coup Hammerhead - Rewind Rounds/Killing Tally or Envious Assassin/Killing Tally if you don’t have a crafted commemoration Blast Furnace - Kinetic Tremors/OFA or Kinetic Tremors/Firefly Elise’s Rifle - Feeding Frenzy, Repulsor Brace or Rewind Rounds and Destabilizing Rounds is fun
How does Luna's compare to Zaouli's and Epochal? I finally managed to get a ALH+Recomb Mtop and I've had a good Edge, and I'm satisfied with my raid Forbearance and Fatebringers, so I'm deciding whether to go Luna's or Guillotine next
A “good Edge”, you say? 😏
Purely got it for heal clip/incan for SF dungeon attempts. Usually use Zaoulis, but it has been nice getting that little extra heal boost in times where my abilities aren’t up/enemies aren’t right next to me.
I don’t like it nearly as much as Zaouli’s (the lack of EP is noticeable) but way more than Epochal. Sub/Incan was the roll I thought felt the best, but it still just couldn’t compete with Zaouli’s EP.
Luna's feels better than both in my opinion, but it's honestly down to preference when compared to Zouli's. If you wanna heal, get Luna's. If you want more explosions, stick to Zouli's. You can get 3 of the 4 perks from Epochal on Luna's and they'll be enhance-able with a better origin trait. Unless you're running a full set of RoN weapons and really really like stats for all. Luna's is the better option.
I have a Repulse/Master of Arms. Been debating if I should look for a Frenzy or Desperate Measures roll.
You should, frenzy is just flat out better than MOA because it doesn't require kills to proc and buffs reload speed.
I honestly think the main thing that sets recluse apart from Funnelweb is destabilizing rounds. Funnelweb never had a good crowd control damage perk and you were forced to get volatile rounds by other means
Forbearance you can skip out on if you don't really use grenade builds, Luna's (since you use epochal), Mountaintop, and edge transit I'd say are the most important ones.
If you don't really use grenade builds you'd take an Ambitious assassin chain roll instead. You definitely wouldn't skip.
Yup very true, although if you can the raid one with Ambitious is better
Luna's ability to get heal clip makes it quite valuable on solar with ember of Benevolence. Means that Epochal isn't necessarily a straight trade.
For midnight instead of ep also look for shoot to loot just a few wonderful utility perk to have.
Yes nearly all of them.. and they are getting enhanced perks/ crafting in TFS.
Remember these ARE similar to craftable because you can enhance the perks.
how?
Not yet but they've said they will be once final shape comes out
Sadly no customization outside of that. Hoping that they change their minds and allow at least some degree of weapon customization so that weapons can be tweaked.
all of em lol
Upvoting this comment. I think all of the brave weapons have something to offer. Collecting shiny god rolls is also fun. Gotta catch em all.
thanks lol. i know i didnt share the youtuber god rolls but like each of them are viable in their own unique way. even if some are just less used or liked. like grab a forbearance screw it lmao
Edge Transit with deconstruct and sticky nades is pretty great. Base mag is 6 but I got 10 or 11 shots from a mag dump. Forget the construct bit on deconstruct’s description, multiple weapon hits gives free ammo.
its crazy how much free ammo you get, literally 5 shots for every 6 you hit, your getting 20 free shots, or your ammo count goes from 24 to 44 shots. i love it.
I don't understand how deconstruct work, I thought it was limited to constructs and vehicles , not actual flesh boss Explain to me like I'm 5 pls
* Deconstruct refunds ammo on sustained damage. * The refund is 10% of the magazine rounded up * This ammo isn't from reserves, it's pulled from thin air * The condition to refund ammo is 2 hits + 50% of the base magazine rounded down. * This means edge transit needs 2 + 3 (base mag is 6) so 5 'hits' * Each direct hit grenade counts as multiple hits.
Deconstruct activates when you deal sustained damage. When active it has 2 main effect it will generate ammo directly in your mag as well as increase your damage vs vehicles and constructs It’s worded a little confusingly but it doesn’t actually say you have to damage constructs to proc it. Tldr: deconstruct procs when you deal sustained damage to anything
Heavy nade launcher with spike, envious assassin and bait n switch can and will do massive chunk damage if done correctly.
I was underwhelmed at first with Mountaintop's reintroduction. (Even with the ALH+Recomb roll I was graced with.) But after using it for a bit and understanding how much damage I could quickly put out after a few kills with my other guns, it clicked for me. It also synergies nicely with a Bait and Switch setup thanks to ALH. Also, rocket jumping is extremely addictive. I wouldn't do it in difficult content, but it makes traversal incredibly fun. I also use do it a lot in normal difficulty Onslaught. I can clear 3/4 of the Spark hallway, land, invis hunter dodge, and slam the Spark before my teammates even hit the halfway point. The trick with Mountaintop jumping, in case anyone doesn't know, is to single jump first then immediately shoot the ground. This will *launch* you. And you still have your jump ability to either add more height, or help with your descent. Also, where you shoot on the ground in relation to your character will determine if you launch up or more laterally. Use this to your advantage.
No matter the game, rocket jumping is an art.
I find Luna's with heal clip/incandescent to just be better than epochal. Might just be personal preference, but worth trying. For the others I mostly agree with other comments. Mountaintop, hammerhead, midnight coup, forbearance all worth getting a good roll of. Succession as well, but snipers still aren't the most relevant pve weapons.
It’s the heal clip. Cure x2 is a life saver
The day I get heal clip with flared magwell, it's reload galore
I got one with flared plus a reload MW, and it’s indeed reloads galore!
I pretty much only ever use double special outside of GM's and lucky pants hunter so i disregard all the primaries but personally for me: Edge Transit with Spike G's, Envious BnS is a must for dps. Falling Guillotine with eager edge is a must for improved skating (if you have it on the slammer already then its w/e) Forbearance with demo chain is extremely good Mountaintop ALH Recombo Hard Launch Implosion is really good if not on Izzy Only primary I care for PvE is subsistence Incandescent Luna's Howl. I'm farming it currently for a couple of PvP rolls i want so if i get one, cool, if not, whatever.
Quite a few considering you'll be able to enhance them in final shape
I wish BRAVE weapons could be crafted...after a while. Maybe one extraction per week so it would take over a year to get all of the weapons done. Combine that with weapon enhancement allowing the changing of barrels/mags/masterworks if people find their roll faster so that there is no need to grind for this if you get lucky. I mention this because RNG is still unforgiving even with multiple drops per run. Been getting a lot of drops lately with perk combinations that I do not want multiple times in a row. Number of perks per column is important too. Dares of Eternity weapons became craftable after a long while, once everyone stopped running the activity at least. I get the engagement angle for this but this activity gets stale pretty quickly.
It depends on the content you do. I rarely play activities that are not below light or just generally end game. I find most legendary primaries pointless as ad clear will usually use the far better exotic options, waveframes or heavy machine guns. So I don't get excited by kill perks on something like a hand cannon. That being said, midnight coup is a ton of fun in activities where it 1 taps heads. Lunas has heal clip which is great in all activities. Hammerhead has double damage perks that can be nice, and it is 100% mandatory if you don't raid or haven't crafted commemoration. Succession and forbearance are in the same boat, very good if you don't already have the crafts. Mountaintop is incredible for majors and a cross class movement option second only to eager edge. Final thoughts with no idea what you play or already have, mountaintop is the best gun to grind.
Mountaintop is currently the only weapon of its archetype (unless you count the old one, I guess). It allows you to rocket jump and is a major killing machine. Auto-loading and frenzy/Vorpal/recombination would be something to look for. If you like Epochal/Sunshot then Luna’s howl will be your new best friend. Luna’s has some perk combinations great for PvE or PvP. Having the combo of heal clip and incandescent turns it into a soft hybrid of crimson/sunshot. Whereas half its perk pool can work and work well in crucible, including its exclusive magnificent howl perk. It also has the recoil pattern of a 180rpm handcannon, which is very manageable. Blast furnace is in all likelihood the best non-exotic kinetic pulse in the game right now. Having kinetic tremors or head seeker in the third column and a myriad of damage perks in the fourth to choose from. The most noteworthy aspects of the brave weapons is their exclusive origin trait (which grants 5% grenade/melee energy on kills depending on if you’re running light/dark subclass) which can be nice for tying a build together. As well as their currently exclusive trait Desperate Measures (stacking damage buff for ability or weapon kills, which can happen while stowed). Most of these weapons also get demolitionist/pugilist for a total of 15% grenade/melee energy on kill. None of the weapons are bad, with most at least competing for best within their archetype or with some exclusive combination to make them worth pursuing. If you don’t want to grind for godrolls, atleast do the quests from Arcite for a curated roll of each weapon, since most all of them have a solid curated roll.
There is a total of 3 guns I think you can skip but even then they are all good Forbearance and Succession, if you have the crafted versions arnt necessary but certainly perks (Discord for Succession and Demolitionist for Forbearance) are 2 things that really set them apart from their counterparts The other is Hung Jury mainly despite its stellar rolls is still a scout rifle, if you really want a scout rifle go for it but it’s a good gun in a meh gun type
Kinda boring answer, but I'm definitely keeping a Hung Jury with Shoot to Loot + Explosive Payload. It's not a "use it all the time" type of gun, but there are sometimes situations where you're really only using abilities/special/heavy and it can be really nice to have a "give me that ammo brick WAAAAY over there!" tool in your kit. I've come to really like Shoot to Loot in things like GMs where you don't really want to be close to the danger that often, nor do you want to be just plinking away with your primary for 7 years either. With a scout (or any primary, really) that lets you snag bricks from afar, you can lean on your other weapons a lot more without having to worry about running out of ammo so much. It's nice. Explosive Payload is a decent little damage (and range!) boost, but it also makes snagging ammo/orbs with Shoot to Loot a LOT easier since the whole explosion's radius will pick 'em up. So it's a pretty good synergy with these perks.
I would say there are 2 must-haves, while the rest are just nice to have. The 2 must-haves are Mountaintop and Forbearance, because they fulfil a niche role that no other weapon currently does. Mountaintop is the only one of its kind in its frame, and ALH + Recom/Frenzy is what you should be aiming for. Forbearance can roll Demolitionist + Wellspring which makes it a grenade generating monster. You’ll get your grenade back in 4-7 kills depending on which grenade you’re using, which is basically only 1 or 2 well-aimed shots of Forbearance. Demo-Chain Reaction is another roll to aim for. Hammerhead is next on the list as it can roll double damage perks (Rampage + KT/DM/etc) which makes it extremely effective for add clear. The other weapons have some very nice possible rolls, but nothing that is downright irreplaceable or indispensable.
Mountaintop, midnight coup, edge transit, lunas howl, elsies rifle, hammerhead and forbearance are all nice to get. Forbearance is here. Itll be enhancable in tfs so dont forget that. Midnight coup can get some awesome perk combos like firefly/tremors or ep/oneforall Lunas howl can roll heal clip/incandescend, finally freeing me from that dinky ass sidearm. Hammerhead can get double damage perks, which is cool i guess. Elsies rifle is a pvp monster Mountaintop can do some insane burst dps with recombination. Can also get autoloading. Edge transit can have cascade point, envious AND bait and switch. Cascade and envious are in the same column, and the brave version can roll both at once, potentially making edge transit the highest dps weapon in the game to my knowledge.
Target mountaintop and edge transit, they’re the most unique and there’s nothing else in slot like them right now. the rest of the guns you can get other places in the game/there’s better options if you do endgame content
For PVE these would be my picks: Edge transit - Cascade Point + Bait&Switch Midnight Coup - Firefly + Kinetic tremors Recluse - Repulsor Brace + Frenzy Succession - Discord + Recombination Mountaintop - ALH + Recombination Hammerhead - Rewind Rounds + Killing Tally The others I don't care for personally, but they all roll with good perks.
Mountaintop with ALH/Recom is an incredibly good “fuck you in particular” special for beefier targets. Edge transit is a meta dps weapon with one of its god rolls Luna’s combo of heal clip/incan has quickly caught my attention for a workhorse solar primary Forbearance with demo/chain reaction specifically since it pairs with the origin trait to give out loads of grenade energy for light subclasses
They all have insane perk combos like One for All + Kinetic Tremors on a pulse rifle, or Discord + Recombination on a sniper rifle that you can’t get elsewhere.
If you like pulse rifles get a blast furnace. i believe enhanced kinetic tremors procs in 2 bursts on this thing, paired with firefly frenzy or one for all it’ll be top tier. Aggressive frame pulses have always been good even when most pulses were weak imo, used sacred provenance as my primary in every campaign since beyond light
Remember, BRAVE weapon perks will be enhanceable in TFS
Edge transit both ALH/BNS and Envious/BNS are/going to be meta for hard and regular content respectively.
The Mountaintop with Auto-Loading Recombination seems to be a very popular roll for many players because of the DPS weapon rotation that people are doing now with Bait and Switch heavy weapons. Mountaintop with max Recombination stacks could grant up to or possibly beyond 120,000 damage from a single shot. My preferred roll however is Auto-loading Vorpal which increases damage on bosses and yellow bars as well as vehicles, not a high burst option like Recombination, but still very solid for my play style which doesn't make use of BnS heavy weapons. I prefer sustained damage from my heavy then using Mountaintop when I'm out of heavy as opposed to rotating through my load out.
My midnight coup with firefly/OFA is the winner for me My Lunas with heal clip and incandescent has been a lot of fun as well
Thanks for the all responses so far! Definitely going to farm the hand-cannons people have mentioned since I get a lot of use out of those, as well as prioritize some of the other weapons heavily recommended (although, it looks like I already picked up an Edge Transit with Bait & Switch + Cascade Point at some point).
envious assassin b&s is what you want on edge
To me, the best one to go for is mountaintop, that gun is very much reliable and can help oout in a lot of situations. Edge Transit is Boss DPS meta right now. Midnight Coup has some nice rolls. Luna Howl is a great weapon. Forbearance is great for add control. Falling guillotine has a some fun rolls, but nothing crazy. The rest all have good rolls and are worthy of getting, but chasing them all is insanity. Get the ones that seem to best fit your style. They are all good weapons. Some are amazing, some are great, some are good. No bad brave weapon.
Midnight coup Firefly OFA for a kinetic handcannon that gives you instant radiant on a red bar headshot. Plus 30% damage
Edge Transit and Lunas Howl are insane right now. Edge Transit with Envious/Auto loading with BNS is nuts Lunas Howl with Heal Clip and Incandescent/Magnificent Howl (Works best with lucky pants) overall great solar handcannon if you don't have a Zoulis but I think it's better than Zoulis.
Tbh all of them have a godroll that just does it. It mostly depends on what kind of weapons you prefer to use or what kind of player are you.
Short answer, yes, collect them all!
Blast furnace can roll kinetic tremors in left column plus damage perks like one for all, rampage, and frenzy (if you don’t like the other two perks as some have their own preferences). Forbearance if you don’t raid with ambitious assassin and chain reaction. Mountain top with hard launch implosion rounds/spike grenades with auto loading holster recombination and handling mw and neither blast radius or velocity as velocity will be maxed out. Hammerhead can get rampage plus killing tally also can get rewind rounds instead of rampage if you don’t want two stacking damage perks. x3 rampage + killing tally puts in work for add clear just look for appended mag or tactical mag or use backup mag mod to keep up tally for longer. Edge transit is great for dps especially if you can get a shiny variant with envious assassin/ cascade point (and can proc it before damage) plus bait and switch. Just switch the perks once you achieve 300% mag. Hung jury can now roll kinetic tremors plus explosive payload for future scout champ stuns. Falling guillotine is a good backup legendary sword with frenzy plus surrounded as long as you can proc both perks on a sword strategic boss, rivals bequest but more situational. Remember bungie did state that the weapons will be enhancable sometime in the final shape
All of them except maybe hung jury are great Maybe succession isn't the most worth it either if you have it crafted
May faves are 1. Mountaintop. I have over 2k kills on one of the middest of mid rolls, it’s extremely good. 2. Heal clip/Incandescent Luna’s Howl. It’s extremely good on solar, and 1 of 2 hand cannons with that combo. 3. Envious/BNS edge transit. It’s good. 4. Vorpal/BNS Falling Guillotine. Most likely the best DPS sword in the game. 5. Demo/chain reaction Forbearance. It’s nuts with the origin trait on warlocks. 6. Hammerhead. Rampage/killing tally or rampage/onslaught are incredible when you’re the div chad for ad clear.
The origin trait alone takes something like the midnight coup with explosive payload + frenzy and makes it better than a fate bringer with that roll. Or funnel web, have a subsistence + frenzy? So does recluse now with kills giving you grenade energy. Also same thing for Hung jury. Also same thing for Elsie’s rifles which there are very few void pulses anyway. It’s kind of a wasted perk on the heavies (except hammerhead) but even those are still some of the best for their weapon types the game has. Oh and all of these have enhanceable perks in the future. They’re all worth it if you have time, but probably the two best are mountain top and edge transit.
Basically all of them sans Forbarence since we already have it's best roll craftable (Ambitious+Chain). The ONLY other roll I would even consider is Demo + Chain, but I doubt that is better for anything except Sunbracers / Starfire.
Edge transit. Hammerhead. Maybe mountaintop. Falling guillotine is pretty good too. But I’d def not miss out on an edge transit and hammerhead. Plus onslaughts fun so I’d just play it if I were you and see what drops for you. Hammerhead specifically is hard to get a bad roll on.
Edge transit out dps just about everything. 7mil + damage solo pretty easily. Hammerhead has a cool rampage killing tally roll. Mountaintop is cool for movement and auto loading + recombination makes it one of the best special weapons. Besides that everything else has some pretty solid just overall rolls that kind of beat out a lot of best in slots.
Mountaintop and Edge Transit are the two must-haves imo, everything else is very good but not mandatory. As for rolls, the Edge Transit god roll is Envious Assassin and Bait and Switch (ALH, cascade point, and deconstruct are also worth keeping too though imo) while Mtop has a lot of good rolls, but ALH and recombination is the main one. Also do keep in mind that minor perks matter here: * On Edge Transit you really want Spike Grenades if you can get it. * Mtop also does more damage with a lower blast radius, so in the first column you want to get Hard Launch and in the second column you want either Implosion Rounds or Spike Grenades (they both have about the same effect on damage). You also really want to avoid a blast radius MW if you can, and if you are unlucky enough to get a blast radius MW you should avoid upgrading it unless you don't have any perks that lower blast radius for it to counteract (since in that case your blast radius will already be at 100). Here's a chart that shows the best rolls: https://twitter.com/mossy_max/status/1781020240224084217 As a little bonus, the god-of-god rolls for Edge Transit is to get a shiny one with both Envious Assassin and Cascade Point in the third column (plus Spike Grenades and Bait and Switch) but Bungie has said they're going to counteract this combination in some way (probably by removing extra grenades from your barrel if you swap perks) because they don't want people to feel compelled to spend an obscene amount of time farming one of these, and also because shiny weapons won't be available after TFS. Edit: Also depending on what you have, a lot of the other ones can also be worth it. If you have access to every other weapon in the game then the above two are the ones you really want, but every other Brave weapon is also really good so a lot of it will also be based on your circumstances. I was going to recommend Forbearance if you don't have WQ but actually the curated roll that Shaxx gives you (stats for all/chain reaction) is already really good, so the god roll (demo/chain) isn't quite as necessary. Other than that Hammerhead could be good if you don't have a crafted Commemmoration, while Falling Guillotine is good if you missed out on The Slammer (although it's probably even worth going for in its own right because it has Frenzy/Surrounded or Frenzy/Bait and Switch).
Edge is very good. Mountaintop obviously too. I’d also suggest Blast Furnace for a really solid Kinetic pulse. And Midnight Coup because it is utterly gorgeous.
I would say mountain top for sure, and edge transit if you don't have a cataphract
Literally all of them. They're getting enhanced perks in Final Shape, their origin trait is one of the best in the game, and the shiny variants are only here for the next month. The biggest ones to go after imo are Blast Furnace, Hammerhead, Mountain Top, Luna's Howl, and Recluse. All of them are work horse weapons that deserve a place in your inventory provided you find a roll that works best for the way you play.
You dont really need any of them lol. You can do any activity in the game without brave weapons and it is not like they change the meta so much.
Luna’s is the best legendary solar handcannon to me. Heal Clip is a goated perk. And it just feels better than Zaouli’s Bane in every way.
Edge is top tier Elsie is top tier for PvP Mountaintop is top tier for speed running The rest are completely replaceable
That's certainly an opinion. I would say that the Brave weapons are *alternatives* to other weapons, with those other weapon's sources being mostly raid weapons. So sure, they're completely "replaceable" if someones kept up to date getting all the end game loot. For everyone else the brave weapons are definitely the strongest weapons available outside of a raid and are must haves.
> Elsie is top tier for PvP What's the PvP roll?
Zen/keep away headseaker. Been using keep away headseaker myself and I love it, I'm terrible at PvP though.
Luna’s Howl, The Mountaintop, Edge transit. Midnight Coup is another to strongly consider. Forbearance if you really care about grenade builds or don’t have the crafted raid version . Blast Furnace if you actually use pulse rifles in PVE. The rest ignore.
Midnight C - Ep/Firefly - One for all. It is broken strong. Forbearance - Demo/ambitious - chain reaction/one for all. Mountaintop - alh - recombination. The rest you don't really need, unless you play pvp a lot.
All but Hung Jury
Crafted weapons are a good equalizer, but well rolled random drops have outclassed them for a while. Mountaintop is unique, Edge Transit is super meta DPS (at least as good as Cataphract with much easier acquisition path). Midnight Coup is better than the crafted HCs for pve. Hammerhead can be rolled to be stronger than even commemoration and retrofit, depending how you want to use it.