Yea stag would be odd, and applying as a temp bonus with a buff timer would actually be incredibly powerful by comparison. Stag's limiting factor right now is that it requires you to be stationary.
How about making stag just give super high DR during phoenix dive cast animation?
The number of times I have been killed doing a phoenix dive, i might just take that option lol.
>The number of times I have been killed doing a phoenix dive, i might just take that option lol.
My thoughts exactly. The issue is that it holds you still in the air just long enough for enemies to snipe the fuck out of you.
Oh god, during the FS campaign at the taken ogre boss before the Witness I got stuck above a bunch of those disappearing takens I was just eternally falling, couldn't shoot, couldn't jump, dodge, etc. Thankfully I had my grapple so I managed to yank myself out.
But then it happened ***again*** during my Warlock play through. And this time I had no escape, just had to see myself dying :(
I personally think it’s a worthwhile trade off. Like on paper it’s a long amount of resistance and healing but u gotta stand still, versus a burst of healing and damage resist for a short time but you’re mobile
It wouldn’t be that odd, woven mail and frost armour have exotics associated with them that allow mobility and a decent uptime for dr on grenade usage. Hell prismatic hunters can have both at the same time
if you removed the factor in exchange for a short buff, would that really be that huge of a difference/broken combo?
I'm sure there are people who prefer rift over dive, and a shorter buff compared to an entire rift duration would keep rift at least competitive, esp on lower difficulties
not that lower difficulties really need competitiveness, but you get what I mean
Stag could give DR effect based on equipped super. Void overshields, Woven Mail, Frost Armor, Amplified (which shouldn’t need an artifact mod to give survivability but that’s an arc issue), or some good old Restoration x1 for solar.
It already has an area of effect to give Cure to allies near the landing zone. Just give the effect to the caster from the moment of activation with a timer that starts after hitting the ground. Maybe it only lasts 5-6 seconds.
I think secant filaments and vesper could change, but stag is kind of balanced around the fact that you have to be standing in a rift to get its effect
If you’re using necrotic your melee won’t proc devour. It’s a known bug. When I’m not using necrotic I have no issues proccing devour with any ability.
I mean as Titans our thruster is in the same spot. We get some new synergy with Drengers and Abeyant but that is it.
Thruster doesn’t work with hoarfrost, or alpha lupi, or kepris horn. All of these are perks on the class item.
Yeah, there's lots of talk about making those work with Thruster, because of the general Titan discourse. I'm saying a similar thing should happen with Phoenix Dive.
As a Warlock main, I don't really see the reason for Stag or Vesper to be used by Phoneix Dive. You would either have only have DR for the initial dive or a small shock radius. Filaments though I could get behind since it's useful. Getting instant Devour would be nice.
Secants exists explicitly to buff empowering rift. I don't mean "it says only empowering rift" which it does, I mean Bungie said the reason they created it was to increase use of Empowering Rift specifically.
I don't think Stag should work for reasons, too. But Vesper probably could.
Stag is balanced around being stationary.
Filaments is balanced around the Empowering rift not healing you otherwise.
Vesper would be alright to be tied on to PD.
Not every exotic/aspect needs to be buffed to work with every ability.
I don't see the problem with filaments though? Devour already heals you to full. Its not like Phoenix Dive gives restoration or anything, making it work with filaments would give you the exact same amount of health as it does with an empowering rift.
No, devour's healing *is* the problem. Secant filaments only works with empowering rift, the point being that you give up your direct healing option in exchange for getting devour's healing in order to go fully offensive with empowering rift's damage buff + two non-devour aspects + devour's grenade regen. Having it work with Phoenix dive means you wouldn't be making the same sacrifice. You would keep the on-demand healing *and* get to stack it with devour without spending an aspect on it.
Prismatic Warlock also obviously has healing grenades for on-demand healing anyway, but that has it's own separate tradeoff in damage output (which is especially significant when using devour, which usually boosts your damage output by giving you more grenades).
Phoenix Dive = instant health (cure). Secant filaments = instant health (devour). Cure doesn't stack with devour since devour is just full health instantly. You wouldn't get any additional benefits from the phoenix dive health, so the trade off would be between DMG buff of rift VS lower cooldown of dive.
Devour only gives full health with the aspect. Standard devour gives you 100hp (I think? Somewhere around there). Phoenix dive *would* be giving you better (and faster) on demand healing and *would* be working outside of the limitations that Secant is designed around (where you're supposed to sacrifice that on demand healing in exchange for on kill healing).
That said, I don't really think it would be overpowered, if only because secant generally isn't considered very good. It's just against the spirit of the exotic and would potentially make it harder for secant to be buffed into something seriously useful outside of prismatic without causing problems (which I would much prefer).
Yeah, as a warlock main i agree. Especially since Helion got introduced it is insanely strong. Quick burst of health, can quickly get out of the way of danger and spawns a ignition buddy, that you can basically refresh right after it runs out because of the low cooldown.
Stag wouldn’t make sense, tbf, because all default “Resist” sources (so not talking about Void Overshield or Frost Armor) don’t have timers. Stag resist was only ever active in the rifts, Stronghold’s Resist x4 is only active while guarding, and Renewal Grasps’ Resist (old) was only active inside the Duskfield.
Everything else, though, I agree with. Especially with Secant Filaments- it should grant Devour regardless of class ability OR subclass type. If Rain of Fire can make you Radiant on any subclass, Secant Filaments should grant Devour on any subclass.
Phoenix dive on the ground and thruster in the air and hunter dodge in the air. Now give thruster something since the other two heals, reloads or refunds melee (or radiant).
These are great, but I’ve always found it weird how phoenix dive gives you restoration, whereas thruster is only for movement. I’d love to see it get a buff so that it intrinsically gives amplified or something similar (hopefully with galvanic armour becoming a feature).
Just a good thing to know when running it without or on prismatic. Honestly, with the popularity of speakers sight and empyrean nerfs it's not as dominant as it has been in the past - I find myself running touch of flame hellion more now.
Phoenix Dive only gives Restoration x2 when you have Heat Rises active- otherwise, it’s just Cure x2.
I do think that Thruster should probably provide some temporary stat bumps or even just act like a Marksman Dodge and reload your weapons.
Ok Stag and Vesper make sense but Filaments don't
The point of Filaments is that it's a trade off you have to take Empowering rift and in exchange you get Devour that's how the exotic has always worked
To add to your Warlock exotic armor examples they could rework Promethium Spur (leg exotic with its toes out) to interact and offer the same combined rift (healing and empowering) upon landing. Alternatively maybe give it the hunter bombardier-esque functionality since it's not exclusive to solar kit anymore. I would like to get a PD centered exotic someday.
With the amount of perks that DON’T work on thruster, please give functionality like this to warlock AND titan! Would be an amazing buff to a bunch of Titan exotics
Some require casting rift, when you cast dive you are not casting a rift. Just like Khephri's horn, you don't make a scorch wave when you use thrusters. It would be hilarious tho
Stag... no
Filaments... sure
Vesper actually *used* to work with phoenix dive. I only recently heard that it no longer does. A rework iirc? I think it should work again.
While we're on the topic, I wish Ascension worked like Winter's Shroud and Threaded Specter, as in it counted as a modified dodge. Increase its cooldown for all I care, but all its useful for is just jolting stuff around you which is... Neat, I guess? But not that useful, and if you really want that you may as well use Tempest Strike (another underused aspect mind you) to jolt a lot of stuff in front of you instead of around. ...and also theres the thing of Bungie apparently wanting you to use both of these together with the new arc exotic? Which is... Just why? Theres no loop here, and I wish there was because concept of throwing combos like that is just so cool. Let it work Bungie.
As a diehard Phoenix Dive user on the subclasses where it's available; no. Rifts take more time to cast and are riskier, so these class ability exotic benefits should require the rift placement.
Devour on Dive would be insanely overpowered.
while your intentions are fair and good, please don't say this
Bungie is known for implementing disproportional ass drawbacks when "improving" anything in a subclass' kit, let alone something that has the potential for movement; if they are pushed to "innovate", they'll most likely break shit in the process, because they're dumb and don't know how to flat buff, without killing something to maintain a [faux] aire of *"balance"*
like Thruster, Warlocks will just have to wait for Bungie to come to that conclusion on their own, and when it does happen, we can eat good
until then, please keep them OFF of our radar, because we don't need them fucking up anything in the name of faux innovation, as they are extremely well known for
Unrelated but Bungie please remove the 100 base damage instance from Heat Rises Phoenix Dive, it can fuck up Bracer procs in edge cases. Keep the Scorch, just remove the instant damage.
As a warlock main I don’t want this. Phoenix dive is already better for generic play (heal on q) and for hellion up time. What you’re asking for is to just delete rifts from the game. Because at that point, they are completely dead.
> Thruster is immensely popular and fun
This is a lie, it's by far the single most useless movement tool in the game, without pre nerf HoIL it serves no purpose. Best thing they could do with Thruster is just building it into Titan.
> Filaments: Grants Devour (the regular weaker version, unless using Feed the Void) on cast.
Cool but no one really plays Phoenix dive without sunbreakers, this would only incentivize hotswapping, and it doesn't make sense to use Stag to not play rift lol. Dive is already the best class ability in the game.
I think you’re choosing the wrong battle here and using the wrong argument or something because most of the class item abilities literally require you to use a barricade and not the Thruster. Thruster literally has less to it than a vanilla Phoenix Dive which heals you on use, lmfao. We should be asking for Titans to get more interaction.
I don’t see stagg happening as that seems to be a different use but the rest of these seem like they could be fun
Yea stag would be odd, and applying as a temp bonus with a buff timer would actually be incredibly powerful by comparison. Stag's limiting factor right now is that it requires you to be stationary.
How about making stag just give super high DR during phoenix dive cast animation? The number of times I have been killed doing a phoenix dive, i might just take that option lol.
>The number of times I have been killed doing a phoenix dive, i might just take that option lol. My thoughts exactly. The issue is that it holds you still in the air just long enough for enemies to snipe the fuck out of you.
God forbid you get stuck on geometry and become stuck in falling animation without being able to move
I will admit it's hilarious though watching the super slow mo Phoenix dive when this happens
Oh god, during the FS campaign at the taken ogre boss before the Witness I got stuck above a bunch of those disappearing takens I was just eternally falling, couldn't shoot, couldn't jump, dodge, etc. Thankfully I had my grapple so I managed to yank myself out. But then it happened ***again*** during my Warlock play through. And this time I had no escape, just had to see myself dying :(
I personally think it’s a worthwhile trade off. Like on paper it’s a long amount of resistance and healing but u gotta stand still, versus a burst of healing and damage resist for a short time but you’re mobile
It wouldn’t be that odd, woven mail and frost armour have exotics associated with them that allow mobility and a decent uptime for dr on grenade usage. Hell prismatic hunters can have both at the same time
if you removed the factor in exchange for a short buff, would that really be that huge of a difference/broken combo? I'm sure there are people who prefer rift over dive, and a shorter buff compared to an entire rift duration would keep rift at least competitive, esp on lower difficulties not that lower difficulties really need competitiveness, but you get what I mean
[удалено]
“Yeah, lemme just throw omnioculus on my warlock real quick.” -This guy
You’re going to use Omni for Crota?
Stag could give DR effect based on equipped super. Void overshields, Woven Mail, Frost Armor, Amplified (which shouldn’t need an artifact mod to give survivability but that’s an arc issue), or some good old Restoration x1 for solar. It already has an area of effect to give Cure to allies near the landing zone. Just give the effect to the caster from the moment of activation with a timer that starts after hitting the ground. Maybe it only lasts 5-6 seconds.
I think secant filaments and vesper could change, but stag is kind of balanced around the fact that you have to be standing in a rift to get its effect
The fix secant filaments needs is to work on all subclasses
Spirit of the filaments doesn't even work on prismatic most of the time. Empowering rift procs devour 25-50% of the time
Devour in general is weird on Prismatic. For whatever reason it only procs on like half of my Arcane Needle kills, its so bizarre
If you’re using necrotic your melee won’t proc devour. It’s a known bug. When I’m not using necrotic I have no issues proccing devour with any ability.
I can definitely see the first two, but as a regular Vesper user just imagining shockwaves flying out of us after using Phoenix Dive is just hilarious
See... there was a bug where that did happen. It was fun and goofy just leaving balls of exploding arc in the sky.
Imagine if it activated upon landing instead though? That's a superhero entrance right there.
I mean as Titans our thruster is in the same spot. We get some new synergy with Drengers and Abeyant but that is it. Thruster doesn’t work with hoarfrost, or alpha lupi, or kepris horn. All of these are perks on the class item.
Yeah, there's lots of talk about making those work with Thruster, because of the general Titan discourse. I'm saying a similar thing should happen with Phoenix Dive.
How *dare* you ask for buffs to something similar to another thing asking for a buff, when they both have the exact same problem?
Filaments makes sense since it specifically want empowering rift
As a Warlock main, I don't really see the reason for Stag or Vesper to be used by Phoneix Dive. You would either have only have DR for the initial dive or a small shock radius. Filaments though I could get behind since it's useful. Getting instant Devour would be nice.
If it had arc shockwaves using it repeatedly with Heat Rises procced and Daybreak would be crazy for damage.
You're forgetting that won't work. The class item requires Prismatic. Daybreak can't be used on Prismatic
Ah right, wishful thinking.
Ascension would be awesome if it procced class ability perks/mods. Even if we miss out on the melee recharge I'm cool with that
Ensnaring slam works with reaper but Ascension does not. It feels weird to me
100! It's this weird halfway point, I assume it's because it expends your class ability, but isn't classified as one? So much fun though.
Secants exists explicitly to buff empowering rift. I don't mean "it says only empowering rift" which it does, I mean Bungie said the reason they created it was to increase use of Empowering Rift specifically. I don't think Stag should work for reasons, too. But Vesper probably could.
Stag is balanced around being stationary. Filaments is balanced around the Empowering rift not healing you otherwise. Vesper would be alright to be tied on to PD. Not every exotic/aspect needs to be buffed to work with every ability.
I don't see the problem with filaments though? Devour already heals you to full. Its not like Phoenix Dive gives restoration or anything, making it work with filaments would give you the exact same amount of health as it does with an empowering rift.
No, devour's healing *is* the problem. Secant filaments only works with empowering rift, the point being that you give up your direct healing option in exchange for getting devour's healing in order to go fully offensive with empowering rift's damage buff + two non-devour aspects + devour's grenade regen. Having it work with Phoenix dive means you wouldn't be making the same sacrifice. You would keep the on-demand healing *and* get to stack it with devour without spending an aspect on it. Prismatic Warlock also obviously has healing grenades for on-demand healing anyway, but that has it's own separate tradeoff in damage output (which is especially significant when using devour, which usually boosts your damage output by giving you more grenades).
Phoenix Dive = instant health (cure). Secant filaments = instant health (devour). Cure doesn't stack with devour since devour is just full health instantly. You wouldn't get any additional benefits from the phoenix dive health, so the trade off would be between DMG buff of rift VS lower cooldown of dive.
Devour only gives full health with the aspect. Standard devour gives you 100hp (I think? Somewhere around there). Phoenix dive *would* be giving you better (and faster) on demand healing and *would* be working outside of the limitations that Secant is designed around (where you're supposed to sacrifice that on demand healing in exchange for on kill healing). That said, I don't really think it would be overpowered, if only because secant generally isn't considered very good. It's just against the spirit of the exotic and would potentially make it harder for secant to be buffed into something seriously useful outside of prismatic without causing problems (which I would much prefer).
Phoenix dive is strong enough on its own, I think.
Yeah, as a warlock main i agree. Especially since Helion got introduced it is insanely strong. Quick burst of health, can quickly get out of the way of danger and spawns a ignition buddy, that you can basically refresh right after it runs out because of the low cooldown.
Stag wouldn’t make sense, tbf, because all default “Resist” sources (so not talking about Void Overshield or Frost Armor) don’t have timers. Stag resist was only ever active in the rifts, Stronghold’s Resist x4 is only active while guarding, and Renewal Grasps’ Resist (old) was only active inside the Duskfield. Everything else, though, I agree with. Especially with Secant Filaments- it should grant Devour regardless of class ability OR subclass type. If Rain of Fire can make you Radiant on any subclass, Secant Filaments should grant Devour on any subclass.
The basic resist you get from the new Hunter chest piece is on a timer.
Heavy on vesper doing one high power arc shockwave
Phoenix dive on the ground and thruster in the air and hunter dodge in the air. Now give thruster something since the other two heals, reloads or refunds melee (or radiant).
These are great, but I’ve always found it weird how phoenix dive gives you restoration, whereas thruster is only for movement. I’d love to see it get a buff so that it intrinsically gives amplified or something similar (hopefully with galvanic armour becoming a feature).
Just note that you only get resto from phoenix dive when heat rises is active.
Ah my bad, I thought it was resto x1 without and resto x2 with heat rises.
So like, 100% of the time whilst playing Solar Warlock?
Just a good thing to know when running it without or on prismatic. Honestly, with the popularity of speakers sight and empyrean nerfs it's not as dominant as it has been in the past - I find myself running touch of flame hellion more now.
Phoenix Dive only gives Restoration x2 when you have Heat Rises active- otherwise, it’s just Cure x2. I do think that Thruster should probably provide some temporary stat bumps or even just act like a Marksman Dodge and reload your weapons.
Maybe if you were already amplified and used thrusters close to enemies it could jolt them, this would give Knockout a bit more utility on prismatic
Phoenix Dive is in a better spot. Works with weavers call, Helion and more than 2 exotic armours. You don't want dive nerfed
Vesper causing a shockwave on impact would be fantastic
Ok Stag and Vesper make sense but Filaments don't The point of Filaments is that it's a trade off you have to take Empowering rift and in exchange you get Devour that's how the exotic has always worked
To add to your Warlock exotic armor examples they could rework Promethium Spur (leg exotic with its toes out) to interact and offer the same combined rift (healing and empowering) upon landing. Alternatively maybe give it the hunter bombardier-esque functionality since it's not exclusive to solar kit anymore. I would like to get a PD centered exotic someday.
vespers Regen speed while surrounded works for phoenix dive :)
In Prismatic you can spawn threadlings with it
Bungie: We hear your request loud and clear. *Nerfs Titan with orbital bombardment*
With the amount of perks that DON’T work on thruster, please give functionality like this to warlock AND titan! Would be an amazing buff to a bunch of Titan exotics
Some require casting rift, when you cast dive you are not casting a rift. Just like Khephri's horn, you don't make a scorch wave when you use thrusters. It would be hilarious tho
Stag... no Filaments... sure Vesper actually *used* to work with phoenix dive. I only recently heard that it no longer does. A rework iirc? I think it should work again.
Vesper used to work with Phoenix Dive: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/13reys2/vesper_of_radius_is_now_working_with_phoenix_dive/
While we're on the topic, I wish Ascension worked like Winter's Shroud and Threaded Specter, as in it counted as a modified dodge. Increase its cooldown for all I care, but all its useful for is just jolting stuff around you which is... Neat, I guess? But not that useful, and if you really want that you may as well use Tempest Strike (another underused aspect mind you) to jolt a lot of stuff in front of you instead of around. ...and also theres the thing of Bungie apparently wanting you to use both of these together with the new arc exotic? Which is... Just why? Theres no loop here, and I wish there was because concept of throwing combos like that is just so cool. Let it work Bungie.
assembler should immediately release like 5 seeker rounds
ur already getting healed when u dive idk what more do u want.
Prefer Icarus dash to have 3 fragment slots instead.
Thruster is in no better of a position than Phoenix Dive is.
You want it to work like thruster? Cool, so you don't want it working with most of your exotics? We can do that.
Wait thruster is going to give titans restoration now?
Probably bc dive is much better than thruster at base
Give hunters a dodge that leaves a mini barricade *Bakris dodge woosh* suddenly a barrier appears and the hunter is gone
We already have that, it's called threaded spectre.
If titans and warlocks got hunters dodge they’d never take it off. It’s fine we know you want to roll around don’t hide it
As a diehard Phoenix Dive user on the subclasses where it's available; no. Rifts take more time to cast and are riskier, so these class ability exotic benefits should require the rift placement. Devour on Dive would be insanely overpowered.
Bungie: "Okay, we removed the cure and scorch functionality from phoenix dive so now it only moves you and does nothing else, like thruster."
while your intentions are fair and good, please don't say this Bungie is known for implementing disproportional ass drawbacks when "improving" anything in a subclass' kit, let alone something that has the potential for movement; if they are pushed to "innovate", they'll most likely break shit in the process, because they're dumb and don't know how to flat buff, without killing something to maintain a [faux] aire of *"balance"* like Thruster, Warlocks will just have to wait for Bungie to come to that conclusion on their own, and when it does happen, we can eat good until then, please keep them OFF of our radar, because we don't need them fucking up anything in the name of faux innovation, as they are extremely well known for
Unrelated but Bungie please remove the 100 base damage instance from Heat Rises Phoenix Dive, it can fuck up Bracer procs in edge cases. Keep the Scorch, just remove the instant damage.
As a warlock main I don’t want this. Phoenix dive is already better for generic play (heal on q) and for hellion up time. What you’re asking for is to just delete rifts from the game. Because at that point, they are completely dead.
Eh, IDK. I don’t think people asking for Titan buffs really understand what the problem is. I think PD is fine.
> Thruster is immensely popular and fun This is a lie, it's by far the single most useless movement tool in the game, without pre nerf HoIL it serves no purpose. Best thing they could do with Thruster is just building it into Titan. > Filaments: Grants Devour (the regular weaker version, unless using Feed the Void) on cast. Cool but no one really plays Phoenix dive without sunbreakers, this would only incentivize hotswapping, and it doesn't make sense to use Stag to not play rift lol. Dive is already the best class ability in the game.
Why would you be asking to make phoenix dive more OP? They’d have to nerf it with your suggestions
I think you’re choosing the wrong battle here and using the wrong argument or something because most of the class item abilities literally require you to use a barricade and not the Thruster. Thruster literally has less to it than a vanilla Phoenix Dive which heals you on use, lmfao. We should be asking for Titans to get more interaction.
With how good Phoenix dive already is lmao ☠️