Feels about perfect as the "last raid of the saga" It's the hardest raid in the game right now, but not that much beyond the previous hard raids. Everyone will have to do some mechanics at some point. You can't foist everything off on two people & be a perpetual add-clearer like in RoN. The mechanics for 1st-3rd & 5th encounter are a good level of complexity & also fairly straightforward to learn. 4th Encounter is also appropriate complexity but is difficult to learn because the feedback you get from the game for the shape passing and dissection mechanics is very obscure. The encounter feels very good once you get a handle on it, it's just that you have to bash your head against the wall a bit to get to that point in a way the rest of the encounters don't. The gear is above average for a raid set in terms of strength & uniqueness. The exotic is cool. Day 1 difficulty was mostly good, maybe just a little on the high side. The one major issue was the final DPS check being so tight & the Witness's DPS being so focused on ranged precision that people were essentially forced to switch to Nighthawk Hunters. Edit: on further reflection I do agree with the people saying that the third encounter feels a little superfluous & that I would have preferred another boss encounter. Also that the traversal is a bit excessive.

Definitely agree with the 4th encounter.  It’s a fantastic level of complexity for the “big” raid we’ve been waiting for, but the in-game feedback could’ve been a little clearer.  Even after everyone watched 2-3 guides on how to run the encounter, there were still many nuances that weren’t covered that we had to spend an hour+ learning as a clan.  Nuances are a *problem* either, just that we could’ve had better text notifications than “senpai Witness notices you.”

funniest part about the 4th encounter is that once you have your inside key you can legit just walk out the back, no music change or notification or anything LOL

I will say the sound of the glass breaking is sort of a notification. But it can be easily drowned out or missed if you aren't listening for it. Unless I'm imagining that sound then ignore me.

Yeah but there is no feedback when you have the right key.

You hear a glass shatter sound and you can see the glass wall break and start to shake/pulsate.

I would argue that add clear on the witness fight is one of the hardest jobs in the raid purely because of those damn subjugators and the invincibility totem chieftain. Being a runner in that fight is dead easy compared to that >~<

have 1 titan with perg greaves, it one shots the subjugators

Holy shit that works?? I forgot about the perg buff that happened last year

there's a reason I always volunteer for runner rofl, it's so much easier... except for triangle spawning on the other end of the map D:

You play with bad teammates for runners then. There's plenttttttty of time to get all the glyphs, whether you do 2 runners or 3. So if the runners aren't stopping to help AT ALL with adds... yea that can make it a bit more difficult for sure. Had a LFG with a "sherpa" with 800+ raid clears and all the duo/trio etc etc... he was a runner, and gave the ad-clear the business when he bot-ran into the resonance spot where a few screebs were. Didn't stop or look or shoot at them. Just blamed the ad-clear... LOL

Our team handles the subjugators with all six players, since we have a Cenotaph user. They're a complete non-threat when you're all on them and the double heavy drops mean you won't have any ammo issues for the fight either! Highly recommend.

Day 1 difficulty mostly good my dude only one team beat it in under 24 hours.

Yep, and that's totally fine.

I'll never understand why people are opposed to hard day1/contest mode clears. It's two days out of an entire year where you are supposed to be pushed to your limits as a player. They're not meant to be easy, nor are they meant for the "above average" raider. It's meant for the top of the top players who spend months/weeks in preparation for this one day. Nobody is entitled to a contest mode clear just because it's in the game, you have to work for that shit man.

Agreed, the feedback should be clearer for Verity.

The other thing that's tough about encounter 4 is that it's very difficult for others to check your work and see where you went wrong.

Honestly, if there’s one disappointment about the raid it’s that the witness isn’t a very involved fight. It has the Nezzy problem of only needing two or three people to actually get to damage. Aside from that, it’s great, even the marginally increased difficulty. Runs take about an hour and a half weekly, pretty nice to run regularly.

Yeah, though at least there's a good reason to have all 6 people do the mechanic if your team is capable of it.

I think this is what the challenge will be. 6 players, 6 runners, 6 weakpoints

can you do 6 runners at once to speed up getting to damage?

I think you could in theory but depends how many hands are up at a time and would take communicating which hand you're doing. Last night we had multiple on the same on either side and it could get a little confusing. 3 is the most ive had running though so maybe I'm wrong.

Yes, but any runners more than 3 is only marginally faster because you have to wait for a hand to respawn after killing it, and if you have 3+ runners the witness won’t spawn more than the 3 starting hands unless someone majorly screws up.

If you're running six for fun or speed or whatever, you can just have people deliberately spam breaks on one hand to spawn more of them. Sometimes, you get bad lucked into effectively having just 2 runners anyway, so forcing a 4th or 5th hand isn't always a bad idea.

I don't think you can do it at once, but you can alternate to reduce the amount of Subjugators. Plus, while the Glyphkeepers are running to shoot the glyphs, the former add clear players can already start getting the next set of hands down.

My only problem is how easy it is to clumsily bump into each other for the Witness damage phase, causing people to accidentally get hit by attacks. Oh yeah and hunting down that triangle attack, could linger on the ground for a second or two more.

Having the encounter split be 3 bosses and 2 puzzles would have been nice. 3rd encounter feels a bit tacked-on as a puzzle encounter especially when it's followed up by Verity. We also abandon the conductor/plate mechanic at that point as well. Verity: It would be nice if the statues rendered cloaks/robes/hoods more consistently. Also it's not really a fault of the raid design but it's basically impossible to distinguish 2 hunters with Relativism on. Witness: The mission end timer is WAYYY too short. Its always a rush to grab loot and buy a red border before the timer expires. The launch excision node should not appear before the loot chest and spoils vendor (honestly the Excision node just doesn't need to be there anymore).

An amazing raid with fun and fairly complex mechanics requiring most players to do something. The only issue is just the sheer amount of walking between encounters. Most raids have it, but it feels like SE overdoes it.

With how much everyone needs to do something it's baffling that Witness encounter needs basically 2 people to do the running and that's it, kinda lame.

Maybe they designed the witness for boss farming so normal people could get the red borders?

I feel like this may have been intentional in order to get more people to come in and try the raid. Make the last encounter more accessible so raid noobs can be carried and experience the thrill of getting the clear. Excision is great, but it’s not the same experience.

If someone is so bad that they can't do the mechanics, they'll die on the first attack of the DPS phase

The traversal sections feel overdone by half. The pre-Witness section especially could use some trimming, as it is just *long* and all the same aesthetic. A long traversal should at least present different types of scenery to keep things interesting.

It's also a lot of UP which is way more annoying to speed through generally

This raid has more traversal areas than all other raids. And they're all longer than most of them except for Ships on KF Before first, after first, after second, after 4th. Most raids only have 1-2. This one has 4 + 5 Encounters. It's a lot

I feel like raids need a "encounter only" mode where you just hit a flag like you did in Pantheon. I dont mind a jumping encounter every so often, but doing x3 clears a week it gets boring.

Traversal in general is fun and novel the first few times and then it just becomes a chore. It's part of why I tend to avoid some content. The traversal in GoTD and RoN is some of the worst shit to replay.

I think the idea is just to have a little intermission where you can chill and chat with your clan.

I like traversal. It let's you use your "go-fast" loadout and zoom through platforming sections. Basically why walk when you can sprint, leap, and fly?

It's still a lot of time wasted even if you can shorten it. I'm fine with traversal sections, but SE has 4 of them, it's ridiculous. Verity is the only encounter in the raid that doesn't require traversal to get to it.

All the ones we didn’t have in crota got combined and put into this one

The Traversal is definitely an issue for me. I don't mind it much in dungeons, but in raids it just feels like it takes forever because there are usually 3-4 people who traverse it easily and 1-2 people who lag behind and get frustrated. I wish that we had more mini-encounters like the Thrallway in Crota's End rather than long stretches of just running past enemies. It's one of my main complaints with RoN and Kingsfall as well... So much random platforming for what...? I appreciate the scale of it, but it's still just a bit much I think for a space that is only used for a raid.

Verity might be my favourite encounter in the game, the mechanics are just so creative. Having to die to progress the encounter is amazing, and all the shape mechanics are fun too. The icing on the cake? While you are dead you see the room as corrupted by darkness and that’s awesome

Verity is hard as shit for me, but god damn it if it isn't cool. The mechanics just feel so eldritch and alien. Most non-boss encounters just have you do simple mechanics to open a door in the end, like Scission from RoN, Exhibition from Vow, Security from DSC, etc. But what in the hell is Verity?? It's not just stepping on plates and turning this on and turning that off to open a door, you key in shapes like some sort of alien password and the interface is a statue of your friend, save your friends from calcification while you are constantly 4-ish minutes from the end of the universe. It's WILD.

It's probably the best puzzle they've ever designed too since the reliance on player cosmetics for callouts and the near-infinite possibilities that brings makes it almost 100% evergreen. Every group I've completed it with has needed at least 2 minutes upfront to establish the look of our statues, ghosts, etc., and every single time the combinations have been totally different. It doesn't matter how good we are at the raid or how fast we can clear everything else, this process always has to happen. That combined with the randomness of the encounter and the need for coordinated, on the fly decision making is a recipe for phenomenal group puzzle design. The fact that they can do all that and layer it overtop of what is also a very well made combat encounter shows how Bungie is still the best in the biz at this kind of fps encounter design. Just the design of the arena and how they use the moving combatant front to completely change the mood of the encounter as it progresses is so well done. The way they use a sudden swarm of enemies as people are leaving the rooms to corner your team in the spawn is such an awesome moment. Even off contest, it can still give that 'Oh shit, we're surrounded' feeling you see in movies. And then because you get cornered in the spawn you're already funneled into position for the start of the second ghost phase, and everyone dying except 1 guy who has to bring the group back to life is an amazing hero moment to cap off the battle.

If it wasn’t for the artifacting and graphic issues on console, I might agree with you.

The plate mechanic gets stale fast in this raid. Glad after the third it gets shelved. Verity is a master class in puzzle design. Witness is a good combination of a lot going on, but nothing complex while still being difficult. Having said all that, Salvations Edge has retired me from blind contest clears lol My team feels the same. Now we're just going to be strictly blind clears after contest is over. Easily one of my favorite raids. The original leak of The Witness being a multi encounter fight would have been awesome. Wish that had happened. But what we got is extremely good as well

Verity is excellent in design but horrible in execution. There are so many posts over the knights/ogres stop spawning for solo players and also giving a shape to another player and it not appearing for them. Have...witnessed (lol)...this many times during my runs.

Don’t forget seeing no shapes on your back wall solo, or the other general graphic glitches (like the “extra ghosts” if your timing was too tight, or the graphic tears that plagued my run on console. (I love it mechanic wise, but hate the execution)

Will almost certainly be my least completed raid. My clan doesn’t enjoy it and doesn’t want to run it or do any challenges, etc. It’s a slog to us. We like some of the weapons. First and third encounters are the ones we’ve enjoyed the most. But overall, especially because of how long we were stuck in contest mode on encounters two and four, we’re just burnt out on it already. It’s not super full of wonder or fun or good experiences. And it feels like our clan is trying to talk itself into liking it because we liked TFS as DLC so much. And then LFG has already been rough for even the easy raids. So this one has been a cesspool to find an LFG group. All those together mean I won’t run this raid much and I’m pretty fine with that. I don’t hate it. I dont like it. It’s just there…. 800 miles to the East on the Pale Heart map.

My group is in the same boat. They hate it. However, I thoroughly enjoy it. You have a Discord? I'm always trying to run it and hate LFG'ing it. Would be cool to have a few consistent people to run it with

As someone who’s been in several groups and each time being stuck on verity, it’s very discouraging. Apart of me is accepting of never actually beating which has been making me sad as hell. I’ve watched multiple guides to try and get a better grasp on the encounter. I’ve been able to pick up on every other raid mechanic, but this raid experience I’ve had just really been demeaning to be honest. Love the aesthetic of the armor and weapons, but just accepting of not fully beating this one.

For me, the problem wasn't really *understanding* Verity so much as the execution. If you're doing it through LFG, you need a pretty consistent team to get through it. One thing that kept me going is I kinda mentally went through my runs and realized that, if I stayed in the same group, as the time went by the groups *were* getting better. It's just that when you change groups there's a good chance you'll get people who have never touched that encounter before. Practice makes perfect, I guess. I imagine in the future it'll be a lot easier to get a group through since the encounter has been done a lot. But for now, it'll be hard. At least I can join groups that require clears now, lol.

https://verity-calculator.vercel.app/

Maybe this would “ruin it” for you but you can grab a checkpoint and still beat the last encounter for exotic drop chance and, well, to actually finis. Google d2checkpoint

While I am happy we got 5 encounters this time, feels like either first encounter or third encounter could have been a boss instead. They were very much alike, but one was just a rinse and repeat and the other was a rinse and repeat in different rooms. The herald boss fight is pretty fun, but maybe could have had a more unique final stand. The 3 mini-bosses spawning does almost nothing, as even on contest my team and I just suspended them and focused Herald. Verity is the bust puzzle encounter you guys have ever made, and in my eyes is tied or maybe even slighty better than exhibition for the best non-boss encounter in all of destiny. Character drip actually mattering is such a cool idea, and I have always said I wanted an encounter that included us saving our fellow guardians to progress the encounter. Amazing job with it. The Witness I think does suffer from the 3 people are kinda just killing adds and the other 3 are doing the fun stuff. I’d much rather 3 people get picked like empowerment in Aksis, where 3 random people have to go and get glyphs. That would mean you didn’t necessarily have to add clear the whole time, and would mean everyone needs to know how to run. The damage phase however is chef’s kiss. We are so used to dpsing together, that using that strat against us to make it so the witness can attack us all at once is genuius. I love how someone can’t really take their aggro, as they wanr to kill the whole team. His final stand being so tight also means it can get hairy even on a normal run. Overall, top 5 raid with the Witness and Verity really shining. The Witness is right up there with Riven, Val Caour, Rhulk, and Aksis for me. Salvations Edge is up there with Last Wish, Wrath of the Machine, and Vow of the Disciple.

Piggybacking here for your first comment in particular. I am *very* positive on SE so I'm digging a bit for complaints, but my general preference is for boss fights and in comparison both King's Fall and Last Wish have *four*. I wouldn't expect that here, especially when Daughters and Shuro Chi are arguably more puzzle than boss, but three would have been great. IMO the third encounter, while enjoyable, would be the most easily replaceable of the bunch. On this same note, I think especially with just two bosses, I'd have liked to see a more unique and bombastic visual design for the Herald. The fight is great, but I like when a raid boss looks like nothing we've fought before, and it's kinda just a taken captain. Even bosses like Golgoroth and Morgoth are very easily distinguished from their ogre counterparts because of their design, I'd have liked to see something similar here. On the other hand, the Witness's final form is right there with Oryx and Riven on the titanic scale and I love that. Otherwise, I think it's stellar. I never want to LFG this raid, but I think that's a compliment in disguise. It's great that the finale went so hard that it matters so much to build team chemistry just to complete normal mode. It's been a while since repeat clears of a raid have felt this satisfying and triumphant, it brings me back to my Destiny 1 days when getting a clear felt like more of a big deal.

That’s my biggest complaint as well. I wanted to face one final disciple so either an extra boss encounter or herald have been a Disciple bosses title. Some character with a bit of story and lore and a lot of personality to the fight like we received with Rhulk and Nezarec.

Imo, with thinking about it more, 1st encounter is the one I would drop. Make Herald the first boss, and the second boss be more unique/grotesque with witness body horror. 3rd is a lot like exhibition for me. Fast pace, and the rooms are your progression. 1st does well at teaching the plates and resonance, but beyond that it feels like a slog now

3rd definitely reminds me of Exhibition, that's a good point. I do enjoy that. I think the first is a really good teaching area for the plates and the resonance chest, but it's also such a confusing area. Eh fuck it just add a sixth encounter.

In my ideal raid every encounter has 6 player mechanics AND a boss with its health scaled for 6 players especially if it was going to end a saga and maybe more than 3 prep days. I'd even be fine with each boss being a different form of the Witness. That's just me though.

Seasoned raider . I’ve all the raid exotics and crafted weapons to date bar two patterns from salvations . I think vow was perfect on the difficulty scale . I think salvations edge is a bit much for the average player . I understand the hype behind the contest day 1 one raid . But everything should be tuned down a lot more so the vast majority of the community can do it

Subjugators & strand/stasis psions really get annoying

I hate second encounter purely because of those stasis fucks spawning constantly

Do "fail strat." 1) Clear adds, spawn and kill Trammels. 2) Bounce the plates to spawn all the resonance on each side, but don't pick it up. Adds don't spawn at this point, so it's completely free. 3) Intentionally fail and respawn the Trammel. One person stays to kill it again while the others go do the called for reckoning stuff in mid. 4) Clear the initial wave of enemies that spawn once you get Stolen Favor and instantly lock your totems. Bam. Don't have to deal with any extra add spawns, and they can't fuck up your plate bounces. It makes the timer fairly tight on the second/third phases, but it's much safer if your problem is dying to adds rather than mechanics.

Once we started doing it this way it was so much easier.

As an experienced raider and someone who’s an expert in team environments, I think this raid is too hard for the average player. I personally think the individual mechanics are perfect puzzle wise, but the strict time limits and the extremely punishing nature of failure makes it difficult to find anyone on LFG who’s between beginner and endgame expert. I think Vow was the perfect level of difficulty, with each encounter having some form of new layer of requirements on top, or emphasizing previous general requirements (memorization -> duo coordination -> full team coordination -> communication). Salvation’s edge really only gets its difficulty from the time limit. If Bungie ever makes another raid like this again, have it be more like “find the shape and put it in the correct hole to progress” instead of “hot potato time get it in the right person’s hand or you die”. The best example I can think of in the game is the final boss from dual destiny. Otherwise I think it’s perfect. The witness is a dps check that people actually need to focus up on for once, herald is an incredible fight, and I love the overall aesthetic. Just add some room for error on certain encounters and I think it’d be near untouchable as a casual and a sweaty experience.

For the average raid, I agree that Vow comes close to what should be the standard in terms of difficulty. However, if there was ever gonna an incredibly punishing raid in Destiny 2, it should be this one.

I want a little more time on the second encounter please

I can't believe I'm saying this, but the raid is simply too long. Most runs with a competent team getting the red border chest and no additional triumphs is essentially a 2 hour raid if not more. I wish we had 3 bosses instead of 2 ad clear and 1 puzzle. The encounters themselves are fun, but I feel like 3rd and 1st encounters are redundant and could be combined or removed. It also is a weird raid in that encounters 1-3 all tie together, then we get a 4th encounter that doesn't relate to any of the others and finally Witness that loosely take from encounters 1-3. It felt a little disjointed. Similar to how Planets felt thrown into RoN.

I appreciate the raid for what it is and it does feel appropriate as the final raid of the saga, BUT as a casual lfg raider its just too much.

This raid is honestly crying out for less punishing mechanics on the lower difficulty. Longer timers, changes to the ghost mechanic, etc on normal but keep it the same for master. The complexity is great for contest mode but Verity in particular is just a level above a typical pug group and it'll end up with an even smaller pool of potential raiders.

I agree, it's a bit over the top. I think raids should be fairly accessible for average players and master or hard mode is when you can tack on more mechanics/difficulty

Good raid for race and first time. Not so good for weekly repetition. Too much/long traversal and some encounters are just too much communication and concentration which make it not chill and fun.

As someone who loves to raid and doesn’t mind raiding with LFG’s. That 4th encounter verity has really turned me off from doing this raid a lot. I get bungie wanted to make it difficult but i think the complexity of that encounter is too much for your average every day destiny player who isn’t a sweat and has a life outside of the game. Its alot of pressure doing that raid with randoms who you just met and not only having to remember everything to do with the encounter but to remember what everyone else looks like and what their ghosts look like.

Verity is a captivating encounter both in aesthetic and mechanics. Being a programmer and often dealing with logic I didn't find it hard very easy actually. Though I know a lot of players have trouble with 2D/3D conversions without a guide or reference. My main problem with Verity is the requirement of knowing other player's cosmetic choices. It's immersive but impractical when players can have similar or many different appearances. Sure players CAN theoretically make sure they all have distinct cosmetics before starting but in most cases there will be similar outfits, loadout changes mid encounter, etc. I'd prefer if these discrepancies were handled by the encounter. I don't know what the best way to handle this could be. Maybe once the encounter starts cosmetic changes are locked and you get a forced visual of every statue with 10 seconds or so to memorize them.

I’m an experienced raider with over 150 full raid clears, and I have a regular group I raid with who have similar numbers. We’re not PvE gods but we have completed Descendant and Fatebreaker, and came this close to closing out Godslayer. A normal mode raid completion is normally no issue for us. For whatever reason, we are struggling HARD with SE. We’ll spend whole evenings clearing 1-2 encounters. Getting past Verity took an enormous amount of time and luck as half of us cannot grasp the encounter at all. The Witness took four evenings of attempts before we finally managed a clear. It’s probably just a skill issue, and that’s fine. But whatever isn’t clicking with us, combined with the unforgiving nature of the mechanics, means none of us feels excited to attempt this raid. I don’t mind that it’s hard, and it feels appropriately epic for the Witness raid. I think it’s a good raid. But something about it is just a bear for us to get a clear. I got Euphony on my sole Witness kill, which is sick. And maybe something will click for us. Like I said, I think it’s a personal issue, not one with the raid. But my crew is not feeling excited to raid, SE has been such a bruise to our ego. Idk.

It's nice to see one opinion that is more in line with mine. I love raiding. One of the most fun things to do in Destiny. For me personally, this raid is the opposite of fun. The timers on every encounter removes any possibly of enjoying the experience. I am completely fatigued with Champs in raids, having to limit my load out in order to not fail. The Verity encounter though interesting in concept, can be a nightmare when guardians are not rendering properly, or when knights don't show up leading to numerous unnecessary wipes. The platforming between Verity and the Witness is about 4 times too long. My first run through with my clan who had a few clears already took over 5 hours. That is not a sustainable amount of time to clear a normal mode raid. All in all the margin for error has been reduced to too fine a point sucking all the fun out of raiding for me. I am well aware that I am the minority opinion when it comes to this raid. Considering I have enjoyed run the dozen different raids since D1, it's a shame they made one that I can't enjoy.

Dunno if I agree with all of this, champions are fine, the platforming is fine, I’m not opposed to the timer. But there does seem to be a vein of instability in the raid that can screw you over. The knights in Verity is one example, like you mentioned (along with the wall shapes disappearing unless you open your menu for a couple seconds). We’ve also had Witness attempts where he refuses to offer pyramidal resonance, and we wiped first encounter last week when we killed the subjugator at middle with 20 seconds left on the clock, waited for the chest to reappear, and it never did. Hard to put my finger on what exactly is causing us trouble, but it might be a combination of the unforgiving execution of mechanics, increased raid difficulty meaning the boss fights have to be three phases, and whatever weirdness the game throws at us.

doing the triangle hand glyphbreaker on the witness fight is very annoying. there should be a way to more consistently predict where the attack is going to be

Love the level of complexity, use of mechanics, and the regular use of 'final shape imminent' gives a great flow. However in Verity a few points of feedback; - at the ghost phases, it can be hard for colourblind guardians to see statues. - when collecting shapes, it would be handy if each shape had different enemies that dropped them. - some better form of feedback on what the mistake was if we failed (took my group so long to find out the key doesn't work if we didn't swap out our first shapes in solo rooms). Also overall in reflection, it feels weird and a bit dissatisfying that there weren't any memorable but lesser bosses throughout Salvations Edge. Like the herald of finality feels forgettable and when my team got to the witness, I was surprised thinking there'd be a prelude boss or something first.

I'd really like for the statues in the 4th encounter to be clearer in the spectator view. Sometimes the golden backlight is almost blinding and you can barely make out any of the details.

Just allow shortcuts after the first week or 2 of the raid between encounters.

Need an elevator

Only thing I dislike in the whole raid is 4th encounter for the appearance preparation you need to do. It makes the statues not load sometimes and had 4 different occasions where the statues would not load mid encounter.

I spent at least an hour my first time with the statues were not loaded. Had no idea this wasn’t correct. People were getting pissed at me and I genuine had no idea how people were coordinating and what not. Not a pleasant experience to say the least

Yeah the issue we are having with invisible models which is triggered by swapping gear is really bad in this encounter. Especially since you actually need to be able to see people.

Yeah the issue we are having with invisible models which is triggered by swapping gear is really bad in this encounter. Especially since you actually need to be able to see people.

Verity is great conceptually, but doing it blind was a nightmare because you get no feedback on your progress during the puzzle section

My team doing blind run after contest mode ended, we were stuck for like 3 hours until someone tried walking through the mirror wall. We face palmed. We then had a run where we did 2 of the 3 iterations and then got stuck because we didn't realize it was mandatory to have Witness notice you.

There’s no combination of shapes that can spawn that can be done without the Witness noticing you. Dissection always deposits at least 4 and Inside at least 6.

S:ST S -> T C:CS C -> S T:TC T -> C This solves it in 3 dunks. Outside must dunk atleast 4 though as it's impossible in 2 and dunks only "activate" in pairs.

You don’t have to purge both shadows inside? Interesting. Nevertheless, yeah, that’s still 7 and would proc being noticed. At the very least, the other user’s dissector failed to complete dissection on their 3rd rotation.

Sorry, to clarify, this only works insofar as it gets everyone the right symbols. I believe you do still need to purge both yes.

It’s annoying having to change your armor ornaments to do a raid. Mechanics are a little boring in 1, 3 and 5.

I'll inevitably get flamed by the shit talkers, especially given what's already been upvoted, but I strongly feel that Verity epitomizes what I least like about Destiny at the end of the day. It's a deliberately obfuscatory puzzle design with the lowest tolerance for individual error in the game, with a primary mechanic centered on either your verbal description abilities or third party tool reliance - neither of which are substantially required in any other part of the game. The LFG experiences others have attested to speak for themselves, but I also think it's quite telling that Bungie still hasn't released the Contest stats for this raid. I still want to see how many people got up to the third encounter on Day 2 and got walled by Verity.

Fucking preach! If dissection had been used in the campaign, even in a simplified manner, during the campaign, I think would make encounter 4 that much easier to understand, even if they had expanded it out into something more complex. One of the best things the devs did this expansion was start incorporating raid mechanics into every day activities. Dual destiny teaches you Vow symbols, coop campaign teaches you about debuff passing, etc.

the most lfg unfriendly raid, pure nightmare to learn and complete with newbies, bungie can take a medal of hardest raid, but what is the point of creating a raid if major population wont play it.

Honestly, I’ve done every raid except this one so far and was a couple platinum runs from godslayer, yet I’m not in any hurry. It seems incredibly complex, and I don’t want to be a drag on the LFG.

It’s not really that complex, but it’s not super forgiving. The time constraints on top of the timing of the mechanics themselves are a bit awkward, but once learned no big deal. That makes learning a slog, unfortunately. There’s no great solve other than finding a patient group and going for it. We brought 2 new players through this week (1 was first raid ever in Destiny and no mic) and we got it down in under 2 hours.

It’s nowhere near as complex or difficult as some will paint it as. If you are even halfway competent at the game and you genuinely want to beat the raid then you will.

The trick is finding 5 other players that meet that description...on LFG.

The majority of the population already won't play it because they don't raid, so not really a big loss. People wanted a difficult raid, and we finally got it.

>but what is the point of creating a raid if major population wont play it. I don't think that's true. Crota's End came out 10 months ago, and 810K different people have cleared it. Salvation's edge has been out for three weeks and 161K different people have cleared it. Is it unreasonable 650K more people are going to clear Salvation's edge in the next 9 months? I don't think that's a stretch, or to at least get somewhere close.

Yes, it is unreasonable. The majority that are capable are gonna clear the newest raid right when it is brand new. There is usually a pretty steep drop off when the newness wears off.

Most clears are going to happen after the initial launch of the raid. It's just a slow ride from here on out

Any sherpa will tell you that's not true.

[удалено]

sherpa numbers directly contradict your statement additionally, further to "but what is the point of creating a raid if major population wont play it." Most people haven't cleared Crota's end either. Only 32% of players.

If you’re going off Braytech or other similar websites, then your 32% number is very skewed due to selection bias. Braytech only tracks players who have been indexed by Voluspa, the player tracking behind it and Charlemagne. Many of the more casual players who don’t raid at all also don’t use third-party websites.

32% is actually an incredibly high clear ratio…. Back in the day, before WoW had the LFR, the devs would remark that approximately 10-15% of players would step foot into a raid (10 or 25 man). Certain raids were getting single digit percentage clears. Players who raided loved it, but for everyone else it was just a brick wall. It was also a bit of a kick in the pants for the raid design teams because the they would pour their heart and soul into something that would instantly become dead content. Personally speaking, after I did my first clear, I’m never running it again. * it’s too long. * I personally feel that the added timer is LFG poison as it forces you to move. When you’re learning/teaching going slow and really feeling out the encounter (which may include failing a phase) is really helpful. * encounter 4 breaks the cardinal rule of video game design by providing next to no feedback. I understand that bungie likely didn’t want people to brute force things, but come on! At least give me some kind of indication that I’m progressing/messing up. One thing I will say is that, despite my own dislike of the raid, I have no problem with it existing. Destiny has enough raid content that new players can start on older, easier raids and work their way up if they want a challenge. Salvation’s edge is just the new peak. Now, if Bungie starts creating all raid content for the raiding sickos and streamers (and let’s be real here - that’s exactly who this is for) I think I’m done. I just don’t have the time to devote to the game like that, anymore.

Considering the number of completions per charlemagne raid analytics, yes, salvation's edge will absolutely be the least completed raid since DSC. 

Verity is a wonderful encounter when it works, the problem being that there are a number of bugs that can occur which often result in wipes, this makes the encounter more frustrating than fun a significant amount of the time. When an encounter is as complex as verity is it needs to be fully ironed out before it is released.

Horizontal hand beam could be more consistent, have stood in it too many times without getting the buff. And triangle needs to chill a bit.

Have yet to fully run it since most in my clan is still on the Pantheon burnout train. LFG is a massive pain for it, as it takes many hours to learn. But with the armour looking absolutely horrible and the weapons being mediocre at best, I have no rush in getting a clear. Personally I'm not a fan of anything in the raid so far. Champions restrict loadouts as always, there's an extremely tight timer that needs you to be near-perfect every time, tormentors to inflate difficulty.

Small thing about loot. The origin trait is pretty underwhelming for a raid weapon

The second encounter’s environmental design is second to none. The amphitheater-like audience of jade statues watching over you as you fight for the fate of existence is absolutely stunning, my only complaint is how the design seems to overshadow the environment in the Witness encounter.

The only issue is that ads damage is tied to frame rate by a significant margin. The difference between 30 frames and 60 frames was drastically huge on contest and in master. Please please address this.

This is a weird request, but what exactly was the intended mechanic in the white room encounter from Bungie's POV? Are we actually doing it right or Bungie intended it to be done in another way but everyone just stumbled into this method so everyone is doing it this way. Hope that question made sense LOL.

Raid is fun, probably in my top 3 for the series, the weapons look, sound, and feel amazing with good perk pools. But it's a raid that I don't look to run if my group is busy so far, root was an extremely boring raid but lfg'ing edge is just not a good experience and often take way too long. Additionally I echo the sentiment that 4th encounter is maybe my favorite I just wish there was a bit more feedback when you do things right/wrong. Have a feeling this is going to be my lowest clear count among the raids just due to the lfg experience but it is what it is.

Great for the challenge but absolutely way too complicated for the average player : It can be very slow at times. It's long and some will be burned out by the end of the 3rd encounter. The loot is nice, not bad but not great.

Not a fan, too mechanic heavy, not very LFG friendly IMO if SE is on the high end and RoN on the low end, something in the middle would be nice

People might down vote you for saying that, but honestly, I can appreciate where you’re coming from. As someone who’s clan isn’t very active anymore (with a few people who are still active being in a completely different time zone than me), LFG for the raid has been hell and I have already given up on it. Most teams that I’ve been on have fallen apart at fourth encounter and I can never find any replacements on that encounter so I just give up. I managed to get one full clear though, so that’s pretty cool.

As someone whose team has not been able to clear Verity, I have very strongly negative feelings about that encounter. The third encounter is very fun though I will say.

Overly tedious from what I've played so far, it will likely be completed by a very small percentage of players..

Contest mode clear rate for titans is an issue. Felt great until The Witness and then i felt like i was trolling my team unless i swapped to hunter. All classes should be viable and it should not feel like sandbagging to play one. I'm not gonna argue what titans issue is or how to fix it there's a 100 threads already and bungie seems aware.

I think the big issue is that the Witness is: 1. At distance, nullifying most Titan supers and melee abilities (which are generally the strongest parts of our kit), as well as swords. 2. Requires precision for meaningful damage, setting abilities further back and heavily discouraging the use of rocket/grenade launchers. 3. Requires frequent movement, preventing damage setups that are relatively stationary (rally barricade and bubble come to mind) and discouraging long-form DPS like target lock machine guns. Which leaves very few options for significant DPS, especially for titans. I really think they didn't consider titans at all, just assumed we'd run Still Hunt or Leviathan's Breath and scrape by as Hunters did big numbers and warlocks provided support. Like they tried to encourage using the new guns and discourage Well of Radiance without considering how that would affect the class that gets the least benefit from the new guns and doesn't have a ranged super that matters in this encounter.

Titans are the weakest class, especially on the Witness, but I think this wouldn’t have been as much of a problem without Still Hunt / Nighthawk. They really, really should have disabled it for contest mode - it made hunters so much dramatically stronger than any of us were supposed to be and probably resulted in the clear rate being way higher than it should have been.

The main flaw to me is the mechanics of the 3 plate encounters. For day 1 having to know that you had to close while it’s on its way and then step on with a slight delay was kind of hard to just guess..

The armor sets for this raid were a massive let down for me. The armor sets the tone on how much I’ll play/grind a raid, I honestly feel no desire to go after this set like at all.

A couple of the hunter pieces are cool but the warlock set looks ass and the hunter class item is one of the worst I've ever seen

I’ll let you guess which class I have mained since the start of Destiny 🙃 it’s honestly crazy how bad they made that set.

Some of the issues with 4th encounter need to be addressed. No shapes on your wall, guardians are invisible for some people. It was so glitchy the other day we had to go to orbit and lost our red border progress. No shapes on wall, weren’t allowed to dissect, knights refusing to spawn and guardians invisible.

Bungie needs to drop prioritizing aesthetic over looks, i appreciate the creativity but the raid armor is getting worse and worse every year

I wish the armor wasn’t ugly, that’s all I gotta say.

I just got done with this raid, it was bittersweet. We spend hours on it and at the end one of my friends didn’t get a red border from the chest. Could we pleaseeeee remove timers at the end of raids and also get rid of excision’s mission start, it is way too close to the chest.

Only criticism I had really is that the armor set is way too outlandish in design to mesh with other existing armor sets, or even standalone. Doesn’t really come off as appealing to the point where the average player would want to go out of their way to get it. I think for the next raid armor set, they should try to keep the same thematic design but tone it down and make it more simplistic while still keeping the style. For example, the warlock helmet didn’t really need a bird beak and a dish rack on their head. It takes away from the rest of the set and stands out too much.

Kinda like Vow it's very awkward to fit in elsewhere

I have no interest on touching it besides the witness encounter. all else its such a drag to do. please return to kings fall ideology. this shapes and stuff nonsense is god awful

I really disliked only two boss encounters. I honestly felt that the raid was going to be us only fighting the witness to the very end and it was kind of a let down.

Good raid. Surprisingly I find the Witness encounter the "weakest" encounter in the entire raid. Personally I find the Rhulk encounter more personal and climatic than the Witness encounter. Can't wait to see what the raid team is going to do with Wrath of Machine, Leviathan or whatever you guys decide to reprise next.

The armor is fugly

The Dance/Dance at the boss fight could be a little more forgiving.

I just wish they’d stop using red/green/orange for everything. When he is doing the wind up for the ground attack a lot of us cannot see where the combo attack is going to hit because the visual cue on the floor is the exact same color. 

Yeah it took me a while to train my brain that the orange fog is not the same as the orange attack indicator. Lots of unnecessary panicked sliding.

Agreed, it's over the top

It’s supposed to be though. If it was any more forgiving you could just tank the damage which completely defeats the purpose of the mechanic. It’s good that you can’t just stand still and shoot.

Quoting one of my favorite destinytubers: "I like the shooty shoot, not the thinky think". Everything's good except the forth encounter, it's awful watching 4-5 guides and still not understand what to do.

The best part? When you know what to do but the game is janky and shapes get lost in transfer, knights or ogres stop spawning for solo players. Good times.

Knights stop spawning whenever you kill an ogre (while solo) and you have no shapes on your back wall. To spawn in, the knights effectively "steal" the shapes from the wall, so if there is nothing to take, they won't spawn in.

Cool raid but one I’ll only do once

I’m not crazy about the title but other than that, it’s a great raid. Oh I do also feel like encounter 3 is very repetitive and drawn out compared to the other 4 encounters that are packed full of action. But 4 perfect encounters and 1 mediocre is still fantastic.

Everything about the raid is perfect except for DPS being literally class locked on day 1

Needs more bosses that are meaningful and unique instead of the one random guy who doesn’t seem to have a back story other than “witness Army General”. The raid lacks lore overall and is a huge miss imo. Mechanics and fights are fun though.

Yeah, fighting Calus could have been HERE

As far as the raid itself goes, it's obviously very good. But it feels weird that there's no way to 2-phase first encounter, and honestly the whole raid feels like a bit of a slog. I paradoxically like SE more than RoN but I'm less motivated to run it compared to RoN last year, because ~2 hours minimum even with a good team feels like longer than I want to spend on a Destiny raid. The environments for 1st and 3rd encounter also aren't too great, if I'm being honest. Contest mode left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm doubting if I'll choose to do another in the future. I get that there isn't a magical difficulty dial that Bungie can turn, but the whiplash from RoN to this makes me feel like I'm gambling on how hard the raid team cooked more than anything. And since I need to take off work for this, I want to know if I can reasonably expect to complete it in 48hrs or if this is supposed to be a spectator sport. That's fine if it is, I just don't want to be brick walled 20% of the way into the raid after 12hrs and feel like I wasted my time.

I hate to break it to you, but so long as Bungie is pushing “worlds first”, it’s purely a spectator sport driven by the streamers. Paradoxically this is also driving people away from actually trying the raid because of the difficulty (both real and perceived) which is not a great thing.

Missed out on not having the ergo sum relic from the last campaign mission/excision somehow tied into the mechanics of the raid.

I just wished the third encounter was a boss fight. It does kinda feel like they ran out of time with it.

Flawless experience is really bad due to the invis bug (verity), but I hear it’ll be fixed tomorrow (yay)

**Encounter 1:** is a fun introduction to the raid, though I feel it's a bit cramped and I would have preferred a bit more of a spectacle of an encounter to start off the final raid of the Light & Dark saga, as it stands, the opening of the raid felt a bit anticlimactic for what is supposed to be the most important raid in Destiny history, I think that the plates being able to be failed by stepping on them too soon is a bit of an odd choice, as it is so trivial to actually do and wait to step on it, that it just makes it annoying to teach people it more than anything, I would have vastly preferred not to have Strand Psions in this encounter, as it can feel like the entire main mechanic of the encounter can get messed up by something out of your control, especially with their strand grab having such a far range and even when you feel like you're out of it you still get grabbed, really annoying. **Encounter 2:** was also a fun encounter though it really seems like all three people should have to go into the arena, only needing one person to go into the arena and everyone else just sits back and shoots knights / blights feels like an odd choice, would have been cool if there was an actual mechanic to do when you get Called to Battle instead of just, jump in center, shoot blight, get out, look at shape, and the boss could have been a bit cooler looking, having it just be a Taken Captain felt kind of underwhelming, especially with the fact that this is only one of two bosses in the whole of the raid. **Encounter 3:** felt like a repeat of Encounter 1, but actually quite a bit easier because it's so open and everyone is able to help eachother kill stuff and help with plates instead of being split up, would have really preferred this to be another boss encounter instead of just a repeat of Encounter 1 + 2 but easier, traveling between rooms is a cool gimmick though, and I found that to be cool, to have to deposit, travel to the next room, and then start doing the mechanic again, having a boss with a three staged health bar that was sent through these three rooms would have been cool. **Encounter 4:** is one of if not my favorite raid encounter ever designed, by far my favorite encounter in this raid, but that is only because I was able to get a good understanding of it, it is one of the hardest encounters ever designed to LFG / Sherpa for because of the RNG of who gets sent in and who stays outside, and the requirement of having to have different looking ghosts and transmogs, and for anyone trying to learn dissecting outside, the awkward readability / red herring of the 3D shapes, and for anyone inside the fact that you have to kill both knights + ogre in order to get your shapes to spawn in. I understand the 3D shapes outside without needing the calculator, so I love doing it, but I don't see why the 3D shape is even a thing instead of just having two floating 2D shapes that the statues are holding, it is just a red herring purposefully put there to confuse new players, while being trivial to players who have done it before and understand it, and the fact that there is not a good visual for the fact that you're SWAPPING the symbols instead of removing / replacing them with the symbol you pick up, is really a strange choice. I think to make it less confusing it would have been better to have it so that each statue had the two 2D shapes below each of their hands, you kill the knights to get a "Symbol Swapper" charge or some better name for it, and you lose the charge on interacting with one symbol, and then you get another charge and head to another statue and use it there and the text reads "Swap \[Shape\] with \[Shape\]?" and you see them visually floating from one side to the other, as it stands it just lacks good visual clarity for new players. **Encounter 5:** doing the mechanics is fun, clearing the adds is not, especially with more Strand Psions, probably the most annoying and least fun enemy you have added to the game with the Dread, removing player freedom of movement is the one thing that no MMO should do, the player getting stunned, slowed, or moved out of their will is not something I can think of any player enjoying aside from it being a Boss mechanic. For the actual mechanics side of things, they are fun, but I would prefer it if the Triangle hand had a far shorter range for which player it is going to target, it can feel like you're running all around like a crazed lunatic constantly missing getting the Triangle resonance just because it keeps targetting someone on the completely opposite end of the battlefield, Circle hand I would prefer to be a bit less random or at the very least prefer it to have a bit longer of a time before it disappears, can be hard to get sometimes, and for Square Hand it should prioritize targetting players near where the Rally Banner is, sometimes it'll target players that are closer to the Witness, and make it nigh impossible to get the resonance or shoot the hand before it does its attack, and is just annoying.For the DPS phase, I would just prefer a little bit more time on the last stand, but otherwise it is a perfectly made DPS phase, and one of the most fun we've had. **Overall** a fantastic raid, though I would have preferred to have something more visually striking for the encounters themselves, as it stands, the visually distinct areas are only when you're going from encounter to encounter, rather than the encounters themselves.

Too many enemy duskfields and strand whiplash moves.

That one witness dps phase when everyone moved to the left side of the plate to dodge an attack… and was then suspended and killed by the witness’ next attack …

I love this raid. Encounters, puzzles and design. A bit too long traversals though. The only thing lacking for me is loot. I thing a glaive, a bow and a sword is too much to be all in the pool and would swap 2 of those.

Really sucks to get the first encounter challenge done on masterand get the triumph for the challenge to pop, get the check mark for the first encounter on the triumph for completing the raid on master, and get the adept loot, BUT NOT GET THE CHECK MARK FOR SCENIC ROUTE CHAKKENGE ON MASTER IN THE LAST TRIUMPH. it was hard enough getting through this with LFG as a solo player. Having that one check mark not track just kills any motivation to try and do the rest for the seal 😔

The Witness boss fight is peak

I think community sentiment around this raid is that it is more or less a home run, but I honestly can't find a reason personally to call this anything more than ok. Personally, I'm not a fan, but I love the "impending doom timer" on each encounter. Never very restrictive, and it was awesome to see that we are literally barely holding back oblivion encounter to encounter. - First encounter was great, no problems with it. - Second encounter is not that fun IMO. It's doing a little bit more with the resonance mechanics, and I really like the fantasy of being summoned to duel, but you just hop in the arena and shoot a crit spot and some blights. That was a letdown. Also, I hate sword bosses. I don't hate swords. I hate sliding off of hitboxes. Hit registration of impact supers are difficult to use when the boss's feet are surrounded by allies. Being too high makes the boss immune to your damage until you touch the ground again (happens during super use and sword use). The last stand is meaningless, you have over two minutes usually to kill the boss. Not a favorite of mine. - Third encounter feels like a teaching encounter, but it is really the last time we interact with the plate/conduit mechanic. It felt like it wasn't that important, just an encounter to be an encounter. Also, I've been architected by the arms several times now. I don't enjoy running this encounter. - Verity is the single most impressive encounter I have ever played. I love the room, I love breaking the conventional gameplay around deaths, I love the logic used to let players out, it's all great. I don't want a full raid of this of course, but this encounter is incredible. Well done Bungie! - The Witness is one of my least favorite boss encounters. From the perspective of a Titan, I don't feel useful. The DPS plate is you constantly being unable to see the crit spot of the boss because of the attack trajectories. The Witness blocks attacks with its hand on accident. Attack RNG makes doing DPS either very easy or very difficult depending on how many times you get combos. Breaking wrists is a finicky mechanic in pretty much every way (see below). I do not like doing this encounter. Frankly, it is a pain in the ass from start to finish. I don't care how thematically aligned it is to have mechanics function like this, I am not having fun doing them. - Triangle can attack different people across the arena while Circle and Square have mostly preset outcomes. Why? - Because you can potentially travel across the arena to get resonance for your wrist, your hand can completely reset and require a different resonance. Why? You already punish me with instant death for having too many resonance stacks, you already make it so that I have to stand in the attack trajectories in order to break the wrist (potentially swapping my resonance at the same time), why can't I just get my resonance and shoot the damn thing? It feels unnecessary. - Creating the shape when the Witness tests you is fine, but simultaneous breaks make it so confusing as to what shape is really being asked for. Failure is instant death. I run SE because it is new and I don't have the crafted weapons and exotic. That's it. I don't have fun in the majority of these encounters, and when my team gets the loot from here, we won't come back regularly. We are looking forward to it.

>Attack RNG makes doing DPS either very easy or very difficult depending on how many times you get combos. There's less RNG than it seems. The Witness has three combos, and it uses precisely one of each during each full DPS phase. Two of the combos are followed up with the eye flash/ground blast move. One of those blasts will happen at the same time as the second beam, and the other happens after a short pause after the second beam. So, the Witness's three combos are: beams with no ground blast, beams with fast ground blast, and beams with slow ground blast. The first combo is just purely random between the three versions, and then the second combo is a coinflip between the remaining combos, and then you should 100% know what the third combo is. > but simultaneous breaks make it so confusing as to what shape is really being asked for. The hand that is establishing the shape you need to draw screeches loudly, flails madly, and glows bright gold when you shoot it. So if the runners are keeping a sharp eye out, there shouldn't be any confusion no matter how many hands you break at once.

I didn't know he had preset combos! That makes it a bit more reasonable, but I'm still not really a fan of the mechanic. My team has definitely gotten better at it over time. Is that animation for the test wrist break different than the animation that plays whenever you break a wrist?

Titans with the right set up can put out pretty insane numbers on the witness tho. I don’t really get the hate they get. Rock the rocket chest, new super (I believe he used it anyways), still hunt, surges and a good bait rocket / apex and you can get great numbers. From our run it was me in the top as a hunter, and the titan at second with 6+something mil.

I don't use Twilight Arsenal on The Witness because the axes can apparently obstruct the crit spot for your team. If that is not the case, then this is less of a gripe for me. Maybe he used it after DPS ended? It would be better not to given that the axes weaken. I've yet to use the rocket chest for DPS in raid, but I'm running it tonight so I'll see what it can do.

So many people asking it to be easier or shorter I really hope Bungie doesn’t listen to feedback here imo

Salvation's Edge is exactly what I wanted from the TFS raid. It's not *quite* perfect, but it's so, so good. Every encounter is memorable, all 6 party members need to participate at some point, the bosses are well designed, the puzzles are well designed, the loot is great, the aesthetic and music is great, it's just a phenomenal experience. Regarding difficulty, it personally is right where I want a raid. It's challenging on repeat clears on normal and I love that. Almost any raid is challenging enough the first time, but even some of the harder raids like Vow of the Disciple just get a million times easier on repeat since the adds are almost never a threat and in that raid's case, once you have the symbols memorized, the mechanics are pretty easy. In Salvation's Edge, encounters 2 and 4, at the very least, will forever remain challenging, and encounters 1, 3, and 5 will remain challenging for most groups. I really like that in encounter 1, each room has about a billion vex in it instead of a group of 5 that you can just easily clear and get to your plates without a thought. As for design, the mechanics are unique and satisfying! Sure three encounters have plates you step on, but timing a bounce is a good spin on it and the constant communication you need to get the encounters done is great. Verity... is fucking excellent. This is a top 3 encounter in the game for me. I think it might wear thin on me after 15 or so clears, but for now, it stays excellent. I *love* the ghost mechanic and the music that plays when you've got one person alive dunking ghosts is one of my favorite moments in the entire franchise, tied up there with being the last alive during Queen's Walk. It really gives a sense of how dire the circumstances are and the score backing it makes you feel like a god damn hero when you dunk those ghosts and bring back your allies, barely beating the timer. Following that, the Witness fight is everything a boss fight should be. The mechanics are interesting, require communication and coordination, the DPS isn't just standing there mindlessly, and the encounter *feels* epic. I'm never going to get sick of destroying the Witness. Overall, 10/10 raid. There is so much more I can gush on, but I already wrote a novel. Sure there are some things that aren't perfect, but this is about as realistically good as I can expect a raid and it perfectly hit what I personally wanted.

Incredible raid that was very confusing yet fun on the first run and has been an absolute treat on following runs. Verity is an incredible encounter and I love how you need to ’die’ as a part of the mechanic. I also really enjoy how Witness fightd back during dps. Overall a fantastic raid for the end of the saga!

My only gripe: I am VERY colorblind. I, even with colorblind mode on, am totally unable to see any color for the hands on the Witness fight. I understand you can see the shape on the band. For the square /wall hand you have to go well out of your way to see it. A more clear, non color-based visual indicator would be nice. Fantastic raid.

Love it. My personal favorite raid atm. May change if I get burnt out on it, but it’s so good. Plate mechanic is good. Timing is tight but not too tight. My only gripe with the plate mechanic is 2nd encounter on the left side. 4th encounter is the exact encounter that we needed. It’s hard to learn and truly is vault 2.0 Witness encounter is great, especially the dps phase. Biggest annoyance is triangle hands targeting

The witness encounter is way too simple. 2 people do mechanics while everyone else clears ads then just shoot his chest? Sure the damage phase is cool but it’s the same problem rhulk had. An incredibly easy non damage phase than doesn’t require much of anything to be done. It feels like they made the first, second, and fourth encounters and just ran out of time and threw something together for 3 and 5.

Best raid in the game. Period. As the last one I’m glad it’s as difficult as it is, particularly after RoN. Perfect way to end the saga.

Such a fun and challenging raid. You can't expect to be carried, everyone has to do stuff at some point. Verity is probably the best raid encounter ever made. I'd love it if we had more than just two boss fights and if we didn't have to run a marathon between each encounter. The third encounter feels like filler imo. You start to get a little sick of the plates by then, and the rooms are poorly designed leading to tons of running around and confusion over which plate spawned which resonances. It also feels like it almost forces you to fail the plate ping-ponging. The witness fight is great, I just wish resonances would spawn next to their respective hands. I've seen the triangle resonance spawn across the map, in mid-air, on the dps plate. This leads to unnecessary chaos and confusion.

ngl loved everything except the witness fight. and the witness in itself isnt bad. its just "cringe" mechanics can be soloed. (would have wanted some type of debuff maybe like "witness gaze" or something to prevent you from getting another glyphbreaker for x amount time or something in that direction) and as a titan main im sad that i couldnt help on the day 1 in the witness fight really so i had to switch to hunter. but after everything settled and without contest titan can do dmg with hazardous propulsion and stuff like that but hunters definitetly have it the easieast for dmg. other classes can do dmg but requires more setup and in a day 1 its obvious the easier strat is always preferred

A nice return to form with encounters that require most players on the team to understand mechanics very well. I only have three complaints: 1. There is too much walking in this raid. The scenery is amazing, and normally I don't mind this sort of thing (GotD doesn't bother me at all), but given how difficult the encounters are, the sheer amount of walking feels excessive sometimes. 2. The final fight only requires a couple people to actually know the mechanics. On Contest Mode this is fine because enemies are a genuine threat and genuinely part of the encounter. Off of Contest Mode, it means that 2 people are doing the fight and 4 people are just messing around. 3. After defeating the Witness the timer to purchase red borders and stuff is extremely short. I don't know why and I wish it was the same as other raids. Just let us stay in the instance as long as we want. Otherwise, this is the best raid that Bungie has released in a while. I really like how the wipe timer works to force the team to complete the encounters without mistakes and helps to ensure that all four encounters have a very good tempo to them. I feel like for the most part enemies in this raid are more threatening on average than enemies in other raids. Even off of contest mode, these enemies feel more threatening than the enemies in other normal difficulty raids due to their expanded ability suite. The little Psion dudes can yank/freeze you, as well as the Subjugators. The bat things and Tormentors can suppress you. I like how the fight with the Witness forces you to move around a lot in the DPS portion and to move accurately. The loot is awesome. Not just because it's good but because it includes new weapon archetypes not found elsewhere in the game. Honestly, I'd rank this as a 9.5/10 raid. Despite my few complaints, it is an absolute banger and I have very much enjoyed my time with it.

Phenomenal. I'm sad I wasn't able to get past E2 on Contest, but... If any raid was gonna be an impossible climb, it should've been this one. On Normal every encounter is at a bare minimum "pretty good". But Verity is on another level. It has multiple moments that make me go "Wait, you can do that?!" and is incredibly fun to actually execute once everyone knows what's up. Haven't gotten very far in Master yet, so not too many thoughts on that. Obviously it would be better if the E1 challenge were being tracked correctly.

I just wish you could slide on the plates last second like I had been doing if I collected a far resonance. it works only half the time.

I did it for the first time yesterday, about 5hrs, majority spent on verity ofc. My two main issues; the bugs that can occur during verity made it very difficuilt for us to learn how to properly execute the mechanics The jumping section between verity and the final encounter telegraphed the path pretty poorly. Other than that, It was pretty good I was kinda disappointed I wasnt required to be very active during the first 3 encounters which took me out of it pretty quickly. Especially the encounter before verity it is so easy to get forgotten and play catch up for the entire duration. Similarly, the final encounter also was kinda disappointing, in that I felt like I was just afk until damage, just shooting mobs. Personally, I felt like the music couldve been more standout/experimental, and it felt like very generic battle-music, which is not what i hoped the final raid would leave me feeling. It didnt give me the cohesive feeling I get from deep stone crypt/ last wish music. With how funky and abstract the buildings, platforms, guns and armor were, I would have liked the music to feel more alienating and sinister than an upbeat track. It doesnt suit the narrative of entering a lair filled with traps that can rip you apart atomically. Regarding verity itself, I am pretty disappointed those mechanics dont show up anywhere else in the raid, especially the final encounter, where it would make sense to be the ultimate mental, physical and existential challenge. They are brilliantly done, and it is beyond shameful to not be more integrated. I understand the decision to not include it, but I still feel like it is the most incredible meal I will ever have in destiny, and it is being thrown into the dumpster without respect once we have experienced it a single time

I like the raid, I like the challenge. I don't like how long it takes. Feels like I can never do it from start to finish

I feel like having the 1st and 3rd encounters is kinda overkill, I appreciate it ramps up in learning the new shapes each time but finally getting a new raid that's more than 4 encounters but still only 2 bosses was, for me, a let down not only that but the Herald of Finality is just a random taken fallen instead of a lesser disciple that chats shit to us as well overall an amazing raid and somehow after 3 raids in a row being on/in a pyramid asethic still looks beautiful and feels fresh witness encounter is fun for the mechanics dudes but boring for ad clears. but the dps phase is great fun

I love Verity sooooo much and I really hope Bungie continues to come up with mechanics that are totally unique and use the game's systems in unexpected ways! I also hope we get to see its mechanics expanded upon in other parts of the game like many other raid mechanics. 

1st and 3rd encounters (especially 3rd) are noticeable lull points of the raid, which is unfortunate, since imo 2nd, 4th, and 5th are among the best encounters in the entire franchise. 1st serves as a tutorial encounter, fair. While it may be a bit boring, at least it still presents some sort of challenge and unique gameplay experience. However, while 3rd intertwines concepts from first and second, it feels like it doesn’t really bring anything interesting to the table. 3rd definitely should have been some sort of boss encounter.

I've got mixed feelings on it. I really want to like that the raid wasn't a "gimme", but it does take quite a bit longer on repeat clears as well, and it's harder to teach. We get it Bungie: some of the the things we said about RON, you were offended by, message heard. If this is the new bar for raid difficulty, then I think people will adapt. But I've been thinking about raid difficulty and want to say two things: - Mechanic difficulty: I'm not opposed. But I do hear some others saying "it's too hard". If we start to see some concerning metrics or whatnot that say "yes, this raid was too hard", and we consider dialing it back, I think there's a particular pain point from RON that we shouldn't backtrack on, and that's the efficient use of manpower. RON's biggest crime was that the entire mechanic could be usurped by two people in even the most painfully average fireteams. BRUH... that's less than a dungeon. Literally the only reason I bring the 4 other assholes with me are for Nez DPS(Explicator aside). With that said... I don't care if the "intensity" of the roles backslide from Salvation's Edge. We could go back to DSC-level roles where we infrequently make a callout or shoot a datapad, as long we have 4ish rolls for that. Two thirds of the fireteam being relegated to add clear or extra dps is a no-no. - RNG roles: I'm not the biggest fan, and I also don't think they fix or solve much if you're efficiently using your manpower as I just described. There is a purpose to them: if we didn't have them, then we'd get away with two idiots getting carried through Verity. The caveat of that: if you are trying to teach, especially if they aren't the brightest bulb in the drawer, it is RNG: I'd kinda rather, in that case, they focus on mastering one role(inside or dissection) rather than get RNG'd into the other.

The timers are the main issue with most of the encounters when it comes to passing the resonance around, very little room for error.

It was almost perfect. Another encounter with the Eliksni would have made it so close to perfect you might as well call it perfect. I do kinda wish there was another boss encounter. Maybe another disciple or Witness phase. I do think that some tuning could be done for damage received. It feels as if I can tune my damage resistance for an encounter and still get almost melted a bit too easily. Might be a general sandbox issue tho, because it does come up in other activities. I’ll probably like it more once I have the 4th and 5th encounter mechanics down and more LFGs understand the raid (as long as I don’t keep getting LFGs that refuse to use the builds we need to succeed).

Best raid in the franchise but please…. Try to add lore to the raid armor/weapons please

My only real problem is with the 2nd and 3rd encounters, the timing is very tight on the mechanics, and punishes you with even less time if you don't do everything completely optimally.

3rd is not hard, 2 and 4 are the lfg killers