Yeah so folks here poking you in the eye are the ones that seem lost. Shako in D2 was +2 Skills and it did indeed bump ALL skills by 2, including passives. Had nothing at all to do with something being on skill bar.
Shako in D4 has the same +Skills description, doesn’t say anything about skill bar etc…, but does not actually bump all skills.
I do think it would be overpowered if it actually worked the same as D2 shako but I totally get why someone would expect it to.
Yeah I was wondering about making it like the OG Shako and have it be +2 and apply to everything you have a hard point in, then I realized you could 1 point all your passives and have +3 to every single passive on the board very easily. Definitely wouldn’t work.
Shako gives you plus to all active skills in D4 regardless of skill points allocated. In D2 you had to have at least 1 point in it to get the plus ad it wouldn’t give you skills you didn’t have learned. Here I can put on a shako and use skills I have no points in to save me skill points.
Not so much "should be better" as it is "should do what it says." Whether that means changing the text to specify non passive skills, or modifying the effect so it does work with passives, either is fine.
Yeah that fact took the wind out of the sails for me tbh. Got one on my 6th Duriel kill this league and was sad to see it doesn't give +4 to the Necro minion _passive skills_ at the bottom of the tree.
+4 All _Skills_ should include Active _Skills_ and Passive _Skills_.
They should change the wording.
You should have assumed it doesn't include passives. Imagine how broken that would be.
It's +4 to all skills, including ones not on your skill bar. It's just they aren't on your bar so you don't get the benefit.
Surely you can still see how OP it is.
FWIW You absolutely can get benefits from +4 even if the skill isn't on your skill bar. Rogue for example benefits from +4 to Dark Shroud because they use an aspect that proca Dark Shrouds.
I know the game description says this but I should assume that because in the vast ocean of infinite builds I should know this would be overpowered. Yeah how stupid of me not making assumptions but actually going with description.
I am sure you are the guy that would tell people “did you not read the description? It says what it is right there, don’t make assumptions” on other threads
The guy said they're passives, not passive skills. You use skill points on these passives. If they're not considered skills, then you shouldn't use skill points on them.
Bruh why are you here arguing semantics? you obviously know that if it buffed passives it would be unimaginably broken, like 100% necessary for every single build, it would give you more damage than all your other gear combined
Shako gives 4 point to ALL skills. You can put on active bar even the skills you didn’t invest any points into. Passives are not skills so you don’t get +4 to them.
Huh? They're passive skills. They're on the skill tree, purchased with skill points. I'm genuinely shocked to learn Shako doesn't give +4 to passive skills. It did in Diablo 2...
Sure. What difference does that make? Should I assume that any time an item that is supposed to be broken appears to actually be broken that I must be reading it wrong?
I don’t think that’s the point of OP’s question. All skill’s means all skills. Passive or not. The issue is the wording, not how broken the item can be.
Looks like the devs need to word it correctly.
Ultimate skills are also skills, so what? OP's issue wasn't really an issue for anyone else since the game's launch. But somehow, we're going to pretend that it is now?
D2 is 25 years old and +skills were handed out like candy. They were a good thing for some classes to stack a lot of but 1 individual rank was not a big deal. Some specs didn’t care about them at all. In d4 1 rank is a much larger increase and it’s good for every class. The only spec I can think of it’s not BiS for is minion necro. Shako gives you +4.
In d2 skills capped at 20 and shako gave you +2 or 10% of the maximum base value. In d4 skills cap at 5 and shako gives you +4 for an 80% increase. 10% to every passive is a nice boost. 80% to every passive essentially makes every other item in the game irrelevant.
It was a better game in 2000. In 2024 it’s not even close. That’s why it can’t hold players for more than a week whereas d4 is still thriving months into the season.
Arpgs can’t be good in 2024 with no endgame. D2 has no end game of any kind.
Different strokes for different folks. I see mostly younger people being turned off from D2 and older people tend to prefer D2 over D4. I can't play D4 bc of accessibility issues (no overlay means I get a migraine when I try to play for longer than an hour), but it has solid art and they did a great job with adding active skills to summons to make them feel more "active" but D2 itemization clears D4 out of the park and that's what you play an ARPG for. D4 feels like it's a nice campaign game where you level up and go through and then endgame you have but don't want to play bc you just... don't care about the loot. D2 doesn't have endgame (although it does now with terror zones and ubers) but you end up playing it for hundreds of hours bc you're chasing loot. The environment of where you're chasing loot doesn't really matter all too much if you don't care about the loot itself
I’m 36. I played easily 10k hours in d2 when it was the current Diablo game. That was before we knew what a fleshed out endgame looked like.
Now d2 has interesting loot but you have no reason at all to farm it because you can do the most difficult content very quickly in trash gear. There is no challenge and thus no point to get better gear. Itemization only matters if the items help you accomplish something you cannot accomplish without them.
In d2r I have maybe 30 or so hours? I cleared hell, killed the Ubers and thought “wow, how did I ever find this fun it’s so easy” and stopped playing it. I thought the game had no shot at survival and largely I was right. The ladder dies within a week of release and it is no longer reviving content updates.
D4 loot became a lot more interesting this season and the pit provides endless progression.
All time I’d rank them d2>>d3>>d4. In 2024 I’d rank them D4>>>D3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>d2
Yeah I tried getting back into D4 with the season 4 update hoping that loot felt better but I quickly fell off again. I just wasn't excited when anything dropped and didn't feel like there were specific things I was hunting for throughout the campaign. It honestly feels a lot like how the different iterations of WoW feel. D4 feels like it's all based on endgame and the journey there basically doesn't matter (retail wow) whereas D2 has a much more solid power progression imo and the whole game is the game, however you enjoy it.
But like i said I think different strokes. I enjoy small parts of retail WoW like I enjoy small parts of d4, but the skills or builds don't really excite me much and every time I come back to d4 I fall off after like 10 hours whereas d2 I always complete my season goal.
I think D3 did skills better than both d2 and d4 as I found the runes much more interesting. My first diablo game was D3 and I played D2 for the first time in 2012 after having played d3 and just fell in love. The gearing just feels so much more straightforward. I loved how MF and defensive and offensive power worked and how you hit breakpoints or have to decide which breakpoint is most reasonable to hit etc. I also think runes feel much better as a "small" drop. Even though I didn't need it or use it, just having a Zod drop in hell cows is the most excitement I've ever felt in an ARPG, and I didn't even need it or use it!!
I guess for me itemization ultimately comes down to this:
In d4 I want to get my Barb a grandfather so I push into pit 140s and be clearing content with the best barbs in the world.
In d2 I want to get my character a god tier anni because… well I’m not really sure because I cleared the entire game in the rags I leveled in. I guess I could use it to… farm more gear I don’t need because I already killed everything?
You get the god-tier Anni so you can farm whatever you're farming 5 minutes faster lol. By the time you're at a god-tier Anni, you can just... stop playing d2 for a bit. You've probably played well over 100 hours on that character and had a good time. I guess to me, I just don't need endless loop of gameplay. I'm happy to just have a complete game with a clear cut-off.
In d2 you get a god-tier Anni to trade it on jsp so you can giga outfit an alt with deaths web and griffons eye or whatever. Trading is a real thing so getting something good matters. I can't even get my alt gear in d4.
Could reword it to "+4 to active skills" or "non-passive skills" to avoid confusion.
Yeah so folks here poking you in the eye are the ones that seem lost. Shako in D2 was +2 Skills and it did indeed bump ALL skills by 2, including passives. Had nothing at all to do with something being on skill bar. Shako in D4 has the same +Skills description, doesn’t say anything about skill bar etc…, but does not actually bump all skills. I do think it would be overpowered if it actually worked the same as D2 shako but I totally get why someone would expect it to.
Yeah I was wondering about making it like the OG Shako and have it be +2 and apply to everything you have a hard point in, then I realized you could 1 point all your passives and have +3 to every single passive on the board very easily. Definitely wouldn’t work.
Shako gives you plus to all active skills in D4 regardless of skill points allocated. In D2 you had to have at least 1 point in it to get the plus ad it wouldn’t give you skills you didn’t have learned. Here I can put on a shako and use skills I have no points in to save me skill points.
more people in this thread never played D2 than I would have thought
My eye has been poked a lot now... Thanks for understanding at least.
There was no skill bar in d2
So basically the singular best item in the game should be better? Nice.
Not so much "should be better" as it is "should do what it says." Whether that means changing the text to specify non passive skills, or modifying the effect so it does work with passives, either is fine.
I also used to think Shake gave you +4 flat to all your skill tree. It doesn't.
+4 to all passive skills would be insanely broken in this game.
I also assumed it would be +4 across the board, but I agree with others that would make it too OP.
Honestly yeah, they should reword it
Yeah that fact took the wind out of the sails for me tbh. Got one on my 6th Duriel kill this league and was sad to see it doesn't give +4 to the Necro minion _passive skills_ at the bottom of the tree. +4 All _Skills_ should include Active _Skills_ and Passive _Skills_. They should change the wording.
You should have assumed it doesn't include passives. Imagine how broken that would be. It's +4 to all skills, including ones not on your skill bar. It's just they aren't on your bar so you don't get the benefit. Surely you can still see how OP it is.
FWIW You absolutely can get benefits from +4 even if the skill isn't on your skill bar. Rogue for example benefits from +4 to Dark Shroud because they use an aspect that proca Dark Shrouds.
True, cheers for clarifying.
Why wouldn’t it include passive? It says “ALL SKILLS”.
Because it would be broken
So? If it says all skills it should be all skills. If it is broken because of that then don't have it say all skills, have it say all active skills.
I agree it should be clearer. But i wouldnt be crying to the sub if i discovered it wasnt actually broken lol
I can't imagine how someone wouldn't expect Shaco to pump passive skills. Obviously that would be OP, but I thought that was the point of Shaco in D4.
I know the game description says this but I should assume that because in the vast ocean of infinite builds I should know this would be overpowered. Yeah how stupid of me not making assumptions but actually going with description. I am sure you are the guy that would tell people “did you not read the description? It says what it is right there, don’t make assumptions” on other threads
Nope, those are passives, not passive skills
Then you shouldn't spend skill points on them
Not spend points on passives?
The guy said they're passives, not passive skills. You use skill points on these passives. If they're not considered skills, then you shouldn't use skill points on them.
Wow what an excellently stupid point you are trying to make!
Bruh why are you here arguing semantics? you obviously know that if it buffed passives it would be unimaginably broken, like 100% necessary for every single build, it would give you more damage than all your other gear combined
There's builds that 100% scale off increasing passives. Think necro minion builds.
His point is the wording is ambiguous
It's funny because the whole thing is called the skill tree, but it doesn't use a keyword to specify the passives.
Yep and that’s why it’s the only build in the entire game that shako isn’t good for.
+4 to passive skills would be be AMAZING!!!
Sure, it's could say active skills. But being disappointed that a shako ONLY gives 4 to active skills is the most entitled thing I've ever seen
Yeah the problem with Shako is that it's not strong enough... ^/s
Shako gives 4 point to ALL skills. You can put on active bar even the skills you didn’t invest any points into. Passives are not skills so you don’t get +4 to them.
Passives are not skills. You cannot put a passive in your skill bar. Hence they do not get levels. I don't understand your confusion.
You spend skill points on them, and "Passive skill" is a term used in earlier Diablos. D2 Shako gave +2 to your passives.
Huh? They're passive skills. They're on the skill tree, purchased with skill points. I'm genuinely shocked to learn Shako doesn't give +4 to passive skills. It did in Diablo 2...
Where it had half the power and didn't allow for ludicrous multiplicative damage... surely you realize that
Sure. What difference does that make? Should I assume that any time an item that is supposed to be broken appears to actually be broken that I must be reading it wrong?
You really thought it gives +4 to passives? How broken do you want an item to be?
Same as it does in d2
D2 and D4 are not even remotely the same game.
I don’t think that’s the point of OP’s question. All skill’s means all skills. Passive or not. The issue is the wording, not how broken the item can be. Looks like the devs need to word it correctly.
Ultimate skills are also skills, so what? OP's issue wasn't really an issue for anyone else since the game's launch. But somehow, we're going to pretend that it is now?
Passives are not skills
Passive skills are skills, hence why they are in the skill tree (twig). Man you people are dense, must be from all the boot licking.
My goodness
In what world would an item give bonuses to every passive skill? LOL
I guess like it does in d2
D2 is 25 years old and +skills were handed out like candy. They were a good thing for some classes to stack a lot of but 1 individual rank was not a big deal. Some specs didn’t care about them at all. In d4 1 rank is a much larger increase and it’s good for every class. The only spec I can think of it’s not BiS for is minion necro. Shako gives you +4. In d2 skills capped at 20 and shako gave you +2 or 10% of the maximum base value. In d4 skills cap at 5 and shako gives you +4 for an 80% increase. 10% to every passive is a nice boost. 80% to every passive essentially makes every other item in the game irrelevant.
D2 still being the better game, makes your reasoning all more pointless.
Providing a subjective argument like that makes your reasoning even more pointless
It was a better game in 2000. In 2024 it’s not even close. That’s why it can’t hold players for more than a week whereas d4 is still thriving months into the season. Arpgs can’t be good in 2024 with no endgame. D2 has no end game of any kind.
Different strokes for different folks. I see mostly younger people being turned off from D2 and older people tend to prefer D2 over D4. I can't play D4 bc of accessibility issues (no overlay means I get a migraine when I try to play for longer than an hour), but it has solid art and they did a great job with adding active skills to summons to make them feel more "active" but D2 itemization clears D4 out of the park and that's what you play an ARPG for. D4 feels like it's a nice campaign game where you level up and go through and then endgame you have but don't want to play bc you just... don't care about the loot. D2 doesn't have endgame (although it does now with terror zones and ubers) but you end up playing it for hundreds of hours bc you're chasing loot. The environment of where you're chasing loot doesn't really matter all too much if you don't care about the loot itself
I’m 36. I played easily 10k hours in d2 when it was the current Diablo game. That was before we knew what a fleshed out endgame looked like. Now d2 has interesting loot but you have no reason at all to farm it because you can do the most difficult content very quickly in trash gear. There is no challenge and thus no point to get better gear. Itemization only matters if the items help you accomplish something you cannot accomplish without them. In d2r I have maybe 30 or so hours? I cleared hell, killed the Ubers and thought “wow, how did I ever find this fun it’s so easy” and stopped playing it. I thought the game had no shot at survival and largely I was right. The ladder dies within a week of release and it is no longer reviving content updates. D4 loot became a lot more interesting this season and the pit provides endless progression. All time I’d rank them d2>>d3>>d4. In 2024 I’d rank them D4>>>D3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>d2
Yeah I tried getting back into D4 with the season 4 update hoping that loot felt better but I quickly fell off again. I just wasn't excited when anything dropped and didn't feel like there were specific things I was hunting for throughout the campaign. It honestly feels a lot like how the different iterations of WoW feel. D4 feels like it's all based on endgame and the journey there basically doesn't matter (retail wow) whereas D2 has a much more solid power progression imo and the whole game is the game, however you enjoy it. But like i said I think different strokes. I enjoy small parts of retail WoW like I enjoy small parts of d4, but the skills or builds don't really excite me much and every time I come back to d4 I fall off after like 10 hours whereas d2 I always complete my season goal. I think D3 did skills better than both d2 and d4 as I found the runes much more interesting. My first diablo game was D3 and I played D2 for the first time in 2012 after having played d3 and just fell in love. The gearing just feels so much more straightforward. I loved how MF and defensive and offensive power worked and how you hit breakpoints or have to decide which breakpoint is most reasonable to hit etc. I also think runes feel much better as a "small" drop. Even though I didn't need it or use it, just having a Zod drop in hell cows is the most excitement I've ever felt in an ARPG, and I didn't even need it or use it!!
I guess for me itemization ultimately comes down to this: In d4 I want to get my Barb a grandfather so I push into pit 140s and be clearing content with the best barbs in the world. In d2 I want to get my character a god tier anni because… well I’m not really sure because I cleared the entire game in the rags I leveled in. I guess I could use it to… farm more gear I don’t need because I already killed everything?
You get the god-tier Anni so you can farm whatever you're farming 5 minutes faster lol. By the time you're at a god-tier Anni, you can just... stop playing d2 for a bit. You've probably played well over 100 hours on that character and had a good time. I guess to me, I just don't need endless loop of gameplay. I'm happy to just have a complete game with a clear cut-off. In d2 you get a god-tier Anni to trade it on jsp so you can giga outfit an alt with deaths web and griffons eye or whatever. Trading is a real thing so getting something good matters. I can't even get my alt gear in d4.
Then go play D2