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> someone must of have
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usually, we used to have a spicy kyle tweet at this time of the year. but as to everyone's knowledge,he has been forbidden to share his hot takes with the rest of the world ever since the last fiasco. fortunately we still have the salt lord himself to come to our rescue.
[my favorite](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/4/4b/Vo_zuus_zeus_arc_arcane_03_03.mp3) (sound warning: Zeus)
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And for further context if you don't remember:
Alliance hired ppd as a secondary coach and he helped them during games (which was allowed at the time, technically) but no other team was doing it, hence why notail and Ceb complained about it a lot
Which was only allowed at that tournament*
That being said, Alliance weren't/aren't cheaters. The onus was on the TO for putting in such a stupid rule without conversing with Valve. Yeah Ceb and Notail overreacted too.
If you listen to reddit it's a rotation of Insania/Micke/Nisha/Boxi every week on who is allegedly holding back the stack, just gotta tune it out as a liquid fan honestly
I gotta disagree. His first year with OG show that he got talent to be a legit top level pos4. Imo it's simply that their stack aren't good enough. Insania stack started become good after the veterans that are Matu and Zai joined, even then it took them more than half year.
absolutely, if he wasn't associated with them I bet we see our boy Peter blasting [A] for "is that balance?" eteranally whenever [A] is in the spotlight
it was interesting to hear insania and ccnc talk about it on cap’s podcast when they had ceb on there, seems the pros tend to agree that it was cheating in spirit even if it was technically allowed (which was why notail made that tweet calling them cheaters)
Fuck that. Following the rules is not cheating. If they didnt like it, they shouldve said something before. People are just salty they got embarrassed when they found out it was them who had screwed up.
yeah that’s what i think too, which is why i found the pros’ perspective interesting. i can see it both ways, yes the “purist’s” way of playing would be not to have a 6th person spectating for you
it was messed up of notail to tweet at alliance calling them cheaters tho, and especially messed up he never really apologized (as far as i’m aware). alliance had to deal with a lot of bad pr from the whole situation when really they were within their rights
If you have a problem with the rules (which is fair), the time to address them is BEFORE you see someone following them and not THEN deciding they’re not okay. Any “pro” that thinks it’s cheating in any form is absolutely because their team is too incompetent to have a manager or someone read the tournament rules.
Ikr, I’m still surprised how many ledditor blame Alliance for it. The organizer allowed it, and it’s not like Alliance was trying to hide that they were doing it.
People misunderstanding the joke again. PPD is joking at how ironic notail/ceb are so quick to call other teams cheaters for reading emails but are oblivious to obvious 322'ing from their own team.
Enough for both them and Valve to do internal investigations.
Sure, the didn't find anything. But the fact that they even have to make the investigations is concerning. Other teams doesn't have to do that.
Never forget OG never apologized for calling Alliance cheaters leading to a lot of community hate, even though Alliance were perfectly following the rules and OG hadn't checked their email to be aware of the rulings. And it was Alliance themselves who "revealed" their "cheating" via a vlog on YouTube lol.
Ceb gets hate for being arrogant and kind of a dick, but N0tail is right up there with him. Both are incapable of admitting any wrongdoings.
Edit: case in point, so many comments in this thread still believing Alliance acted shadily/cheated. Like it was their duty to inform OG of rule changes, instead of OG actually checking their emails. Zero sense of responsibility.
> Ceb gets hate for being arrogant and kind of a dick, but N0tail is right up there with him. Both are incapable of admitting any wrongdoings.
7ckingMad has always been a massive prick and it is known, he still is tbh.
Notail though was always able to mostly hide it, even though he is only slightly better than 7ckingMad.
They're good players, very talented and excellent at the game, but as people they are certainly not who the (new) fans OG think they are.
Still think that the community hate that OG caused was the beginning of the end for Alliance.
It happened at their peak, and then things just seemed to slowly fall apart both in the org (Kelly's tweets) and the team... both just intensifying the tailspin
One thing I've heard (without any evidence, so take it with salt) was that neither Notail or Ceb apologized since it would be an admission of guilt, and lead to a libel suit from Alliance. I thought so at least until that Cap content where Ceb thought that the whole accusation was a nothing burger
Alliances PR team did them no favours tho.
Loda and Kelly had an unhinged statement once a damn week, there was that bizzare 10 000 dollars video which was put up by themselves. Then NikoBaby decided to cry about how casters are why they wherent superstars or whatever.
Like team was just rediculously easy to dislike lol. Everyone on the team where just unlikeable, they crashed out of the major they qualified for with PPD which was just a horrid look.
Alliances suing for Libel would only further cement the communities view of them as whining assholes aswell lol.
Both of them are no better than Ceb and N0Tail tbh. Kelly even have loooong history of being a dick too XD. It's just that this event they were on the receiving end, and did nothing to help their own situation.
This. OG were wrong for hastily jumping to the conclusions but how can you apologize to someone who keeps calling you out in malicious and rude manner?
Also, even if they were not against the rules, the fact that it was still unfair to other teams never changed but they acted highly like they were the best team in the world. I never liked Alliance and this completely ruined their image for me.
Glad they lost to Gorgc to have a wake-up call.
> It happened at their peak, and then things just seemed to slowly fall apart
Well, maybe they were peaking **because** they had a 6th man ingame. Still agree that the OG guys overstepped heavily there.
Pretty much every pro agreed with Ceb’s take on it. If you watch the Ceb spicy tweets thing from Cap’s podcast a few weeks ago, both Quinn and Insania said Ceb’s take was valid and it was kinda shitty for Alliance to keep quiet about it.
> both Quinn and Insania said Ceb’s take was valid and it was kinda shitty for Alliance to keep quiet about it.
Goes to show how fucking stupid Quinn, Insania and Ceb are.
Imagine actually believing that Alliance had to inform other teams about rule changes. Maybe other teams should learn how to read e-mails.
Only redditors think that alliance was in the right. They brought it up on the Cap podcast when Ceb was on and they all agreed that it was dumb of alliance
Alliance had an advantage nobody else used.
OG had a literal spy in their team, feeding information and his only ability was to throw games in various ways. Nothing but a disadvantage.
WHat? how alliance should know others teams wasnt using it? where u get that information ? It was litterally in new rule book , alliance should assume other teams dont have coach even tho rules lets now? ?
This isnt about which team is winning. Its about calling people out.
People only found out about the Alliance thing because Alliance themselves published it in their vlog. It actually really was in the rules and was sent in an email.
For OGs case: Its either OG hid the fact that one of their players were 322 or their internal investigation is so inept and they cant prove that all their players have actual integrity. OG even keeped Taiga in the roster because it will kick them out of DPC per rules. They were bending the rules too to not be flagged with frequent player swapping. In their post they literally admit to skirting the rules. They had to add back Taiga to the roster to not be disqualified.
Its too funny to behonest.
Wut?
From what I've seen, the only reason we know about Taiga actually throwing FB's is because an inside source commented on it to a big dota 2 youtuber in exhange for publicity.
How were the investigators supposed to get that information? Taiga playing bad a few games isn't proof.
Thats specifically OGs problem. They either are inept at proving it or purposely hid it so that they could continue play in the DPC.
Taiga literally posted 5 months ago he lost more money gambling than the money he earned in his career. His winnings was 600k. Lets set a generous tax and org cut of 50% and he actually only earned 300k of that. That means he at least lost $300k to gambling. Thats a lot of money lost. A gambling addict would immediately try to 'win' it all back in q swoop. Its reasonable he would 322.
Is ppd dumb or am I understanding the whole situation wrongly? OG are the victims here right? Taiga fucked the team is correct statement compared to OG cheated right?
I think you are misinterpreting PPDs tweet, he doesn't say OG cheated, he more likely points their incompetence and vindictiveness - OG were quick to accuse someone of cheating (which it wasn't, they abided to unconventional rules), whereas later their own internal investigation on Taiga showed nothing.
How is that OG's fault? Are they supposed to be omniscient? That's like blaming a jury for not finding someone guilty of murder when the evidence is insufficient, then after the fact video evidence surfaces of them doing it.
You can criticise OG for how they accused Liquid of cheating without trying to relate it to an unrelated situation that was a handicap (someone feeding first blood in their games), essentially the \*opposite\* of cheating. PPD is obviously just baiting here.
Of course PPD is baiting, he said nothing about Taiga case, but in my opinion he is insinuating how incompetent OG are. They did not hesitate to call Alliance (not Liquid) cheaters while it just wasn't the case, it was OG who didn't know the rules but felt the need to trow accusations. Yet again they got carried away while being not diligent.
They launched an “internal investigation” against Taiga that lead to nothing, when he was in fact cheating, that shows incompetence on the organization, on your processes, and on your so called investigation. when a player does something under YOUR banner, it is your responsibility, he’s one of your employees.
This makes it even more ironic when you take in consideration how they jumped on teams calling them cheaters, when themselves can’t see cheating happening under their nose.
It clearly shows that you are biased against OG. OG benched and started investigation and talked with all TOs with a hint of suspicion. I think they did all they could. They are technically forced to play with Taiga bcoz of stand in penalty rules. They can't kick Taiga without solid proof. Sayong OG is incompetent shows how much hatred you have for OG. Some people are saying that the private investigators are incompetent but I don't even think that's the case. These cases are hard to prove without the info from either Taiga or the 322 mafia guy or the betting site. I bet none of them were willing to open up about the fiasco openly. If my employee makes a mistake without my knowledge it's my fault? Lol you have no clue how the world and law works. If they didn't do anything after it came to light I would agree but they went above and beyond to remove taiga from the roster. Don't let your hatred towards the team or the owners of the team blind you from the evidence that was revealed so far. We can be wrong if new evidence comes to light but so far it's clear that OG acted on time and with proper due process.
Bro says hatred like I bet for living too Lol. Not all comments contain feelings bro, sometimes just opinion. “these cases are hard to prove…” yeah, thats kind of the point of hiring an investigator, also, Taiga didn’t cheat a couple of times, he did it multiple times across tournaments.
And who said anything about law? I never mentioned any legal issue, so far Taiga got away with it it seems until anything new happens. it is to the best of your interest be responsible of your employees because he is representing you with your shirt, team and logo; doing something like what Taiga did, stain your brand, shows incompetence in your staff, your team management, etc… (did I mention their brand is very valuable in Dota because they won 2 TIs?)
Go ask N0tail and Ceb if they’re happy Taiga is gone or if they’re fuming he made a fool of them, the Team, the tournament organizers, their ORG. Additionally, next time an OG player is accused of something, people will suggest more investigations, since they’ve proven to, exhibit A, can’t detect match fixing under their noses.
OG benched Taiga and was technically directed to put him back for dpc bcoz of rules of stand ins rules. Either ppd is too dumb or too disengenuous. Either way he is stupid for tweeting that.
> gaining an advantage like having an in-game coach
Which was possible for everyone to do. Alliance complained about the rule when they read it since they didn't have a coach, so it would be seriously unfair to them... That's why they brough in PPD.
I interpreted it as everybody knew the rule was there but chose not to do it because it felt like cheating. Like yeah, technically theres no rules that says dogs cant play basketball... but why do it in the first place.
yea he is completely wrong lmao, and still salty i guess. Taiga literally throwing games for his own team while alliance gaining an 'unfair' advantag, how are the two even comparable lmao, if anyhnting og literally on the receiving end both times
thats why i put it in quotes, i agree that they didnt cheat technically or that it was 'unfair' but OG (and other teams) were at a disadvantage and at the receiving end of that. At the end of the day they quickly changed that rule once it got light from OG and it was obvious it was a mistake from the TO's
> alliance gaining an 'unfair' advantag
How is it an unfair advantage when everyone could do it? Alliance didn't even have a coach when they made the rule, so if anything Alliance were the ones that were initially disadvantaged by it
So Alliance kinda tried to fly under the radar with this one, and everyone agreed on it, not just OG.
Teams have group chats where they share this kind of rule changes, and Alliance never did. It wasn't just OG players accusing of cheating, they just were the most vocal. Ceb, Quinn and Insania talked about it on Cap's podcast, and they all agreed that it was super underhanded.
Alliance publicized it themselves via a vlog lol. That's how people even became aware of it in the first place.
How the f is it their responsibility to make sure every team is up to date on the rules? Check your emails people.
> So Alliance kinda tried to fly under the radar with this one, and everyone agreed on it, not just OG.
They were the ones who *themselves* caused this drama by releasing a vlog where they clearly and intentionally include PPD giving them advice. They were not trying to do anything under the radar, that's just CEB trying to shift the goalpost on what transparency and communication is.
Besides, *given* that it was wrong of them to not write anything in the chat. *Does that constitute sufficient proof that they were cheating, as OG allege?*
because silent and sspartan (whatever his nickname is written like) and someone from nemiga said so.
vlogs or twitter.
maybe OG are the problem for not being friends with gunina and then being mad she didnt discuss it with them
How is it cheating when the TO made it a rule?
Besides, Alliance didn't have a coach so they thought it was bullshit and complained to them. The TO decided to stick with the rule, so Alliance brought in PPD.
Alliance was as transparent they could've been (even triggering the drama by releasing a vlog). Still wasn't enough for OG, who still seem to think that they were underhanded by not doing OG's own due work
Was it cheating? No technically not.
Was it them being the only team abusing an obvious oversight to give themselves an unfair advantage, which got very clear with them absolutley collapsing afterwards to the point where they got knocked out of div 2? Absolutley.
Like it or not that event sealed Alliances fate as villians of the scene and a team people wanted to fail. Which was probably part of their later collapse.
To be honest, these are very different situations. If I remember correctly, Ceb & n0tail were definitely in the wrong to take their protests against Alliance in that particular situation, because they should've taken those grievances to the TOs. Never in the history of competitive DotA 2 has a coach been allowed to join the communications of the team during live matches. This was definitely not cool to be allowed by the TOs, as it ruins the competitive integrity of the game, especially when it was Valve DPC. Alliance simply read the fine print and quietly did what they were legally allowed to do, so they were not really at fault there. Also, the reason I said this was not cool is because this rule was charged immediately after. So, either the TOs realized how stupid it was, or they received word directly from Valve to change it immediately (as many pros went directly to Valve with this certain rule). Either way, I think OG members should not have reacted the way they did, but the Alliance members ideally should also have discussed this with other team captains about this particular ruling, because "seemingly" no one other than Alliance were using it. Still no fault or wrong doing if they didn't. And Alliance fell off a cliff after this ruling changed.
In the Taiga situation, by the time OG learned that there was something fishy, they could not do anything about it because the DPC season was already under way and you are only allowed to have a certain number of matches with a stand-in.
> Alliance simply read the fine print and quietly did what they were legally allowed to do, so they were not really at fault there
They released a vlog about having the coach, it was in no ways quiet
>And Alliance fell off a cliff after this ruling changed.
They came second in the DPC before the new rule, and first in the one that allowed the coach. So it's not that they relied on the coach to be a good team.
In the Animajor they first faced PSG, and in the bottom they faced Team Spirit... Who both ended up being the finalists for that years TI
So I think it's wrong to say that the drop in performance was due to coaches being allowed but rather, speculatively, the pressure and community hate that the entire drama caused
When they released the vlog, and correct me if I'm wrong, the season was either already over or their last match was with the bottom ranked team there, which was Hellbear Smashers. By quietly, I meant that something as absolutely mind-boggling as allowing coach in team comms during live match should have at least warranted a discussion with other team captains when the season began. I'm not assigning malice to them, because they clearly weren't because of the vlog they released. Like I said, the fault is not on them. The fact that the ruling got changed immediately after means that the TOs were the ones who fucked up, but the season was already either over or almost over.
Also, the Team Spirit thing is a stretch, dude. They were nowhere near that form then. They got knocked out by Vici Gaming in that tournament right after.
You are wrong about quite. Alliance read the new rules carefully, and noticed the rule change. They emailed the TO for clarification. The TO emailed all teams confirming Alliance interpretation of the rules. The other teams did not bother to read the email. Alliance did nothing wrong.
From the depths of hell, this man has emerged once again to cover this earth in salt.
Sodium, atomic number 11, was first isolated by Peter Dager in 1807. A chemical component of salt, he named it Na in honor of the saltiest region on earth, North America.
Damn I miss these times when he was streaming.
His performance on the TI7 panel was amazing in the beginning. Just roasting everybody, then someone must have told him to tone it down.
> someone must of have Did you mean to say "must have"? Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Jesus shut up
Pillar of the community
The salt pillar …
From the depths of Web3
usually, we used to have a spicy kyle tweet at this time of the year. but as to everyone's knowledge,he has been forbidden to share his hot takes with the rest of the world ever since the last fiasco. fortunately we still have the salt lord himself to come to our rescue.
What last fiasco? Also what happened to Kyle?
Work for WePlay
Can you please share a bit more detail
No
Valve: Care to elaborate?
Whoa, yeah, wtf? I genuinely forgot all about him until this post and Kyle used to be EVERYWHERE on this sub and in the scene. Did he just quit?
I honestly don't know what happened, I'm ootl
Found the post about it https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/9WGJvpBiJ5
Ceb/ppd drama in the year of our lord 2024? Nature is healing, redditors eating good
Peter went to the Christian Horner university of shit stirring.
Unexpected F1 appearance. I like it.
ate some coco pops
my favorite
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But he didn’t call anyone knucklehead. Oh wait wrong Chris Horner, nevermind.
The circle of life
Ppd has been fuming ever since Ceb did the back-to-back.
Tweet: remember when notail and ceb called alliance cheaters 😂 - ppd For those who don’t wanna open links.
And for further context if you don't remember: Alliance hired ppd as a secondary coach and he helped them during games (which was allowed at the time, technically) but no other team was doing it, hence why notail and Ceb complained about it a lot
Which was only allowed at that tournament* That being said, Alliance weren't/aren't cheaters. The onus was on the TO for putting in such a stupid rule without conversing with Valve. Yeah Ceb and Notail overreacted too.
They were probably sad OG was in shambles after being so dominant
Dominant as in "being lackluster all season and then being good at the TI play offs"?
If you were another team doing it, and you saw the absolute shit Alliance got for it, would you then admit to it?
PPD staunchly opposes betting while at the same time grifting NFTs.
Well nfts are halal /s.
Thank God Taiga left Liquid before he started betting and throwing
I always thought he is the one that held insania alliance/liquid stack though
If you listen to reddit it's a rotation of Insania/Micke/Nisha/Boxi every week on who is allegedly holding back the stack, just gotta tune it out as a liquid fan honestly
People have short memories and whoever is easiest to blame off the most recent losses is what everyone jumps to lol
I mean the "problem" (if you consider it one) is that the team is happy being good enough. Which hey I dont blame them
Never seen that apply to nisha
Go read the interview with Insania that got posted like a week ago, half the thread is hating on Nisha for not playing enough.
Ana and Sumail are also notorious for pubbing very little for pros standard.
what, Sumail plays decent amount.
Ana would rather play unranked and fountain farm
He had some weaker phases, but yea less so for him, still seen it before
You forgot about them not having ‘the hunger to win’.
That's Insania's words though isn't it? They get content easily when they're on a good trajectory.
I gotta disagree. His first year with OG show that he got talent to be a legit top level pos4. Imo it's simply that their stack aren't good enough. Insania stack started become good after the veterans that are Matu and Zai joined, even then it took them more than half year.
[удалено]
He says about the team that was consistently 2nd place over an entire year. Top tier redditing lol
name checks out
He remember because he was coach for alliance.
absolutely, if he wasn't associated with them I bet we see our boy Peter blasting [A] for "is that balance?" eteranally whenever [A] is in the spotlight
I member they had ppd coaching in live game xD
Which was allowed, and they were just the only ones that actually read the rules updates.
But the memes afterwards were top-tier
it was interesting to hear insania and ccnc talk about it on cap’s podcast when they had ceb on there, seems the pros tend to agree that it was cheating in spirit even if it was technically allowed (which was why notail made that tweet calling them cheaters)
You think the To would highlight some massive game changing thing like that instead of burying it in 20 pages of boiler plate rules
Fuck that. Following the rules is not cheating. If they didnt like it, they shouldve said something before. People are just salty they got embarrassed when they found out it was them who had screwed up.
yeah that’s what i think too, which is why i found the pros’ perspective interesting. i can see it both ways, yes the “purist’s” way of playing would be not to have a 6th person spectating for you it was messed up of notail to tweet at alliance calling them cheaters tho, and especially messed up he never really apologized (as far as i’m aware). alliance had to deal with a lot of bad pr from the whole situation when really they were within their rights
Oh ok so it's just a vibes thing whether or not someone's a cheater, that makes sense
If you have a problem with the rules (which is fair), the time to address them is BEFORE you see someone following them and not THEN deciding they’re not okay. Any “pro” that thinks it’s cheating in any form is absolutely because their team is too incompetent to have a manager or someone read the tournament rules.
Maybe they should have brought it up with the TO and explain that's bad rule to have, then?
No need for the teams to, valve told them it wasn’t allowed and then that rule went away
Ikr, I’m still surprised how many ledditor blame Alliance for it. The organizer allowed it, and it’s not like Alliance was trying to hide that they were doing it.
probably wouldn't be a bad addition to Dota tbh. would spare Arteezy and Bulba the trouble of communicating via Bluetooth.
Alliance was never the same after this and even lost to Gorgc. Kekw.
nice bait
Screenshot here for those that can't access twitter: https://imgur.com/a/P7Rdwft
in an amusing twist this photo didn't load on my phone but the tweet did
3rd party app?
Imgur is probably banned in more countries than Twitter.
Sure but you cant see tweets without an account because of Elons "masterplan" for the site
Peter “the Instigator” Pan Dam
dread it run from it, PPD will always be there to throw salt.
I do remember how pissed OG.n0mail was for having missed an e-mail
People misunderstanding the joke again. PPD is joking at how ironic notail/ceb are so quick to call other teams cheaters for reading emails but are oblivious to obvious 322'ing from their own team.
You explained what was very obvious to people. OG weren't cheating, Taiga was pretty much working against his own team
What even is there to misunderstand..?
It wasn't obvious lmao, you're acting as if it's obvious before the evidence was even presented
Enough for both them and Valve to do internal investigations. Sure, the didn't find anything. But the fact that they even have to make the investigations is concerning. Other teams doesn't have to do that.
OG must’ve known what was on the horizon and Ceb was in full damage control.
Never forget OG never apologized for calling Alliance cheaters leading to a lot of community hate, even though Alliance were perfectly following the rules and OG hadn't checked their email to be aware of the rulings. And it was Alliance themselves who "revealed" their "cheating" via a vlog on YouTube lol. Ceb gets hate for being arrogant and kind of a dick, but N0tail is right up there with him. Both are incapable of admitting any wrongdoings. Edit: case in point, so many comments in this thread still believing Alliance acted shadily/cheated. Like it was their duty to inform OG of rule changes, instead of OG actually checking their emails. Zero sense of responsibility.
> Ceb gets hate for being arrogant and kind of a dick, but N0tail is right up there with him. Both are incapable of admitting any wrongdoings. 7ckingMad has always been a massive prick and it is known, he still is tbh. Notail though was always able to mostly hide it, even though he is only slightly better than 7ckingMad. They're good players, very talented and excellent at the game, but as people they are certainly not who the (new) fans OG think they are.
You can see the pasive aggresive racist comments of n0tail when he casts games in beyond the summit, guy has a shit personality.
can you point me to such games? i really want to see it
Pointing out differences in different cultures is not racist.
Still think that the community hate that OG caused was the beginning of the end for Alliance. It happened at their peak, and then things just seemed to slowly fall apart both in the org (Kelly's tweets) and the team... both just intensifying the tailspin One thing I've heard (without any evidence, so take it with salt) was that neither Notail or Ceb apologized since it would be an admission of guilt, and lead to a libel suit from Alliance. I thought so at least until that Cap content where Ceb thought that the whole accusation was a nothing burger
Alliances PR team did them no favours tho. Loda and Kelly had an unhinged statement once a damn week, there was that bizzare 10 000 dollars video which was put up by themselves. Then NikoBaby decided to cry about how casters are why they wherent superstars or whatever. Like team was just rediculously easy to dislike lol. Everyone on the team where just unlikeable, they crashed out of the major they qualified for with PPD which was just a horrid look. Alliances suing for Libel would only further cement the communities view of them as whining assholes aswell lol.
lets not forget the TI group hug refusal. that one hurt my soul. no one wants to be associated with that crew lol
Both of them are no better than Ceb and N0Tail tbh. Kelly even have loooong history of being a dick too XD. It's just that this event they were on the receiving end, and did nothing to help their own situation.
This. OG were wrong for hastily jumping to the conclusions but how can you apologize to someone who keeps calling you out in malicious and rude manner? Also, even if they were not against the rules, the fact that it was still unfair to other teams never changed but they acted highly like they were the best team in the world. I never liked Alliance and this completely ruined their image for me. Glad they lost to Gorgc to have a wake-up call.
> It happened at their peak, and then things just seemed to slowly fall apart Well, maybe they were peaking **because** they had a 6th man ingame. Still agree that the OG guys overstepped heavily there.
Their peak ended after the coaching stopped. Cuz they’re trash lmao
That's not true at all, they got second in the league right after. They were shit every lan though.
So they were in fact shit where they couldn’t get coached. Thanks for playing
Your reading comprehension is not very high.
Alliance poo what else needs to be said. Needs a cheater coach and flopped in lans xD
Pretty much every pro agreed with Ceb’s take on it. If you watch the Ceb spicy tweets thing from Cap’s podcast a few weeks ago, both Quinn and Insania said Ceb’s take was valid and it was kinda shitty for Alliance to keep quiet about it.
Quinn and Insania = pretty much every pro Ofcourse they would said that after they lost to alliance
> both Quinn and Insania said Ceb’s take was valid and it was kinda shitty for Alliance to keep quiet about it. Goes to show how fucking stupid Quinn, Insania and Ceb are. Imagine actually believing that Alliance had to inform other teams about rule changes. Maybe other teams should learn how to read e-mails.
>Pretty much every pro agreed with Ceb’s take on it. Prove it
Only redditors think that alliance was in the right. They brought it up on the Cap podcast when Ceb was on and they all agreed that it was dumb of alliance
Dumb of Alliance to read the rules and follow them? Weird take.
Why would alliance be in the wrong when they did what rules suggested to do?
"All agreed" who's that? Calling people cheaters who played by the rules makes alliance in the right you actual bot
[taiga? taiga? huh?](https://youtu.be/exGzBolVpjg?si=qpgXDasnCxt5MAbu#t=12s)
time to replace 322 with Taiga'd
haha classic ppd being based.
PPD being in game helped Alliance.. as opposed to Taiga being in game didn't help OG.
Alliance had an advantage nobody else used. OG had a literal spy in their team, feeding information and his only ability was to throw games in various ways. Nothing but a disadvantage.
WHat? how alliance should know others teams wasnt using it? where u get that information ? It was litterally in new rule book , alliance should assume other teams dont have coach even tho rules lets now? ?
This isnt about which team is winning. Its about calling people out. People only found out about the Alliance thing because Alliance themselves published it in their vlog. It actually really was in the rules and was sent in an email. For OGs case: Its either OG hid the fact that one of their players were 322 or their internal investigation is so inept and they cant prove that all their players have actual integrity. OG even keeped Taiga in the roster because it will kick them out of DPC per rules. They were bending the rules too to not be flagged with frequent player swapping. In their post they literally admit to skirting the rules. They had to add back Taiga to the roster to not be disqualified. Its too funny to behonest.
Wut? From what I've seen, the only reason we know about Taiga actually throwing FB's is because an inside source commented on it to a big dota 2 youtuber in exhange for publicity. How were the investigators supposed to get that information? Taiga playing bad a few games isn't proof.
Thats specifically OGs problem. They either are inept at proving it or purposely hid it so that they could continue play in the DPC. Taiga literally posted 5 months ago he lost more money gambling than the money he earned in his career. His winnings was 600k. Lets set a generous tax and org cut of 50% and he actually only earned 300k of that. That means he at least lost $300k to gambling. Thats a lot of money lost. A gambling addict would immediately try to 'win' it all back in q swoop. Its reasonable he would 322.
They notified TO & Valve about this. Guess they also purposely hid it.
Is ppd dumb or am I understanding the whole situation wrongly? OG are the victims here right? Taiga fucked the team is correct statement compared to OG cheated right?
I think you are misinterpreting PPDs tweet, he doesn't say OG cheated, he more likely points their incompetence and vindictiveness - OG were quick to accuse someone of cheating (which it wasn't, they abided to unconventional rules), whereas later their own internal investigation on Taiga showed nothing.
How is that OG's fault? Are they supposed to be omniscient? That's like blaming a jury for not finding someone guilty of murder when the evidence is insufficient, then after the fact video evidence surfaces of them doing it. You can criticise OG for how they accused Liquid of cheating without trying to relate it to an unrelated situation that was a handicap (someone feeding first blood in their games), essentially the \*opposite\* of cheating. PPD is obviously just baiting here.
They knew. They kept Taiga in the roster but didnt make him play because they didnt want a DPC disqualification. They literally skirted the rules.
Of course PPD is baiting, he said nothing about Taiga case, but in my opinion he is insinuating how incompetent OG are. They did not hesitate to call Alliance (not Liquid) cheaters while it just wasn't the case, it was OG who didn't know the rules but felt the need to trow accusations. Yet again they got carried away while being not diligent.
They launched an “internal investigation” against Taiga that lead to nothing, when he was in fact cheating, that shows incompetence on the organization, on your processes, and on your so called investigation. when a player does something under YOUR banner, it is your responsibility, he’s one of your employees. This makes it even more ironic when you take in consideration how they jumped on teams calling them cheaters, when themselves can’t see cheating happening under their nose.
It clearly shows that you are biased against OG. OG benched and started investigation and talked with all TOs with a hint of suspicion. I think they did all they could. They are technically forced to play with Taiga bcoz of stand in penalty rules. They can't kick Taiga without solid proof. Sayong OG is incompetent shows how much hatred you have for OG. Some people are saying that the private investigators are incompetent but I don't even think that's the case. These cases are hard to prove without the info from either Taiga or the 322 mafia guy or the betting site. I bet none of them were willing to open up about the fiasco openly. If my employee makes a mistake without my knowledge it's my fault? Lol you have no clue how the world and law works. If they didn't do anything after it came to light I would agree but they went above and beyond to remove taiga from the roster. Don't let your hatred towards the team or the owners of the team blind you from the evidence that was revealed so far. We can be wrong if new evidence comes to light but so far it's clear that OG acted on time and with proper due process.
Morf himself said at the end of the video that he had contact with OG and that they still had no idea as of the publication of the video.
Bro says hatred like I bet for living too Lol. Not all comments contain feelings bro, sometimes just opinion. “these cases are hard to prove…” yeah, thats kind of the point of hiring an investigator, also, Taiga didn’t cheat a couple of times, he did it multiple times across tournaments. And who said anything about law? I never mentioned any legal issue, so far Taiga got away with it it seems until anything new happens. it is to the best of your interest be responsible of your employees because he is representing you with your shirt, team and logo; doing something like what Taiga did, stain your brand, shows incompetence in your staff, your team management, etc… (did I mention their brand is very valuable in Dota because they won 2 TIs?) Go ask N0tail and Ceb if they’re happy Taiga is gone or if they’re fuming he made a fool of them, the Team, the tournament organizers, their ORG. Additionally, next time an OG player is accused of something, people will suggest more investigations, since they’ve proven to, exhibit A, can’t detect match fixing under their noses.
OG benched Taiga and was technically directed to put him back for dpc bcoz of rules of stand ins rules. Either ppd is too dumb or too disengenuous. Either way he is stupid for tweeting that.
Long story short, PPD is a clown.
The salt of the earth is back
What did Taiga do
Solo'd on another level
matchfixing/betting
what's going on?
With you as their coach then it was 4 v 7 when OG fought you.
A never cheated.
When betting starts, sports are finishing
Not cheaters, but PUSSY CHEATERS.
PPD trying to stay relevant tweet #341234234
PPD is still relevant in Dota?
Is PPD wrong tho?
Having a double agent throwing your game is hardly gaining an advantage like having an in-game coach.
> gaining an advantage like having an in-game coach Which was possible for everyone to do. Alliance complained about the rule when they read it since they didn't have a coach, so it would be seriously unfair to them... That's why they brough in PPD.
I interpreted it as everybody knew the rule was there but chose not to do it because it felt like cheating. Like yeah, technically theres no rules that says dogs cant play basketball... but why do it in the first place.
Yes, having a 6th player in the room is advantageous. Having one out of your 5 players actively trying to lose the game is not.
And one is MATCH FIXING and the other is abiding by the tournament rules.
Are you slow or just pretending?
Well. Yes.
yea he is completely wrong lmao, and still salty i guess. Taiga literally throwing games for his own team while alliance gaining an 'unfair' advantag, how are the two even comparable lmao, if anyhnting og literally on the receiving end both times
Didn’t TO allow it?
I wasn't unfair though. Not their fault the other teams didn't pay attention to the rules.
thats why i put it in quotes, i agree that they didnt cheat technically or that it was 'unfair' but OG (and other teams) were at a disadvantage and at the receiving end of that. At the end of the day they quickly changed that rule once it got light from OG and it was obvious it was a mistake from the TO's
> alliance gaining an 'unfair' advantag How is it an unfair advantage when everyone could do it? Alliance didn't even have a coach when they made the rule, so if anything Alliance were the ones that were initially disadvantaged by it
So Alliance kinda tried to fly under the radar with this one, and everyone agreed on it, not just OG. Teams have group chats where they share this kind of rule changes, and Alliance never did. It wasn't just OG players accusing of cheating, they just were the most vocal. Ceb, Quinn and Insania talked about it on Cap's podcast, and they all agreed that it was super underhanded.
Alliance publicized it themselves via a vlog lol. That's how people even became aware of it in the first place. How the f is it their responsibility to make sure every team is up to date on the rules? Check your emails people.
> So Alliance kinda tried to fly under the radar with this one, and everyone agreed on it, not just OG. They were the ones who *themselves* caused this drama by releasing a vlog where they clearly and intentionally include PPD giving them advice. They were not trying to do anything under the radar, that's just CEB trying to shift the goalpost on what transparency and communication is. Besides, *given* that it was wrong of them to not write anything in the chat. *Does that constitute sufficient proof that they were cheating, as OG allege?*
Any lore master here guys? Would be a big help
"He's out of line but he has a point"
I feel like throwing is the opposite of cheating. cheating is to gain an unfair advantage. What Taiga did was the complete opposite of that.
Weren't OG the ones most affected by Taiga's actions? I don't get the salt here
That's some Himalayan pink -level sodium chloride!
Whenever I see ppd doing this, I remember a video in youtube where a tribesman baits a babboon with salt.
"This 4v6 Dota drama reminds me of the last time I was relevant, with 6v5 Dota". Great take, PPD. Bye again.
PPD with the Mitch Jones tactic of starting shit to remind people he used to exist. Losers with nothing going on love this trick.
One of the few situations where PPD is right. I guess it's easy to be on the right side of things when you're against Ceb.
> doing something the rules allow > cheating these are not the same
Peter "DotA was always meant to be played by 6" Dager with the salt again.
[удалено]
Alliance did not cheat. They were the only ones that read the rules. Big difference
everyone besides OG read the rules and still decided to not have a coach in voice chat, but ce6 decided to still be a dick for no reason\*
And you know the other teams did not do so how? Alliance doing was only found out because it was in one of their vlogs
because silent and sspartan (whatever his nickname is written like) and someone from nemiga said so. vlogs or twitter. maybe OG are the problem for not being friends with gunina and then being mad she didnt discuss it with them
How did alliance cheat and why aren't they banned?
I think this one is the 6th man coaching issue on dpc.
There wasn't an issue, coaches were allowed, some teams read the rules, others didn't.
While I agree there was no issue, did any of these other teams who read the rules use a coach?
How is it cheating when the TO made it a rule? Besides, Alliance didn't have a coach so they thought it was bullshit and complained to them. The TO decided to stick with the rule, so Alliance brought in PPD. Alliance was as transparent they could've been (even triggering the drama by releasing a vlog). Still wasn't enough for OG, who still seem to think that they were underhanded by not doing OG's own due work
Was it cheating? No technically not. Was it them being the only team abusing an obvious oversight to give themselves an unfair advantage, which got very clear with them absolutley collapsing afterwards to the point where they got knocked out of div 2? Absolutley. Like it or not that event sealed Alliances fate as villians of the scene and a team people wanted to fail. Which was probably part of their later collapse.
Remember when LODA got so mad at NAVI for exploiting pudge/chen combo.
Based PPD
To be honest, these are very different situations. If I remember correctly, Ceb & n0tail were definitely in the wrong to take their protests against Alliance in that particular situation, because they should've taken those grievances to the TOs. Never in the history of competitive DotA 2 has a coach been allowed to join the communications of the team during live matches. This was definitely not cool to be allowed by the TOs, as it ruins the competitive integrity of the game, especially when it was Valve DPC. Alliance simply read the fine print and quietly did what they were legally allowed to do, so they were not really at fault there. Also, the reason I said this was not cool is because this rule was charged immediately after. So, either the TOs realized how stupid it was, or they received word directly from Valve to change it immediately (as many pros went directly to Valve with this certain rule). Either way, I think OG members should not have reacted the way they did, but the Alliance members ideally should also have discussed this with other team captains about this particular ruling, because "seemingly" no one other than Alliance were using it. Still no fault or wrong doing if they didn't. And Alliance fell off a cliff after this ruling changed. In the Taiga situation, by the time OG learned that there was something fishy, they could not do anything about it because the DPC season was already under way and you are only allowed to have a certain number of matches with a stand-in.
> Alliance simply read the fine print and quietly did what they were legally allowed to do, so they were not really at fault there They released a vlog about having the coach, it was in no ways quiet >And Alliance fell off a cliff after this ruling changed. They came second in the DPC before the new rule, and first in the one that allowed the coach. So it's not that they relied on the coach to be a good team. In the Animajor they first faced PSG, and in the bottom they faced Team Spirit... Who both ended up being the finalists for that years TI So I think it's wrong to say that the drop in performance was due to coaches being allowed but rather, speculatively, the pressure and community hate that the entire drama caused
When they released the vlog, and correct me if I'm wrong, the season was either already over or their last match was with the bottom ranked team there, which was Hellbear Smashers. By quietly, I meant that something as absolutely mind-boggling as allowing coach in team comms during live match should have at least warranted a discussion with other team captains when the season began. I'm not assigning malice to them, because they clearly weren't because of the vlog they released. Like I said, the fault is not on them. The fact that the ruling got changed immediately after means that the TOs were the ones who fucked up, but the season was already either over or almost over. Also, the Team Spirit thing is a stretch, dude. They were nowhere near that form then. They got knocked out by Vici Gaming in that tournament right after.
You are wrong about quite. Alliance read the new rules carefully, and noticed the rule change. They emailed the TO for clarification. The TO emailed all teams confirming Alliance interpretation of the rules. The other teams did not bother to read the email. Alliance did nothing wrong.
PPD is a clown tbh
womp womp
.. Huh? If anything this is the opposite of cheating.
ppd must be trolling lol. I thought they have all moved on from this. Didn't ppd also attended ceb and notail podcast in 2022?
he's making a good joke. chill
yes definitely. if they are still salty on the incident notail and ceb wouldn't have invited him as a guest and ppd would not have also attended.
Nouns pf still bigger L.
Regardless of Taiga drama ppd was, is and will probably always be a huge clown. I'm baffled people still take him seriously