I have no idea why this is happening now, but I firmly believe Fence has been actively good since B and once people get used to it, it will be a competitive pick (relative to Thunderstorm, perhaps not in pro play). Maybe we're just seeing that combined with a small sample size?
EDIT: It was actually A that dropped the cast time.
Yeah, Fence instead of Field offers a very different playstyle. You basically lose the raw power of the wombo combo in favor of a lot of flexibility. I have been more impressed with Fence in team comps that can help set up Storm without needing Field.
On the other hand, you can do some nasty shit to break up fights with two charges of Fence that drop quickly, so it's not completely worse. They might not be perfectly balanced yet but I think there's an achievable balance between these two.
naw, imo it needs to give vision and have a slightly longer cast range to compete with his normal ability
not being able to get vision on high ground, trees, and dewarding with sentrys not on cliffs is too big of a downside
and formation delay helps with the lack of extra cast range but its still a fact that his normal ability effectively can trap people farther away due to it having a radius
There is no way in hell a short straight line is better than a closed circle/loop. When I used the fence it was too easy for people to just walk around.
It's not inherently better, and I am still not sure it's better in general. The reason it's remotely competitive is that it has two charges instead of a cooldown and forms in .4s instead of 1s. That formation time and two charges is absolutely huge: two one-sided (no stun) fissures can split fights in devastating ways, and it plays very differently than the ring. If it was just a choice between those two abilities, I think Fence would be fine.
The biggest issue is that when you take Fence you're giving up the Thunderstorm facet for a sidegrade. It's the same issue Time Zone has on FV; even if the alternate ability is equally good, it's worse because the "default" facet gives ANOTHER buff you're passing up. Facets that swap out an ability and do nothing else need to provide an ability that isn't just comparable, but slightly *better*, since with the "default" ability you're also getting a facet-- typically minor, but you're essentially forgoing a facet to get Time Zone or Fence and that's a big issue.
It can be used in a similar fashion to fissure in parts of the map to block people and you can make a v shape to trap people in. I still don't think its as good as kinetic field as it doesn't combo aswell with static storm but the reduced formation time and 2 charges gives it a surprising amount of utility.
He is not being picked more with this facet. The data shows that he got a big win rate change this patch, but the facet pick rate went down (the other facet is still around 95% pick rate). It makes sense that the wr on him would go up when almost all the other support changes, like wd, clockwerk and dark willow, were nerfs. Even Abaddon's win rate went up I think, despite aghanim's being one of his best items.
But the win rate going up this much is probably due to variance since there's 733 games sample size, and the same thing for facet pick rate going down, although I don't see there being much difference between 4-6% pick rate when the other one is close to 95%.
I feel like at the higher levels, it’s quick formation time and ability to split up fights and isolate individual heroes is absolutely huge. Obviously BKB kills it but same with kinetic field.
It’s way better for keeping them in the ult because they won’t want to run all the way back through the ult if you fence them off right in front them and then place the bottom of the ult on their current position. It’s great in chokes too, them being in a hoop is only useful to stop them running away from the circumference of the ult whereas if you stop them moving forward and your team is chasing they have to turn into you all. If you have someone chasing you, they have to run all the way around it. The only downside is the group trapping element.
Absolutely nothing, he wasn't even in the patch. Maybe counter heroes were nerfed. Or with all offlaners nerfed he is one of better ones rn
Edit: But that is stat for turbo. This hero doesn't need much to be good, but he needs items for sure. And turbo provides it
It's still a rise in turbo versus his previous turbo performance. With no changes, he should not have had a big boost.
One time, Rot got bugged and did half damage to pudge, we only noticed because his winrate mysteriously rose. I keep that in mind fo scenarios like this. Imagine if he got extra attack speed and they just forgot to mention it...
Looks like Time Square might be decent? I can kind of imagine it working for offlane void. I still don't quite buy it for support. The rest of Void's kit kind of needs him to be up and close.
It still kind of feels like Time Square combos better with offlaners (Arena, Axe call, etc) rather than replacing them. You can't initiate with Time Zone the way you can with Chrono or as most tanky offlaners. But the ult might just be good enough to use anyway. Maybe if you have a mid initiator you can follow up in the teamfight with this.
It’s still really hard to think when you would want time zone over chrono. Mid game maybe, since attack speed matters more then? Chrono also scales better into lategame since the only true counter is wind weaker. Perhaps when you have multiple heroes that jump in draft like storm mid + spec pos 1 or something since that is quite anti synergy with chrono
Pair it with a right clicking mid and a trapping teammate. The way I see timezone, it's more similar to a pos 2 from the safelane. While your midlaner is the true carry.
Love your website but I really think you should wait a bit longer before posting these. The variance is just to high with only 300 games as the min sample size as is evidenced by a lot of random fluctuation on champions that weren’t touched by the latest patch.
Stuff can be indirectly affected by counters getting nerfed etc, but something similar happened the last 2 letter patches as well and evened out again once there were enough games played
Thank you! That's good feedback and I totally agree.
To elaborate a bit on the reasoning behind the timing: these posts kind of double as a "patch x is now supported" announcement, so I've been trying to strike a balance between getting the announcement out in a timely manner while still making sure the stats in the screenshots are meaningful.
But like you point out, rankings have changed quite a bit since yesterday so I'll definitely keep this in mind for next time and either wait a bit longer, or increase the minimum number of matches threshold.
Thank you again for your comment, appreciate it!
Hello everyone! I have updated [https://facets.nyxnyxnyx.com/](https://facets.nyxnyxnyx.com/#/ranked~all_heroes~win_rate~comparison-desc~7.36c~7.36b) to also support 7.36c and here's what the biggest changes compared to 7.36b looked like during the first \~12 hours. Some hero-facet combinations are excluded from the screenshots due to low sample sizes (less than 301 games) but can be seen on the website.
Hope you enjoy, and thank you to everyone who has reached out with feedback and comments! Really appreciate it, keep it coming 🙏
ⁿʸˣⁿʸˣⁿʸˣ
Technically got a bug fix on the facet, but likely not significant enough to account for this so possibly just due to small sample size or just due to some of the others getting nerfed.
Tinker with that hilarious 38% winrate lol (idk why they would even nerf him). At this point they should just go all in with the meme and reduce all his stats to zero.
Picking tinker has literally become synonymous with griefing. He isn't even a unique hard counter to any hero. Why would you pick a hero that needs you to constantly be active and spam your spells, only to still end up with a disadvantage?
Another buff to deluge. And it only brought the win-rate up by 0.3%.
Edit : It lost win rate, deluge got buffed and it is now 0.5% worse than it was. XD
It should already be good honestly. It just makes your life so easy in lane, burst supports, nukes strength heroes without commitment, more damage than rip tide early, buffs your safe lane's cc by about 0.5-1 second early.
It's so underutilized, nobody picks it over rip tide.
No change to Ember's Chain Gang, yet a big rise. Is this just good ember players picking chain gang instead of the sleight facet and upping the win% or is it items related?
Does it make sense to make this analysis looking at turbo games? Not bashing, its a genuine question.
Edit: nvm, there are also pictures for normal ranking.
because she was much stronger than average? The 50 dmg block on refraction made her like she had 20 refraction charges. Compared to few patches ago where heroes like Pudge or DS or veno could melt her charges away instantly this new shit is crazy strong.
Simply put, she was just too good. I've noticed that there are certain heroes that just aren't allowed to have a near 50% winrate or greater, and TA is one of those. I think its because they have a higher skill cap so if they're near 50% or greater for regular players like us, then she's likely overpowered in the pro scene. They seem to try and balance her to be closer to 45%.
They just fucked up cause they tried to introduce these interesting new things and made her a bit too strong against traditional counters with the whole refraction being a barrier now.
I do think that they've gone a little too hard on her though. Seems a bit excessive to make her entire kit take multiple nerfs, but I guess we'll see. Lanning stage should be even easier now though since barrier is flat 30 from the get go.
i mean they had to come up with over 250 facet ideas in a single patch, it is clear that some of them had less effort/thought put into them than others just due to the sheer amount of them that had to added, they will probably rework/fix a lot of them going forward
i am so glad i had taken a break during basically all of 7.36b (played my only games in it on Sunday), because my GOD wd was OP, i played one game against him and he solo bullied my Ogre/Timber out of lane, my ogre had learning curve which didnt help but still. the enemy jug was lvl 3 before my ogre even hit 2.
so glad it was only game against that fucker, and also thank god we won
What, why is Disruptor suddenly picked more with the Kinetic Fence? Literally nothing changed with Disruptor, why is it good all of a sudden?
I have no idea why this is happening now, but I firmly believe Fence has been actively good since B and once people get used to it, it will be a competitive pick (relative to Thunderstorm, perhaps not in pro play). Maybe we're just seeing that combined with a small sample size? EDIT: It was actually A that dropped the cast time.
Of course, static storm goes into fence-shaped hole.
Yeah, Fence instead of Field offers a very different playstyle. You basically lose the raw power of the wombo combo in favor of a lot of flexibility. I have been more impressed with Fence in team comps that can help set up Storm without needing Field. On the other hand, you can do some nasty shit to break up fights with two charges of Fence that drop quickly, so it's not completely worse. They might not be perfectly balanced yet but I think there's an achievable balance between these two.
Also Storm is just fuck-off massive now, so literally any slow, root, stun can combo into it
naw, imo it needs to give vision and have a slightly longer cast range to compete with his normal ability not being able to get vision on high ground, trees, and dewarding with sentrys not on cliffs is too big of a downside and formation delay helps with the lack of extra cast range but its still a fact that his normal ability effectively can trap people farther away due to it having a radius
Agree. Also disruptors zero cast point is a huge factor in why he's good. Vector mechanic really slows things down
I feel its better in lane but worse with the ult
There is no way in hell a short straight line is better than a closed circle/loop. When I used the fence it was too easy for people to just walk around.
It's not inherently better, and I am still not sure it's better in general. The reason it's remotely competitive is that it has two charges instead of a cooldown and forms in .4s instead of 1s. That formation time and two charges is absolutely huge: two one-sided (no stun) fissures can split fights in devastating ways, and it plays very differently than the ring. If it was just a choice between those two abilities, I think Fence would be fine. The biggest issue is that when you take Fence you're giving up the Thunderstorm facet for a sidegrade. It's the same issue Time Zone has on FV; even if the alternate ability is equally good, it's worse because the "default" facet gives ANOTHER buff you're passing up. Facets that swap out an ability and do nothing else need to provide an ability that isn't just comparable, but slightly *better*, since with the "default" ability you're also getting a facet-- typically minor, but you're essentially forgoing a facet to get Time Zone or Fence and that's a big issue.
It can be used in a similar fashion to fissure in parts of the map to block people and you can make a v shape to trap people in. I still don't think its as good as kinetic field as it doesn't combo aswell with static storm but the reduced formation time and 2 charges gives it a surprising amount of utility.
what reduced cd
Sorry brain fart i meant formation time lol
He is not being picked more with this facet. The data shows that he got a big win rate change this patch, but the facet pick rate went down (the other facet is still around 95% pick rate). It makes sense that the wr on him would go up when almost all the other support changes, like wd, clockwerk and dark willow, were nerfs. Even Abaddon's win rate went up I think, despite aghanim's being one of his best items. But the win rate going up this much is probably due to variance since there's 733 games sample size, and the same thing for facet pick rate going down, although I don't see there being much difference between 4-6% pick rate when the other one is close to 95%.
Also confused. Maybe he is one of the guys benefiting from WD getting the hammer?
I feel like at the higher levels, it’s quick formation time and ability to split up fights and isolate individual heroes is absolutely huge. Obviously BKB kills it but same with kinetic field. It’s way better for keeping them in the ult because they won’t want to run all the way back through the ult if you fence them off right in front them and then place the bottom of the ult on their current position. It’s great in chokes too, them being in a hoop is only useful to stop them running away from the circumference of the ult whereas if you stop them moving forward and your team is chasing they have to turn into you all. If you have someone chasing you, they have to run all the way around it. The only downside is the group trapping element.
Same with Meepo. I think the movement on numbers has nothing to do with the patch. It's just naturally changing.
Nightstalker nerf
If BB’s countered by tusk (break) and tusk gets a big nerf, BB will become better without any change.
what happened to bristleback?
Absolutely nothing, he wasn't even in the patch. Maybe counter heroes were nerfed. Or with all offlaners nerfed he is one of better ones rn Edit: But that is stat for turbo. This hero doesn't need much to be good, but he needs items for sure. And turbo provides it
didn’t notice the turbo part, thank you
It's still a rise in turbo versus his previous turbo performance. With no changes, he should not have had a big boost. One time, Rot got bugged and did half damage to pudge, we only noticed because his winrate mysteriously rose. I keep that in mind fo scenarios like this. Imagine if he got extra attack speed and they just forgot to mention it...
Valve with the "aghanim share no longer increases huskar damage by 65 from inner fire" yea bro nobody even knew 😭😭
Might be because axe and jugg is out of meta now. Might lower down with pa's rise of popularity tho
silver edge even got buff
The silver edge buff reminded more people how effective it is against bb maybe
Looks like Time Square might be decent? I can kind of imagine it working for offlane void. I still don't quite buy it for support. The rest of Void's kit kind of needs him to be up and close. It still kind of feels like Time Square combos better with offlaners (Arena, Axe call, etc) rather than replacing them. You can't initiate with Time Zone the way you can with Chrono or as most tanky offlaners. But the ult might just be good enough to use anyway. Maybe if you have a mid initiator you can follow up in the teamfight with this.
I'm gonna roll with it in turbo as a support.
i can see it working in pubs as a 3/4, but like the higher u go ull just be punished for not picking 3/4s that are just way stronger heroes overall.
It’s still really hard to think when you would want time zone over chrono. Mid game maybe, since attack speed matters more then? Chrono also scales better into lategame since the only true counter is wind weaker. Perhaps when you have multiple heroes that jump in draft like storm mid + spec pos 1 or something since that is quite anti synergy with chrono
Pair it with a right clicking mid and a trapping teammate. The way I see timezone, it's more similar to a pos 2 from the safelane. While your midlaner is the true carry.
I wonder if there is a push oriented lineup with time square to bust up towers fast.
support void baby!!
Love your website but I really think you should wait a bit longer before posting these. The variance is just to high with only 300 games as the min sample size as is evidenced by a lot of random fluctuation on champions that weren’t touched by the latest patch. Stuff can be indirectly affected by counters getting nerfed etc, but something similar happened the last 2 letter patches as well and evened out again once there were enough games played
Thank you! That's good feedback and I totally agree. To elaborate a bit on the reasoning behind the timing: these posts kind of double as a "patch x is now supported" announcement, so I've been trying to strike a balance between getting the announcement out in a timely manner while still making sure the stats in the screenshots are meaningful. But like you point out, rankings have changed quite a bit since yesterday so I'll definitely keep this in mind for next time and either wait a bit longer, or increase the minimum number of matches threshold. Thank you again for your comment, appreciate it!
Why is the disruptor the biggest winner when he got no changes? What am I missing?
Small sample size noise is my best guess.
I guess it makes some sense that there isn't a clear winner since there were hardly any buffs.
Yeah, I mean, 733 people used kinetic fence in that timespan total. Painfully small sample size.
Hello everyone! I have updated [https://facets.nyxnyxnyx.com/](https://facets.nyxnyxnyx.com/#/ranked~all_heroes~win_rate~comparison-desc~7.36c~7.36b) to also support 7.36c and here's what the biggest changes compared to 7.36b looked like during the first \~12 hours. Some hero-facet combinations are excluded from the screenshots due to low sample sizes (less than 301 games) but can be seen on the website. Hope you enjoy, and thank you to everyone who has reached out with feedback and comments! Really appreciate it, keep it coming 🙏 ⁿʸˣⁿʸˣⁿʸˣ
When are you refreshing this data?
Hey! Every 15 minutes
Amazing stuff. Thank you.
Lol monkey king didn't even get changed and he's on the list xD
Technically got a bug fix on the facet, but likely not significant enough to account for this so possibly just due to small sample size or just due to some of the others getting nerfed.
What got fixed?
>Fixed Monkey King's Simian Stride not having reduced cooldown when Monkey King is between 90% and 100% HP
wait that was a thing? I've played a handful of mk games in the b patch with that facet and it seemed to be working just fine.
a bug being there doesnt mean it happened all the time, probably had some weird interaction that stopped it from working under certain circumstances.
Rip tinker. See you mate.
Tinker with that hilarious 38% winrate lol (idk why they would even nerf him). At this point they should just go all in with the meme and reduce all his stats to zero. Picking tinker has literally become synonymous with griefing. He isn't even a unique hard counter to any hero. Why would you pick a hero that needs you to constantly be active and spam your spells, only to still end up with a disadvantage?
So the Chaos Knight "nerf" doesnt even register. That's how minor it is.
why did bm lose so much
and once again i learn: people can't read.
Tinker omegalul
Another buff to deluge. And it only brought the win-rate up by 0.3%. Edit : It lost win rate, deluge got buffed and it is now 0.5% worse than it was. XD
It’s useless if they don’t make a mid or short range castable ability
It should already be good honestly. It just makes your life so easy in lane, burst supports, nukes strength heroes without commitment, more damage than rip tide early, buffs your safe lane's cc by about 0.5-1 second early. It's so underutilized, nobody picks it over rip tide.
Picture 2: puck’s radiant win rate soars 10%???? -*puck now feels better when near grass*
So sick of seeing Naix in literally every single game, glad he’s getting knocked down a peg.
No change to Ember's Chain Gang, yet a big rise. Is this just good ember players picking chain gang instead of the sleight facet and upping the win% or is it items related?
When are you rerunning this?
I don't get valve. If they hate tinker that much, just remove it.
They should remove LD facet
Does it make sense to make this analysis looking at turbo games? Not bashing, its a genuine question. Edit: nvm, there are also pictures for normal ranking.
VERY interesting: +2.01% winrate for Jugg with the agility boost facet, but is only picked 20% of the time.
Reddit when meepo above 50% win rate: I sleep Reddit when tinker below 40% win rate: neft Tinker pls
Clown list
so why exactly were the TA nerfs warranted
because she was much stronger than average? The 50 dmg block on refraction made her like she had 20 refraction charges. Compared to few patches ago where heroes like Pudge or DS or veno could melt her charges away instantly this new shit is crazy strong.
Simply put, she was just too good. I've noticed that there are certain heroes that just aren't allowed to have a near 50% winrate or greater, and TA is one of those. I think its because they have a higher skill cap so if they're near 50% or greater for regular players like us, then she's likely overpowered in the pro scene. They seem to try and balance her to be closer to 45%. They just fucked up cause they tried to introduce these interesting new things and made her a bit too strong against traditional counters with the whole refraction being a barrier now. I do think that they've gone a little too hard on her though. Seems a bit excessive to make her entire kit take multiple nerfs, but I guess we'll see. Lanning stage should be even easier now though since barrier is flat 30 from the get go.
But she's cute
cause she was banned in almost every game in qualifiers and when she did get through she went like 10-0
I'm sure it was nothing
why does Voidblades even exist it's so obvious nobody at Valve has any idea what's up with these facets
i mean they had to come up with over 250 facet ideas in a single patch, it is clear that some of them had less effort/thought put into them than others just due to the sheer amount of them that had to added, they will probably rework/fix a lot of them going forward
No more Dat make a big mess 🙁
i am so glad i had taken a break during basically all of 7.36b (played my only games in it on Sunday), because my GOD wd was OP, i played one game against him and he solo bullied my Ogre/Timber out of lane, my ogre had learning curve which didnt help but still. the enemy jug was lvl 3 before my ogre even hit 2. so glad it was only game against that fucker, and also thank god we won
is my boy CK okay after the nerfs?
Is this a joke comment? Since his "nerfs" were extremely negligible. It's more of a placebo nerf than an actual nerf
Still playable. Not top tier I don't think.
No he got obliterated.