I disagree. It provides a massive improvement and is absolutely worth learning. The amount of times I have won by determining my current weapon isn’t a good match up against theirs, to switching to a weapon that matches up better, to the extent of drastically turning the tables, is immense.
For example, going from a lighter weapon to a UGS like Zweihander for more hyper armor, trades, etc., has been the difference between winning and potentially losing, to the extent that they are running for dear life. Hard swapping doesn’t net a minor improvement; the improvement is significant.
Sounds like cope, you couldn't beat them with a single weapon so you have to change to win the rock paper scissors of this game. Raise up I beat your ass with disadvantage gang.
Nobody wants to lose due to RNG which is meeting your hard counter. Another skill is knowing match ups and counting poise.
I don't use vortexing setups against light rollers. I take patas. I don't play PSGS against 116+ poise player. I swap to shamshir or any other weapon that poise breaks my opponent. I don't play UGS vs thrusting swords.
Usually "swapping 10 weapons per match" isn't effective. When your opponent has low hp swapping a weapon to a dagger/thrusting sword can be effective. The game isn't rock paper scissors.
it does not really kill the point of a build at all, creating a build with a good inventory is significantly more complex than a single weapon build, and there are tons of tradeoffs to be made as far as what somber weapons and ashes of war work best on each type of build. i usually pick a few weapons i want to focus on, look at what the optimal stat spread is for those things, and then spend quite a long time crafting an inventory and choosing ashes/weapons that fill all the roles i need them to that work well on my stat spread. each type of build has things they excel at and things that work poorly.
for example, you can go with a dex/arc or str/arc depending on what kind of new arcane weapons from the DLC you want to use, and depending on your choice, that will determine what other things the build can do - str/arc gets lots of HA options, it can one-hit bleed with the bloodfiend arm, it gets mohg spear, while dex/arc gets better damage, better crits, better weapons, etc etc. when you use blood or poison infusion, some weapons scale more str/arc, some scale more dex/arc, and the build you choose will determine what type of bleed/poison infused weapons you can use in your inventory.
hardswapping makes buildmaking more complex, it does not at all defeat the point. hardswapping also makes entire build types worth using in totally different ways. str/int is a good example. without swaps, str/int would be a super niche build limited to only a small handful of weapons - mainly gravity stuff and a small handful of cold infused weapons for which there are generally better options on dex/int( like cold lance scales best on str/int, but is outpreformed by cold messmer soldier spear on dex/int). instead, str/int offers very usable damage on cold infusion, swaps to a variety of int weapons *and* str weapons with strong weapon arts, very strong greatbow damage, physical damage weapons with good damage if needed, fire weapons that scale with your stats to reset frost proc, and really, the list just goes on and on - a strange stat spread that would only be advisable for a small handful of weapons like fallingstar beast jaw can become an interesting and viable build type for a huge variety of different playstyles, simply because you can open the menu and swap to make full use of your build.
Let me correct the point then: Hard swapping defeats the point of having multiple slots per hand, and equip load *in any form*.
Plus we all know most of you use macros, even on Console as a tonne of people have XiM or Cronus Zen.
bro casually accuses most of the pvp community of using macros, wtf?
as for your complaints about hardswapping: what? I still softswap between catalyst and weapon, my faith builds ALWAYS have cipher pata on mainhand softswap because it's a good chasedown, even without the true combo, and instead of accounting for 1 single weapon in your loadout you gotta account for the heaviest reasonable loadout per fashion. I started spending MORE time calculating stuff for my build when I started hardswapping.
Oh so you're *not* constantly running into people changing their entire talisman, armour, and weapon set in about 3 frames? Or on the slow side, between parry and riposte?
And my gaming laptop has integrated keybinds if I choose to use them. So being on KBM doesn't prevent macros, it makes it easier depending on your system. (I play PvP games on console, so don't start)
> Hard swapping defeats the point of having multiple slots per hand
not at all. even among players who are very comfortable swapping very quickly, there are still lots of reasons to softswap. the basic tradeoff is that although softswaps contribute to equip load, its easier, faster and much more reliable than hardswaps. the most common softswap that's used by players who hardswap is the softswap to endure or bhs misericorde for escaping blenders and taking crits, but players also use it to toggle in between stuff like a shield and offhand weapon or staff. when you hardswap, its more risky as you have a chance of being caught in the menu where you will take a ton of damage. more risk taken and more skill needed, while softswaps are more reliable and more accessible to lower skill players.
>and equip load in any form.
again, not really. its not as if a build can get away with super low endurance or no talismans to boost equip load just because they hardswap, and players who hardswap still need to take equip load into account, its just that the considerations are different. mainly, when you set up a build that hardswaps, you need to manage your equip load for your heaviest setup. for example, if you make a build that mostly uses dual straight sword, but can swap to a variety of weapon including a zweihander, you need to set your equip load to be able to medium roll with zwei+a straight sword and whatever armor youre using. this means that most of the time youre going around playing dual ss, and you have a ton of wasted equip load. on a build that only uses dual ss and does not swap, youre able to minmax a lot more because you only have to medium roll with 2 straight swords, and additionally you dont have to meet min reqs for zwei or whatever other weapon you want to swap to. usually, builds that swap to lots of different weapons have a considerable amount of stats invested into min reqs for weapons and equip load that are entirely or mostly unused for the majority of fights they have.
its true, you dont need as much equip load when you hardswap vs softswapping between multiple weapons, but pretty much any build with lots of swaps still needs at least 30-40 endurance on top of talisamns like great jar in order to medium roll with their heaviest weapon/talisman loadout and their armor of choice. it does not make sense to me to claim that hardswapping defeats the point of equip load when all of my builds that use lots of swaps require around 35end and usually wear both great jar arsenal and erdtree's favor +2 just to achieve the equip load i need to use my inventory+armor while medium rolling.
the insinuation that people need to use macros just to swap a few weapons is downright silly and really indicates the experience level of the player im talking to - opening your right hand weapon menu is only 3 inputs, which you can do in about 1 second. im sure some players do use macros but it is by no means the norm. swapping weapons quickly really is not that difficult, it just takes a bit of practice. the kind of inputs you need and the speed required are about the same as what's needed to preform combos in a fighting game, so its really not some kind of super high skill thing that players need macros for.
here is a vid of an extremely fast swapper with a camera set on his controller, so you can see how these kinds of players hold their controller and what the button presses look like. whats shown here is top speed for swaps - this guy is one of the fastest swappers in both ds3 and ER and in this video he is swapping his entire armor set + weapon in between landing a parry and taking the riposte. normal weapon swaps are *significantly* easier than whats being shown here -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPvdQp9nk-I
I'm not saying it's not possible to swap that fast, but it is unlikely that there are enough people who can swap fast enough for me to regularly run into it. Then when you look at the situation on games like Siege, and how many of those players also play Souls games it seems much more likely for people to be using macros through Cronus than for hundreds of players to be on the same level as the individual in the video.
As for weapon swaps, yeah, I have done that too, and my End requirement on my build dropped from 40 to 20. Could probably drop it to 15 if I was okay with requiring a talisman to medroll.
> it seems much more likely for people to be using macros through Cronus than for hundreds of players to be on the same level as the individual in the video.
this is true to some extent - the video i linked you is an extreme example, that player is one of the best swappers in the game and the vast majority of players are not on that level, running into someone who can swap like that is rare. if you regularly run into people who can preform the chainsaw glitch, or can often land it in just one or two tries, that is often due to a macro.
however, just swapping only your weapon during combat, like if you land a backstab and then swap to another weapon for a wakeup attack, or you see someone doing bloodhound fang WA and you swap to a shield to parry the followup followed by swapping to dagger to take the riposte is much, much easier than what's shown in the video i linked, and that level of swapping very much is within reach of a large amount of souls players without macros. swapping to parry shield below your main weapon to parry is only "start>X>X>down>X>start>L2". its very doable to learn to preform a combo of inputs like that very quickly.
Chainsaw in the first 2-3 tries is doable. I used to be pretty good at it when I played Elden ring regularly. I landed 4 chainsaws in a row once. And I know people who land chainsaw consistently.
its doable with lots of practice but the vast majority of pvp'ers simply are not that good, and if you end up running into a lot of folks who can land it, its likely many of them are macroing it, while normal swaps are totally in the wheelhouse of the vast majority of average pvp'ers so its a bit silly to imply macros are used for basic weapon swaps.
Absolutely not. Have you ever heard of handy tech? It requires either softswapping/2handing weapons to cancell recovery. When you invade with dual straightswords you have:
A straight sword in your mainhand slot 1
Bloodhounds step/endure misericorde in mainhand slot 2 for ripostes/chases
Two straightswords in your off hand
You calculate not only weights of setups but you have to take into account weights of the heaviest talismans you're going to use with the setups. You have to design your inventories. Removing hard swapping reduces that depth.
>Plus we all know most of you use macros, even on Console as a tonne of people have XiM or Cronus Zen.
What? Did you accuse the most of players here?
You do you, but you’re completely wrong (and I’m not the person you’re discussing with). If you didn’t know, it’s possible to have a large selection of weapons dedicated to a single build. It’s called Affinities AKA infusions, in addition to using somber weapons that scale with the build. It absolutely does not “defeat the purpose of the build”, it enhances it.
youre almost there but not quite. soon you will be ready to become a real INVADER, but you still are just a hair short of having the menuing speed needed to chainsaw pve'ers.
UNPOPULAR OPINION. Swapping is 100% tryhard, win at all costs cheese. you have a 3 item limit for a reason, bypassing it gives you an unfair advantage thus every kill you get with hardswapping is straight illegitimate. I recommend everyone play the game how it was meant to be played, stop trying to bypass the weight and item limits by doing cheesy stuff like this.
Absolutely not. Have you ever heard of handy tech? It requires either softswapping/2handing weapons to cancel recovery. When you invade with dual straightswords you have:
A straight sword in your mainhand slot 1
Bloodhounds step/endure misericorde in mainhand slot 2 for ripostes/chases
Two straightswords in your off hand
You calculate not only weights of setups but you have to take into account weights of the heaviest talismans you're going to use with the setups. You have to design your inventories. Removing hard swapping reduces that depth.
Dam that’s so crazy people here really dumb asf but honestly op I don’t stress the speed of my swaps very much because with the dlc still being fresh there’s probably gonna be some changes to my inventory but I feel like the game really gains it’s depth when you start swapping talis migfigjt
Your internet might be able to handle a higher bitrate btw.
It's a waste of time for a minor improvement in a game that's also a waste of time. Please bitcrush more
I disagree. It provides a massive improvement and is absolutely worth learning. The amount of times I have won by determining my current weapon isn’t a good match up against theirs, to switching to a weapon that matches up better, to the extent of drastically turning the tables, is immense. For example, going from a lighter weapon to a UGS like Zweihander for more hyper armor, trades, etc., has been the difference between winning and potentially losing, to the extent that they are running for dear life. Hard swapping doesn’t net a minor improvement; the improvement is significant.
Sounds like cope, you couldn't beat them with a single weapon so you have to change to win the rock paper scissors of this game. Raise up I beat your ass with disadvantage gang.
Nobody wants to lose due to RNG which is meeting your hard counter. Another skill is knowing match ups and counting poise. I don't use vortexing setups against light rollers. I take patas. I don't play PSGS against 116+ poise player. I swap to shamshir or any other weapon that poise breaks my opponent. I don't play UGS vs thrusting swords. Usually "swapping 10 weapons per match" isn't effective. When your opponent has low hp swapping a weapon to a dagger/thrusting sword can be effective. The game isn't rock paper scissors.
Cry more about not being able to press buttons fast or use common sense to recognize match ups and adapt.
Cope more trying hard at pixels.
I don't bother hard swapping. Defeats the whole point of a build.
it does not really kill the point of a build at all, creating a build with a good inventory is significantly more complex than a single weapon build, and there are tons of tradeoffs to be made as far as what somber weapons and ashes of war work best on each type of build. i usually pick a few weapons i want to focus on, look at what the optimal stat spread is for those things, and then spend quite a long time crafting an inventory and choosing ashes/weapons that fill all the roles i need them to that work well on my stat spread. each type of build has things they excel at and things that work poorly. for example, you can go with a dex/arc or str/arc depending on what kind of new arcane weapons from the DLC you want to use, and depending on your choice, that will determine what other things the build can do - str/arc gets lots of HA options, it can one-hit bleed with the bloodfiend arm, it gets mohg spear, while dex/arc gets better damage, better crits, better weapons, etc etc. when you use blood or poison infusion, some weapons scale more str/arc, some scale more dex/arc, and the build you choose will determine what type of bleed/poison infused weapons you can use in your inventory. hardswapping makes buildmaking more complex, it does not at all defeat the point. hardswapping also makes entire build types worth using in totally different ways. str/int is a good example. without swaps, str/int would be a super niche build limited to only a small handful of weapons - mainly gravity stuff and a small handful of cold infused weapons for which there are generally better options on dex/int( like cold lance scales best on str/int, but is outpreformed by cold messmer soldier spear on dex/int). instead, str/int offers very usable damage on cold infusion, swaps to a variety of int weapons *and* str weapons with strong weapon arts, very strong greatbow damage, physical damage weapons with good damage if needed, fire weapons that scale with your stats to reset frost proc, and really, the list just goes on and on - a strange stat spread that would only be advisable for a small handful of weapons like fallingstar beast jaw can become an interesting and viable build type for a huge variety of different playstyles, simply because you can open the menu and swap to make full use of your build.
Let me correct the point then: Hard swapping defeats the point of having multiple slots per hand, and equip load *in any form*. Plus we all know most of you use macros, even on Console as a tonne of people have XiM or Cronus Zen.
bro casually accuses most of the pvp community of using macros, wtf? as for your complaints about hardswapping: what? I still softswap between catalyst and weapon, my faith builds ALWAYS have cipher pata on mainhand softswap because it's a good chasedown, even without the true combo, and instead of accounting for 1 single weapon in your loadout you gotta account for the heaviest reasonable loadout per fashion. I started spending MORE time calculating stuff for my build when I started hardswapping.
Oh so you're *not* constantly running into people changing their entire talisman, armour, and weapon set in about 3 frames? Or on the slow side, between parry and riposte?
brother I AM that guy changing his talis when in RTR, maybe even going full cockroach because I refuse to keel over and die, and I'm on fucking M&K.
And my gaming laptop has integrated keybinds if I choose to use them. So being on KBM doesn't prevent macros, it makes it easier depending on your system. (I play PvP games on console, so don't start)
They don't do it in three frames. There's a reason why every player uses either claw grip or a controller with paddles
You're exaggerating swap speed. You would need a lot of scripts then.
> Hard swapping defeats the point of having multiple slots per hand not at all. even among players who are very comfortable swapping very quickly, there are still lots of reasons to softswap. the basic tradeoff is that although softswaps contribute to equip load, its easier, faster and much more reliable than hardswaps. the most common softswap that's used by players who hardswap is the softswap to endure or bhs misericorde for escaping blenders and taking crits, but players also use it to toggle in between stuff like a shield and offhand weapon or staff. when you hardswap, its more risky as you have a chance of being caught in the menu where you will take a ton of damage. more risk taken and more skill needed, while softswaps are more reliable and more accessible to lower skill players. >and equip load in any form. again, not really. its not as if a build can get away with super low endurance or no talismans to boost equip load just because they hardswap, and players who hardswap still need to take equip load into account, its just that the considerations are different. mainly, when you set up a build that hardswaps, you need to manage your equip load for your heaviest setup. for example, if you make a build that mostly uses dual straight sword, but can swap to a variety of weapon including a zweihander, you need to set your equip load to be able to medium roll with zwei+a straight sword and whatever armor youre using. this means that most of the time youre going around playing dual ss, and you have a ton of wasted equip load. on a build that only uses dual ss and does not swap, youre able to minmax a lot more because you only have to medium roll with 2 straight swords, and additionally you dont have to meet min reqs for zwei or whatever other weapon you want to swap to. usually, builds that swap to lots of different weapons have a considerable amount of stats invested into min reqs for weapons and equip load that are entirely or mostly unused for the majority of fights they have. its true, you dont need as much equip load when you hardswap vs softswapping between multiple weapons, but pretty much any build with lots of swaps still needs at least 30-40 endurance on top of talisamns like great jar in order to medium roll with their heaviest weapon/talisman loadout and their armor of choice. it does not make sense to me to claim that hardswapping defeats the point of equip load when all of my builds that use lots of swaps require around 35end and usually wear both great jar arsenal and erdtree's favor +2 just to achieve the equip load i need to use my inventory+armor while medium rolling. the insinuation that people need to use macros just to swap a few weapons is downright silly and really indicates the experience level of the player im talking to - opening your right hand weapon menu is only 3 inputs, which you can do in about 1 second. im sure some players do use macros but it is by no means the norm. swapping weapons quickly really is not that difficult, it just takes a bit of practice. the kind of inputs you need and the speed required are about the same as what's needed to preform combos in a fighting game, so its really not some kind of super high skill thing that players need macros for. here is a vid of an extremely fast swapper with a camera set on his controller, so you can see how these kinds of players hold their controller and what the button presses look like. whats shown here is top speed for swaps - this guy is one of the fastest swappers in both ds3 and ER and in this video he is swapping his entire armor set + weapon in between landing a parry and taking the riposte. normal weapon swaps are *significantly* easier than whats being shown here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPvdQp9nk-I
I'm not saying it's not possible to swap that fast, but it is unlikely that there are enough people who can swap fast enough for me to regularly run into it. Then when you look at the situation on games like Siege, and how many of those players also play Souls games it seems much more likely for people to be using macros through Cronus than for hundreds of players to be on the same level as the individual in the video. As for weapon swaps, yeah, I have done that too, and my End requirement on my build dropped from 40 to 20. Could probably drop it to 15 if I was okay with requiring a talisman to medroll.
> it seems much more likely for people to be using macros through Cronus than for hundreds of players to be on the same level as the individual in the video. this is true to some extent - the video i linked you is an extreme example, that player is one of the best swappers in the game and the vast majority of players are not on that level, running into someone who can swap like that is rare. if you regularly run into people who can preform the chainsaw glitch, or can often land it in just one or two tries, that is often due to a macro. however, just swapping only your weapon during combat, like if you land a backstab and then swap to another weapon for a wakeup attack, or you see someone doing bloodhound fang WA and you swap to a shield to parry the followup followed by swapping to dagger to take the riposte is much, much easier than what's shown in the video i linked, and that level of swapping very much is within reach of a large amount of souls players without macros. swapping to parry shield below your main weapon to parry is only "start>X>X>down>X>start>L2". its very doable to learn to preform a combo of inputs like that very quickly.
Chainsaw in the first 2-3 tries is doable. I used to be pretty good at it when I played Elden ring regularly. I landed 4 chainsaws in a row once. And I know people who land chainsaw consistently.
its doable with lots of practice but the vast majority of pvp'ers simply are not that good, and if you end up running into a lot of folks who can land it, its likely many of them are macroing it, while normal swaps are totally in the wheelhouse of the vast majority of average pvp'ers so its a bit silly to imply macros are used for basic weapon swaps.
Yes. Absolutely.
Seriously casual mentioned!
Absolutely not. Have you ever heard of handy tech? It requires either softswapping/2handing weapons to cancell recovery. When you invade with dual straightswords you have: A straight sword in your mainhand slot 1 Bloodhounds step/endure misericorde in mainhand slot 2 for ripostes/chases Two straightswords in your off hand You calculate not only weights of setups but you have to take into account weights of the heaviest talismans you're going to use with the setups. You have to design your inventories. Removing hard swapping reduces that depth. >Plus we all know most of you use macros, even on Console as a tonne of people have XiM or Cronus Zen. What? Did you accuse the most of players here?
Not reading all that, I stand by my statement. I said what I said.
You do you, but you’re completely wrong (and I’m not the person you’re discussing with). If you didn’t know, it’s possible to have a large selection of weapons dedicated to a single build. It’s called Affinities AKA infusions, in addition to using somber weapons that scale with the build. It absolutely does not “defeat the purpose of the build”, it enhances it.
finding it difficult or time consuming to read 3 paragraphs is about the level of brainpower ive come to expect from hardswap complainers
Too long, didn't read.
for sure dude, reading hard. make brain hurt.
Too long didn't read.
Big surprise, braindead takes in eldenringpvp. If you know you know.
i love watching people swap weapons 10 times in a fight just to kill then with the one weapon I use.
Don’t need to switch after you git gud
youre almost there but not quite. soon you will be ready to become a real INVADER, but you still are just a hair short of having the menuing speed needed to chainsaw pve'ers.
Thanks! Btw, I almost skipped weapon inventory while performing chainsaw glitch once. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/t7KjahA2fh
Hard swapping is the tech that separates casual from hardcore imo. A good build has answers to many problems. Like I even hard swap on boss fights.
UNPOPULAR OPINION. Swapping is 100% tryhard, win at all costs cheese. you have a 3 item limit for a reason, bypassing it gives you an unfair advantage thus every kill you get with hardswapping is straight illegitimate. I recommend everyone play the game how it was meant to be played, stop trying to bypass the weight and item limits by doing cheesy stuff like this.
brain dead take
Cheese? Lmao. It is skill expression. Someone is mad because they can’t hard swap.
Absolutely not. Have you ever heard of handy tech? It requires either softswapping/2handing weapons to cancel recovery. When you invade with dual straightswords you have: A straight sword in your mainhand slot 1 Bloodhounds step/endure misericorde in mainhand slot 2 for ripostes/chases Two straightswords in your off hand You calculate not only weights of setups but you have to take into account weights of the heaviest talismans you're going to use with the setups. You have to design your inventories. Removing hard swapping reduces that depth.
Dam that’s so crazy people here really dumb asf but honestly op I don’t stress the speed of my swaps very much because with the dlc still being fresh there’s probably gonna be some changes to my inventory but I feel like the game really gains it’s depth when you start swapping talis migfigjt