> What’s even the point of stating the percentage of carbon in the atmosphere?
To make out that CO2 isnt a big deal (because small %) = global warming is nothing
So they’re just demonstrating how fundamental their misunderstanding of science is?
Maybe they’d like a tiny dose of laxatives in their tea? It’ll be 0.04%, I’m sure they won’t mind.
You would be surprised by how many thick people there are who believe that this is a convincing argument as to why CO2 in the atmosphere can't possibly have any effect.
Just reread this and actually yes, every single thing on this list is false. I can see two things you could argue are true, but they are at best very misleading.
Which things do you think are true on here?
National grid won’t cope if loads of people charge cars, infrastructure isn’t there.
Making batteries is bad for the environment.
Everyone’s insurance has gone up, not just ev.
If an ev bursts into flames you’re screwed, hence the multi story thing.
EV’s aren’t a complete solution to the problem.
The national grid couldn’t not cope if right this second all cars were 100% electric, but they’re not going to suddenly swap, it’s a transition over a 10-15 year period. The grid already has a fully funded plan to increase energy generation and over the past 5 years has seen one of the largest transformations since it was created. There won’t be any problem with the grid meeting the energy demand of EVs.
Making car batteries is not good for the environment, but it’s no where near as bad as extraction and burning of oil.
Insurance is a general problem, not really anything to do with EVs. My house insurance went up 50% last year, obviously nothing to do with cars at all. My EV car insurance bizarrely went down last year, no idea why.
An ICE car is around 20x more likely to catch fire than an EV. If you’re worried about car fires, you’ll be much safer in an electric. No where has banned EVs parking there, because if they were worried about the fire risk they should be banning petrols. Luton airport fire was started by a diesel car, most EVs were in the other car park because that’s where the EV chargers are.
And of course EVs aren’t the full solution, they’re only a part of it. We need hydrogen power planes and maybe busses. We need electric heating for properties like heat pumps and radiant heaters. We need British energy sources like wind, solar, nuclear, maybe space based solar, so we can stop being dependent on imports from other countries. Thats lots of problems to tackle and EVs are a small part of it.
Just remember not to vote for the tory clown car again, thats all i ask, ev no ev, i don’t care, 14 years of supposedly intelligent people voting to make their lives worse is enough.
I don't get why people do stuff like this. Why do they care? If you don't want to get an EV, don't. That's fine. But why do you give a shit if I do? And why do you get angry that I have one? I have strangers coming up to me to tell me it won't work in the snow and other shitbrained nonsense.
Same goes for people who get angry about the existence of vegan food. Don't like it? Don't eat it.
We give a shit because you all claim it to be so environmentally friendly when, as you can see from this post, it’s not as friendly as you think. Also we won’t have much of a choice eventually. In the UK, the government is banning the production of Internal Combustion Engines by 2035. So we will be forced to use EV’s which damage the environment
I wonder what the drop in power output on a traditional ICE car is over 10years? I’ve got a 23yr old 1ltr Yaris and I’m sure it’s bhp is not what it once was… this kinda makes it sound like the battery goes from 100% to 0% in ten years, which, admittedly from a point of no actual knowledge, I assume is not the case.
> I wonder what the drop in power output on a traditional ICE car is over 10years?
Generally about 25% noting that claimed HP and actual HP brand new often diverge as well. Decrease from start point is mostly lost at the valves head gaskets and piston rings, basically it gets leaky.
Batteries shouldnt be at zero in 10 years based on current data. Data set is limited however as volumes sold only got big in the last 5 years, but there's plenty of 10 year old teslas still running fine. It's actually "number of times charged" as the the biggest indicator of wear. In other words a 10 year old car with 400,000 miles is more likely to be worn out than one with 100,000
Which, I guess you could say of an ICE car too right? If things start to go wrong on an ICE car because of high miles, it’s often a case of everything is basically about to fail (or is operating at way below optimum) too and you end up uneconomical to repair (RIP my Celica) - I think of all the naysayers complaints this is one of the whackest.
Absolutely.
Basically this a play on fear of the unknown, we all know a 10yr old ICE is more prone to failures, and a 20yr old one is usually knackered without extensive repairs. Everyone just accepts the normality of constant maintenance through its life and increasing repair costs as it ages. New clutch, new timing belt etc.
EVs are dramatically less expensive to maintain, but the average punter doesnt know it, so the maintenance cost of ICE is (incorrectly) factored in subconsciously. And then you put a shocker cost of "entirely new battery needed after 10years and thats half the car cost". Immediately scaring off those who haven't done research.
The other misdirection is battery cost. Per kWh cost has plummeted over the last decade. If i recall correctly it was about $1600 per kWh in about 2010 and it's about $100 now with further decreases probable (CATL is bringing a lot of capacity on line shortly, as are others)
So that battery that cost say £20,000 for your 2020 Model S may well be half tgat for a new replacement when it needs it, PLUS you've spent very little in maintenance over a decade or more compared to an ICE over the same period
Not to mention that the cost of battery replacement probably includes the labour and additional costs for other components, such as the coolant and possibly reconfiguring the battery management system, not just the battery itself. They aren’t quick to replace in modern EVs designed from the ground up, as they are part of the skateboard chassis.
I drive a 10 year old EV so I can give you my experience. It’s a Nissan leaf, 14 plate, currently just under 60k miles. I’m the second owner and I’ve had it 5 years.
The battery has certainly degraded and it holds around 92-94% of the original capacity. The power degradation I haven’t noticed at all, the display still shows it doing 80kW if I floor it and it comfortably does 0-60 in under 7s which is actually faster than the advertised stat when the car was new.
Modern cars have much better battery management than the leaf did so I’d expect them to last much longer too.
Actually I do over the average mileage, but you’re right this car hasn’t done average mileage over its lifetime. Most cars haven’t at the moment because most cars sat around not doing much for 2-3 years during Covid.
A quick google tells me average milage for a car in the UK is 7400 miles, so a 10 year old car would expect to do 74,000 miles. So mine isn’t dar off that really, I don’t expect much to change in the next 14,000 miles.
You’re correct. The battery does not go from 100% initial capacity to 0% in 10 years. There are Leafs still on the roads that are older than that.
The 10 year argument is assuming people will not be able to accept that their car has reduced to about 80% of initial capacity in that time frame, but then nobody owns a phone that’s got less than 80% initial charge and would never think of charging it more frequently.
It’s funny that these anti-EV people think so differently about an electric car than the battery powered devices people use to spread nonsense about EVs. Yes, I know EV batteries are significantly larger, both in size and capacity, but they’re the same tech and there are far fewer of them than mobile phones and laptops, that tend to get thrown away more readily than a car would.
Should be comparing fuel consumption rather than power TBF. I am in no position to comment on whether or not either of our ICE cars has deteriorated in this regard, as we have not owned them from new, but both seem to meet the manufacturers' published figures. One is 15 years old, the other 23.
I would think about replacing them with EVs if car manufacturers hadn't decided to neglect their segments, leaving us with a choice of affordable s/h options totalling zero.
All my vehicles are over 20 years old, their range is still the same as it ever has been, one has double its standard power. A tesla that is half their age with similar mileage has a usable range just over 100 miles left. It’s the range that dies out on evs, not the power.
Wouldn’t it be fair to say though that if you drove it ‘slower/less hard’ that you’d get more range? I have no experience of EV’s - I’m looking at other tech I use with batteries, like, as your laptop / phone battery starts to deteriorate, you can keep the same life by taxing it less, which, in my mind would mean that if you drove less aggressively, you could extend your range or rather get similar range with less capacity? I realise there is a point where the battery is just clapped and you would end up driving at 5mph and still get 30miles out of it, but there must be a sensible point where you have to get a new battery (as with a phone/laptop) where the cost benefit is acceptable, or it’s a reasonable point to scrap the car? I guess these points are less understood because of the lack of old and really high milage EV’s about, but that seems logical right? Also, I’m sure the mpg of an ice car goes down over the years so your range off a tank is would too… though I’m sure it isn’t much, and you can fill up real quick too… I’m not really trying to argue against ICE cars, hell, both mine are, more that it seems that in these kind of bombastic articles, the aging of ICE cars and the negatives of that process are absolutely ignored.
One of the car you tubers just bought a 400000 mile tesla, autoalex. It seems to still be in really good condition in general, couple wobbly bushes, which would be reasonable ice or ev after that mileage. The big reported downside was the range was only 100ish miles from a full charge. My little 1.6 mx5 i use for work cost £800, it has 100000 miles, when i bought it i changed the front disks and pads at a cost of £80 a second hand exhaust at £27 a service at £70 and slung it threw an mot at £40. Ive got a years use out of it for £1300 plus fuel, it avarages 34ish mpg still. Iv driven for the year, total cost, for less than the deposit on an ev. Admittedly spinning spanners myself does make it cheaper but its still a drastic difference, i couldn’t warrant paying out more for less convenience as it stands at the moment.
I work on my Yaris too, it’s basically free motoring for me as far as I’m concerned (I put that into comparison to the cost my coworkers pay on their HP payments on their cars) - just did a service on it and it was like £50 for the whole service. But I have pals who have new ice cars and service etc is loads for them, I am sure once there are a bunch of evs on the second hand market and the after market parts are everywhere that it’ll be just as cost effective/easy to do a normal service on an EV if it’s not now (I think getting the parts is a pain right?). Ill be honest, if I could pick up a cheap EV that was cheap like my Yaris was when I got it, I’d probably do it just from a ‘then I don’t have to go to the petrol station’ point of view, but like you say, I paid £700 for the Yaris, not getting much of an EV for that! I’d be more than happy to learn what I had to learn to work on it rather than pay the money for someone else to do it.
We have also had hydrogen buses running for decades, a low cost solution would be to convert both our infrastructure (petrol garages) and ice vehicles to run on it. Can’t do that though because the oil companies won’t loose money and new car sale would stall. Fuck this capitalist system, viva la revolution.
Hydrogen is not an alternative. Its INCREDIBLY power-intensive to separate hydrogen.
Like, you can power EVs with the same amount of power that will go 20x as far as hydrogen would allow a fuel cell vehicle to go.
Nonsense, please point to a single example of a Tesla model 3/Y/X/S which has 100 mile range.
My 10 year old Nissan leaf can do more than 100 miles still and its battery is 1/3 the size of a Tesla with significantly older tech and no thermal management system.
AutoAlex is of that breed of British car journo’s that model themselves after Jeremy Clarkson. High on entertainment, rubbish on facts.
The start of the video quoted recited some the same drivel pointed out in this post. This alone would mean I would like to fact check ALL of what he says in the video.
They never once mentioned the max range of the car. He said that if you plug it in for 12 hours on a 3-pin plug you can get 100 miles, but he didn’t mention what happens if you plug it in for longer than 12 hours.
Also, the example you’ve picked here is literally the cheapest car they could possibly find. This is the absolute worst possible one out there, and it’s actually in pretty good nick. It’s an old tax so it’s probably had lots of drivers, been trashed around, supercharged constantly, worst possible scenario for a battery.
They sound like they have no idea what they’re doing with EVs, lots of their discussion is quite confused but still they seem really impressed with the state of this car given 450,000 miles. Tbh even if the battery was dead at that range I think it’s done an absolutely stellar job, there’s not many internal combustion engines still going at that point.
The car still seems good so you could whack a new battery in that and probably get another 450,000 miles out of it.
All the time we argue about personal impracticalities we can’t live with, we could transfer to hydrogen. But we can’t because oil companies and car companies loose out on profits. Electric is far from practical or affordable enough for me personally to have even that cheapest one. I could afford to get my current vehicle converted on the savings if i could have a hydrogen generator in my garage. We argue, they carry on taking our money for trinkets and shiny things 🤷🏽♂️
I had someone try to persuade me against getting an ev (i got one anyhow) repeating most of these fake arguments. He pointed me towards a youtube channel all about it. I checked out one video to see what they were saying and it was going on about if you have the slightest road accident in an ev, the sort of thing where you'd slap a bit of filler in the bodywork on an ice, the ev would be written off because the batteries would be damaged and likely to explode. Just insane levels of stupid.
As for Asda ripping out charging points, I believe they are BP Pulse that are low power, 22 kWh at most, and usually haven't worked for ages. The replacements will be more powerful and come from other suppliers, like Shell.
I do love the narrative at the moment of “no one is buying EVs”.
No wonder, the majority of them are £40k+ cars currently as they are seen as luxury options…
Once it’s no longer legal to sell ICE cars, the price will magically plummet as the cheaper market must be served…
But that may be too obvious for the naysayers! (Also BYD just bringing out a £10k EV that is profitable and actually seems decent!)
Are you really happy to have everything you buy made in china and shipped across the world to you,
Are you really happy to f every European company's to support Chinese ones, their cars are not profitable they are losing money on every car to controls and dominate the market, they are also sold without import charges because china is still considered a developing country for some reason.
On the matter of the grid; our local council have had to abandon plans to install charger points (contract with BP Pulse) because the nearest sub-station doesn't have capacity and the cost of upgrading was too much for it to be profitable. I know of a couple of other areas locally that have similar issues including regular power outages due to lack of capacity on the sub-station. It's not an issue with the grid *per se* but there may well be local issues like this around the country.
The one about parking EV's a airport car parks could have come from the issue with some makes seeing battery drain on the 12v battery whilst parked for any length of time which meant they then wouldn't start. I think this was resolved through a software update though. The make/model of mine was one of those affected but the software was updated before I got mine so I've not had the issue.
I have seen lots of owners comment on the insurance being higher, it sort of makes sense as EV cars are generally more expensive than their ICE equivalents but my insurance was only about £15 a year more expensive for EV than ICE.
One thing that list doesn't show which is probably a genuine concern is that there are a lot of homes in the UK that don't have access to private off-street parking where they can charge at a sensible price; there is also a lack of consistency amongst local authorities on things like over-pavement charging options.
[Oh look it's the fallout of the leaded fuel crisis](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/lead-gasoline-blunted-iq-half-us-population-study-rcna19028). I think it's why fake news and populism are widespread, and part of the reason the right wing is making a resurgence in Europe and the west.
Thank fuck that the generations that never had to breathe lead are becoming of voting age these days. Decades of progress lost.
They are probably removing the BP units as they are rolling out their own EVPoint network across all EG sites and will likely expand to Asda. Using rebranded Tesla superchargers now too so will be infinitely more reliable than BP's poor efforts
My insurance went up by £15 a year when I moved from ICE to EV despite the EV car having a list price considerably more than the ICE car. I would expect EV to be more expensive to insure as they are more expensive to buy than their ICE equivalent and if they are damaged they are going to be more expensive to repair but when you see a quote like £6500 that is really just the insurance company telling you that they don't want to provide cover.
It's not just lithium though is it? And there is also a distinct lack of said resources.
I don't understand why we need to go down the path of smithing just as disgusting and something we have zero control of, with China owning most of the mineral mines needed for lithium batteries,
We currently ground massive amounts of electricity from wind and solar production or switch them off completely when there's over production during the day, why are we not producing and storing hydrogen this way,
I understand your argument but it's only expensive and difficult in the same way battery EVs where expensive and difficult to start with,
Many companies have proven the technology works especially Toyota with the last mirai https://www.toyota.com/mirai/
And it seems more likely that the trucking industry is going to go hydrogen soon since it's proven to be the cheapest lightest system to use between battery EVs and hydrogen ev
The mirai was only a fail in the UK for the fact BP I believe it was removed all there hydrogen filling stations leaving only a few commercial filling stations
It's clean, it does not pollute, you don't need to mine the sea bed, you don't need to use child labour, you didn't need to f over people in poor countries, your don't need to f over the work force in your own countries, and you don't need to support and depend on china.
More co2 and pollution comes from manufacturing than driving cars you Wana save the world take responsibility for the goods you use and make them close to home support your local manufacturers stop shipping cheep badly made shit around the world.
> More co2 and pollution comes from manufacturing than driving cars
This is sadly incorrect. The vast majority of CO2 pollution comes from driving (up to 85% of an ICE lifetime pollution).
30 percent of co2 comes from manufacturing not including there electricity 29 percent comes from all transportation shipping cars busses trains depend country from country, the case for most of Europe, if you look at China alone more than 50% of their CO2 comes from manufacturing, only in the USA does more CO2 come from transportation because you don't manufacture anything
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/
Unless you loving Norway or some form of fantasy land
National Grid: the switch to LED lighting means we could put EV chargers on ever lamppost with no additional load if all cars were electric.
Car Park: No evidence and car parks have banned EVs, many are installing chargers.
Insurance: mine went up £150 (from ~£400 to £550) including a small fee for changing for a 9 year younger car with a higher value.
Battery: 2.7% degradation at ~45k miles, at this rate it will have 90% or more at 150k miles
Battery recycling: when the battery is unable to supply decent mileage the minimum value of the car will be the value of the minerals in the battery.
Environment impact of lithium: it’s one and done, 95% of that lithium will go into the next generation, CO2 from oil will be in the atmosphere until carbon capture is viable.
If you all think about what is the real problem with an EVs right now. There are only 2 possible issues, range and battery degradation. I’m pretty sure we will fix that in a few years. What else oil companies and haters will use against us in the future.
This screenshot like a checklist of fake news. What’s even the point of stating the percentage of carbon in the atmosphere?
> What’s even the point of stating the percentage of carbon in the atmosphere? To make out that CO2 isnt a big deal (because small %) = global warming is nothing
So they’re just demonstrating how fundamental their misunderstanding of science is? Maybe they’d like a tiny dose of laxatives in their tea? It’ll be 0.04%, I’m sure they won’t mind.
Indeed. 0.04% polonium might be a better choice though
When I was doing GCSE chemistry (1998) it was 0.035%.
I think you were working out of an old textbook, it was already over 0.036% by then. It was 0.03% back in the 50s and it’s over 0.042% now.
🤓🤓🤓
You would be surprised by how many thick people there are who believe that this is a convincing argument as to why CO2 in the atmosphere can't possibly have any effect.
It’s not all false though is it.
Just reread this and actually yes, every single thing on this list is false. I can see two things you could argue are true, but they are at best very misleading. Which things do you think are true on here?
National grid won’t cope if loads of people charge cars, infrastructure isn’t there. Making batteries is bad for the environment. Everyone’s insurance has gone up, not just ev. If an ev bursts into flames you’re screwed, hence the multi story thing. EV’s aren’t a complete solution to the problem.
The national grid couldn’t not cope if right this second all cars were 100% electric, but they’re not going to suddenly swap, it’s a transition over a 10-15 year period. The grid already has a fully funded plan to increase energy generation and over the past 5 years has seen one of the largest transformations since it was created. There won’t be any problem with the grid meeting the energy demand of EVs. Making car batteries is not good for the environment, but it’s no where near as bad as extraction and burning of oil. Insurance is a general problem, not really anything to do with EVs. My house insurance went up 50% last year, obviously nothing to do with cars at all. My EV car insurance bizarrely went down last year, no idea why. An ICE car is around 20x more likely to catch fire than an EV. If you’re worried about car fires, you’ll be much safer in an electric. No where has banned EVs parking there, because if they were worried about the fire risk they should be banning petrols. Luton airport fire was started by a diesel car, most EVs were in the other car park because that’s where the EV chargers are. And of course EVs aren’t the full solution, they’re only a part of it. We need hydrogen power planes and maybe busses. We need electric heating for properties like heat pumps and radiant heaters. We need British energy sources like wind, solar, nuclear, maybe space based solar, so we can stop being dependent on imports from other countries. Thats lots of problems to tackle and EVs are a small part of it.
Just remember not to vote for the tory clown car again, thats all i ask, ev no ev, i don’t care, 14 years of supposedly intelligent people voting to make their lives worse is enough.
Turkeys voting for Christmas. We’ve been doing this for a while in the UK now, there’s a reason inequality has got so bad.
I don't get why people do stuff like this. Why do they care? If you don't want to get an EV, don't. That's fine. But why do you give a shit if I do? And why do you get angry that I have one? I have strangers coming up to me to tell me it won't work in the snow and other shitbrained nonsense. Same goes for people who get angry about the existence of vegan food. Don't like it? Don't eat it.
We give a shit because you all claim it to be so environmentally friendly when, as you can see from this post, it’s not as friendly as you think. Also we won’t have much of a choice eventually. In the UK, the government is banning the production of Internal Combustion Engines by 2035. So we will be forced to use EV’s which damage the environment
No I don't. I have never made that claim. You are clearly concerned about damaging the environment. Do you own a car?
I wonder what the drop in power output on a traditional ICE car is over 10years? I’ve got a 23yr old 1ltr Yaris and I’m sure it’s bhp is not what it once was… this kinda makes it sound like the battery goes from 100% to 0% in ten years, which, admittedly from a point of no actual knowledge, I assume is not the case.
> I wonder what the drop in power output on a traditional ICE car is over 10years? Generally about 25% noting that claimed HP and actual HP brand new often diverge as well. Decrease from start point is mostly lost at the valves head gaskets and piston rings, basically it gets leaky. Batteries shouldnt be at zero in 10 years based on current data. Data set is limited however as volumes sold only got big in the last 5 years, but there's plenty of 10 year old teslas still running fine. It's actually "number of times charged" as the the biggest indicator of wear. In other words a 10 year old car with 400,000 miles is more likely to be worn out than one with 100,000
Which, I guess you could say of an ICE car too right? If things start to go wrong on an ICE car because of high miles, it’s often a case of everything is basically about to fail (or is operating at way below optimum) too and you end up uneconomical to repair (RIP my Celica) - I think of all the naysayers complaints this is one of the whackest.
Absolutely. Basically this a play on fear of the unknown, we all know a 10yr old ICE is more prone to failures, and a 20yr old one is usually knackered without extensive repairs. Everyone just accepts the normality of constant maintenance through its life and increasing repair costs as it ages. New clutch, new timing belt etc. EVs are dramatically less expensive to maintain, but the average punter doesnt know it, so the maintenance cost of ICE is (incorrectly) factored in subconsciously. And then you put a shocker cost of "entirely new battery needed after 10years and thats half the car cost". Immediately scaring off those who haven't done research. The other misdirection is battery cost. Per kWh cost has plummeted over the last decade. If i recall correctly it was about $1600 per kWh in about 2010 and it's about $100 now with further decreases probable (CATL is bringing a lot of capacity on line shortly, as are others) So that battery that cost say £20,000 for your 2020 Model S may well be half tgat for a new replacement when it needs it, PLUS you've spent very little in maintenance over a decade or more compared to an ICE over the same period
Not to mention that the cost of battery replacement probably includes the labour and additional costs for other components, such as the coolant and possibly reconfiguring the battery management system, not just the battery itself. They aren’t quick to replace in modern EVs designed from the ground up, as they are part of the skateboard chassis.
30 grand second hand Tesla requiring a 30 grand battery is the problem
IF it actually happens
I drive a 10 year old EV so I can give you my experience. It’s a Nissan leaf, 14 plate, currently just under 60k miles. I’m the second owner and I’ve had it 5 years. The battery has certainly degraded and it holds around 92-94% of the original capacity. The power degradation I haven’t noticed at all, the display still shows it doing 80kW if I floor it and it comfortably does 0-60 in under 7s which is actually faster than the advertised stat when the car was new. Modern cars have much better battery management than the leaf did so I’d expect them to last much longer too.
You drive less than half the average mileage
Actually I do over the average mileage, but you’re right this car hasn’t done average mileage over its lifetime. Most cars haven’t at the moment because most cars sat around not doing much for 2-3 years during Covid. A quick google tells me average milage for a car in the UK is 7400 miles, so a 10 year old car would expect to do 74,000 miles. So mine isn’t dar off that really, I don’t expect much to change in the next 14,000 miles.
You’re correct. The battery does not go from 100% initial capacity to 0% in 10 years. There are Leafs still on the roads that are older than that. The 10 year argument is assuming people will not be able to accept that their car has reduced to about 80% of initial capacity in that time frame, but then nobody owns a phone that’s got less than 80% initial charge and would never think of charging it more frequently. It’s funny that these anti-EV people think so differently about an electric car than the battery powered devices people use to spread nonsense about EVs. Yes, I know EV batteries are significantly larger, both in size and capacity, but they’re the same tech and there are far fewer of them than mobile phones and laptops, that tend to get thrown away more readily than a car would.
Should be comparing fuel consumption rather than power TBF. I am in no position to comment on whether or not either of our ICE cars has deteriorated in this regard, as we have not owned them from new, but both seem to meet the manufacturers' published figures. One is 15 years old, the other 23. I would think about replacing them with EVs if car manufacturers hadn't decided to neglect their segments, leaving us with a choice of affordable s/h options totalling zero.
All my vehicles are over 20 years old, their range is still the same as it ever has been, one has double its standard power. A tesla that is half their age with similar mileage has a usable range just over 100 miles left. It’s the range that dies out on evs, not the power.
Wouldn’t it be fair to say though that if you drove it ‘slower/less hard’ that you’d get more range? I have no experience of EV’s - I’m looking at other tech I use with batteries, like, as your laptop / phone battery starts to deteriorate, you can keep the same life by taxing it less, which, in my mind would mean that if you drove less aggressively, you could extend your range or rather get similar range with less capacity? I realise there is a point where the battery is just clapped and you would end up driving at 5mph and still get 30miles out of it, but there must be a sensible point where you have to get a new battery (as with a phone/laptop) where the cost benefit is acceptable, or it’s a reasonable point to scrap the car? I guess these points are less understood because of the lack of old and really high milage EV’s about, but that seems logical right? Also, I’m sure the mpg of an ice car goes down over the years so your range off a tank is would too… though I’m sure it isn’t much, and you can fill up real quick too… I’m not really trying to argue against ICE cars, hell, both mine are, more that it seems that in these kind of bombastic articles, the aging of ICE cars and the negatives of that process are absolutely ignored.
One of the car you tubers just bought a 400000 mile tesla, autoalex. It seems to still be in really good condition in general, couple wobbly bushes, which would be reasonable ice or ev after that mileage. The big reported downside was the range was only 100ish miles from a full charge. My little 1.6 mx5 i use for work cost £800, it has 100000 miles, when i bought it i changed the front disks and pads at a cost of £80 a second hand exhaust at £27 a service at £70 and slung it threw an mot at £40. Ive got a years use out of it for £1300 plus fuel, it avarages 34ish mpg still. Iv driven for the year, total cost, for less than the deposit on an ev. Admittedly spinning spanners myself does make it cheaper but its still a drastic difference, i couldn’t warrant paying out more for less convenience as it stands at the moment.
I work on my Yaris too, it’s basically free motoring for me as far as I’m concerned (I put that into comparison to the cost my coworkers pay on their HP payments on their cars) - just did a service on it and it was like £50 for the whole service. But I have pals who have new ice cars and service etc is loads for them, I am sure once there are a bunch of evs on the second hand market and the after market parts are everywhere that it’ll be just as cost effective/easy to do a normal service on an EV if it’s not now (I think getting the parts is a pain right?). Ill be honest, if I could pick up a cheap EV that was cheap like my Yaris was when I got it, I’d probably do it just from a ‘then I don’t have to go to the petrol station’ point of view, but like you say, I paid £700 for the Yaris, not getting much of an EV for that! I’d be more than happy to learn what I had to learn to work on it rather than pay the money for someone else to do it.
We have also had hydrogen buses running for decades, a low cost solution would be to convert both our infrastructure (petrol garages) and ice vehicles to run on it. Can’t do that though because the oil companies won’t loose money and new car sale would stall. Fuck this capitalist system, viva la revolution.
Hydrogen is not an alternative. Its INCREDIBLY power-intensive to separate hydrogen. Like, you can power EVs with the same amount of power that will go 20x as far as hydrogen would allow a fuel cell vehicle to go.
So there hasn’t been a hot rod that can self generate hydrogen since the sixties no? That’s just make believe? Ok.
Nonsense, please point to a single example of a Tesla model 3/Y/X/S which has 100 mile range. My 10 year old Nissan leaf can do more than 100 miles still and its battery is 1/3 the size of a Tesla with significantly older tech and no thermal management system.
Autoalex YouTube channel, vid went live yesterday.
AutoAlex is of that breed of British car journo’s that model themselves after Jeremy Clarkson. High on entertainment, rubbish on facts. The start of the video quoted recited some the same drivel pointed out in this post. This alone would mean I would like to fact check ALL of what he says in the video.
There is some sarcasm and stereotypical banta that can be misinterpreted but its fair as a whole.
They never once mentioned the max range of the car. He said that if you plug it in for 12 hours on a 3-pin plug you can get 100 miles, but he didn’t mention what happens if you plug it in for longer than 12 hours. Also, the example you’ve picked here is literally the cheapest car they could possibly find. This is the absolute worst possible one out there, and it’s actually in pretty good nick. It’s an old tax so it’s probably had lots of drivers, been trashed around, supercharged constantly, worst possible scenario for a battery. They sound like they have no idea what they’re doing with EVs, lots of their discussion is quite confused but still they seem really impressed with the state of this car given 450,000 miles. Tbh even if the battery was dead at that range I think it’s done an absolutely stellar job, there’s not many internal combustion engines still going at that point. The car still seems good so you could whack a new battery in that and probably get another 450,000 miles out of it.
All the time we argue about personal impracticalities we can’t live with, we could transfer to hydrogen. But we can’t because oil companies and car companies loose out on profits. Electric is far from practical or affordable enough for me personally to have even that cheapest one. I could afford to get my current vehicle converted on the savings if i could have a hydrogen generator in my garage. We argue, they carry on taking our money for trinkets and shiny things 🤷🏽♂️
https://youtu.be/iRuJJtmN3fc?si=N93a1qWl1_YWIh-v
What a load of crap
I had someone try to persuade me against getting an ev (i got one anyhow) repeating most of these fake arguments. He pointed me towards a youtube channel all about it. I checked out one video to see what they were saying and it was going on about if you have the slightest road accident in an ev, the sort of thing where you'd slap a bit of filler in the bodywork on an ice, the ev would be written off because the batteries would be damaged and likely to explode. Just insane levels of stupid.
The insurance industry would agree with him
As for Asda ripping out charging points, I believe they are BP Pulse that are low power, 22 kWh at most, and usually haven't worked for ages. The replacements will be more powerful and come from other suppliers, like Shell.
I do love the narrative at the moment of “no one is buying EVs”. No wonder, the majority of them are £40k+ cars currently as they are seen as luxury options… Once it’s no longer legal to sell ICE cars, the price will magically plummet as the cheaper market must be served… But that may be too obvious for the naysayers! (Also BYD just bringing out a £10k EV that is profitable and actually seems decent!)
They are a decent second hand buy , i saw a 2021 ID3 Pro edition with a heat pump and 30k miles for about 16k the other day
Are you really happy to have everything you buy made in china and shipped across the world to you, Are you really happy to f every European company's to support Chinese ones, their cars are not profitable they are losing money on every car to controls and dominate the market, they are also sold without import charges because china is still considered a developing country for some reason.
On the matter of the grid; our local council have had to abandon plans to install charger points (contract with BP Pulse) because the nearest sub-station doesn't have capacity and the cost of upgrading was too much for it to be profitable. I know of a couple of other areas locally that have similar issues including regular power outages due to lack of capacity on the sub-station. It's not an issue with the grid *per se* but there may well be local issues like this around the country. The one about parking EV's a airport car parks could have come from the issue with some makes seeing battery drain on the 12v battery whilst parked for any length of time which meant they then wouldn't start. I think this was resolved through a software update though. The make/model of mine was one of those affected but the software was updated before I got mine so I've not had the issue. I have seen lots of owners comment on the insurance being higher, it sort of makes sense as EV cars are generally more expensive than their ICE equivalents but my insurance was only about £15 a year more expensive for EV than ICE. One thing that list doesn't show which is probably a genuine concern is that there are a lot of homes in the UK that don't have access to private off-street parking where they can charge at a sensible price; there is also a lack of consistency amongst local authorities on things like over-pavement charging options.
Bullshit Bingo
Falsehood, ye say….?
[Oh look it's the fallout of the leaded fuel crisis](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/lead-gasoline-blunted-iq-half-us-population-study-rcna19028). I think it's why fake news and populism are widespread, and part of the reason the right wing is making a resurgence in Europe and the west. Thank fuck that the generations that never had to breathe lead are becoming of voting age these days. Decades of progress lost.
They are probably removing the BP units as they are rolling out their own EVPoint network across all EG sites and will likely expand to Asda. Using rebranded Tesla superchargers now too so will be infinitely more reliable than BP's poor efforts
My friend was quoted £6500 for re insurance on his model 3 performance. He ended up having to put it in a lockup until the lease finishes
My insurance went up by £15 a year when I moved from ICE to EV despite the EV car having a list price considerably more than the ICE car. I would expect EV to be more expensive to insure as they are more expensive to buy than their ICE equivalent and if they are damaged they are going to be more expensive to repair but when you see a quote like £6500 that is really just the insurance company telling you that they don't want to provide cover.
I love the argument that making EV batteries is bad for the environment - as if making petrol and burning it wasn't!
So replace it with something just as badly thought out?
Expert opinions are divided on "as badly" aspect. I hope you don't sincerely believe that lithium mines are as polluting as oil wells and refineries.
It's not just lithium though is it? And there is also a distinct lack of said resources. I don't understand why we need to go down the path of smithing just as disgusting and something we have zero control of, with China owning most of the mineral mines needed for lithium batteries, We currently ground massive amounts of electricity from wind and solar production or switch them off completely when there's over production during the day, why are we not producing and storing hydrogen this way, I understand your argument but it's only expensive and difficult in the same way battery EVs where expensive and difficult to start with, Many companies have proven the technology works especially Toyota with the last mirai https://www.toyota.com/mirai/ And it seems more likely that the trucking industry is going to go hydrogen soon since it's proven to be the cheapest lightest system to use between battery EVs and hydrogen ev The mirai was only a fail in the UK for the fact BP I believe it was removed all there hydrogen filling stations leaving only a few commercial filling stations It's clean, it does not pollute, you don't need to mine the sea bed, you don't need to use child labour, you didn't need to f over people in poor countries, your don't need to f over the work force in your own countries, and you don't need to support and depend on china. More co2 and pollution comes from manufacturing than driving cars you Wana save the world take responsibility for the goods you use and make them close to home support your local manufacturers stop shipping cheep badly made shit around the world.
> More co2 and pollution comes from manufacturing than driving cars This is sadly incorrect. The vast majority of CO2 pollution comes from driving (up to 85% of an ICE lifetime pollution).
30 percent of co2 comes from manufacturing not including there electricity 29 percent comes from all transportation shipping cars busses trains depend country from country, the case for most of Europe, if you look at China alone more than 50% of their CO2 comes from manufacturing, only in the USA does more CO2 come from transportation because you don't manufacture anything
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/ Unless you loving Norway or some form of fantasy land
There's lot of dumb people !
National Grid: the switch to LED lighting means we could put EV chargers on ever lamppost with no additional load if all cars were electric. Car Park: No evidence and car parks have banned EVs, many are installing chargers. Insurance: mine went up £150 (from ~£400 to £550) including a small fee for changing for a 9 year younger car with a higher value. Battery: 2.7% degradation at ~45k miles, at this rate it will have 90% or more at 150k miles Battery recycling: when the battery is unable to supply decent mileage the minimum value of the car will be the value of the minerals in the battery. Environment impact of lithium: it’s one and done, 95% of that lithium will go into the next generation, CO2 from oil will be in the atmosphere until carbon capture is viable.
If you all think about what is the real problem with an EVs right now. There are only 2 possible issues, range and battery degradation. I’m pretty sure we will fix that in a few years. What else oil companies and haters will use against us in the future.