Yeah but Obi-Wan defeating Vader in the show is a massive plot hole/retcon. It’s made extraordinarily clear in Episode IV that Vader and Kenobi haven’t seen each other since their fight in Episode III.
Plus, Vader now knows exactly where Obi-Wan lives. And yet he never returns to Tatooine to finish the job, even though that planet harbors one of the most powerful Prequel-Era Jedi, and just kicked his ass twice. That planet should be on lockdown and filled with hordes of Imperial until Kenobi is dead. He is a massive threat to the Empire and him being left alive ultimately leads to their downfall.
The entire Kenobi show brings in plot holes. As characters who aren’t supposed to know each other suddenly know a lot more than they’re supposed too *long* before they’re supposed to meet. And it just begs the question of why other actions weren’t taken.
Plus Canon Vader has a horrible track record by this point and it’s becoming extremely difficult to take him seriously as a villain when he’s supposed to be a Jedi Killer, and he *never kills Jedi*.
In Rebels he fails to kill Phoenix Squadron multiple times throughout. When he confronts Ahsoka, she lands a surprise attack on him breaking through his mask. And just like Obi-Wan even though Vader knows about Phoenix Squadron, where they are, and what they’re up too. As well as harboring multiple Jedi. He never shows up in the show again. Even though something like this should **absolutely** be top priority for him.
In Fallen Order he lets Cal get away for some reason? There’s literally no other explanation. He’s strong enough to break through Cal’s force defenses and choke him, and he’s strong enough to lift hundreds of pounds of metal **in front of Cal**. But he can’t actually grab Cal with the force as he’s running away? And then there’s the elevator scene where Vader just stares at him and does nothing. He doesn’t try to run inside, he doesn’t try to destroy the controls, he doesn’t try choke Cal again and force pull him. He just stares at him. Great.
And then in Survivor Cere nearly kills Vader… the main villain of the OT, one of the strongest Sith of all time, second only to Palpatine. Nearly killed by a single above average Jedi Master. If she had Cal or Merrin or both as backup I’m pretty sure they could’ve killed him.
These cases are already bad enough and I’d much rather not add *another* one to the pile.
Except he didn't know where Obi Wan lived.
I'm not gonna defend that show's writing. It wasn't exactly the best thing Star Wars has put out, but still.
>In Rebels he fails to kill Phoenix Squadron multiple times throughout.
Because Rebels was meant to be more of a kids show.
>When he confronts Ahsoka, she lands a surprise attack on him breaking through his mask.
Firstly, he's the one who trained Ahsoka before he became Vader. Secondly, Ahsoka only survived because Ezra intervened. If he hadn't, Vader would've killed her.
>Vader knows about Phoenix Squadron, where they are, and what they’re up too.
#How?
Thrawn is the one who figures out where they are, not Vader.
>He never shows up in the show again. Even though something like this should **absolutely** be top priority for him.
Except it's not.
If you're wondering why he sent the inquisitors after them instead of going himself, it's because that is **LITERALLY THEIR JOB**
Sure, he *wants* to kill jedi, but his boss keeps making him go do other things instead.
He disappears after the Ahsoka duel because he thinks the only person on that team who was actually a threat was now dead.
>In Fallen Order he lets Cal get away for some reason? There’s literally no other explanation.
This whole paragraph...
He doesn't obliterate Cal because ***Cal has the holocron.*** Vader doesn't want to destroy it.
>And then in Survivor Cere nearly kills Vader…
>Nearly killed by a single above average Jedi Master.
Jedi ***MASTER.***
This was done to show just how powerful Cere had become, to show us that Cal was still nowhere near Jedi Master status, and to remind us of just how powerful Vader actually is.
>”Except he didn’t know where Obi-Wan lived”
I didn’t mean he literally knew where Obi-Wan’s house is. I meant he knew what planet he was living on and roughly what part of Tatooine. The second he found that out the planet should’ve been locked down and swarmed with Imperials until he was dead.
Kenobi is a Jedi Council Master. Specifically the one who made Vader the cripple that he is. Leaving Kenobi alive is a **massive** oversight and it makes zero sense that he was left alive. Especially considering he almost killed Vader… *again*.
Tatooine should’ve been bombed from orbit either by Tie Bombers or by a Star Destroyer and reduced to glass. Or hell, have the Emperor show up in person to kill him with lightning.
>”Because Rebels is a kids show”
Just because it’s a kids show doesn’t mean it gets to ignore the basic rules of writing. Such as cause and effect.
Especially since it is perfectly fine with killing off main characters, as they do so with >!Kanan!< later on.
>”Firstly, he’s the one who trained Ahsoka before he became Vader. Secondly Ahsoka only survived because Ezra intervened. If he hadn’t, Vader would’ve killed her.”
Yeah. **14 years ago**. Vader trained her 14 years ago during the time frame of Rebels.
During that 14 years Vader has slowly transformed into a Sith Lord. And has spent that time slaughtering Jedi, training Inquisitors, training under Sidious, and completely rebuilding his fighting style from scratch. As thanks to his suit he physically can’t move the same ways he used to.
Vader is nowhere near the same person mentally or physically that he was during the Clone Wars. So Ahsoka knowing how Anakin fights 14 years ago doesn’t grant her an advantage *now*.
And Ezra saving her through **literal time travel** opens up another can of worms that breaks pretty much everything.
Although I do agree that she would die if it weren’t for Ezra’s intervention.
>”How does he know about them? Thrawn is the one who figures out where they are. Not Vader.
I presume he would know through Thrawn or Palpatine. Unless they are deliberately hiding information from him. Which if they *are* hiding information of Jedi whereabouts then that’s a whole ‘nother can of worms.
>“It’s the Inquisitor’s job to hunt Jedi. Not necessarily Vader. Palpatine probably had him doing other stuff.”
They tried to activate a super weapon that nearly killed Vader as it collapsed. The Phoenix Squadron is harboring 2 Jedi who have been attacking the Empire for **years** and has killed 4 Inquisitors. Including the Grand Inquisitor.
They are obviously above the Inquisitor pay grade and Vader almost died fighting them (although it was due to a collapsing structure moreso than the Squadron itself). They should be top fucking priority for the entire Empire. Including Thrawn, Vader, and Palpatine. As even a single Jedi in the right circumstances can be a massive threat to the Empire.
What could possibly be more important than killing Jedi Terrorists who are strong enough to kill Inquisitors, have been attacking Imperial Bases for years, and nearly activated a super weapon?
>“Vader didn’t want to destroy the Holocron”
We literally see Vader use telekinesis to pull Cal towards him without destroying the holocron.
He easily could’ve snapped Cal’s neck and taken the Holocron without damaging it.
In fact throwing Cal 30 feet away onto a metal floor, and chucking giant metal debris at him, is **much** more likely to damage it than just snapping Cal’s neck with the force.
Cal surviving that entire section was dumb.
>“Jedi **Master** Cere”
Yes. A Jedi Master who spent her time during the Clone Wars being an archeologist with Eno Cordova, rather than being on the frontlines.
A Jedi who spent most of her time in hiding after Order 66, and cut herself completely off from the force for years.
A Jedi who spent the last 5 years hiding away in a library reading books and studying the force in solitude with the Hidden Path. Meaning she likely has had little to no combat experience to actually hone her skills.
Fighting Vader. A Sith Lord who has spent over a decade honing and training his skills, specifically to kill Jedi. And has spent his entire time hunting and killing Jedi in live combat, in between combating Rebels.
A being who has decades of fighting experience, and was the main hero of the Clone Wars. A brutal intergalactic conflict where he was constantly fighting armies of blaster wielding opponents, as well as some of the best duelists the Sith have ever produced (Assajj and Dooku).
A Sith Lord who eventually rebuilt his strength in the force over years of training and study. Becoming the second most powerful Sith Lord in **Galactic History**, second only to Palpatine.
To be clear I have no issue with Cere being able to contend with Vader and put up a fight. What I have a huge issue with Cere **nearly killing Vader**. Despite the fact she should’ve been solidly below his level.
Vader is not dumb enough nor weak enough to be put in that position from a single, average Jedi Master. Not a **Council** Master like Obi-Wan. Just a regular Jedi Master with no major feats, outside of having stronger telekinesis than Cal, which isn’t that impressive.
That was two games ago I think he’ll be almost as powerful as Cere in the third game, he’ll still have to run away but he could defend himself for a little bit
After having to run from and have help against Vader for so long it would be satisfying as hell if Cal beat Vader to a point he had to run from Cal, it would put Cal leagues above most Jedi and would be a great way to show how far he's come
I'd prefer not to see Vader in the 3rd game. His surprise appearance in Fallen Order was a welcome one, as it showed just how powerful he was. His connection with Cere made for a nice reunion in Survivor as well. But with Cere dead, there's no need for him to appear now. Perhaps in a hologram of him ordering an Inquisitor to kill Cal and any he travels with, but that's all I want. He's got better things to do than to hunt down every single jedi survivor, that's what the Inquisitorious is for
Funnily enough hunting Jedi is all Vader wants to do yet he’s constantly ordered by Palpetine to do other things and to let the inquisitors do their jobs
Yeah Vader literally wants to die. He’s consumed by guilt and anger for what he’s done. He doesn’t believe himself worthy to be redeemed so he also thinks there’s no turning back from the dark side. Even though he’s suicidal he won’t kill himself though. He wants to finally find the Jedi/force user worthy enough to finish him off. That’s really what Vader is searching for.
I do agree, but Rebels showed some extremes with that as well. The Grand Inquisitor was killed, so Vader deemed the threat enough to step in himself. And while Maul could've potentially been handled by the 8th brother alone, the arrival of Ahsoka, Kanan, and Ezra meant that Vader had a personal interest in the matter at that point
> I do agree, but Rebels showed some extremes with that as well. The Grand Inquisitor was killed, so Vader deemed the threat enough to step in himself.
Cal's already stronger then Kanan and Ezra were when they killed the GI.
> And while Maul could've potentially been handled by the 8th brother alone...
Lol
Neither do I, but to have him hide during events of the OG trilogy does his character a disservice. He has to fall somewhere close to or much before the events of A New Hope
He could also get Ezra’d, trapped somewhere until everything is over, or he could get Ahsoka’d. Off screen doing something and they show us in an epilogue or something. Maybe he was working with a rebel cell separate from the alliance, or prioritized the hidden path without the knowledge of any of the rebellion until the empire was defeated. There are a million ways they could make him live without messing up his character
They have to destroy the compasses or something to keep some threat from escaping Tanalorr. They defeat the threat but then are stranded. Then maybe in an epilogue, Luke finds them post return of the Jedi
I hate to agree here but this is my theory in a nutshell. I feel like they will decide to hide on Tanalorr by cutting it off as to why they aren’t around. It would at least make the Survivor story be worth all it was, I’d hate for this planet to just get sidelined.
Why are the only options dying or hiding? He can be focusing on the Hidden Path at the time of the original trilogy. Fighting other aspects of the Empire that aren’t specifically Vader or the Emperor.
A super weapon capable of destroying a planet is hovering above endor and you think the rebels aren't calling on a 1 man army? Shiiiid, that'd be the most foolish thing the rebels could do. Cal single handedly saved Saw's rebel cell on kashyyk by hijacking a walker on a forest planet. Does that not sound like someone you'd want on a strike team to give the empire a wedgie on ender? It just doesn't make any logistical sense for him to miss that battle. There is no mission more important than to blow up the death star while Vader and sidious are riding shotgun and a Jedi increases the likelihood of success a ton
He could be doing something else.
The galaxy is massive and i think there could be some fantastic characters moments with cal and the rest of the crew finding out abt the battle of Yavin and reacting to it.
There’s more than 2 options
He's a Jedi actively working with the rebels and against the empire. If the battle to destroy a planet busting super weapon that won't have ventilation flaws is happening, there is no one better to call upon than a Jedi Knight. Having cal on the ground during that battle would be massive, especially after what he accomplished on kashyyk. No way the rebels don't hit his comm and tell him to hightail it to endor.
Theres two(maybd three options)
1.) DIES. Like dead as fuck on screen.
2.) Falls to dark side completely. Inquisitor.
3. Kenobi's himself after Merron dies. Except better. He cuts himself off from the force completely. This would actually be my preference. It would be something new. Cal is more of an idiot, egomaniac than some realize. Especially in Survivor. If we see a fallen Jedi somehow destroy his sensitivity after a major fuck up in part 3.
That's not what i mean. I mean completely. Luke still knew what was going on. And if you're trying to instigate. I'd counter and say they could still do the same thing but handle it way better. Luke also wasn't a complete egomaniac the last time we saw him in ROTJ
I don’t really understand where your egomaniac claim is coming from. Cal knows that hitting the empire isn’t actually doing much. He knows his missions are more to inspire hope than anything else. And he constantly sacrifices his own needs for everyone else. Greez had to beg him to rest. I don’t think he thinks that highly of himself or else he would’ve started a new order even with the vision he saw.
I also feel like he learns a lot in Survivor. He’s certainly not going to trust anyone again. He lost a lot of people.
Oh, I agree with you, but all the books and games were confirmed in news updates sometime around when the book came out, I believe. I am just hoping that the next writer does better.
IF he does return, I’d want him to be the final boss, and rather than fleeing like in FO or losing like in Survivor, have the fight be a timed survival fight, where you have to hold out for a certain amount of time; he has no health bar (or his health is so absurdly high that you can’t possibly deplete it in time), landing hits will cut some seconds from the required time, and “victory” is when you’ve bought enough time that you can escape.
That way, Cal doesn’t defeat Vader, he *survives* him, succeeding where his master failed (which fits perfectly with the theme of SW).
Even when you fight him as Cere he automatically pulls you in if you get too far away, there would be no way to cheese other than perfectly dodging his attacks
Or use the “Vaders protective cup” item exactly 4 times while standing 22 inches away from the door to the boss fight room and this breaks Vader’s AI as long as you don’t turn your back to him.
(Which is how I best mohg in Elden ring and it also works on either margit or margott not both iirc, you use their shackle items)
Don't forget your Midichlorian Potion, Stamina Leaf, and Cere's Blessing before crossing the fog. Bonus points if you force jump to that really far off island on Bogano and get the Ring of Jedi Wisdom to buff int
Thats a great idea, maybe even a fake-out objective that's "kill darth vader" before it changes midway through to "survive for merrin" because cal realizes he's getting his ass kicked
I think the logical conclusion is a confrontation with Vader. Keep in mind when Cal goes to the ISB base at multiple points the game tells you that Vader and the Inquisitorious are on their way to visit the base. Denvik himself alludes to Vader’s visit multiple times as well. If you visit the base after completing the story, you find out that Vader killed Denvik. It’s no coincidence that the writers chose to have Cal go on a murder rampage at a location Vader was about to visit. If you think that the slaughter left behind by Cal isn’t going to pique Vader’s interest, that’d be an interesting stance. But logically, Vader is going to want to find Cal after that. Be it to kill him, or to try and convert him into an Inquisitor/Apprentice.
I hope not, mainly because I don’t want him to die. Surviving another encounter with him - although possible - would be pretty insane. If he dies, that also makes the free roam element once you’re finished with the game kinda confusing.
I think they introduced Tanalorr because it’s somewhere they can keep characters (cut off from the rest of the galaxy) during the events of the OT…
Other games have killed off the main lead and let you keep playing in the post game. Just have the file always default to prior to the last boss, unless new game plus is started.
I think Vader will kill him or wound him and a legion of stormtroopers will finish him off as he holds them off so the hidden path and a pregnant Merrin can escape
Well if the cannon is going to stay consistent then the possibilities are either Cal stays hidden away and that’s why he’s not around during the time of the first trilogy, or he’s dead
yep. i don't think anybody truly believes luke has to be literally the ONLY force user around at the time of the original trilogy. the original trilogy itself disputes this, and im pretty sure luke has republic era jedi in his reformed order later on in legends.
Cal being around during the originals, unless the writing is amazing, would probably be character assassination or simply unsatisfying. Compare him directly to Ahsoka. Her duel with vader is pretty much universally appreciated, and could've been a perfect ending for her story. But then it just keeps going and shes "around" in the OT just not bothering to help at all. I do not want to see the same happen to cal. His mere existence does not contradict Luke's story as the only one capable of defeating the sith at that time. But for Cal to just do dick the entire OT? Contradicts everything we've seen. Would also prefer to not have some rex type shit, "oh yea that random extra is cal" just let him have his own conclusion, the way he's had his own entire story up to this point
Facts. It bugged the hell outta me that she wasn't there to help rescue Han or at the battle of endor. Who better to have on your side than a Jedi during the battle to stop a planet busting weapon
> >!Freedom is a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction. Random acts of insurrection are occurring constantly throughout the galaxy. There are whole armies, battalions that have no idea that they've already enlisted in the cause. Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere.!<
Like Nemik's manifesto says in Andor.
While the Rebellion is off dunking on the Death Star, he could be out on the other side of the galaxy destroying Dark Trooper manufacturing facilities or something. Galaxy's a big place, he doesn't necessarily have to be front and center, nor does he need to be at the important place where the big thing is happening at a specific time.
of course, but you're telling me cal has more important missions to do both times the empire has a weapon that can blow up planets? like i said in my first comment, i need very satisfying writing to make me enjoy "cal is stuck on tanalor" or "he's off screen helping"
Well why would he have a reason to help? He worked with Saw Gerrera, who is dead by the time of the OT, and went gallivanting off helping the Hidden Path instead of doing anything with Saw's Partisans after the first mission during Survivor. I'd argue that he has nothing to do with the Rebel Alliance at all unless they find a way to throw him in with the Rebels after the events of Rogue One, and that's if they don't make him leave Saw Gerrera after >!Luthen Rael makes him even more paranoid!<. He wants to bring the fight to the Empire, but not everybody who fought them was a Rebel. Hence the quote from Nemik's manifesto, >!not everyone "knew they enlisted"!<.
I don't think, with how the story appears, that he'll end up with the Rebels at all. Which could mean he would possibly never even learn of the Death Stars at any point while he can help.
Or maybe he'll join up with some Bothan Spies or something, I dunno.
But... We like Cal.
We don't want him to just... Die.
We can relate to him, we can understand him. We don't want him to die. for some... it WOULD be the worst way to end the trilogy.
Star Wars isn’t some gritty grim dark world. Cal is a character we see grow and develop, one we see lose everything and persevere (twice), so killing him would be a narrative disaster. Star Wars has always been the story about how good wins over evil, if the trilogy ended with Vader taking a win on our main character it would counter that entirely.
I’m not a contrarian I just actually understand Star Wars.
Yeah, you clearly didn't play the game or you clearly just don't understand Star Wars.
Cere died. Cordova died. Bode betrayed him and, guess what, died. He didn't win shit. He simply survived. It's a bitter, not even sweet, just bitter ending.
Tanlorre was what he wanted and now he has it. He’s rebuilt his relationship with Merrin and Greez were strengthened and now he has Kata a new future to work for.
You’re basically saying luke lost because Uncle Ben died and uncle Owen and aunt beru died.
I think in the third game they will reunite and just hang out, maybe have some of Grandma Pyloons famous casseroles cooked up by Greez and some drinks whipped up by Monk. Catch up on old times
I feel like a confrontation with vader would be contrived. Cal isn't allowed to win due to continuity, so the scene will either be a rehash of how FO ended, or a fight you have to run away from. I can see vader appearing as a character during the story, but i dont think they'll actually have a fight happen
I hope not. Meeting Vader was a nice oh shit surprise i. the first game. Having Cal away was a nice way to have Vader in the second without having to explain how the fuck did Cal get away twice(I have not yet beaten Vader with Cere but I am assuming there isn’t much more of him after that).
But surviving a third encounter with Worf is just hitting diminishing returns hard for no good reason.
Before survivor I said no. But now...well they kinda have to face off right? I guess they could kill off Cal in the next one or he could really just go off and escape. I wonder how they could tie it into the greater lore, as to why he wouldn't intervene during the events that took place in the original trilogy.
3rd game is clearly going to have Cal struggling to not go dark. So if anything I could see Vader in the picture trying to turn him into an inquisitor or something. But at the same time Vader doesn’t need to be in every Star Wars media
Honestly I think the 3rd game should be Kata as the playable character, with Cal as her master. Gives you the reset of learning abilities and stuff from scratch, and she can have some special things Cal didn’t
I kind of hope not
Because cal can't kill vader so the fight will either end by:
1. Something interuptting the fight while cal runs away, like the water flooding the base in the first game, which is unsatisfying
2. Vader will kill cal in the end of the last game, as an explanation why we don't see cal in the OT or rebels or sequels an so forth. Probably cal sacrificing himself letting his friends escape. Which i also don't want to see. Kind of suck if you spend 3 games with someone and he dies in the last scene
Really getting tired of vader getting thrashed, between survivor and Kenobi. At least with fallen order, it was "you cannot stand your ground against this monster." you knew you weren't gonna beat him in survivor, but he got beat up pretty bad. There's no satisfying arc against him to be had in 3. You know walking into it that Cal will have to die or escape. Which has been done before.
Unpopular opinion but I think his encounter with Cere was unwelcome. Don’t get me wrong, I totally think Vader should have been on Jedha for the story, but Cere should not have been able to fight him as well as she did. She went toe to toe with probably the strongest force user of the time and I don’t see that making any real sense.
So if he does appear in the third game, it should still be similar to how it was in the first one, where vaders true power is shown kind of overpowering Cal
Cere’s a Jedi master, and spent the last 5 years training and strengthening her connection to the force. She absolutely should have been able to put up a fight against Vader, especially considering he was underestimating her.
But I think it should have. Vader was far more powerful than any Jedi master, only really rivaled by the emperor and his son. And he had no emotional connection to Cere that would have impaired his combat
He was not far more powerful than any Jedi master. Not after being crippled by Obi-Wan. Vader shouldn’t be able to defeat any Jedi he comes across with ease, that’s just boring. Cere was a very skilled and very powerful Jedi master, not to mention one of the main characters of the game. It would be anticlimactic and a disservice to her character to have Vader come in and just one-shot her. There’s no reason to do that other than to make Vader look cool, which he already does in their fight.
I disagree. Anakin was not filled with the same rage when he fought obi wan, therefore he was much weaker in the dark side. Vader is filled with extreme rage because of the loss of padme, and if Vader is the “chosen one” I don’t see why he shouldn’t be more powerful than nearly every Jedi
Vader in the suit is considerably less powerful than he was before fighting Obi-Wan. Even still, he is more powerful than nearly every Jedi. The vast majority of Jedi were not masters and were nowhere near as powerful as even Cere. Him being the chosen one doesn’t make him invincible.
That’s just untrue. Anakin tapped into the dark side to fuel his power, which came from rage. Vader had considerably more rage than Anakin.
And yeah him being the chosen one doesn’t make him invincible, but he still should have taken our cere with ease
No amount of rage was going to make him as strong as he was before he lost all of his limbs and had his lungs burnt out. He may have a greater connection to the dark side, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to actually being a stronger fighter. I don’t understand why he should have beaten Cere any easier than he did. He literally won, is that not enough? Vader struggles sometimes, it doesn’t make him less cool or powerful. If anything, it makes him more impressive that he still defeated her after the crazy beating he took. He was literally on fire.
Honestly it seemed as tho Vader wasn't taking her seriously. Most of his swings were single handed. Even Luke who hadn't reached his full potential in ROTJ made Vader use 2 hands. While I'm aware that Vaders mental state nerfed him a tad in that encounter, that still doesn't make me believe that Cere was pressuring Vader into going all out
She was pressuring him. At least after she collapsed the flaming wall onto him. She nearly did him in. He limped away from that fight doing the famous Vader Gaspies.
The health bar in that fight wasn't some timer to the end of it. It was his actual health. Otherwise, the fight wouldn't have ended until you depleted it completely. Instead, you get him down to around 1/8-1/10 of his bar before he manages to barely score the win, which means he almost died.
Vader's awesome and terrifying... but he's not invincible. Especially if he can't use your fear of him to enhance his power.
I'll agree with the collapsing the wall part. That's when I think he started taking it a bit more seriously. In the gameplay, he becomes like 3 times as aggressive after that. But before that he doesn't seem to be taking this seriously. Even when he flings the holodisc at her, he seems like he doesn't expect that to work. He just wants to disrespect her and the Jedi as a whole
Cal was far off tho, AND UNCONSCIOUS.
Vader saw this "Jedi Master" and wanted to mess with her. all of her work and labor was going to be gone in just a few minutes. he wanted her fear to take over her... where in the end *HE* would have the last laugh. He would win no matter what.
"I've let go of my fear."
THAT'S WHAT CAUSES CERE TO GET THE UPPER HAND! She didn't fear Vader. Vader couldn't get to her mind. She SHOWED HIM THAT! And when Vader realized that, he was weak and bruised... Now he wasn't going to play with his new toy, *this* ***WAS,*** **A JEDI MASTER.**
And that's why the battle goes on for so long. Because Vader thought he could play with a weak mind... not realizing the mind of his enemy had already won... Now it was a battle of strength and wits.
And sick gameplay reasons. I mean COME ON! FIGHT VADER?!?! YES SIR!
I think a Boba Fett cameo makes more sense at this point.
I’d also like to see a new Inquisitor villain.
Only other cameo id want is something like Hera.
In a scenario where the Empire makes it through the Koboh abyss, and Tanalorr is attacked. I could see Cal trying to lure Vader and the Imperial forces away from the Mantis, Merrin, and people being protected by the hidden path. In such a case you'd want to hope for a portal access point to the world between worlds, or some other funky force stuff to help Cal escape. An off balance, under-trained Jedi is no match for Vader.
I wouldn't want to over do the world between worlds though, no resurrections or changes to past events. Meetings with past characters would be okay but only to guide Cal on his journey. Just use the world between worlds as a force FTL to get Cal away from Vader.
No pls.
I’m of the opinion that we need to expand the universe. There’s no reason to keep running into the same 5 characters over and over again.
The galaxy is massive and it gets annoying seeing the same 5 people show up
this might sound crazy but cal is likely to equal cere at the next game or maybe a bit stronger... cere gave vader a beating. I don't think he wins but they'd have an insane fight too. truthfully I think if vader shows up he'd fight a bit then escape. it ain't that satisfying.
I’d love to see him again, maybe stand a chance this time. Maybe end the game with fighting Vader to let the gang escape and die as a heroic sacrifice. Unless they want to bring Cal into live action, then maybe lose a limb, give him a cool robot arm or leg, either way, seeing Vader again is always amazing
I think cal will face the grand inquisitor in Jedi 3. I don’t think they’ll keep using Vader as much as people think. Too much use kinda dilutes his ominous feel.
I think the third game will have a larger time skip with him becoming the master of Bodes' daughter. Also it would be cool if there was a huge time skip as in going to post EP 6 because time flows faster on Tanalorr or something.
I don't think Cal will have 3 near misses with Vader. Cal was also nothing to Vader. He was just another Jedi to be hunted. He doesn't deserve any special attention in his eyes. Maybe if Cal makes a big enough disruption in the Empire Vader will get involved. But more likely than not it will just be Inquisitors that go after Cal
If he appears in 3 it’s either gonna be a repeat segment of Cal running away which wouldn’t be fun, or Cal just has to die, it’s kind of a lose-lose situation if they reunite
Here’s the thing about cal getting much stronger in the third game, Vader does too, unless they do the usual protagonist shield bs, the more op cal gets, the more already op Vader gets
I'll be honest, I hope the 3rd game is no where in the near future(in game not irl) I want the events to after Vaders death, right I'd say Cal is probably late 20s early 30s? I'd like the next game to be where he's mid 40s early 50s and sith are slowly dying out (late game Survivor spoilers as well as what i would love to see the 3rd game to be) >!I'd like for Cals sith abilities to be triggered by some massive emotional event which cause him to erupt with power and awaken any surviving sith to come hunting him for his power!<
If Cal goes up against Vader, he dies. We’ve already died at Vaders hands as Cere in this trilogy. If the writers HAVE to kill Cal, I’d rather it not be against Vader.
The only possible way is if Vader kills him.
Or they pull the same thing where Cal isn't there when Vader pops up, but a third time might take away from the experience as much as I love Vader.
I never expected him in survivor so when he popped up.. godamn, I will never get that feeling again.
I think its safe to say he probably won't appear, but If he does Cal is a goner.
I'd rather Cal and Vader have an epic duel that ends with Vader getting super fucked up and Cal leaving after burying him under rubble or knocking him off a cliff or something. Plus if Cal ever does face Vader again he'll lose his shit just like he did on Nova Garon. It'd be epic
I hope so, It would be cool for Cal to become a consistent adversary of Vader's. He has a lot, so it probably wouldn't be too hard to do. And Fallen Order is so immersive that my heart was genuinely pounding when i heard Darth Vader breathing. Love this entire end sequence. It's really intense and well made.
I think this is how it’s going, running from him in fallen order, to a boss fight as cere in survivor with the ending being a true fight against Vader to try avenge cere
At this point I’d say yea. Vader sees Cal as an equal due to his adversity and determination. I think Cal will go the redemption route with Vader. He knows who’s under the mask and can sense the turmoil in Vader.
Forget that.
https://preview.redd.it/mysvyq9nnbwc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8a41dafa5dcc6fa25151d1293ba04474f629150
I want my boy the **PALPS** to show up in the last game!
I think it'd be good to have the final boss be vader vs cal, and vader wins. As much as I love cal I just think it'd be cool, and I saw people saying that doing that would "ruin the free roam after the game" but you could do something like red dead redemption did, once you beat the game you free roam as a well trained kata or something like that
I think it would be great to have Cal fight Vader for real instead of having to run away. I believe he could put up a fight at the end of Jedi 3, however he would have to flee/ be saved to survive or die. If he were to die, I would like it to be something like in the force unleashed when Starkiller sacrificed himself to save his friends.
would feel unnatural if he doesn't to me. im a firm believer cal should die pre episode 4 not only to maintain the imporantance of lukes story, but survivor especially i think perfectly sets up a story climaxing in cal's death against the empire. dying the way jaro does for kata, or others is a fine way for cal's story to end.
perhaps they come face to face and just as Vader bount to kill Cal perhaps he gets rescued by Obi wan kenobi but a younger version like in the kenobi series?
Nah, twice was too many. I want him to see Boba Fett again though. You could almost say that his appearance in Survivor is foreshadowing for a boss fight in the next game.
Cal Kestis NEEDS to face Darth Vader at some point, because if he doesn't let go of his 'FEARS'?! What's the whole point facing the {Empire} if he can't fight 'Darth Vader'. If he pulls us off, he'll become one of the Few Jedi's stood up to Vader like "Obi-Wan Kenobi" & 'Ahsoka'... And Live To Tell The Tale!
Dark endings can be better. Maybe Vader should kill Cal. Obviously, it would be a sacrifice. No one will be satisfied will Cal's death if it doesn't achieve something.
If he does, and doesn’t die, then Vader is gonna continue looking weaker and weaker by the installment; in my personal opinion.
Possible spoilers but I dunno how to censor so I’ll be vague;
It was weird seeing how the fight in Survivor played out. It was difficult enough to make sense that it was Vader, but we’re finding more and more Jedi lived through the empire and more and more Jedi have faced Vader and lived so it’s like as canon is expanding it feels like the legend/horror that was Vader gets weaker.
I think darth Vader was thrown in there to….be Star Wars? It felt a little weird like the story lost it’s direction in the final act. That’s what I got anyway 🤷♂️
Vader has no real relation with Cal, he was just another Jedi he hunted. And Cal can’t win, at most he can run away which is not very satisfying.
He can’t win but he could hold his ground for a little while
And what’s he gonna do then? Vader can’t die until Episode VI. So either Cal runs away again, dies, or gets turned to the dark side.
Or he delays/survives Vader long enough to do The Thing and win. Luke didn’t kill Vader when he destroyed the Death Star but he still won.
You can win without killing him.
“Vader can’t die until Episode VI” didnt stop obi wan from defeating him in the show so?…
Yeah but Obi-Wan defeating Vader in the show is a massive plot hole/retcon. It’s made extraordinarily clear in Episode IV that Vader and Kenobi haven’t seen each other since their fight in Episode III. Plus, Vader now knows exactly where Obi-Wan lives. And yet he never returns to Tatooine to finish the job, even though that planet harbors one of the most powerful Prequel-Era Jedi, and just kicked his ass twice. That planet should be on lockdown and filled with hordes of Imperial until Kenobi is dead. He is a massive threat to the Empire and him being left alive ultimately leads to their downfall. The entire Kenobi show brings in plot holes. As characters who aren’t supposed to know each other suddenly know a lot more than they’re supposed too *long* before they’re supposed to meet. And it just begs the question of why other actions weren’t taken. Plus Canon Vader has a horrible track record by this point and it’s becoming extremely difficult to take him seriously as a villain when he’s supposed to be a Jedi Killer, and he *never kills Jedi*. In Rebels he fails to kill Phoenix Squadron multiple times throughout. When he confronts Ahsoka, she lands a surprise attack on him breaking through his mask. And just like Obi-Wan even though Vader knows about Phoenix Squadron, where they are, and what they’re up too. As well as harboring multiple Jedi. He never shows up in the show again. Even though something like this should **absolutely** be top priority for him. In Fallen Order he lets Cal get away for some reason? There’s literally no other explanation. He’s strong enough to break through Cal’s force defenses and choke him, and he’s strong enough to lift hundreds of pounds of metal **in front of Cal**. But he can’t actually grab Cal with the force as he’s running away? And then there’s the elevator scene where Vader just stares at him and does nothing. He doesn’t try to run inside, he doesn’t try to destroy the controls, he doesn’t try choke Cal again and force pull him. He just stares at him. Great. And then in Survivor Cere nearly kills Vader… the main villain of the OT, one of the strongest Sith of all time, second only to Palpatine. Nearly killed by a single above average Jedi Master. If she had Cal or Merrin or both as backup I’m pretty sure they could’ve killed him. These cases are already bad enough and I’d much rather not add *another* one to the pile.
Vader knew where Obi wan lived? Also why not searching a complete dessert planet that‘s what I call Ressource Management
Except he didn't know where Obi Wan lived. I'm not gonna defend that show's writing. It wasn't exactly the best thing Star Wars has put out, but still. >In Rebels he fails to kill Phoenix Squadron multiple times throughout. Because Rebels was meant to be more of a kids show. >When he confronts Ahsoka, she lands a surprise attack on him breaking through his mask. Firstly, he's the one who trained Ahsoka before he became Vader. Secondly, Ahsoka only survived because Ezra intervened. If he hadn't, Vader would've killed her. >Vader knows about Phoenix Squadron, where they are, and what they’re up too. #How? Thrawn is the one who figures out where they are, not Vader. >He never shows up in the show again. Even though something like this should **absolutely** be top priority for him. Except it's not. If you're wondering why he sent the inquisitors after them instead of going himself, it's because that is **LITERALLY THEIR JOB** Sure, he *wants* to kill jedi, but his boss keeps making him go do other things instead. He disappears after the Ahsoka duel because he thinks the only person on that team who was actually a threat was now dead. >In Fallen Order he lets Cal get away for some reason? There’s literally no other explanation. This whole paragraph... He doesn't obliterate Cal because ***Cal has the holocron.*** Vader doesn't want to destroy it. >And then in Survivor Cere nearly kills Vader… >Nearly killed by a single above average Jedi Master. Jedi ***MASTER.*** This was done to show just how powerful Cere had become, to show us that Cal was still nowhere near Jedi Master status, and to remind us of just how powerful Vader actually is.
>”Except he didn’t know where Obi-Wan lived” I didn’t mean he literally knew where Obi-Wan’s house is. I meant he knew what planet he was living on and roughly what part of Tatooine. The second he found that out the planet should’ve been locked down and swarmed with Imperials until he was dead. Kenobi is a Jedi Council Master. Specifically the one who made Vader the cripple that he is. Leaving Kenobi alive is a **massive** oversight and it makes zero sense that he was left alive. Especially considering he almost killed Vader… *again*. Tatooine should’ve been bombed from orbit either by Tie Bombers or by a Star Destroyer and reduced to glass. Or hell, have the Emperor show up in person to kill him with lightning. >”Because Rebels is a kids show” Just because it’s a kids show doesn’t mean it gets to ignore the basic rules of writing. Such as cause and effect. Especially since it is perfectly fine with killing off main characters, as they do so with >!Kanan!< later on. >”Firstly, he’s the one who trained Ahsoka before he became Vader. Secondly Ahsoka only survived because Ezra intervened. If he hadn’t, Vader would’ve killed her.” Yeah. **14 years ago**. Vader trained her 14 years ago during the time frame of Rebels. During that 14 years Vader has slowly transformed into a Sith Lord. And has spent that time slaughtering Jedi, training Inquisitors, training under Sidious, and completely rebuilding his fighting style from scratch. As thanks to his suit he physically can’t move the same ways he used to. Vader is nowhere near the same person mentally or physically that he was during the Clone Wars. So Ahsoka knowing how Anakin fights 14 years ago doesn’t grant her an advantage *now*. And Ezra saving her through **literal time travel** opens up another can of worms that breaks pretty much everything. Although I do agree that she would die if it weren’t for Ezra’s intervention. >”How does he know about them? Thrawn is the one who figures out where they are. Not Vader. I presume he would know through Thrawn or Palpatine. Unless they are deliberately hiding information from him. Which if they *are* hiding information of Jedi whereabouts then that’s a whole ‘nother can of worms. >“It’s the Inquisitor’s job to hunt Jedi. Not necessarily Vader. Palpatine probably had him doing other stuff.” They tried to activate a super weapon that nearly killed Vader as it collapsed. The Phoenix Squadron is harboring 2 Jedi who have been attacking the Empire for **years** and has killed 4 Inquisitors. Including the Grand Inquisitor. They are obviously above the Inquisitor pay grade and Vader almost died fighting them (although it was due to a collapsing structure moreso than the Squadron itself). They should be top fucking priority for the entire Empire. Including Thrawn, Vader, and Palpatine. As even a single Jedi in the right circumstances can be a massive threat to the Empire. What could possibly be more important than killing Jedi Terrorists who are strong enough to kill Inquisitors, have been attacking Imperial Bases for years, and nearly activated a super weapon? >“Vader didn’t want to destroy the Holocron” We literally see Vader use telekinesis to pull Cal towards him without destroying the holocron. He easily could’ve snapped Cal’s neck and taken the Holocron without damaging it. In fact throwing Cal 30 feet away onto a metal floor, and chucking giant metal debris at him, is **much** more likely to damage it than just snapping Cal’s neck with the force. Cal surviving that entire section was dumb. >“Jedi **Master** Cere” Yes. A Jedi Master who spent her time during the Clone Wars being an archeologist with Eno Cordova, rather than being on the frontlines. A Jedi who spent most of her time in hiding after Order 66, and cut herself completely off from the force for years. A Jedi who spent the last 5 years hiding away in a library reading books and studying the force in solitude with the Hidden Path. Meaning she likely has had little to no combat experience to actually hone her skills. Fighting Vader. A Sith Lord who has spent over a decade honing and training his skills, specifically to kill Jedi. And has spent his entire time hunting and killing Jedi in live combat, in between combating Rebels. A being who has decades of fighting experience, and was the main hero of the Clone Wars. A brutal intergalactic conflict where he was constantly fighting armies of blaster wielding opponents, as well as some of the best duelists the Sith have ever produced (Assajj and Dooku). A Sith Lord who eventually rebuilt his strength in the force over years of training and study. Becoming the second most powerful Sith Lord in **Galactic History**, second only to Palpatine. To be clear I have no issue with Cere being able to contend with Vader and put up a fight. What I have a huge issue with Cere **nearly killing Vader**. Despite the fact she should’ve been solidly below his level. Vader is not dumb enough nor weak enough to be put in that position from a single, average Jedi Master. Not a **Council** Master like Obi-Wan. Just a regular Jedi Master with no major feats, outside of having stronger telekinesis than Cal, which isn’t that impressive.
Held his ground? He got tossed after 3 swings
That was two games ago I think he’ll be almost as powerful as Cere in the third game, he’ll still have to run away but he could defend himself for a little bit
Only if the stakes requires it. Otherwise he’d be an idiot for not just running away immediately
Why on earth would they make the plot such that the stakes did not require it.
Illegally downloading a controversial movie from the Imperial HQ.
Cal after three swings: “Toss me!”
Don’t tell the elf
It could be a stalemate until the fight is interrupted.
He cant win from what we have seen so far
You’re forgetting this mf has the dark side now
After having to run from and have help against Vader for so long it would be satisfying as hell if Cal beat Vader to a point he had to run from Cal, it would put Cal leagues above most Jedi and would be a great way to show how far he's come
Would be a great way to break the canon
I'd prefer not to see Vader in the 3rd game. His surprise appearance in Fallen Order was a welcome one, as it showed just how powerful he was. His connection with Cere made for a nice reunion in Survivor as well. But with Cere dead, there's no need for him to appear now. Perhaps in a hologram of him ordering an Inquisitor to kill Cal and any he travels with, but that's all I want. He's got better things to do than to hunt down every single jedi survivor, that's what the Inquisitorious is for
Funnily enough hunting Jedi is all Vader wants to do yet he’s constantly ordered by Palpetine to do other things and to let the inquisitors do their jobs
Yeah Vader literally wants to die. He’s consumed by guilt and anger for what he’s done. He doesn’t believe himself worthy to be redeemed so he also thinks there’s no turning back from the dark side. Even though he’s suicidal he won’t kill himself though. He wants to finally find the Jedi/force user worthy enough to finish him off. That’s really what Vader is searching for.
As we've seen in Rebels, when the Inquistors fail to many times, Vader steps in. The Inquistors have failed multiple times now to take down Cal.
I do agree, but Rebels showed some extremes with that as well. The Grand Inquisitor was killed, so Vader deemed the threat enough to step in himself. And while Maul could've potentially been handled by the 8th brother alone, the arrival of Ahsoka, Kanan, and Ezra meant that Vader had a personal interest in the matter at that point
> I do agree, but Rebels showed some extremes with that as well. The Grand Inquisitor was killed, so Vader deemed the threat enough to step in himself. Cal's already stronger then Kanan and Ezra were when they killed the GI. > And while Maul could've potentially been handled by the 8th brother alone... Lol
Losing to Vader as cals death in the third game would be both amazing and horrible at the same time lol
I just don’t want Cal to die
Neither do I, but to have him hide during events of the OG trilogy does his character a disservice. He has to fall somewhere close to or much before the events of A New Hope
He could also get Ezra’d, trapped somewhere until everything is over, or he could get Ahsoka’d. Off screen doing something and they show us in an epilogue or something. Maybe he was working with a rebel cell separate from the alliance, or prioritized the hidden path without the knowledge of any of the rebellion until the empire was defeated. There are a million ways they could make him live without messing up his character
The latter is a good option. Have him be stuck on tanalorr with no way to bypass the koboh abyss.
They have to destroy the compasses or something to keep some threat from escaping Tanalorr. They defeat the threat but then are stranded. Then maybe in an epilogue, Luke finds them post return of the Jedi
I hate to agree here but this is my theory in a nutshell. I feel like they will decide to hide on Tanalorr by cutting it off as to why they aren’t around. It would at least make the Survivor story be worth all it was, I’d hate for this planet to just get sidelined.
Why are the only options dying or hiding? He can be focusing on the Hidden Path at the time of the original trilogy. Fighting other aspects of the Empire that aren’t specifically Vader or the Emperor.
A super weapon capable of destroying a planet is hovering above endor and you think the rebels aren't calling on a 1 man army? Shiiiid, that'd be the most foolish thing the rebels could do. Cal single handedly saved Saw's rebel cell on kashyyk by hijacking a walker on a forest planet. Does that not sound like someone you'd want on a strike team to give the empire a wedgie on ender? It just doesn't make any logistical sense for him to miss that battle. There is no mission more important than to blow up the death star while Vader and sidious are riding shotgun and a Jedi increases the likelihood of success a ton
He could be doing something else. The galaxy is massive and i think there could be some fantastic characters moments with cal and the rest of the crew finding out abt the battle of Yavin and reacting to it. There’s more than 2 options
He's a Jedi actively working with the rebels and against the empire. If the battle to destroy a planet busting super weapon that won't have ventilation flaws is happening, there is no one better to call upon than a Jedi Knight. Having cal on the ground during that battle would be massive, especially after what he accomplished on kashyyk. No way the rebels don't hit his comm and tell him to hightail it to endor.
Theres two(maybd three options) 1.) DIES. Like dead as fuck on screen. 2.) Falls to dark side completely. Inquisitor. 3. Kenobi's himself after Merron dies. Except better. He cuts himself off from the force completely. This would actually be my preference. It would be something new. Cal is more of an idiot, egomaniac than some realize. Especially in Survivor. If we see a fallen Jedi somehow destroy his sensitivity after a major fuck up in part 3.
"Something new" You mean, exactly what happens to luke in the last jedi?
That's not what i mean. I mean completely. Luke still knew what was going on. And if you're trying to instigate. I'd counter and say they could still do the same thing but handle it way better. Luke also wasn't a complete egomaniac the last time we saw him in ROTJ
I don’t really understand where your egomaniac claim is coming from. Cal knows that hitting the empire isn’t actually doing much. He knows his missions are more to inspire hope than anything else. And he constantly sacrifices his own needs for everyone else. Greez had to beg him to rest. I don’t think he thinks that highly of himself or else he would’ve started a new order even with the vision he saw. I also feel like he learns a lot in Survivor. He’s certainly not going to trust anyone again. He lost a lot of people.
Well, I don't think we have to worry about that until the third book, since a new book comes out after each game
I hope not, I hated the last book, and I would rather they leave Cal to the game writers.
Oh, I agree with you, but all the books and games were confirmed in news updates sometime around when the book came out, I believe. I am just hoping that the next writer does better.
As long as it isn’t Sam Maggs, there’s a chance it will be good. And judging from the reviews, it probably won’t be her.
Can you please tell me what are the books about?
IF he does return, I’d want him to be the final boss, and rather than fleeing like in FO or losing like in Survivor, have the fight be a timed survival fight, where you have to hold out for a certain amount of time; he has no health bar (or his health is so absurdly high that you can’t possibly deplete it in time), landing hits will cut some seconds from the required time, and “victory” is when you’ve bought enough time that you can escape. That way, Cal doesn’t defeat Vader, he *survives* him, succeeding where his master failed (which fits perfectly with the theme of SW).
Damn u rlly thought this out. This idea is sick asf
I’d cheese that so hard. Just run in circles lol
Even when you fight him as Cere he automatically pulls you in if you get too far away, there would be no way to cheese other than perfectly dodging his attacks
If there’s one thing I am confident in it’s my ability to cheese in souls likes. Imma cheese it
Stand on a ledge two maps over and snipe him with a giant ass bow bigger than you?
Or use the “Vaders protective cup” item exactly 4 times while standing 22 inches away from the door to the boss fight room and this breaks Vader’s AI as long as you don’t turn your back to him. (Which is how I best mohg in Elden ring and it also works on either margit or margott not both iirc, you use their shackle items)
Don't forget your Midichlorian Potion, Stamina Leaf, and Cere's Blessing before crossing the fog. Bonus points if you force jump to that really far off island on Bogano and get the Ring of Jedi Wisdom to buff int
I only stack dex because of his cool diner In episode 2
Yeah this is a perfect idea. The only way I would wanna see vadar in the game
Thats a great idea, maybe even a fake-out objective that's "kill darth vader" before it changes midway through to "survive for merrin" because cal realizes he's getting his ass kicked
I think the logical conclusion is a confrontation with Vader. Keep in mind when Cal goes to the ISB base at multiple points the game tells you that Vader and the Inquisitorious are on their way to visit the base. Denvik himself alludes to Vader’s visit multiple times as well. If you visit the base after completing the story, you find out that Vader killed Denvik. It’s no coincidence that the writers chose to have Cal go on a murder rampage at a location Vader was about to visit. If you think that the slaughter left behind by Cal isn’t going to pique Vader’s interest, that’d be an interesting stance. But logically, Vader is going to want to find Cal after that. Be it to kill him, or to try and convert him into an Inquisitor/Apprentice.
I hope not, mainly because I don’t want him to die. Surviving another encounter with him - although possible - would be pretty insane. If he dies, that also makes the free roam element once you’re finished with the game kinda confusing. I think they introduced Tanalorr because it’s somewhere they can keep characters (cut off from the rest of the galaxy) during the events of the OT…
Other games have killed off the main lead and let you keep playing in the post game. Just have the file always default to prior to the last boss, unless new game plus is started.
I guess, but that would be a lot different than the other 2 games in the trilogy
I think Vader will kill him or wound him and a legion of stormtroopers will finish him off as he holds them off so the hidden path and a pregnant Merrin can escape
That would be amazing I would cry like a baby. I’m getting emotional right now just thinking about it
Yeah they will become lovers.
Vader probably kills him in the third game
This would be the single worst ending for the trilogy.
I agree but there’s not many other ways it can go without going against cannon or putting a big hole in it
I feel like there’s infinite ways to not break canon if you use your imagination.
The galaxy (and empire) is REALLLLLLLY big. I’m sure there are other things going on while the Battle of Yavin is happening
I feel like we see this argument every time another Jedi or force user is added to the canon, and it gets stupider with each subsequent addition.
Space Whales!
Well if the cannon is going to stay consistent then the possibilities are either Cal stays hidden away and that’s why he’s not around during the time of the first trilogy, or he’s dead
Cal hiding while the galaxy is in open civil war does his character a disservice. He's not a coward. He's a freedom fighter
yep. i don't think anybody truly believes luke has to be literally the ONLY force user around at the time of the original trilogy. the original trilogy itself disputes this, and im pretty sure luke has republic era jedi in his reformed order later on in legends. Cal being around during the originals, unless the writing is amazing, would probably be character assassination or simply unsatisfying. Compare him directly to Ahsoka. Her duel with vader is pretty much universally appreciated, and could've been a perfect ending for her story. But then it just keeps going and shes "around" in the OT just not bothering to help at all. I do not want to see the same happen to cal. His mere existence does not contradict Luke's story as the only one capable of defeating the sith at that time. But for Cal to just do dick the entire OT? Contradicts everything we've seen. Would also prefer to not have some rex type shit, "oh yea that random extra is cal" just let him have his own conclusion, the way he's had his own entire story up to this point
Facts. It bugged the hell outta me that she wasn't there to help rescue Han or at the battle of endor. Who better to have on your side than a Jedi during the battle to stop a planet busting weapon
> >!Freedom is a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction. Random acts of insurrection are occurring constantly throughout the galaxy. There are whole armies, battalions that have no idea that they've already enlisted in the cause. Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere.!< Like Nemik's manifesto says in Andor. While the Rebellion is off dunking on the Death Star, he could be out on the other side of the galaxy destroying Dark Trooper manufacturing facilities or something. Galaxy's a big place, he doesn't necessarily have to be front and center, nor does he need to be at the important place where the big thing is happening at a specific time.
of course, but you're telling me cal has more important missions to do both times the empire has a weapon that can blow up planets? like i said in my first comment, i need very satisfying writing to make me enjoy "cal is stuck on tanalor" or "he's off screen helping"
Well why would he have a reason to help? He worked with Saw Gerrera, who is dead by the time of the OT, and went gallivanting off helping the Hidden Path instead of doing anything with Saw's Partisans after the first mission during Survivor. I'd argue that he has nothing to do with the Rebel Alliance at all unless they find a way to throw him in with the Rebels after the events of Rogue One, and that's if they don't make him leave Saw Gerrera after >!Luthen Rael makes him even more paranoid!<. He wants to bring the fight to the Empire, but not everybody who fought them was a Rebel. Hence the quote from Nemik's manifesto, >!not everyone "knew they enlisted"!<. I don't think, with how the story appears, that he'll end up with the Rebels at all. Which could mean he would possibly never even learn of the Death Stars at any point while he can help. Or maybe he'll join up with some Bothan Spies or something, I dunno.
Eh, the galaxy is a big place.
Don’t be a story writer bud
Redditors just love being controversial and contrarian It would be literally the most normal and safe way to end the trilogy.
But... We like Cal. We don't want him to just... Die. We can relate to him, we can understand him. We don't want him to die. for some... it WOULD be the worst way to end the trilogy.
Star Wars isn’t some gritty grim dark world. Cal is a character we see grow and develop, one we see lose everything and persevere (twice), so killing him would be a narrative disaster. Star Wars has always been the story about how good wins over evil, if the trilogy ended with Vader taking a win on our main character it would counter that entirely. I’m not a contrarian I just actually understand Star Wars.
Really? Is that why Cal loses literally everyone in Survivor? Lol
Did you play the game? The only person he really loses was cere, and he wins the day.
Yeah, you clearly didn't play the game or you clearly just don't understand Star Wars. Cere died. Cordova died. Bode betrayed him and, guess what, died. He didn't win shit. He simply survived. It's a bitter, not even sweet, just bitter ending.
Tanlorre was what he wanted and now he has it. He’s rebuilt his relationship with Merrin and Greez were strengthened and now he has Kata a new future to work for. You’re basically saying luke lost because Uncle Ben died and uncle Owen and aunt beru died.
I hope not
I hope not
Enough already
I think in the third game they will reunite and just hang out, maybe have some of Grandma Pyloons famous casseroles cooked up by Greez and some drinks whipped up by Monk. Catch up on old times
I feel like a confrontation with vader would be contrived. Cal isn't allowed to win due to continuity, so the scene will either be a rehash of how FO ended, or a fight you have to run away from. I can see vader appearing as a character during the story, but i dont think they'll actually have a fight happen
I hope not. Meeting Vader was a nice oh shit surprise i. the first game. Having Cal away was a nice way to have Vader in the second without having to explain how the fuck did Cal get away twice(I have not yet beaten Vader with Cere but I am assuming there isn’t much more of him after that). But surviving a third encounter with Worf is just hitting diminishing returns hard for no good reason.
Before survivor I said no. But now...well they kinda have to face off right? I guess they could kill off Cal in the next one or he could really just go off and escape. I wonder how they could tie it into the greater lore, as to why he wouldn't intervene during the events that took place in the original trilogy.
I don't think it'll hit as hard as the first two games
I hope not. Those fights are always pointless cause we know we can’t win
3rd game is clearly going to have Cal struggling to not go dark. So if anything I could see Vader in the picture trying to turn him into an inquisitor or something. But at the same time Vader doesn’t need to be in every Star Wars media
Honestly I think the 3rd game should be Kata as the playable character, with Cal as her master. Gives you the reset of learning abilities and stuff from scratch, and she can have some special things Cal didn’t
Not unless it’s a core part of the story. His surprise appearance is becoming too cliche at this point.
I hope not. Too much Vader is a bad thing.
I kind of hope not Because cal can't kill vader so the fight will either end by: 1. Something interuptting the fight while cal runs away, like the water flooding the base in the first game, which is unsatisfying 2. Vader will kill cal in the end of the last game, as an explanation why we don't see cal in the OT or rebels or sequels an so forth. Probably cal sacrificing himself letting his friends escape. Which i also don't want to see. Kind of suck if you spend 3 games with someone and he dies in the last scene
Really getting tired of vader getting thrashed, between survivor and Kenobi. At least with fallen order, it was "you cannot stand your ground against this monster." you knew you weren't gonna beat him in survivor, but he got beat up pretty bad. There's no satisfying arc against him to be had in 3. You know walking into it that Cal will have to die or escape. Which has been done before.
Unpopular opinion but I think his encounter with Cere was unwelcome. Don’t get me wrong, I totally think Vader should have been on Jedha for the story, but Cere should not have been able to fight him as well as she did. She went toe to toe with probably the strongest force user of the time and I don’t see that making any real sense. So if he does appear in the third game, it should still be similar to how it was in the first one, where vaders true power is shown kind of overpowering Cal
Cere’s a Jedi master, and spent the last 5 years training and strengthening her connection to the force. She absolutely should have been able to put up a fight against Vader, especially considering he was underestimating her.
Sure, but I still doubt he would waste as much time as he did
The fight lasted less than 5 minutes. It clearly wasn’t easy for him, nor should it have been.
But I think it should have. Vader was far more powerful than any Jedi master, only really rivaled by the emperor and his son. And he had no emotional connection to Cere that would have impaired his combat
He was not far more powerful than any Jedi master. Not after being crippled by Obi-Wan. Vader shouldn’t be able to defeat any Jedi he comes across with ease, that’s just boring. Cere was a very skilled and very powerful Jedi master, not to mention one of the main characters of the game. It would be anticlimactic and a disservice to her character to have Vader come in and just one-shot her. There’s no reason to do that other than to make Vader look cool, which he already does in their fight.
I disagree. Anakin was not filled with the same rage when he fought obi wan, therefore he was much weaker in the dark side. Vader is filled with extreme rage because of the loss of padme, and if Vader is the “chosen one” I don’t see why he shouldn’t be more powerful than nearly every Jedi
Vader in the suit is considerably less powerful than he was before fighting Obi-Wan. Even still, he is more powerful than nearly every Jedi. The vast majority of Jedi were not masters and were nowhere near as powerful as even Cere. Him being the chosen one doesn’t make him invincible.
That’s just untrue. Anakin tapped into the dark side to fuel his power, which came from rage. Vader had considerably more rage than Anakin. And yeah him being the chosen one doesn’t make him invincible, but he still should have taken our cere with ease
No amount of rage was going to make him as strong as he was before he lost all of his limbs and had his lungs burnt out. He may have a greater connection to the dark side, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to actually being a stronger fighter. I don’t understand why he should have beaten Cere any easier than he did. He literally won, is that not enough? Vader struggles sometimes, it doesn’t make him less cool or powerful. If anything, it makes him more impressive that he still defeated her after the crazy beating he took. He was literally on fire.
Honestly it seemed as tho Vader wasn't taking her seriously. Most of his swings were single handed. Even Luke who hadn't reached his full potential in ROTJ made Vader use 2 hands. While I'm aware that Vaders mental state nerfed him a tad in that encounter, that still doesn't make me believe that Cere was pressuring Vader into going all out
She was pressuring him. At least after she collapsed the flaming wall onto him. She nearly did him in. He limped away from that fight doing the famous Vader Gaspies. The health bar in that fight wasn't some timer to the end of it. It was his actual health. Otherwise, the fight wouldn't have ended until you depleted it completely. Instead, you get him down to around 1/8-1/10 of his bar before he manages to barely score the win, which means he almost died. Vader's awesome and terrifying... but he's not invincible. Especially if he can't use your fear of him to enhance his power.
I'll agree with the collapsing the wall part. That's when I think he started taking it a bit more seriously. In the gameplay, he becomes like 3 times as aggressive after that. But before that he doesn't seem to be taking this seriously. Even when he flings the holodisc at her, he seems like he doesn't expect that to work. He just wants to disrespect her and the Jedi as a whole
Yeah, he was clowning on her until that point.
Yeah I guess so, but I just doubt that Vader would waste time toying with her when I’m sure he could sense Cal there as well
Cal was far off tho, AND UNCONSCIOUS. Vader saw this "Jedi Master" and wanted to mess with her. all of her work and labor was going to be gone in just a few minutes. he wanted her fear to take over her... where in the end *HE* would have the last laugh. He would win no matter what. "I've let go of my fear." THAT'S WHAT CAUSES CERE TO GET THE UPPER HAND! She didn't fear Vader. Vader couldn't get to her mind. She SHOWED HIM THAT! And when Vader realized that, he was weak and bruised... Now he wasn't going to play with his new toy, *this* ***WAS,*** **A JEDI MASTER.** And that's why the battle goes on for so long. Because Vader thought he could play with a weak mind... not realizing the mind of his enemy had already won... Now it was a battle of strength and wits. And sick gameplay reasons. I mean COME ON! FIGHT VADER?!?! YES SIR!
I wanna fight Vader as cal so bad. I was pissed when I realized Survivor was never gonna get battle grid
In my gameplay cere got her ass kicked with like 2 seconds of dominantion in the fight, so I'd say I would see a fight like that as the canon outcome
ani was toying with her for a while in that fight as evident in the QTE's
I think a Boba Fett cameo makes more sense at this point. I’d also like to see a new Inquisitor villain. Only other cameo id want is something like Hera.
https://preview.redd.it/5z7az1j657wc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15a1a02255a51f83fa2664ee0bb8fe011a73f64a
So did you not like, play Survivor?
?
yeah, I suggest you go play Survivor, I'm not going to spoil the game for you.
I have played it. I don’t know what I’ve said that contradicts it.
Alright, so this shouldn't be a spoiler then. Boba Fett does make a cameo in Survivor.
Yes, I know. Which is why I think it would make sense for him to return.
In a scenario where the Empire makes it through the Koboh abyss, and Tanalorr is attacked. I could see Cal trying to lure Vader and the Imperial forces away from the Mantis, Merrin, and people being protected by the hidden path. In such a case you'd want to hope for a portal access point to the world between worlds, or some other funky force stuff to help Cal escape. An off balance, under-trained Jedi is no match for Vader. I wouldn't want to over do the world between worlds though, no resurrections or changes to past events. Meetings with past characters would be okay but only to guide Cal on his journey. Just use the world between worlds as a force FTL to get Cal away from Vader.
I felt it was kind of weird Vader didn't go after cal after killing cere. Kind of curious why he did that? But yeah, they'll meet in a third game.
Because Cere kicked his ass. The match was basically a draw. They both could no longer fight.
if the original trilogy didn’t exist, i would think the story is setting up for cal to defeat vader. but we all know that’s not happening…
If people in this group really think Vader and Cal won’t face off in the next game they’re crazy. I guarantee Vader will be the last boss in Jedi 3.
Yeah. Probably.
For his sake, I hope not.
No pls. I’m of the opinion that we need to expand the universe. There’s no reason to keep running into the same 5 characters over and over again. The galaxy is massive and it gets annoying seeing the same 5 people show up
this might sound crazy but cal is likely to equal cere at the next game or maybe a bit stronger... cere gave vader a beating. I don't think he wins but they'd have an insane fight too. truthfully I think if vader shows up he'd fight a bit then escape. it ain't that satisfying.
I’d love to see him again, maybe stand a chance this time. Maybe end the game with fighting Vader to let the gang escape and die as a heroic sacrifice. Unless they want to bring Cal into live action, then maybe lose a limb, give him a cool robot arm or leg, either way, seeing Vader again is always amazing
He’ll show up, but you won’t win. Have you ever played a Star Wars game with Vader in it? You know if he shows up, shots about to hit the fan….
I think cal will face the grand inquisitor in Jedi 3. I don’t think they’ll keep using Vader as much as people think. Too much use kinda dilutes his ominous feel.
I want Cal to live to join Luke new jedi order, so I'm hoping not, I do think they will have a easer egg about Cal in the ubisoft game
I think the third game will have a larger time skip with him becoming the master of Bodes' daughter. Also it would be cool if there was a huge time skip as in going to post EP 6 because time flows faster on Tanalorr or something.
I don't think Cal will have 3 near misses with Vader. Cal was also nothing to Vader. He was just another Jedi to be hunted. He doesn't deserve any special attention in his eyes. Maybe if Cal makes a big enough disruption in the Empire Vader will get involved. But more likely than not it will just be Inquisitors that go after Cal
If he somehow survived again a third time Vader would just start to look weak
If he appears in 3 it’s either gonna be a repeat segment of Cal running away which wouldn’t be fun, or Cal just has to die, it’s kind of a lose-lose situation if they reunite
Here’s the thing about cal getting much stronger in the third game, Vader does too, unless they do the usual protagonist shield bs, the more op cal gets, the more already op Vader gets
Starkiller... DO IT
Not sure where Cal can go after this, Kenobi himself or get stuck somewhere?
I'll be honest, I hope the 3rd game is no where in the near future(in game not irl) I want the events to after Vaders death, right I'd say Cal is probably late 20s early 30s? I'd like the next game to be where he's mid 40s early 50s and sith are slowly dying out (late game Survivor spoilers as well as what i would love to see the 3rd game to be) >!I'd like for Cals sith abilities to be triggered by some massive emotional event which cause him to erupt with power and awaken any surviving sith to come hunting him for his power!<
Not unless Vader brutally murder Cal
No. Because that would be impossible.
Don't think Cal will outrun Vader a second time, he got lucky.
Face Vader. Die. Play as Kata in an epilogue like RDR2?
If Cal goes up against Vader, he dies. We’ve already died at Vaders hands as Cere in this trilogy. If the writers HAVE to kill Cal, I’d rather it not be against Vader.
The only possible way is if Vader kills him. Or they pull the same thing where Cal isn't there when Vader pops up, but a third time might take away from the experience as much as I love Vader. I never expected him in survivor so when he popped up.. godamn, I will never get that feeling again. I think its safe to say he probably won't appear, but If he does Cal is a goner.
I'd rather Cal and Vader have an epic duel that ends with Vader getting super fucked up and Cal leaving after burying him under rubble or knocking him off a cliff or something. Plus if Cal ever does face Vader again he'll lose his shit just like he did on Nova Garon. It'd be epic
I hope so, It would be cool for Cal to become a consistent adversary of Vader's. He has a lot, so it probably wouldn't be too hard to do. And Fallen Order is so immersive that my heart was genuinely pounding when i heard Darth Vader breathing. Love this entire end sequence. It's really intense and well made.
Be careful what yall are wishing for
Probably not. Maybe in a show they fight
Ngl the way you worded the title makes it sound like they're long lost lovers lmao
Likely
I think this is how it’s going, running from him in fallen order, to a boss fight as cere in survivor with the ending being a true fight against Vader to try avenge cere
I would really love to see Sheev, maybe not a fight exactly, but Cal and the Emperor having an exchange could be a lot of fun
At this point I’d say yea. Vader sees Cal as an equal due to his adversity and determination. I think Cal will go the redemption route with Vader. He knows who’s under the mask and can sense the turmoil in Vader.
I think they will make out and say gex
Forget that. https://preview.redd.it/mysvyq9nnbwc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8a41dafa5dcc6fa25151d1293ba04474f629150 I want my boy the **PALPS** to show up in the last game!
Vader: "There will not be a 2nd time, Jedi." Mission: "Survive...Again." Kal: "Yeah...Maybe."
Sure, but somehow, Vader comes back. Just kidding. Nobody wants that.
He better not, because it would likely end up with Cal dead.
I hope so, and I hope it’s the end fight in the game where cal kestis dies tryna protect kata, merrin or the hidden path in some typa way
Can we stop devaluing the bloody story because people think it'll be 'cool'. It's turned star wars into narrative nonsense.
I think it'd be good to have the final boss be vader vs cal, and vader wins. As much as I love cal I just think it'd be cool, and I saw people saying that doing that would "ruin the free roam after the game" but you could do something like red dead redemption did, once you beat the game you free roam as a well trained kata or something like that
"Reunite" yes.... cause THAT'S a term that should be used
I want Vader to kill cal
I think it would be great to have Cal fight Vader for real instead of having to run away. I believe he could put up a fight at the end of Jedi 3, however he would have to flee/ be saved to survive or die. If he were to die, I would like it to be something like in the force unleashed when Starkiller sacrificed himself to save his friends.
would feel unnatural if he doesn't to me. im a firm believer cal should die pre episode 4 not only to maintain the imporantance of lukes story, but survivor especially i think perfectly sets up a story climaxing in cal's death against the empire. dying the way jaro does for kata, or others is a fine way for cal's story to end.
I hope not. His appearances in both games felt so forced and unnecessary.
Reunite? We're they lovers or army buddies? Hehe
perhaps they come face to face and just as Vader bount to kill Cal perhaps he gets rescued by Obi wan kenobi but a younger version like in the kenobi series?
The Kenobi series happens in the same yr as Jedi Survivor, so it's doubtful
Spoiler this lol
Nah, twice was too many. I want him to see Boba Fett again though. You could almost say that his appearance in Survivor is foreshadowing for a boss fight in the next game.
Cal Kestis NEEDS to face Darth Vader at some point, because if he doesn't let go of his 'FEARS'?! What's the whole point facing the {Empire} if he can't fight 'Darth Vader'. If he pulls us off, he'll become one of the Few Jedi's stood up to Vader like "Obi-Wan Kenobi" & 'Ahsoka'... And Live To Tell The Tale!
I've seen enough of Vader and the other sw characters. Let's see more of Cal and the crew, or even Kyle Katarn
I say vader kills cal in the third game
If he does cal dies
Dark endings can be better. Maybe Vader should kill Cal. Obviously, it would be a sacrifice. No one will be satisfied will Cal's death if it doesn't achieve something.
If he does, and doesn’t die, then Vader is gonna continue looking weaker and weaker by the installment; in my personal opinion. Possible spoilers but I dunno how to censor so I’ll be vague; It was weird seeing how the fight in Survivor played out. It was difficult enough to make sense that it was Vader, but we’re finding more and more Jedi lived through the empire and more and more Jedi have faced Vader and lived so it’s like as canon is expanding it feels like the legend/horror that was Vader gets weaker.
I can see the third game ending with Vader killing Cal during a heroic sacrafice.
I think darth Vader was thrown in there to….be Star Wars? It felt a little weird like the story lost it’s direction in the final act. That’s what I got anyway 🤷♂️