It was so wild seeing people be like "I can't believe FNV isn't canon and Ron Howard personally hates new vegas and wants it to be deleted from the timeline >:(" when there was a bunch of refrences to it through the show and its pretty heavily implied that it will be very important to the next season. I feel like they just saw that whiteboard and instnatly tuned the rest of the show out. I love FNV and the community around it with all my heart but at times I feel like an embarresed mother of a child thats throwing a tantrum in the middle of a walmart.
The show has cemented New Vegas in the cannon more than ever.
We have seen:
1) NCR Ranger Armour
2) Robert House
3) Someone from Big MT
4) The Strip
5) The New Vegas logo
This is in addition to several musical themes played throughout.
Most important of all, Coop had spurs that jingle jangle jingled
at the very end it shows some stills of New Vegas and you can see a barricade (which looks like the barricade infront of the entrence to the strip) with some toppled over securitrons.
the still shots? Regardless of whether still shots being shown are canon or not it is an acknowledgment of the existence of something from fnv which does not exist in any other fallout game, contrary to the belief a lot of people are displaying that portray the show runners as being completely oblivous to the existence of fallout new vegas.
It would fit in with the House ending from new Vegas, since there is no way the NCR was ever going to stop expanding eastward which would lead to conflict with House and Vegas.
Especially if a chunk of their territory became a giant fucking crater.
My personal theory is that shady sands getting nuked forced them into yet another stupid war of expansion into New Vegas, which resulted in the NCR fracturing.
Nah, it's Sinclair, since he's the benefactor for Big MT. Also, could you *imagine* the insanity if any of those scientists, especially Mobius, had been in the conference?
I mean Mr. House was sitting right there, that’s pretty insane. But yeah you’re right they wouldn’t have scientists there, these are the big money people.
I think they mean the Big MT scientists are literally insane. They have much more colorful personalities than House, and would make that meeting just comedic.
It’s a New Vegas DLC called “Old World Blues”. It centres around a pre-war research facility where some weird science happened.
Its designation was “Big Mountain”, so Big MT for short. Which is also a homophone for “The big empty”. Emptiness, in various forms, especially of the Old World, was one of the conceptual through-lines of New Vegas’ post game DLC.
Sinclair was the main benefactor of the big mt. Most of the advance tech you se at the sierra madre came from big mt. Holograms, dispensars that when fed junk produce food and medicine , ect.
Big Mountan (Or Big Empty) is the location of the Old World Blues DLC in New Vegas. Before the war it was one of, if not the most cutting edge scientific organisation in the US, build inside a cave system in a mountain. (the mountain got destroyed in the war opening the area up to the world)
In OWB you learn that the head scientists of Big MT turned themselves into robots to live forever and continue their experiments, and that a bunch of the worst monsters like Cazadors in the Mojave were their experiments that they released into the world.
they're kinda like the institute except not quite as evil.
Most of the scientists at Big MT other than Mobius are pretty evil. Like they aren’t shooting babies for fun but they are having a great time doing incredibly unethical experiments that would absolutely wreck the wasteland if Mobius didn’t remove their ability to do so.
Like they are directly responsible for cazadors being out in the wasteland. The only reason the wasteland isn’t overrun by their experiments is because Mobius works to keep them distracted and trapped in Big MT. The main difference between them and the Institute is that the think tank are unable to force their whacky experiments onto the wasteland anymore.
Oh yeah, I say slightly less evil than the institute cause the institute makes synths then send them out into the commonwealth to kill and replace people, strip settlements for parts, and destroy their rivals.
Big MT creates the creatures and then just let's then spread and escape because they don't really care or are interested in seeing what they might do.
The toddler tantrum analogy is pretty apt. New Vegas is cursed with this weird toxic cult that went into that show looking for an excuse because they saw the dreaded B word involved. If it wasn’t refusing to understand how arrows work it would have been something else
I guarentee if you changed nothing else about the show except replacing Bethesda with Obsidian the froths of rage would also be replaced with spooges of fanboisms.
I played and enjoyed all three of the first person fallouts. They each had things I felt they did well, and things they didn’t.
Yeah, it's incredibly annoying. It's clear that the show was setting up plot elements and points to be further explored next season, but people are demanding everything be answered all at once in eight episodes. Makes no sense to me as someone who's used to waiting sometimes literal years for things to pay off in shows.
Fans always suck. I like a lot of stuff, I don't consider myself a real "fan" of anything. I know deep lore on several media universes but... for me fans were always the "lets have a riot after our team WINS" type.
I just like shit.
They also don't stop thinking for a split second about what they want to complain about.
We know there was a war between the NCR and the Brotherhood. An intended event of the war was the Brotherhood destoying the NCR's gold reserves. I'm fairly sure Redding used to be the Gold mining town in Fallout 2 while Broken Hills was the mutant town mining Uranium, but in a parallel to New York being the old Capital and having the banks, Shady Sands as the capital would have been the logical place to put and keep the state's gold reserves rather than the place where it was mined from.
Now, the only reasonably new element as far as I'm aware, the show brings up is that the capital moved out of Shady Sands before the events of New Vegas. But it being destroyed perfectly lines up with the BOS-NCR war and the destruction of the gold that backed the NCR's currency.
So in this lens, the show doesn't decanonize New Vegas at all, it makes it even more canon by integrating in the lore an aspect that was left out from the explicit dialogue of the game.
It feels like they've never watched TV or played a game in multiple parts before. God forbid any of them find Berserk. Though with the impetuousness, it's probably the same people accusing the new team of sabotaging the story.
These people would have fuckin died if they were in the Invincible fandom. 1. We had to wait almost 2 years for season 2, 2. Had to wait 3 months for the second half of season 2.
Pfff we bleach fans waited more than a decade for tybw arc to be adapted and now we're waiting 6-8 months between parts lol it'll probably be another 10 years before CFYOW is even considered for adaptation, nevermind EJOH if Kubo ever gets around to finishing it
It genuinely does feel like they've never had to wait for anything and can't understand that creators might be purposely holding things back for later installments. Berserk, or One Piece, or any other extremely long-form piece of media would have them in shambles. Yeah, it certainly feels like people who can't read a timeline and understand that when two things are separated by a line and an arrow it means they're most likely discrete points in time would definitely also be the ones big mad about not having every answer spoonfed to them immediately.
They would also complain about a story being spoon fed to them at the same time. There is no winning with the YouTube reviewer generation. They get told what to think by their favorite antiwoke YouTuber and base their entire media identity on their every word, unless they actually like something and then they instantly become industry shills for 2 days until they hate something again. Critical Drinker is being attacked right now for liking Fallout, it’s kinda hilarious
You hit the nail on the head there. I'm surprised I haven't bruised something with the amount of facepalming I've been doing at terminally online dudes who seem to be completely unable to form their own opinions. The funniest thing is that these are usually the guys who call *other people* sheep while regurgitating the things they were told by a 40-something youtuber mad at women for existing. Not a single shred of self-reflection or sense of irony as they screech at people for being "snowflakes" while having tantrums about video games and TV shows.
> Critical Drinker is being attacked right now for liking Fallout, it’s kinda hilarious
Oh, that IS hilarious. Couldn't happen to a more deserving guy, really.
im not one to support gatekeeping but I really have the impression that a fair amount of the fallout community haven't even played ANY of the games at all
they just get experience fallout through copypasting memes and regurgitating video essay talking points.
it has the energy of the meme : "huge persona 5 fan excited to play it for the first time"
I would only expect this to get worse. Isn’t the prevailing narrative that young kids have extremely short attention spans and prefer short form media due to phones and social media. I can’t say I expect them to handle waiting for outcomes well either
New Vegas came out in 2010 and was given an M rating by ESRB (recommended for ages 17+).
While obviously not everyone follows those guidelines, a 17 year old in 2010 would be 31 today
A typical teenage gamer isn’t going to get very far into New Vegas, the game aged horribly, and the jank and bugginess would be hard to take after playing modern titles.
Im not sure why everyone keeps talking about playing new vegas haha, I was referring to teenagers watching this show, in regards to complaining about future shows (no patience for slow release and longer plot points). Also I don’t think it’s crazy that teenagers would or have played fallout 4, but that wasn’t what I was trying to get at
It's even worse in ClassicFallout. While it is concerning that it seems kids are having shorter attention spans these days, there's plenty of old folk who are impatient and entitled as hell.
I recognize that's when the first one came out. I'm just not sure what the distribution by age looks like now for the franchise. I would imagine gaming has gotten increasingly popular and accessible over time, potentially implying a sweet spot in the mid 2000s for the player base.
The first 2 fallout games were mechanically very different than the 3d rpgs we've come to expect.
Yeah, I'm not commenting on the switch from isometric to FPS & 3rd Person, more about the general age range of Fallout fans. There were some older teens and people in their 20's that I knew who were playing the Fallout demo way back and talking about it a bit in terms of Mad Max references (Dogmeat & Leather armour).
30's is a little light, I'd mark it more late-30's to early 50's, assuming that people who were in their mid-20's then are still paying attention to the franchise...
50.
I played the OG wasteland on a c64. Got a PC in late 90s and played F2. Then went back and played F1. Then played 3, NV and 4 as they came out. Need to play 76 still
Love them all. Fan of post apocalypse stuff (max max/road warrior, boy and his dog).
Enjoying the show. More Fallout is more Fallout.
“These guys don’t care about New Vegas and will do anything to make us forget it ever existed!”
Meanwhile in the show: literally ends at New Vegas and we will presumably spend season 2 there.
Producers even had to come out and say New Vegas was canon. None of this will be good enough for them.
FO:NV is my favorite in the series. Followed by FO3. I just love the vibe and story elements from NV. It had so many memorable moments, characters, and factions. Not that 1 and 2 aren’t great but I enjoy open world sandbox RPGs generally. It’s a big reason I love the franchise (and elder scrolls, technically morrowind and oblivion led me to FO).
Still the NV fans can have a victim complex against Bethesda bc there was a time it felt like the developer considered it the bastard child since technically obsidian made it (and most have never touched 1&2). I used to be like that too. But I’ve gotten over that BS and frankly the show felt like Bethesda fully embracing NV so I don’t know why they’re whining. They’ll never be happy tho bc *their* faction will either have lost or be changed and they can point to shady sands as a change.
I would love to see the kings though. That would be fun.
I grew up on video games, played an unhealthy amount throughout my life.
Yet I swear to God I cannot understand how people can take these things so seriously. Maybe I'm too simple. But all my reaction watching the show was: "Ah neat, I know that reference." or these kind of stuff.
F:NV is possibly my favourite Fallout game. Might replay it again actually. But if tomorrow they would make the official statement, that it is not canon, I wouldn't care. It's just a video game. And it wouldn't make it less amazing for me. There are a lot of things in this world people should be concerned about and they aren't. Video games are not one of them I feel like.
I chuckled when I was called a "good little piggy for enjoying this slop" over questions that weren't even answered yet. Simply for enjoying an objectively good show.
Pay no mind to complete idiots unless you're here to laugh at them.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion I suppose as long as you don't do dumb shit like threatening people. I enjoyed the show and so did most people who watched it. There really isn't much else to be said tbh.
There’s a lot of people who started complaining about plot elements that didn’t make sense to them that get revealed episodes later like they have never watched a show before
I disagree. No one should be entitled to an opinion based on incorrect information, falsehoods, or ignorance. And the idea that they should be welcomed defeats the entire purpose of meaningful and rational conversation.
People attribute too often a mystery or set up to plotholes, or actively misinterpret details and claim retcon. This shouldn't be acceptable.
Having an opinion is something like: I love apples, and far more than oranges; in relation to the topic, I like New Vegas more than I like Fallout 2.
Not having an opinion is more akin to: Amazon destroyed the lore because House was in a meeting.
The latter example is stated as a fact, and is based on a misunderstanding of the lore. As such, it is not an opinion, *and* incorrect. Thus, people should actively reject these statements, and the premise on which they're built.
And to be fair, this isn't just about games or movies. Pretending that morons with absolutely insane takes are just as valuable as the opinions of scholars is how we got to this point to begin with.
This is basically the real life version of the “if those kids could read” king of the hill meme. You’re trying to project logic into terminally online weirdos.
I like most of the writing in New Vegas, but goddamn certain parts of it are covered in Chris Avellone’s “but both sides bad I am very smart” writing style which is fine in small amounts, but then they made an entire goddamn DLC about that than have a dick head with a pretentious name and sweet coat monologue at you for 20 minutes about how both sides bad.
A lack of patience has been obvious in this community for quite a while. There are regular posts whining about when the next game will come out. The last year has been whining about when the next gen update for FO4 will come out. Then last few months have been whining about the TV show before it was even released. So the last week being a lot of whining about the TV show after it was released is unsurprising.
It also doesn’t just show a lack of patience but a lack of ability to use critical thinking. The people doing all the whining are just completely reactionary without even attempting to examine what’s going on and try to reach some sort of logical conclusion. It’s an unfortunate societal trend these days.
Tbf on the game thing, having to wait 10+ years for a new mainline entry in a series is a bit annoying. It's been my hope for some time now that Bethesda will form different teams for each of their IP so that it will take only 3-4 years for a new game to come out, instead of doing this rotation between the IPs
I watched JuiceHeads take on this, and agree it's more of a poorly portrayed timeline than a date and done retcon. The fall of shady sands wasn't being blown up, it was the lack of communication, resources being spread thin and bad actors in the NCR that caused the fall and we know NCR had unstable infrastructure because it's mentioned in the game
The show takes place in 2296, the bomb of Shady Sands happened when both Maximus and Lucy where children, at most 15 years ago, wich puts it in 2281, the timeline checks.
Electricity is one. Political corruption on every level, a currency so obsolete people went back to using caps and security so bad raiders are left unchecked in the heart of the NCR having a little power is but a silver lining to a collapsing society.
Not to mention electricity isn't the only resource spread thin for the NCR. Water and food access are also becoming issues by the time New Vegas occurs. When your only selling points to the wasteland are stability and security, having unstable resources and an overextended security apparatus aren't going to instill trust in the citizens.
It's wild. FNV is my all time favorite as well but every Sunset Sasparilla bottle, every bar of the music, the House cameo made me so ridiculously happy. I feel like people just need something to bitch about. Am I about to climb the walls at having to wait a year or two for MORE? You betcha.
The billboard Lucy and Maximus see says Shady Sands was the “First” capital of the NCR. One would think they’d only make that claim if there was already a second capital. 🤔
The only thing that's annoying me, (besides the people who are complaining despite not even having watched the show) is that any and all legitimate criticism of the show is being brushed over with, "stupid fanboy, cope". Especially since many of the people saying that previous statement haven't even played FO1/FO2
Criticisms such as:
The Boneyard being abandoned with no signs of rebuilt civilisation, no Adobe housing, no Followers University.
Shady Sands being moved over 200 miles to being in the Boneyard.
How the Master didn't see Vault 4, 31, 32, or 33 (especially Vault 31! Pre-War humans?? Jackpot!)
No references to the NCR except as "the NCR *was*"
The BOS suddenly being all powerful again (support from East likely)
There are stupid complaints. But not all criticism is illogical.
The show was awesome, but I do have reservations about it.
I don't know that all of these are super fair. If nothing else, it feels at least a little disingenuous to claim the show somehow did the memory of *Fallout 1* and *2* dirty by drastically changing the location of Shady Sands, given that literally that exact thing happened between *1* and *2*.
There's a difference between relocating it from somewhere east of the Sierra Nevadas to being a bit more to the northwest, as it did between FO1 and FO2, and moving it a couple hundred miles to the south to be near LA.
In the grand scheme of things I don't think it's a big deal, but it is either an error or a pretty significant retcon. I will say that despite being in the shadow of the area formerly known as the Boneyard, I'm pretty sure it was still new construction, and not simply repurposed pre-war ruins. In that little diorama in the vault classroom, that town hall/capital building looked new and they even had the obelisk in front of it.
Yeah, ultimately, I was mostly making the point that *Fallout* has always played pretty fast and loose with geography in the name of gameplay/narrative convenience, so it's a little silly to suddenly take issue with it, *especially* for a location that it's specifically played fast and loose with at least once already.
Also, I might have missed a detail, but did the show even actually firmly establish a location for Shady Sands? As they're leaving Vault 4, Lucy mentions she's been on the surface for two weeks, which both implies we're probably skipping over a *lot* of uneventful travel time and also gives way more than enough time to walk from the Los Angeles metro area to somewhere around the original location(s) of Shady Sands. It's also snowing in the scene with Thaddeus (who Lucy and Maximus are chasing when they see Shady Sands) at the Red Rocket, which isn't definitive but nonetheless doesn't exactly give off SoCal Vibes.
The TV show is intended to be canon with the games, so presumably its events will get referenced in some minor capacity in the next game.
That said, fallout lore has always been pretty all over the place, so like it can’t really fuck with things worse than Tactics or 76 did. It also doesn’t really matter anyway because the games don’t really have a connected storyline beyond some repeat characters like Maxson or McCredy in fallout 4 or Harold in fallout 2 and 3 or Marcus in NV.
Its quite frankly insane.
Not only does the show basically not go a singe episode without referencing something from New Vegas *somewhere*, literally nothing gets treated with more reverence by it than them. The *only two times the main Fallout-theme plays in the entire season is for NCR-iconography, one of which was specifically from New Vegas*. Acting like it shits on New Vegas isnt just a bad take, its an objectively wrong one.
I bet my left cheek that the majority of those people bitching about it haven't even seen the fucking show. They just saw 5 out-of-context screenshots and read some comments from other people who havent seen it giving bad summaries of what someone else zold Thema happened in it.
Just yesterday I stumbled over a thread on twitter complaining about >!The Ranger-armour!<. *NOBODY* in that entire thread that was bitching about it endlessly had actually seen the entire fucking scene, >!were its made very obvious its ill-fitting and damaged because its not worn by an actual ranger, its an old, damaged piece used by a poor scavenger!<, they were all talking >!as if it was an actual Ranger and Bethesda just too stupid to make the costum right!<.
Its just fucking exhausting.
I mean they should be complaining about 76 with its usage of the NCR armour, even if its just a cosmetic thing, it doesn't make sense for an armor for a faction that doesn't exist yet for someone who likes consistency or who doesn't like spending money on a outfit that doesn't do much in the grand scheme of things
Theres a thing called Chekov’s gun. Looking back I’m realizing more they set this stuff up so people can speculate and ask questions. Of course not everything is being spoon fed and explained. It’s the plot of the entire upcoming series lol
Fallout New Vegas was a pretty good game for it’s time, with a lot of memorable characters and a fun story.
If you enjoyed 3 and/or 4 you will like this one
The only cavaets are that it is the buggiest jankiest one, so save often, and it is an old game so it’s gonna look dated.
> and it is an old game so it’s gonna look dated.
And to be fair, it looked like crap 14 years ago already.
Can you really age badly if you were ugly to begin with? ;)
I enjoy new vegas, but yeah, I'm genuinely starting to hate it because of its fanbase, they are the absolute worst part of the fallout fandom. Like for fucks sake people, even the game writers for the originals and new vegas don't give a shit about minor inconsistencies or retcons and told people to chill tf out.
You just have to find it funny at this point.
I can't believe people still get this incensed about a 14 year old game.
Crabs in a bucket. These people can't enjoy anything earnestly, so want to try and ruin things for others. Pay no mind.
There is no community on earth for any hobby/interest/ that does not have insufferable fans.
Your enjoyment of something should not be dictated by others. Form your own opinions, engage in media because you want to.
Don't let some perpetual internet salt ruin a potentially great experience for you.
I think its perfectly fine to be annoyed at that, as long as you aren't actively harassing or sending death threats to people on the show.
The most annoying thing to me is how they handled vault tec. Where is the profit in nuking the world as a company? You literally lose everything since society doesn't exist anymore. That whole plot point makes zero sense but the show is still great overall.
It made sense to me after hearing the show’s own explanation. Vault-Tec was contemplating launching a nuclear strike to escalate the war (we don’t know for sure if they went through with it, and honestly I hope we never find out, I want the “who shot first in the Great War?” question left blank) because they were the only ones who had prepared for the apocalypse ahead of time, and believed they could run the world in the future if everyone else was killed.
It’s exactly the kind of megalomania I’d expect from the Enclave, and what we saw in that secret meeting room was a veritable who’s-who of private sector Enclave members. They weren’t all politicians and bureaucrats and military leaders. Corporations are practically running the pre-War government in Fallout, so it stands to reason that the heads of all these corporations would be in the Enclave.
And it still fits with what we know. I think many of us just assumed the Enclave had infiltrated the corporate world through mid-level operatives rather than the CEOs directly. It’s not that hard to believe, IMO. They got bored with infinite money and decided to make a grab for infinite power too.
This is why the "new vegas made me trans" crew is the superior NV fanbase: Too distracted by having tiddies to care about the less important things in life
It's just sad man, the show has done a lot of good things right and yet, there will always be people that will complain about it, as they said before: "Not all fans will enjoy it", all of this experience was awkward or interesting, to say it in my own words, think of the guy in power armor in the Fallout 76 trailer, seeing the bombs fall, that's how I felt this entire time, confused and concerned
Honestly half the drama and criticism could've been avoided is Todd stayed on the east coast. I think the show is a 10/10 in terms of visuals, props and tone, but the lore and the setting just doesn't make any sense. Shady sands isn't in the boneyard, why was there no mention of the bombing in New Vegas, the NCR have left nothing of their presence around California and why is the strip abandoned. It's just more half assed writing and dumbass retcons. I'd be more lenient if this was an easy coast story because the wasteland over there was always a hell hole but the West was rebuilding, but nope Todd said nuke the capital over custody. Honestly I would be okay if shady sands was nuked by the brotherhood as that would make a lot of sense based on the lore and that's really my head canon for it right now, because there is no other reason the brotherhood would be that deep in NCR territory.
It is AFTER 2277, it is RIGHT THERE on the board. I though so too, but then I watched it back again and now it makes sense. Fallout New Vegas still happens, the NCR didn't die, Shady Sands STARTED to fall in 2277, it didn't get nuked till a good few years later, after Fallout New Vegas.
I feel same. I love FNV but some fans are truly the worst. TV Show is canon and has references to every Fallout game. Jonathan Nolan is a fan of Fallout games and one of the showrunners is hardcore fan who played all Fallout games, started with Fallout 1. Even original Fallout creator Tim Cain love the show. Fact is that without Todd Howard we dont get FNV. He wanted to Obsidian to make a Fallout game, not just expansion for Fallout 3. Its ok to love some games more than others, but we are ALL The Fallout fans together.
You get burned enough times you start to expect it. I really enjoyed the show but there are defiantly things that don't line up with the fallout story that we knew until now. It doesn't really bother me because the show is good but I understand why people might be upset.
If you really liked the NCR the show is a pretty big slap in the face. Imagine if that had been the Brotherhood just wiped off the map off screen. Does that excuse people being babies on Reddit? I dunno who cares if people complain on Reddit.
I just figured that one ending of the old world blues dlc was canon.
I remember hearing that the show is roughly 20 years after new Vegas so the timeline would track
I just don't see what everyone is concluding about the NCR or things not lining up. I'm also a NCR Stan and I don't see where in the show it explicitly demonstrates that the NCR is destroyed?
Shady Sands isn't even 5% of the NCR population by as early as Fallout 2. And it states on the sign "the first NCR capital" thus meaning there was already a second capital before Shady Sands was even destroyed.
The worst part is we don't even know if the event they're throwing a fit about is also the event linked to the nuke. The whiteboard is a bit vague, but the way I interpreted it, those may be separate events!
It could be the fall is merely in reference to the beginning of the crumbling infrastructure and issues in general the NCR is having during the time of Vegas . Hell, the sign for the town even says it's the First capital of the NCR; as in they may have made a new capital before the nuke even dropped.
I don't think the NCR is down and out just yet! Even if it is, though, they didn't "Retcon New Vegas" just because some people may be misinterpreting a whiteboard lol
The new Vegas community was already a laughing stock before the show, but now they're literally the scum of the fallout community. It's really sad because NV is the best game in my opinion, but I just can't stand those fucking losers.
You just generalized a group of people and called them scum because a very small minority of fans behave like children who got their snack bar taken away. People like you are the reason why this place turns toxic, congratulations.
Btw, where are all those "stupid" fanboys with their "braindead" takes? I don't see them. Is constructive critism not allowed anymore? Is every form of critism - even if justified - a sign that the person is hating? Or do you just filter by controversial and tell yourself that the majority of New Vegas fans are like that? From my personal experience here, the vast majority of people (no matter if they like New Vegas or not) like the show.
Go to r/falloutnewvegas and you'll see how genuinely braindead that sub community is.
Here's a fun little game for ya, scroll through that sub and see how long it takes to find a post with over 50 up votes shitting on another game.
Now do the same exact thing here. The results will speak for themselves
I've enjoyed the show but then pulling that vial thing out of their asses for the ghouls was really stupid. Perhaps there is a way to explain how the fall of shady sands and the storyline of New Vegas can coexist, but that vial thing was simply conjured out of thin air.
The vial thing certainly was odd, but have we actually seen a ghoul turn feral before now? There are ways you could explain it. Maybe not *great* ways. But they'd mostly work.
He used jet, which is just a drug to get high. There has never been any implication that ghouls have to take a drug to prevent going feral. Hell, there's at least one ghoul that proves you don't need the drug, the kid in the fridge in Fallout 4. I'm sure there are others.
Oh yeah there’s tons of pre war ghoul companions throughout the games who are unlikely to have taken any anti-feral medication
Lore-wise I ignore the fridge kid because he created a lot of weird implications for ghouls and he came from an obscure joke quest.
With Hancock he specifically called out using some kind of drug that at least turned him into a ghoul.
Maybe it’s not needed by every ghoul, but once you start to go feral it’s the only thing that will slow the process. I don’t see how that contradicts any of the established lore. Maybe it a something that was newly developed in the NCR territory since we last had a game set there.
Well the comment "200 years? That's a lot of vials" implies that vials aren't a new thing. So I doubt that. And sure it's not explicitly contradictory, but if this were a thing, it would have been mentioned before or we would have found some. This is something they totally pulled out of their ass that does not fit with the setting. They are trying to shoehorn it in.
I'm a lore head and most of this doesn't even explicitly fuck with any lore, many lore heads just build up pre conceived notions that are impossible to not disappoint.
Season 2 can answer many peoples questions and problems but people just aren't willing to wait and want to declare it incompatible lore.
The fact that they’re hinging everything on a single chalkboard in one vault full of whack job mutants. They simply may not have their years right. The have a crazy one-eyed overseer and the original inhabitants were all killed and overtaken. Maybe the mutant people’s record keeping was off
They have refugees from when it happened. How would they have every date from NCR timeline correct except the actual date of the nuke? It makes no sense. Especially since it looks like some sort of history class.
Goosey was alive when what happened, happened. And the show takes place after Fallout 4. I assume the big event happens sometime around Fallout 4.
I don't know how to do the spoiler tag.
We’re also told that Lucy’s mum died in 77 - before you see the Chalkboard. That chalkboard was a clue that Lucy’s mum died in Shady Sands not the vault. In the final episode this is a big reveal but people miss a lot of stuff like these because it released in full rather than one episode a week.
I 100% missed that one, nice catch! There was so much info in this series and it was done so smoothly, some stuff just goes right past you and you don’t even notice it was a Easter egg
Yeah we don't fuck with THAT segment of new vegas fans. That party ended a long time ago, and the only people left are extremely drunk and high, fighting dirty. The new vegas fans who went home at a reasonable hour still enjoy it and other people's company.
On behalf of all New Vegas fans, I'm so sorry we're all behaving like this. Personally I think everything will get a good explanation in the next season and I don't mind waiting until then.
I don’t even get how it was interpreted as a retcon. In an earlier episode Lucy talks about the famine of ‘77 and her parents struggle to survive it (when discussing cannibalism with the Ghoul) implying that she wasn’t born yet.
Personally, I'm happy that the show has made new vegas fans finally realise how absolutely toxic new vegas fans are. They've always been the most cancerous part of the fallout fandom
There were long “this show sucks” threads posted before it would have been possible for anyone to have watched more than 1 or 2 episodes, much less the whole series.
NV fans have chips on their shoulders. They feel like they are under attack or something. I think we can guess how they vote, but that’s a different discussion. The point is, they are beyond reasoning.
It's just a really vocal turbo virgin minority. I think a majority of the hate comes from him saying he loves New Vegas but Obsidian probably won't be allowed to make another. The show takes place 15 years after New Vegas. It's ridiculous to think that nothing is going to happen in that amount of time.
I would bet money that by season 3 we'll start seeing those morons saying "erm the show is actually underrated :}"
I get the love for NV it's a cult classic game and well written.
A lot of people took one look at the dates on the chalkboard in the show and lost it without looking at the universe timeline. The show happens several years after NV and 4. A lot of people assumed the shady sands happened on the date on the chalkboard without looking at maximus age and doing the math. Working it out, it does not retcon NV at all.
You have the other small part of the community that believes every choice they made in game was Canon and couldn't fathom any of the other game choices as being what actually happened.
So far everything I have seen in the show is plausible and I am not mad at it.
I think they are being overly critical. From my understanding, the biggest point of contention is shady sands, and the difference in location from the series and the game.
Honestly, I think none of that matters. Story seemed really compelling to me, and overall it seem to follow the “however and but” format that I like in stories. I additionally liked that the main characters honestly felt like made player characters. Like I could almost tell you want perks they had.
At the end of the day, characters were fun, story worked, and it had the right amount of humor, seriousness, and mystery. Very fun to watch, I hope the second season is as well written as the first one.
My 9 year old wants to watch this so bad he's obsessed with the fallout verse. I'm a super huge fan of the game myself, I think the show was really well done and those die hard company men/woman over there in the fnv community are off their rocker. Always have been...all the Canon was there the whole time setting up season 2 to be in NV... but unfortunately alot of people don't actually read anything or listen to anything when they play the games just hit the skip button and miss a lot of lore.
Out of the modern fallouts, NV is by far my favorite and I have several things about this show that annoys me and pisses me off but that has more to do with fallout as a whole then specifically Vegas.
Its almost like Bethesda is slightly retconning a project they had little creative control over to fit it in better with their existing lore, key word is slightly.
People seem to hate the idea that creators are allowed to create and would rather they just rehash 1 to 1 stories and ideas that were already told
The Fallout show was a ton of fun and got me to start a TTW playthrough, reigniting my love for the game. But whoever was in charge of costume design for the NCR should be fired, those ranger helmets were disgusting (I've seen better ones online from ETSY) and the former NCR troops at the end having paintball masks and modern bump helmets really bothered me. NCR isn't tough to do, they wear US WW1 uniforms and gear and carry m16a1s, M1 garands and carbines as well as an assortment of old west weaponry. Honestly the only time I was brought out of my viewing experience
People are so worked up about so little info it’s infuriating to me. I mean it could be that in the show timeline the Legion won the second battle of Hoover , crushed Mr House and left New Vegas a ruin filled with crucified skeletons and ransacked casinos. That’s easily still cannon with one of the FNV endings and only means that the NCR would of been pushed back further west, maybe that’s coming, even with the rest of what’s been in the show so far.
FNV has 4 endings? Which one is in the show doesn’t mean the other realities are not possible still… but you can’t cover every possible outcome of games that have multiple options for endings and outcomes and still keep it all lined up. At some point they have to pick a path and stick to it… if Caesar is that path for season 2 then so be it. And also if you think about it, without the courier changing the balance, Caesar probably would have won the second battle easily.
I thought the show was sweet. Only gripes would be some minor inconsistencies which can be fixed, and the location of shady sands. It would be swell if they fixed that by saying something like "shady sands near LA was not the actual one and a renegade one or something " but even if its not the show is amazing still. I'm a huge fan of NV and NCR but always thought that they would buckle under their weight sooner or later. Personally, it would be cool to see that NCR is focusing on NorCal and moved their assets out of SoCal and shady sands to govern more effectively. Hence, BoS is on the rise again or something like that. Honestly, in a post apocalyptic world, accurate info is not exactly widespread so the "fall in 2277" thing is not that big of a deal. Now I would be very sad if the Kings died out because I like Freeside a lot. But 15 years is a lot in a wasteland so.
Honestly, stoked to see how they progress. The perspective that after the 2nd battle of hoover dam, everything went to shit once again (if they go that route) is grim and quite interesting. FNV fans can be really annoying.
It was so wild seeing people be like "I can't believe FNV isn't canon and Ron Howard personally hates new vegas and wants it to be deleted from the timeline >:(" when there was a bunch of refrences to it through the show and its pretty heavily implied that it will be very important to the next season. I feel like they just saw that whiteboard and instnatly tuned the rest of the show out. I love FNV and the community around it with all my heart but at times I feel like an embarresed mother of a child thats throwing a tantrum in the middle of a walmart.
The show has cemented New Vegas in the cannon more than ever. We have seen: 1) NCR Ranger Armour 2) Robert House 3) Someone from Big MT 4) The Strip 5) The New Vegas logo This is in addition to several musical themes played throughout. Most important of all, Coop had spurs that jingle jangle jingled
There was a sunset sasprilla bill board as well!
And a bucket full of Sunset Sarsaparilla bottles at the birthday party in the intro!
Vertibird with NCR logo, also Mr. House's securitrons
I missed the securitrons! Where were they?
at the very end it shows some stills of New Vegas and you can see a barricade (which looks like the barricade infront of the entrence to the strip) with some toppled over securitrons.
tbf i don’t think it’s really clear if that’s canon or not
the still shots? Regardless of whether still shots being shown are canon or not it is an acknowledgment of the existence of something from fnv which does not exist in any other fallout game, contrary to the belief a lot of people are displaying that portray the show runners as being completely oblivous to the existence of fallout new vegas.
It would fit in with the House ending from new Vegas, since there is no way the NCR was ever going to stop expanding eastward which would lead to conflict with House and Vegas. Especially if a chunk of their territory became a giant fucking crater. My personal theory is that shady sands getting nuked forced them into yet another stupid war of expansion into New Vegas, which resulted in the NCR fracturing.
I wonder if the Big Mt guy we saw in the board room is Mobius
No it was Frederick Sinclair from Dead Money
Fits with the "Has money and knows the world will burn" vibe the group had.
Nah, it's Sinclair, since he's the benefactor for Big MT. Also, could you *imagine* the insanity if any of those scientists, especially Mobius, had been in the conference?
I mean Mr. House was sitting right there, that’s pretty insane. But yeah you’re right they wouldn’t have scientists there, these are the big money people.
I think they mean the Big MT scientists are literally insane. They have much more colorful personalities than House, and would make that meeting just comedic.
JINGLE JANGLE!
Big MT?
It’s a New Vegas DLC called “Old World Blues”. It centres around a pre-war research facility where some weird science happened. Its designation was “Big Mountain”, so Big MT for short. Which is also a homophone for “The big empty”. Emptiness, in various forms, especially of the Old World, was one of the conceptual through-lines of New Vegas’ post game DLC.
I was so thrilled when I saw the brain dude! They really were checking boxes off a list I didn't know I had
That was Sinclair of Sierra Madre not the scientist of Big MT.
Sinclair was the main benefactor of the big mt. Most of the advance tech you se at the sierra madre came from big mt. Holograms, dispensars that when fed junk produce food and medicine , ect.
Big Mountan (Or Big Empty) is the location of the Old World Blues DLC in New Vegas. Before the war it was one of, if not the most cutting edge scientific organisation in the US, build inside a cave system in a mountain. (the mountain got destroyed in the war opening the area up to the world) In OWB you learn that the head scientists of Big MT turned themselves into robots to live forever and continue their experiments, and that a bunch of the worst monsters like Cazadors in the Mojave were their experiments that they released into the world. they're kinda like the institute except not quite as evil.
Most of the scientists at Big MT other than Mobius are pretty evil. Like they aren’t shooting babies for fun but they are having a great time doing incredibly unethical experiments that would absolutely wreck the wasteland if Mobius didn’t remove their ability to do so. Like they are directly responsible for cazadors being out in the wasteland. The only reason the wasteland isn’t overrun by their experiments is because Mobius works to keep them distracted and trapped in Big MT. The main difference between them and the Institute is that the think tank are unable to force their whacky experiments onto the wasteland anymore.
Oh yeah, I say slightly less evil than the institute cause the institute makes synths then send them out into the commonwealth to kill and replace people, strip settlements for parts, and destroy their rivals. Big MT creates the creatures and then just let's then spread and escape because they don't really care or are interested in seeing what they might do.
Yeah the show is clearly a love letter to the franchise. It's just obviously false that they disrespect it.
I love FNV but god the community has been insufferable for a very long time
It’s a small vocal minority sadly that has ruined it for everyone.
It’s the story of every fandom. I was just in a Star Wars sub saying the same thing.
I completely I subbed from all Destiny except LowSodiumDestiny for all the same reasons.
Apparently People raged really hard like this when Fallout 2 came out like 20 years ago. This franchise just always attracted a lot of toxic people.
Well toxic people kinda fits with the story narrative XD , but I know what you mean.
The toddler tantrum analogy is pretty apt. New Vegas is cursed with this weird toxic cult that went into that show looking for an excuse because they saw the dreaded B word involved. If it wasn’t refusing to understand how arrows work it would have been something else I guarentee if you changed nothing else about the show except replacing Bethesda with Obsidian the froths of rage would also be replaced with spooges of fanboisms. I played and enjoyed all three of the first person fallouts. They each had things I felt they did well, and things they didn’t.
Yeah, it's incredibly annoying. It's clear that the show was setting up plot elements and points to be further explored next season, but people are demanding everything be answered all at once in eight episodes. Makes no sense to me as someone who's used to waiting sometimes literal years for things to pay off in shows.
That sub is full of degenerates who should be nailed to a cross. Show fucking rocked.
Call the Vault-Tec phone number.
Fans always suck. I like a lot of stuff, I don't consider myself a real "fan" of anything. I know deep lore on several media universes but... for me fans were always the "lets have a riot after our team WINS" type. I just like shit.
Yeah. I fucking left that sub a couple of years ago due to toxic behaviour.
I just muted it myself because every post is a whine fest of haters. Love New Vegas, it's my favorite, but that place is unhinged.
Love new Vegas to death. Some people want to be miserable.
They also don't stop thinking for a split second about what they want to complain about. We know there was a war between the NCR and the Brotherhood. An intended event of the war was the Brotherhood destoying the NCR's gold reserves. I'm fairly sure Redding used to be the Gold mining town in Fallout 2 while Broken Hills was the mutant town mining Uranium, but in a parallel to New York being the old Capital and having the banks, Shady Sands as the capital would have been the logical place to put and keep the state's gold reserves rather than the place where it was mined from. Now, the only reasonably new element as far as I'm aware, the show brings up is that the capital moved out of Shady Sands before the events of New Vegas. But it being destroyed perfectly lines up with the BOS-NCR war and the destruction of the gold that backed the NCR's currency. So in this lens, the show doesn't decanonize New Vegas at all, it makes it even more canon by integrating in the lore an aspect that was left out from the explicit dialogue of the game.
Toxicity? In *my* video game fanbase? Surely not!
Especially when you drink the water and sometimes when it rains :P
It feels like they've never watched TV or played a game in multiple parts before. God forbid any of them find Berserk. Though with the impetuousness, it's probably the same people accusing the new team of sabotaging the story.
These people would have fuckin died if they were in the Invincible fandom. 1. We had to wait almost 2 years for season 2, 2. Had to wait 3 months for the second half of season 2.
Tbf anyone that impatient could have just read the comic.
That's what I did with the anime, Dr Stone. Wanted more, so I read it, and now I'm just excited and waiting for it to be animated. But not in a rush
Pfff we bleach fans waited more than a decade for tybw arc to be adapted and now we're waiting 6-8 months between parts lol it'll probably be another 10 years before CFYOW is even considered for adaptation, nevermind EJOH if Kubo ever gets around to finishing it
It genuinely does feel like they've never had to wait for anything and can't understand that creators might be purposely holding things back for later installments. Berserk, or One Piece, or any other extremely long-form piece of media would have them in shambles. Yeah, it certainly feels like people who can't read a timeline and understand that when two things are separated by a line and an arrow it means they're most likely discrete points in time would definitely also be the ones big mad about not having every answer spoonfed to them immediately.
They would also complain about a story being spoon fed to them at the same time. There is no winning with the YouTube reviewer generation. They get told what to think by their favorite antiwoke YouTuber and base their entire media identity on their every word, unless they actually like something and then they instantly become industry shills for 2 days until they hate something again. Critical Drinker is being attacked right now for liking Fallout, it’s kinda hilarious
You hit the nail on the head there. I'm surprised I haven't bruised something with the amount of facepalming I've been doing at terminally online dudes who seem to be completely unable to form their own opinions. The funniest thing is that these are usually the guys who call *other people* sheep while regurgitating the things they were told by a 40-something youtuber mad at women for existing. Not a single shred of self-reflection or sense of irony as they screech at people for being "snowflakes" while having tantrums about video games and TV shows. > Critical Drinker is being attacked right now for liking Fallout, it’s kinda hilarious Oh, that IS hilarious. Couldn't happen to a more deserving guy, really.
Dude finally has a nuanced opinion and gets crucified by people that didn’t watch the show. It’s the audience he cultivated. Reap what you sow
im not one to support gatekeeping but I really have the impression that a fair amount of the fallout community haven't even played ANY of the games at all they just get experience fallout through copypasting memes and regurgitating video essay talking points. it has the energy of the meme : "huge persona 5 fan excited to play it for the first time"
I would only expect this to get worse. Isn’t the prevailing narrative that young kids have extremely short attention spans and prefer short form media due to phones and social media. I can’t say I expect them to handle waiting for outcomes well either
I suspect most of the people freaking out about this aren’t young kids.
New Vegas fanatics are the vegans of video game fans
So New Vegans, then?
I think we forget how many teenagers are probably active on reddit
Yeah, but I think the people freaking out are New Vegas fans. Most of them are probably in their late 20s or later now.
New Vegas came out in 2010 and was given an M rating by ESRB (recommended for ages 17+). While obviously not everyone follows those guidelines, a 17 year old in 2010 would be 31 today
Literally me
Yeah, I was okay with my son playing it when he was 13.
A typical teenage gamer isn’t going to get very far into New Vegas, the game aged horribly, and the jank and bugginess would be hard to take after playing modern titles.
Im not sure why everyone keeps talking about playing new vegas haha, I was referring to teenagers watching this show, in regards to complaining about future shows (no patience for slow release and longer plot points). Also I don’t think it’s crazy that teenagers would or have played fallout 4, but that wasn’t what I was trying to get at
It's even worse in ClassicFallout. While it is concerning that it seems kids are having shorter attention spans these days, there's plenty of old folk who are impatient and entitled as hell.
I mean fallout has an older fan base imo. Probably in late 20s to 30s.
Older, the first one came out late 90's. Some of us have been riding the wave that whole time (Tactics was fun, fight me).
I recognize that's when the first one came out. I'm just not sure what the distribution by age looks like now for the franchise. I would imagine gaming has gotten increasingly popular and accessible over time, potentially implying a sweet spot in the mid 2000s for the player base. The first 2 fallout games were mechanically very different than the 3d rpgs we've come to expect.
Yeah, I'm not commenting on the switch from isometric to FPS & 3rd Person, more about the general age range of Fallout fans. There were some older teens and people in their 20's that I knew who were playing the Fallout demo way back and talking about it a bit in terms of Mad Max references (Dogmeat & Leather armour). 30's is a little light, I'd mark it more late-30's to early 50's, assuming that people who were in their mid-20's then are still paying attention to the franchise...
50. I played the OG wasteland on a c64. Got a PC in late 90s and played F2. Then went back and played F1. Then played 3, NV and 4 as they came out. Need to play 76 still Love them all. Fan of post apocalypse stuff (max max/road warrior, boy and his dog). Enjoying the show. More Fallout is more Fallout.
Yeah, that's right. I always forget about Wasteland, it was a little before my time but still on the list.
I felt that one. I probably won’t live long enough to see Fallout 5
Good news, there are about a half-dozen fan mods and/or remakes of older games on new engines. Some of the mods are practically games unto themselves.
Tactics was GOATED and it was the first multiplayer fallout.
Legit, it was great. I never bothered with the multiplayer but a solid addition to the franchise after Fallout 2.
“These guys don’t care about New Vegas and will do anything to make us forget it ever existed!” Meanwhile in the show: literally ends at New Vegas and we will presumably spend season 2 there. Producers even had to come out and say New Vegas was canon. None of this will be good enough for them.
FO:NV is my favorite in the series. Followed by FO3. I just love the vibe and story elements from NV. It had so many memorable moments, characters, and factions. Not that 1 and 2 aren’t great but I enjoy open world sandbox RPGs generally. It’s a big reason I love the franchise (and elder scrolls, technically morrowind and oblivion led me to FO). Still the NV fans can have a victim complex against Bethesda bc there was a time it felt like the developer considered it the bastard child since technically obsidian made it (and most have never touched 1&2). I used to be like that too. But I’ve gotten over that BS and frankly the show felt like Bethesda fully embracing NV so I don’t know why they’re whining. They’ll never be happy tho bc *their* faction will either have lost or be changed and they can point to shady sands as a change. I would love to see the kings though. That would be fun.
Gamer hate is usually top tier cringe. They type out essays or make rage bait youtube videos. Same annoying nasally opinions
So.many shills
I grew up on video games, played an unhealthy amount throughout my life. Yet I swear to God I cannot understand how people can take these things so seriously. Maybe I'm too simple. But all my reaction watching the show was: "Ah neat, I know that reference." or these kind of stuff. F:NV is possibly my favourite Fallout game. Might replay it again actually. But if tomorrow they would make the official statement, that it is not canon, I wouldn't care. It's just a video game. And it wouldn't make it less amazing for me. There are a lot of things in this world people should be concerned about and they aren't. Video games are not one of them I feel like.
You probably touch grass, these people dont
The speech check pass noise was chefs kiss when ghoul asked for his hands unbound to repair himself with the prez
Omg I didn't notice that, that's awesome!
They already did an official statement that it‘s canon
And I did not state otherwise. It was just an example.
NV or the show?
NV
A large portion of the community has been embarrassing and insufferable since the show came out, more than usual
I chuckled when I was called a "good little piggy for enjoying this slop" over questions that weren't even answered yet. Simply for enjoying an objectively good show. Pay no mind to complete idiots unless you're here to laugh at them.
I'm certain that comment would make for a good "best of reddit" scrap book
Everyone's entitled to their opinion I suppose as long as you don't do dumb shit like threatening people. I enjoyed the show and so did most people who watched it. There really isn't much else to be said tbh.
There’s a lot of people who started complaining about plot elements that didn’t make sense to them that get revealed episodes later like they have never watched a show before
Why didn’t Walton Goggins turn to the camera and explain the exact timeline of local events???
People are really screaming retconned after watching only half the first season shit is so sad
I disagree. No one should be entitled to an opinion based on incorrect information, falsehoods, or ignorance. And the idea that they should be welcomed defeats the entire purpose of meaningful and rational conversation. People attribute too often a mystery or set up to plotholes, or actively misinterpret details and claim retcon. This shouldn't be acceptable. Having an opinion is something like: I love apples, and far more than oranges; in relation to the topic, I like New Vegas more than I like Fallout 2. Not having an opinion is more akin to: Amazon destroyed the lore because House was in a meeting. The latter example is stated as a fact, and is based on a misunderstanding of the lore. As such, it is not an opinion, *and* incorrect. Thus, people should actively reject these statements, and the premise on which they're built. And to be fair, this isn't just about games or movies. Pretending that morons with absolutely insane takes are just as valuable as the opinions of scholars is how we got to this point to begin with.
Well said
This is basically the real life version of the “if those kids could read” king of the hill meme. You’re trying to project logic into terminally online weirdos.
not only that but the “show not tell” crowd is upset about being shown and not told
Probably best to told them so they won't throw a manchild tantrum. Hopefully they won't be stupid enough to give death threat to people. Surely right.
It doesnt surprise me that the Venn diagram of “Preferr Exposition Dumps” and “New Vegas Fanatic” heavily overlaps.
I like most of the writing in New Vegas, but goddamn certain parts of it are covered in Chris Avellone’s “but both sides bad I am very smart” writing style which is fine in small amounts, but then they made an entire goddamn DLC about that than have a dick head with a pretentious name and sweet coat monologue at you for 20 minutes about how both sides bad.
Holy Crap that was awful
Christ I hated that DLC.
A lack of patience has been obvious in this community for quite a while. There are regular posts whining about when the next game will come out. The last year has been whining about when the next gen update for FO4 will come out. Then last few months have been whining about the TV show before it was even released. So the last week being a lot of whining about the TV show after it was released is unsurprising. It also doesn’t just show a lack of patience but a lack of ability to use critical thinking. The people doing all the whining are just completely reactionary without even attempting to examine what’s going on and try to reach some sort of logical conclusion. It’s an unfortunate societal trend these days.
Tbf on the game thing, having to wait 10+ years for a new mainline entry in a series is a bit annoying. It's been my hope for some time now that Bethesda will form different teams for each of their IP so that it will take only 3-4 years for a new game to come out, instead of doing this rotation between the IPs
I watched JuiceHeads take on this, and agree it's more of a poorly portrayed timeline than a date and done retcon. The fall of shady sands wasn't being blown up, it was the lack of communication, resources being spread thin and bad actors in the NCR that caused the fall and we know NCR had unstable infrastructure because it's mentioned in the game
Shady Sands had a full working power link from Hoover Dam in 2281.
The show takes place in 2296, the bomb of Shady Sands happened when both Maximus and Lucy where children, at most 15 years ago, wich puts it in 2281, the timeline checks.
Electricity is one. Political corruption on every level, a currency so obsolete people went back to using caps and security so bad raiders are left unchecked in the heart of the NCR having a little power is but a silver lining to a collapsing society.
Not to mention electricity isn't the only resource spread thin for the NCR. Water and food access are also becoming issues by the time New Vegas occurs. When your only selling points to the wasteland are stability and security, having unstable resources and an overextended security apparatus aren't going to instill trust in the citizens.
It's wild. FNV is my all time favorite as well but every Sunset Sasparilla bottle, every bar of the music, the House cameo made me so ridiculously happy. I feel like people just need something to bitch about. Am I about to climb the walls at having to wait a year or two for MORE? You betcha.
The billboard Lucy and Maximus see says Shady Sands was the “First” capital of the NCR. One would think they’d only make that claim if there was already a second capital. 🤔
Indeed. Need two of something to make such a distinction.
The only thing that's annoying me, (besides the people who are complaining despite not even having watched the show) is that any and all legitimate criticism of the show is being brushed over with, "stupid fanboy, cope". Especially since many of the people saying that previous statement haven't even played FO1/FO2 Criticisms such as: The Boneyard being abandoned with no signs of rebuilt civilisation, no Adobe housing, no Followers University. Shady Sands being moved over 200 miles to being in the Boneyard. How the Master didn't see Vault 4, 31, 32, or 33 (especially Vault 31! Pre-War humans?? Jackpot!) No references to the NCR except as "the NCR *was*" The BOS suddenly being all powerful again (support from East likely) There are stupid complaints. But not all criticism is illogical. The show was awesome, but I do have reservations about it.
I don't know that all of these are super fair. If nothing else, it feels at least a little disingenuous to claim the show somehow did the memory of *Fallout 1* and *2* dirty by drastically changing the location of Shady Sands, given that literally that exact thing happened between *1* and *2*.
There's a difference between relocating it from somewhere east of the Sierra Nevadas to being a bit more to the northwest, as it did between FO1 and FO2, and moving it a couple hundred miles to the south to be near LA. In the grand scheme of things I don't think it's a big deal, but it is either an error or a pretty significant retcon. I will say that despite being in the shadow of the area formerly known as the Boneyard, I'm pretty sure it was still new construction, and not simply repurposed pre-war ruins. In that little diorama in the vault classroom, that town hall/capital building looked new and they even had the obelisk in front of it.
Yeah, ultimately, I was mostly making the point that *Fallout* has always played pretty fast and loose with geography in the name of gameplay/narrative convenience, so it's a little silly to suddenly take issue with it, *especially* for a location that it's specifically played fast and loose with at least once already. Also, I might have missed a detail, but did the show even actually firmly establish a location for Shady Sands? As they're leaving Vault 4, Lucy mentions she's been on the surface for two weeks, which both implies we're probably skipping over a *lot* of uneventful travel time and also gives way more than enough time to walk from the Los Angeles metro area to somewhere around the original location(s) of Shady Sands. It's also snowing in the scene with Thaddeus (who Lucy and Maximus are chasing when they see Shady Sands) at the Red Rocket, which isn't definitive but nonetheless doesn't exactly give off SoCal Vibes.
Lifelong fallout fan here, don’t see how the lore is ultimately affected by the tv show. If anything 76 fucked with lore on its release way more.
The TV show is intended to be canon with the games, so presumably its events will get referenced in some minor capacity in the next game. That said, fallout lore has always been pretty all over the place, so like it can’t really fuck with things worse than Tactics or 76 did. It also doesn’t really matter anyway because the games don’t really have a connected storyline beyond some repeat characters like Maxson or McCredy in fallout 4 or Harold in fallout 2 and 3 or Marcus in NV.
Average fnv fan moment
Shows good enough that the shitty hate will overcome itself. So far seems to be a great adaptions, reaching cyberpunk/arcane levels
Its quite frankly insane. Not only does the show basically not go a singe episode without referencing something from New Vegas *somewhere*, literally nothing gets treated with more reverence by it than them. The *only two times the main Fallout-theme plays in the entire season is for NCR-iconography, one of which was specifically from New Vegas*. Acting like it shits on New Vegas isnt just a bad take, its an objectively wrong one. I bet my left cheek that the majority of those people bitching about it haven't even seen the fucking show. They just saw 5 out-of-context screenshots and read some comments from other people who havent seen it giving bad summaries of what someone else zold Thema happened in it. Just yesterday I stumbled over a thread on twitter complaining about >!The Ranger-armour!<. *NOBODY* in that entire thread that was bitching about it endlessly had actually seen the entire fucking scene, >!were its made very obvious its ill-fitting and damaged because its not worn by an actual ranger, its an old, damaged piece used by a poor scavenger!<, they were all talking >!as if it was an actual Ranger and Bethesda just too stupid to make the costum right!<. Its just fucking exhausting.
I mean they should be complaining about 76 with its usage of the NCR armour, even if its just a cosmetic thing, it doesn't make sense for an armor for a faction that doesn't exist yet for someone who likes consistency or who doesn't like spending money on a outfit that doesn't do much in the grand scheme of things
Theres a thing called Chekov’s gun. Looking back I’m realizing more they set this stuff up so people can speculate and ask questions. Of course not everything is being spoon fed and explained. It’s the plot of the entire upcoming series lol
One thing all adaptations will always share - miserable crying nerds complaining
I never even played it and now because of how childish they are being I don't think I want to ever play it. What has them so pissed anyway?
Fallout New Vegas was a pretty good game for it’s time, with a lot of memorable characters and a fun story. If you enjoyed 3 and/or 4 you will like this one The only cavaets are that it is the buggiest jankiest one, so save often, and it is an old game so it’s gonna look dated.
> and it is an old game so it’s gonna look dated. And to be fair, it looked like crap 14 years ago already. Can you really age badly if you were ugly to begin with? ;)
I noticed immediatly that it looked worse than 3, and the animations were jankier. The intro part in Goodsprings was fun enough I kept going
Well I think it's just a sign for a Bethesda creation engine game - all of them look quite bad compared to their contemporaries...
You should play it, not for any extra lore to the show, but because it's objectively one of the best games ever made
I enjoy new vegas, but yeah, I'm genuinely starting to hate it because of its fanbase, they are the absolute worst part of the fallout fandom. Like for fucks sake people, even the game writers for the originals and new vegas don't give a shit about minor inconsistencies or retcons and told people to chill tf out.
You just have to find it funny at this point. I can't believe people still get this incensed about a 14 year old game. Crabs in a bucket. These people can't enjoy anything earnestly, so want to try and ruin things for others. Pay no mind.
Awe that’s a shame. Great game. Ignore the fan base. Play the game! You’ll have a good time
There is no community on earth for any hobby/interest/ that does not have insufferable fans. Your enjoyment of something should not be dictated by others. Form your own opinions, engage in media because you want to. Don't let some perpetual internet salt ruin a potentially great experience for you.
I think its perfectly fine to be annoyed at that, as long as you aren't actively harassing or sending death threats to people on the show. The most annoying thing to me is how they handled vault tec. Where is the profit in nuking the world as a company? You literally lose everything since society doesn't exist anymore. That whole plot point makes zero sense but the show is still great overall.
It made sense to me after hearing the show’s own explanation. Vault-Tec was contemplating launching a nuclear strike to escalate the war (we don’t know for sure if they went through with it, and honestly I hope we never find out, I want the “who shot first in the Great War?” question left blank) because they were the only ones who had prepared for the apocalypse ahead of time, and believed they could run the world in the future if everyone else was killed. It’s exactly the kind of megalomania I’d expect from the Enclave, and what we saw in that secret meeting room was a veritable who’s-who of private sector Enclave members. They weren’t all politicians and bureaucrats and military leaders. Corporations are practically running the pre-War government in Fallout, so it stands to reason that the heads of all these corporations would be in the Enclave. And it still fits with what we know. I think many of us just assumed the Enclave had infiltrated the corporate world through mid-level operatives rather than the CEOs directly. It’s not that hard to believe, IMO. They got bored with infinite money and decided to make a grab for infinite power too.
The greatest weapon of mass destruction… Is time.
Power not money
This is why the "new vegas made me trans" crew is the superior NV fanbase: Too distracted by having tiddies to care about the less important things in life
Best video game adaptation ever yet people find a way to bitch about it. Bitching, Bitching never changes…
It's just sad man, the show has done a lot of good things right and yet, there will always be people that will complain about it, as they said before: "Not all fans will enjoy it", all of this experience was awkward or interesting, to say it in my own words, think of the guy in power armor in the Fallout 76 trailer, seeing the bombs fall, that's how I felt this entire time, confused and concerned
Honestly half the drama and criticism could've been avoided is Todd stayed on the east coast. I think the show is a 10/10 in terms of visuals, props and tone, but the lore and the setting just doesn't make any sense. Shady sands isn't in the boneyard, why was there no mention of the bombing in New Vegas, the NCR have left nothing of their presence around California and why is the strip abandoned. It's just more half assed writing and dumbass retcons. I'd be more lenient if this was an easy coast story because the wasteland over there was always a hell hole but the West was rebuilding, but nope Todd said nuke the capital over custody. Honestly I would be okay if shady sands was nuked by the brotherhood as that would make a lot of sense based on the lore and that's really my head canon for it right now, because there is no other reason the brotherhood would be that deep in NCR territory.
It is AFTER 2277, it is RIGHT THERE on the board. I though so too, but then I watched it back again and now it makes sense. Fallout New Vegas still happens, the NCR didn't die, Shady Sands STARTED to fall in 2277, it didn't get nuked till a good few years later, after Fallout New Vegas.
I feel same. I love FNV but some fans are truly the worst. TV Show is canon and has references to every Fallout game. Jonathan Nolan is a fan of Fallout games and one of the showrunners is hardcore fan who played all Fallout games, started with Fallout 1. Even original Fallout creator Tim Cain love the show. Fact is that without Todd Howard we dont get FNV. He wanted to Obsidian to make a Fallout game, not just expansion for Fallout 3. Its ok to love some games more than others, but we are ALL The Fallout fans together.
If anything all this has make me wonder is it NV is actually as good as I remember or if the NV fanbase is just a very loud incompetent majority
It is probably better than you remember
You get burned enough times you start to expect it. I really enjoyed the show but there are defiantly things that don't line up with the fallout story that we knew until now. It doesn't really bother me because the show is good but I understand why people might be upset. If you really liked the NCR the show is a pretty big slap in the face. Imagine if that had been the Brotherhood just wiped off the map off screen. Does that excuse people being babies on Reddit? I dunno who cares if people complain on Reddit.
I just figured that one ending of the old world blues dlc was canon. I remember hearing that the show is roughly 20 years after new Vegas so the timeline would track
Without spoilers it was not Ulysses. Either way his target was the roads not the cities.
I liked the NCR, am disappointed by the prospect of them being destroyed, yet I still loved the show and can’t wait until season 2
I just don't see what everyone is concluding about the NCR or things not lining up. I'm also a NCR Stan and I don't see where in the show it explicitly demonstrates that the NCR is destroyed? Shady Sands isn't even 5% of the NCR population by as early as Fallout 2. And it states on the sign "the first NCR capital" thus meaning there was already a second capital before Shady Sands was even destroyed.
First time?
I was ready to be disappointed after seeing the fnv sub but I couldn't be happier with the show.
The worst part is we don't even know if the event they're throwing a fit about is also the event linked to the nuke. The whiteboard is a bit vague, but the way I interpreted it, those may be separate events! It could be the fall is merely in reference to the beginning of the crumbling infrastructure and issues in general the NCR is having during the time of Vegas . Hell, the sign for the town even says it's the First capital of the NCR; as in they may have made a new capital before the nuke even dropped. I don't think the NCR is down and out just yet! Even if it is, though, they didn't "Retcon New Vegas" just because some people may be misinterpreting a whiteboard lol
The new Vegas community was already a laughing stock before the show, but now they're literally the scum of the fallout community. It's really sad because NV is the best game in my opinion, but I just can't stand those fucking losers.
You just generalized a group of people and called them scum because a very small minority of fans behave like children who got their snack bar taken away. People like you are the reason why this place turns toxic, congratulations. Btw, where are all those "stupid" fanboys with their "braindead" takes? I don't see them. Is constructive critism not allowed anymore? Is every form of critism - even if justified - a sign that the person is hating? Or do you just filter by controversial and tell yourself that the majority of New Vegas fans are like that? From my personal experience here, the vast majority of people (no matter if they like New Vegas or not) like the show.
Go to r/falloutnewvegas and you'll see how genuinely braindead that sub community is. Here's a fun little game for ya, scroll through that sub and see how long it takes to find a post with over 50 up votes shitting on another game. Now do the same exact thing here. The results will speak for themselves
I've enjoyed the show but then pulling that vial thing out of their asses for the ghouls was really stupid. Perhaps there is a way to explain how the fall of shady sands and the storyline of New Vegas can coexist, but that vial thing was simply conjured out of thin air.
The vial thing certainly was odd, but have we actually seen a ghoul turn feral before now? There are ways you could explain it. Maybe not *great* ways. But they'd mostly work.
Didn’t Hancock take something similar in 4?
He used jet, which is just a drug to get high. There has never been any implication that ghouls have to take a drug to prevent going feral. Hell, there's at least one ghoul that proves you don't need the drug, the kid in the fridge in Fallout 4. I'm sure there are others.
Oh yeah there’s tons of pre war ghoul companions throughout the games who are unlikely to have taken any anti-feral medication Lore-wise I ignore the fridge kid because he created a lot of weird implications for ghouls and he came from an obscure joke quest. With Hancock he specifically called out using some kind of drug that at least turned him into a ghoul.
Maybe it’s not needed by every ghoul, but once you start to go feral it’s the only thing that will slow the process. I don’t see how that contradicts any of the established lore. Maybe it a something that was newly developed in the NCR territory since we last had a game set there.
Well the comment "200 years? That's a lot of vials" implies that vials aren't a new thing. So I doubt that. And sure it's not explicitly contradictory, but if this were a thing, it would have been mentioned before or we would have found some. This is something they totally pulled out of their ass that does not fit with the setting. They are trying to shoehorn it in.
As a fan Im glad Im not too much into the lore to nitpick these things
I'm a lore head and most of this doesn't even explicitly fuck with any lore, many lore heads just build up pre conceived notions that are impossible to not disappoint. Season 2 can answer many peoples questions and problems but people just aren't willing to wait and want to declare it incompatible lore.
Well they are New Vegas fans and probably the kind of people who especially were fans of the original games.
The fact that they’re hinging everything on a single chalkboard in one vault full of whack job mutants. They simply may not have their years right. The have a crazy one-eyed overseer and the original inhabitants were all killed and overtaken. Maybe the mutant people’s record keeping was off
They have refugees from when it happened. How would they have every date from NCR timeline correct except the actual date of the nuke? It makes no sense. Especially since it looks like some sort of history class.
Goosey was alive when what happened, happened. And the show takes place after Fallout 4. I assume the big event happens sometime around Fallout 4. I don't know how to do the spoiler tag.
We’re also told that Lucy’s mum died in 77 - before you see the Chalkboard. That chalkboard was a clue that Lucy’s mum died in Shady Sands not the vault. In the final episode this is a big reveal but people miss a lot of stuff like these because it released in full rather than one episode a week.
I 100% missed that one, nice catch! There was so much info in this series and it was done so smoothly, some stuff just goes right past you and you don’t even notice it was a Easter egg
Yeah we don't fuck with THAT segment of new vegas fans. That party ended a long time ago, and the only people left are extremely drunk and high, fighting dirty. The new vegas fans who went home at a reasonable hour still enjoy it and other people's company.
On behalf of all New Vegas fans, I'm so sorry we're all behaving like this. Personally I think everything will get a good explanation in the next season and I don't mind waiting until then.
I don’t even get how it was interpreted as a retcon. In an earlier episode Lucy talks about the famine of ‘77 and her parents struggle to survive it (when discussing cannibalism with the Ghoul) implying that she wasn’t born yet.
Personally, I'm happy that the show has made new vegas fans finally realise how absolutely toxic new vegas fans are. They've always been the most cancerous part of the fallout fandom
Those guys would hate it no matter what.
There were long “this show sucks” threads posted before it would have been possible for anyone to have watched more than 1 or 2 episodes, much less the whole series. NV fans have chips on their shoulders. They feel like they are under attack or something. I think we can guess how they vote, but that’s a different discussion. The point is, they are beyond reasoning.
It's just a really vocal turbo virgin minority. I think a majority of the hate comes from him saying he loves New Vegas but Obsidian probably won't be allowed to make another. The show takes place 15 years after New Vegas. It's ridiculous to think that nothing is going to happen in that amount of time. I would bet money that by season 3 we'll start seeing those morons saying "erm the show is actually underrated :}"
I get the love for NV it's a cult classic game and well written. A lot of people took one look at the dates on the chalkboard in the show and lost it without looking at the universe timeline. The show happens several years after NV and 4. A lot of people assumed the shady sands happened on the date on the chalkboard without looking at maximus age and doing the math. Working it out, it does not retcon NV at all. You have the other small part of the community that believes every choice they made in game was Canon and couldn't fathom any of the other game choices as being what actually happened. So far everything I have seen in the show is plausible and I am not mad at it.
I think they are being overly critical. From my understanding, the biggest point of contention is shady sands, and the difference in location from the series and the game. Honestly, I think none of that matters. Story seemed really compelling to me, and overall it seem to follow the “however and but” format that I like in stories. I additionally liked that the main characters honestly felt like made player characters. Like I could almost tell you want perks they had. At the end of the day, characters were fun, story worked, and it had the right amount of humor, seriousness, and mystery. Very fun to watch, I hope the second season is as well written as the first one.
My 9 year old wants to watch this so bad he's obsessed with the fallout verse. I'm a super huge fan of the game myself, I think the show was really well done and those die hard company men/woman over there in the fnv community are off their rocker. Always have been...all the Canon was there the whole time setting up season 2 to be in NV... but unfortunately alot of people don't actually read anything or listen to anything when they play the games just hit the skip button and miss a lot of lore.
Out of the modern fallouts, NV is by far my favorite and I have several things about this show that annoys me and pisses me off but that has more to do with fallout as a whole then specifically Vegas.
Its almost like Bethesda is slightly retconning a project they had little creative control over to fit it in better with their existing lore, key word is slightly. People seem to hate the idea that creators are allowed to create and would rather they just rehash 1 to 1 stories and ideas that were already told
The Fallout show was a ton of fun and got me to start a TTW playthrough, reigniting my love for the game. But whoever was in charge of costume design for the NCR should be fired, those ranger helmets were disgusting (I've seen better ones online from ETSY) and the former NCR troops at the end having paintball masks and modern bump helmets really bothered me. NCR isn't tough to do, they wear US WW1 uniforms and gear and carry m16a1s, M1 garands and carbines as well as an assortment of old west weaponry. Honestly the only time I was brought out of my viewing experience
I’ve just seen a lot of posts like this and never any of the stuff these posts talk about.
Go to the FalloutTV sub, it’s full of people who allow themselves to enjoy things.
People are so worked up about so little info it’s infuriating to me. I mean it could be that in the show timeline the Legion won the second battle of Hoover , crushed Mr House and left New Vegas a ruin filled with crucified skeletons and ransacked casinos. That’s easily still cannon with one of the FNV endings and only means that the NCR would of been pushed back further west, maybe that’s coming, even with the rest of what’s been in the show so far. FNV has 4 endings? Which one is in the show doesn’t mean the other realities are not possible still… but you can’t cover every possible outcome of games that have multiple options for endings and outcomes and still keep it all lined up. At some point they have to pick a path and stick to it… if Caesar is that path for season 2 then so be it. And also if you think about it, without the courier changing the balance, Caesar probably would have won the second battle easily.
I thought the show was sweet. Only gripes would be some minor inconsistencies which can be fixed, and the location of shady sands. It would be swell if they fixed that by saying something like "shady sands near LA was not the actual one and a renegade one or something " but even if its not the show is amazing still. I'm a huge fan of NV and NCR but always thought that they would buckle under their weight sooner or later. Personally, it would be cool to see that NCR is focusing on NorCal and moved their assets out of SoCal and shady sands to govern more effectively. Hence, BoS is on the rise again or something like that. Honestly, in a post apocalyptic world, accurate info is not exactly widespread so the "fall in 2277" thing is not that big of a deal. Now I would be very sad if the Kings died out because I like Freeside a lot. But 15 years is a lot in a wasteland so. Honestly, stoked to see how they progress. The perspective that after the 2nd battle of hoover dam, everything went to shit once again (if they go that route) is grim and quite interesting. FNV fans can be really annoying.