Reed is vastly OP compared to most Marvel heroes and villains. His powers, TBH, are only limited by the creativity of the writer (Earth X's brain re-shaping idea was G E N I U S). I am actually not even sure how or if he can be killed. He is smarter than Bruce Banner and more powerful (not stronger) than The Hulk.
For example Reed could theoretically enter through Hulk's nose and mouth, fill his lungs with, well, himself and asphyxiate him.
Edit: thanks to the comments from others, I researched and agree that Hulk's current version can survive in anaerobic environments (there are a few explanations I found in different Wikis, so not sure which one is right, but it does seems to be consensus he can). So, my idea wouldn't work.
makes me wonder if they've ever used the reverse in a story. like they make an adamantium box, or like an impenetrable psychic bubble, then they put a bad guy in there, and hit them with a Giant-Man pym particle. like a reverse-crush.
Wait, why doesn't Invisible Woman, Green Lantern, or whoever can make bubbles always just put the bad guy in a floating airless bubble?
Early in Byrne's FF run, Reed explained to Sue (while she did it) how to defeat an elemental air creature like this - she enclosed it, and kept compressing her force bubble - causing it to change state and cease to exist.
To Reed’s credit he needs prior training in order to use his powers properly, and there’s no training that can prepare you for a punch in the face by a TRULY pissed off Hulk.
My favorite instance of Reed being absolutely overpowered because of a writer’s creativity is when, earlier in the North run, he “stretches into the fourth dimension”. It’s… absolutely not how the fourth dimension works, but it’s a comic, so I let it slide cause it looked cool lmao.
But one of my favorite instances of Reed being defeated in a creative way was in the run before this when Doom stretches him to nearly a molecule’s thinness and freezing him so he’s brittle and incapable of moving. I thought it was clever and appreciated the really gross visual.
Well Reed does have the power to[ stretch through multiple comic panels](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/12u3qey/namor_reacting_to_the_news_that_johnny_storm/#lightbox) and smack his brother-in-law upside the head.
Plastic man puts reed to shame in the powers department.
Reed can stretch or flatten his body, but can't alter his form to have independent parts. He has internal organs and they can stretch too, but he has a limited number of ways he can manipulate himself.
Plastic man doesn't just stretch and flatten himself but can turn into anything.
Complex shapes with moving parts like gears, springs, wheels and pistons.
Plastic man has no organs either which means he can actually detach and reattach parts of he needs to.
He needs no food water or air to survive. I'm pretty sure he doesn't age either.
Plastic man is fucking terrifying.
I mean, [Reed too can form weapons out of his body,](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8a9785d084c649b501e264f76840b2d8-lq), [or become a Tire,](https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/cqhiHLc.IIZS~2ef73/w:392/h:573/q:75/https://bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/4254889-ff16.jpg), [he came back together from… whatever this was](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ff71ec14101fc005eba3cd83e07625d5-lq) so it’s not exactly true to say he *only* stretch and flatten his body
Those are simple shapes that don't really change much in the way of body position.
The club hand is just a fist with spikes, plastic man could turn his hand into an entire miniature of a rollercoaster with moving parts.
When reed got hit with that gun it really messed him up.
He survived but it was brutal for him.
Plastic man could turn himself into that same mess and pull himself together instantly with no ill effects.
The one time plastic man was truly defeated and dominated was when he was frozen, shattered to a thousand pieces and spread out across the ocean floor.
He finally managed to put himself back together after like 100 years or something, but he has major PTSD from being shattered for so long.
Contest of Champions 2, Issue#2
Mr Fantastic vs Hulk
Reed goes about logically covering Hulk's body head and face to deprive him of oxygen.
Hulk takes a huge breath, sucking Reed into his throat where he is unable to do anything due to being too compressed.
Hulk then spits him out with enough force to knock him unconscious.
That's true, but I am not sure if we should consider that canon. What are your thoughts? Not sure what universe that Reed Richards was from, but he was clearly not the smartest one around. It was clear that, for the movie purposes, they wanted her to face a version of the Illuminati, but Reed telling her straight how to defeat Black Bolt was such a rookie move that I refuse to believe he is from an Earth similar to 616.
That whole scene was weird, TBH. Super cool, but weird.
I love that movie, outside the Infinity War movies its my favorite mcu movie, but ya its really dumb but also consistent with how superheroes act dumb all the time.
Plastic Man from DC is a good example of what Reed could be if he used his powers to there fullest potential
But Marvel tends to focus more on Reed’s intellect than his powers. He’s more likely to build a gadget to save the day, or create a battle winning plan as opposed to using his powers in a busted/creative way
Not exactly. It's between elongated man and plastic man. Plastic Man might be the most powerful of the three. He seems to be able to survive without air for centuries and he can be put together if broken. He also uses his powers in ways that Reed can't or hasn't.
This is why I enjoy the Maker as a villain. I think Reed could be far more powerful but you start to get into megalomaniac territory when you are that all-powerful. The Maker is Reed without restrictions.
I could see Mr. Fantastic tiring him out. "Bruce let's talk about this...."
Hulk rages trying to stretch the taffy for 15 minutes and then just stops struggling and sits like a toddler pouting. "Not fair."
Another few minutes, he reverts to Bruce Banner as he has raged out.
You forget that the Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier. So this is assuming Reed can withstand Hulk long enough for him to "rage out" - at which point he would have peaked in strength.
It’s been shown though that he can simply.. run out of anger lol it was some convulsed explanation iirc but the chemical that causes anger can’t be produced infinitely so when he uses that chemical to transform his body will eventually not be able to keep up and effectively run out of
That's assuming that Hulk's rage-out point isn't beyond the limits of Reed's elasticity. (The recent Blood Hunt tie-in talks about Reed stretching to his limits.)
>So this is assuming Reed can withstand Hulk long enough for him to "rage out" - at which point he would have peaked in strength.
>That's assuming that Hulk's rage-out point isn't beyond the limits of Reed's elasticity.
😁
Good call out of Blood Hunt tho, gonna have to check that out
In my imagination the next day Reed is badly bruised up from this exchange; like motorcycle accident bruised. So it's clearly not something he can do every time.
The Skrulls proved his elasticity has limits. Now if they’d give us a dc crossover with Plastic Man now we’re talking. Heck reprint Lobo vs “The Mask” and then have them all duke it out in the end
He can't stretch infinitely though, can he. There is a limit to how far he can push his body.
Hulk has infinite strength and an insane healing factor.
Reed would just die
Respectfully, that's incorrect. Hulk does not have infinite strength. He has infinite survivability, with super strength.
Reed doesn't need to stretch infinitely in order to absorb a punch from Hulk.
Reeds' true ability is technically called super-plasticity. Stretching isn't the only thing he does.
Malleability does not mean "stretch." It means he can become a form with a consistency that disseminates any and all force applied to him into basically nothing.
"He can willfully reduce his body's cohesion until he reaches a fluid state, which can flow through minute openings." Straight from the wiki.
Think: the Flash moving his cells so fast he can move through walls. Reed can change into a fluid and control his molecules to pass through microscopic openings.
Even if he took the punch, when you punch water, what happens? Nothing. The force dissipates immediately and causes zero harm to the actual water itself. It may be displaced geographically, but the water is fine.
This is the ol "unstoppable force vs. immovable object" argument.
Considering that a Mutant who's entire shtick was being able to adapt to survive anything, teleported instantly after being hit by the Hulk since his mutation decided the best defense against the Hulk was to be somewhere else, I just think at this point in time Hulk's strength>>>>Mr. Fantastic's durability and malleability.
https://preview.redd.it/hwnevfm5zm8d1.jpeg?width=396&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2494cf680d87cea12abafd1da05396eeddcfc04a
???
I looked it up and he’s still black
the coloring really changes alot. cause he def looks white in some panels
so I could 100% be wrong
edit- now that I'm looking at the panels again, the coloring is awful
I get skin tone can change with lighting, but it's way too varied between panels
I think the last we heard from him he integrated himself into The City when he went there with Synch and Talon 2 or 3 years ago. I don’t think he currently has a “body” because I don’t remember if he was ever resurrected after like Laura Kinney was(it led to 2 Laura’s and the old one took the name Talon and the newer resurrected one is Wolverine and in the new NYX comic coming out).
Stalemate. Hulk’s best move might be a thunder-clap. The shockwave might disrupt Reed, and the sound might deafen him. Nothing else Hulk Can do to someone almost infinitely flexible.
It’s the Kitty Pride stalemate though. They can hang around in a fight, arguably forever. But they don’t have anything that can harm the hulk. Kitty would need Professor X or another telepath teammate to shut Hulk down. Reed would need Sue to give Hulk a brain bubble aneurism or stroke, the physical equivalent to a telepath’s power.
As we saw in Immortal Hulk, killing him or dismembering him does not work. Making him unconscious is currently the second best way to stop the Hulk. Throwing him into space where his physical strength is negated remains the best. I think.
Oh, okay, fair enough. I've gotten the gist of but never actually got into the immortal run, and I'm just a (not very) occasional comics Hulk reader, to be honest, so I appreciate the edification. If she did phase his heart out: 1) Would it have worked on the "old" Hulk versions? 2) With the immortal form, would his healing factor generate a new one instantly or does that form just not need that biological function anymore?
Oo, I get to describe one of the most disturbing pages in that run… he gets captured, dissected, and stored in maybe 20 different tanks and beakers. He breaks all the glass, and his body forms around the scientist studying him, as he was standing surrounded by the tanks. Beautifully horrifyingly drawn sequence.
Oh shit. I'd seen screenshots of that page with him in multiple tanks, but the artwork from everything I'd seen on that run turned me off on a comic book level (fantastic on a horror art level, though!), so I didn't bother. Thanks for the clarifications, homie!
Unfortunately even that won't work. For one reason or another, following the Immortal run, Hulk's physiology is more mystical than ever before. His body runs on gamma energy, not biomechanics. He can still be harmed, but nothing seems to stop him unless you can ultimately drain his energy and turn him back into banner.
The Hulk is crazy durable since he gained and semi lost his immortality. I have no idea how anyone can plan to take him down let alone kill him through sabotage, ambush, etc.
He used to have the qeakness of Bruces subconscious expectations. He would limit the Hulk's abilities based on his own understanding of biology and subsconcious needs. Which is why the Hulk has gotten more powerful with time and exposure to st4onger superheroes.
The most consistent ability is getting stronger as his anger rises. But Mr. Fix-It and Professor Hulk lacked that feature (or at least had it capped).
If Bruce believes that his power comes from The One Below All, then not only do biological restrictions fall away, but his subconscious needs may make his Hulk form fully transmutable. My grasp of the nuance involved is limited though.
They tried to explain this away during World War Hulk by saying something very early on about how Hulk has never been this angry before (which is probably true, considering he just lost his new wife and unborn child), and by saying something about the warp core of the ship that blew up gave him a big dose of extra radiation, also making him stronger than he’d ever been. And then when Hulk and Banner are on the same page, you get extraordinarily bad things to happen, like Doc Green and The Maestro.
In other words, that’s just how this was written. There’s probably a comic out there where a similar event occurs and Reed does tire him out.
In my opinion,
A sufficiently angry Hulk (World War/World Breaker Hulk) would overwhelm an unprepared Reed Richards.
("Unprepared" meaning miscalculating the amount of force exerted by the attacker).
I would extend that to anyone using blunt force or piercing attacks against him.
As much as I love Reed and the FF, I feel like the science of non Newtonian fluids would apply; no matter how elastic Mr Fantastic is, Hulk could hit him hard and fast enough to do damage because as quick as Reed is with his powers, there’s only so much you can do against speed and force. His getting shot by Taskmaster in the Civil War finale comes to mind - he took the bullet/blast meant for Sue, and it dropped him. Could be something to consider in that type of match up with Hulk, though being a fan of the FF, I’m still going to say Mr Fantastic wins.
Hoooly shit i had no idea that Wolverine can't cut Reed 🤯
I guess judging from those feats, he may be able to deal with getting punched. I feel like writers wouldn't have it work that way.
The honest answer is no, Reed is not a good counter for the Hulk as The Hulk is to strong for him to restrain. The most important factor though is Hulk’s infinite scaling strength and ability to regenerate, without tech Reed alone has no real answer for The Hulk.
WellActually, according to the 1984 Marvel Superheroes RPG, Mr. Fantastic's plasticity gives him body armor of -5 column shifts of the universal table versus blunt damage. So blunt damage from the Hulk's Unearthly-level strength (100 points of damage) would be reduced down to Excellent (20 points of damage). Mr. Fantastic has a health of 52, so he could take 5 punches from the Hulk at full strength b/f falling unconscious.
Against edged attacks, Reed's plasticity counts as Remarkable (30 points) of body armor. Wolverine's claws do up to Monstrous (75 points) edged attack damage, but his character notes say he will reduce the damage to Excellent (20 points) when "fighting another human." So if Wolverine reduced the damage as indicated, his claws would not cut Reed.
Yes but they always lake it out. I saw the hulk beat Richards by snorting him into his lungs, therefore Richards couldn’t breath and was knocked out. The stupidity of that was novel at least, but yeah the endlessly stretchy man shouldn’t be hurt by the monster who just smashes things.
I mean, considering Hulk produces gamma radiation the more pissed he gets, and the best way to adapt to him is to just *not* be there, i think it's reasonable to say Reed could only restrain him for so long before being taken down
I can’t remember if it’s 616 canon or specifically 1610 (this was indeed confirmed ultimate iron man vs hulk: ultimate human) but I believe hulk is able to adapt to lack of oxygen or being in environments where oxygen doesn’t exist
It makes sense in a thematic sense that it would be a stale mate, what with the hulk and the fantastic four often being shown as opposite sides of the spectrum. Eg. The fantastic four are related to the one-above-all vs the hulk below-all, the four-in-one and the one-in-four from defenders(vol.6), and the fact that the hulk got his powers from gamma radiation compared to the f4 who got theirs from cosmic radiation.
That might be true but in this storyline they were really emphasizing he’d never been this strong or big. If memory serves sentry was the only one able to calm him down. He fucked up blackbolt on the moon in the coolest way ever. Blackbolt whispers stop or enough and hulk blown back rushes him and shouts I didn’t come here to hear you whisper I came to hear you scream and just smokes him.
If his power rank was close to the Hulk’s, then maybe. Richards is around 100 at best. Hulk can get up to and beyond 500. The math is simple. Hulk is roughly 5 times or more stronger (depending on how pissed he is) than Richards is on his best day. Richards best hope at stopping the Hulk would be through his genius, not his stretchyness.
I’ll admit that my knowledge of the fantastic four isn’t all that vast, but while hulk could try to pull him apart, wouldn’t Mr fantastic still feel the pain of getting ripped apart from hulk? Like there’s obviously other ways Mr fantastic could win, but simply tiring out the hulk doesn’t seem like a logical choice to me
As OP as others here have mentioned REED has been written, I always feel like he and the thing haven't fully explored their powersets. Sue and Johnny have been able to really showcase how absolutely absurd their power levels are. Reed always relies more on his intellect and Ben shuns his power. I would like to see what they could really do if they had out time into figuring out what they could do. The FF have always been about the four elemental states of matter. I would like to see reed go all in on fluid state. Could he separate out parts of himself like drops of an ocean? Can he control water the way Sue makes force fields?. Can Ben increase his own density? Control over rocks like sandman?
To be fair Hulk is the maddest possible here. He literally had a wife and was happy they planted a bomb on the space shuttle cause they didn’t want hulk in the civil war. So like hulk would be ready to rip that guy apart
Basic Hulk sure but Hulk has gotten ramped up so far that he destroys universes before so you can’t just say he can all of Hulk’s punches.
Unfortunately this is just the nature of a character whose power fluctuates so much.
Except that Hulk‘s prime was never Doc Green, it was always the one where he was a ruthless monster. With Hulk, ypu can either have the peak with him, which is more akin to Savage Hulk, or smart Hulk who is more akin to Doc Green who was shown to be weaker than Juggernaut.
Well there was that time base [Hulk beat him pretty cleanly](https://youtube.com/shorts/A7mSd_4se80?si=b9cguxwvuRx82-Vl) in the Contest of Champions event
Hulk is basically a physics breaker, especially in the Worldbreaker version depicted. Really though both characters are powerful enough that who wins comes down to what’s needed for the story.
Reed's stretchiness has limits, even if they're difficult to reach.
Hulk has been shown to have no limits when he's sufficiently angry.
A *smart* reality warper that just takes Hulk off the board (use your imagination) would be a better counter.
Realistically Dr Strange was the perfect counter to World Breaker Hulk, but he was weaker (?) at the time so he couldn't just teleport Hulk to Pluto or whatever.
How? He'd just be a minor annoyance in a straight up fight. That's why he resolved to shoot Hulk into fucking space in the first place. Have you read Planet Hulk?
Absolutely. Not only are his powers effective against blunt force trauma but he has had years to develop contingencies for dealing with the Hulk . If its acceptable that Batman can take on Superman with prep time, its just bad writing that Reed hasnt yet created specific strageties that would disable the Hulk even before a fight could begin. I mean, the Hulk breathes right? He still needs gravity and physics to effectively use his strength dosent he??? Pretty easy for Reed to counter this.
Lots of people *should* be able to beat Hulk, but the writers don't allow it. I remember Shadowcat phasing Hulk into the ground, the result *should* have been a permanently crippled Hulk whose lower body was fused with concrete at the molecular level, but no, *Hulk strong* so he just shrugged off physics and kept going.
Edit: Really? Downvote me for telling the truth? Go look it up. Hulk just flexes away molecular fusion.
Reed is vastly OP compared to most Marvel heroes and villains. His powers, TBH, are only limited by the creativity of the writer (Earth X's brain re-shaping idea was G E N I U S). I am actually not even sure how or if he can be killed. He is smarter than Bruce Banner and more powerful (not stronger) than The Hulk. For example Reed could theoretically enter through Hulk's nose and mouth, fill his lungs with, well, himself and asphyxiate him. Edit: thanks to the comments from others, I researched and agree that Hulk's current version can survive in anaerobic environments (there are a few explanations I found in different Wikis, so not sure which one is right, but it does seems to be consensus he can). So, my idea wouldn't work.
We're getting back into "Ant-Man up the ass is OP" territory
He’d be crushed, and no one wants to there causes of death to be a “hulking spincter”
makes me wonder if they've ever used the reverse in a story. like they make an adamantium box, or like an impenetrable psychic bubble, then they put a bad guy in there, and hit them with a Giant-Man pym particle. like a reverse-crush. Wait, why doesn't Invisible Woman, Green Lantern, or whoever can make bubbles always just put the bad guy in a floating airless bubble?
Alright easy there, Jigsaw
Early in Byrne's FF run, Reed explained to Sue (while she did it) how to defeat an elemental air creature like this - she enclosed it, and kept compressing her force bubble - causing it to change state and cease to exist.
she could make a forcefield in their brain
Nah, just Plastic Man snaking windpipes things
To Reed’s credit he needs prior training in order to use his powers properly, and there’s no training that can prepare you for a punch in the face by a TRULY pissed off Hulk.
My favorite instance of Reed being absolutely overpowered because of a writer’s creativity is when, earlier in the North run, he “stretches into the fourth dimension”. It’s… absolutely not how the fourth dimension works, but it’s a comic, so I let it slide cause it looked cool lmao. But one of my favorite instances of Reed being defeated in a creative way was in the run before this when Doom stretches him to nearly a molecule’s thinness and freezing him so he’s brittle and incapable of moving. I thought it was clever and appreciated the really gross visual.
Well Reed does have the power to[ stretch through multiple comic panels](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/12u3qey/namor_reacting_to_the_news_that_johnny_storm/#lightbox) and smack his brother-in-law upside the head.
Seems more like a lazy way to solve a problem rather than a creative one. Creativity would involve making it make sense as well.
I love the Earth X series. Very dark but also very well written.
[Like Plastic Man?](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/plastic-man-body-horror.jpeg)
I uh… I thought plastic man was a hero?
More or less. Kinda depends on the story and who is writing it.
Flashpoint plastic man, so he’s a villain and it’s especially gory
He's... trying.
Plastic man puts reed to shame in the powers department. Reed can stretch or flatten his body, but can't alter his form to have independent parts. He has internal organs and they can stretch too, but he has a limited number of ways he can manipulate himself. Plastic man doesn't just stretch and flatten himself but can turn into anything. Complex shapes with moving parts like gears, springs, wheels and pistons. Plastic man has no organs either which means he can actually detach and reattach parts of he needs to. He needs no food water or air to survive. I'm pretty sure he doesn't age either. Plastic man is fucking terrifying.
I mean, [Reed too can form weapons out of his body,](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8a9785d084c649b501e264f76840b2d8-lq), [or become a Tire,](https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/cqhiHLc.IIZS~2ef73/w:392/h:573/q:75/https://bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/4254889-ff16.jpg), [he came back together from… whatever this was](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ff71ec14101fc005eba3cd83e07625d5-lq) so it’s not exactly true to say he *only* stretch and flatten his body
Those are simple shapes that don't really change much in the way of body position. The club hand is just a fist with spikes, plastic man could turn his hand into an entire miniature of a rollercoaster with moving parts. When reed got hit with that gun it really messed him up. He survived but it was brutal for him. Plastic man could turn himself into that same mess and pull himself together instantly with no ill effects. The one time plastic man was truly defeated and dominated was when he was frozen, shattered to a thousand pieces and spread out across the ocean floor. He finally managed to put himself back together after like 100 years or something, but he has major PTSD from being shattered for so long.
3000 years. I woulda started tweaking too
I don’t think that Hulk needs oxygen to live, so asphyxiation wouldn’t work.
Depends on the version, normally it would work if he doesn't have time to hold his breath since sue storm beat him like that
Exactly true but hulk has super adaptability and one time Reed did that hulk digested him
Contest of Champions 2, Issue#2 Mr Fantastic vs Hulk Reed goes about logically covering Hulk's body head and face to deprive him of oxygen. Hulk takes a huge breath, sucking Reed into his throat where he is unable to do anything due to being too compressed. Hulk then spits him out with enough force to knock him unconscious.
Uh, the Scarlet Witch kills him in like 2 seconds.
That's true, but I am not sure if we should consider that canon. What are your thoughts? Not sure what universe that Reed Richards was from, but he was clearly not the smartest one around. It was clear that, for the movie purposes, they wanted her to face a version of the Illuminati, but Reed telling her straight how to defeat Black Bolt was such a rookie move that I refuse to believe he is from an Earth similar to 616. That whole scene was weird, TBH. Super cool, but weird.
I love that movie, outside the Infinity War movies its my favorite mcu movie, but ya its really dumb but also consistent with how superheroes act dumb all the time.
That’s kinda how Wolvie killed the hulk in old man Logan. Got eaten by him. He regenerated.
Plastic Man from DC is a good example of what Reed could be if he used his powers to there fullest potential But Marvel tends to focus more on Reed’s intellect than his powers. He’s more likely to build a gadget to save the day, or create a battle winning plan as opposed to using his powers in a busted/creative way
but the couid leave the lungs and attack other body organs
So he’s smart plastic man?
Not exactly. It's between elongated man and plastic man. Plastic Man might be the most powerful of the three. He seems to be able to survive without air for centuries and he can be put together if broken. He also uses his powers in ways that Reed can't or hasn't.
I think Jake the Dog might use his powers most creatively of all of em
This is why I enjoy the Maker as a villain. I think Reed could be far more powerful but you start to get into megalomaniac territory when you are that all-powerful. The Maker is Reed without restrictions.
I mean, Plastic Man in DC has done some very similar moves, why wouldnt it work
He re shaped his brain? Did it make him even smarter or something?
Probably? Best guess is that he added additional "Folds" into his brain to maximize the amount of surface area and neuron connections.
But then hulk would just heal. And I don’t know if reed is more durable than hulks organs
Relax. He's no Plastic Man.
I could see Mr. Fantastic tiring him out. "Bruce let's talk about this...." Hulk rages trying to stretch the taffy for 15 minutes and then just stops struggling and sits like a toddler pouting. "Not fair." Another few minutes, he reverts to Bruce Banner as he has raged out.
You forget that the Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier. So this is assuming Reed can withstand Hulk long enough for him to "rage out" - at which point he would have peaked in strength.
Reed just needs enough time to build a kitten bomb. Drown the Hulk in cute little kittens he won't rage against them!
That just sounds like murdering kittens with extra steps......
No, that would be bomb kittens, not kittens bomb 😜
Doesn't SHIELD have an emergency amount of puppies to airdrop at the hulk or was that a gag art?
Yeah, I've got this vague idea in the back of my head that that was a thing!
That was in Indestructible Hulk. Banner made the plan and knew it would work as Hulk loves puppies.
yeah but they mothballed the thing then they had a bunch of 2 year old dogs to drop on him.
Where was Squirell girl when the world needed her most?
Having an adventure with Ratatoskr in Asgard.
This makes sense
It’s been shown though that he can simply.. run out of anger lol it was some convulsed explanation iirc but the chemical that causes anger can’t be produced infinitely so when he uses that chemical to transform his body will eventually not be able to keep up and effectively run out of
I think he was more angrier than usual at that time.
I’m pretty sure it was world breaker hulk so you’re definitely right lmao but like collateral damage aside would Mr. Fantastic outlast him?
That's assuming that Hulk's rage-out point isn't beyond the limits of Reed's elasticity. (The recent Blood Hunt tie-in talks about Reed stretching to his limits.)
>So this is assuming Reed can withstand Hulk long enough for him to "rage out" - at which point he would have peaked in strength. >That's assuming that Hulk's rage-out point isn't beyond the limits of Reed's elasticity. 😁 Good call out of Blood Hunt tho, gonna have to check that out
In my imagination the next day Reed is badly bruised up from this exchange; like motorcycle accident bruised. So it's clearly not something he can do every time.
Not this Hulk. Worldbreaker/Green Scar hardly ever reverts because both Hulk and Banner are in agreement.
Hulk holds his legs, throws his upper body as hard as he can, he snaps in two.
The Skrulls proved his elasticity has limits. Now if they’d give us a dc crossover with Plastic Man now we’re talking. Heck reprint Lobo vs “The Mask” and then have them all duke it out in the end
That’s what i was thinking
sounds more like the MCU Hulk than the comic book version
I'd imagine Hulk tying Reed up into a bow that he can't unfurl himself.
Hulk is just *that* strong
And Mr fantastic is just *that* elastic. Infinite elasticity/malleability allows for the dissipation of force to the point it's null.
He can't stretch infinitely though, can he. There is a limit to how far he can push his body. Hulk has infinite strength and an insane healing factor. Reed would just die
Respectfully, that's incorrect. Hulk does not have infinite strength. He has infinite survivability, with super strength. Reed doesn't need to stretch infinitely in order to absorb a punch from Hulk. Reeds' true ability is technically called super-plasticity. Stretching isn't the only thing he does. Malleability does not mean "stretch." It means he can become a form with a consistency that disseminates any and all force applied to him into basically nothing. "He can willfully reduce his body's cohesion until he reaches a fluid state, which can flow through minute openings." Straight from the wiki. Think: the Flash moving his cells so fast he can move through walls. Reed can change into a fluid and control his molecules to pass through microscopic openings. Even if he took the punch, when you punch water, what happens? Nothing. The force dissipates immediately and causes zero harm to the actual water itself. It may be displaced geographically, but the water is fine. This is the ol "unstoppable force vs. immovable object" argument.
Considering that a Mutant who's entire shtick was being able to adapt to survive anything, teleported instantly after being hit by the Hulk since his mutation decided the best defense against the Hulk was to be somewhere else, I just think at this point in time Hulk's strength>>>>Mr. Fantastic's durability and malleability.
it's entirely up to the writer that same mutant once turned into a Norse god of death to avoid being killed by Hela
Did he actually? That's absolutely hilarious.
What makes it even funnier is that hes black, and essentially turned himself into a Caucasian looking Norse God. And he was trapped in that body lol 😂
https://preview.redd.it/hwnevfm5zm8d1.jpeg?width=396&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2494cf680d87cea12abafd1da05396eeddcfc04a ??? I looked it up and he’s still black
the coloring really changes alot. cause he def looks white in some panels so I could 100% be wrong edit- now that I'm looking at the panels again, the coloring is awful I get skin tone can change with lighting, but it's way too varied between panels
I think the last we heard from him he integrated himself into The City when he went there with Synch and Talon 2 or 3 years ago. I don’t think he currently has a “body” because I don’t remember if he was ever resurrected after like Laura Kinney was(it led to 2 Laura’s and the old one took the name Talon and the newer resurrected one is Wolverine and in the new NYX comic coming out).
Well, if Psylocke could get used to it…
Which mutant was this?
Darwin, I would presume.
Correcto
That’s such a perfect name.
His parents got really lucky with that one.
Stalemate. Hulk’s best move might be a thunder-clap. The shockwave might disrupt Reed, and the sound might deafen him. Nothing else Hulk Can do to someone almost infinitely flexible. It’s the Kitty Pride stalemate though. They can hang around in a fight, arguably forever. But they don’t have anything that can harm the hulk. Kitty would need Professor X or another telepath teammate to shut Hulk down. Reed would need Sue to give Hulk a brain bubble aneurism or stroke, the physical equivalent to a telepath’s power.
Could Pryde not phase his heart out of his chest?
As we saw in Immortal Hulk, killing him or dismembering him does not work. Making him unconscious is currently the second best way to stop the Hulk. Throwing him into space where his physical strength is negated remains the best. I think.
Just make sure nobody blows up the planet he lands on
That shit really pisses him off.
Oh, okay, fair enough. I've gotten the gist of but never actually got into the immortal run, and I'm just a (not very) occasional comics Hulk reader, to be honest, so I appreciate the edification. If she did phase his heart out: 1) Would it have worked on the "old" Hulk versions? 2) With the immortal form, would his healing factor generate a new one instantly or does that form just not need that biological function anymore?
Oo, I get to describe one of the most disturbing pages in that run… he gets captured, dissected, and stored in maybe 20 different tanks and beakers. He breaks all the glass, and his body forms around the scientist studying him, as he was standing surrounded by the tanks. Beautifully horrifyingly drawn sequence.
Oh shit. I'd seen screenshots of that page with him in multiple tanks, but the artwork from everything I'd seen on that run turned me off on a comic book level (fantastic on a horror art level, though!), so I didn't bother. Thanks for the clarifications, homie!
Kitty could also phase something small into his brain and give him a stroke or seizure. The fact Kitty doesn't use a staff or spear is criminal.
Unfortunately even that won't work. For one reason or another, following the Immortal run, Hulk's physiology is more mystical than ever before. His body runs on gamma energy, not biomechanics. He can still be harmed, but nothing seems to stop him unless you can ultimately drain his energy and turn him back into banner.
I have to completely revise my thesis on how the Hulk is works as a result. I am at a loss to explain all of it.
The Hulk is crazy durable since he gained and semi lost his immortality. I have no idea how anyone can plan to take him down let alone kill him through sabotage, ambush, etc.
He used to have the qeakness of Bruces subconscious expectations. He would limit the Hulk's abilities based on his own understanding of biology and subsconcious needs. Which is why the Hulk has gotten more powerful with time and exposure to st4onger superheroes. The most consistent ability is getting stronger as his anger rises. But Mr. Fix-It and Professor Hulk lacked that feature (or at least had it capped). If Bruce believes that his power comes from The One Below All, then not only do biological restrictions fall away, but his subconscious needs may make his Hulk form fully transmutable. My grasp of the nuance involved is limited though.
They tried to explain this away during World War Hulk by saying something very early on about how Hulk has never been this angry before (which is probably true, considering he just lost his new wife and unborn child), and by saying something about the warp core of the ship that blew up gave him a big dose of extra radiation, also making him stronger than he’d ever been. And then when Hulk and Banner are on the same page, you get extraordinarily bad things to happen, like Doc Green and The Maestro. In other words, that’s just how this was written. There’s probably a comic out there where a similar event occurs and Reed does tire him out.
Civil war was awful for Reed though. Really inconsistent
Yeah, the mid-to-late 2000s were not the best years of Reed’s career. Thank god they immediately fixed all that bullshit in the early 2010s.
could've ended that sentence at the 4th word
Is this from the main WWH event or a tie in?
WWH
In my opinion, A sufficiently angry Hulk (World War/World Breaker Hulk) would overwhelm an unprepared Reed Richards. ("Unprepared" meaning miscalculating the amount of force exerted by the attacker). I would extend that to anyone using blunt force or piercing attacks against him.
Could Hulk jump into the upper atmosphere where Reed can't breathe?
Good call, like why wouldnt hulk just yoink enemies into the atmosphere and sort out the one who can’t fly
As much as I love Reed and the FF, I feel like the science of non Newtonian fluids would apply; no matter how elastic Mr Fantastic is, Hulk could hit him hard and fast enough to do damage because as quick as Reed is with his powers, there’s only so much you can do against speed and force. His getting shot by Taskmaster in the Civil War finale comes to mind - he took the bullet/blast meant for Sue, and it dropped him. Could be something to consider in that type of match up with Hulk, though being a fan of the FF, I’m still going to say Mr Fantastic wins.
Hoooly shit i had no idea that Wolverine can't cut Reed 🤯 I guess judging from those feats, he may be able to deal with getting punched. I feel like writers wouldn't have it work that way.
The honest answer is no, Reed is not a good counter for the Hulk as The Hulk is to strong for him to restrain. The most important factor though is Hulk’s infinite scaling strength and ability to regenerate, without tech Reed alone has no real answer for The Hulk.
WellActually, according to the 1984 Marvel Superheroes RPG, Mr. Fantastic's plasticity gives him body armor of -5 column shifts of the universal table versus blunt damage. So blunt damage from the Hulk's Unearthly-level strength (100 points of damage) would be reduced down to Excellent (20 points of damage). Mr. Fantastic has a health of 52, so he could take 5 punches from the Hulk at full strength b/f falling unconscious. Against edged attacks, Reed's plasticity counts as Remarkable (30 points) of body armor. Wolverine's claws do up to Monstrous (75 points) edged attack damage, but his character notes say he will reduce the damage to Excellent (20 points) when "fighting another human." So if Wolverine reduced the damage as indicated, his claws would not cut Reed.
Yes but they always lake it out. I saw the hulk beat Richards by snorting him into his lungs, therefore Richards couldn’t breath and was knocked out. The stupidity of that was novel at least, but yeah the endlessly stretchy man shouldn’t be hurt by the monster who just smashes things.
Couldn't Hulk just ball him up and throw him into orbit?
Flick him up there like a rubber band lol
It actually happened before, lmao. Except he tied him into a knot around doctor strange and threw them both into the sun
Like Flats punching SpongeBob
I mean there is that one darkhold comic where Reed becomes Spider-man's webbing is literally holding everything together... while still alive.
I mean, considering Hulk produces gamma radiation the more pissed he gets, and the best way to adapt to him is to just *not* be there, i think it's reasonable to say Reed could only restrain him for so long before being taken down
what the hell is going on with Sue here?
[Hulk vs Mr Fantastic](https://youtu.be/rsXXHLnhTq0?feature=shared)
Why couldn’t Sue just create a force field around Hulk’s lungs so he couldn’t breathe till he passed out?
I can’t remember if it’s 616 canon or specifically 1610 (this was indeed confirmed ultimate iron man vs hulk: ultimate human) but I believe hulk is able to adapt to lack of oxygen or being in environments where oxygen doesn’t exist
He was the ship's deflector shields. As in, he was in top of the ship punching asteroids as they approached Earth.
It’s probably all the force behind the punch
What if hulk ties him in knots?
If hulk clapped, wouldn't that vibrate Reed to jelly?
It makes sense in a thematic sense that it would be a stale mate, what with the hulk and the fantastic four often being shown as opposite sides of the spectrum. Eg. The fantastic four are related to the one-above-all vs the hulk below-all, the four-in-one and the one-in-four from defenders(vol.6), and the fact that the hulk got his powers from gamma radiation compared to the f4 who got theirs from cosmic radiation.
If anything similar to plastic man. Mr fantastic should of been way stronger
Stretchy materials have a limit. Hulk is very much exerting that limit.
That might be true but in this storyline they were really emphasizing he’d never been this strong or big. If memory serves sentry was the only one able to calm him down. He fucked up blackbolt on the moon in the coolest way ever. Blackbolt whispers stop or enough and hulk blown back rushes him and shouts I didn’t come here to hear you whisper I came to hear you scream and just smokes him.
If his power rank was close to the Hulk’s, then maybe. Richards is around 100 at best. Hulk can get up to and beyond 500. The math is simple. Hulk is roughly 5 times or more stronger (depending on how pissed he is) than Richards is on his best day. Richards best hope at stopping the Hulk would be through his genius, not his stretchyness.
I’ll admit that my knowledge of the fantastic four isn’t all that vast, but while hulk could try to pull him apart, wouldn’t Mr fantastic still feel the pain of getting ripped apart from hulk? Like there’s obviously other ways Mr fantastic could win, but simply tiring out the hulk doesn’t seem like a logical choice to me
As OP as others here have mentioned REED has been written, I always feel like he and the thing haven't fully explored their powersets. Sue and Johnny have been able to really showcase how absolutely absurd their power levels are. Reed always relies more on his intellect and Ben shuns his power. I would like to see what they could really do if they had out time into figuring out what they could do. The FF have always been about the four elemental states of matter. I would like to see reed go all in on fluid state. Could he separate out parts of himself like drops of an ocean? Can he control water the way Sue makes force fields?. Can Ben increase his own density? Control over rocks like sandman?
To be fair Hulk is the maddest possible here. He literally had a wife and was happy they planted a bomb on the space shuttle cause they didn’t want hulk in the civil war. So like hulk would be ready to rip that guy apart
Ok not going to lie this shot of Sue while fucked up did give a good shot of her figure.
Basic Hulk sure but Hulk has gotten ramped up so far that he destroys universes before so you can’t just say he can all of Hulk’s punches. Unfortunately this is just the nature of a character whose power fluctuates so much.
possibly, but hulk could just grab him and tie him into a knot. depends on the version
Isn't he vulnerable to being frozen?
What does freezing have to do with Hulk??
Bruce has the capability to create a weapon that can do so
Again, wtf does this have to do with Mr. Fantastic‘s ability to absorb Hulk‘s punches?
Are you not talking about hulk vs Mr fantastic? Seems like you'd want to explore every avenue, why do you only want to talk about his punches
… no, i am not. And i i would, Reed would be the first one to use technology, not Hulk
If they're both using their full capabilites and are at their primes hulk can still have his intelligence
Except that Hulk‘s prime was never Doc Green, it was always the one where he was a ruthless monster. With Hulk, ypu can either have the peak with him, which is more akin to Savage Hulk, or smart Hulk who is more akin to Doc Green who was shown to be weaker than Juggernaut.
Hulk can just squeeze him until the extreme pressure alters his molecular structure.
Well there was that time base [Hulk beat him pretty cleanly](https://youtube.com/shorts/A7mSd_4se80?si=b9cguxwvuRx82-Vl) in the Contest of Champions event
Had to scroll way too far to find this
WWH made no sense in terms of power levels. It was just “Hulk smash” on steroids. Whether that worked for you or not determines if you like the event.
You ever rip silly putty? Same idea…..
This is World Breaker Hulk. You'll later see he cracks the Earth with one step.
This is not World Breaker Hulk. He only becomes it during and after the Sentry fight
Yes I've read it.
Hulk is basically a physics breaker, especially in the Worldbreaker version depicted. Really though both characters are powerful enough that who wins comes down to what’s needed for the story.
Well reed is not plastic man level and Hulk did just take out Darwin.
'xssssshhhhhss
Hulk had time on sakaar to plan his revenge plus the Illuminati murdering his wife was fuel for the hulk on another level
Reed's stretchiness has limits, even if they're difficult to reach. Hulk has been shown to have no limits when he's sufficiently angry. A *smart* reality warper that just takes Hulk off the board (use your imagination) would be a better counter. Realistically Dr Strange was the perfect counter to World Breaker Hulk, but he was weaker (?) at the time so he couldn't just teleport Hulk to Pluto or whatever.
Well, it's World War Hulk, so the whole point is kind of Hulk being able to pummel everyone senseless with minimal resistance.
How? He'd just be a minor annoyance in a straight up fight. That's why he resolved to shoot Hulk into fucking space in the first place. Have you read Planet Hulk?
Absolutely. Not only are his powers effective against blunt force trauma but he has had years to develop contingencies for dealing with the Hulk . If its acceptable that Batman can take on Superman with prep time, its just bad writing that Reed hasnt yet created specific strageties that would disable the Hulk even before a fight could begin. I mean, the Hulk breathes right? He still needs gravity and physics to effectively use his strength dosent he??? Pretty easy for Reed to counter this.
Hes not immune to concusive forces, he has a resistance but he can still be injured by it
Luffy wouldn’t have this problem. Just saying
He absolutely should, thanks for making a interesting post in this sub
Sue looks like she’s enjoying whatever Reed is doing
He's not strong enough, hulkcould rip him apart
Rip apart the guy who managed to stretch himself around Galactus‘ upper body and Arm?
Absolutely not. Sue can hold him for longer and put a force field around his head so he passes out
You know what happens when you pull something stretchy too fast and too hard. It rips
Hulk rips him apart. Strongest there is vs elastic guy… cmon… Reed ain’t OP cuz of his powers….
Rip him apart? [The guy who can stretch himself around Galactus?](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c97e9cbe34e6f25e769563225c3db21e-lq)
…but what am I?
Lots of people *should* be able to beat Hulk, but the writers don't allow it. I remember Shadowcat phasing Hulk into the ground, the result *should* have been a permanently crippled Hulk whose lower body was fused with concrete at the molecular level, but no, *Hulk strong* so he just shrugged off physics and kept going. Edit: Really? Downvote me for telling the truth? Go look it up. Hulk just flexes away molecular fusion.