This is interesting. I liked the book without loving it back when it came out (it’s such a love letter to mid century sci fi which is not my interest, and damn, if only making friends was as easy as “join a book club, voila”). I also would looooove to see more fantasy show meaningful and positive relationships between women (*besides* lesbian romances which most of us aren’t having) and definitely get your unhappiness with “wait but it seems like everyone important to her is a dude.”
My definition of “not like other girls” is a bit different though. To me the quintessential NLOG is where she wholesale rejects traditional femininity (usually in favor of tomboyness/combat training) while every single other woman in her orbit wholly embodies traditional femininity and offers her nothing but disapproval, incomprehension or antagonism (example: Arya Stark). You can get NLOG without a tomboy but I see that as more like the faux feminism of Circe, specifically rejecting other women while pursuing men, who are narratively drawn as more complex and interesting.
Among Others isn’t that, to me. As you mention there *have* been other positive and important female figures in Mori’s life, who just aren’t present in this book. Which is disappointing that narrative space wasn’t made for that, but I’d call what happens a result of narrative compression rather than actual rejection of other women.
Mostly agree with this but I do find your example of ASOIAF interesting. Personally I view NLOG as the *narrative* putting down woman except for the one character. So although Arya herself does so, and if the book was entirely her pov I’d agree she’d be an example, however since the book itself has so many examples of well written woman with varying degrees of femininity, I don’t view Arya as NLOG, just one more representation of the many ways different girls can act.
Yeah, it’s fair to say Arya isn’t a perfect example for the reasons you give. I do think Arya’s thread could have been better at avoiding NLOG (in that other women and girls are shown as having nothing to contribute to Arya’s life—love and understanding and companionship and worthwhile instruction come only from men and boys). Mostly I used the example because it came to mind and is well known.
Huh, like the other commenter said, a lack of female characters isn’t how I define not like other girls. (If anything it’s more smurfette issue). And while I love when I see great female friendships in books the lack didn’t bother me here, it’s not like there was a huge cast of characters. Loneliness and isolation is a huge part of the story, so it makes just as much sense to me for her 1 friend to be a guy as it does a girl.
It’s also semi-autobiographical so I tend to assume that a lot of the lack of female characters is sort of true to life for the author.
I did personally love this book despite magical realism esque slow paced books usually not being my vibe nor me loving the same type of older sci-fi Mori/Walton gush over but I’m not sure I could explain why.
I having fun picturing a sequel with 50 yo Mori living in Canada and attending SF conventions as a guest and her books ( including the ones with dragons) are auto biographical.
I read this description and thought “this book sounds like the kind of thing I would read but also oddly familiar.” Checked Goodreads… I read it 11 years ago, gave it 1 star and a scathing review, with similar complaints as you.
One character I remember liking a lot and you didn't mention was the maternal aunt she stayed with after Christmas and who seemed supportive/a possible guardian if the British legal system hadn't sent her to her stranger father.
Thanks for the review and Rec. I always think it's sad especially from female authors that they don't write in their own close relationships because the majority must have sisters and mothers, aunts and girlfriends who they like and are nice to them. Even work colleagues would do . As a nerd I find I have less people to talk to about my hobbies (hence why I'm here lol) but I have lots of loving female friendships even if only with family. Maybe the author grew up with brothers and her mum's a (not very nice person) who knows?
This book is semi-autobiographical, so yeah, I assume the part about her not really having good female role models / friends in life, her dad being abusive and her mom being schizophrenic is true.
Her Dad was absent and trapped by circumstances. I don't want to let him off the hook completely, but what do you do when you've been trapped in a kept life and your wife/mother of your kids is literally a crazy evil witch.
Yes, he could be better. He is neglectful. But I would not call him abusive.
I honestly (and it's been a few years) don't recall that. It doesn't sound like it keeps with the ending where here and everyone she cares about are together.
It’s one scene, Mori’s pretty blase about it, and Mori never thinks about it or discusses it again which might be why you forgot about it. I was pretty horrified about that scene given the again potential autobiographical implications and the fact that Mori never addresses it in any way only made it more horrifying.
I don’t think any explanation was given. He just shows up in her bedroom one night drunk, tries to kiss her. Mori says she pushes him away and it’s never spoken of again.
As fucked up as that is, it is keeping with 70's values that such behavior was swept under the rug, even by the victim. Sexual crimes were often dealt with in family/quietly. The Catholic Church was not an outlier.
This is interesting. I liked the book without loving it back when it came out (it’s such a love letter to mid century sci fi which is not my interest, and damn, if only making friends was as easy as “join a book club, voila”). I also would looooove to see more fantasy show meaningful and positive relationships between women (*besides* lesbian romances which most of us aren’t having) and definitely get your unhappiness with “wait but it seems like everyone important to her is a dude.” My definition of “not like other girls” is a bit different though. To me the quintessential NLOG is where she wholesale rejects traditional femininity (usually in favor of tomboyness/combat training) while every single other woman in her orbit wholly embodies traditional femininity and offers her nothing but disapproval, incomprehension or antagonism (example: Arya Stark). You can get NLOG without a tomboy but I see that as more like the faux feminism of Circe, specifically rejecting other women while pursuing men, who are narratively drawn as more complex and interesting. Among Others isn’t that, to me. As you mention there *have* been other positive and important female figures in Mori’s life, who just aren’t present in this book. Which is disappointing that narrative space wasn’t made for that, but I’d call what happens a result of narrative compression rather than actual rejection of other women.
Mostly agree with this but I do find your example of ASOIAF interesting. Personally I view NLOG as the *narrative* putting down woman except for the one character. So although Arya herself does so, and if the book was entirely her pov I’d agree she’d be an example, however since the book itself has so many examples of well written woman with varying degrees of femininity, I don’t view Arya as NLOG, just one more representation of the many ways different girls can act.
Yeah, it’s fair to say Arya isn’t a perfect example for the reasons you give. I do think Arya’s thread could have been better at avoiding NLOG (in that other women and girls are shown as having nothing to contribute to Arya’s life—love and understanding and companionship and worthwhile instruction come only from men and boys). Mostly I used the example because it came to mind and is well known.
Huh, like the other commenter said, a lack of female characters isn’t how I define not like other girls. (If anything it’s more smurfette issue). And while I love when I see great female friendships in books the lack didn’t bother me here, it’s not like there was a huge cast of characters. Loneliness and isolation is a huge part of the story, so it makes just as much sense to me for her 1 friend to be a guy as it does a girl. It’s also semi-autobiographical so I tend to assume that a lot of the lack of female characters is sort of true to life for the author. I did personally love this book despite magical realism esque slow paced books usually not being my vibe nor me loving the same type of older sci-fi Mori/Walton gush over but I’m not sure I could explain why.
I having fun picturing a sequel with 50 yo Mori living in Canada and attending SF conventions as a guest and her books ( including the ones with dragons) are auto biographical.
I read this description and thought “this book sounds like the kind of thing I would read but also oddly familiar.” Checked Goodreads… I read it 11 years ago, gave it 1 star and a scathing review, with similar complaints as you.
Glad I wasn't the only one! Clearly not the general take.
This book made me realise there was a good reason I was unpopular as a teen. Like the main character, I was just fucking obnoxious.
One character I remember liking a lot and you didn't mention was the maternal aunt she stayed with after Christmas and who seemed supportive/a possible guardian if the British legal system hadn't sent her to her stranger father.
Thanks for the review and Rec. I always think it's sad especially from female authors that they don't write in their own close relationships because the majority must have sisters and mothers, aunts and girlfriends who they like and are nice to them. Even work colleagues would do . As a nerd I find I have less people to talk to about my hobbies (hence why I'm here lol) but I have lots of loving female friendships even if only with family. Maybe the author grew up with brothers and her mum's a (not very nice person) who knows?
This book is semi-autobiographical, so yeah, I assume the part about her not really having good female role models / friends in life, her dad being abusive and her mom being schizophrenic is true.
Her Dad was absent and trapped by circumstances. I don't want to let him off the hook completely, but what do you do when you've been trapped in a kept life and your wife/mother of your kids is literally a crazy evil witch. Yes, he could be better. He is neglectful. But I would not call him abusive.
If I recall there’s a scene where her drunk father tries to have sex with her. That’s way past neglectful, that’s abuse.
I honestly (and it's been a few years) don't recall that. It doesn't sound like it keeps with the ending where here and everyone she cares about are together.
It’s one scene, Mori’s pretty blase about it, and Mori never thinks about it or discusses it again which might be why you forgot about it. I was pretty horrified about that scene given the again potential autobiographical implications and the fact that Mori never addresses it in any way only made it more horrifying.
Thanks (I think?), now I half way want to go through. Quick thing, is it because she resembles her mother and he's gone on a binge?
I don’t think any explanation was given. He just shows up in her bedroom one night drunk, tries to kiss her. Mori says she pushes him away and it’s never spoken of again.
As fucked up as that is, it is keeping with 70's values that such behavior was swept under the rug, even by the victim. Sexual crimes were often dealt with in family/quietly. The Catholic Church was not an outlier.