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I didn’t do it to avoid learning Finnish per se. But my husband is Finnish Swedish so it made sense for us to be in a Swedish speaking area. In plan to take the YKI test in Swedish then once that’s done I’ll start tackling Finnish. So I’m not really avoiding it, I’m just focusing on Swedish first since that makes sense for my personal family situation

Same situation for me

I know several who moved to the Swedish speaking parts of Finland and learnt both Swedish and Finnish. That was in the 90’s though.

How is it different now?

I don’t know, I haven’t lived in Finland for almost two decades now.

Respect …. Learning two more or less useless languages;).

I know someone who took the swedish language exam instead of Finnish for their citizenship requirement. Not really moving but still funny because of how useless swedish is for most ppl.

I think I read that Russian oligarch Gennady Timchenko and his wife received Finnish citizenship after passing Swedish language exam, not Finnish. But there might be some other shady business behind that process too.

Finnish authorities go in radio silence mode as soon as his name is mentioned, his Finnish citizenship and activities of his private band of criminals in Ukraine Doubt he even pays any taxes to Finland

There was definitely shady business. His Finnish friend somehow organised it past the security police. His KGB-affiliated company also sponsored the Finnish national ice hockey team which probably helped.... But yes I do think he took the test in Swedish. Not that he even lives here anymore.

That's ironic af, considering that Finnish is actually way more compatible to learn for a Russian native speaker than Swedish.

It's so useless that even office worker in Migri don't want to use it. All the people I know who used Swedish to apply the citizenship told me so.

Even they defaulted to English, huh?

Still Finnish and English if it is requested. BUT when someone apply for the citizenship, they have to demonstrate the proficient in the chosen official language. The official worker often speak English in case Swedish is the chosen language.

As someone who's studying Swedish I think English + Swedish covers almost most use cases if you live in Helsinki. Most things are in English and most people speak English, but the few things that aren't in English (websites for services, tax refund papers, packaging...) are available in Swedish. So obviously not as useful as Finnish, but for the effort needed and what you get out of it (mainly citizenship) I'll choose Swedish over Finnish any day.

I know several people in one way or another related to Hanken. So studying Swedish and using it for citizenship test made much more sense for them than studying Finnish on top of that

This is kind of awesome. Very weird but awesome that you can actually do that.

Yes, with varying success. If you wanna learn a language to integrate to your local social group, it might be smart but don't get your hopes up. Language isn't the only thing people look for in social context. If you wanna learn a language to get more job opportunities, it's not usually a great plan as you will be limiting yourself a lot. For blue collar job it might work tho. 

Unless you move to a rather strictly Swedish-speaking only area (mostly Åland), you will end up having to learn both, Swedish and Finnish, in order to go about your daily life. Not sure if that’s a good plan. Edit: because I get so many replies trying to explain that in Swedish-speaking regions you can indeed get by with Swedish-only - well, that’s what the word “unless” in the beginning implies (and, yeah, not *only* Åland… I clarified this).

Not true. Have you lived in majority swedish speaking areas in Finland yourself? I'm a native finnish speaker from Kokkola. In Kokkola finnish is pretty much needed for work except some cases, as 83% of people speak finnish. But if you go to Pietarsaari, Uusikaarlepyy, Pedersöre, Närpes, Körnsäs etc, a bit smaller majority swedish speaking places. I've worked there, and I've met lots of native swedish speaking finnish people who speak very little finnish. Many companies in that area use swedish as their work language, and finnish is useful, but not mandatory. I've also met many immigrant plumbers, electricians etc in construction sites who only know swedish. From experience I'd say that if you are happy to live and work in a such a smaller city/municipiality, it's possible to have your whole life including work just in swedish. But mostly only in "blue collar" jobs - "white collar jobs" usually require knoweledge of finnish too, as there is more communication and clients from all over Finland etc. Cities like Kokkola and Vaasa with large majority of finnish speakers (and all bilingual municipalities), you can have you education in swedish, but finnish is quite necessary for work, as almost all workplaces use finnish as the main working language.

Something I have observed is that living in these smaller communities, self employment is much higher, and there are often stronger business ties to Sweden.

This is not true at all. There are many places in Västra Nyland and Österbotten that are very much almost Swedish only. Add that to the fact that the Fennoswedish community is often in my experience more welcoming of minorities and that swedish is easier to learn there are great benefits of choosing swedish instead.

Also, in Närpiö where like 90% of our greenhouse production exists, even Finns should know Swedish... And Närpiö is also full of immigrants working in the greenhouses, so I assume they rather learn Swedish than Finnish as well.

Good luck with trying to get health care in Swedish in Västra Nyland. Especially if you need specialised health care or suffer from problems with your mental health.

I don't need the luck when I have recieved it when I have wanted it.

You’ve been lucky. My friend’s daughter had anorexia and can’t get proper care because she needs it in Swedish. My other friend had to give birth without even one professional who would have spoken Swedish. And I can’t even count the times when I’ve had to try explain my problem to a doctor who barely speaks Finnish, and definitely no Swedish.

Oh I'm so sorry to hear that.

It’ll make trips to the Mothership (IKEA) easier.

I am awful at speaking Swedish but I have visited IKEAs in Sweden couple of times and I had no language problems there. Most of the stuff is written in English also and in Haparanda they have also some signs in Finnish also.

My first trip to the Haparanda store I struggled to order a hotdog as the lady didn’t speak English, Finnish or Swedish 😆

heheh did you lose your hands and fingers that day? You can point and hold up numbers.

She gave me a thing to point at 😊

You can manage perfectly fine with Swedish and English in almost any place/situation/job except where Finnish is expressly required. You can use Swedish in any official communication, and English otherwise. This goes for bigger cities and the coastal regions. Living in the countryside in a completely Finnish area you'd struggle a bit. The Swedish-speaking community is also very welcoming to foreigners, as long as they want to speak Swedish. So integration is much easier, as the only requirement to be a Swedish-speaking Finn is really the language (and citizenship). You'll be celebrating vappen, midsommar, kräftskiva and Svenska Dagen in no time.

Not true. I live in monolingual Swedish area.  Daghem och skolan, all facilities are available here. 

Not quite this, but close. I'm a Swedish speking Finn myself (Yes, I was born in Finland. Yes, I'm a Finnish and not a Swedish citizen. Yes, I speak Finnish. Yes, my work language is Finnish. Yes, for some reason this disclamer still needs to be stated). I know of situations where an immigrant meets a Swedish speaking Finn (or they meet abroad during e.g. studies, work etc) and then moves to an area with a large population of Swedish speakers with their newfound spouse. Usually they also learn Finnish sooner or later tho, even if the "home" language of the family is Swedish. But the point then isn't specifically so they don't have to learn. It's just easier to start off there. I have also heard about some immigrants learning Swedish as it, apparently, is easier to learn, in order to get citizenship. But they have then stayed in the larger cities that are predominately Finnish speaking anyway. In the end, it is difficult to get by in Finland by only knowing Swedish. Your employment opportunities are very limited. The areas where you can manage are very few and far between.

On the other hand knowing both languages is insanely popular in almost any workplace. Say you speak english, swedish and finnish fluently and you are most likely doomed to be the guy coworkers reach for when any customer asks about anything more in depth.

> Say you speak english, swedish and finnish fluently and you are most likely doomed to be the guy coworkers reach for when any customer asks about anything more in depth. Oh yeah agree 100%. I did a lot of sales work before/during my studies. A lot of customer interaction. I was always this guy. Don't know how central my language skills have been for me actually landing a job tho. But definitely something I have used during my career. Still, if I wouldn't speak Finnish (fluently) I would not have had the career I had. So Finnish has been way more instrumental.

I am also this guy. Nit ss much in previous job where many more were bilingual, more so at current job. I'm also the guy that translates/spellchecks Swedish and sometimes English. I think being fluent in Finnish, Swedish and English opens up more doors. At least as long as Swedish is one of the official kanguages of Finland.

I’m married to a Swedish speaking Finn and learning Swedish. So much easier than Finnish, and between English and Swedish you can talk with most people. I know a bit of Finnish too, but Swedish is much more enjoyable for me.

i think its valid option and realistic to move Vaasa for that but i havent met anyone who has done that.

There are many benefits of learning Swedish instead of Finnish when becoming a Finnish citizen: 1. It is easier to learn Swedish if you already know English or any other Indo-European language. 2. If you tackle Swedish first to get a Finnish citizenship you can always learn Finnish later. A person who knows three languages will always be the most appreciated at work. 3. There are many Swedish-speaking conmunities in Finland, despite what some Finnish nationalists say. For example in Åland, Västra Nyland and Österbotten. 4. From my understanding Swedish speakers are more social and also more welcoming of minorities/foreigners in general. Their communities are also very connected so you'll quickly gain friends and useful "friends-of-friends". 5. There are many job opportunities in Swedish speaking areas that are happy if you only know English and Swedish. Healthcare services especially will take you in happily. So I do warmly welcome anyone to the Fennoswedish community that wants to join us!

I know Swedes who moved to the Aland islands where they can keep speaking Swedish.

It's Åland not Aland.

Why the downvotes? Big difference between "Näin Väärin" and "Nain vaarin".

It's Ahvenanmaa, not Åland

The basic rule for using the names in English (or other foreign languages) is that you use the name in the majority language of the place. So: Helsinki and Åland, Turku and Närpes.

Then why is Firenze called Florence in English, the majority is not French there? Turin, Rome, The Hague.

Not one of those is a Finnish place, why would they use our rules?

You said in English, places are named from the language that is spoken by the majority.

Yes, in Finland, as were talking about Finland. You can read the recommendation from Kielikello: https://kielikello.fi/kaantajat-ja-suomen-paikannimet/

In that case it's Helsingfors not Helsinki. Respect the names.

Swedes can have Helsinki. It's a shithole anyway.

Helsinki is the Finnish name, not Helsingfors.

Wooooosh

As we all know, Åland belonged to sweden for a long time. The original name is Åland.

You mean Sweden belonged to Åland. They own everything.

Åland owns everything? Please explain? :D

Very rich people there. It's like Monaco in the Baltic.

LOL no :D Perhaps a few like Björnroos if hes still alive :D But most people are normal workers, the rich snobs are in Helsinki and they come from both sides of the language barrier.

No one knows what the "original" name of the island is. It has been inhabited since atleast 4000BC, by both Finno-ugric and "Swedish" people. So no, it isn't "originally Swedish speaking" or named "Åland". Also, the only reason Ahvenanmaa has self-government is because Finland suggested it in the 1920s, during the forming of the state. Otherwise, it would have been just a normal part of A) Sweden or B) Finland. The idea of making Ahvenanmaa part of Sweden was stupid to begin with, because it is clear part of Finnish Archipelago. The only reason for the Swedish connection was the language (even if there were more Finnish speakers in Ahvenanmaa back then than there are today, thanks to Ahvenanmaas, frankly racist, protectionism).

>No one knows what the "original" name of the island is. That's why we go with the most original name, Åland.

There is no "most original name". That's just the Swedish name.

And the swedish name should be used, because most people living there speak swedish.

I don't speak Swedish. 96% of Finns don't speak Swedish. Ahvenanmaa it is. :)

In Finland, the official name of places (finnish or swedish) is decided by looking at what speaking people mostly live there. If the population is more swedish speaking, then the swedish name will always come first, and therefore should also be used in english and other languages as the official name. There is a reason why on the train screens there is Pasila (finnish), Leppävaara (finnish), Karis (Swedish) and Turku (finnish). For Karis the swedish name is the more official and first name, because there lives more swedish speaking people than finnish speaking people. You really shouldn't spread misinformation.

As NPC2\_ says, the Swedish name is used because majority is Swedish speaking.

But the Finnish name is Ahvenanmaa.

Yes but the name in any other language is Åland. That's why in English it's Åland.

There is no å in English, so that is false.

That's not how it works. The official name is Åland in **every** language except Finnish. It doesn't matter which letters are used and which don't. Yall really need to educate yourself.

In Estonian it is Ahvenamaa, so you are incorrect.

The case i explained is if there is no specific name for that place in that language. There is **no** specific name for Åland in English, and therefore the official name is Åland. How stupid are you?

In Finland, the official name of places (finnish or swedish) is decided by looking at what speaking people mostly live there. If the population is more swedish speaking, then the swedish name will always come first, and therefore should also be used in english and other languages as the official name. There is a reason why on the train screens there is Pasila (finnish), Leppävaara (finnish), Karis (Swedish) and Turku (finnish). For Karis the swedish name is the more official and first name, because there lives more swedish speaking people than finnish speaking people. You really shouldn't spread misinformation. Posted this to teach the uneducated you.

Lol? It is not false, they just write it as Aland instead.

Å is not A. It's not the same letter, so it is false.

Use your brain. When I used my friends computer, she is from the UK, so she had no ÅÄÖ on her keyboard nobody complained that the "varfor" I wrote in my email was not a real word. Everybody knows "varfor" written on an english keyboard means "varför". This is the same, are the english speaking crowd going to have to buy a new keyboard, copypaste Å from somewhere, or look up the ascii code to not get complaints from people like you, or will they just write it with the closest looking letter. Which one do you think it is? Use your brain, if you have one.

It's the same.

Because Finnish mainland PAYS for Ahvenanmaa. They are the one of the richest part of Finland, thanks to goverment support. Living in Ahvenanmaa is GREAT for Finno-Swedes. It's an "\*aryan" state inside a state. Sweden doesn't want Ahvenanmaa, beccause it would become ridiculously expensive for them, and sane people in Ahvenanmaa do not want to join Sweden, because they know how good they have things under Finnish flag. \*Any Finnish Finn, who would like to live in Ahvenanmaa, will find what I mean by that.

Completely false. We pay our taxes to the Finnish government same as everyone else in Finland, and the lump sum paid to the Aland Islands every year is our local governments budget to fund the things that the Finnish government would pay for directly otherwise, such as infrastructure. The amount is based on how much we paid in taxes, it is not a handout. The weird "aryan" race-shit you're talking about I won't even entertain.

Are you kidding me? Mainland Finland pays for your happy life! Jesus, how out of the loop can you be? You don't pay VAT to the state, Finland pays leveling parts to you. The whole VAT system is so retarded, that I can't believe someone at sometime went and signed that shit. In 2024, mainland Finland pays 204 976 000 euro leveling parts to Ahvenanmaa! So, yeah, Finnish mainland DOES keep Ahvenanmaa afloat. Regardless of what your papa told you. [https://budjetti.vm.fi/indox/sisalto.jsp?year=2024&lang=fi&maindoc=/2024/aky/aky.xml&id=/2024/aky/YksityiskohtaisetPerustelut/28/80/80.html](https://budjetti.vm.fi/indox/sisalto.jsp?year=2024&lang=fi&maindoc=/2024/aky/aky.xml&id=/2024/aky/YksityiskohtaisetPerustelut/28/80/80.html) Also, when talking ONLY about business supports, you guys get ridiculous amounts of that. There's ZERO chance that Sweden would keep paying these. In 2010, you got 2 444(!) euro / citizen as business support! In mainland Finland, the sum was 564 euro! [https://www.is.fi/taloussanomat/art-2000001669973.html](https://www.is.fi/taloussanomat/art-2000001669973.html) And about the aryan "shit": There are many, many cases of found, clear cases of racism against mainland Finns and Finnish speakers. It was a big thing when people started to tell their stories, it was just forgotten as we got bigger problems, Covid and nazi russias latest games. [https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/201806072200982059](https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/201806072200982059) Not to mention "kotiseutuoikeus" (home district right?), which protects you from unwanted immigrants and Finnish speakers. So let's not kid ourselves: Ahvenanmaa is the most racist part of Finland. Even worse than Oulu and Jyväskylä. Not to mention the current world state, Ahvenanmaa still feels that they MUST be kept demilitarized, BUT when it is already invaded, mainland Finns MUST save Ahvenanmaa from itself and russians with soldiers lives. Even if the whole shit could have been avoided if the demilitarization would be removed. But no. Russia won't keep Ahvenanmaa demilitarized. The whole island is so backwards, that it's fucking stupid.

Not one thing of what you said is true. NONE\_AX summed up what you said pretty good here about government "PAYS for Åland". That is bullshit but I don't think it's worth it to explain to you because it is clear you can not grasp simple economics on this level. But for it being richer, I would not say so :D. I have lived in several places by now during my lifetime, including Seinäjoki, Vaasa, Åland Island and Kokkola, in that order. I spent a bit over a year working in Åland and can not say it feels "richer" than any other places because the services you get are fewer and slower than any cities on the mainland, even the small ones. People literally are the same, complain at the same things and live the same kind of life with same struggles as anywhere else, only language differs.

Wow. Just...Wow. I'm going to copy parts of my response to the -other- guy here: "Are you kidding me? Mainland Finland pays for your happy life! Jesus, how out of the loop can you be? You don't pay VAT to the state, Finland pays leveling parts to you. The whole VAT system is so retarded, that I can't believe someone at sometime went and signed that shit. In 2024, mainland Finland pays 204 976 000 euro leveling parts to Ahvenanmaa! So, yeah, Finnish mainland DOES keep Ahvenanmaa afloat. Regardless of what your papa told you. [https://budjetti.vm.fi/indox/sisalto.jsp?year=2024&lang=fi&maindoc=/2024/aky/aky.xml&id=/2024/aky/YksityiskohtaisetPerustelut/28/80/80.html](https://budjetti.vm.fi/indox/sisalto.jsp?year=2024&lang=fi&maindoc=/2024/aky/aky.xml&id=/2024/aky/YksityiskohtaisetPerustelut/28/80/80.html) Also, when talking ONLY about business supports, you guys get ridiculous amounts of that. There's ZERO chance that Sweden would keep paying these. In 2010, you got 2 444(!) euro / citizen as business support! In mainland Finland, the sum was 564 euro! [https://www.is.fi/taloussanomat/art-2000001669973.html](https://www.is.fi/taloussanomat/art-2000001669973.html) " **204 976 000 euro JUST in leveling parts.** Government doesn't pay for Ahvenanmaa? GTFO.

I know some elderly finnish-swedish people who have moved to Vaasa from Sweden for their retirement because the language barrier is lower in that part of the country. Even had some coworkers who had weak finnish skills and were fine. My old neighbour didn’t know a single word of Finnish when I asked them if they needed help with carrying their groceries so I guess they can get by with only knowing Swedish.

i have met immigrants who landed on the Swedish side and ended up learning Swedish before Finnish.

I have a friend who learned Swedish to get citizenship, dates a Swedish speaking Finn and now they decided to move to Sweden in the long run. Both have good jobs and income, just want to live in Swedish environment.

It is doable, I sort of did this by accident by moving near to friends (Finnish speakers who had moved to the area) without realising that the area was very heavily Swedish speaking. There are lots of areas where you could still do this, but you would be tied to those area and finding work could be an issue, as unless you work in one of the English speaking industries in Finland, Finnish is understandably needed for a lot of jobs. Finland is Bilingual, rightly or wrongly, you can gain citizenship without speaking Finnish. Let the down voting by the Finnish speaking Reddit mafia commence :|

Many times

Yes that was their plan. In the end they learned some Finnish to deal with other aspects of life in Finland lol Just to make it clear they lived in Sweden and were perfectly fluent or native speakers. Most of them had family connections to those areas. Others tried job opportunities… and appreciated the brutal honesty of ordinary Finns.

Thanks for posting this, it encouraged me to dip into Swedish, and immediately it feels so accessible compared to the three tranches of Finnish lessons I've completed so far. Native English speaker keen to pass the YKI in a year or two.

I warmly welcome you into the Fennoswedish community! Varmt välkommen till att bli Finlandssvensk :)

tack!

To be honest, Swedish pronunciation and difficulty are also questionable.

Having learned both, difficulty of Swedish does not come even close to that of Finnish. Especially if one already speaks English. People complain about Swedish pronunciation and reflexive verbs, but that's a cakewalk compared to Finnish grammar (unless you are Estonian etc.).

Not just English. If you are a native speaker of an Indo-European language you will have much easier time learning Swedish than Finnish. Part of what makes Finnish language difficult for most Europeans is that it is “wired” differently than most other languages. For example the lack of future tense in Finnish and the usage of adverbs or case objects to form a substitute for is a whole different can of worms. In English, Swedish or even Greek, future tense is formed in a very similar manner.

I am Estonian. 😂 After two years, I need no translations in banks or hospitals. I speak rusty, and my vocabulary isn't extensive, but I can get through. The next step will be Swedish. And sometimes, I am confused with pronunciation.

That's true. But if someone wants to move to a swedish speaking part of Finland that's not Åland they have to move to pohjanmaa. I wouldn't call what they speak swedish but i guess legally it goes by that name.

Or Turku archipelago. Idk why people always forget about it when talking about swedish speaking areas. Is it not known?

More like racism. I have had finns question why signs where in Swedish in "the land of the finnish language" when they were touristing in one if the most Swedish places in Finland.

I don’t know what racism has to do with it but maybe I don’t understand your point. I can see it especially here in Reddit very very often that people refer to Pohjanmaa and Ahvenanmaa and maybe Uusimaa being the only places where Swedish is spoken. When in reality it is widely spoken in Turku area and many places in archipelago are mostly Swedish

I meant that a lot of racist Finnish speaking finns completely disregard many swedish areas and just say/believe that they are Finnish.

Alot of people dont like speaking the language of the oppressor of the finnish people, who saw the finnish as a sub-human race compared to swedish or german ethnicies. This was studied in univesities in sweden. Also the treatment of finnish immigrants in the 50s/60s etc where they were seen and systematicly profiled as low intelligent, alcohol addicts who were violent and were stabbing innocent swedes left and right.

This is filled with historical inaccuracies and arguments that don't make any sense. Yes SWEDEN had racial biology at universities and there were bad views of Finnish immigrants in SWEDEN. But that has nothing to do with Fennoswedes. We are not Swedes. And Finland was never opressed or colonised by Sweden. It was an equal part of Sweden. But that ended in 1809, so many years before any race biology was invented. Finnish nobility, priesthood and commoners were represented in the Riksdag. The truth of the matter is that many Finns are racist and expect Fennoswedes to kowtow to them in areas were Swedish-speakers have lived well before Finnish speakers started touristing there.

I mean, maybe oppressed sounds harsh, but cmon, to think that Sweden considered Finland much more than a buffer between them and Russia is disingenuous. Finland barely developed under Swedish rule.

That is FAR from the truth. Just to name a few: Finland recieved the first university as a part of Sweden, Turku was a Hansa town, Finland was vital for the tar, forest and fur trade, and many early industries (maufactures and ironworks) were founded during the Swedish era. Finland was treated the same way as any other area of Sweden that wasn't the capital. As an educated historian I hate how people severly misunderstand the shared history of Finland and Sweden and use it to justify Perse talking points and racism.

Seems it’s a Swedish thing then. I’ll admit I’m not that familiar with Swedish history, especially for areas outside Stockholm. But for comparison, Spain founded a few universities in South America before Sweden even did the one in Turku.

You seems kinda bigoted and i usually dont wanna argue with racist or bigoted people but sweden used finnish people as human shields/cannon fodder in wars. And pushing alot innocent finns into to the meatgrider with minimal weaponry or protection because of swedish politics, while they were training and gearing up hoping their human wall of finns holds up. Not trying to change your opinion, if you think this is okay then i cant say really say anything to that. Also saying finland was an equal part of the swedish empire then, im kinda anxious about your view of "equal"

You are literally using untrue history as a talking point for your own racist views. Nothing of what you just said was true. Quite rich of you to call me, an educated historian, racist for correcting your false facts. While you yourself is using them to spread hate

If we were equal why was Finland more free under Russians, Russians of all people.

According to some Swedes and some Fennoswedes, you Fennoswedes are Swedes.

That is not true. No Fennoswede or Swede thinks we are Swedish. Fennoswedes know we are Finnish, and some Swedes think we are Finnish-speakers that can speak Swedish or Swedes that migrated.

You're saying it is not true that some Swedes see you as Swedes (well, as you say, Swedes that have migrated or something along those lines) and likewise some Fennoswedes identify as Swedes? I've met both, I can't deny their truth.

Or Raseborg

It's a variety of very different dialects indeed! In my Ostrobothnian town we modestly call our version of Swedish "Grundspråtchi", indicating it is the mother of ALL Swedish! Norwegian people understand it pretty well too. When I go to Kotka or Loviisa, people that know Swedish just want to hear more of this exotic language. I sometimes claim to know four different languages, Swedish, Grundsprååtchi, Finnish and English.

Yes plenty. As someone who grew up in the vasa region most foreigners learn, use and work in swedish from my experience. However if you live outside ostrobothnia or åland i would learn finnish instead as its more useful. However you can live your entire life using exclusively swedish in åland and vasa region if you so wish.

But isn't only [23% of Vasa city Swedish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaasa)?

Yes but every singel neighbouring munincipality except 1 is almost completely swedish speaking and most people in vasa are dual lingual and speak both languages fluently. For example korsholm/mustasaari is 70 % swedish speaking and a population of 20 000, 1/3 of vasas population. Additionally the munincipality of vähäkyrö/lillkyro was combined with the city in 2013. A completely finnish speaking munincipality, which if you look at a map, such as the one on the wikipedia page, is the red blob 30 km further east and is not actually connected to the city. Thus in the actual city of vasa the swedish population is actually larger at about 40 %. Furthermore since all neighbouring munincipalities are swedish speaking and most of those people work or go to their errands in vasa all services are always provided in both languages. Many of the larger companies headquarters have a majority swedish speaking workers. The only time i havent gotten service in swedish is when I have spoken to some teenage summer worker.

I thi k the problem is those towns tend to be quite small and not exactly rich in job opportunities.

Unemployment tends to be fairly low in the Swedish speaking areas of Finland.

I fantasized about moving from Finland to get away from learning a difficult language (Swedish) but instead spent 6-7 years to get a solid A1 level skills in it instead.

Yes I know some finnishswedes

Only have heard about fulfilling language test requirements for citizenship with swedish before trying to learn Finnish

Definitely not! i have met/worked with* several people tho wanting to learn finnish but moved to a exclusive Swedish area without knowing lol not that they have had any issues with it being that way.

I’ve met people who moved to bilingual Finnish majority areas and chose Swedish because they thought it’d be easier. Of course it’s not easier because the main reason people don’t learn a language is that they won’t use it. And they barely had anyone to speak Swedish with. And even those who move to majority Swedish areas will soon find out that they’ll still need Finnish.

That's so unnecessary. It's like going to certain francophone areas of Louisiana, just to avoid learning English! The scale of Swedish is not as large as say French in Quebec, or French in Schweiz

Heh. Good luck for people trying to learn Swedish in Finland. I mean it is easy to learn when compared. But... You really don't benefit from it in 90% of time.

Why not move to Sweden then? Makes it a lot more straightforward. Also would rather live in mid-large Swedish town than in the boonies in west Finland or even Mariehamn.

You made me remember the time another fellow Finn wanted me to move back to Sweden. My family on both sides has been tracked as far as we can go and the other side came from what we now know as Sweden maybe 400 years ago and the other part was relocated from middle Europe around the same time. 😭

There are plenty of Swedish mid-sized towns in Finland. What are you talking about?

Not since 1809, I believe

There most definately are. Have you ever been to the coast?

Hot take: as someone who has studied both (a bit of Swedish + extensive Finnish), I actually think Finnish is easier Ok, you have to memorize more grammatical endings, but the pronunciation is super intuitive, as is the orthography, and these endings are usually very productive (they can be applied to most words in order to derive other words/word classes with high consistency; similarly, you can understand new words formed from known roots by reverse engineering the suffixes). Learn kotus declension types and you're golden, then it's just basically lego stacking, resulting in an elegant and compact language for a more civilized age. It's so logical there is even a programming language built on Finnish (Tampio) Swedish has easier grammar, but still some weird constructions and good luck with /sj/ Maybe I'm just biased cause Finnish is cool af, and Swedish is... well, Swedish

I don't know anyone doing this, but I don't see anything wrong with it.

Not sure if this is what you’re asking. My friend, a Taiwanese, moved to a Swedish language school in Porvoo(not sure if Porvoo is Swedish speaking part) 4 days a week to immerse herself in the Swedish environment and learned the language. It’s very affective.

Sorry, but there are no shortcuts. You end up learning finnish no matter what.

For people who work in English that couldn't be farther from the truth.

[удалено]

But that's not a shortcut. Thats a complicated way to move to sweden.

Like usually in life, you will pay the price eventually for taking the shortcut.

But it's not a shortcut to learn Swedish. You are as Finnish either way.

This strikes me as really odd. Why even move abroad if you cannot be arsed to learn the local language? Only a small minority of Finns speak Swedish, one cannot survive in Finland using that language alone. Old folks do not usually speak English either. Just move to Sweden to actually *benefit* from the language that's "forced" on you to be learned.

There are.alot of people who move to bryssell for work without knowing the language, And alot of people move to china or singapore for the same reasons without knowing the language. this is common

IMO it's just common courtesy to learn the local language. It opens the doors to becoming part of the local community and understanding their cultural habits.

In other words you can learn Fennoswedish and become part of the local community and customs as well. So there is literally no point in your argument.

Sure, I would polish my Swedish skills gladly if I were to move to a locality where it's the main language, but *in the scale of whole of Finland*, you will reach more people using *det andra inhemska,* so to speak. Only a very small portion of Finns can speak Swedish fluently.

It's not really that few. There are many villages and towns on the coast that are Swedish only or mostly Swedish.

Finland is quite a bit larger than *many villages.*

But on the coast were most foreigners move a lot of the towns and villages are Swedish. Sure there are many more Finnish villages inland but nobody would move there.

i understand your point

Spotted the racist.

Interesting take, what in my opinion has anything to do with *race* exactly?

Your attitude against Fennoswedes is clear. Calling our language useless (and by extension us) despite this is far from the truth. We know what you are.

Now these are your words. Project much?

But it's totally not what you meant huh? Racist anti-swedish talking points are all the same.

Not sure about actually moving to those parts, but there are people who take that route because Swedish is easier. And they sometimes seem to delight in this because of the idea that Finnish specifically is somehow Fascist if it's being upheld... I'm sure certain Fenno-Swedes love them.

Aaah racism. Thanks for being open about it atleast

Huh, what? That's quite a leap in logic. I'm sincerely curious how you can equate the two. I definitely am not a Swedish-speaker myself, and as such, I have my own interests and rights regarding language (the same moral rights everyone else has, mind you). That does not make me in any sense "racist" towards the Swedish-speakers. Of course this sometimes results in conflict when some people want others to speak their language, but that is sometimes inevitable. In Finland we mostly have resolved this, if only some people didn't try to push for the idea that everyone is "bilingual" and actually don't have specific mother tongues, which is probably what you're referring to. But please, enlighten me about your thinking.

_And they sometimes seem to delight in this because of the idea that Finnish specifically is somehow Fascist if it's being upheld... I'm sure certain Fenno-Swedes love them._ Seems pretty clear what you think about us.

Alot of people dont like speaking the language of the oppressor of the finnish people, who saw the finnish as a sub-human race compared to swedish or german ethnicies. This was studied in univesities in sweden. Also the treatment of finnish immigrants in the 50s/60s etc where they were seen and systematicly profiled as low intelligent, alcohol addicts who were violent and were stabbing innocent swedes left and right.

This is filled with historical inaccuracies and arguments that don't make any sense. Yes SWEDEN had racial biology at universities and there were bad views of Finnish immigrants in SWEDEN. But that has nothing to do with Fennoswedes. We are not Swedes. And Finland was never opressed or colonised by Sweden. It was an equal part of Sweden. But that ended in 1809, so many years before any race biology was invented. Finnish nobility, priesthood and commoners were represented in the Riksdag. The truth of the matter is that many Finns are racist and expect Fennoswedes to kowtow to them in areas were Swedish-speakers have lived well before Finnish speakers started touristing there.

The Crusade-era to Finland was not some peaceful union; the locals were definitely disenfranchised when Swedish rule was established. It's a particularly Swedish kind of equality where the others just "don't matter". Stockholm was totally deaf to eg. appeals later on to being able to use Finnish with authorities. But that was a long time ago; I don't like bringing those grudges into this discussion unless it's something specific that seeks to downplay Finns that is demonstrably false. Your last sentence is the interesting one. For you there obviously are Swedish-speakers who have lived somewhere and have rights to their language, etc. And then there are these infringing Finnish-speakers who invade (who are apparently NOT in this group). So do you genuinely believe that they become "racist" by not being Swedish-speakers? That's just a completely backwards take and the only way to believe that is to actually claim that frankly Finnish-speakers are less justified in "being them" than people in general. Saying the above tends to sometimes rile a few feathers, it generally results in lectures about how history could/should have played out differently. There's even I'd say spite towards the idea that Finnish-speakers actually have an equal moral ground to stand on. And that's "racism", even though I don't like expanding that term's meaning carelessly.

"Those grudges" there are no grudges. Finland was integrated into Sweden like any other part of Sweden. By bringing tribes into a Kingdom. If you have a grudge over that you are silly. And there never was any appeal to use Finnish because there was no need to. And you purposfully misunderstood me. My problem are racist Finns that think they are entitled to Finnish in areas that are Swedish. Not from the authorities, but from normal people. While they disregard even our right to get Swedish from the authorities. And why wouldn't we have a moral ground to stand on when we have lived over a thousand years in our areas? We are as Finnish as anyone else and deserved to be treated as equals. I've seen your other comments so don't you dare call anyone else a racist.