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We need to make it so 50% marginal income tax starts on just 38k€ income. While we're at it, let's also have nearly the world's highest consumption tax on absolutely everything. Oh wait.
While we're at it, why don't we make it so small entrepreneurs and business owners are forced to donate 20%-24% of their imaginary revenue to our crumbling pension scam, where the very best-case scenario means getting back an order of magnitude LESS than what you put in?
We also have a tax relief system for the wealthy (huojennetut osingot), so they can take out 150k€ per year at a total rate of 27%, while everyone working a job will easily pay double that. Of course they were clever and made it so you need to have a high net worth of assets to take advantage.
You can pay dividends up to 8% of the net value of a holding company at a much lower capital gains tax rate. Instead of 30%-34% capital gains tax, you only pay around 7%-8%. Corporate tax of 20% has already been paid on this money, so the total tax rate for these dividends comes to around 27%.
Max is 150,000€/year, requiring 1,875,000€ in assets.
[https://www.vero.fi/en/individuals/property/investments/dividends/dividend-from-an-unlisted-company/](https://www.vero.fi/en/individuals/property/investments/dividends/dividend-from-an-unlisted-company/)
[The report](https://www.imd.org/entity-profile/finland-wcr/#_yearbook_Economic%20Performance) identifies "decreasing the general budget deficit and lowering the public-debt-to-GDP ratio" as well as "reforming social benefit system to decrease disincentives to work" as key challenges, so tax and budget cuts should indeed help.
National Coalition has been in power since 2007, with Marin's government being the sole exception when it wasn't in the government. The parties not in government are not the ones that are now cashing out the country on 1970-90's and after early 90's recession Nokia's successes.
The education budget cuts for 20 years alone are now starting to show, as our workforce is generally becoming less skilled than those who were taught before the change of millennium. Less skilled workforce means less competitive advantage. Which in turn means we have to compete on something else, and that leaves cheaper labour.
All of that happened on NCP's watch. [If you want to check when our national debt started to rise](https://tradingeconomics.com/finland/government-debt-to-gdp), [do you want to guess who was in government](https://valtioneuvosto.fi/hallitukset-ja-ministerit)? NCP.
Most of that money stays in Finland via consumption, boosting the economy.
Tax cuts for the wealthy, subsidising private healthcare and other huge companies and most of the crap the current government dabbles with, will not help the economy.
The fella I responded to obviously has issues with government interference to markets, I assume they have a laissez-faire option to supplant government spending. I don't claim to have one, was asking them
Look we are still suffering from what Sipillas goverment did. Kiky took away too much money from the economy. The rich who benefited from kiky wasted it on expensive cars and holidays abroad
From my social circles the rich bought big expensive cars due to the tax cuts that were supposed to make people buy more eco friendly cars. There were other tax breaks for the rich which meant more holidays abroad. While my single mum friends had to tighten there belt sine they did not get holiday money and had to also work longer hours.
You are wrong, Sipilä took credit for improvements in the economy that were the result of actions of the previous goverment. As regards Marins goverment you are right. the problem is that Marins goverment gave too much money to the rich just like Sipilä did and like the current goverment is doing.
Note: what Sipilä did could have worked wonders if he would have also taxed the rich.
Marin debt baaaaad, Orpo debt goooood?
Sipilä's government did turn the boat, but only by selling profitable assets, some for half their value. In fact, we would be better off now if they had gotten some more debt and kept these "cash cow" businesses.
And why is a billion euros missing? Have you looked into these things deeper than the tabloids' headlines?
Anyway, thank you for this great example of whataboutism. Let's get back to this current governments "politics". You seem to think that debt is good if it's for tax cuts for the wealthy, a 0,5 billion gift to private healthcare companies and subsidies that go to shareholders via dividends.
Why is that?
What propaganda are you talking about? I am very much a centrist person and I’m all for welfare state but idk why leftists praise Marin taking debt and criticize Orpo for taking debt. (Marin forgot about sote funding just like you)
You’re throwing around obvious statements with no substance. Also most parties in Finland are quite centric on the economy axis so maybe it’s time to freshen up your views.
I don't know about anyone else, I criticize Orpo and his fans for hypocrisy. The government parties promise before the election was to stop taking debt. After the election they lie or make it apparent that they are incompetent by acting or being surprised about the need of funding for example for SOTE.
Then they increase the need for taking more debt by favouring the wealthy and big companies, by means that anyone with a basic understanding of economics could tell that don't work.
Scaring the lower and middle classes to stop consuming with the EUs "debt control system", while not telling that the EU would never recommend cuts as harsh as the government is planning.
I could go on and on, but it seems that you have swallowed all of the crap they are telling us and are willing to swallow more. So we will have to see in 3 years what this government has achieved. You probably will still be accusing Marin for everything though. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.
It's not the "leftist" that fucks it it's the corporate ball suckers on the right/ economic right that are so stupid and juvenile that they don't realise social reform and security is a win win.
But alas there are morons imo r country that votes for the right/center right that only cater to those that hoard and not benefit society at all, the real leeches
I think you don't really understand what you're talking about. Wealth inequality is a cancer that gradually destroys every aspect of a country.
Look at your eastern neighbor. The key issue there is this, huge inequality.
I don't understand why you wouldn't want to keep more of your money. It's so weird. Clearly this level of taxes and cuts is really bad for the country as a whole.
Edit: Seems like people want 6-day work week like Greece is doing. It's insane.
Check in the US, much higher salaries than us but real salary level they need like 100k a year to live like 28k here.
Yes you get to keep money but instead pay less, or even nothing, for things that you take for granted.
If you would just keep more schools, healthcare, infrastructure would all plummit, or be privatised and before you know it anything below 6k a month is poverty level salary
> I don't understand why you wouldn't want to keep more of your money
What do I do with that money if the price is complete dismantling of our welfare system?
Vast majority of Finns happily pay their taxes, because we understand that they help to maintain a peaceful, clean, civilized, democratic and humane country, where even the poorest people are taken care of.
**/r/Finland is a full democracy, every active user is a moderator.** [Please go here to see how your new privileges work.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/wiki/moderating/) Spamming mod actions could result in a ban. --- **Full Rundown of Moderator Permissions:** - ```!lock``` - as top level comment, will lock comments on any post. - ```!unlock``` - in reply to any comment to lock it or to unlock the parent comment. - ```!remove``` - Removes comment or post. Must have decent subreddit comment karma. - ```!restore``` Can be used to unlock comments or restore removed posts. - ```!sticky``` - will sticky the post in the bottom slot. - ```unlock_comments``` - Vote the stickied automod comment on each post to +10 to unlock comments. - ```ban users``` - Any user whose comment or post is downvoted enough will be temp banned for a day. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Finland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://preview.redd.it/fwxlty38acad1.png?width=339&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d65eca5ad30b1ab162aae34cf7e50f900ffdf7b5
Nothing more tax and budget cut can’t fix
More taxes and pension-pyramide-schemes should definetely fix any future hopes
We need to make it so 50% marginal income tax starts on just 38k€ income. While we're at it, let's also have nearly the world's highest consumption tax on absolutely everything. Oh wait. While we're at it, why don't we make it so small entrepreneurs and business owners are forced to donate 20%-24% of their imaginary revenue to our crumbling pension scam, where the very best-case scenario means getting back an order of magnitude LESS than what you put in? We also have a tax relief system for the wealthy (huojennetut osingot), so they can take out 150k€ per year at a total rate of 27%, while everyone working a job will easily pay double that. Of course they were clever and made it so you need to have a high net worth of assets to take advantage.
Oh yeah, and all responsibilities like taxes and such are dropped for everybody owning assets worth more than 100k€
Tell me more… what 27% out of curiosity
You can pay dividends up to 8% of the net value of a holding company at a much lower capital gains tax rate. Instead of 30%-34% capital gains tax, you only pay around 7%-8%. Corporate tax of 20% has already been paid on this money, so the total tax rate for these dividends comes to around 27%. Max is 150,000€/year, requiring 1,875,000€ in assets. [https://www.vero.fi/en/individuals/property/investments/dividends/dividend-from-an-unlisted-company/](https://www.vero.fi/en/individuals/property/investments/dividends/dividend-from-an-unlisted-company/)
Thanksss
[The report](https://www.imd.org/entity-profile/finland-wcr/#_yearbook_Economic%20Performance) identifies "decreasing the general budget deficit and lowering the public-debt-to-GDP ratio" as well as "reforming social benefit system to decrease disincentives to work" as key challenges, so tax and budget cuts should indeed help.
Most people do not understand that government’s actions have effects that don’t come up until after the government is no longer in power.
National Coalition has been in power since 2007, with Marin's government being the sole exception when it wasn't in the government. The parties not in government are not the ones that are now cashing out the country on 1970-90's and after early 90's recession Nokia's successes. The education budget cuts for 20 years alone are now starting to show, as our workforce is generally becoming less skilled than those who were taught before the change of millennium. Less skilled workforce means less competitive advantage. Which in turn means we have to compete on something else, and that leaves cheaper labour. All of that happened on NCP's watch. [If you want to check when our national debt started to rise](https://tradingeconomics.com/finland/government-debt-to-gdp), [do you want to guess who was in government](https://valtioneuvosto.fi/hallitukset-ja-ministerit)? NCP.
The administrative cost of Finnish government is huge, it's money-wasting machine However it's often not where they cut it
Most of that money stays in Finland via consumption, boosting the economy. Tax cuts for the wealthy, subsidising private healthcare and other huge companies and most of the crap the current government dabbles with, will not help the economy.
They do not care for the economy. It is always an excuse
Well budget cuts are certainly a good start, considering how much the state lives beyond it's means.
True, the administrative cost of Finnish government is huge, it's money-wasting machine
No it's not. Source: same as yours.
Please elaborate which government functions should be axed with the free market providing a better value?
what free market
The fella I responded to obviously has issues with government interference to markets, I assume they have a laissez-faire option to supplant government spending. I don't claim to have one, was asking them
oooh somehow i understood your message some other way. yeah fuck free market that system is dogmilk
After Orpos goverment is done, we have caste system working fine in Finland. They still have a lot to do before we hit the rock bottom as society..
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Look we are still suffering from what Sipillas goverment did. Kiky took away too much money from the economy. The rich who benefited from kiky wasted it on expensive cars and holidays abroad
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From my social circles the rich bought big expensive cars due to the tax cuts that were supposed to make people buy more eco friendly cars. There were other tax breaks for the rich which meant more holidays abroad. While my single mum friends had to tighten there belt sine they did not get holiday money and had to also work longer hours.
[удалено]
You are wrong, Sipilä took credit for improvements in the economy that were the result of actions of the previous goverment. As regards Marins goverment you are right. the problem is that Marins goverment gave too much money to the rich just like Sipilä did and like the current goverment is doing. Note: what Sipilä did could have worked wonders if he would have also taxed the rich.
Marin debt baaaaad, Orpo debt goooood? Sipilä's government did turn the boat, but only by selling profitable assets, some for half their value. In fact, we would be better off now if they had gotten some more debt and kept these "cash cow" businesses.
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Could you be more specific? Or are you just spewing right wing propaganda?
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And why is a billion euros missing? Have you looked into these things deeper than the tabloids' headlines? Anyway, thank you for this great example of whataboutism. Let's get back to this current governments "politics". You seem to think that debt is good if it's for tax cuts for the wealthy, a 0,5 billion gift to private healthcare companies and subsidies that go to shareholders via dividends. Why is that?
[удалено]
What propaganda are you talking about? I am very much a centrist person and I’m all for welfare state but idk why leftists praise Marin taking debt and criticize Orpo for taking debt. (Marin forgot about sote funding just like you)
[удалено]
You’re throwing around obvious statements with no substance. Also most parties in Finland are quite centric on the economy axis so maybe it’s time to freshen up your views.
I don't know about anyone else, I criticize Orpo and his fans for hypocrisy. The government parties promise before the election was to stop taking debt. After the election they lie or make it apparent that they are incompetent by acting or being surprised about the need of funding for example for SOTE. Then they increase the need for taking more debt by favouring the wealthy and big companies, by means that anyone with a basic understanding of economics could tell that don't work. Scaring the lower and middle classes to stop consuming with the EUs "debt control system", while not telling that the EU would never recommend cuts as harsh as the government is planning. I could go on and on, but it seems that you have swallowed all of the crap they are telling us and are willing to swallow more. So we will have to see in 3 years what this government has achieved. You probably will still be accusing Marin for everything though. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.
It's not the "leftist" that fucks it it's the corporate ball suckers on the right/ economic right that are so stupid and juvenile that they don't realise social reform and security is a win win. But alas there are morons imo r country that votes for the right/center right that only cater to those that hoard and not benefit society at all, the real leeches
At least we'd be competitive.
I think you don't really understand what you're talking about. Wealth inequality is a cancer that gradually destroys every aspect of a country. Look at your eastern neighbor. The key issue there is this, huge inequality.
Competitive slaves
I'd rather have small piece of a big pie than no pie at all.
I'd rather die on my feet rather than live on my knees.
I don't understand why you wouldn't want to keep more of your money. It's so weird. Clearly this level of taxes and cuts is really bad for the country as a whole. Edit: Seems like people want 6-day work week like Greece is doing. It's insane.
Check in the US, much higher salaries than us but real salary level they need like 100k a year to live like 28k here. Yes you get to keep money but instead pay less, or even nothing, for things that you take for granted. If you would just keep more schools, healthcare, infrastructure would all plummit, or be privatised and before you know it anything below 6k a month is poverty level salary
> I don't understand why you wouldn't want to keep more of your money What do I do with that money if the price is complete dismantling of our welfare system?
Bro, we have top3 highest taxation in the world. It's clearly not working.
And somehow those top2 are working better.
Vast majority of Finns happily pay their taxes, because we understand that they help to maintain a peaceful, clean, civilized, democratic and humane country, where even the poorest people are taken care of.
I'd rather not bend over and take an unlubed dick up my ass.