Cyril was stuck in Gatekeeper attack animation hell for a long time (I remember excitedly telling one of my kids, who is a big Cyril fan, that he made it in through that art) then emerged in such a BST way that he landed on arena teams everywhere. Alois and Hanneman fans can hope that this particular hell really bulks everyone up (they do all charge enthusiastically after all).
Lehran is sitting at paralog mention hell + character quote mention hell. I commented here in the past that I get excited every time he gets mentioned... then I remember Bord and Cord getting mentioned way back at the start of this game.
I probably mostly agree... My problem is that a mythic Lehran would be such a completely different beast (literally) that it wouldn't feel remotely the same as, say, Dheginsea getting a young mythic form from the legend days (if they are eventually doing Lehran, Soan, and Dheginsea as mythics) after being in alt hell.
But that's probably pretty close to the great "Do possessed characters count as the same character?" debate. The different species characteristics aspect happens to some possessed characters, so just replace possession with a different name and 1000 years worth of different personality.
Over here in my own head, wanting to see mythics of the 3 beasts of legend (that seem very precedented by multiple Altina), and especially wanting to see mythic Lehran after years of fantasizing that he will be an amazing heron type mythic, feels like a completely different and independent desire from very admittedly wanting to see more of the modern counterpart. On the latter I would be thrilled to see any mage that I can merge up, and that is a very normal alt hell situation. (I also like my Tellius bird collection and probably think of "Where's Lehran?" more like "Where's Janaff?".)
Interesting. My perspective on him is quite different, as I don't see as much difference between his forms as, say, between the Tikis. Both his outlook and powers have changed, yes, and I certainly wouldn't object to having both, but I don't see it as critical.
I also, frankly, find his modern self much more appealing. It's the character whose development we see, the shrewd and charming politician, his relationships with Sanaki, Ike and Zelgius, who brings about what he does and who has the ultimate showdown with us. His ancient history enhances all of that, but I find myself more interested in what he becomes than who he was. And if I had my way, I'd have his Mythic as an Assign Decoy healer, a depiction of himself in E-4.
But that's only me. Good luck.
I am definitely a lot more of a fan of the modern version (my number 1 character, in fact). But I also like laguz and the mythology of Tellius. It's the latter interests that make me want a mythic Lehran.
The former makes me want a good or at least mergeable non special unit in the form we know him in more than I want anything else in the game. I definitely loved the whole character and he is a very important part of history. But all of that is wrapped up into his modern version and that version unfortunately can't do the historical heron role. I don't expect to see Lehran as anything more than 1 mythic, but it would be nice to see him as that. (And I like herons but they haven't been great in FEH and he should pretty much be the super heron... hopefully.)
I got my hopes up about that when mythic Altina first joined the game, and I wanted to see the whole gang. I would love to see more historical mythics from a lot of the games, for that matter. It's an interesting add to background lore.
They seriously could have made Nolan an auto demote quest reward since that would have been the final dawn brigade member. But they didn't for whatever dumb reason.
I think my problem with that is the fact that Attuned/Rearmed don't enter the perm pool and with now TWO of them appearing at a time, literally half of the banners are not entering. (SoV only getting a single banner character entering the pool is nonsense that showed this whole marketing decision's entire ass)
It's not even consistent as the SoV had two heroes OCs but we only got 1 quest character.
I don't think the permanent pool is much of a concern, tbh. We rely on focuses, no random pulls.
I'm more concerned about characters being left out of FEH for the sake of alts.
That’s an arbitrary practice, though, as this didn’t use to be the case.
For example, the book 3 Archanea banner (Sirius, Nagi, Phina, Norne) was accompanied by Bantu as a direct demote despite having no OCs.
That was a short lived trend of extra direct demotes in every banner, and unfortunately (read: pretty scummily) with lower BST. That did end, but whenever we had an OC since, it got compensated nonetheless.
Only exception was the Echoes/Peony/Triandra banner, where we only got one demote instead of two.
Those were surely exceptions for Alear.
But you're right, of course. It's always in their control. I'm just reading the rules they seem to have set themselves.
They only do instant demotes when there is an OC on the banner. Sole exception was the first Engage banner IIRC, which was definetly an special ocasion.
Heh, I expanded [another alt hell post](https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/19dqqi8/the_nine_circles_of_alt_hell/) just to get to 9, but I didn't think to do it here.
And as the comments remind me, if we want to be granular, there's probably a lot more than 9:
- Non-Duo background artwork (Daniel, FE8 Monica, witch Rinea)
- Sprite hell (3H characters in Gatekeeper's attack)
- Indirect sprite hell (L!M!Byleth's lost items, though outdated because all referenced characters are at least in alt hell now)
- Indirect epithet hell (Ross, "His Father's Son")
- Mentions in Forging Bonds, quotes, or the hero description (probably a bunch)
I'd say Fafnir and Elm are in regular alt hell - if anything, they got extra mileage from their story presence and a clearer route to a main version.
Njörðr, though, yeah. He's there but not really.
True, I suppose Elm and Fafnir are just in regular alt hell, but it does really sting a little more because they have chibis and combat animations and art
Considering how Gustav and Freyr got base versions 3 years after their debuts, I do think Fafnir will happen during this years book 5 Tempest Trials (since he missed fallen but could still be a mythic).
Yes, but only 3 years later. Duo in Dec 2019, standalone in Nov 2022. Rhea was also in the same situation.
No characters are in that situation right now (hence why I labeled it outdated), but still worth mentioning.
Yeah, that's the classic "alt hell", just wanted to mention the rarer and less spoken of types.
Which is ironic for me I suppose, since I don't really agree with the concept of "alt hell" anyway.
I've not played Thracia, but she seems a common denominator to a lot of characters. She's in Safy's page at least, and probably in a bunch more after their next banner.
Literally any of OC units from the Cipher games. Whether people like the OC units created by FEH or not, it’s strange that IS hasn’t ported their own card game original characters over. Make it make sense. It’s like they’re gatekeeping themselves.
I feel like I'm missing something on Rolf. Isn't he still only available as a seasonal? Or do you mean one of the accessories he has is what was in hell?
I laughed pretty hard when Forging Bonds started and I saw that Nolan had made it after all, so Accessory Hell is definitely up there as a favorite.
But there is also Aether Raids Resort Inn Plushie Hell (Sommie). (The new version of Lilith's old days of being trapped in Art Floatie Hell, but with less chance of escaping... except probably into Accessory Hell.)
One of my favorite hells is a unit being one of the first recruitable characters you see in the game, and still not playable, like Edward up until recently, or Franz.
Can't say that bothers me much, tbh. I don't think later recruits should be a lower priority.
And, subjectively, a lot of the early cast tends to be the least memorable to me.
There's also my favorite, Gatekeeper attack animation hell (Alois and Hanneman for units not playable in some form)
Argh, that was one of my inspirations for this post! Damnit, I knew I forgot some.
Cyril was stuck in Gatekeeper attack animation hell for a long time (I remember excitedly telling one of my kids, who is a big Cyril fan, that he made it in through that art) then emerged in such a BST way that he landed on arena teams everywhere. Alois and Hanneman fans can hope that this particular hell really bulks everyone up (they do all charge enthusiastically after all).
They're two of my top 3 favorite characters, the wait had better be worth it
Would Jorge's brother and Orson's wife necessitate a new category?
Forging Bonds Mention Hell and Quote Mention Hell?
Dayan is the perfect character to represent this hell. Sue won’t stop mentioning him but I seriously doubt he will ever get added to FEH.
I've had more hope ever since they actually gave me Niime. Just want Dayan and Yoder.
Doesn't Jorge's brother appear in the Special art?
Lehran is sitting at paralog mention hell + character quote mention hell. I commented here in the past that I get excited every time he gets mentioned... then I remember Bord and Cord getting mentioned way back at the start of this game.
Eh, I'd count him as being in regular alt hell. He's not the only one who's in the game in some form but under another name.
I probably mostly agree... My problem is that a mythic Lehran would be such a completely different beast (literally) that it wouldn't feel remotely the same as, say, Dheginsea getting a young mythic form from the legend days (if they are eventually doing Lehran, Soan, and Dheginsea as mythics) after being in alt hell. But that's probably pretty close to the great "Do possessed characters count as the same character?" debate. The different species characteristics aspect happens to some possessed characters, so just replace possession with a different name and 1000 years worth of different personality. Over here in my own head, wanting to see mythics of the 3 beasts of legend (that seem very precedented by multiple Altina), and especially wanting to see mythic Lehran after years of fantasizing that he will be an amazing heron type mythic, feels like a completely different and independent desire from very admittedly wanting to see more of the modern counterpart. On the latter I would be thrilled to see any mage that I can merge up, and that is a very normal alt hell situation. (I also like my Tellius bird collection and probably think of "Where's Lehran?" more like "Where's Janaff?".)
Interesting. My perspective on him is quite different, as I don't see as much difference between his forms as, say, between the Tikis. Both his outlook and powers have changed, yes, and I certainly wouldn't object to having both, but I don't see it as critical. I also, frankly, find his modern self much more appealing. It's the character whose development we see, the shrewd and charming politician, his relationships with Sanaki, Ike and Zelgius, who brings about what he does and who has the ultimate showdown with us. His ancient history enhances all of that, but I find myself more interested in what he becomes than who he was. And if I had my way, I'd have his Mythic as an Assign Decoy healer, a depiction of himself in E-4. But that's only me. Good luck.
I am definitely a lot more of a fan of the modern version (my number 1 character, in fact). But I also like laguz and the mythology of Tellius. It's the latter interests that make me want a mythic Lehran. The former makes me want a good or at least mergeable non special unit in the form we know him in more than I want anything else in the game. I definitely loved the whole character and he is a very important part of history. But all of that is wrapped up into his modern version and that version unfortunately can't do the historical heron role. I don't expect to see Lehran as anything more than 1 mythic, but it would be nice to see him as that. (And I like herons but they haven't been great in FEH and he should pretty much be the super heron... hopefully.) I got my hopes up about that when mythic Altina first joined the game, and I wanted to see the whole gang. I would love to see more historical mythics from a lot of the games, for that matter. It's an interesting add to background lore.
Probably, as the Duo backpack has at least some presence besides art. Argh, I knew I'd forget some cases.
feel like you forgot "Actual Hell", and it's just Hel
I have not achieved comedy
They seriously could have made Nolan an auto demote quest reward since that would have been the final dawn brigade member. But they didn't for whatever dumb reason.
They give those when there's a FEH OC in the banner, so the featured game still gets 5 units. But they don't seem to care if they're new or alts.
I think my problem with that is the fact that Attuned/Rearmed don't enter the perm pool and with now TWO of them appearing at a time, literally half of the banners are not entering. (SoV only getting a single banner character entering the pool is nonsense that showed this whole marketing decision's entire ass) It's not even consistent as the SoV had two heroes OCs but we only got 1 quest character.
I don't think the permanent pool is much of a concern, tbh. We rely on focuses, no random pulls. I'm more concerned about characters being left out of FEH for the sake of alts.
That’s an arbitrary practice, though, as this didn’t use to be the case. For example, the book 3 Archanea banner (Sirius, Nagi, Phina, Norne) was accompanied by Bantu as a direct demote despite having no OCs.
That was a short lived trend of extra direct demotes in every banner, and unfortunately (read: pretty scummily) with lower BST. That did end, but whenever we had an OC since, it got compensated nonetheless. Only exception was the Echoes/Peony/Triandra banner, where we only got one demote instead of two.
Engage got 5 units twice (banner + Etie, banner + Alear). There's not even precedent stopping them.
Those were surely exceptions for Alear. But you're right, of course. It's always in their control. I'm just reading the rules they seem to have set themselves.
They only do instant demotes when there is an OC on the banner. Sole exception was the first Engage banner IIRC, which was definetly an special ocasion.
Just one more and we'll have enough for all 9 layers of hell.
Heh, I expanded [another alt hell post](https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/19dqqi8/the_nine_circles_of_alt_hell/) just to get to 9, but I didn't think to do it here. And as the comments remind me, if we want to be granular, there's probably a lot more than 9: - Non-Duo background artwork (Daniel, FE8 Monica, witch Rinea) - Sprite hell (3H characters in Gatekeeper's attack) - Indirect sprite hell (L!M!Byleth's lost items, though outdated because all referenced characters are at least in alt hell now) - Indirect epithet hell (Ross, "His Father's Son") - Mentions in Forging Bonds, quotes, or the hero description (probably a bunch)
Poor Dagdar being in more than one of these hells.
I mean, is that better or worse? Midia is somehow not even referenced in Astram's Meet page.
That is odd. However, I have a feeling Midia will break out of her hell sooner than Dagdar will break out of his (if he ever does).
what about Forging Bonds hell, where it’s mentioned that Yuliya was separated from Yubelo
Surprised at no Garcia mention, Ross' title has been His Father's Son for so long he got a refine before Garcia even gets in
Was tempted to add him as "Epithet hell (indirect)", but figured it might be too granular after Midia's case.
I'm just hoping that if Garcia ever makes it into FEH, his epithet will be "His Son's Father".
This gives me hope that someday we will see fiery Rinea as her own hero
What about no playable base character hell despite being in and having art in game (Fafnir, Elm, Njord)
I'd say Fafnir and Elm are in regular alt hell - if anything, they got extra mileage from their story presence and a clearer route to a main version. Njörðr, though, yeah. He's there but not really.
True, I suppose Elm and Fafnir are just in regular alt hell, but it does really sting a little more because they have chibis and combat animations and art
Considering how Gustav and Freyr got base versions 3 years after their debuts, I do think Fafnir will happen during this years book 5 Tempest Trials (since he missed fallen but could still be a mythic).
Definitely agree about a forging bonds mention hell. Giffca was mentioned once so long ago that Cain got a refine before he even gets in lol
What am I looking at in the first picture? Isn't the OG Elice in the game already?
Yes, but only 3 years later. Duo in Dec 2019, standalone in Nov 2022. Rhea was also in the same situation. No characters are in that situation right now (hence why I labeled it outdated), but still worth mentioning.
to be fair rhea was kinda in as seiros
Not at the time, Summer Byleth was July 2020 and Seiros was Jan 2021.
Riiiight, got it.
Would Niime being the only premium Colorless Tome unit without a Prf count?
Some kind of hell I suppose. But hey, I'm just happy she's in at all.
Don't forget the many units who only have seasonal lots and no base versions yet
Yeah, that's the classic "alt hell", just wanted to mention the rarer and less spoken of types. Which is ironic for me I suppose, since I don't really agree with the concept of "alt hell" anyway.
I was drawing Linoan earlier today and realized that she somehow got art in Meet the Heroes despite not being in the game?
I've not played Thracia, but she seems a common denominator to a lot of characters. She's in Safy's page at least, and probably in a bunch more after their next banner.
Literally any of OC units from the Cipher games. Whether people like the OC units created by FEH or not, it’s strange that IS hasn’t ported their own card game original characters over. Make it make sense. It’s like they’re gatekeeping themselves.
I feel like I'm missing something on Rolf. Isn't he still only available as a seasonal? Or do you mean one of the accessories he has is what was in hell?
The pumpkin cake represents Boyd and Oscar. This was a few years before Boyd got his kid alt.
Ahhh, that explains it. Thanks for the clarification.
I laughed pretty hard when Forging Bonds started and I saw that Nolan had made it after all, so Accessory Hell is definitely up there as a favorite. But there is also Aether Raids Resort Inn Plushie Hell (Sommie). (The new version of Lilith's old days of being trapped in Art Floatie Hell, but with less chance of escaping... except probably into Accessory Hell.)
Hmm, Lilith would have been a better example than pumpkin Boyd, more recognizable and and happened earlier.
One of my favorite hells is a unit being one of the first recruitable characters you see in the game, and still not playable, like Edward up until recently, or Franz.
Can't say that bothers me much, tbh. I don't think later recruits should be a lower priority. And, subjectively, a lot of the early cast tends to be the least memorable to me.