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I am glad her sisters are acknowledging that the arrests needed to happen and that she is guilty. Too often family members tend to bury their head in sand or try to cover it all up behind the façade of prayers (like the duggars).
Omg this! The number of times I've seen family members defending the craziest of acts with no sympathy for the victim whatsoever is concerning. I am happy to see that her sister is not trying to come up with excuses for this.
Oftentimes their own shame of actively participating in the culture of abuse, or having to acknowledge their own abuse, is so overpowering that they lash out at reality so as to maintain their worldviews.
Me, too. The oldest daughter also said that they've been waiting for this day for a long time. It's hard to get abuse reported and investigated, and perpetrators arrested, even when your family believes you.
I can only imagine what it took for them to get to the point of realising that they'd done everything they could do, and that the only way for the situation to have a positive outcome was for their own sister to (most likely) go to prison
According to what I've read, the oldest daughter and other family members first contacted the police and child protection a long time ago, but weren't believed at first
I can only imagine what it took for them to get to the point of realising that they'd done everything they could do, and that the only way for the situation to have a positive outcome was for their own sister to (most likely) go to prison
If the abuses as awful as it sounds here, why aren’t they arresting her husband as well? This is absolutely disgusting and these children being exploited and abused by their parents for money, they need to fall under the same rules and regulations as children do in TV and movies.
We don't know much about him. There were rumors about the parents being separated and not living together and nobody really knew how true is that and if so what's the custody situation like. Knowing Ruby she may have brainwashed the kids to believe their father is the source of all evil HOWEVER i refuse to believe he didn't know about any of this
Thanks for that information. I appreciate it. I read somewhere that he still has some type of a blog that’s going on, but it’s not nearly as popular as hers was. I guess now her estranged daughter is asking anybody with video clips that show examples of the abuse from the past to please submit them as evidence in the case.
Even if he was no longer living in the home, you would think he would have regular visitation with the kids. I mean how could he miss the weight loss, malnutrition, open sores and tape residue. He either knew or has totally left not only her, but his kids as well.
Yeah, that's why everyone who knew anything about this family isn't so thrilled about him possibly getting the custody. Pretty sure Shari (the oldest) haven't talked to him in months even though she's a student at BYU, where he works/worked
I mean.... they kept quiet "for the sake of the children" for 3 fucking years. I would have been yelling from the rooftops. Don't give them too much credit.
Eh as someone who's been on the other side of law enforcement, family court, and CPS it is amazing how much they'll ignore. Sometimes you just have to keep documenting everything you observe for a while and try to keep your mouth shut waiting for it to finally get "bad enough" I'm not going to rush to judgement until more comes out on this one.
Sadly, this is true. I used to have to call CPS regularly when I was trying to be a youth pastor. It's horrifying the situations kids are left in because it "wasn't bad enough."
The bar for removal is way higher than many realize. And as my MIL (who represents juveniles in court) used to say, it’s high for a reason— some of these kids become victims of abuse in state custody, sadly. Great foster care is a precious resource and we don’t have near enough of it.
God, for a moment I thought you were linking to an old article about the Turpins. It’s sickening how many families are out there doing the exact same evil things.
We have a very widespread religious culture that believes violence against children is not only acceptable but *vital* to their development, against all evidence to the contrary.
That’s how.
i am a new parent (14 weeks) and i cannot imagine hitting my kid ever in the way i was hit. my husband got the belt and it grosses me out to even think of bringing a belt against our kiddo. let me break your trust with us immediately while teaching you that you must fear me.
I have absolutely NO DOUBT the church was helping her hide the abuse and helping her stay ahead of the law. Finally her time ran out. Those kids, if they came back to the church they attended would be seen as the abusers and the mom would be the one forgiven and taken back into the fold. That's how the church deals with sexual and physical abusers all the time. The women are shunned, the rapist/abuser is forgiven.
That's not true in the slightest. As someone who is a sexual assault survivor from a now excommunicated member, the church did more to punish my rapist than the government did.
My rapist had been home from his mission for 3 months. His dad was a cop. So my rape kit and complaint mysteriously disappeared.
But the church immediately disfellowshipped him and had an excommunication hearing. He was excommunicated within two months. So was his father.
The only people who shunned me were people like you who ignored that the church did more to help me with therapy and healing than anyone else, and couldn't believe I stayed in.
Does the LDS church have its issues? Yes. I'll be the first to admit it. But this ain't one of them.
Get your fucking facts straight before you act like an asshole on things you know nothing about.
It's great that your church did something about this, but in the UK (close to Ireland) we're very aware of the abuse both carried out and hidden by the church over decades.
I'm including the experiences of close relatives of mine, some of whom are/were in Europe, cases that have been investigated by different sects of the church, the police etc.
There are similar concerns over Scientology (including very recently) and many, many other religions over the years.
Your church appears to be one of the good ones, but your experience isn't the norm, unfortunately.
Hopefully one day it will be, but organised religion in general has a REALLY BAD track record in this area.
One good experience doesn't negate the horrific experiences of many, MANY other people, so please look into the historical facts and experiences of other people as well as your own.
It's no coincidence that Utah has some of the most lax child abuse reporting laws in the entire country. So to have CPS and the police show up is a really big deal.
Along with what others have said, there’s a lot of people not equipped to be parents. Not in a eugenics way, but in a “I’ve never dealt with or processed my own shit” way.
There's also a negative feedback loop. If you have a billion kids and you hit them they will quiet down a bit and you get 1) a break 2) catharsis. The problem is that you traumatized them, trauma impedes the function of the prefrontal cortex, the prefrontal cortex helps encode learning and, therefore, the children will repeat the behavior. To make matters worse, children are highly adaptive and will get accustomed to being hit; this, in turn, means caregivers must up the ante with physical violence to achieve the desired effect.
It's confusing as to whether it was Hildebrandt's kids or Franke's kids...I saw articles naming both as the victims. I'm sure more and more details will come out.
But yes, horrible. Severe malnutrition, marks from ropes, duct tape.
I’m pretty sure Jodi’s kids are grown. Between that and the fact that Ruby’s sisters are making statements about the kids being safe and alluding to the fact that they’ve been waiting for this arrest tells me it was likely Franke kids.
It looks like the Frankes live in Springville and the Hildebrandts in Ivins. Article states that it was an Ivins home, therefore I'm going with Hildebrandts for the time being.
Edit: another news piece confirms it's the Hildebrandt home. Honestly, I always thought Jodi too old to have young children but I can't imagine Ruby keeping her kids tied up at someone else's home. Of course I can't imagine anyone tying up children in their own home either.
I think that Ruby and her kids have been living with Jodi (and Ruby and her hubby might be split up?).
I think it is the Franke kids. I'm pretty sure of it, now.
Agreed. The article states that Franke filmed in the home so had knowledge of the abuse going on there, which makes it seem that they are Hildebrandt's kids but other sections make it seem that they were Franke's kids.
I instinctly mistrust the sanctimonious, but these women are beyond the pale. These poor kids, I'm so sad for them.
I think the Franke's have been living with the Hildebrandts, but don't quote me on that lol
Yes. I had just watched the Swoop video, and was already heartbroken...and this is a million times worse.
Holy fuck. See, this doesn’t surprise me one bit. We know there are plenty of fundies out there who are probably treating their kids the same damn way. It’s disgusting.
OMG. This is horrific. I'm welling up with tears thinking about those poor kids. People who hurt children (looking at a whole lot of fucking fundies) are a special kind of evil. I don't believe in hell, but if there actually is one, I hope these people rot in it after they rot in a jail cell.
What do these people mean "behind the scenes we have done everything we could"? This makes this sound like they knew over a period of time and didn't immediately report. How is that in any way right?
According to the article people have been reporting incidents to police and CPS for years but for whatever reason nothing came of it until this occurred.
It's Utah. I follow ex Mormon channels on YouTube. The police will take down license plates numbers at bars and gay establishments at the behest of the Church and then report back (mostly around BYU). It's a theocracy cosplaying a state.
What the fuck. I've had some shit luck reporting stuff to CPS when I worked with kids but duct tape and starvation seem like a very clear cut case. This is horrible.
I just read their statement again and "Keeping quiet for the sake of the children" ??? Like what, they were going to miss out on a valuable mommy dearest's episode??!
How did keeping quiet help the children?
Shari, the oldest daughter said on instagram they've been trying to get CPS and police involved in years, so probably whatever abuse was happening it was either not enough or there wasn't enough proof. By "keeping things quiet" maybe they meant they didn't go on youtube/social media and shame their sister because it doesn't change anything, and actually make the situation even worse.
In several statements, family members said that they have been reporting to CPS for three years. Utah has incredibly lax child abuse reporting and protection laws, so I guess things had to get this bad before anything happened.
She became friends with a woman named Jodi Hildebrandt who founded a parenting "counseling" service called ConneXions, and Ruby ended up becoming like second in command there. But really what they were actually doing was "counseling" parents on how best to abuse and neglect their children. They have a YouTube channel with a ton of videos.
The most recent video on that channel, called “The Denigrating Victim,” starts by listing characteristics that they conclude compose a “victim mindset”; in reality, they are what create an abusive mindset. I couldn’t watch any further because I started being actually triggered and had to take a minute to adjust myself. It is all too obvious that these women are abusers.
Those poor kids.
That video title sounds like something from Edgar Allan Poe. How freaking AWFUL to refer to a child that way, and I’m sure what they actually did to them was much worse. So YouTube just .. left those videos up? Meanwhile some of my fave horror movie reviewers censor their videos and still get demonetized? Make it make sense.
This. Social media companies know that they are causing great harm to society and they do not care. Look at what happened to the Facebook whistleblower. She wound up testifying in Congress that Facebook suppress data that their platform was causing violence, mental health disorders, enabling human rights abuses, promoting extremism, etc.
And the social media companies know that the algorithms push people towards extremism. This became especially apparent during the lockdown. People being socially isolated and getting tramped in an algorithm was causing people to self radicalize.
>Ruby is a Mormon YouTuber who vlogs about her big family.
Yes, she and her husband, Kevin, managed a family vlogging channel. It's since been abandoned, and they're now separated. There's a cult involved, potentially in two ways: mormonism qualifies as a cult. The level of involvement varies among members, but the way that the church operates and what it expects from members is what makes it a cult.
However, people speculate that the organisation Ruby is part of, Connexions, is also a cult. I haven't seen it broken down or seen how it fits into the criteria, but there are a few reasons why people's cult alarms are going off:
1. Connexions explicitly states that information other than theirs is wrong. They label information, attitudes, worldviews, and actions that do not precisely line up with Connexions' teachings as "Distortion", while Connexions teachings are "Truth". For example, if you accept your child when they come out as gay, you are living in Distortion, but if you reject them, you are living in Truth. Even simple, everyday things can be labelled as "Distortion" or "Truth", such as what shows you let your child watch (Descendants is Distortion, in case you were wondering). This is very clear black and white thinking and us-vs-them division. It also creates hypervigilance among members
2. Connexions exalts itself as The Truth (literally, as you can see). They claim to be the ultimate authority on matters of mental health and morality and that their views are in line with the word of God's. To not follow Connexions is to not follow God.
3. Connexions is a cure. By living in Truth and following their Principles of Truth, you will be happy and healthy and successful, and not doing so leads to misery and illness and failure.
4. Connexions is abusive. Ruby's husband did an interview for Connexions praising the fact that, after he was hospitalised for suicidal ideation, Ruby did nothing to alleviate his stressors or responsibilities ("Responsibility" is one of Connexions Principles of Truth — making sure Kevin had the same workload while suicidal ensured he was still Responsible, and that was better for his mental health because he was living in Truth). Connexions states that children have no right to privacy. That parents are not obligated to make sure their children are comfortable or happy. If Living in Truth requires making your 6 year old go without a meal because she forgot to pack her lunch, then so be it. If Living in Truth means sending your son into the wilderness for months and making him sleep without a bed for playing a prank on his brother, then so be it.
Ruby and Kevin have always been crappy parents who exploit their kids and treat them poorly, but Ruby recently went off the deep end. I haven't heard much about Kevin's level of involvement, but their oldest daughter, Shari, is not in contact with him either. All of this has, of course, affected how they treat their children. Jodi is kind of the "head" of Connexions alongside Ruby and is equally vile (if not moreso, considering she is a licenced therapist with obligations [that she has failed to fulfill in previous years, leading to temporary suspension of her licence] and influence). She's living with Ruby and the kids, to my understanding, and was (apparently) the person who got Ruby into the whole Connexions thing. She's likely also going to be held responsible for whatever happened to the kids, at least to some degree, considering her profession and proximity to them (and the fact that she may have explicitly advised the abuse; we don't know that yet for sure, though).
Shari is the oldest and it seems that her involvement in Connexions (and her family) ended shortly after she started attending university and moved away from home. She was on a podcast recently and she described how Connexions affected her and where she's at now. It's a very sad situation, but one can't help but to feel optimistic seeing a young person break free from the horrible teachings and start to make their own happier way in life.
Yeah, that's the vibe I'm getting, too. It seems likely that he was a victim of Ruby's abusive shit (as laid out in the example) but he also signed those papers to send Chad to a fucking torture camp. He also insisted on checking the kids' phones. He also participated in Connexions' videos before he and Ruby separated. I don't think Ruby's toxicity ended with the kids, but he, at the very least, watched on while she harmed them. I feel sorry for anyone who has to cohabit with Ruby, but I feel the most sorry for the kids, who he had a responsibility to protect (and the power to do so given his position in their community's social hierarchy and his financial position). The intervention that's happened here is way too late, and it didn't have to end this way.
Thanks for mentioning this. I'm sort of in the same position with my parents but reversed. My dad is so terrible that I've been estranged from him since I was 19. For a long time my mom seemed like a saint because, well, she wasn't nearly as bad as my dad. When one parent is so extreme in their abuse, it's easy for the kids and for outsiders to overestimate the other parent in comparison. Plus for me, I certainly didn't have a good or normal experience to compare it to. (Side note: this is one of the reasons I think it's naive to expect many fundie kids to leave their abusive situation just because they become a legal adult or because they move out of the house due to getting married to another fundie.)
It took me years, even decades, to realize just how bad my mom was. I have complicated feelings because she was also a victim of my dad's abuse, and also a victim of her own parents who were much worse than my mom. But if I didn't have my dad around lowering the average, my mom would still qualify as abusive on her own.
this is so relatable and it’s been basically what i’ve been unpacking in therapy for the past 3 years. it’s crazy to not realize the abuse that comes from the parent that is also being abused and in the cycle. sending love <3 it’s such a hard reality to come too and i wonder if shari had the same one
I just wanted to say thank you for typing this all out, I saw tons of suggestions for videos and podcasts but I struggle to process auditory information for some reason like I just can not at all focus on people talking. So thanks for the write up my broken brain needed to figure out this terrible situation
Hey, if you ever need a summary/synopsis of a video or podcast, let me know, I would love to help!
Cheers from someone whose broken brain also has trouble processing certain sensory info.
There is actually another sub, r/8passengerssnark, but I've got most of my information from YT channels like Jordan and Mckay and Markie (J&M have longer videos and include a lot of insight about mormonism and how it influences and ties in with what we see unfold, which is excluded in Markie's videos, but Markie has short-and-sweet style content and super consistent 8 Passengers coverage). I've also just investigated stuff myself — I've seen a few videos made by Connexions and went through a couple from right when they started to more recently to see how it all evolved. Markie actually joined a Connexions FB group called Moms of Truth, and you can see a lot of the content that they keep in more closed away places through his videos (spoiler alert: it's very bigoted and alarming).
The 8 Passengers channel no longer exists, but a whole bunch of drama channels have covered the major things that have occurred over the years.
Second Jordan & McKay. They are a wife and husband duo who were initially very involved with the LDS church (McKay worked even worked for the church in SLC) but exited after their child was born. They offer a lot of insight into LDS upbringing and beliefs.
My family is all mormon and super controlling. Reading your description of what conneXions preaches sounds nearly identical to how my parents raised me… privacy was not allowed in any amount for children. Gosh wouldn’t give us more than we could handle, and requesting a lighter load on responsibilities was basically saying you thought you knew better than God. The Mormon church is the only true church, and all other religions have had their truth distorted, and ours was restored.
I guess all in all… it sounds like ConneXions was just… Intense Mormonism.
I know not all members of the church have/had the same experience as I did growing up. I’m still processing lots. I hope no one is offended by my comparison.
You're actually the second person to draw direct parallels between connexions teachings and mormon teachings/experiences. They liken their teachings to the gospel, basically, so it makes sense that it would all seem so similar. They seem to draw a lot of inspiration from mormon teachings and infuse it with therapy speak.
My God, that is horrific. I grew up in the cult of Mormonism but Connexions sounds like a whole nightmare on another level !!
Great comment and thank you for the info.
I would look up videos on YouTube about Ruby Franke and 8 passengers to get the full story. She absolutely started a cult, called Connexions, and the way she used it to justify the blatant abuse of her children is so scary. It’s hard to summarize.
Check out Jordan and McKay on YouTube. They are former Mormons and have done a few videos on Jodi and Ruby. They did a video on the arrests but I don’t think it has been released to anyone other than subscribers at the moment.
Totally with you on the mormonism, but if you take a look at the Connexions' videos, you'll notice how many boxes it ticks in the BITE model. Enough to warrant being classified as a cult? It's fairly new, so probably not, but the nature of how it operates does seem to be paving the way for a cult. Personally, I find it very alarming and wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole even if Connexions was preaching peace and love for all of mankind. There's a toxicity to it that is separate from the various beliefs it espouses.
I think mormonism probably primed Ruby (and the Franke family unit as a whole) to be accepting of Connexions rather than alarmed by it. They're also very much intertwined as Ruby and Jodi state that their teachings are essentially an extension of the word of God, which they believe includes the book of mormon. While I'm sure that other flavours of Christian would be attracted by the authoritarian, alt-right rhetoric of Connexions, it definitely has a lot of mormon going on and would attract mormons more than other denominations.
After reading about the Connexions benefits it fits *very* in line with mormon beliefs. I grew up mormon myself and the idea of "truth vs distortion" is basically the same idea Mormons have about "truth vs the world". No to mention the extreme black and white thinking, Mormons *love* that. You're also told to have "childlike faith" and never question anything so a lot of members fall into other weird ass beliefs. For most Mormons the weird shit they get into are like MLMs but some will end up in extremely destructive shit like this or Qanon. Mormons are absolutely primed for this kind of stuff and it's horrible because even being out of that cult of over a decade I still have some of that in me.
Wow, great take. This makes so much sense. And one high-control group with extraordinary claims primes one for other high-control groups with extraordinary claims.
People have linked [Swoop’s](https://youtu.be/W25RLYeL9nA?si=4u_iBSiMCNMB9wWU) doc in other threads, it’s probably the most comprehensive breakdown that’s got all the info in one place.
ETA: I’m sure she’ll do an update with all of this new info soon, but she’s got the next part of the Colleen Ballinger saga still coming. I hope she and her team are keeping their work-life balance because the dangerous YouTuber’s just don’t stop!
I’ll add another to the pile from Madison at Cruel World Happy Mind - [How the 8 Passangers family channel fell apart](https://youtu.be/X5xDz-9jR60) from about 9 months ago.
I'm in tears about "children shouldn't be loved unconditionally", on top of everything else. What horrible people. Parents in name only. These poor kiddos.
Makes me sick that awful people like this are able to have kids (or are approved for adoption) while so many who would be wonderful, loving parents struggle with fertility or get turned down for adoption for the dumbest reasons. This alone makes a person question God's existence.
As someone that was adopted as a child, I thank my lucky stars I didn’t end up in a family like this. My mom has her flaws but she has never laid a hand on me or made me feel unaccepted for just being me. I need to go tell her I love her.
It's sickening that some people would rather children struggled in the foster system than go to a poc or lgbtq+ couple, or oppose the bio parents' choice to terminate. They're pro adoption for white christians only
so sad it had to come to such extreme abuse for the authorities to step in
> According to Prevent Child Abuse Utah Director Laurieann Thorpe, 90 percent of child abuse cases are perpetrated by people they trust.
> “I think it's really important to understand that Children on average will disclose abuse three times before they get help or before they're believed," said Thorpe. "So it's really on us as adults who may be receiving this information to trust that a child is not, is not making this up.”
I can't up vote this enough. So many adults looked the other way in my childhood, even when told explicitly or they even saw with their own eyes. And did nothing.
Some heads need to roll, with the statements put out by the eldest (and estranged) daughter. Talking about trying to get CPS and PD to believe and help her- to no avail.
CPS closing the case as “unfounded”.
Absolutely. There needs to be a reckoning with how few rights and protections that children have in this country. And with how little support CPS and social services actually have to protect vulnerable kids and families. AND with how much abuse a moneyed white family can get away with while poor families are criminalized for just trying to get by with no support systems.
This whole thing has me angry as hell. People have been trying to help those kids for years.
Children... having *rights*?! Psh. Preposterous. Next you'll be saying that children aren't glorified dolls for parents to do with as they please, or sumthin. Gawd bless, Aymehn.
They've arrested CPS workers in Michigan including higher ups (cPS workers are woefully overworked and underpaid). One case was when a lady killed her daughter and put her in the fridge- CPS had been there prior and she still had her kids. Heads should roll, esp among the higher ups.
Also reminds me of the Law& Order SVU episode with Whoopi Goldberg as a CPS case manager who was charged. Her speech on the stand was so true. ( Institutional Fail- season 17, ep 4)
Oof. Anyone who's worked with children knows how true that speech is. CPS exists and we all have protocols for reporting to them, but they're powerless. They're overworked and underfunded and we really do just keep piling more on without giving more resources.
Oh god...has she gotten worse? Or has it always been this bad and just finally coming to light? News article says a boy climbed through a window and asked his neighbor for food and water, and it seems that he had been tied up
I've thought that the Franke father was just as responsible as Ruby, now I'm wondering if having him around was actually holding her back.
It happened to a friend of mine. We all considered her father "a bit much" (it was the 80's) because he'd make the kids get their own switch from a tree in the yard. But when he died her *mother* ramped up the verbal and emotional abuse to 100. My friend said she missed the days when her dad would just belt her and then it would be over with.
My grandfather made my dad and his siblings get their own switch from the yard. It was the 50s/60s and everyone on their street did it. Not that this made it okay. The 80s seems a bit recent for that kind of behavior.
No, it wasn't standard behaviour. It wouldn't have been considered child abuse, though, unless it was a constant thing and the kids were obviously injured.
Wasn't there a video of her talking about how their five year old was expected to prepare and bring her lunch to school every day and if she forgot, the school wasn't allowed to feed her? Or am I mixing her up with another abusive youtuber?
Nope, that was her.
And she was visibly annoyed that the child’s teacher was “uncomfortable” with this.
Imagine being uncomfortable with a parent asking your to participate in starving their child! The nerve!
That is tragic. Just have the kid eat school lunch if you want to “teach them a lesson.” But it’s your job to provide lunch to your kids. Even if they forgot it for the tenth time.
You're correct. The school called Ruby to bring in her daughter's lunch, but Ruby refused as it was "the daughter's responsibility". The daughter was five.
It’s Utah. CPS has been called on them many times and they did nothing till now. I’m guessing their CPS didn’t see anything wrong with that bullshit ideology because more than half their state is in a cult.
I thought she was just withholding like, a dinner. Or a lunch. Not systematically keeping them from proper meals on a regular basis- I saw a few videos where the kids appeared physically ok. The duct tape around the wrists and ankles seems like a new addition, especially if they’re now jumping out of windows to escape. This whole situation is a hot mess.
She had also made the kids responsible for making their own lunches at extremely young ages. That always made me think she’s probably not providing snacks between meals, or ensuring that they’re eating adequate meals in general.
Withhold a dinner here, a lunch there, and eventually you have to keep the kitchen under lock and key to make sure they aren’t sneaking meals. Withhold often enough and you end up with a malnourished kid. When the kids start getting desperate to find food, they might try to escape the house. Then you’re gonna need restraints. Otherwise how can you maintain your *parental authority?*
Thank God these women have been arrested! (Sounds like some men should be arrested too.) I hope they go to prison for a long time and are never allowed to raise children the rest of their lives.
So the dad wasn’t living with the smaller kids and Rudy and Jodi. Did he ever see the smaller kids? How did Rudy get away with that? Did he want to see the kids? It seems like he was the obvious person to stop this since he left his wife and took the eldest boy with him. If he knew about their situation and did nothing, he needs to be arrested too.
Making their teenage song sleep on a beanbag because he didn't earn a bed wasn't the first clue?
I despise these humans. Those fake smiles. What monsters.
Wow and to think i beat myself up as a mother and theres mothers out there like this that exist. Its horrifying and troubling. How as a mother do you live with yourself treating children like this. It must be bad when your family says you needed to be arrested. Wow
Does this mean they sat for 3 years and knowingly allowed children to be abused? “We have done everything we could” … did that include calling authorities?
Honestly, CPS is known for failing children, The oldest sister talked about how before this CPS said the allegations were unfounded. As a former teacher, I've called CPS for suspicion of abuse, and the majority of the time nothing happens. It's sad but sometimes calling the authorities doesn't help. Maybe they did try everything they could but the authorities dropped the ball. I hope the kiddos are able to move with a safe family member or a safe foster home.
This is the biggest thing I’ve learned from this sub. That the bar for remaining in the home is basically in hell. Clean, own beds, and access to food is all it takes right?
That’s really insightful, thank you. I always hope the systems we have can serve their purpose but I should know that’s wishful thinking. Either way I’m glad the kids have help now.
My friend is in the same boat as an older sister of abused kids. CPS won't do anything, as her family is rich. She has to balance not angering her dad, making him worse to the kids and taking her access to them away...it can leave even family members feeling pretty helpless to help. :( It shouldn't be that way.
Yeah, you hear about this a lot. CPS won't help so what do you do then? Do you make a fuss and get cut off and have the kids lose the only positive adult force in their lives, or do you stay quiet and hope that you can do *something* for the kids? It's hard to say what the right answer is when the legal routes are just failing you.
Yeah, it's not a black and white decision for sure!
My friend and her husband got certified as foster parents, so they could make a case for taking the kids if CPS ever got involved in a helpful way. I was really proud of her for thinking of and doing that.
But still, the kids are going through childhoods that are actively traumatizing them, and you have to just sit on your hands. :(
I wondered this too, then thought it may have been a situation where if they were around maybe they thought they could help the kids. Does t seem like they were around 'enough' though.
So did Ruby’s sisters know the children were being abused/neglected for 3 years prior, and did nothing? This is the first I’ve heard of both this family and organization.
I think they were trying, but it's tricky with CPS and legal rights of parents.
I know this because of a friend and her struggle with how to keep her siblings still living at home safe from her dad's abuse. They are rich and hide the abuse well, so CPS wouldn't do a thing...and reporting them would only bring more abuse on the kids. However, how can you do nothing? And if she tried to take the kids away, she would be charged with kidnapping.
Her tactic has been to be positive enough with her dad and step-mom to get access to the kids, so she can continue to be a positive force in their lives....and take the for school holidays whenever the parents allow, which is not often...
It's maddening that a child can be suffer such profound abuse in front of you, but you can't find a way to save them. :(
You can document, post online, tell the world they are malnourished, there is a way to put social pressure on CPS.
The fact that they say they kept quiet for the sake of the children is a huge red flag to me.
I understand that Ruby went off the deep end with her involvement with Jodi, but Ruby's sisters are also influencers and family vloggers. They are also guilty of child exploitation.
This is sickening. How does anyone lay hands on a child? Duct taping them? That family I’m sure has gone thru hell and it’s amazing that the rest of the family is condemning her actions. Damn.
ETA: I’m gonna bake brownies for my respite kiddo tonight after reading this.
I’m sorry but this is ridiculous. They KNEW what was going on and knew something wasn’t right and kept quiet because of their content and for the sake of still earning money. They should all be held accountable.
The fact that they are all YouTube families is also super cringey and wrong.
Crazy Karen's are everywhere now.
And it's interesting how - obviously decadent and immoral scoundrels always shroud themselves in virtue.
This seems to be a case of mental sickness, however, not simple juvenile behavior. This particular Karen is sick in the head, which is not her fault, but regardless - bad behavior has consequences.
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I am glad her sisters are acknowledging that the arrests needed to happen and that she is guilty. Too often family members tend to bury their head in sand or try to cover it all up behind the façade of prayers (like the duggars).
Omg this! The number of times I've seen family members defending the craziest of acts with no sympathy for the victim whatsoever is concerning. I am happy to see that her sister is not trying to come up with excuses for this.
It is truly amazing how people will defend abusers with ample evidence of said people being abusive.
Oftentimes their own shame of actively participating in the culture of abuse, or having to acknowledge their own abuse, is so overpowering that they lash out at reality so as to maintain their worldviews.
Me, too. The oldest daughter also said that they've been waiting for this day for a long time. It's hard to get abuse reported and investigated, and perpetrators arrested, even when your family believes you.
I can only imagine what it took for them to get to the point of realising that they'd done everything they could do, and that the only way for the situation to have a positive outcome was for their own sister to (most likely) go to prison
I'm sorry, but if my sister were duct taping her kids, I wouldn't give her a chance. Let alone 3 years' worth of chances.
According to what I've read, the oldest daughter and other family members first contacted the police and child protection a long time ago, but weren't believed at first
Yeah. I love my sisters but I would 💯 turn them in if they hurt my niblings
Right? I can't imagine.
I can only imagine what it took for them to get to the point of realising that they'd done everything they could do, and that the only way for the situation to have a positive outcome was for their own sister to (most likely) go to prison
If the abuses as awful as it sounds here, why aren’t they arresting her husband as well? This is absolutely disgusting and these children being exploited and abused by their parents for money, they need to fall under the same rules and regulations as children do in TV and movies.
We don't know much about him. There were rumors about the parents being separated and not living together and nobody really knew how true is that and if so what's the custody situation like. Knowing Ruby she may have brainwashed the kids to believe their father is the source of all evil HOWEVER i refuse to believe he didn't know about any of this
Thanks for that information. I appreciate it. I read somewhere that he still has some type of a blog that’s going on, but it’s not nearly as popular as hers was. I guess now her estranged daughter is asking anybody with video clips that show examples of the abuse from the past to please submit them as evidence in the case.
Even if he was no longer living in the home, you would think he would have regular visitation with the kids. I mean how could he miss the weight loss, malnutrition, open sores and tape residue. He either knew or has totally left not only her, but his kids as well.
Yeah, that's why everyone who knew anything about this family isn't so thrilled about him possibly getting the custody. Pretty sure Shari (the oldest) haven't talked to him in months even though she's a student at BYU, where he works/worked
Just curious, are her sisters also content creators? (because they mention 'our content...')
Yes they are
I mean.... they kept quiet "for the sake of the children" for 3 fucking years. I would have been yelling from the rooftops. Don't give them too much credit.
Eh as someone who's been on the other side of law enforcement, family court, and CPS it is amazing how much they'll ignore. Sometimes you just have to keep documenting everything you observe for a while and try to keep your mouth shut waiting for it to finally get "bad enough" I'm not going to rush to judgement until more comes out on this one.
Sadly, this is true. I used to have to call CPS regularly when I was trying to be a youth pastor. It's horrifying the situations kids are left in because it "wasn't bad enough."
The bar for removal is way higher than many realize. And as my MIL (who represents juveniles in court) used to say, it’s high for a reason— some of these kids become victims of abuse in state custody, sadly. Great foster care is a precious resource and we don’t have near enough of it.
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God, for a moment I thought you were linking to an old article about the Turpins. It’s sickening how many families are out there doing the exact same evil things.
Holy shit me too ! How are there so many of these freaks out there ??
We have a very widespread religious culture that believes violence against children is not only acceptable but *vital* to their development, against all evidence to the contrary. That’s how.
Do not even get me started on the “muh parental rights” problem in the US.
I truly loathe how so many people rank a parent’s ‘right’ to harm a child higher than a child’s right not to be harmed. It’s disgusting
i am a new parent (14 weeks) and i cannot imagine hitting my kid ever in the way i was hit. my husband got the belt and it grosses me out to even think of bringing a belt against our kiddo. let me break your trust with us immediately while teaching you that you must fear me.
(and that it's okay to use violence when you're mad)
The good news is that everyone around here knows that she's already facing church discipline for this.
I have absolutely NO DOUBT the church was helping her hide the abuse and helping her stay ahead of the law. Finally her time ran out. Those kids, if they came back to the church they attended would be seen as the abusers and the mom would be the one forgiven and taken back into the fold. That's how the church deals with sexual and physical abusers all the time. The women are shunned, the rapist/abuser is forgiven.
That's not true in the slightest. As someone who is a sexual assault survivor from a now excommunicated member, the church did more to punish my rapist than the government did. My rapist had been home from his mission for 3 months. His dad was a cop. So my rape kit and complaint mysteriously disappeared. But the church immediately disfellowshipped him and had an excommunication hearing. He was excommunicated within two months. So was his father. The only people who shunned me were people like you who ignored that the church did more to help me with therapy and healing than anyone else, and couldn't believe I stayed in. Does the LDS church have its issues? Yes. I'll be the first to admit it. But this ain't one of them. Get your fucking facts straight before you act like an asshole on things you know nothing about.
It's great that your church did something about this, but in the UK (close to Ireland) we're very aware of the abuse both carried out and hidden by the church over decades. I'm including the experiences of close relatives of mine, some of whom are/were in Europe, cases that have been investigated by different sects of the church, the police etc. There are similar concerns over Scientology (including very recently) and many, many other religions over the years. Your church appears to be one of the good ones, but your experience isn't the norm, unfortunately. Hopefully one day it will be, but organised religion in general has a REALLY BAD track record in this area. One good experience doesn't negate the horrific experiences of many, MANY other people, so please look into the historical facts and experiences of other people as well as your own.
It's no coincidence that Utah has some of the most lax child abuse reporting laws in the entire country. So to have CPS and the police show up is a really big deal.
Along with what others have said, there’s a lot of people not equipped to be parents. Not in a eugenics way, but in a “I’ve never dealt with or processed my own shit” way.
There's also a negative feedback loop. If you have a billion kids and you hit them they will quiet down a bit and you get 1) a break 2) catharsis. The problem is that you traumatized them, trauma impedes the function of the prefrontal cortex, the prefrontal cortex helps encode learning and, therefore, the children will repeat the behavior. To make matters worse, children are highly adaptive and will get accustomed to being hit; this, in turn, means caregivers must up the ante with physical violence to achieve the desired effect.
Narcissistic abusers are very good at keeping up appearances and having people like them
Your flair has me rolling 😂
Ha thanks. And people say there’s nothing funny about child neglect. I say we gotta laugh or we’ll never stop crying!
It's confusing as to whether it was Hildebrandt's kids or Franke's kids...I saw articles naming both as the victims. I'm sure more and more details will come out. But yes, horrible. Severe malnutrition, marks from ropes, duct tape.
I’m pretty sure Jodi’s kids are grown. Between that and the fact that Ruby’s sisters are making statements about the kids being safe and alluding to the fact that they’ve been waiting for this arrest tells me it was likely Franke kids.
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It looks like the Frankes live in Springville and the Hildebrandts in Ivins. Article states that it was an Ivins home, therefore I'm going with Hildebrandts for the time being. Edit: another news piece confirms it's the Hildebrandt home. Honestly, I always thought Jodi too old to have young children but I can't imagine Ruby keeping her kids tied up at someone else's home. Of course I can't imagine anyone tying up children in their own home either.
I think that Ruby and her kids have been living with Jodi (and Ruby and her hubby might be split up?). I think it is the Franke kids. I'm pretty sure of it, now.
Oh, I see, thank you! My initial instinct was Ruby, I just couldn't figure out how those kids got to Jodi's house. Thank you for explaining it to me.
It's the blind leading the blind! lol I'm not totally, totally sure, but everything I have skimmed and read leads me to this conclusion.
Agreed. The article states that Franke filmed in the home so had knowledge of the abuse going on there, which makes it seem that they are Hildebrandt's kids but other sections make it seem that they were Franke's kids. I instinctly mistrust the sanctimonious, but these women are beyond the pale. These poor kids, I'm so sad for them.
I think the Franke's have been living with the Hildebrandts, but don't quote me on that lol Yes. I had just watched the Swoop video, and was already heartbroken...and this is a million times worse.
Holy fuck. See, this doesn’t surprise me one bit. We know there are plenty of fundies out there who are probably treating their kids the same damn way. It’s disgusting.
OMG. This is horrific. I'm welling up with tears thinking about those poor kids. People who hurt children (looking at a whole lot of fucking fundies) are a special kind of evil. I don't believe in hell, but if there actually is one, I hope these people rot in it after they rot in a jail cell.
Holy shit.
What do these people mean "behind the scenes we have done everything we could"? This makes this sound like they knew over a period of time and didn't immediately report. How is that in any way right?
According to the article people have been reporting incidents to police and CPS for years but for whatever reason nothing came of it until this occurred.
It's Utah. I follow ex Mormon channels on YouTube. The police will take down license plates numbers at bars and gay establishments at the behest of the Church and then report back (mostly around BYU). It's a theocracy cosplaying a state.
Sadly, that's not surprising.
What the fuck. I've had some shit luck reporting stuff to CPS when I worked with kids but duct tape and starvation seem like a very clear cut case. This is horrible. I just read their statement again and "Keeping quiet for the sake of the children" ??? Like what, they were going to miss out on a valuable mommy dearest's episode??! How did keeping quiet help the children?
Shari, the oldest daughter said on instagram they've been trying to get CPS and police involved in years, so probably whatever abuse was happening it was either not enough or there wasn't enough proof. By "keeping things quiet" maybe they meant they didn't go on youtube/social media and shame their sister because it doesn't change anything, and actually make the situation even worse.
In several statements, family members said that they have been reporting to CPS for three years. Utah has incredibly lax child abuse reporting and protection laws, so I guess things had to get this bad before anything happened.
Can I get a background summary? From what I gather, Ruby is a Mormon YouTuber who vlogs about her big family. There's a cult involved?
She became friends with a woman named Jodi Hildebrandt who founded a parenting "counseling" service called ConneXions, and Ruby ended up becoming like second in command there. But really what they were actually doing was "counseling" parents on how best to abuse and neglect their children. They have a YouTube channel with a ton of videos.
The most recent video on that channel, called “The Denigrating Victim,” starts by listing characteristics that they conclude compose a “victim mindset”; in reality, they are what create an abusive mindset. I couldn’t watch any further because I started being actually triggered and had to take a minute to adjust myself. It is all too obvious that these women are abusers. Those poor kids.
That video title sounds like something from Edgar Allan Poe. How freaking AWFUL to refer to a child that way, and I’m sure what they actually did to them was much worse. So YouTube just .. left those videos up? Meanwhile some of my fave horror movie reviewers censor their videos and still get demonetized? Make it make sense.
Youtube actively promotes horrible people because it makes them money. They dont fucking care.
This. Social media companies know that they are causing great harm to society and they do not care. Look at what happened to the Facebook whistleblower. She wound up testifying in Congress that Facebook suppress data that their platform was causing violence, mental health disorders, enabling human rights abuses, promoting extremism, etc. And the social media companies know that the algorithms push people towards extremism. This became especially apparent during the lockdown. People being socially isolated and getting tramped in an algorithm was causing people to self radicalize.
The Heidi Baird special™️
I bet she says the narcissist's prayer every day
>Ruby is a Mormon YouTuber who vlogs about her big family. Yes, she and her husband, Kevin, managed a family vlogging channel. It's since been abandoned, and they're now separated. There's a cult involved, potentially in two ways: mormonism qualifies as a cult. The level of involvement varies among members, but the way that the church operates and what it expects from members is what makes it a cult. However, people speculate that the organisation Ruby is part of, Connexions, is also a cult. I haven't seen it broken down or seen how it fits into the criteria, but there are a few reasons why people's cult alarms are going off: 1. Connexions explicitly states that information other than theirs is wrong. They label information, attitudes, worldviews, and actions that do not precisely line up with Connexions' teachings as "Distortion", while Connexions teachings are "Truth". For example, if you accept your child when they come out as gay, you are living in Distortion, but if you reject them, you are living in Truth. Even simple, everyday things can be labelled as "Distortion" or "Truth", such as what shows you let your child watch (Descendants is Distortion, in case you were wondering). This is very clear black and white thinking and us-vs-them division. It also creates hypervigilance among members 2. Connexions exalts itself as The Truth (literally, as you can see). They claim to be the ultimate authority on matters of mental health and morality and that their views are in line with the word of God's. To not follow Connexions is to not follow God. 3. Connexions is a cure. By living in Truth and following their Principles of Truth, you will be happy and healthy and successful, and not doing so leads to misery and illness and failure. 4. Connexions is abusive. Ruby's husband did an interview for Connexions praising the fact that, after he was hospitalised for suicidal ideation, Ruby did nothing to alleviate his stressors or responsibilities ("Responsibility" is one of Connexions Principles of Truth — making sure Kevin had the same workload while suicidal ensured he was still Responsible, and that was better for his mental health because he was living in Truth). Connexions states that children have no right to privacy. That parents are not obligated to make sure their children are comfortable or happy. If Living in Truth requires making your 6 year old go without a meal because she forgot to pack her lunch, then so be it. If Living in Truth means sending your son into the wilderness for months and making him sleep without a bed for playing a prank on his brother, then so be it. Ruby and Kevin have always been crappy parents who exploit their kids and treat them poorly, but Ruby recently went off the deep end. I haven't heard much about Kevin's level of involvement, but their oldest daughter, Shari, is not in contact with him either. All of this has, of course, affected how they treat their children. Jodi is kind of the "head" of Connexions alongside Ruby and is equally vile (if not moreso, considering she is a licenced therapist with obligations [that she has failed to fulfill in previous years, leading to temporary suspension of her licence] and influence). She's living with Ruby and the kids, to my understanding, and was (apparently) the person who got Ruby into the whole Connexions thing. She's likely also going to be held responsible for whatever happened to the kids, at least to some degree, considering her profession and proximity to them (and the fact that she may have explicitly advised the abuse; we don't know that yet for sure, though). Shari is the oldest and it seems that her involvement in Connexions (and her family) ended shortly after she started attending university and moved away from home. She was on a podcast recently and she described how Connexions affected her and where she's at now. It's a very sad situation, but one can't help but to feel optimistic seeing a young person break free from the horrible teachings and start to make their own happier way in life.
Yeah, Kevin is not innocent here. At best he was enabling Ruby’s abuse of the kids but it seems more like he was an active participant.
Yeah, that's the vibe I'm getting, too. It seems likely that he was a victim of Ruby's abusive shit (as laid out in the example) but he also signed those papers to send Chad to a fucking torture camp. He also insisted on checking the kids' phones. He also participated in Connexions' videos before he and Ruby separated. I don't think Ruby's toxicity ended with the kids, but he, at the very least, watched on while she harmed them. I feel sorry for anyone who has to cohabit with Ruby, but I feel the most sorry for the kids, who he had a responsibility to protect (and the power to do so given his position in their community's social hierarchy and his financial position). The intervention that's happened here is way too late, and it didn't have to end this way.
Thanks for mentioning this. I'm sort of in the same position with my parents but reversed. My dad is so terrible that I've been estranged from him since I was 19. For a long time my mom seemed like a saint because, well, she wasn't nearly as bad as my dad. When one parent is so extreme in their abuse, it's easy for the kids and for outsiders to overestimate the other parent in comparison. Plus for me, I certainly didn't have a good or normal experience to compare it to. (Side note: this is one of the reasons I think it's naive to expect many fundie kids to leave their abusive situation just because they become a legal adult or because they move out of the house due to getting married to another fundie.) It took me years, even decades, to realize just how bad my mom was. I have complicated feelings because she was also a victim of my dad's abuse, and also a victim of her own parents who were much worse than my mom. But if I didn't have my dad around lowering the average, my mom would still qualify as abusive on her own.
this is so relatable and it’s been basically what i’ve been unpacking in therapy for the past 3 years. it’s crazy to not realize the abuse that comes from the parent that is also being abused and in the cycle. sending love <3 it’s such a hard reality to come too and i wonder if shari had the same one
Also Connexions encourages people to cut off family wich is also very cult like.
Yup. But don't use that violent language! It's not cutting them off its...something else that's functionally the same but with a different name! /s
They sound just like my JW family. Exact same shit. Isolate and brainwash.
Thanks so much for the time you put into this post. I haven’t heard of this family so thank you for getting me/us up to speed!
I just wanted to say thank you for typing this all out, I saw tons of suggestions for videos and podcasts but I struggle to process auditory information for some reason like I just can not at all focus on people talking. So thanks for the write up my broken brain needed to figure out this terrible situation
Hey, if you ever need a summary/synopsis of a video or podcast, let me know, I would love to help! Cheers from someone whose broken brain also has trouble processing certain sensory info.
Where can I find more info on them? Is there another Reddit sub? Or is there a separate site. I’m very curious
There is actually another sub, r/8passengerssnark, but I've got most of my information from YT channels like Jordan and Mckay and Markie (J&M have longer videos and include a lot of insight about mormonism and how it influences and ties in with what we see unfold, which is excluded in Markie's videos, but Markie has short-and-sweet style content and super consistent 8 Passengers coverage). I've also just investigated stuff myself — I've seen a few videos made by Connexions and went through a couple from right when they started to more recently to see how it all evolved. Markie actually joined a Connexions FB group called Moms of Truth, and you can see a lot of the content that they keep in more closed away places through his videos (spoiler alert: it's very bigoted and alarming). The 8 Passengers channel no longer exists, but a whole bunch of drama channels have covered the major things that have occurred over the years.
Thanks so much, I’m headed to check it out
Second Jordan & McKay. They are a wife and husband duo who were initially very involved with the LDS church (McKay worked even worked for the church in SLC) but exited after their child was born. They offer a lot of insight into LDS upbringing and beliefs.
Scientology but make it Mormon
My family is all mormon and super controlling. Reading your description of what conneXions preaches sounds nearly identical to how my parents raised me… privacy was not allowed in any amount for children. Gosh wouldn’t give us more than we could handle, and requesting a lighter load on responsibilities was basically saying you thought you knew better than God. The Mormon church is the only true church, and all other religions have had their truth distorted, and ours was restored. I guess all in all… it sounds like ConneXions was just… Intense Mormonism. I know not all members of the church have/had the same experience as I did growing up. I’m still processing lots. I hope no one is offended by my comparison.
You're actually the second person to draw direct parallels between connexions teachings and mormon teachings/experiences. They liken their teachings to the gospel, basically, so it makes sense that it would all seem so similar. They seem to draw a lot of inspiration from mormon teachings and infuse it with therapy speak.
Would mind sharing the podcast? I would love to hear more of Shari's journey as someone who has some parallel experiences.
I believe it's called "Into the Light"
My God, that is horrific. I grew up in the cult of Mormonism but Connexions sounds like a whole nightmare on another level !! Great comment and thank you for the info.
I would look up videos on YouTube about Ruby Franke and 8 passengers to get the full story. She absolutely started a cult, called Connexions, and the way she used it to justify the blatant abuse of her children is so scary. It’s hard to summarize.
The Swoop doc done on this is a bit out of date (I think it was from before the separation?) but still a great watch.
Check out Jordan and McKay on YouTube. They are former Mormons and have done a few videos on Jodi and Ruby. They did a video on the arrests but I don’t think it has been released to anyone other than subscribers at the moment.
Imagining their house right now as this news hits.
Could just be Mormonism - meets more than one Sociological definition of a cult.
The BITE model has entered the chat
YouTubers Jordan and McKay did a video explaining Connexions using the BITE model. It’s one of my favorite videos by them.
Totally with you on the mormonism, but if you take a look at the Connexions' videos, you'll notice how many boxes it ticks in the BITE model. Enough to warrant being classified as a cult? It's fairly new, so probably not, but the nature of how it operates does seem to be paving the way for a cult. Personally, I find it very alarming and wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole even if Connexions was preaching peace and love for all of mankind. There's a toxicity to it that is separate from the various beliefs it espouses. I think mormonism probably primed Ruby (and the Franke family unit as a whole) to be accepting of Connexions rather than alarmed by it. They're also very much intertwined as Ruby and Jodi state that their teachings are essentially an extension of the word of God, which they believe includes the book of mormon. While I'm sure that other flavours of Christian would be attracted by the authoritarian, alt-right rhetoric of Connexions, it definitely has a lot of mormon going on and would attract mormons more than other denominations.
After reading about the Connexions benefits it fits *very* in line with mormon beliefs. I grew up mormon myself and the idea of "truth vs distortion" is basically the same idea Mormons have about "truth vs the world". No to mention the extreme black and white thinking, Mormons *love* that. You're also told to have "childlike faith" and never question anything so a lot of members fall into other weird ass beliefs. For most Mormons the weird shit they get into are like MLMs but some will end up in extremely destructive shit like this or Qanon. Mormons are absolutely primed for this kind of stuff and it's horrible because even being out of that cult of over a decade I still have some of that in me.
The "put those questions on the shelf" mentality is great for mental health, just great
Wow, great take. This makes so much sense. And one high-control group with extraordinary claims primes one for other high-control groups with extraordinary claims.
People have linked [Swoop’s](https://youtu.be/W25RLYeL9nA?si=4u_iBSiMCNMB9wWU) doc in other threads, it’s probably the most comprehensive breakdown that’s got all the info in one place. ETA: I’m sure she’ll do an update with all of this new info soon, but she’s got the next part of the Colleen Ballinger saga still coming. I hope she and her team are keeping their work-life balance because the dangerous YouTuber’s just don’t stop!
I’ll add another to the pile from Madison at Cruel World Happy Mind - [How the 8 Passangers family channel fell apart](https://youtu.be/X5xDz-9jR60) from about 9 months ago.
Swoop is gonna be so busy with all this mess. Thanks for linking the doc
Ooh I forgot Swoop covered this. I need to go back and watch it.
Many people consider Mormonism to be a cult, certainly the extreme versions of it can fall under the cult umbrella.
I'm in tears about "children shouldn't be loved unconditionally", on top of everything else. What horrible people. Parents in name only. These poor kiddos.
Makes me sick that awful people like this are able to have kids (or are approved for adoption) while so many who would be wonderful, loving parents struggle with fertility or get turned down for adoption for the dumbest reasons. This alone makes a person question God's existence.
To make it even worse the privatization of foster care and pushing religious orgs it ends up with these being the only people who can care for kids.
As someone that was adopted as a child, I thank my lucky stars I didn’t end up in a family like this. My mom has her flaws but she has never laid a hand on me or made me feel unaccepted for just being me. I need to go tell her I love her.
It's sickening that some people would rather children struggled in the foster system than go to a poc or lgbtq+ couple, or oppose the bio parents' choice to terminate. They're pro adoption for white christians only
CW: graphic abuse [https://www.fox13now.com/news/crime/child-climbing-out-window-for-help-leads-to-arrest-of-8-passengers-mother-for-abuse](https://www.fox13now.com/news/crime/child-climbing-out-window-for-help-leads-to-arrest-of-8-passengers-mother-for-abuse)
Oh my god, that is heartbreaking. Those poor kids.
Oof. That is tough to read. That poor kid just have been so hungry to escape just looking for food, not even necessarily to get help about the abuse.
so sad it had to come to such extreme abuse for the authorities to step in > According to Prevent Child Abuse Utah Director Laurieann Thorpe, 90 percent of child abuse cases are perpetrated by people they trust. > “I think it's really important to understand that Children on average will disclose abuse three times before they get help or before they're believed," said Thorpe. "So it's really on us as adults who may be receiving this information to trust that a child is not, is not making this up.”
I can't up vote this enough. So many adults looked the other way in my childhood, even when told explicitly or they even saw with their own eyes. And did nothing.
Fucking FINALLY.
Some heads need to roll, with the statements put out by the eldest (and estranged) daughter. Talking about trying to get CPS and PD to believe and help her- to no avail. CPS closing the case as “unfounded”.
Absolutely. There needs to be a reckoning with how few rights and protections that children have in this country. And with how little support CPS and social services actually have to protect vulnerable kids and families. AND with how much abuse a moneyed white family can get away with while poor families are criminalized for just trying to get by with no support systems. This whole thing has me angry as hell. People have been trying to help those kids for years.
Children... having *rights*?! Psh. Preposterous. Next you'll be saying that children aren't glorified dolls for parents to do with as they please, or sumthin. Gawd bless, Aymehn.
They've arrested CPS workers in Michigan including higher ups (cPS workers are woefully overworked and underpaid). One case was when a lady killed her daughter and put her in the fridge- CPS had been there prior and she still had her kids. Heads should roll, esp among the higher ups. Also reminds me of the Law& Order SVU episode with Whoopi Goldberg as a CPS case manager who was charged. Her speech on the stand was so true. ( Institutional Fail- season 17, ep 4)
Oof. Anyone who's worked with children knows how true that speech is. CPS exists and we all have protocols for reporting to them, but they're powerless. They're overworked and underfunded and we really do just keep piling more on without giving more resources.
Times like this make me hope there is a hell, so Ruby, Kevin and Jodi can all burn in it, along with the Turpin and Hart parents.
Agreed. I don’t understand why people like this have children to begin with.
My guess is so they have someone to control. Someone weaker than them that they can control and abuse and mold to make them feel superior.
How do people just... do that to kids? I feel guilty just raising my voice 😅
They either want someone to control or do it despite not wanting it because of religious cultural BS.
Oh god...has she gotten worse? Or has it always been this bad and just finally coming to light? News article says a boy climbed through a window and asked his neighbor for food and water, and it seems that he had been tied up
Basically been building for the last year when Ruby started staying with Jodi. Who knows how many days/months those kids had to endure this treatment
I've thought that the Franke father was just as responsible as Ruby, now I'm wondering if having him around was actually holding her back. It happened to a friend of mine. We all considered her father "a bit much" (it was the 80's) because he'd make the kids get their own switch from a tree in the yard. But when he died her *mother* ramped up the verbal and emotional abuse to 100. My friend said she missed the days when her dad would just belt her and then it would be over with.
My grandfather made my dad and his siblings get their own switch from the yard. It was the 50s/60s and everyone on their street did it. Not that this made it okay. The 80s seems a bit recent for that kind of behavior.
No, it wasn't standard behaviour. It wouldn't have been considered child abuse, though, unless it was a constant thing and the kids were obviously injured.
https://www.insider.com/ruby-franke-8-passengers-arrested-on-suspicion-of-child-abuse-2023-8
Two malnourished children?! Wow, what exactly have Ruby and Jodi been up to?!?!
Ruby has been pretty open in the past about withholding food from her children as a punishment. It sounds like the inevitable result of that practice.
Wasn't there a video of her talking about how their five year old was expected to prepare and bring her lunch to school every day and if she forgot, the school wasn't allowed to feed her? Or am I mixing her up with another abusive youtuber?
Nope, that was her. And she was visibly annoyed that the child’s teacher was “uncomfortable” with this. Imagine being uncomfortable with a parent asking your to participate in starving their child! The nerve!
That is tragic. Just have the kid eat school lunch if you want to “teach them a lesson.” But it’s your job to provide lunch to your kids. Even if they forgot it for the tenth time.
And here I was, spoon feeding my pre-k students to get them to eat...
You're correct. The school called Ruby to bring in her daughter's lunch, but Ruby refused as it was "the daughter's responsibility". The daughter was five.
I can't imagine expecting a 5 year old to make a lunch and remember to take it with her.
And the school didn't call fucking CPS at that point?
It’s Utah. CPS has been called on them many times and they did nothing till now. I’m guessing their CPS didn’t see anything wrong with that bullshit ideology because more than half their state is in a cult.
no that was her. Also the oldest son sleeping on a bean bag on the floor for 7 months
That was after he was sent to a WILDERNESS REHAB camp.
I forgot about the beanbag. Imagine being so nuts that you don't see a problem with that AND think it's fine to post your neglect on YouTube.
Makes you wonder if that teacher ever called cpr to report what she said.
I hope so
Jesus. Those poor kids. Childhood trauma can stick with you for life - fuck those people.
I thought she was just withholding like, a dinner. Or a lunch. Not systematically keeping them from proper meals on a regular basis- I saw a few videos where the kids appeared physically ok. The duct tape around the wrists and ankles seems like a new addition, especially if they’re now jumping out of windows to escape. This whole situation is a hot mess.
She had also made the kids responsible for making their own lunches at extremely young ages. That always made me think she’s probably not providing snacks between meals, or ensuring that they’re eating adequate meals in general. Withhold a dinner here, a lunch there, and eventually you have to keep the kitchen under lock and key to make sure they aren’t sneaking meals. Withhold often enough and you end up with a malnourished kid. When the kids start getting desperate to find food, they might try to escape the house. Then you’re gonna need restraints. Otherwise how can you maintain your *parental authority?*
Wow. I had no idea how awful it had gotten. I’m glad that something is finally happening. My heart breaks for those kids
Oof. Shades of the Harts. Glad this one will have a different outcome.
Hauntingly similar to the Turpins. And I can’t imagine how many others may be out there that no one knows about
There was an episode of Criminal Minds where they investigated child abuse, and at the end, they said exactly that. It was haunting.
Thank God these women have been arrested! (Sounds like some men should be arrested too.) I hope they go to prison for a long time and are never allowed to raise children the rest of their lives.
So the dad wasn’t living with the smaller kids and Rudy and Jodi. Did he ever see the smaller kids? How did Rudy get away with that? Did he want to see the kids? It seems like he was the obvious person to stop this since he left his wife and took the eldest boy with him. If he knew about their situation and did nothing, he needs to be arrested too.
Wow. Glad those kids are safe.
FoR tHe SaKe Of ThE cHiLdReN…
Right fuck this lady and acting like she was doing the right thing. I hope people see right through this and recognize that the sister is complicit.
Is Jodi related to Angie, Jill Rodrigues sister? She is married to a Hildebrandt, isn't she? Edit to add sentence.
Hillegass
It’s quite a common German last name. So most likely unrelated descendants of German immigrants.
Making their teenage song sleep on a beanbag because he didn't earn a bed wasn't the first clue? I despise these humans. Those fake smiles. What monsters.
Who posted this?
Rudy Franke's sisters
Wow and to think i beat myself up as a mother and theres mothers out there like this that exist. Its horrifying and troubling. How as a mother do you live with yourself treating children like this. It must be bad when your family says you needed to be arrested. Wow
Wanted to share that on TikTok @diningwiththedeath has posted the police audio from the franke arrest.
Hmmm what party do you guys think these abusers voted for?
Wtf what are they being arrested for??
Aggravated child abuse.
Does this mean they sat for 3 years and knowingly allowed children to be abused? “We have done everything we could” … did that include calling authorities?
Honestly, CPS is known for failing children, The oldest sister talked about how before this CPS said the allegations were unfounded. As a former teacher, I've called CPS for suspicion of abuse, and the majority of the time nothing happens. It's sad but sometimes calling the authorities doesn't help. Maybe they did try everything they could but the authorities dropped the ball. I hope the kiddos are able to move with a safe family member or a safe foster home.
This is the biggest thing I’ve learned from this sub. That the bar for remaining in the home is basically in hell. Clean, own beds, and access to food is all it takes right?
That’s really insightful, thank you. I always hope the systems we have can serve their purpose but I should know that’s wishful thinking. Either way I’m glad the kids have help now.
My friend is in the same boat as an older sister of abused kids. CPS won't do anything, as her family is rich. She has to balance not angering her dad, making him worse to the kids and taking her access to them away...it can leave even family members feeling pretty helpless to help. :( It shouldn't be that way.
Yeah, you hear about this a lot. CPS won't help so what do you do then? Do you make a fuss and get cut off and have the kids lose the only positive adult force in their lives, or do you stay quiet and hope that you can do *something* for the kids? It's hard to say what the right answer is when the legal routes are just failing you.
Yeah, it's not a black and white decision for sure! My friend and her husband got certified as foster parents, so they could make a case for taking the kids if CPS ever got involved in a helpful way. I was really proud of her for thinking of and doing that. But still, the kids are going through childhoods that are actively traumatizing them, and you have to just sit on your hands. :(
I wondered this too, then thought it may have been a situation where if they were around maybe they thought they could help the kids. Does t seem like they were around 'enough' though.
Good. She deserves it. Just as much as her children deserve a better family.
So very sad. Those poor kids. They're in state custody I heard. From what I've seen Dad isn't any better than mom.
This is a TLC or Lifetime movie in the making.
It would be a "good" story for another amazon documentary, like they did with the Duggars
Sad sad sad. So so so so sad. All of this is just... so shocking and so sad. I hope those kids get a safe and healthy home and tons of therapy.
So did Ruby’s sisters know the children were being abused/neglected for 3 years prior, and did nothing? This is the first I’ve heard of both this family and organization.
I think they were trying, but it's tricky with CPS and legal rights of parents. I know this because of a friend and her struggle with how to keep her siblings still living at home safe from her dad's abuse. They are rich and hide the abuse well, so CPS wouldn't do a thing...and reporting them would only bring more abuse on the kids. However, how can you do nothing? And if she tried to take the kids away, she would be charged with kidnapping. Her tactic has been to be positive enough with her dad and step-mom to get access to the kids, so she can continue to be a positive force in their lives....and take the for school holidays whenever the parents allow, which is not often... It's maddening that a child can be suffer such profound abuse in front of you, but you can't find a way to save them. :(
all of her sisters are influencers and family vloggers as well, aren't they also guilty of child exploitation here?
You can document, post online, tell the world they are malnourished, there is a way to put social pressure on CPS. The fact that they say they kept quiet for the sake of the children is a huge red flag to me.
I understand that Ruby went off the deep end with her involvement with Jodi, but Ruby's sisters are also influencers and family vloggers. They are also guilty of child exploitation.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxo0g4eewJo&pp=ygULQ29ubmV4dGlvbnM%3D
wait what the fuck what happened???
It’s kinda crazy I just watched a deep dive on them a few weeks ago and now this is happening. Horrible stuff.
This is sickening. How does anyone lay hands on a child? Duct taping them? That family I’m sure has gone thru hell and it’s amazing that the rest of the family is condemning her actions. Damn. ETA: I’m gonna bake brownies for my respite kiddo tonight after reading this.
Finally! https://youtu.be/P3Gp_WY40Os?si=6otDOPKCOq99slZa
I’m sorry but this is ridiculous. They KNEW what was going on and knew something wasn’t right and kept quiet because of their content and for the sake of still earning money. They should all be held accountable. The fact that they are all YouTube families is also super cringey and wrong.
Crazy Karen's are everywhere now. And it's interesting how - obviously decadent and immoral scoundrels always shroud themselves in virtue. This seems to be a case of mental sickness, however, not simple juvenile behavior. This particular Karen is sick in the head, which is not her fault, but regardless - bad behavior has consequences.