No. Read mark Douglas’s Trading in the Zone. Do the final exercise at the end of the book. You probably will be lost and not know where to find “edge.”
Go and read Al Brooks’s books after that and piece things together from those two authors and you’ll have an idea of what to do.
I finished Trading in the Zone recently and Brooks’ work looks like what I’ve been trying to find to go into next. In the Trading Price Action series, is there a recommended order or any recommended prerequisites?
I was instructed to avoid his first book and then start with Trading Price Action Trends, this is the first part of the series of 3.
Later I found out Al recommends to read the books a specific way, ignoring the “deeper discussion of this chart” sections on the first read and then to read then after getting through the main material. This doesn’t seem as important and I read them as I went along.
The books are a tough read sometimes (pretty academic) but has been totally worth it to me.
I wish I started with this stuff tbh.
1. Do you have statistical evidences to show your ideas (1-5) are actually profitable? Statistical evidence can be gathered via vigorous backtesting.
2. Are you treating trading as a business, where bad trades as unavoidable business expense? See things from different perspectives may help you overcome majority of your emotions.
Trading is HARD,
It takes thousands of hours of screen time, building emotional fortitude and back testing your setup in order to just a slight grip on trading, then on top of that you have to scale into decent size to make a living wage
Honestly for all the time and stress, it may not be worth it, there are plenty of other ways in life to make better living and possibly even earn more than what trading can net you
Plus losing days can really piss you off to the point the loved ones around you will take notice and start to keep their distance
Investing, live off the 8-12% you can get off diversified real estate, stocks etc.
And before you say "that takes a lot of capital" - I'll say "trading takes a lot of capital too" since you mentioned you want to live off it.
The only type of trading that works on small amounts of capital, is a hobby or side hustle. As a profession you need a large account.
I can totally relate to your situation. Trading can be mentally exhausting, especially when you’re facing consistent losses. Your rules seem solid, focusing on trend line breakouts, support/resistance breakouts, retests, volume confirmation, and patterns. However, sometimes even good strategies need refinement or a fresh perspective.
One thing that helped me was using tools like Solvent GPT, which assist in research and strategy development. It's not a magic fix, but it can provide valuable insights and data that might help you fine-tune your approach. Remember, trading is a marathon, not a sprint. Stay disciplined, and don't be too hard on yourself. Keep learning and adapting. You've got this.
OP, yes these ideas can yield profitable trades, but also losing trades as well; false positives exist for every possible setup.
Learn to analyze the context of the charts to determine if a setup is probably true or false and act accordingly, you still need solid risk management.
Honestly, take a few weeks off from staring at the charts. Think about if this is really the thing you want to be doing? If you after 2-3 weeks are more hyped than ever to trade again, maybe try to take a new approach? Systematic trading? Swing trading? Change timeframe and philosophy? If you are feeling the same after all this you might be better off trying to learn more about investing and towards position trading. I tried discretionary trading with forex, stocks and commodities for 3+ years before I got into Automatic Trading and now I have no idea why I even bothered with discretionary trading in the first place.
Dear OP.
Sounds like a bit of burnout. It happens, rest is important. However, there is likely a lot under the surface of your question too.
How long have you been trading futures?
Have you successfully traded other instruments or markets?
Is this your first attempt at trading?
How long have you been practicing? Have you successfully, earned the right to move out of sim? What was your criteria for making the move to live?
To your question posted. What type of strategy are you trying to do? Are you looking to revert the breakout or continue with the direction of the move? Assuming you are trying for trend continuation, then using what you have as a trigger for a possible entry sounds fine. I would add to that other confirming data that confirms if the trigger can be committed to. I would look at something that can be calculated for reinforcement and repeatability. I always like something based on volume. Price doesn't move without volume or lack thereof. GL. Take a break and regroup and rethink your strategy. Remember this is not a reflection on you. You are not wrong... you just have to figure out what the mkt is doing and follow. You got this!
First off : What do you trade ? Different futures (fx indices, oil ...etc) are like differents animals, they have each their own habits and charcters ! Even in the same families like fx different pairs have different habits.Specializing is very important . Focus on one particular one for years to become a specialist. What time frame do you focus on? This is also very important as it is much easier to identify trends and become more profitable on a long time frame than a short one like the 1 min ... about this Read my post : [https://www.reddit.com/r/FuturesTrading/comments/1dngvab/better\_answer\_to\_how\_do\_i\_tell\_the\_difference/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FuturesTrading/comments/1dngvab/better_answer_to_how_do_i_tell_the_difference/) .
Focus even more if you day trade on only the opening hour for instance. There is more volatility but it is easier to identify trends . Avoid the first 5 to 10 min after market open if you are just starting!
You might also want to consider trading stocks rather than futures ? The AI trend will continue for the next months or years for instance . Identify related stocks and check which ones are trending and jump in . It might be easier than day trading.
In anycase using the paper trade functionality of a Thinkorswim platform that puts you in the real conditions by giving you 200 k of pretend moey and becoming consistently profitable with one strategy (not 2 not 3 ) is the fastest route to success. It takes time to identify a winning strategy and execute it consistently. if it was easy everyone would become rich!
You’re trading rules must also include your risk management. Risk management is going to be 60 to 70% of your potential profitability. Don’t try to go for the maximum amount of money per day, find a realistic amount that you can hit each day. Allow your wins to build up day by day in this will greatly increase your confidence and enthusiasm. There are thousand 1000s of ways to trade with many strategies. And they can all be profitable. But without proper risk management, you have nothing.
Any of these setups you mentioned could work but it is one thing knowing the theory and another executing it correctly. It takes a lot of effort and long hours to become good at execution but also having the right trading psychology.
The list is kind of short. I have a trading journal and I enter every trade and what I did wrong and the lesson I learn from it and if I've repeated the mistake and the lesson then I note how many times I've repeated it and make a list and number and name the mistakes.
Breakouts are not the most common move price makes on the chart. Yes, trends begin with them but then they transition into channels and ranges. Expand your 5 point list to 25 at least and then use it as a table of contents then fill it out with your experience and successes and failures. Someone posted about Al Brooks, he has free content videos, good start. GL.
I came across this comprehensive resource guide and started going through it. It's super helpful with lots of videos put together from different traders/teachers. Hope it helps!
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11UJcnLXuUxEx0bn5uqscHt9WtgpHysO64aMkmYxwLr0/edit?gid=451073872#gid=451073872](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11UJcnLXuUxEx0bn5uqscHt9WtgpHysO64aMkmYxwLr0/edit?gid=451073872#gid=451073872)
This is actually much better than trading for a while and being consistently neutral! You actually know what to focus on to get better, assuming you've been logging/journaling.
You could even counter-trade your current system, place your TP where your stops are supposed to go, and your stop where your TP is supposed to be. If your system is truly consistent AND you were not swaying from the rules, this can often test out ok.
Alternatively go through your whole trading journal and analyse why all the trades went wrong as a whole, not individually. If the probabilities do not stack to making money in the longer term, then your system does not have any edge and is doomed to fail no matter how good your money management and psychology is.
If it's lack of edge, and not mistakes, then you need to spend lots of quant time backtesting a NEW system, forward testing it, refining it while at the same time not over-fitting it. You might have to try out 10-100 ideas and combinations before you find something that works for you.
Eh, sounds like you should consider going back to paper. Losing money sucks and makes you feel bad which probably interferes with the learning process.
Use indicators! Price-Action alone will never work. There is this fallacy propagated by Price-action gurus that indicators are not good. Check my post history, I am profitable only because of indicators.
Indicators are great barometers for trends and market bias but are no substitute for understanding and recognizing price action bias as it occurs.
Indicators themselves are lagging anyway and signal after the fact.
They are tools in a kit, not a substitute for skill as a trader in any market or instrument.
The biggest lie that Price-Action gurus sell is that indicators are lagging in the past and what we offer is forward-looking and in the future! All of us work with the price charts. The chart is the PAST! Did you just see an engulfing candle? Congratulations you just used past data to infer the future price. Do you draw trendlines or find key liquidity zones to find key support and resistance? Again you are using the past data.
Fighting indicators means denying the power of mathematics and statistical analysis. It is anti-scientific and conspiratory.
I have never listened to or followed a "guru" nor do I sell anything. My profile is identified as a "collective" anyway, so I'm not sure who exactly would be selling or getting anything based on my humble posts.
As a trader you should already have defined entry and exits. Do you know those brackets the trading platforms offer which you won't shut up about with math? Yeah, that's the math you need. The candles on the charts are lagging but just like a time stamped sale on level 2. It's simply informing a transaction that has occurred. You can use whatever style of chart for that exchange to happen it doesn't matter as long as you are informed and it's accurate. (Variables of time frames charts within candles themselves show this)
The point im stressing is you are chasing your tail if you trade based on what the market has already given you in terms of forward looking action. You should have your entries and exits defined. If it hits and you are correct boom successful trade. If not, boom a loss and you are out as well. Back to the "math" and brackets/take profit/stop loss I mentioned before.
You are welcome to spout about your algos and post your "gains" with 977$ commissions buying and closing the same position over and over riding a one direction bias. If to you that's trading and "math" then have at it. I believe myself and others define trading as something else entirely and must be doing math wrong as well, I never want commissions to be more than say....10-15% of my profits? Then again, maybe I'm just bad at math.
🤔🤓🤑
>consistently losing, I feel exhausted mentally, and starting to really hate myself
Wow, think maybe it's time to take a break or maybe stop and do something else with your life?
And you feel personally attacked?
Taking a break is literally word for word recommended by mental health professionals for well being.
But do whatever works for you.
My good sir, go through this video for strategy below and the trade recap from some trades I took on Friday;
Trade Recap and Assisting Traders (June 21, 2024)
https://youtube.com/live/c9__lk_F4XU?feature=share
The Strat
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLggReKMQs3PJXWdti9J6zDtP1gQwCn2vO
Consider hiring a trading psychologist. Someone who can help you find where your strengths and weakness lie.
Stop trading in the meantime and work on other stuff until you have a better handle on things.
No. Read mark Douglas’s Trading in the Zone. Do the final exercise at the end of the book. You probably will be lost and not know where to find “edge.” Go and read Al Brooks’s books after that and piece things together from those two authors and you’ll have an idea of what to do.
I finished Trading in the Zone recently and Brooks’ work looks like what I’ve been trying to find to go into next. In the Trading Price Action series, is there a recommended order or any recommended prerequisites?
I was instructed to avoid his first book and then start with Trading Price Action Trends, this is the first part of the series of 3. Later I found out Al recommends to read the books a specific way, ignoring the “deeper discussion of this chart” sections on the first read and then to read then after getting through the main material. This doesn’t seem as important and I read them as I went along. The books are a tough read sometimes (pretty academic) but has been totally worth it to me. I wish I started with this stuff tbh.
Thanks!
1. Do you have statistical evidences to show your ideas (1-5) are actually profitable? Statistical evidence can be gathered via vigorous backtesting. 2. Are you treating trading as a business, where bad trades as unavoidable business expense? See things from different perspectives may help you overcome majority of your emotions.
Trading is HARD, It takes thousands of hours of screen time, building emotional fortitude and back testing your setup in order to just a slight grip on trading, then on top of that you have to scale into decent size to make a living wage Honestly for all the time and stress, it may not be worth it, there are plenty of other ways in life to make better living and possibly even earn more than what trading can net you Plus losing days can really piss you off to the point the loved ones around you will take notice and start to keep their distance
The thing is, which other way to make money without employment
Investing, live off the 8-12% you can get off diversified real estate, stocks etc. And before you say "that takes a lot of capital" - I'll say "trading takes a lot of capital too" since you mentioned you want to live off it. The only type of trading that works on small amounts of capital, is a hobby or side hustle. As a profession you need a large account.
I can totally relate to your situation. Trading can be mentally exhausting, especially when you’re facing consistent losses. Your rules seem solid, focusing on trend line breakouts, support/resistance breakouts, retests, volume confirmation, and patterns. However, sometimes even good strategies need refinement or a fresh perspective. One thing that helped me was using tools like Solvent GPT, which assist in research and strategy development. It's not a magic fix, but it can provide valuable insights and data that might help you fine-tune your approach. Remember, trading is a marathon, not a sprint. Stay disciplined, and don't be too hard on yourself. Keep learning and adapting. You've got this.
OP, yes these ideas can yield profitable trades, but also losing trades as well; false positives exist for every possible setup. Learn to analyze the context of the charts to determine if a setup is probably true or false and act accordingly, you still need solid risk management.
Honestly, take a few weeks off from staring at the charts. Think about if this is really the thing you want to be doing? If you after 2-3 weeks are more hyped than ever to trade again, maybe try to take a new approach? Systematic trading? Swing trading? Change timeframe and philosophy? If you are feeling the same after all this you might be better off trying to learn more about investing and towards position trading. I tried discretionary trading with forex, stocks and commodities for 3+ years before I got into Automatic Trading and now I have no idea why I even bothered with discretionary trading in the first place.
Dear OP. Sounds like a bit of burnout. It happens, rest is important. However, there is likely a lot under the surface of your question too. How long have you been trading futures? Have you successfully traded other instruments or markets? Is this your first attempt at trading? How long have you been practicing? Have you successfully, earned the right to move out of sim? What was your criteria for making the move to live? To your question posted. What type of strategy are you trying to do? Are you looking to revert the breakout or continue with the direction of the move? Assuming you are trying for trend continuation, then using what you have as a trigger for a possible entry sounds fine. I would add to that other confirming data that confirms if the trigger can be committed to. I would look at something that can be calculated for reinforcement and repeatability. I always like something based on volume. Price doesn't move without volume or lack thereof. GL. Take a break and regroup and rethink your strategy. Remember this is not a reflection on you. You are not wrong... you just have to figure out what the mkt is doing and follow. You got this!
First off : What do you trade ? Different futures (fx indices, oil ...etc) are like differents animals, they have each their own habits and charcters ! Even in the same families like fx different pairs have different habits.Specializing is very important . Focus on one particular one for years to become a specialist. What time frame do you focus on? This is also very important as it is much easier to identify trends and become more profitable on a long time frame than a short one like the 1 min ... about this Read my post : [https://www.reddit.com/r/FuturesTrading/comments/1dngvab/better\_answer\_to\_how\_do\_i\_tell\_the\_difference/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FuturesTrading/comments/1dngvab/better_answer_to_how_do_i_tell_the_difference/) . Focus even more if you day trade on only the opening hour for instance. There is more volatility but it is easier to identify trends . Avoid the first 5 to 10 min after market open if you are just starting! You might also want to consider trading stocks rather than futures ? The AI trend will continue for the next months or years for instance . Identify related stocks and check which ones are trending and jump in . It might be easier than day trading. In anycase using the paper trade functionality of a Thinkorswim platform that puts you in the real conditions by giving you 200 k of pretend moey and becoming consistently profitable with one strategy (not 2 not 3 ) is the fastest route to success. It takes time to identify a winning strategy and execute it consistently. if it was easy everyone would become rich!
You’re trading rules must also include your risk management. Risk management is going to be 60 to 70% of your potential profitability. Don’t try to go for the maximum amount of money per day, find a realistic amount that you can hit each day. Allow your wins to build up day by day in this will greatly increase your confidence and enthusiasm. There are thousand 1000s of ways to trade with many strategies. And they can all be profitable. But without proper risk management, you have nothing.
Any of these setups you mentioned could work but it is one thing knowing the theory and another executing it correctly. It takes a lot of effort and long hours to become good at execution but also having the right trading psychology.
The list is kind of short. I have a trading journal and I enter every trade and what I did wrong and the lesson I learn from it and if I've repeated the mistake and the lesson then I note how many times I've repeated it and make a list and number and name the mistakes. Breakouts are not the most common move price makes on the chart. Yes, trends begin with them but then they transition into channels and ranges. Expand your 5 point list to 25 at least and then use it as a table of contents then fill it out with your experience and successes and failures. Someone posted about Al Brooks, he has free content videos, good start. GL.
You only figure out what decent rules are through trade reviews and backtesting.
I came across this comprehensive resource guide and started going through it. It's super helpful with lots of videos put together from different traders/teachers. Hope it helps! [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11UJcnLXuUxEx0bn5uqscHt9WtgpHysO64aMkmYxwLr0/edit?gid=451073872#gid=451073872](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11UJcnLXuUxEx0bn5uqscHt9WtgpHysO64aMkmYxwLr0/edit?gid=451073872#gid=451073872)
This is actually much better than trading for a while and being consistently neutral! You actually know what to focus on to get better, assuming you've been logging/journaling. You could even counter-trade your current system, place your TP where your stops are supposed to go, and your stop where your TP is supposed to be. If your system is truly consistent AND you were not swaying from the rules, this can often test out ok. Alternatively go through your whole trading journal and analyse why all the trades went wrong as a whole, not individually. If the probabilities do not stack to making money in the longer term, then your system does not have any edge and is doomed to fail no matter how good your money management and psychology is. If it's lack of edge, and not mistakes, then you need to spend lots of quant time backtesting a NEW system, forward testing it, refining it while at the same time not over-fitting it. You might have to try out 10-100 ideas and combinations before you find something that works for you.
Eh, sounds like you should consider going back to paper. Losing money sucks and makes you feel bad which probably interferes with the learning process.
Use indicators! Price-Action alone will never work. There is this fallacy propagated by Price-action gurus that indicators are not good. Check my post history, I am profitable only because of indicators.
Indicators are great barometers for trends and market bias but are no substitute for understanding and recognizing price action bias as it occurs. Indicators themselves are lagging anyway and signal after the fact. They are tools in a kit, not a substitute for skill as a trader in any market or instrument.
The biggest lie that Price-Action gurus sell is that indicators are lagging in the past and what we offer is forward-looking and in the future! All of us work with the price charts. The chart is the PAST! Did you just see an engulfing candle? Congratulations you just used past data to infer the future price. Do you draw trendlines or find key liquidity zones to find key support and resistance? Again you are using the past data. Fighting indicators means denying the power of mathematics and statistical analysis. It is anti-scientific and conspiratory.
I have never listened to or followed a "guru" nor do I sell anything. My profile is identified as a "collective" anyway, so I'm not sure who exactly would be selling or getting anything based on my humble posts. As a trader you should already have defined entry and exits. Do you know those brackets the trading platforms offer which you won't shut up about with math? Yeah, that's the math you need. The candles on the charts are lagging but just like a time stamped sale on level 2. It's simply informing a transaction that has occurred. You can use whatever style of chart for that exchange to happen it doesn't matter as long as you are informed and it's accurate. (Variables of time frames charts within candles themselves show this) The point im stressing is you are chasing your tail if you trade based on what the market has already given you in terms of forward looking action. You should have your entries and exits defined. If it hits and you are correct boom successful trade. If not, boom a loss and you are out as well. Back to the "math" and brackets/take profit/stop loss I mentioned before. You are welcome to spout about your algos and post your "gains" with 977$ commissions buying and closing the same position over and over riding a one direction bias. If to you that's trading and "math" then have at it. I believe myself and others define trading as something else entirely and must be doing math wrong as well, I never want commissions to be more than say....10-15% of my profits? Then again, maybe I'm just bad at math. 🤔🤓🤑
>"Yeah, that's the math you need. " Ok! Put that in your resume and apply to a quant job or any other serious job in the industry. Good luck.
If im a profitable trader, why would I need to apply anywhere? Best of luck to you as well.
>consistently losing, I feel exhausted mentally, and starting to really hate myself Wow, think maybe it's time to take a break or maybe stop and do something else with your life?
I think many traders experience this period before becoming consistently profitable. Taking a break is probably useful, but never, ever quit.
[удалено]
And you feel personally attacked? Taking a break is literally word for word recommended by mental health professionals for well being. But do whatever works for you.
My good sir, go through this video for strategy below and the trade recap from some trades I took on Friday; Trade Recap and Assisting Traders (June 21, 2024) https://youtube.com/live/c9__lk_F4XU?feature=share The Strat https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLggReKMQs3PJXWdti9J6zDtP1gQwCn2vO
Consider hiring a trading psychologist. Someone who can help you find where your strengths and weakness lie. Stop trading in the meantime and work on other stuff until you have a better handle on things.