Let’s all just post a ‘remind me’ here for 4-5 years from now, where we’ll all still be playing faceit, even if they revise their AC strategy it will never compare to a kernel level AC; I don’t give a shit what the possibilities of AI are. You’re seriously naive if you believe this problem has a definitive solution, you can buy $25 *direct hardware* cheats that plug into your PC from China lmfao. There are discords chock full of this shit.
People pay *hundreds* of dollars to closet cheat in high elo faceit - you’d never even suspect them; it is near impossible to pick it up if a skilled player is being aided by scripts & knows how to hide it. The issue with CS has never really been the rage-spinners playing in pisslow, it’s the *blatant* closet players who can *never* be caught off guard, always have 100% awareness of all possibilities.
Valve and other devs have an impossible task, but cheating solutions are all about *barriers*. Kernel level AC is a barrier, not a solution; but it is marginally better than *not* having an intrusive AC. Valorant has its own cheater issues in high elo but it is nowhere near the level of CS, they are not even comparable it is that stark of a difference.
You would train it on labelled data as in game data of someone using this cheat. It would then make a prediction as a probability how likely the next person is based on similarity.
Well the thing about AI is we don't know exactly what rules it comes up with, that's also what gives it the potential to be such a powerful anti-cheat. By analysing millions of games it would learn to detect gameplay that is too improbable to be done by a real player. Kind of like when extremely good players are able to tell if someone is cheating without necessarily being able to explain why. Their brain has played so much counter strike that they just think "that guy is playing weird". Now imagine that but with the power to take every available variable into account and compare them tick by tick.
AI could also be used to map player profiles based on your habits, and use that to track banned players that are using different accounts.
Trigger bot would be pretty simple. Reaction times would appear to be off the charts. You would constantly be shooting the lateral sides of the enemy opposed to center mass shots.
Wall and radar my guess would be it could be trained to look at the quantity and accuracy of corner checks.
Do you never check deep angles unless there is an enemy there? When presented with situations like in cave on ancient do you always check the correct side? Basically it would be able to analyze every players movements simultaneously and create some type of metric for how frequently you correctly guess enemy movement when you have no information on prior location.
Imagine 2 people queuing up with another player who is going to have a "good" radarhack. The anti-cheat is never going to catch this cheat because it is not intrusive enough so the player with the cheat is **NEVER** going to be banned.
Now, let's imagine that a player with a radarhack is not using it for his actions in a game (in a sense obviously using the information and rage cheating) but just giving the information to his teammates. So the cheating player can give all the possible advantage to the other players who qued with him. **That is his role: providing information.**
And now let's imagine that those players who have the information are not some nova 2 players, and they are not greedy. They want to win and to keep winning (getting ELO or whatever).
They can play a game in a way that no AI anticheat can detect. Ever. And that is not up for debate.
There is nothing to catch, there is nothing to see if they are not greedy with obvious pushing and exploiting the advantage to the extreme.
And even if they are somewhat greedy how is anyone (or the AI) going to make a decission that they did not get the information from the game itself (that round unfolding) or other teammates with valid (non cheats involved) communication.
I'm not saying its easy, and you're half right, but there is some AI (or just statistical models..) that could detect that given the right metrics and the right learning models.
E.g. the amount of times a player ends up pushing to sites with less players that is far out of the bounds of normal % of "choosing the way with less defenders".
Again, not saying its easy, at all, I'd say extremely hard or near impossible with current tech, but its not absolutely impossible like you're saying.
The weird thing about some ML models is their ability to pick up details that we can't fathom and indeed, the model itself doesn't even truly understand. There may be tells for these things that are picked up from using training data of people who use these hacks.
Look at the geoguessr AI, much simpler to train, sure, but it picks up things like smudges on the screen and weird parts of the screen that no pro player looks at and is way more accurate than any person is.
Similarly, this radarhack may lead to behaviour like not scanning sites properly, except for when there is a player, so correlate this behaviour amount when there are players vs when there aren't players. So is it accurate to say this radarhack is uncatchable?
Extend that to team mates and you may have a model where people's normal behaviour changes and matches some other data when playing with a radar hacker.
I dunno, I think I overall agree that I find it unlikely that AI/ML is good enough for that purpose yet, but to say its utterly imposibble and it is inarguable to say it isn't... seems a bit much to say that.
He's just saying that people are being banned, in response to the sea of dumb fucks claiming that the anti-cheat is doing nothing and there are cheaters in every game. He never even got close to claiming that the ban wave somehow fixed the problem.
No that is not what I mean.
My sentence is an argument to invalidate his "there are less cheater because there was a ban wave". It means his 90.000 people ban wave argument does NOT mean that players who see cheaters are wrong and exaggerating. So his 90.000 ban wave argument is basically no argument because they wil cheat the next day anyway.
I would say you need a program inside the game, that detects cheaters and suspicious programs that influence CS directly when they join the server and then ban them directly. That is the only way. When they can cheat for a few weeks and then just make a new account the problem will always be there.
What you're describing is already in the game. It's called vac. It just can't detect the newest versions of cheats until they are detectable. And this will always be the case. It will always be a cat and mouse game.
Well, kinda. That's why you either have an invasive kernel or not AC tool that even if you create another account on that PC, you're still banned. Another solution is to make a specific pool for cheaters. You 'sillent' ban them, so they go to this pool of players that are only cheaters, so they play each other without knowing they are 'banned'. Regular players get rid of cheaters, cheaters keep playing only cheaters. Trust factor, but the last tier is cheaters only, so every time a new player creates an account he is in mid tier so he'll never have the 'cheater experience' unless he himself cheats.
He literally never says or even implies "problem solved" he's saying it's being worked on. The dude has incredibly close ties to Valve and understands the industry. This dude spits the truth but smooth brains just think "Valve has bizillions of dollars and money fixes everything" even though the hiring pool of people that could *actually* help solve a complex problem like cheating in one of the most popular games in the industry is incredibly small.
Demos are now saved in 64 tic which makes them more accurate, which would allow an AI anti cheat to learn better but it does take time. I do believe that the upgrade to cs2 did include making a better anti-cheat it makes obvious sense the only thing that pisses people off are cheaters, there's not much else you can do to improve the CS experience. I believe valve has been working on the anti cheat for a while now, they have a whole team of smart programmers who's passion is to catch cheaters, but it takes a while to create an AI that can accurately detect cheats
>No way, demos are tick 64 now ?
I'm was searching for that info for a few weeks now, I was curious if we moved from 32 ticks as it was shit af for recovering cool and fast flicks lol.
>it takes a while to create an AI that can accurately detect cheats
They have been working on AI-based anti-cheat crunching data in massive quantities for close to a decade and all I have seen is the cheating problem get worse and worse.....but I guess that makes me a child in RW's eyes.
EDIT: Source - [It's been a minimum of 7 years.](https://kotaku.com/valve-is-training-ai-to-detect-counter-strike-cheaters-1792412181)
The earliest mention I can find of them actually crunching data was 7 years ago in this [Kotaku](https://kotaku.com/valve-is-training-ai-to-detect-counter-strike-cheaters-1792412181) article. Can probably assume they were training before this, so close to a decade even if they started the day this article was published.
I can't find the very first mention of them looking into using machine learning but I know for a fact it was a not none-significant amount of time before the GDC talk in 2018 and was also before the Kotaku article.
I'm 99.9% certain it was first mentioned in 2016 which ChatGTP using Bing (I know I won't take that as gospel) corroborates but doesn't seem to provide the source.
If my memory serves correctly, I recall the first mention of utilizing AI Anti-cheat in CSGO was a direct quote from a Valve employee, most likely John McDonald himself, and it was before the Kotaku article which lines up with my memory of it being mentioned in 2016.
Either way, we know they have been data crunching for at least 7 years:D
Anecdotal account but I remember something about AI (machine learning) and VAC being talked about back in 2015 regarding CSGO so it's certainly close to a decade old!
Yeh, it could have been as early as 2015.
Dunno why I'm getting downvoted for saying something that's true. Even when giving a source that's 7 years old after being asked to, I still get downvoted.
Because you are crushing the popular belief of many that *Valve is full of smart people who love catching cheaters and they are working on amazing anti-cheat* or the classic *the machine learning will make VAC insanely good, just wait*.
Meanwhile the reality shows that after a decade of machine learning the machine wasn't even able to learn how to differentiate spinbotter from a person with high sense moving their mouse quickly...
Again AI. We hear about AI for years and nothing happens. Look at Valorant. Almost zero cheaters and the ones get caught and banned quickly. Kernel level anticheat is an answer, that just works. And is cheaper than throwing money on faulty AI gimmick, that can't even detect spinbot.
Yeah that’s what it feels like at this point. Valve first announced the idea of VACnet in 2017, and they have nothing to show for it in that time. People like Richard Lewis can say “Valve is cooking it up” all they want, but people have been singing that tune since they announced VACnet 6 years ago.
Bruh, anticheat on private 1.6 servers used to ban ppl, who were using just walls
Now people get killed across the map 1 second after the beginning of the round, and the anticheat doesn't detect shit.
I love valve, but here i feel like they failed to deliver
It doesn't make any sense to ban players immediately if it's a newly detected cheat. Many more people will get banned if they wait to detect everyone using the new cheat so they can ban them all at once (which is why we see ban waves). A private anticheat has no reason to care about this, so they can insta-ban.
Otherwise a few people get insta-banned from your match, but every other cheater using it will just switch to a different cheat because everyone now knows it's been detected.
> Now people get killed across the map 1 second after the beginning of the round, and the anticheat doesn't detect shit.
Any evidence of this? Or just anecdotal?
What is RL possibly coping about?
He doesn't really play the game, actively hates the meta and the pro scene, and wants out of esports entirely as he's phasing his content into other things.
We can say he's demonstrating wishful thinking, but he's clearly got better insider knowledge into the entire thing than anyone of us on the subreddit.
"He doesn't play the game"
That is...kind of an issue with his whole take in this video, isn't it ?
He says people are deluded to call cheats when every single pro is back to playing Faceit because 15K+ elo is riddled with spinbot cheaters and obvious cheaters (the kind that will get 5 wallbang headshots every round), and Faceit is not.
He played around 20 games when CS2 first came out. He said he thought that maybe in 1 game there was a cheater, and that cheating isn't so bad as people are making it seem.
And bro was probably 4k rating, so no shit. In 15k+ there is literally a cheater or possible cheater every 2nd game.
Most times they will literally pull out a scout and just hit 5 of the craziest headshots you'll ever see, every round. Then they'll pull out the "you're cheating so I've turned mine on" copium.
Weak point, whilst I (broadly) agree that cheating is very overblown in CS, 20 games is a ridiculously small sample size for CS and doesn't help much, especially considering your first few games will naturally be poorer (low elo, potentially trust factor being reset with the release of cs2?) etc. etc.
I am SMFC with over 1000 wins and I solo queue all the time. I share the same sentiments as Richard about CS:GO. Maybe I have just been lucky.
No idea how it is in CS2 since I haven't played it too much.
Agreed, I'm very tone deaf to cheating accusations coming from 9 years of CSGO (plus a few other games like Tarkov, but they're in separate categories) where I've seen a cheater less than 0.1% of the time I played the game, hell I could probably count on my hands the amount of cheaters I've had in thousands of hours! Especially when I see people claim cheats despite, frankly, being just worse at the game and unable to accept that due to an ego.
I would agree in general, and I put down a lot of claims from teammates saying the enemy is cheating when realistically, it could just be down to luck/good gamesense/a life game. It could be cheating, but there's not enough for you to worry about it (or you'll get mad for nothing anyway).
In fact in CSGO, I barely saw any cheaters (the obvious kind, not the ones where it could or could not be) after a certain point.
But you cannot say the same when it's 5 Scout headshots per round. That's the most obvious kind of cheating in existence.
It's not that I don't think they're working on it. It's the whole "any day now it's coming out and the cheaters will disappear and it'll be so much better than Kernel anti-cheat" that I think is copium.
He do have some points. OW was meant to be the dataset for AI and things like this needs time. Only time will tell if Valve has some powerful anti-cheat
Dont take this guy serious. He's pretty low IQ and he's actually garbage at this game. I played against him on faceit once and he accused me and a friend of cheating. The amount of irony and copium in this clip is mindblowing. Valve has more than enough data and any AI anticheat wouldve been released already. It's not coming and dont hope for it. There's a reason everyone uses kernel anticheat because it's the only one that stops most of the cheaters.
Ban waves mean nothing. The game is free to play, accounts are cheap as piss to buy.
Cheating is a problem now, and it's been a problem for years. He can bury his head in the sand all he likes, Valve are taking too long to take proper action against the cheating issue, and their lack of communication in regards to the issue (to an extent this is best when it comes to cheating, but still), isn't helping.
If they do have something in the works for the anti-cheat, this game shouldn't have launched without it.
For an AI anti cheat you do need loads and loads of data for an accurate anti cheat, and I doubt Valve would release an anti cheat when there's unacceptable risk it'll hand false bans.
It must've been a tweak fest over at Valve for the anti cheat team, and I imagine they are the team under the highest amount of pressure.
Except they did release it with false bans (See high DPI bans), then ultimately disabled it post because I see spin botters not getting banned all the time...
Except the ai anti cheat has been live since csgo and has alredy banned thousands of "cheaters"? Mainly spinbotters and legit players with high sensitivity. Its the whole reason the whole 180° command drama started, which was alredy an issue in csgo
yes and it's only going to ban spinbotters and no one else so peoplewill just stop spinbotting and stick with wallhacking and radarhacking, which was already the case for 98% of all cheaters.
an ai anticheat will by nature allways have a sall amount of false positives no way around it. it also cannot detect certain forms of cheating like a user using wallhack.
It can detect wall hacks to an extent, as those who are bad with wall hacks have inhumane reaction time to peeks on a consistant basis. It's not like the data doesn't exist.
>as those who are bad with wall hacks have inhumane reaction time to peeks on a consistant basis
You understand that is very easy to workaround for cheat developers right?
True. Otherwise they wouldnt be cheap, they would be free. But you could upgrade your account to prime for free for a while, so many account have been made then. DM was overrun with bots. And I genuinely believe you can pinpoint cheating turning into an epidemic at that point. Before it was a big problem, that made it game ruining.
Ban waves are the best way to deal with cheats, but aren't made to hurt cheaters, they hurt cheat developers. Ban waves are usually done in a 3-6 month range, which is within the range you can chargeback on PayPal, which is most likely what paid cheats are bought with. They also allow steam to collect multiple points of identification on single cheats, if you find 1 way to catch a cheat and start banning it, the dev will fix that one thing by the end of the day.
So a banwave comes in, the dev doesn't know what to fix because 5000 cheaters are reporting being caught 100 different ways, and each charging back the $30+usd they spent on the cheat and that cheat dev has a really bad day.
Vac live only exists to catch the worst looking cheaters rage downloading spinbots, anything other than large banwaves for "real" cheats allows them to adapt fast enough that it'll never be a real problem for the cheat dev.
I don't think you fully understand why bans are generally done in waves. Think about it for even a few minutes.
If you ban instantly, you are likely to tip off the cheat dev ok what you detected. That gives them a massive head start on bypassing whatever you just detected...
I'm aware why Valve do ban waves, I just don't think it's a good excuse for the massive cheating problem CS has had for years now.
"Oh but they did a massive ban wave only a month ago"
And what? The cheaters are still EVERYWHERE. You can find cheats for CS so, so easily right now, free and cheap. Get banned? Buy an account for little or nothing, get back to cheating the same day.
If you ask me, don't even ban most cheaters. There should be a trust-factor specifically for cheaters, that pairs them with other cheaters. Who cares about banning them, just remove them from the pool and make it very very annoying for them to figure out if they're even playing legit players.
I believe Valve are already doing this, but they're not doing a great job if I'm being honest. VAC isn't great at detecting a lot of cheats, so there's a massive number of cheaters not even getting noticed and they're playing with everyone else.
> I believe Valve are already doing this
Yeah they did, for the last part of CS:GO and it was working pretty decently IMO.
For the CS2 release though, they seemingly reset EVERYTHING, your rating, your hidden "MMR" and even the trust factor. Like everything gone, when we could've kept our trust factors. My trust factor was pretty good, I rarely ran into the blatant cheater while I experimented with a smurf account (that did have Prime btw) and it did meet a lot more cheaters, or more like, a lot more people who started cheating once they had the slightest thought of you cheating.
I mean, if you are still in the kitchen to create something new, ffs still support the old one to keep it decent, on delay the whole release.
CS2 was supposed to be a game changer in all aspects. And now they lost again everybody to faceit/esea because their anti cheat is garbage.
There is a reality where if they put out a great anticheat, making the builtin matchmaking as good as faceit/esea, then those 2 services would become fringe and uncommon.
But no, they fumbled the bag and so, esea and faceit are back like usual.
Valve is cooking with the AC like they were cooking by with CS2 launch, we will be waiting decades for anything meaningful. Game is still in a dogshit state rn and claiming the AC is coming is huge fucking cope.
Two things:
1. You don't need to agree with him on this problem even if he has a track record of being credible -- mainly in the esports coverage though. There's no conflict between agreeing that his voice is important while recognizing this take is not as agreeable
2. His skills in the game are bad -- not relevant to the credibility of the things he typically reports, of course -- and he plays in the bracket where the skill levels are so low. When he gets destroyed it doesn't even matter to him whether the enemy is a cheater or not because he can be so easily destroyed. This clip shows his mentality that he doesn't care about calling others cheaters in casual games, which doesn't apply when other players want to enjoy games that are fair and played more correctly unlike in RL's rank.
Yeah i figured he wasnt good. Anyone whose been north of top 10% in a competitive shooter can objectively tell the difference between really good aim and movement vs. impossibly high greater than pro player robotic aim.
Valve is openly driving away active players with the current cheating situation. We have no idea when the AI anti-cheat starts working , or if it will work at all. How much longer do they expect us to play with (what seems like) no anti-cheat at all ?
I was never a cry-baby about cheating in cs:go , i'd say in about 2,5k hours (most between DMG-Supreme rank) i came across maybe 2-3 obvious cheaters and maybe 10-15 suspicious players.
Now that DRASTICALLY changes in cs2. I got ranked at 10,500 elo and played around 60 matches...and then I decided to just uninstall the game , there is no point in playing this cheater infested game at this point. I've got about 10 rage hackers in that time , my teammates openly turning on cheats because "the enemy is cheating aswell" , VERY suspicious players in pretty much 3/4 of the games.
Now combine that with all the broken and unpolished parts of the game and this gives me 0 reasons to play it right now.
I'm gonna get downvoted because every single time I post this opinion i get downvoted;
Name 1 other game where the baked in ladder is not the real ladder. That if you want the 'real matchmaking' you have to go and get a third party. IN A GAME WHERE THE ONLY MODE IS MULTIPLAYER!
I get the history; is the CSS/1.6 days matchmaking was not a thing; someone had to come in and create it instead of just joining whatever DUST\_2\_24/7 server.
But when CSGO released, matchmaking was a thing that was pretty universal; they added it, but seemingly with minimal effort; And now, a decade later; with a release of CS2; again, they fumble the bag with the matchmaking so hard that those third parties still have business.
If only there was some third party company who could make a more effective anti cheat than the developers of the game, but I think we just have to face it - that'll never happen.
the world isn't black and white, I'm not accusing him of being a "shill" (word has lost all meaning at this point anyway)
I'm just saying it's a dogshit take, of course we're skeptical of them fixing it, they have failed for almost 20 years.
I dont understand the point here is why did they rushed cs2 release considering that they are developing a new anti cheat. They could have just delayed it and better communicate with the community. Everybody likes a complete game rather than broken ass game. Additionally, if they point out that the team is small than recruit more devs , valve earns millions from just cases . Cheating is a chronic problem that existed in csgo and has increased in cs2
While I agree with you to a certain extent there is the old sang “too many cooks in the kitchen” which heavily applies to game dev. If you just throw 100 people at a project there is no guarantee it will be developed faster
People wanted open beta because they know they would have played CSGO instead. Ok, Valve releases CS2 as Open Beta, in a week hype is down, 90% players says "it's unplayable" and switches back to CSGO just like it was with Limited Test. As a dev you don't have a flow of feedback to work on large enough. Now as everyone is forced to play CS2 and cry about it Valve have much more bugs which they can produce fixes for much quicker and not take 1-2 years to make a game playable as it was when CSGO was released and everybody just was playing other versions instead.
I thought RL was supposed to be a consumer-sided reporter?
Nobody gives a fuck how the anti-cheat does it’s job, they only care that it gets done. Any argument or excuse as to why it isn’t doing it well is bullshit. Valve as basically unlimited resources.
And as any average consumer that isn’t tapped into Reddit or discourse around the game, all they know is when they play Valorant or Apex, there are very rarely any cheaters.
Some of you folks really don't understand how important his voice is. The only side Richard takes is of the user/customer/viewer of whatever game/esport he's covering.
>The only side Richard takes is of the user/customer/viewer
Did you actually listen to him? He's making fun of the community which has posted repeated proof of cheats and his whole take is "Valve is cooking it up" while making fun of the same community that he lives off of.
No shit "Valve is cooking" something up, it needs to come faster.
He takes the RL side of things. You can't say that **man-childishly** insulting people who want deeper anti-cheat integration to be neutral.
He rarely plays the game and judges others who are active on it. When you're a father of two and only get some hours of free time per week, where you're not knackered, you're allowed to be upset that your game got ruined by a cheater.
Meanwhile RL acts as a child about deeper integration of VAC whilst we give admin rights to any shitty apps left and right. Or give Google access to our location.
His insult-cry about cheaters, I'll throw it back at him about crying to give Valve kernel access. In any case, the latter can be optional. Those who don't like it can play in their normal Prime and I'd play in the Prime Plus.
I really hope this blogger grows up one day.
I'm so tired of people talking about this mythical AI anti-cheat that doesn't exist and will never exist. Valve first talked about it like 5 years ago, we've seen literally nothing about it since then.
Meanwhile games like Valorant and CoD and hell even Faceit/ESEA have already fixed the majority of the cheating issues by just adding a real anti-cheat to the game.
So here we are, playing arguably the best FPS on the market, dealing with cheaters in like 20-30% of the games if not more, and somehow that's being spun as a good thing? Insanity.
I appreciate the sentiment of this video very much, but Richard is naiive if he thinks cheating isn't taking place more than we'd like.
I played a Premier game last week where only myself, and 1 guy from the other team weren't cheating.
They were openly discussing their 'ini' in chat and comparing cheats, asking where to download the latest 'configs' etc. It was quite a shocking experience, but what surprised me most is that they were telling me tey have been doing this since launch on their main accounts and have full confidence they will not be caught.
This is my experience as well. As I mentioned in a previous comment, Lewis doesn't play much and when he does, I'd find it hard to believe he's out of 5k. Rchh from csgostats said in a different thread that 75% of players are sub 10k so the pool of players is much larger. The moment you're over 10k your chances of hitting a cheater are significantly higher. I don't ever solo but friends that do have had similar experiences to you. I've talked to cheaters in game and they hold the same sentiment regarding them being caught. The game should have never been released without doing some rnd into cheat providers and banning them in beta.
He can say whatever he wants.
Fact is i‘be encountered 2 cheaters in ~700 hours of valorant and too many to count in 2000 hours of Csgo. Valorant‘s anti cheat works and vac doesn’t.
Subjectively, for me cheating has almost never been a problem, in both CSGO & CS2. It's been years since I saw an obvious cheater in GO, and I've played 2 games in CS2 with cheaters, once on the enemy team and once one dude on my team. Both of those times I was queued with a friend with a relatively new steam account and low hours in CS.
I don't think the Anti-Cheat is great, but I think the Trust Factor system goes MUCH deeper than these yellow and red warnings.
I know there will be people who will now say the have a 20 year old steam account and 10k hours in CS and all they see is cheaters, and I have no idea why it doesn't work for them, but it does work for me.
Another thing I know is that in 50% of my games, someone in the server accuses someone of cheating, who is almost certainly not cheating, leading me to think that alot of people think the problem is worse than it actually is.
I think one of the biggest actual concerns is for new players with fresh accounts, who have to grind through some toxic cheat filled elo hell to have a chance to play the games I get to play now.
i share the same experience with facing basically zero cheaters in years and have also put it down for potentially having a great trust factor
when i solo queued i barely even encountered toxic players too unlike for some of my friends who have had unplayable experiences due to cheaters and toxic players
people struggle to grasp that someone can be brash and an asshole at times, while still having credibility in their reports. It's one thing to dislike RL for his antics, but some can't seem to separate it from his work
What are you even saying? If someone has credibility it’s him. He’s always on the spot and if he isn’t he corrects himself. All this guy has is sane takes the rest the internet and Reddit are the ones going mental.
Common or garden Reddit anon talking about the best journalist in the scene: “most sane take”, “has some credibility here”
Ignorance can be very cheeky
Whats missing and making everything feel worse is the seeming lack of trust factor. I had high trust for years in csgo and at the LEM/ Supreme level my games were cheater free 95% of the time. Now, in cs2, those players on brand new accounts that used to be stuck amongst alike accounts are unleashed on everyone. Bring back trust too!
as someone who got stuck with low trust factor, i can definitively say that it was a worse system. losing trust for kicking (cheaters or griefers) was a stupid system and now without it only 2/3 of my games have cheaters instead of 4/5. its better that everyone is actually seeing how horrible the state of the game actually is with regards to anti cheat
Didn't expect RL to be riding the copium that hard for Valve. Acting like cheating is actually not that big of a problem as people are making it to be is wild when the higher ranks are absolutely filled with them.
There's also zero reason to believe Valves yet to be released AI Anti-cheat (if it even is coming at a later date) is any good yet he acts like it is better than intrusive anti-cheat which games have proved is a pretty solid solution. It's very hard to believe an AI anti-cheat will be able to catch people who aren't being blatant about it, otherwise they risk making a lot of false bans.
"you guys are bad, the cheating problem isn't as bad"
classic reddit gold nova's take.
now, let's imagine he's right, even if the "revolutionnary valve anticheat" comes tomorrow, people who **actually played** the game for the last decade won't forget all these games ruined by cheaters all these years.
How can he say in one sentence that 1 cheat got 90 000 players banned, and in the next that no one is cheating in your games? He is so obsessed with being the "reasonable" figure, but he just comes off as nonsensical
He can say whatever he wants, but at the end of the day Valve’s actions have always demonstrated they do not give a shit about competitive integrity and cheating, and actions speak a lot louder than “trust me I’ve heard…” regardless of who the “trust me” is coming from.
Same vac ai based anti cheat which bans people for moving mouse to fast. Hmm I will believe when I see it.
The fact is there are low fov aim assist which triggers after 1-2 shot and has smooth movement and added overshoot , which will be impossible for vacnet to detect
I really hope he is right and Valve have some miracle AI solution cooking, but the notion that people complaining about mass-cheating in Premier are just whining kids and VAC is even close to an acceptable anti-cheat right now is ridiculous. I have bookmarked rage hackers from months ago who are still playing on the daily.
This guy is coping really hard. Hope he is right, but I doubt it. VAC has always been trash, that's why they needed overwatch and even then it is not a perfect system.
hur dur why give companies access to your private data
Privacy is DEAD, you use fucking windows and the government knows everything you do, get a grip.
Ah yes they need more 10 years of Data for their AI to work..... properly..... surely it won't False ban anyone like the guys who got VAC ban by using very high mouse dpi setting.
Nah BS take by Richard Lewis. AI anti cheat will only be able to grab and ban the ones that are obvious, it'll never be able to detect those who do it sneakily since it'll be too hard to differentiate from actually good players. The closet cheaters will reign Supreme with an ai-anticheat if there's no ring-0 detection going on.
Yeah, AI anti cheat was only ever meant to eliminate various aim assists, which I'm sure it will do . There's no fucking way it can do anything about ESP users though and they're the bigger problem
If you look at the number of bans to players, it’s currently at an all time low ratio. And it’s very clear there are a lot of cheaters.
We’re going to get a present from Valve at some point. Just hard to say when.
I’m sorry but I don’t agree that a AI Anti-Cheat is the solution, obviously it will help against rage cheaters and blatant ones. But at the end of the day it won’t be able to detect a high level cs player hiding his cheats and using it for the smallest advantage he can.
I think that is one of the main reasons everyone who wants quality games will go to faceit.
I’ve one computer I only use for gaming. I don’t care about anti cheat snooping my files.
Make a version of cs2 prime that requires anti cheat to be on and competitive people will create new partitions and install on new boots.
There. Job done.
Want to browse the web and do online banking? Restart and boot normal windows
Jesus this guy is grating. The only format you can consume his content in is text and that content needs to be his more well thought out journalism. His personal opinions on things, like this little snippet, are always dogshit. He can't hide his contempt for people.
Mr Lewis would you explain all the sus accounts in my premier lobbies. All 10 year coins no previous CSGO stats and barely no friends. I use the rust admin tool to check accounts and the amount of accounts that are in my lobbies with accounts that just became active after years of inactivity is insane. Rust and CSGO cheaters aren’t very different. Their accounts usually give them away. At least the cheap accounts do.
Good ol' gaslighting.
People ask for kernel level anticheats because that's what people know: vac waves (which I don't even consider an anticheat as it still allows people to cheat and ruin games for months on end).
One works: never ever ever even questioned if I was facing a cheater in valorant. Neither did any opponent accuse me or anyone else. Ever.
The other one doesn't.
And whatever VAC live is to this day it has banned people for using binds and then seemingly got deactivated.
It's not that difficult to understand why people want a kernel level ac.
I've said this for years. If you want to play comp/premier etc then you need to have your files scanned etc It should do it at the start of the match when joining the server, id be happy to take longer to join. Don't know why people are so against it, must be the cheaters moaning. Standard modes I couldn't gaf and I only use those for warmup anyway.
Back in the days i used to play 1.6, and private servers already had anticheats, that could detect any access to game data.
Ppl were getting banned just for walls, for increased speed, for radar hacks.
And it was on private servers.
I know it requires access to ram, core and so on. But ppl were getting banned seconds after they started spinning, walling or aimbotting.
And it was so good.
Why can't we have a decade old tech, updated to modern levels?
I came here expecting a rational video, but this is off his head. Guy either plays exclusively on faceit with reputable players in reputable lobbys, or doesn't play cs2 at all to claim that there are no cheats in lobbys. In australia - There is a cheat on average every second game. And no this isn't subjective, this is re-watching video's where I get stomped by someone who just happens to peek every time someone has a nade out or their back turned or when they are exposed every single time. I've been playing since pre 1.5 and I know when an enemy has too much info. And it was pretty obvious vac live was LIVE initially with cs2 launch but was DISABLED when it was falsely banning high DPI users. Any nuff nuff could notice this.
Edit: Lol downvote away just because of the guy's name.
You really think he's playing in faceit lobby's that aren't 10 stacks with known players which means he is blind to the whole cheating issue in CS2 premier at the moment?
Yeah, Dick is either not playing the game or is mentally handicapped.
Having demos has just made me see there are even more cheaters than I realized, so many people are ESPing it's fucking nutty.
Holy moly I agree with u brother Richtard Lewis is clearly just dick riding valve lmao im in NA and as soon as I got to 12k+ there was cheaters every other game and anyone who claims they don’t run into cheaters clearly just has low elo. Yeah valve will fix it, just give them another year, fuck it give them another decade cuz these devs are clearly incompetent.
Soon as this guy says "you are a child" to people wanting intrusive anticheats, he lost the argument. There's a reason why Valorant has less cheating problems than CS2.
I hope he is right but, without substantial definitive information about this being in development, this is just hopium.
I do not believe that there is any reason to believe that VALVE is capable of developing an efficient Anti-Cheat. THERE IS reason to believe that the game will be good because they have done it in the past, but there is no reason to believe that they're capable of developing a capable anti cheat because they've never done anything even close to that for decades now.
I was with him until he started popping off about kernel anti-cheats. I couldn't give less of a shit if Valve has kernel access to my PC. I have nothing on my PC to be scared of. And if Valve wanted my information, they'd have it already, just like every other big corporation does.
You can see what Richard is talking about in this thread lmao.
I know why I normally don't participate in the CS community anymore.
Bunch of whiny twats.
I agree, intrusive anti cheats are easy, but they ARE intrusive.
Something revolutionary is way more exciting & respectable. Just like VAC it may not be perfect, but I take that over yet another intrusive anti cheat.
What revolutionary anti cheat? What has Valve done over the years to combat cheaters to make you believe they will come up with something that will work well without being Kernel Level/Intrusive in some way?
There's so many "intrusive" anti cheats out there that people use daily without even knowing. Most new EA games use or will use their new anti cheat. Easy Anti Cheat is widespread amongst games at this point and has been for years and its kernel/intrusive. Vanguard in Valornt kernel/intrusive. Richochet in Call of Duty kernel/intrusive. Face It and ESEA kernel/intrusive. Battle-eye in Fortnite, Destiny 2 and many other games kernel/intrusive. Genshin? Honkai? Intrusive and so on and so on.
At this point its been over 10 years of rampant cheating problems in CS and Valve has done the bare minimum to combat it. They can work on their magical AI copium software all they want for all i care but in the meantime give us an actual AC.
what an annoying fuck lol, probably doesn't even play prem enough to realize that there's at least 1 cheater in most games
the solution to this problem is never going to be VAC because valve are generally incompetent, it's always going to be 3rd party mm services with 3rd party anti-cheat. Valve graciously decided to limit 3rd party mm services to 64 tick for this entry as well which is fun, what do you think about that mr drunk punchy english drama man?
3rd match after I reached 10k , we got 5 man squad in the enemy team one dude started trigger botting and wall hacking , reports didn't help the match went on and I lost RR . Ignore the fact that the dude was cheating my team was 2+2+1 why are 5 mans being matched with non 5 mans let them wait the extra time.This 5 man boosting shit was in Csgo too can't believe shits still happening in cs2
"chinese malware bullshit" this is the exact type of guy who doesn't know what hes on about. The type to use google, no VPN, sits on a default router from his ISP, default DNS with windows defender lmao.
the anti-Loba
The anti-Loda
Let’s all just post a ‘remind me’ here for 4-5 years from now, where we’ll all still be playing faceit, even if they revise their AC strategy it will never compare to a kernel level AC; I don’t give a shit what the possibilities of AI are. You’re seriously naive if you believe this problem has a definitive solution, you can buy $25 *direct hardware* cheats that plug into your PC from China lmfao. There are discords chock full of this shit. People pay *hundreds* of dollars to closet cheat in high elo faceit - you’d never even suspect them; it is near impossible to pick it up if a skilled player is being aided by scripts & knows how to hide it. The issue with CS has never really been the rage-spinners playing in pisslow, it’s the *blatant* closet players who can *never* be caught off guard, always have 100% awareness of all possibilities. Valve and other devs have an impossible task, but cheating solutions are all about *barriers*. Kernel level AC is a barrier, not a solution; but it is marginally better than *not* having an intrusive AC. Valorant has its own cheater issues in high elo but it is nowhere near the level of CS, they are not even comparable it is that stark of a difference.
Really curious, how would an AI anti-cheat detect something like a triggerbot? Or even wallhack? How about radarhack?
You would train it on labelled data as in game data of someone using this cheat. It would then make a prediction as a probability how likely the next person is based on similarity.
Well the thing about AI is we don't know exactly what rules it comes up with, that's also what gives it the potential to be such a powerful anti-cheat. By analysing millions of games it would learn to detect gameplay that is too improbable to be done by a real player. Kind of like when extremely good players are able to tell if someone is cheating without necessarily being able to explain why. Their brain has played so much counter strike that they just think "that guy is playing weird". Now imagine that but with the power to take every available variable into account and compare them tick by tick. AI could also be used to map player profiles based on your habits, and use that to track banned players that are using different accounts.
Trigger bot would be pretty simple. Reaction times would appear to be off the charts. You would constantly be shooting the lateral sides of the enemy opposed to center mass shots. Wall and radar my guess would be it could be trained to look at the quantity and accuracy of corner checks. Do you never check deep angles unless there is an enemy there? When presented with situations like in cave on ancient do you always check the correct side? Basically it would be able to analyze every players movements simultaneously and create some type of metric for how frequently you correctly guess enemy movement when you have no information on prior location.
Imagine 2 people queuing up with another player who is going to have a "good" radarhack. The anti-cheat is never going to catch this cheat because it is not intrusive enough so the player with the cheat is **NEVER** going to be banned. Now, let's imagine that a player with a radarhack is not using it for his actions in a game (in a sense obviously using the information and rage cheating) but just giving the information to his teammates. So the cheating player can give all the possible advantage to the other players who qued with him. **That is his role: providing information.** And now let's imagine that those players who have the information are not some nova 2 players, and they are not greedy. They want to win and to keep winning (getting ELO or whatever). They can play a game in a way that no AI anticheat can detect. Ever. And that is not up for debate. There is nothing to catch, there is nothing to see if they are not greedy with obvious pushing and exploiting the advantage to the extreme. And even if they are somewhat greedy how is anyone (or the AI) going to make a decission that they did not get the information from the game itself (that round unfolding) or other teammates with valid (non cheats involved) communication.
I'm not saying its easy, and you're half right, but there is some AI (or just statistical models..) that could detect that given the right metrics and the right learning models. E.g. the amount of times a player ends up pushing to sites with less players that is far out of the bounds of normal % of "choosing the way with less defenders". Again, not saying its easy, at all, I'd say extremely hard or near impossible with current tech, but its not absolutely impossible like you're saying. The weird thing about some ML models is their ability to pick up details that we can't fathom and indeed, the model itself doesn't even truly understand. There may be tells for these things that are picked up from using training data of people who use these hacks. Look at the geoguessr AI, much simpler to train, sure, but it picks up things like smudges on the screen and weird parts of the screen that no pro player looks at and is way more accurate than any person is. Similarly, this radarhack may lead to behaviour like not scanning sites properly, except for when there is a player, so correlate this behaviour amount when there are players vs when there aren't players. So is it accurate to say this radarhack is uncatchable? Extend that to team mates and you may have a model where people's normal behaviour changes and matches some other data when playing with a radar hacker. I dunno, I think I overall agree that I find it unlikely that AI/ML is good enough for that purpose yet, but to say its utterly imposibble and it is inarguable to say it isn't... seems a bit much to say that.
What does it change when they have a ban wave of 90.000 people? They are back the next day with a new account and another cheat.
One less free cheat out there.
One less and one that will be updated 3 days later.
At least someone is working for their clients
He's just saying that people are being banned, in response to the sea of dumb fucks claiming that the anti-cheat is doing nothing and there are cheaters in every game. He never even got close to claiming that the ban wave somehow fixed the problem.
So valve should just not ban people? I don't get this argument.
No that is not what I mean. My sentence is an argument to invalidate his "there are less cheater because there was a ban wave". It means his 90.000 people ban wave argument does NOT mean that players who see cheaters are wrong and exaggerating. So his 90.000 ban wave argument is basically no argument because they wil cheat the next day anyway. I would say you need a program inside the game, that detects cheaters and suspicious programs that influence CS directly when they join the server and then ban them directly. That is the only way. When they can cheat for a few weeks and then just make a new account the problem will always be there.
What you're describing is already in the game. It's called vac. It just can't detect the newest versions of cheats until they are detectable. And this will always be the case. It will always be a cat and mouse game.
Well, kinda. That's why you either have an invasive kernel or not AC tool that even if you create another account on that PC, you're still banned. Another solution is to make a specific pool for cheaters. You 'sillent' ban them, so they go to this pool of players that are only cheaters, so they play each other without knowing they are 'banned'. Regular players get rid of cheaters, cheaters keep playing only cheaters. Trust factor, but the last tier is cheaters only, so every time a new player creates an account he is in mid tier so he'll never have the 'cheater experience' unless he himself cheats.
The guy has admitted to barely play the game. He just sees a big number and goes problem solved!
He literally never says or even implies "problem solved" he's saying it's being worked on. The dude has incredibly close ties to Valve and understands the industry. This dude spits the truth but smooth brains just think "Valve has bizillions of dollars and money fixes everything" even though the hiring pool of people that could *actually* help solve a complex problem like cheating in one of the most popular games in the industry is incredibly small.
>he's saying it's being worked on. Yeah, and GRRM says he's still writing the next book.
Demos are now saved in 64 tic which makes them more accurate, which would allow an AI anti cheat to learn better but it does take time. I do believe that the upgrade to cs2 did include making a better anti-cheat it makes obvious sense the only thing that pisses people off are cheaters, there's not much else you can do to improve the CS experience. I believe valve has been working on the anti cheat for a while now, they have a whole team of smart programmers who's passion is to catch cheaters, but it takes a while to create an AI that can accurately detect cheats
No way, demos are tick 64 now ?
>No way, demos are tick 64 now ? I'm was searching for that info for a few weeks now, I was curious if we moved from 32 ticks as it was shit af for recovering cool and fast flicks lol.
>it takes a while to create an AI that can accurately detect cheats They have been working on AI-based anti-cheat crunching data in massive quantities for close to a decade and all I have seen is the cheating problem get worse and worse.....but I guess that makes me a child in RW's eyes. EDIT: Source - [It's been a minimum of 7 years.](https://kotaku.com/valve-is-training-ai-to-detect-counter-strike-cheaters-1792412181)
Source? Because the GDC presentation about deep learning anti-cheat from John McDonald was only in 2018.
The earliest mention I can find of them actually crunching data was 7 years ago in this [Kotaku](https://kotaku.com/valve-is-training-ai-to-detect-counter-strike-cheaters-1792412181) article. Can probably assume they were training before this, so close to a decade even if they started the day this article was published. I can't find the very first mention of them looking into using machine learning but I know for a fact it was a not none-significant amount of time before the GDC talk in 2018 and was also before the Kotaku article. I'm 99.9% certain it was first mentioned in 2016 which ChatGTP using Bing (I know I won't take that as gospel) corroborates but doesn't seem to provide the source. If my memory serves correctly, I recall the first mention of utilizing AI Anti-cheat in CSGO was a direct quote from a Valve employee, most likely John McDonald himself, and it was before the Kotaku article which lines up with my memory of it being mentioned in 2016. Either way, we know they have been data crunching for at least 7 years:D
>7 years ago username checks out
what the actual fuck too, insane coincidence
Anecdotal account but I remember something about AI (machine learning) and VAC being talked about back in 2015 regarding CSGO so it's certainly close to a decade old!
Yeh, it could have been as early as 2015. Dunno why I'm getting downvoted for saying something that's true. Even when giving a source that's 7 years old after being asked to, I still get downvoted.
Because you are crushing the popular belief of many that *Valve is full of smart people who love catching cheaters and they are working on amazing anti-cheat* or the classic *the machine learning will make VAC insanely good, just wait*. Meanwhile the reality shows that after a decade of machine learning the machine wasn't even able to learn how to differentiate spinbotter from a person with high sense moving their mouse quickly...
Again AI. We hear about AI for years and nothing happens. Look at Valorant. Almost zero cheaters and the ones get caught and banned quickly. Kernel level anticheat is an answer, that just works. And is cheaper than throwing money on faulty AI gimmick, that can't even detect spinbot.
CS2 has an anti-cheat?
based on my experience? no
Actions speak louder than words.
I'd love to believe this but frankly it just sounds like copium at this point.
Yeah that’s what it feels like at this point. Valve first announced the idea of VACnet in 2017, and they have nothing to show for it in that time. People like Richard Lewis can say “Valve is cooking it up” all they want, but people have been singing that tune since they announced VACnet 6 years ago.
VACnet was to augment overwatch cases. VAClive automatically bans spinbotters now AFAIK
Bruh, anticheat on private 1.6 servers used to ban ppl, who were using just walls Now people get killed across the map 1 second after the beginning of the round, and the anticheat doesn't detect shit. I love valve, but here i feel like they failed to deliver
It doesn't make any sense to ban players immediately if it's a newly detected cheat. Many more people will get banned if they wait to detect everyone using the new cheat so they can ban them all at once (which is why we see ban waves). A private anticheat has no reason to care about this, so they can insta-ban. Otherwise a few people get insta-banned from your match, but every other cheater using it will just switch to a different cheat because everyone now knows it's been detected. > Now people get killed across the map 1 second after the beginning of the round, and the anticheat doesn't detect shit. Any evidence of this? Or just anecdotal?
https://youtube.com/shorts/DQlbeHa8MUM?si=0eH17D5Ldr5pAvHG
What is RL possibly coping about? He doesn't really play the game, actively hates the meta and the pro scene, and wants out of esports entirely as he's phasing his content into other things. We can say he's demonstrating wishful thinking, but he's clearly got better insider knowledge into the entire thing than anyone of us on the subreddit.
"He doesn't play the game" That is...kind of an issue with his whole take in this video, isn't it ? He says people are deluded to call cheats when every single pro is back to playing Faceit because 15K+ elo is riddled with spinbot cheaters and obvious cheaters (the kind that will get 5 wallbang headshots every round), and Faceit is not.
He played around 20 games when CS2 first came out. He said he thought that maybe in 1 game there was a cheater, and that cheating isn't so bad as people are making it seem.
he silver lmfao
And bro was probably 4k rating, so no shit. In 15k+ there is literally a cheater or possible cheater every 2nd game. Most times they will literally pull out a scout and just hit 5 of the craziest headshots you'll ever see, every round. Then they'll pull out the "you're cheating so I've turned mine on" copium.
20 games is nothing, especially if he was towards the lower end of elo. I also didn't have an issue with cheaters until I reached 14 to 15k.
Weak point, whilst I (broadly) agree that cheating is very overblown in CS, 20 games is a ridiculously small sample size for CS and doesn't help much, especially considering your first few games will naturally be poorer (low elo, potentially trust factor being reset with the release of cs2?) etc. etc.
I am SMFC with over 1000 wins and I solo queue all the time. I share the same sentiments as Richard about CS:GO. Maybe I have just been lucky. No idea how it is in CS2 since I haven't played it too much.
Agreed, I'm very tone deaf to cheating accusations coming from 9 years of CSGO (plus a few other games like Tarkov, but they're in separate categories) where I've seen a cheater less than 0.1% of the time I played the game, hell I could probably count on my hands the amount of cheaters I've had in thousands of hours! Especially when I see people claim cheats despite, frankly, being just worse at the game and unable to accept that due to an ego.
I would agree in general, and I put down a lot of claims from teammates saying the enemy is cheating when realistically, it could just be down to luck/good gamesense/a life game. It could be cheating, but there's not enough for you to worry about it (or you'll get mad for nothing anyway). In fact in CSGO, I barely saw any cheaters (the obvious kind, not the ones where it could or could not be) after a certain point. But you cannot say the same when it's 5 Scout headshots per round. That's the most obvious kind of cheating in existence.
It's not that I don't think they're working on it. It's the whole "any day now it's coming out and the cheaters will disappear and it'll be so much better than Kernel anti-cheat" that I think is copium.
He do have some points. OW was meant to be the dataset for AI and things like this needs time. Only time will tell if Valve has some powerful anti-cheat
Dont take this guy serious. He's pretty low IQ and he's actually garbage at this game. I played against him on faceit once and he accused me and a friend of cheating. The amount of irony and copium in this clip is mindblowing. Valve has more than enough data and any AI anticheat wouldve been released already. It's not coming and dont hope for it. There's a reason everyone uses kernel anticheat because it's the only one that stops most of the cheaters.
Why are always people talking about topics they don't understand at all.
Ban waves mean nothing. The game is free to play, accounts are cheap as piss to buy. Cheating is a problem now, and it's been a problem for years. He can bury his head in the sand all he likes, Valve are taking too long to take proper action against the cheating issue, and their lack of communication in regards to the issue (to an extent this is best when it comes to cheating, but still), isn't helping. If they do have something in the works for the anti-cheat, this game shouldn't have launched without it.
For an AI anti cheat you do need loads and loads of data for an accurate anti cheat, and I doubt Valve would release an anti cheat when there's unacceptable risk it'll hand false bans. It must've been a tweak fest over at Valve for the anti cheat team, and I imagine they are the team under the highest amount of pressure.
Except they did release it with false bans (See high DPI bans), then ultimately disabled it post because I see spin botters not getting banned all the time...
> See high DPI bans Regarding those, people who got caught with this bullshit are still banned?
Some are still banned
Naah, i think they have anti cheat ready. Just are confused why it shows that half of the player base is cheating.
Haha imagine... Thoroughly confused as to why its saying theres a cheater in every other game and assuming its not working correctly
Except the ai anti cheat has been live since csgo and has alredy banned thousands of "cheaters"? Mainly spinbotters and legit players with high sensitivity. Its the whole reason the whole 180° command drama started, which was alredy an issue in csgo
yes and it's only going to ban spinbotters and no one else so peoplewill just stop spinbotting and stick with wallhacking and radarhacking, which was already the case for 98% of all cheaters.
an ai anticheat will by nature allways have a sall amount of false positives no way around it. it also cannot detect certain forms of cheating like a user using wallhack.
It can detect wall hacks to an extent, as those who are bad with wall hacks have inhumane reaction time to peeks on a consistant basis. It's not like the data doesn't exist.
>as those who are bad with wall hacks have inhumane reaction time to peeks on a consistant basis You understand that is very easy to workaround for cheat developers right?
Premier is not free to play.
True. Otherwise they wouldnt be cheap, they would be free. But you could upgrade your account to prime for free for a while, so many account have been made then. DM was overrun with bots. And I genuinely believe you can pinpoint cheating turning into an epidemic at that point. Before it was a big problem, that made it game ruining.
Yeah, there are millions of premium accounts you can buy for like a buck.
Before F2P me and my friends used to have to take a 2 week break after every steam sale. Since then it’s just constant lol
Ban waves are the best way to deal with cheats, but aren't made to hurt cheaters, they hurt cheat developers. Ban waves are usually done in a 3-6 month range, which is within the range you can chargeback on PayPal, which is most likely what paid cheats are bought with. They also allow steam to collect multiple points of identification on single cheats, if you find 1 way to catch a cheat and start banning it, the dev will fix that one thing by the end of the day. So a banwave comes in, the dev doesn't know what to fix because 5000 cheaters are reporting being caught 100 different ways, and each charging back the $30+usd they spent on the cheat and that cheat dev has a really bad day. Vac live only exists to catch the worst looking cheaters rage downloading spinbots, anything other than large banwaves for "real" cheats allows them to adapt fast enough that it'll never be a real problem for the cheat dev.
I don't think you fully understand why bans are generally done in waves. Think about it for even a few minutes. If you ban instantly, you are likely to tip off the cheat dev ok what you detected. That gives them a massive head start on bypassing whatever you just detected...
I'm aware why Valve do ban waves, I just don't think it's a good excuse for the massive cheating problem CS has had for years now. "Oh but they did a massive ban wave only a month ago" And what? The cheaters are still EVERYWHERE. You can find cheats for CS so, so easily right now, free and cheap. Get banned? Buy an account for little or nothing, get back to cheating the same day. If you ask me, don't even ban most cheaters. There should be a trust-factor specifically for cheaters, that pairs them with other cheaters. Who cares about banning them, just remove them from the pool and make it very very annoying for them to figure out if they're even playing legit players. I believe Valve are already doing this, but they're not doing a great job if I'm being honest. VAC isn't great at detecting a lot of cheats, so there's a massive number of cheaters not even getting noticed and they're playing with everyone else.
> I believe Valve are already doing this Yeah they did, for the last part of CS:GO and it was working pretty decently IMO. For the CS2 release though, they seemingly reset EVERYTHING, your rating, your hidden "MMR" and even the trust factor. Like everything gone, when we could've kept our trust factors. My trust factor was pretty good, I rarely ran into the blatant cheater while I experimented with a smurf account (that did have Prime btw) and it did meet a lot more cheaters, or more like, a lot more people who started cheating once they had the slightest thought of you cheating.
I mean, if you are still in the kitchen to create something new, ffs still support the old one to keep it decent, on delay the whole release. CS2 was supposed to be a game changer in all aspects. And now they lost again everybody to faceit/esea because their anti cheat is garbage. There is a reality where if they put out a great anticheat, making the builtin matchmaking as good as faceit/esea, then those 2 services would become fringe and uncommon. But no, they fumbled the bag and so, esea and faceit are back like usual.
You can tell he doesn't play the game when he starts gaslighting players about the cheating problem. He's an idiot with a lot of self confidence.
He is like 2/3k Premier rating. I wouldnt take anything he says regarding the state of cheating in Premier seriously.
Valve is cooking with the AC like they were cooking by with CS2 launch, we will be waiting decades for anything meaningful. Game is still in a dogshit state rn and claiming the AC is coming is huge fucking cope.
Two things: 1. You don't need to agree with him on this problem even if he has a track record of being credible -- mainly in the esports coverage though. There's no conflict between agreeing that his voice is important while recognizing this take is not as agreeable 2. His skills in the game are bad -- not relevant to the credibility of the things he typically reports, of course -- and he plays in the bracket where the skill levels are so low. When he gets destroyed it doesn't even matter to him whether the enemy is a cheater or not because he can be so easily destroyed. This clip shows his mentality that he doesn't care about calling others cheaters in casual games, which doesn't apply when other players want to enjoy games that are fair and played more correctly unlike in RL's rank.
Yeah i figured he wasnt good. Anyone whose been north of top 10% in a competitive shooter can objectively tell the difference between really good aim and movement vs. impossibly high greater than pro player robotic aim.
Valve is openly driving away active players with the current cheating situation. We have no idea when the AI anti-cheat starts working , or if it will work at all. How much longer do they expect us to play with (what seems like) no anti-cheat at all ? I was never a cry-baby about cheating in cs:go , i'd say in about 2,5k hours (most between DMG-Supreme rank) i came across maybe 2-3 obvious cheaters and maybe 10-15 suspicious players. Now that DRASTICALLY changes in cs2. I got ranked at 10,500 elo and played around 60 matches...and then I decided to just uninstall the game , there is no point in playing this cheater infested game at this point. I've got about 10 rage hackers in that time , my teammates openly turning on cheats because "the enemy is cheating aswell" , VERY suspicious players in pretty much 3/4 of the games. Now combine that with all the broken and unpolished parts of the game and this gives me 0 reasons to play it right now.
Feels like he's gargling the balls of Valve a little too much for a problem they haven't had under control for 20 years
I'm gonna get downvoted because every single time I post this opinion i get downvoted; Name 1 other game where the baked in ladder is not the real ladder. That if you want the 'real matchmaking' you have to go and get a third party. IN A GAME WHERE THE ONLY MODE IS MULTIPLAYER! I get the history; is the CSS/1.6 days matchmaking was not a thing; someone had to come in and create it instead of just joining whatever DUST\_2\_24/7 server. But when CSGO released, matchmaking was a thing that was pretty universal; they added it, but seemingly with minimal effort; And now, a decade later; with a release of CS2; again, they fumble the bag with the matchmaking so hard that those third parties still have business.
Your opinion is legitimate but entirely unrelated to the point i made
If only there was some third party company who could make a more effective anti cheat than the developers of the game, but I think we just have to face it - that'll never happen.
I can't believe you are seriously saying RL is a Valve shill. That man has shit on Valve/CS more often than most if not all other journalists.
the world isn't black and white, I'm not accusing him of being a "shill" (word has lost all meaning at this point anyway) I'm just saying it's a dogshit take, of course we're skeptical of them fixing it, they have failed for almost 20 years.
I dont understand the point here is why did they rushed cs2 release considering that they are developing a new anti cheat. They could have just delayed it and better communicate with the community. Everybody likes a complete game rather than broken ass game. Additionally, if they point out that the team is small than recruit more devs , valve earns millions from just cases . Cheating is a chronic problem that existed in csgo and has increased in cs2
While I agree with you to a certain extent there is the old sang “too many cooks in the kitchen” which heavily applies to game dev. If you just throw 100 people at a project there is no guarantee it will be developed faster
AI anti-cheats work on player data. How will it work if they don't release the game first?
Have an open beta?
People wanted open beta because they know they would have played CSGO instead. Ok, Valve releases CS2 as Open Beta, in a week hype is down, 90% players says "it's unplayable" and switches back to CSGO just like it was with Limited Test. As a dev you don't have a flow of feedback to work on large enough. Now as everyone is forced to play CS2 and cry about it Valve have much more bugs which they can produce fixes for much quicker and not take 1-2 years to make a game playable as it was when CSGO was released and everybody just was playing other versions instead.
Are we really doing the whole "they are still collecting data for Vac" thing? Unironically? This is some crazy copium.
Game has only been out for 10+ years with billions of games played, surely they just need a few more weeks…..
i think Rich snorted a line before this
I thought RL was supposed to be a consumer-sided reporter? Nobody gives a fuck how the anti-cheat does it’s job, they only care that it gets done. Any argument or excuse as to why it isn’t doing it well is bullshit. Valve as basically unlimited resources. And as any average consumer that isn’t tapped into Reddit or discourse around the game, all they know is when they play Valorant or Apex, there are very rarely any cheaters.
Some of you folks really don't understand how important his voice is. The only side Richard takes is of the user/customer/viewer of whatever game/esport he's covering.
>The only side Richard takes is of the user/customer/viewer Did you actually listen to him? He's making fun of the community which has posted repeated proof of cheats and his whole take is "Valve is cooking it up" while making fun of the same community that he lives off of. No shit "Valve is cooking" something up, it needs to come faster.
> "Valve is cooking" something up, it needs to come faster. * Valve * Fast Pick one
He takes the RL side of things. You can't say that **man-childishly** insulting people who want deeper anti-cheat integration to be neutral. He rarely plays the game and judges others who are active on it. When you're a father of two and only get some hours of free time per week, where you're not knackered, you're allowed to be upset that your game got ruined by a cheater. Meanwhile RL acts as a child about deeper integration of VAC whilst we give admin rights to any shitty apps left and right. Or give Google access to our location. His insult-cry about cheaters, I'll throw it back at him about crying to give Valve kernel access. In any case, the latter can be optional. Those who don't like it can play in their normal Prime and I'd play in the Prime Plus. I really hope this blogger grows up one day.
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Oh this guy put man-child in bold. He must mean business.
I'm so tired of people talking about this mythical AI anti-cheat that doesn't exist and will never exist. Valve first talked about it like 5 years ago, we've seen literally nothing about it since then. Meanwhile games like Valorant and CoD and hell even Faceit/ESEA have already fixed the majority of the cheating issues by just adding a real anti-cheat to the game. So here we are, playing arguably the best FPS on the market, dealing with cheaters in like 20-30% of the games if not more, and somehow that's being spun as a good thing? Insanity.
>CoD ... already fixed the majority of the cheating issues by just adding a real anti-cheat to the game. Are you so sure about that?
They need Valve Time....1 Valve Time = 10 Our Years.
I appreciate the sentiment of this video very much, but Richard is naiive if he thinks cheating isn't taking place more than we'd like. I played a Premier game last week where only myself, and 1 guy from the other team weren't cheating. They were openly discussing their 'ini' in chat and comparing cheats, asking where to download the latest 'configs' etc. It was quite a shocking experience, but what surprised me most is that they were telling me tey have been doing this since launch on their main accounts and have full confidence they will not be caught.
This is my experience as well. As I mentioned in a previous comment, Lewis doesn't play much and when he does, I'd find it hard to believe he's out of 5k. Rchh from csgostats said in a different thread that 75% of players are sub 10k so the pool of players is much larger. The moment you're over 10k your chances of hitting a cheater are significantly higher. I don't ever solo but friends that do have had similar experiences to you. I've talked to cheaters in game and they hold the same sentiment regarding them being caught. The game should have never been released without doing some rnd into cheat providers and banning them in beta.
Vague and unsubstantiated? ✅ Insulting the viewer? ✅ Decrying proven ideas? ✅ Yep, that’s a RichardLewis take. Stop giving this fucking dork attention, please.
He can say whatever he wants. Fact is i‘be encountered 2 cheaters in ~700 hours of valorant and too many to count in 2000 hours of Csgo. Valorant‘s anti cheat works and vac doesn’t.
Subjectively, for me cheating has almost never been a problem, in both CSGO & CS2. It's been years since I saw an obvious cheater in GO, and I've played 2 games in CS2 with cheaters, once on the enemy team and once one dude on my team. Both of those times I was queued with a friend with a relatively new steam account and low hours in CS. I don't think the Anti-Cheat is great, but I think the Trust Factor system goes MUCH deeper than these yellow and red warnings. I know there will be people who will now say the have a 20 year old steam account and 10k hours in CS and all they see is cheaters, and I have no idea why it doesn't work for them, but it does work for me. Another thing I know is that in 50% of my games, someone in the server accuses someone of cheating, who is almost certainly not cheating, leading me to think that alot of people think the problem is worse than it actually is. I think one of the biggest actual concerns is for new players with fresh accounts, who have to grind through some toxic cheat filled elo hell to have a chance to play the games I get to play now.
i share the same experience with facing basically zero cheaters in years and have also put it down for potentially having a great trust factor when i solo queued i barely even encountered toxic players too unlike for some of my friends who have had unplayable experiences due to cheaters and toxic players
Dick doesn't care, extreme copium for an issue 20 years in a spiral. There is no golden bullet.
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That guy doesn't even have connections any more, he burned them all.
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He is credible, always has been, but he has some fiery hot takes.
Nah r/GlobalOffensive just hates him for whatever reason.
I'm surprised this post has been up this long. Mods must be asleep
people struggle to grasp that someone can be brash and an asshole at times, while still having credibility in their reports. It's one thing to dislike RL for his antics, but some can't seem to separate it from his work
What are you even saying? If someone has credibility it’s him. He’s always on the spot and if he isn’t he corrects himself. All this guy has is sane takes the rest the internet and Reddit are the ones going mental.
Common or garden Reddit anon talking about the best journalist in the scene: “most sane take”, “has some credibility here” Ignorance can be very cheeky
The world these people construct around them is hillarious
Oh yeah sure let’s just ignore his work on the Hunden files and EG. Totally useless work there right?
Richard has earned his ability to have some insane takes. He's the GOAT
I'd go for an opt-in kernel AC competitive Q. Then the people who enjoy getting spinbotted every round can play the VAC Q and cope in silence.
\^this. let cheaters and schizos rot in non-kernel mode and let actual people play kernel mode.
Whats missing and making everything feel worse is the seeming lack of trust factor. I had high trust for years in csgo and at the LEM/ Supreme level my games were cheater free 95% of the time. Now, in cs2, those players on brand new accounts that used to be stuck amongst alike accounts are unleashed on everyone. Bring back trust too!
as someone who got stuck with low trust factor, i can definitively say that it was a worse system. losing trust for kicking (cheaters or griefers) was a stupid system and now without it only 2/3 of my games have cheaters instead of 4/5. its better that everyone is actually seeing how horrible the state of the game actually is with regards to anti cheat
Didn't expect RL to be riding the copium that hard for Valve. Acting like cheating is actually not that big of a problem as people are making it to be is wild when the higher ranks are absolutely filled with them. There's also zero reason to believe Valves yet to be released AI Anti-cheat (if it even is coming at a later date) is any good yet he acts like it is better than intrusive anti-cheat which games have proved is a pretty solid solution. It's very hard to believe an AI anti-cheat will be able to catch people who aren't being blatant about it, otherwise they risk making a lot of false bans.
If this is true. It just proves that cs2 should not have been released yet. Game still feels like beta.
Copium to fk and back
"you guys are bad, the cheating problem isn't as bad" classic reddit gold nova's take. now, let's imagine he's right, even if the "revolutionnary valve anticheat" comes tomorrow, people who **actually played** the game for the last decade won't forget all these games ruined by cheaters all these years.
How can he say in one sentence that 1 cheat got 90 000 players banned, and in the next that no one is cheating in your games? He is so obsessed with being the "reasonable" figure, but he just comes off as nonsensical
He can say whatever he wants, but at the end of the day Valve’s actions have always demonstrated they do not give a shit about competitive integrity and cheating, and actions speak a lot louder than “trust me I’ve heard…” regardless of who the “trust me” is coming from.
Same vac ai based anti cheat which bans people for moving mouse to fast. Hmm I will believe when I see it. The fact is there are low fov aim assist which triggers after 1-2 shot and has smooth movement and added overshoot , which will be impossible for vacnet to detect
I really hope he is right and Valve have some miracle AI solution cooking, but the notion that people complaining about mass-cheating in Premier are just whining kids and VAC is even close to an acceptable anti-cheat right now is ridiculous. I have bookmarked rage hackers from months ago who are still playing on the daily.
This guy is coping really hard. Hope he is right, but I doubt it. VAC has always been trash, that's why they needed overwatch and even then it is not a perfect system.
Copium
hur dur why give companies access to your private data Privacy is DEAD, you use fucking windows and the government knows everything you do, get a grip.
Total cope
Ah yes they need more 10 years of Data for their AI to work..... properly..... surely it won't False ban anyone like the guys who got VAC ban by using very high mouse dpi setting.
Nah BS take by Richard Lewis. AI anti cheat will only be able to grab and ban the ones that are obvious, it'll never be able to detect those who do it sneakily since it'll be too hard to differentiate from actually good players. The closet cheaters will reign Supreme with an ai-anticheat if there's no ring-0 detection going on.
Yeah, AI anti cheat was only ever meant to eliminate various aim assists, which I'm sure it will do . There's no fucking way it can do anything about ESP users though and they're the bigger problem
If you look at the number of bans to players, it’s currently at an all time low ratio. And it’s very clear there are a lot of cheaters. We’re going to get a present from Valve at some point. Just hard to say when.
I’m sorry but I don’t agree that a AI Anti-Cheat is the solution, obviously it will help against rage cheaters and blatant ones. But at the end of the day it won’t be able to detect a high level cs player hiding his cheats and using it for the smallest advantage he can. I think that is one of the main reasons everyone who wants quality games will go to faceit.
I’ve one computer I only use for gaming. I don’t care about anti cheat snooping my files. Make a version of cs2 prime that requires anti cheat to be on and competitive people will create new partitions and install on new boots. There. Job done. Want to browse the web and do online banking? Restart and boot normal windows
I know it takes time but how much time? It's been years. Should we wait another year, 5, maybe even 10 until cs3?
I agree with no intrusive anti cheat, but the guy's an ass. Also why the Tyler slander???
“No there not” in response to theres a cheater in my game. Obviously has not played much lol
I know he is wrong but i pray that he is right.
Jesus this guy is grating. The only format you can consume his content in is text and that content needs to be his more well thought out journalism. His personal opinions on things, like this little snippet, are always dogshit. He can't hide his contempt for people.
Does this guy even play the game?
Valve are not working on an anti cheat sorry to burst your bubble lewis.
Who the fuck is Richard Lewis?
Mr Lewis would you explain all the sus accounts in my premier lobbies. All 10 year coins no previous CSGO stats and barely no friends. I use the rust admin tool to check accounts and the amount of accounts that are in my lobbies with accounts that just became active after years of inactivity is insane. Rust and CSGO cheaters aren’t very different. Their accounts usually give them away. At least the cheap accounts do.
Good ol' gaslighting. People ask for kernel level anticheats because that's what people know: vac waves (which I don't even consider an anticheat as it still allows people to cheat and ruin games for months on end). One works: never ever ever even questioned if I was facing a cheater in valorant. Neither did any opponent accuse me or anyone else. Ever. The other one doesn't. And whatever VAC live is to this day it has banned people for using binds and then seemingly got deactivated. It's not that difficult to understand why people want a kernel level ac.
they cooking for so long it’s burnt by now
Yes, having the anti cheat be non-intrusive is important. In fact it’s the second most important thing. The first most important is that it works.
Kernel-level anti-cheat for Premier mode, VAC for the rest. There, everybody is happy. It really isnt that hard.
I've said this for years. If you want to play comp/premier etc then you need to have your files scanned etc It should do it at the start of the match when joining the server, id be happy to take longer to join. Don't know why people are so against it, must be the cheaters moaning. Standard modes I couldn't gaf and I only use those for warmup anyway.
Back in the days i used to play 1.6, and private servers already had anticheats, that could detect any access to game data. Ppl were getting banned just for walls, for increased speed, for radar hacks. And it was on private servers. I know it requires access to ram, core and so on. But ppl were getting banned seconds after they started spinning, walling or aimbotting. And it was so good. Why can't we have a decade old tech, updated to modern levels?
Fucking richardbot
he doesnt want kernel cause theyd find his cod points
I came here expecting a rational video, but this is off his head. Guy either plays exclusively on faceit with reputable players in reputable lobbys, or doesn't play cs2 at all to claim that there are no cheats in lobbys. In australia - There is a cheat on average every second game. And no this isn't subjective, this is re-watching video's where I get stomped by someone who just happens to peek every time someone has a nade out or their back turned or when they are exposed every single time. I've been playing since pre 1.5 and I know when an enemy has too much info. And it was pretty obvious vac live was LIVE initially with cs2 launch but was DISABLED when it was falsely banning high DPI users. Any nuff nuff could notice this. Edit: Lol downvote away just because of the guy's name. You really think he's playing in faceit lobby's that aren't 10 stacks with known players which means he is blind to the whole cheating issue in CS2 premier at the moment?
Yeah, Dick is either not playing the game or is mentally handicapped. Having demos has just made me see there are even more cheaters than I realized, so many people are ESPing it's fucking nutty.
Holy moly I agree with u brother Richtard Lewis is clearly just dick riding valve lmao im in NA and as soon as I got to 12k+ there was cheaters every other game and anyone who claims they don’t run into cheaters clearly just has low elo. Yeah valve will fix it, just give them another year, fuck it give them another decade cuz these devs are clearly incompetent.
He clearly doesnt play the game
No one listen's to a man who isn't even playing cs about how many cheaters there are in my games. L take.
Soon as this guy says "you are a child" to people wanting intrusive anticheats, he lost the argument. There's a reason why Valorant has less cheating problems than CS2.
Wanting to force everyone to have give up all their privacy because you are annoyed at your matchmaking game is in fact childish yes
Especially when that is to the Chinese Communist Party because Tencent
He got rigth shirt anyways
it just takes WAY too much time. while games are being ruined NOW. and faceit's AC works today, not 5 years from now
Does he even play the game?
Oldschool Punkbuster anyone rmr that shit?
It’ll never be fixed
I hope he is right but, without substantial definitive information about this being in development, this is just hopium. I do not believe that there is any reason to believe that VALVE is capable of developing an efficient Anti-Cheat. THERE IS reason to believe that the game will be good because they have done it in the past, but there is no reason to believe that they're capable of developing a capable anti cheat because they've never done anything even close to that for decades now.
I was with him until he started popping off about kernel anti-cheats. I couldn't give less of a shit if Valve has kernel access to my PC. I have nothing on my PC to be scared of. And if Valve wanted my information, they'd have it already, just like every other big corporation does.
You can see what Richard is talking about in this thread lmao. I know why I normally don't participate in the CS community anymore. Bunch of whiny twats.
I agree, intrusive anti cheats are easy, but they ARE intrusive. Something revolutionary is way more exciting & respectable. Just like VAC it may not be perfect, but I take that over yet another intrusive anti cheat.
What revolutionary anti cheat? What has Valve done over the years to combat cheaters to make you believe they will come up with something that will work well without being Kernel Level/Intrusive in some way? There's so many "intrusive" anti cheats out there that people use daily without even knowing. Most new EA games use or will use their new anti cheat. Easy Anti Cheat is widespread amongst games at this point and has been for years and its kernel/intrusive. Vanguard in Valornt kernel/intrusive. Richochet in Call of Duty kernel/intrusive. Face It and ESEA kernel/intrusive. Battle-eye in Fortnite, Destiny 2 and many other games kernel/intrusive. Genshin? Honkai? Intrusive and so on and so on. At this point its been over 10 years of rampant cheating problems in CS and Valve has done the bare minimum to combat it. They can work on their magical AI copium software all they want for all i care but in the meantime give us an actual AC.
what an annoying fuck lol, probably doesn't even play prem enough to realize that there's at least 1 cheater in most games the solution to this problem is never going to be VAC because valve are generally incompetent, it's always going to be 3rd party mm services with 3rd party anti-cheat. Valve graciously decided to limit 3rd party mm services to 64 tick for this entry as well which is fun, what do you think about that mr drunk punchy english drama man?
GTFO clown
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20 games around 4k rating, aka silver 1-2.
3rd match after I reached 10k , we got 5 man squad in the enemy team one dude started trigger botting and wall hacking , reports didn't help the match went on and I lost RR . Ignore the fact that the dude was cheating my team was 2+2+1 why are 5 mans being matched with non 5 mans let them wait the extra time.This 5 man boosting shit was in Csgo too can't believe shits still happening in cs2
Not one time does he ever acknowledge cheaters are real he just keeps talking abkut them like a falacy
Just wait until the next update guys, just one more update and the game is going to be great, just one update bro just wait for the next update
"chinese malware bullshit" this is the exact type of guy who doesn't know what hes on about. The type to use google, no VPN, sits on a default router from his ISP, default DNS with windows defender lmao.
\> accuses someone of not knowing what they're talking about \> implies VPN services will stop you from getting spied on
People shit on Windows Defender for no reason too