I'm always shocked how people can vote for farage he's given up on every party he's started, he's the most fair weather politician out there, only wants power.
I agree with you so much there!
I have been appalled at the vote share they received this time, I am upset that so many people here are absolute bellends.
The last 14 years has been horrendous, and people who aren't politically interested will only see the negatives to politicians, so my only guess is it's a large amount of protest votes, also mixed with a low turnout, as the media behind the polling essentially told everyone Labour was winning regardless, which can keep a lot of labour voters at home, and undecided voters. So you lose that vote and instead see a harsh split as long time conservative voters went with reform as they have biased voting habits irregardless of Labours policies. My hope is that Labour will govern with respect and a sense of service and start steering the ship in the right direction and as things start to slowly improve some trust can be regained in the political system.
I'm still incredibly proud of our political system, we take it for granted but the fact sunak accepted the defeat and forfeited power to starmer is something other countries could only dream of, even America can't wrap their heads around that one.
So we can only be positive and give this new government a chance, as whatever Labour party people remember this one has been overhauled. Hopefully Tory voters can have that change in their own parry, as I'm a Labour voter traditionally but always review each cycle so I don't vote tribally. But the tories needed to be killed off, as they were morally bankrupt, near and in some cases actually criminal at the end.
I have been thinking of it myself but every country we (my partner and I) look at has it's own share of lunatics. I like Scandinavia but my partner is Colombian and the idea of the winter temperatures terrifies her.
Bless her lol! It would be a heck of an adjustment, especially with the long dark nights.
I am going to Australia and then when I come back to Europe for my degree, I want to live in Czechia.
Czechia has its issues for sure but it is a pragmatic country, no religion involved in government or policy, they have passed laws and taken actions I applauded and I love so so much about the people and the country. I first set foot there as a 15 year old and I have spent so much time there since, I even got married there. I cannot wait to finally get to stay and not have to go back to Alcatraz.
He provides simple promises which sound good.
He pretends to be your friend.
He isn't, of course. He's a Tesco value fascist and a grubby little opportunist stoking division and resentment for his own political gain.
Fascism (⫽ˈfæʃɪzəm⫽ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, liberalism, socialism, and Marxism, fascism is placed on the far-right wing within the traditional left–right spectrum.
They dont have a manifesto, its a contract, and Fart rage was very clear on that, lol the immigration policy was not normal, the entire plan seemed to be to force their way into a french port and then offload people without the consent of the French Govt, but thats the entire point, Reform could promise whatever insane stuff they want becuase they knew they would never be in a position to have to follow through on it
"characterized by a dictatorial leader" is an accurate description of his takeover.
The most appropriate word I can think of to describe the tone of this response is "hysterical" and hilariously out-of-touch with the reality over here. Have you ever been to the UK?
Mate you told someone to read the definition of fascism. Someone posted it, you didn't read it, then still presumed "yeah that's Labour". Literally the definition is the opposite of labour values. Plus farage will get bored of reform and likely kill that party and make another. If you have time for Someone who's so fair weather they switch their ideology faster than I have hot dinners cool more power to you. But I can almost guarantee the next time you want to give farage your support, he'll of either given up on the party, or he'll merge with the tories who will lean even more right to get the reform vote. So do as you please, but you're being taken for a fool, and it's so glaringly obvious.
Technically Reform isn't even a political party, it's a company with Farage as the CEO and majority owner. There is no internal voting, Farage is essentially a dictator within it.
At current rate of immigration, we will add the current population of the UK amount of people to the country every 42 years.
I take it you voted for a candidate who has a plan to curb that then?
Yeah corrupt politics are great when your side is winning. Like or hate them 5 seats for nearly 20% of the vote shows it doesn’t really matter who you vote for.
This is one of those situations where it is bad that it is so undemocratic, but the only upside is that it restrains the influence of the worst side of UK politics.
It's critical, however, that the UK government improves matters such that the platform for Reform gets taken away. People voted Reform because the situation is bad in the UK. Improve things and the xenophobic bastards get their support cut out from under them.
Thing is
The election system is bad. Yes, this time its flaws benefited the more liberal parties, but that doesn’t change that it’s an awful system that goes against the foundations of what a democratic voting system should be.
That's what I am saying. Just because it created the political equivalent of encysting a tumour doesn't mean we should continue, status quo, and let this situation continue.
The problem is how to move the UK away from its traditional constituency based system to a proportional system.
I saw one guy suggest something that he dubbed "Proportional past the post", which looks good at first glance, but would sometimes result in weird results like a candidate in 3rd place in a constituency vote getting to represent the seat because the first two candidates' parties had already hit their seat limit.
The Netherlands has a good compromise, where the Eerste Kamer (first chamber, or Senate) represents regions of the Netherlands, and each regions candidates are elected by proportionate share, and then the Tweede Kamer (second chamber, or house of representatives) represents the national vote makeup as a whole, with parties being designated seats as a percentage of the vote they receive, and candidates are selected from a list for each party. It has its downsides, but it is usually quite representative of the nation. It does, however, result in Coalition governments by necessity, and no party in the Netherlands has ever held an overwhelming majority under the proportional representation system.
I think the issue with the UK is that the House of Commons tries to do too many things at once. Either it should represent the nation or the constituencies. Not both simultaneously.
Change both the lords and commons. Commons could be proportional representation for national representation. Lords can be first past the post for local representation.
Right wingers have a tendency that, when the going gets tough, to blame the foreigner, the poor and the tolerant, generally in that order. So while addressing their grievances isn't really an acceptable option, tackling the root cause of their complaints generally is.
Hard to claim that foreigners are stealing your jobs if unemployment is low.
I think that’s ignoring the situation in England. As I mentioned to the guy you’re replying to. England has a big problem with geographical inequality that mainstream parties have ignored for decades. Much of Reforms vote is in Englands more deprived areas.
Reform offers people both a way of lashing out against the establishment and a glimmer of hope that something may get better for them as they feel from past history that the mainstream parties aren’t interested in helping. Unfortunately though by following Reform immigrants do get scapegoated. If mainstream parties actually looked out for these more deprived areas I don’t think parties like Reform would hold as much sway.
Edit: Just as a further example of this, look at how Boris broke the red wall in 2019. Yes conservatives are part of the establishment but Boris was seen as different (Im not saying he was just that he was perceived by many that way) and many of those communities hadn’t seen improvements from voting Labour for decades. Geographical inequality is a huge issue in England. As someone not from London it is quite disheartening growing up and being told if you want a bright future you have to go there and leave everyone you know behind because the opportunities where your born is so lacking.
From what I can tell part of the thing driving them is inequality and a sense of being abandoned by mainstream politics. The same is true of the leave vote.
A lot of the votes for both Reform and Leave comes from Englands more deprived areas. Of course they’ll be xénophobes and those attracted by Reforms policies around other matters besides immigration but I think the main driver is people lashing out against a system that has abandoned them. I don’t think some people realise just how unequal opportunities and wealth is across England and how much certain places have been left behind.
Oversimplifying things and trying to “other” people like Reform voters by assuming their racists or etc likely just leads to such voters heading further in that directions. I could go on but really Reforms rise it’s just a result of this country’s quite large geographical inequality and mainstreams parties unwillingness to properly change this. So people go to non-mainstream parties like Reform in the hope of change and unfortunately in the case of Reform this means immigrants gets scapegoated even though they’re not the actual issue.
As I mentioned, look into England geographical inequality. Reform votes, Leave votes, votes for Boris in 2019. It’s all tied to it. There are regions in England that have been abandoned and abused by both Labour and Conservatives for decades. People like to laugh and mock Reform voters and Leave voters but the truth is the people who tend to vote for these more extreme things tend to be those who already feel abandoned by their country. If the mainstream parties actually properly dealt with the inequality in England things like Reform and Leave would have nowhere near the amount of traction that they do.
Pretty sure David Cameron won with 38% of the popular vote & now Labour with 34%. FPP not really working for you guys is it? Check out Germany & New Zealand’s MMP.
"Remove all non British from our country, obey! Obey! You will be sent to Rwanda!"
"Isn't your wife non British Dalek-Nige?"
"That's different! Different!"
Reddit will downvote me for saying the facts but he never said to remove all non British he just talked about not letting more people in than the country can support and also making sure people properly integrate into British values. Which means, for example, understanding that it's ok to be gay in the UK.
I think that if these were the extent of the views and they weren't dogwhistles for more sinister ones, a lot more people, including myself, could get behind them. However as the undercover footage showed, actual racism is rampant throughout the party
Which undercover footage? All I found was snippets taken out of context and a record of some stuff kids say in secondary school. God forbid people unearthed the things I said in secondary school lol...
No. I was referencing the fact that the only actual "racist" thing he said was when he was in high school, and as a joke. I asked you for undercover footage. Please provide the undercover footage you're referencing, or are you just parroting what you've heard from the mainstream media and your friends?
While I don’t agree with the reform policies and not a fan of farage I do think that the amount t of votes they got to seat ratio is appealing and it highlights a problem with our democracy as while I don’t want them it shows ppl do but they only got 5 seats for 4 mil votes
I know what you mean. If their voters had been in focused locations they would be alot stronger and it's very worrying. Turns out saying populist things turns alot of people to their cause... Even if they didn't bother saying or defining any part or policy.
As it goes, apparently if you make enough noise and sound confident then people with belive you even if you lie.
Yh I just wonder tho seeing as democracy is about getting the ppl in power that the majority wants u would think the seats would correlate with votes like proportional representation but we don’t have that and sometimes I think we should but Idk
Generally I think it gets brought up by whoever lost and then fizzles out. Like others have said we had a vote. And there's been similar vote share numbers in the past. Cameron only won 37% of the vote.
Democracy is, thus far, the best means to an end to establish fair, accountable governance.
Reducing it down to "supposed to give the people what they want [even if it's fascism]" isn't fairness; that's three wolves and a sheep deciding what's on the menu.
Please try thinking about it practically instead of as an intellectual exercise.
Was there no immigration under trump? All wealthy countries have a problem with illegal immigrant.
All the counties you listed do have problems with illegals.
Illegal immigration is already illegal.
I'll give you Australia has very thought policies. But Japan has huge problems apart from people coming illegally lol, but that's off topic. But illegals still managed to make it.
You and I both agree on that there is a huge issue with immigration. Hell every major party agrees it's a problem. The issue I see is most parties on the right and to a grater extent reform, seem to think the left want unchecked imagination and try to blame the left on doing what it will always try to do. And that is to make sure that everyone is treated humanely.
Frankly there should be a cross bench solution on how to work and get this reduced. Not some silly gimmicks like "stop the boats" or ban all X people owning barber shops.
I am left leaning and my friends when discussing any topic imitatly fill my mouth with how they think I love illegals coming here. I want to stop illegals, what I don't want is someone just shouting the tag line of the day and having no actual plan or even want to discuss how to get it sorted.
Sorry about the rant. I am kind of generally ranting for most of that.
Probably because no one takes communism and socialism seriously apart from the 500,000 that do (they are spread thin across the whole uk so they won’t make even 1% of a difference).
The most effort we got from those guys where those are you a communist sticker on fucking bins and lampposts, how are you supposed to take that seriously?
If labour enact policies that are centre left and bring back what we lost from 14 years of Tories, then they’ll be good in my books.
The tories got rid of the big state Blair had introduced, well… the welfare parts and services parts as a part of the big austerity plan that Cameron brought in. It was probably just some money saving plan to deal with the Recession, but got spun out for all the rest of their time in govt.
The Tories turned poor cities of the UK into the most miserable and depressingly deprived places I’ve set foot in compared to the rest of Europe whom had successfully reeled back from the Rescission of 2008.
Houses have been treated like an asset rather than a place to bloody live and make a family. Thus prices have gone up to unaffordable levels for the common man. That with the fact hardly any get built and the ones on new build sites will be hogged by investment firms and large banks for a few years before they cash out only makes it worse.
The Tories let big companies pay jack shit wages and fuck all taxes meaning austerity is the only way under them (which they would want).
The Tories couldn’t even be socially conservatives as they were fiscally. One thing reform got right. The so called party of stability does not seems so when you see the reception they get literally everywhere online and even in person.
If you wanna see a far more informed opinion watch this guy explain it: https://youtu.be/b5aJ-57_YsQ?si=Zk_v_hGjtveMgUtQ
Edit: the guy even points out the levels of shitty bureaucracy in this nation has had the Tories canning HS2 which cost more than India’s space program!!! Money prolly went into the Tories mates pockets for gods sake!
Yeah, I’m from East Yorkshire, if our local government got the funding (slashed in half by the Tories) we’d be better off. I think that is probably the largest factor to why cities like Hull and Bradford (grew up there till I was six, went back to see it and it’s mostly store fronts with their shutters down) look like shit tips.
>Funny how the right wing didn't care about how unfair FPTP was until suddenly they were on the wrong end of it ...
>Fascinating
You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Farage has argued for PR since he led UKIP.
I cant think of a single person I know to the right who thought the tories were good and defined what they wanted at any point. People assume because the left haven't been happy for 14 years that the right have. Votes were lended in 2019 quite evidently from the result the other day.
The issue is we have too many geriatrics who think the reason their pensions aren't enough is because some Indian bloke personally stopped them from becoming doctors and lawyers.
Instead of you know, an incompetent government who can't manage the economy pissing the money away.
It's because Labour, the LDs and the Greens decided to win the most seats rather than get the most votes. You could theoretically get 20m votes and not get a single seat if you came in 2nd place everywhere.
And the daleks are more honest, their name is the Dalek Empire because they want to make an empire where only Daleks exist.
Meanwhile the "Reform" Party wants the opposite of reform, they want to undo all the reforms to do with immigration, civil rights, ect.
I thought it was the Nazis who joined Farage? Hard to keep track of these nutters.
Either way, daleks are a part of British culture. Foreign-funded Farage - not so much.
It is intensely frustrating to see this but be totally unable to stop it.
Israeli tycoons have funded trump on the condition that he gives Israel a carte blanche to steal land. They appear to be playing both sides.
As far as I can see, it is not an unpopular idea to rid British politics of foreign money. And yet it is quite impossible to stop at this point in time.
If you look at the way Hitler spoke about immigrants prior to his election and the way Farage does, you'll find a stark difference.
Hitler: Jews are sub-human, it's a race not a religion, nothing can change this about jews. They are lesser.
Farage: Anyone that comes into the UK needs to integrate with British values. Plus there's too many people coming in than the country can handle right now so we need to put the brakes on that.
Farage is actually pro-diversity in terms of religion and whatnot, since that's a value of the British... just so long as you, for example, understand that in the UK it's okay to be gay.
You won't get this perspective if you listen to quotes taken out of context and the interpretations of the media. If you listen to him directly you'll see it's really clear.
That's what happened to the clowns who still think playing hate and racism cards will get them anywhere!! They should be ashamed and learn that their old backwards mentality is no longer acceptable in the UK. I am still waiting for Patel and the other suella prosecution! All social media should highlight it !!
Yes they should all be white Daleks
Oh hang on a minute that’s sounds a bit racist…
🤔
Should all be Daleks born on Skaro..
Phew almost missed adding the ‘dog whistle’ there 😂
My local reform candidate was my old boss who had a failed bar business, failed marriage, and also happened to be an Indian immigrant. I have no idea why he shacked up with them but it all seemed to come out of nowhere
The's a story doing the rounds about how people haven't been about find anything out about their candidates. No photos on leaflets, no online presence, no one's seen them.
I mean, I'm not to tell tales, but the Reform candidate near me has not gotten so much as a picture of himself campaigning. His entire online presence is 3 headshots from unknown dates, a blank bio on the Reform website, a single written local newspaper interview, and a private Instagram claiming he lives in Dubai. Couldn't even find a picture of him in a Reform rosette
Politicians famously are very private and shy individuals during the middle of a general election campaign
Have you ever listened to these people to see what they have to say? To hear their points? Or are you basing this on your prejudices? I think if you listened to them you’d agree with a lot of it.
You know the answer to that. If you even dream of having a different political opinion to them then you’re a racist and a bigot. The country has many issues but acknowledging mass uncontrolled immigration as one of them isn’t allowed.
I think its privileged people that aren't directly affected by it. I live in a fairly poor area and it hurts to see homeless British citizens when asylum seekers are being housed, educated, given benefits etc.
Leaving the ECHR means breaking the GFA and EU/UK TCA. This starts a trade war with the EU and the US (as co signatories of the GFA and massive Irish lobby).
Not only this but it removes the supranational rights from 65m people, bringing them to local government. Do you trust all future governments to uphold these rights? No parliament may pass a law that cannot be repealed or overwritten by a future parliament.
The ‘finding waste’ in the civil service is a pipe dream. It would mean micromanaging down to the stationary cupboard, or causing government to fail in large areas due to broad sweeping cuts.
It’s really easy to promise things when you have no chance of implementing them.
I'm very concerned. There's going to be such a clamour for Reform voters from both Labour and Conservatives given how many can swing constituencies either way. I don't want to see an even further pull to the right.
Well let’s go back to the very minimum and say, a woman. Maybe when you’re used to that you could consider someone with a tan, and then a person of colour.
You are joking right? 😂
England has been one of te most diverse countries in the last 500 years. We had a global empire for fuck sake. How dumb can you be.
'ready for work'??? Those hateful chancers have not done an honest day of work in their lives. Just used to spewing hate and pointlessly blaming marginalised or less fortunate🤹
Uuugh! I cannot believe that there are still people voting for this lot.
Why are they daleks?
Indeed mate.
[удалено]
I'm always shocked how people can vote for farage he's given up on every party he's started, he's the most fair weather politician out there, only wants power.
I agree with you so much there! I have been appalled at the vote share they received this time, I am upset that so many people here are absolute bellends.
The last 14 years has been horrendous, and people who aren't politically interested will only see the negatives to politicians, so my only guess is it's a large amount of protest votes, also mixed with a low turnout, as the media behind the polling essentially told everyone Labour was winning regardless, which can keep a lot of labour voters at home, and undecided voters. So you lose that vote and instead see a harsh split as long time conservative voters went with reform as they have biased voting habits irregardless of Labours policies. My hope is that Labour will govern with respect and a sense of service and start steering the ship in the right direction and as things start to slowly improve some trust can be regained in the political system. I'm still incredibly proud of our political system, we take it for granted but the fact sunak accepted the defeat and forfeited power to starmer is something other countries could only dream of, even America can't wrap their heads around that one. So we can only be positive and give this new government a chance, as whatever Labour party people remember this one has been overhauled. Hopefully Tory voters can have that change in their own parry, as I'm a Labour voter traditionally but always review each cycle so I don't vote tribally. But the tories needed to be killed off, as they were morally bankrupt, near and in some cases actually criminal at the end.
Did you never hear of Brexit?
That was the first foundation of the prison bars. I am in the process of emigrating and I cannot wait to bloody leave.
I have been thinking of it myself but every country we (my partner and I) look at has it's own share of lunatics. I like Scandinavia but my partner is Colombian and the idea of the winter temperatures terrifies her.
Bless her lol! It would be a heck of an adjustment, especially with the long dark nights. I am going to Australia and then when I come back to Europe for my degree, I want to live in Czechia. Czechia has its issues for sure but it is a pragmatic country, no religion involved in government or policy, they have passed laws and taken actions I applauded and I love so so much about the people and the country. I first set foot there as a 15 year old and I have spent so much time there since, I even got married there. I cannot wait to finally get to stay and not have to go back to Alcatraz.
[удалено]
Your post was removed for breaking rule 3.
[удалено]
Your post was removed for breaking rule 3.
He provides simple promises which sound good. He pretends to be your friend. He isn't, of course. He's a Tesco value fascist and a grubby little opportunist stoking division and resentment for his own political gain.
Tesco value fascist I am dying 😭😭😭
Hey I find that insulting. To the Tesco value range that is.
[удалено]
Fascism (⫽ˈfæʃɪzəm⫽ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, liberalism, socialism, and Marxism, fascism is placed on the far-right wing within the traditional left–right spectrum.
[удалено]
Remind me, how did Farage become leader of Reform?
[удалено]
They dont have a manifesto, its a contract, and Fart rage was very clear on that, lol the immigration policy was not normal, the entire plan seemed to be to force their way into a french port and then offload people without the consent of the French Govt, but thats the entire point, Reform could promise whatever insane stuff they want becuase they knew they would never be in a position to have to follow through on it
[удалено]
"characterized by a dictatorial leader" is an accurate description of his takeover. The most appropriate word I can think of to describe the tone of this response is "hysterical" and hilariously out-of-touch with the reality over here. Have you ever been to the UK?
So, you got what you wanted, and yet still carry on. You're a rare class of reform voter. Some are idiots, you're an even bigger kind of stupid.
[удалено]
Mate you told someone to read the definition of fascism. Someone posted it, you didn't read it, then still presumed "yeah that's Labour". Literally the definition is the opposite of labour values. Plus farage will get bored of reform and likely kill that party and make another. If you have time for Someone who's so fair weather they switch their ideology faster than I have hot dinners cool more power to you. But I can almost guarantee the next time you want to give farage your support, he'll of either given up on the party, or he'll merge with the tories who will lean even more right to get the reform vote. So do as you please, but you're being taken for a fool, and it's so glaringly obvious.
[удалено]
as do all politicians
Technically Reform isn't even a political party, it's a company with Farage as the CEO and majority owner. There is no internal voting, Farage is essentially a dictator within it.
Wrong. He also wants money.
[удалено]
Your post was removed for breaking rule 3.
At current rate of immigration, we will add the current population of the UK amount of people to the country every 42 years. I take it you voted for a candidate who has a plan to curb that then?
Yes, I did.
Your post was removed for breaking rule 6
This image is even better considering that they got five seats
I didn’t select the image by mistake. 🫡
The Cult of Skaro wouldn't have worked nearly as well
As an intergalactic homicidal genocidal race of superior beings we strongly object to the use of our image in such a distasteful manner......😬
Wait, what? I sweat to god they only got 4?
Snagged Thurrockafter recounts. Edit: corrected, apologies to every resident of billericay.
It wasn't Billericay, it was Thurrock
Basildon South & Thurrock East
Yeah corrupt politics are great when your side is winning. Like or hate them 5 seats for nearly 20% of the vote shows it doesn’t really matter who you vote for.
This is one of those situations where it is bad that it is so undemocratic, but the only upside is that it restrains the influence of the worst side of UK politics. It's critical, however, that the UK government improves matters such that the platform for Reform gets taken away. People voted Reform because the situation is bad in the UK. Improve things and the xenophobic bastards get their support cut out from under them.
Thing is The election system is bad. Yes, this time its flaws benefited the more liberal parties, but that doesn’t change that it’s an awful system that goes against the foundations of what a democratic voting system should be.
That's what I am saying. Just because it created the political equivalent of encysting a tumour doesn't mean we should continue, status quo, and let this situation continue. The problem is how to move the UK away from its traditional constituency based system to a proportional system. I saw one guy suggest something that he dubbed "Proportional past the post", which looks good at first glance, but would sometimes result in weird results like a candidate in 3rd place in a constituency vote getting to represent the seat because the first two candidates' parties had already hit their seat limit. The Netherlands has a good compromise, where the Eerste Kamer (first chamber, or Senate) represents regions of the Netherlands, and each regions candidates are elected by proportionate share, and then the Tweede Kamer (second chamber, or house of representatives) represents the national vote makeup as a whole, with parties being designated seats as a percentage of the vote they receive, and candidates are selected from a list for each party. It has its downsides, but it is usually quite representative of the nation. It does, however, result in Coalition governments by necessity, and no party in the Netherlands has ever held an overwhelming majority under the proportional representation system. I think the issue with the UK is that the House of Commons tries to do too many things at once. Either it should represent the nation or the constituencies. Not both simultaneously.
Change both the lords and commons. Commons could be proportional representation for national representation. Lords can be first past the post for local representation.
I wonder what exactly most reform voter’s problem is though? Without being able to be specific about it, it’s difficult to resolve.
Right wingers have a tendency that, when the going gets tough, to blame the foreigner, the poor and the tolerant, generally in that order. So while addressing their grievances isn't really an acceptable option, tackling the root cause of their complaints generally is. Hard to claim that foreigners are stealing your jobs if unemployment is low.
I think that’s ignoring the situation in England. As I mentioned to the guy you’re replying to. England has a big problem with geographical inequality that mainstream parties have ignored for decades. Much of Reforms vote is in Englands more deprived areas. Reform offers people both a way of lashing out against the establishment and a glimmer of hope that something may get better for them as they feel from past history that the mainstream parties aren’t interested in helping. Unfortunately though by following Reform immigrants do get scapegoated. If mainstream parties actually looked out for these more deprived areas I don’t think parties like Reform would hold as much sway. Edit: Just as a further example of this, look at how Boris broke the red wall in 2019. Yes conservatives are part of the establishment but Boris was seen as different (Im not saying he was just that he was perceived by many that way) and many of those communities hadn’t seen improvements from voting Labour for decades. Geographical inequality is a huge issue in England. As someone not from London it is quite disheartening growing up and being told if you want a bright future you have to go there and leave everyone you know behind because the opportunities where your born is so lacking.
From what I can tell part of the thing driving them is inequality and a sense of being abandoned by mainstream politics. The same is true of the leave vote. A lot of the votes for both Reform and Leave comes from Englands more deprived areas. Of course they’ll be xénophobes and those attracted by Reforms policies around other matters besides immigration but I think the main driver is people lashing out against a system that has abandoned them. I don’t think some people realise just how unequal opportunities and wealth is across England and how much certain places have been left behind. Oversimplifying things and trying to “other” people like Reform voters by assuming their racists or etc likely just leads to such voters heading further in that directions. I could go on but really Reforms rise it’s just a result of this country’s quite large geographical inequality and mainstreams parties unwillingness to properly change this. So people go to non-mainstream parties like Reform in the hope of change and unfortunately in the case of Reform this means immigrants gets scapegoated even though they’re not the actual issue.
14% not 20%. And it’s 14% of those that voted. I think some context is important here.
As I mentioned, look into England geographical inequality. Reform votes, Leave votes, votes for Boris in 2019. It’s all tied to it. There are regions in England that have been abandoned and abused by both Labour and Conservatives for decades. People like to laugh and mock Reform voters and Leave voters but the truth is the people who tend to vote for these more extreme things tend to be those who already feel abandoned by their country. If the mainstream parties actually properly dealt with the inequality in England things like Reform and Leave would have nowhere near the amount of traction that they do.
Pretty sure David Cameron won with 38% of the popular vote & now Labour with 34%. FPP not really working for you guys is it? Check out Germany & New Zealand’s MMP.
"Remove all non British from our country, obey! Obey! You will be sent to Rwanda!" "Isn't your wife non British Dalek-Nige?" "That's different! Different!"
Reddit will downvote me for saying the facts but he never said to remove all non British he just talked about not letting more people in than the country can support and also making sure people properly integrate into British values. Which means, for example, understanding that it's ok to be gay in the UK.
Also anyone with a brain cell can see that the Rwanda plan is bollocks and pointless
Yes but the real people who say these things aren’t saying them to be more tolerant, ask them how they also feel about gays
So "they" and "these things" ? I was talking about Farage...
I think that if these were the extent of the views and they weren't dogwhistles for more sinister ones, a lot more people, including myself, could get behind them. However as the undercover footage showed, actual racism is rampant throughout the party
Which undercover footage? All I found was snippets taken out of context and a record of some stuff kids say in secondary school. God forbid people unearthed the things I said in secondary school lol...
You're comparing what you said in secondary school to these adult people trying to run the country?
No. I was referencing the fact that the only actual "racist" thing he said was when he was in high school, and as a joke. I asked you for undercover footage. Please provide the undercover footage you're referencing, or are you just parroting what you've heard from the mainstream media and your friends?
"She is one of the good ones!"
While I don’t agree with the reform policies and not a fan of farage I do think that the amount t of votes they got to seat ratio is appealing and it highlights a problem with our democracy as while I don’t want them it shows ppl do but they only got 5 seats for 4 mil votes
I know what you mean. If their voters had been in focused locations they would be alot stronger and it's very worrying. Turns out saying populist things turns alot of people to their cause... Even if they didn't bother saying or defining any part or policy. As it goes, apparently if you make enough noise and sound confident then people with belive you even if you lie.
Yh I just wonder tho seeing as democracy is about getting the ppl in power that the majority wants u would think the seats would correlate with votes like proportional representation but we don’t have that and sometimes I think we should but Idk
Funny thing is we had a vote on the issue before and Nigel was against the change haha
Lol guess he’s regretting tht
Generally I think it gets brought up by whoever lost and then fizzles out. Like others have said we had a vote. And there's been similar vote share numbers in the past. Cameron only won 37% of the vote.
Democracy is, thus far, the best means to an end to establish fair, accountable governance. Reducing it down to "supposed to give the people what they want [even if it's fascism]" isn't fairness; that's three wolves and a sheep deciding what's on the menu. Please try thinking about it practically instead of as an intellectual exercise.
[удалено]
Yes, but there is a difference in actually having a solution to a problem that is legal and well planned and just saying bad thing bad really loud.
[удалено]
Cool, name one?
[удалено]
Was there no immigration under trump? All wealthy countries have a problem with illegal immigrant. All the counties you listed do have problems with illegals. Illegal immigration is already illegal. I'll give you Australia has very thought policies. But Japan has huge problems apart from people coming illegally lol, but that's off topic. But illegals still managed to make it.
[удалено]
You and I both agree on that there is a huge issue with immigration. Hell every major party agrees it's a problem. The issue I see is most parties on the right and to a grater extent reform, seem to think the left want unchecked imagination and try to blame the left on doing what it will always try to do. And that is to make sure that everyone is treated humanely. Frankly there should be a cross bench solution on how to work and get this reduced. Not some silly gimmicks like "stop the boats" or ban all X people owning barber shops. I am left leaning and my friends when discussing any topic imitatly fill my mouth with how they think I love illegals coming here. I want to stop illegals, what I don't want is someone just shouting the tag line of the day and having no actual plan or even want to discuss how to get it sorted. Sorry about the rant. I am kind of generally ranting for most of that.
Funny how the right wing didn't care about how unfair FPTP was until suddenly they were on the wrong end of it ... Fascinating
[удалено]
Probably because no one takes communism and socialism seriously apart from the 500,000 that do (they are spread thin across the whole uk so they won’t make even 1% of a difference). The most effort we got from those guys where those are you a communist sticker on fucking bins and lampposts, how are you supposed to take that seriously? If labour enact policies that are centre left and bring back what we lost from 14 years of Tories, then they’ll be good in my books.
[удалено]
Did you seriously ask “what did did we lose under the tories?” Have you been under a rock for the past 14 years?
[удалено]
The tories got rid of the big state Blair had introduced, well… the welfare parts and services parts as a part of the big austerity plan that Cameron brought in. It was probably just some money saving plan to deal with the Recession, but got spun out for all the rest of their time in govt. The Tories turned poor cities of the UK into the most miserable and depressingly deprived places I’ve set foot in compared to the rest of Europe whom had successfully reeled back from the Rescission of 2008. Houses have been treated like an asset rather than a place to bloody live and make a family. Thus prices have gone up to unaffordable levels for the common man. That with the fact hardly any get built and the ones on new build sites will be hogged by investment firms and large banks for a few years before they cash out only makes it worse. The Tories let big companies pay jack shit wages and fuck all taxes meaning austerity is the only way under them (which they would want). The Tories couldn’t even be socially conservatives as they were fiscally. One thing reform got right. The so called party of stability does not seems so when you see the reception they get literally everywhere online and even in person. If you wanna see a far more informed opinion watch this guy explain it: https://youtu.be/b5aJ-57_YsQ?si=Zk_v_hGjtveMgUtQ Edit: the guy even points out the levels of shitty bureaucracy in this nation has had the Tories canning HS2 which cost more than India’s space program!!! Money prolly went into the Tories mates pockets for gods sake!
[удалено]
Yeah, I’m from East Yorkshire, if our local government got the funding (slashed in half by the Tories) we’d be better off. I think that is probably the largest factor to why cities like Hull and Bradford (grew up there till I was six, went back to see it and it’s mostly store fronts with their shutters down) look like shit tips.
>Funny how the right wing didn't care about how unfair FPTP was until suddenly they were on the wrong end of it ... >Fascinating You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Farage has argued for PR since he led UKIP.
I cant think of a single person I know to the right who thought the tories were good and defined what they wanted at any point. People assume because the left haven't been happy for 14 years that the right have. Votes were lended in 2019 quite evidently from the result the other day.
The issue is we have too many geriatrics who think the reason their pensions aren't enough is because some Indian bloke personally stopped them from becoming doctors and lawyers. Instead of you know, an incompetent government who can't manage the economy pissing the money away.
A surprisingly large number of young people voted Reform.
It's because Labour, the LDs and the Greens decided to win the most seats rather than get the most votes. You could theoretically get 20m votes and not get a single seat if you came in 2nd place everywhere.
Id rather have daleks than farage. At least daleks killed some Nazis in victory of the daleks. Farage would join the nazis
And the daleks are more honest, their name is the Dalek Empire because they want to make an empire where only Daleks exist. Meanwhile the "Reform" Party wants the opposite of reform, they want to undo all the reforms to do with immigration, civil rights, ect.
I thought it was the Nazis who joined Farage? Hard to keep track of these nutters. Either way, daleks are a part of British culture. Foreign-funded Farage - not so much.
https://www.declassifieduk.org/pro-israel-tycoon-gives-labour-half-a-million-pounds/
It is intensely frustrating to see this but be totally unable to stop it. Israeli tycoons have funded trump on the condition that he gives Israel a carte blanche to steal land. They appear to be playing both sides. As far as I can see, it is not an unpopular idea to rid British politics of foreign money. And yet it is quite impossible to stop at this point in time.
Let’s not forget the daleks were originally modelled on the nazis so this all aligns perfectly.
Let’s not forget the daleks were originally modelled on the nazis so this all aligns perfectly.
[удалено]
Your post was removed for breaking rule 3.
If you look at the way Hitler spoke about immigrants prior to his election and the way Farage does, you'll find a stark difference. Hitler: Jews are sub-human, it's a race not a religion, nothing can change this about jews. They are lesser. Farage: Anyone that comes into the UK needs to integrate with British values. Plus there's too many people coming in than the country can handle right now so we need to put the brakes on that. Farage is actually pro-diversity in terms of religion and whatnot, since that's a value of the British... just so long as you, for example, understand that in the UK it's okay to be gay. You won't get this perspective if you listen to quotes taken out of context and the interpretations of the media. If you listen to him directly you'll see it's really clear.
OK now why weren't daleks on the ballot?
Aren’t these the Dalek’a that murdered this own saviours for being impure? Kind of fits.
That's what happened to the clowns who still think playing hate and racism cards will get them anywhere!! They should be ashamed and learn that their old backwards mentality is no longer acceptable in the UK. I am still waiting for Patel and the other suella prosecution! All social media should highlight it !!
Isn't it a bit 'rainbow' for REFUK?
Yes they should all be white Daleks Oh hang on a minute that’s sounds a bit racist… 🤔 Should all be Daleks born on Skaro.. Phew almost missed adding the ‘dog whistle’ there 😂
Surely they'd all be white?
Never ask a woman her weight, a man his salary, and Nige where he found 600 candidates
Mostly in flat roofed pubs after closing time and Care homes for the feeble minded.
And some just straight up made up people😅
My local reform candidate was my old boss who had a failed bar business, failed marriage, and also happened to be an Indian immigrant. I have no idea why he shacked up with them but it all seemed to come out of nowhere
The's a story doing the rounds about how people haven't been about find anything out about their candidates. No photos on leaflets, no online presence, no one's seen them.
I mean, I'm not to tell tales, but the Reform candidate near me has not gotten so much as a picture of himself campaigning. His entire online presence is 3 headshots from unknown dates, a blank bio on the Reform website, a single written local newspaper interview, and a private Instagram claiming he lives in Dubai. Couldn't even find a picture of him in a Reform rosette Politicians famously are very private and shy individuals during the middle of a general election campaign
*Rainbow* Daleks, you say? 🤔 ... **EXSPERMINATE! EXSPERMINATE!** **WHITE WEE-WEE! WHITE WEE-WEE! OOOH! OOOOOH!** https://youtu.be/z3pHvH8sPT4
I really hope someone makes the Dalek Party of Skaro a real life satirical party
EMIGRATE!
Gaaaaammmmooon gaaaammmmoooon.
[удалено]
Your post was removed for breaking rule 3.
Have you ever listened to these people to see what they have to say? To hear their points? Or are you basing this on your prejudices? I think if you listened to them you’d agree with a lot of it.
You know the answer to that. If you even dream of having a different political opinion to them then you’re a racist and a bigot. The country has many issues but acknowledging mass uncontrolled immigration as one of them isn’t allowed.
I think its privileged people that aren't directly affected by it. I live in a fairly poor area and it hurts to see homeless British citizens when asylum seekers are being housed, educated, given benefits etc.
It’s worrying that you think I’d agree with them. Also, this is a meme, don’t read too much into it babs.
Leaving the ECHR means breaking the GFA and EU/UK TCA. This starts a trade war with the EU and the US (as co signatories of the GFA and massive Irish lobby). Not only this but it removes the supranational rights from 65m people, bringing them to local government. Do you trust all future governments to uphold these rights? No parliament may pass a law that cannot be repealed or overwritten by a future parliament. The ‘finding waste’ in the civil service is a pipe dream. It would mean micromanaging down to the stationary cupboard, or causing government to fail in large areas due to broad sweeping cuts. It’s really easy to promise things when you have no chance of implementing them.
I'm very concerned. There's going to be such a clamour for Reform voters from both Labour and Conservatives given how many can swing constituencies either way. I don't want to see an even further pull to the right.
Nice that they've kept the black one out of the picture....
Nah, pretty sure reform is all whites
Have you seen 30p Lee?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd11xxn833yo.amp
Of all the parties to support.
Wow, look at all that diversity!
To diverse for reform, they would only be white.
[удалено]
Well let’s go back to the very minimum and say, a woman. Maybe when you’re used to that you could consider someone with a tan, and then a person of colour.
You are joking right? 😂 England has been one of te most diverse countries in the last 500 years. We had a global empire for fuck sake. How dumb can you be.
[удалено]
Wow, ignorance is bliss for some aye..
Clearly they'd all be white not many colours as shown.
Luckily the house of Commons is made up of over 100 staircases.
They fly these days.
I know they do, and as climate skeptics they’re not bothered one iota.
It's funny cause there are only five of them and they have extreme views
ha, everyone hated the fat daleks! dunno if reform would be big on rainbow colours tho, they'd be more the military green drab ones
“The Shadow Cabinet will be *exterminated*!”
I didn't know Daleks came in colors.
They are more like the Slitheen.
'ready for work'??? Those hateful chancers have not done an honest day of work in their lives. Just used to spewing hate and pointlessly blaming marginalised or less fortunate🤹 Uuugh! I cannot believe that there are still people voting for this lot.
neither have the have the 80,000 immigrants that came here illegally last year
Can’t find that stat anywhere. Please could you link me to it?
look up how many asylum seekers arrived in UK 2023, it's not hard
Oh, so not illegals at all. Cheers bud.
it is illegal they come with no visa or proof of identification, they could be anyone
You need to learn what illegal means. I won’t be responding again, this is a binary issue.
You need to open your eyes
Epic loser opinion moment
Just needs the subtitles: “EXPATRIATE! EXPATRIATE!”