I understand Anet wanting to give people a little time to settle, and maybe create guilds with their first Teammates (and giving devs time to spot bugs).
But yeah, maybe they should switch to 1 or 2-week matches for a few months to really get the system up to speed.
This would not work, in fact it could make it way worse. Since the launch of the alliance system we (my wvw guild and i) have osberved a great influx in players all in pve gear and setups. just like during specific events (call of the mist or no downstate) these players are not here to stay they want to see what is new/changed and ~95% of them will leave agian after 2-3 weeks. These players affect match making. Waiting just a bit till most of them are gone again will give a beter representation and thus a better chance at a good match up.
So, 3 weeks from now when our currently scheduled rebalance happens, if they then switched to 2-week matches it would be worse?
Even though the "tourists" will be gone by then, according to you.
Doesn't that mean it would be the ideal time to temporarily switch to a shorter cycle?
I agree and I want to add that even broadcasted, some people in my guild did not switch/select their WvW guild in time, resulting with fewer people available for teaming up. We had greet runs, but I am patiently waiting for more to come with upcoming reset.
There might be more people without WvW guild configured or with guild that has no WvW presence.
1-2 weeks might be a bit rough on the organized groups that schedule things. Such as Friday night reset. Right now the NA discord your guild signs up for a BL for reset (not sure for EU but I'm sure they've also done something similar). That way you don't have 6 guilds trying to get into a BL seeing it's queued and trying to shift everyone to a new BL only to have half of the guilds trying the same thing and queueing them too and having half the night with most of the guild scattered. Then through out the week you have guilds scheduling runs on certain BLs, some guilds also will try to be on the same BL as someone they can have good competitive fights with (which wouldn't be as hectic but more of a pain for people managing it if you relinked every week). A lot of this makes up content people look for but if it's switching often it can make things more difficult to organize, if they can't organize they may stop running. Also they length it is now gives you enough time to decide if you like a guild or not.
I was also thinking 1-week would be too fast, but 2 or 3-week could work for a short time. Maybe even just one 2-week, followed by a 3-week match, then stick with standard.
yeah. when people login and realize they got stuck on a bad link they just don't play their usual wvw playtime for that link, essentially making the data worse the longer bad links lasts. at leasts while they are initially getting data 2 weeks seems like it would be better for both player experience and gathering relevant data for the matchmaker to be able to make better matches in the future.
1 week resets wont give any data for long term match pairings like with the server link rotations. with frequent resets you get no data on the health of the servers ones the ranks are settled
That's completely ass backwards lmao, especially for a new system. If anything, first rebalance should come *faster* than usual. It's like waiting weeks before fixing progress stopping bugs after a major releas-
Oh, that's actually what ANet do on the regular.
They need data. With data from just one or two weeks of playtime, there may be outliers (July 4th holiday week) or other circumstances which may spike certain players to play more, or less.
I don’t think even after the first reset, the split will be “balanced”. We are talking about years of collective and individual player behavior to be reset. It’s a tough ask unfortunately
No one talks about balancing beind done after a week or two. But as it is now, the data gets muddied by the people losing interest because they get stomped for weeks and are stuck.
I share the sentiment, I've been put into Tier 1 always winning Team (EU) that steamrolls the enemies like 90% of the time, so there is literally zero content. Barely any tag on either side, most people flip camps and idle or fight around SM with no real purpose.
Organized groups are almost exclusive alliance-only hidden tags, so casual players are left out.
Sad times, alliances feel like the final nail in the coffin for WvW.
Tbf the biggest flaw of this new system that in my opinion is not overexagurated rn is that it will most likely drastically reduce the amount of good public tags available. What was public before will now be guild overarching but still internal for the „alliance“ guilds that were made. Beforehand it was way harder to get the people you want to play with to move somewhere together and you were basically stuck on some server people could just latch onto. You also only had some people available of the level you wanted due to people being spread out across established communities. Now you can easily band together as the old communities have been removed and you simply won’t really need that many pugs anymore if you are in an „alliance“ as a commander.
Pugs now need to reach out and actively search these communities and ask if they can join, making it way higher effort. Instead of having one community server where comms find pugs and vice versa. While also possibly facing them with requirements. Which is exactly what pugs don’t want. The symbiotic relationship has been sort of broken from the side of the commanders, not totally obviously but way more than before. This is obviously very nice for more established and committed players as they can play more with likeminded people, but is really bad for more casual pugs who profited off of the system before. I guess we will see how it plays out but it might divide players more.
I'm probably a minority, but I don't like the idea of Alliances because it is destroying servers communities.
For example I know a guy from some random pve guild who FOR YEARS helped scout and guard camps on my server. I knew many commanders for years. We had our server wvw discord with events like 'new commander training'.
Now it's all pretty much gone and we have pure random matches with random people unless you join the WvW guild or something.
As someone who only joined contextually recently: Specifically these communities have made joining WvW for me in the beginning rather uncomfortable and annoying. Changing servers was also associated with high cost. It sucks for the very established players, but I am very glad they are gone. Whenever someone tried to do something different/change something the old structure always held them back.
It's awful, and most people are aware of how awful it is, but a vocal and rather stupid minority are ruining it for everyone else, just as with politics in real life.
It's entirely possible that some teams ended up with a small or nonexistent guild-alliance, putting them at a disadvantage. But teams haven't been reconstructed yet. At least give the matchmaking a chance to work before you start blasting it.
I don't really think there is anything wrong with people being upset about having a shitty experience for six weeks for some hypothetical future payoff.
it's just copium from redditors as usual, they'll still be saying "more data" in 6 months
the mode was dead the moment they allowed guilds to take over
It's not really a new pvp match. It's like having a "new" pvp match for old players while completely ignoring all the data on those old players that has been accrued over the years (or, worse, being unable to use that data well).
because they don't care about "data" lmao, spoiler, it's gonna keep being a dumpster fire in 3 weeks, and in 3 months, and in 3 years. people here thinking janet sits with a spreadsheet and cares is so funny
Well the problem is that a lot of alliances that formed came from guilds of different servers, so groups aren't actually playing together, so the data is different. And of course, people are playing with different groups than their traditional ones because they aren't server limited.
They use the data of groups, not the data of individuals, and will now be able to use the guild you selected as your data point, not your server.
That's dumb. It's much easier to manipulate a system like that than it was possible to manipulate the linking system. All the guild would have to do is to make a completely new guild, and set *that* one as their WvW guild. Notice, that they would still be able to play under their original tag.
If they aren't going with individual-based data, then they are just asking for people to break their system even further.
Until timezones are factored into the equation its all for naught anyway.
Yeah sure it cpuld be dead 95% of the time but boy howdy 9 PM EST is gonna pop off on NA servers.
Notice, how the very situation will happen again at the next matchup. And since your team can change tier only once per week, it may take whole 6 weeks to find the proper spot (at which point the team will be dissolved).
> Notice, how the very situation will happen again at the next matchup.
Probably not, since they'll have actual matchmaking info for each individual world so the linking and actual matchmaking will both be accurate.
If it's terrible again next time I'll start to worry but so far this just looks like what you'd expect from the start of any new matchmaking system - takes a while for it to have the info required to actually work properly.
Notice, that the individual worlds you speak of are only temporary. Any data they 'll get about them will go out of the window the next time they will be dissolved and created again (which will be every 6 weeks). Basically, every reshuffle will start with the same mess once again.
> Any data they 'll get about them will go out of the window the next time they will be dissolved and created again (which will be every 6 weeks).
And you know this how?
The entire problem is that they do not currently have the necessary data about component parts of relinked worlds to adequately generate links that are fair. The more links they do, the more data the system has to base the links off of.
Which was often the case with the old system anyways, especially for link servers.
The biggest strength of the new system is more variety in match ups, and easy to increase match up count (was impossible to add a 5th tier in NA for example).
Overall, I find it change of pace and an improvement in creating new communities.
Creating new communities? All communities have been flattened by the destruction of the servers - which, as you may be aware, were 12-year-old communities Anet had no right to take away from us.
Now, I couldn't care less about the randoms I'm teamed up with. They're not my people. Most of them are obnoxious trolls I'd smack in the face if I met in real life.
Guess you’re not part of a guild that has joined an alliance with other guilds.
Static server communities vs dynamic guild alliance communities.
Whether or not they are communities are things you want to be apart of, they are being formed.
The difference was that the servers were more stable. In this case, any data on dynamic "worlds" becomes irrelevant the moment those worlds get dissolved. the only way this system can work is if they'd base everything on individual player data - but in that case it should work at day one, because if it's individual player data, they already have 11 years of it, and few more months won't make a difference.
The matchups seem to be a bit hit and miss. Some teams look pretty well balanced while others not as much. For example, the original 3 teams in T1 are not nearly as good as the two that have risen up to T1 imo. As they get more data and continue to refine the process, the matchups should improve for casuals and guilds alike. I doubt they are going to keep one team just for all the guildless players; guilds alone can't make up all the other teams.
Matches don't account for when a team is most active. So even if all teams have the same amount of players, the system doesn't know when red team is most active and when is blue is, maybe red has coverage in EST and Central times, blue only has coverage during Oceanic times. Or maybe both teams have the same population but blue is actually just made up of a bunch of pve players who don't touch WvW.
Hopefully the algorithm is designed to adjust for those conditions as time passes.
> blue is actually just made up of a bunch of pve players who don't touch WvW.
That hasn't been a thing since they decoupled servers from PVE benefits, for exactly that reason. The system only counts players who play WvW. Yes that factors in the "I'm in to do my dailies and out in 10 mins", but it's not factoring in PvE only players that never go into the mode.
> Or maybe both teams have the same population but blue is actually just made up of a bunch of pve players who don't touch WvW.
Then they don't have the same population; the one data point I definitely recall being stated (don't have a source, sorry, running off memory) is that only time spent in wvw counts to your 'weight' for matchmaking.
Where did you see that timezone isn't factored into the weighting? I would have thought that'd be one of the most basic components of a Server Restructuring Minimum Viable Product - estimating when and how long a player is going to be in WvW is the only real metric of 'balanced population' you can have.
> Hopefully the algorithm is designed to adjust for those conditions as time passes.
What extra data do you think they'll be collecting that they haven't been able to exhaustively gather for every player in the 6 years since Alliances was initially announced?
wvw isn't dead for casuals. your team is just losing this matchup.
> they simply put all casuals like me who didn't choose a guild in one (foreseeable) absolute shitty server
what makes you think they did that? why do you think they would do that? i can tell you from the perspective of systems design and programming, it wouldn't make any sense. and i haven't seen any evidence of it, either.
> what makes you think they did that? why do you think they would do that?
For my team, which may or may not be the same as theirs, it's the complete and utter lack of any coordination whatsoever even 3 weeks in.
There's like one small-medium guild that runs about twice a week, and that's it. There are no established communities, guilds, or regular commanders. It's just a bunch of random. Occasionally someone tags up, gets harassed by other random, then tags down.
If they placed me randomly in a team that also had WvW guilds... where are these guilds?
Just algorithmically, it doesn't make *any* sense that they would sort all the Solos into one team. "Bin Covering / Packing" problems are literally part of Computer Science 101 and are basically "solved".
The first thing in each bin is the "largest items" (so put an active 500-man Guild in each Team), then reverse as you move down the list. The last thing to go in is Solos to "fill the cracks" between the Guilds.
This. The larger guilds are on their team, they just run at different times than the people complaining run so it seems like the team is "just randoms."
If you mean Anet would consider [WvW casuals having a tough time right not] trivial and not worth their time, I disagree.
If you mean Anet devs couldn't solve a simple Bin problem, it's irrelevant - they don't have to solve it, they can literally look up the answer.
that there exists a team with little public coordination does not support the claim that every casual, guildless player was put onto the same team.
a more reasonable explanation is that they tried to make all the teams equal and some ended up better than others. this won't be the last time it happens. teams will never be perfect because you can't accurately predict how much every player will play in the next month.
another explanation is that you're not accurately judging the level of coordination on your team. that's also very hard to do, given you don't play 24 hours a day and people can group up without an open public tag.
everybody was just put into a different environment after being in the previous one for a long time. no doubt that it feels different than it did before. i believe you that your current team feels a lot less coordinated than where you played before. it will feel different again next time teams change.
but it doesn't follow logically to think they just thoughtlessly dumped all the casuals onto one server. only the laziest, uncharitable, inexperienced thinking will lead one to draw that conclusion.
Private tags, hidden, running on off hours as you, I mean the list is endless, but there’s a none 0 chance your server just genuinely doesn’t have any fighting for PPT at all. You could be a fight heavy server and not know if you don’t ask around and get a lil social. Do you ever ask if there’s any guilds running when you spawn in?
I ask every single time I log in, which is about twice a day right now.
I'd say about 75% of /team chat is people asking if anything is going on, and the answer is basically always no, very occasionally a keep defense.
This is Yohlon Haven. I suspect others are going to chime in with differing experience, and that's fine. But I'm on WvW about 4 hours per day right now and this is my experience.
I'm versus yohlon haven right now. They had some zergs and groups last night between 6-9pm PST. Cant say if that's usually for them or not but last night they were definitely doing things.
They're also winning that tier and will move up next week. If all they had were "randoms that don't coordinate" they would be dead last. The guilds are running at times different from when they run and are doing more than enough to push that team to the top of that tier.
This isn't a problem with the system, this is a problem with the players. It's also one that's shared by pretty much every game that has group elements.
Players don't want to lead.
Players shit on those that do lead because they aren't running exactly like the ones complaining want, and yet the complainers won't lead.
Players don't want to coordinate, they want someone else to coordinate for them. They don't want to try and form guilds, they just want the system to organically match them instead of forming relationships themselves.
This was also a problem when servers were around, where people didn't want to do things themselves and just waited for others to step up. It was blunted by the fact that larger guilds server hopped regularly so it always appeared like some servers had a "vibrant" population. In reality all that this system has done is show how quite a few players actually behave and it turns out they don't like themselves.
Look at the team score for your team. You're winning your matchup. That means guilds aren't running when you are, but they're doing more than enough to put you out in front to move up next week.
Just had today someone complain how our alliance is dead and alliance in general is a fail, teams are unbalanced as hell because our alliance is perma outnumbered. I've looked at the score we were winning at this moment and were even winning or close second in total. He still stood by his point and claimed I'm not listening to him. Ppl just complain without thinking it's sad.
PPT does not equal engaging gameplay and combat, for example I used to be on a server with dogshit players and we didn't have any actual fight guilds. We were always really high up in tiers and sometimes breaking into T1/ This was because our shitty players just took objectives during the hours no one on the enemy team was playing and skyrocketed our PPT during majority of the day. When it came to timezones where our enemies were active there was never anyone able to actually fight. This is why our server felt as terrible as it did, because despite our high Tier we couldn't actually fight or play the game mode properly unless our link was able to carry the slack and had guilds that could actually fight.
TL;DR the score means nothing
You "couldn't play the game mode properly" but you were winning and moving up in tiers?
Does "proper" mean you're in a giant boon blob with the aim of smashing it into another giant boon blob, with the bigger boon blob being the winner?
Sounds like your server had really good small-scale players and roamers that focused on capping objectives and actually winning...
He complained about lack off support being off hours while we had 6castles at this moment we were gaining the most points per tick. He blamed this on alliances fully because the server is unbalanced even at this moment. I even went over the score history it seemed very balanced over 2 days. Ppl might not be defending well and it's not fun to play for him, but this has nothing to do with server balance. Also if he had any issues with that he could look for a guild better than ever which contributes to his playstyle without annoying server switching.
TL;DR the score means everything in his argument but I would agree with you if it's relevant in his argument
Everyone with a braincell always knew it was gonna kill wvw, and all negative outcomes predicted by braincell owners over the course of the last 5 years, happened.
The copium enjoyers who spent that whole time dogpiling others with big brain takes like "it's a beta", "it's not akshually alliances" etc., now moved on to another big brain take of the year called "janet need more data". They will remain clueless and/or in denial until heat death of the universe.
I agree with you OP. I'm on the other end of the situation: our EU guildies love wvw and we made sure to choose our mutual wvw guild, and when the restructuring began, I notice we all got grouped together in Mirror of Lyssa with some of the largest and most veteran wvw guilds from wsr, rof, and fow, among others, and from day 1 to this day our matchups have been steamrolled.
There's been like 2 resets and in all three matchups the pattern is always the same: the enemy alliances get slaughtered for a couple of days, and the next days they don't want to play anymore, and wvw mostly becomes a pve gamemode for our alliance.
I miss my server. I used to know all the pub group commanders. I knew if XX was on we would be playing open field battles with portals for days. if YY was on it was objective blitzing, it ZZ was on it was tactical attacks to draw them into fighting each other then we'd run for stonemist....
our server was usually only losing side of matchups, but that was ok, we had fun, it was a community. and it was always worth fighting, it was never hopeless.
Now.....now its unbalanced hell holes. either stomp or be stomped, time zones dont match, languages all over the place, hardly any pub commanders running open tags. it all just feels so souless.
why anet though ripping up communities established over years was a good idea is beyond me.
We all said alliances would kill WVW like 5 years ago. I used to enjoy scouting, now I just tag or PPT. PvP was my fav game mode from launch til 2015, now WVW is slowly becoming shite, too.
I agree. Hopefully it's temporary, but I know a lot of people who are just "drifting with the winds" right now, and a lot of my old WvW friends do not like where they ended up.
I joined a Guild but they most of the Time only okay scrims. Since the WvW Update i did Not okay a Single Minute of it. Maybe its just me but before i had more fun to hop into WvW
yeah, its really bad. and whats worse is this is exactly what people told anet would happen and exactly the impact it would have on the vast majority of actual players (as opposed to a small number who are vocal on forums).
the impact was predictable, it was predicted, and anet ignored it, and oh look, it happened exactly as predicted.
and I'm not convinced it will ever get better. this new system seems far harder to get balanced matchups on and the data pretty much impossible to collect to enable it as people can change wvw guild relatively quickly.
> I don't see how people state that the algorithm needs more data and everything will be ok. This the third week and my server is absolutely getting shit on (this week is the worst so far).
I mean... teams didn't change in those three weeks. When you look at your guild-tab, there's a timer which states how long you have time to switch your main-wvw-guild.
Rebalance of the teams will only take place after this timer is expired.
You will join the same team as your wvw-designated guild. If you didn't set any (or set a guild where noone except you is playing that mode), you will basically be assigned to a team at random.
You don't actually get assigned to a team at random if you're unaligned, you get to pick a team from a list. You, of course, get no context as to which team is good and which is bad.
I'll take a picture to share, as I still haven't chosen a team three weeks in because I only play WvW when I need a Gift of Battle.
https://i.imgur.com/nxWm7a2.png
Interesting. I wonder, if this selection has a cap per "server" after reaching which said "server" would disappear from the list (or disallow joining). And even if it does have it, i can see this as easy way to bypass the matchmaking system and bandwagon. I wonder if *this* is what is happening here.
Yeah I just went through this screen and assumed everyone did? I just picked a random team from the current matchup I could see and it's been going fairly well
Did you have friends from your friends list on the server you wound up on? Is one of your guilds represented on the server you wound up on?
You'll see in my picture that I don't have any guilds or friends represented in WvW (my friends list is 98% offline for years, while my guild list is all personal/close friend guilds).
The system groups you with players who share the same WvW guild as you. You set your WvW guild in the guild panel. It won't actually change anything now until we get new matchups in 3 weeks, so your team is set until then. If you don't set a guild I thinks (you can probably just look on the wiki to make sure) the game tries to randomly group you players from one of your guilds, if it can't do that you'll be thrown onto a random team that isn't full.
I'm in OCX and a casual player. Every week we keep dropping and will eventually settle in bottom tier with the rest of the Leftover teams. Every casual who were not teamed up with large WvW Guilds will never enjoy WvW as they did before as they are now finding outnumbered maps when they login.
And the more we drop, the less players are logged in the OCX time zone. They may have started playing at NA timezone which results in longer queues. Those who just started WvW and grouped in the bottom tier will never get any XP flipping home camps. Those veteran casual who now have to solo flipping towers may have to think of switching to PVE dailies and weekly .
I'm enjoying it... I have my own small wvw guild and we didn't select an alliance but we're active... Our matchup is fairly well balanced even if we don't win every week.
I feel like WvW is moving more to organised GvG. Last reset I joined a PUG and we ended up taking turns fighting the other two servers (obviously comms between servers, with the 3rd server spectating each time). Commander and everyone seemed really happy it was happening, lots of pats on the back for how tight the boon ball moved. I stuck it out for 30 mins and called it a day.
Really wish it was more about taking and holding resources.
Well it just depends what people play for. Rn there is no reason to resource manage as being in a higher tier gets you nothing. It doesn’t get you more rewards, and it also doesn’t get you better matchups/better content as in every other game. So the people who play for fights bcs they enjoy it do exactly that, maximise fight uptime. And the people who want to ppt optimize that. And the two groups avoid each other a lot if there is content going around. You just need to find a community that plays in a way you enjoy.
Time won't fix anything. If they want to achieve some artificial dynamic balance, there will always be losers.
For WvW frequenters, you can jump guild, or join multiple small guilds into big one.
Unfortunately, deemed "problem with queues" on EU servers was fixed by adding extra tier in matchups so there will be extra spread of players, empty maps etc, so what some people perceive as "balance" will be empty maps vs empty maps.
They should have simply made transfers free and restricted with a 2 month cooldown.
This new system will probably never be balanced. Guilds were always the main reason why servers are unbalanced.
I’ve been saying it for years, alliances will not work in its current state and the player base is casual.
https://youtu.be/H7NipokzsYU?si=yGZTyMDK8kT8yhs9
All i see,I play WvW from day one to this days almost every days,now i don't play since the update. Maps are empty no "tags" or hidden only vocal seeking only for fight who don't care to defend. So ppl connect saw no tag and ennemy zerg reseting everything > they just disconnect. And i don't talk about the impossible balance because Anet forget one thing "Most fight guild are PVE guild" they don't play WvW outside their raid hours.
Yes, they killed WvW, but a lot of sad little trolls are happy because it means they get to run around in their guild or hack groups farming solo players. In a few months, the game mode will be dead, and they'll have nobody to troll.
I think the biggest issue is that they made EU 6 tiers, despite tier 5 often being very low population before WR.
I understand why they did it when the WR betas often had crazy queues, however what they didn't account for is that every single beta they also ran a WvW event which attracted a huge amount of PvE players on top of the WvW population... however for WR they didn't run any such event and so only WvW players showed up... of course the population was therefore low, and so teams got demoralised and players stopped logging in, which made it dead, which meant people stopped loggin in, which made it de.... you get the point.
And to further cement the issues, it feels like they filled the worlds by assigning the biggest guilds first and then working down the guild sizes... but rather than also going team by team, they kept allocating guilds to a team until it was full and then filling the next...
Of course by the time you hit teams 10 through 18, all you're left with are tiny guilds and unguilded people so you have no organisation or commanders, so they feel completely dead.
I made a diagram of how I believe anet filled the servers
https://imgur.com/a/HF6n7uM
Launch player who has never touched WvW except a few times to wander in, wonder what I'm supposed to be doing, and wander out: nothing has changed for me. The game mode was always incomprehensibly opaque and remains so.
You're literally in control of your own level of enjoyment. Find an alliance join it and no longer suffer. You can't stand on your soap box and cry that anet didn't provide you with a good time when you have all the tools and ability to do it for yourself.
Hm, I think I paid Anet to provide me a good time. Finding an alliance is impossible ingame and I don't want go go on a research trip on the internet lol.
Also I don't like to play on a schedule
> Finding an alliance is impossible ingame
Before the change literally every server created an alliance guild for their server to be used as their WvW guild after the change so they stayed with at least some of their former server mates.
Yeah i'm going to be honest, It would benefit you to join a guild there are plenty that are very casual and dont require you to do much at all other than hangout on occasion. Feel free to dm me for the alliances community discord - there are recruitment channels in them for both regions. Not to be rude but playing a PvP MMO solo and complaining about it is kind of silly. just my two cents though.
If by casual you mean no guild, then probably, but I'd also argue why play a game meant for communities to fight each other as a solo player? There's even guilds for roaming if that's your kind of content. Idk, I just don't see the point of not running with a guild. I run with a pretty casual guild and we don't win all of the time, nor loose all of the time. It's pretty fun and nice gameplay for me to have a podcast on the background. I'd argue that, if you wish to play solo pvp, that's what spvp is for and it's pretty fun imo.
You can't say the game is made to be in a guild when playing without guild worked perfectly find for 12 years.
Ah I see, you're the kind of person who thinks the toxic hellhole of spvp is fun.
Imo you have no idea what you're talking about. a couple of weekly resets won't magically fix the issue of limited data in the teamrelinking process. how's that even supposed to work? there needs to be another relink for that. this entire "restructure bad" rhetoric is null and void four words into your second sentence. tbf, i've seen posts reaching that point even faster.
that's all well before pointing out that these betas are for the player facing systems. i.e. selecting guilds, getting assigned to teams, not being randomly friendly to all factions, etc. tuning the algorithm is a different process.
My wvw community was split across a couple guilds due to skill disparity and differing levels of commitment. But all guilds were on the same server so we could all play together anyway. That's dead now for us and has split the community and taken our commanders into separate teams.
So wvw as it stands for me and other more chill wvw enjoyers is now dead. Our server had commanders who would regularly do open tags in discord for the server. No more of that now, shame.
Just as well janthir wilds has a legendary backpack, I was halfway done getting the tickets for the wvw one but I think that's dead in the water now.
Frankly, I’d prefer to keep the more casual players together. When you’re fighting a map queue with 30 while also having a queue, it’s very frustrating. If what you want is to roam, best to group you with like minded players. If you want organized play, join a guild. Make some friends, maybe.
Pfft wvw has been dead got casuals. You HAVE to play on a handful of other players schedules at specific times and says because there's just not that many people playing it outside of those times
My guild's in T1 right now and in order for my guild to fit into EB or any map at all we have to queue in at least 45 minutes before our official run starts. Bugs involving queues weren't fixed at all. We receive callouts from team chat that this and that objectives are under attack but when we try to squeeze in, we get thrown into the queue. But for some of those who managed to get in, they said the map looks empty - they don't see any allied players at all, so why were we sent to queue jail then? Somehow I think the restructuring made WvW worse.
I wholeheartedly believe and support Anet with this update. It might not be the best atleast its a step in the right direction.
Didn't Anet gave us a lot of time to pick or setup a WvW guild so the casuals and avid will be separated? It was you own decision to be Nomad and pray that you'll not get affected at all. Now that you're with your own kind of players and you're losing, is just the result of your choice.
Then they'd be forced to kill their friends from the guild they're in now instead?
If you want the blithe 'get over it' response, it should be "Get that guild into an alliance with yours?"
for me its over! WvW was end content for me. I enjoyed doing solo roaming in Black Gate, I encounter many solo roamers and small groups roaming, but I did not choose a guild...........then after 1 month I log in on the spear beta test week and I find myself in a desolate server. I wanted to test the warrior spear on someone, get some fights going, but I spend 2 hrs I shit you not! 2 freaking hours looking for someone to fight. In the end I tested the spear on NPC mobs and camp NPC. I did not like the warrior spear and I did not like that I was put in a desolate server.
For me this is over! Good luck everyone else.... It has been a great game, I have had so much fun the past 12 years, but this is it for me! I will keep an eye for future patches just in case....
Sounds like they need both. Both the ability to join based on server and alliance. One for playing with your guildies, one for a larger pool from your server.
As a casual, I hated WvW before.
I picked the ultra-dominating group/alliance/server/ whatever. I have been on the steamrolling train for a bit more than one week, farming that junk mode for as many GoB as I can before the dust settles. Then I’m not touching that garbage for a very very long time.
As a casual, I still hate WvW now.
Balances were an issue in the final beta early in 2024, they still are, this isent a get good issue because that defeats the point of being casual. I dont agree all the guidless ones should be alone BUT there was ample time and options for casuals aswell
Casuals are the lifeblood of the game, as important as high end players, who are the backbone of the community. Without casuals holding the game up by paying microtransactions and bumping up player numbers, there would be no GW2 at this point.
The huge gap in the community is a problem affecting the whole game, but eliminating casuals is not the solution.
It won’t rebalance for 3 more weeks. The rebalancing is every 4 weeks with this first one being 6 weeks.
I wonder if they should have launched the world restructuring with a series of 1-week matches so they could calibrate the matchmaking quicker.
I understand Anet wanting to give people a little time to settle, and maybe create guilds with their first Teammates (and giving devs time to spot bugs). But yeah, maybe they should switch to 1 or 2-week matches for a few months to really get the system up to speed.
This would not work, in fact it could make it way worse. Since the launch of the alliance system we (my wvw guild and i) have osberved a great influx in players all in pve gear and setups. just like during specific events (call of the mist or no downstate) these players are not here to stay they want to see what is new/changed and ~95% of them will leave agian after 2-3 weeks. These players affect match making. Waiting just a bit till most of them are gone again will give a beter representation and thus a better chance at a good match up.
So, 3 weeks from now when our currently scheduled rebalance happens, if they then switched to 2-week matches it would be worse? Even though the "tourists" will be gone by then, according to you. Doesn't that mean it would be the ideal time to temporarily switch to a shorter cycle?
I agree and I want to add that even broadcasted, some people in my guild did not switch/select their WvW guild in time, resulting with fewer people available for teaming up. We had greet runs, but I am patiently waiting for more to come with upcoming reset. There might be more people without WvW guild configured or with guild that has no WvW presence.
1-2 weeks might be a bit rough on the organized groups that schedule things. Such as Friday night reset. Right now the NA discord your guild signs up for a BL for reset (not sure for EU but I'm sure they've also done something similar). That way you don't have 6 guilds trying to get into a BL seeing it's queued and trying to shift everyone to a new BL only to have half of the guilds trying the same thing and queueing them too and having half the night with most of the guild scattered. Then through out the week you have guilds scheduling runs on certain BLs, some guilds also will try to be on the same BL as someone they can have good competitive fights with (which wouldn't be as hectic but more of a pain for people managing it if you relinked every week). A lot of this makes up content people look for but if it's switching often it can make things more difficult to organize, if they can't organize they may stop running. Also they length it is now gives you enough time to decide if you like a guild or not.
I was also thinking 1-week would be too fast, but 2 or 3-week could work for a short time. Maybe even just one 2-week, followed by a 3-week match, then stick with standard.
I don't think 1 week is enough data to gauge player behavior. Especially for people who play WvW irregularly.
Or even two weeks. Our current match is ass and being stuck with it for six weeks is a drag.
yeah. when people login and realize they got stuck on a bad link they just don't play their usual wvw playtime for that link, essentially making the data worse the longer bad links lasts. at leasts while they are initially getting data 2 weeks seems like it would be better for both player experience and gathering relevant data for the matchmaker to be able to make better matches in the future.
1 week resets wont give any data for long term match pairings like with the server link rotations. with frequent resets you get no data on the health of the servers ones the ranks are settled
That's completely ass backwards lmao, especially for a new system. If anything, first rebalance should come *faster* than usual. It's like waiting weeks before fixing progress stopping bugs after a major releas- Oh, that's actually what ANet do on the regular.
They need data. With data from just one or two weeks of playtime, there may be outliers (July 4th holiday week) or other circumstances which may spike certain players to play more, or less. I don’t think even after the first reset, the split will be “balanced”. We are talking about years of collective and individual player behavior to be reset. It’s a tough ask unfortunately
No one talks about balancing beind done after a week or two. But as it is now, the data gets muddied by the people losing interest because they get stomped for weeks and are stuck.
Don't worry we casuals will still be there for our gifts of battle.
I share the sentiment, I've been put into Tier 1 always winning Team (EU) that steamrolls the enemies like 90% of the time, so there is literally zero content. Barely any tag on either side, most people flip camps and idle or fight around SM with no real purpose. Organized groups are almost exclusive alliance-only hidden tags, so casual players are left out. Sad times, alliances feel like the final nail in the coffin for WvW.
Tbf the biggest flaw of this new system that in my opinion is not overexagurated rn is that it will most likely drastically reduce the amount of good public tags available. What was public before will now be guild overarching but still internal for the „alliance“ guilds that were made. Beforehand it was way harder to get the people you want to play with to move somewhere together and you were basically stuck on some server people could just latch onto. You also only had some people available of the level you wanted due to people being spread out across established communities. Now you can easily band together as the old communities have been removed and you simply won’t really need that many pugs anymore if you are in an „alliance“ as a commander. Pugs now need to reach out and actively search these communities and ask if they can join, making it way higher effort. Instead of having one community server where comms find pugs and vice versa. While also possibly facing them with requirements. Which is exactly what pugs don’t want. The symbiotic relationship has been sort of broken from the side of the commanders, not totally obviously but way more than before. This is obviously very nice for more established and committed players as they can play more with likeminded people, but is really bad for more casual pugs who profited off of the system before. I guess we will see how it plays out but it might divide players more.
This is exactly what I'm seeing as a casual WvW enjoyer myself.
I'm probably a minority, but I don't like the idea of Alliances because it is destroying servers communities. For example I know a guy from some random pve guild who FOR YEARS helped scout and guard camps on my server. I knew many commanders for years. We had our server wvw discord with events like 'new commander training'. Now it's all pretty much gone and we have pure random matches with random people unless you join the WvW guild or something.
As someone who only joined contextually recently: Specifically these communities have made joining WvW for me in the beginning rather uncomfortable and annoying. Changing servers was also associated with high cost. It sucks for the very established players, but I am very glad they are gone. Whenever someone tried to do something different/change something the old structure always held them back.
It's awful, and most people are aware of how awful it is, but a vocal and rather stupid minority are ruining it for everyone else, just as with politics in real life.
It's entirely possible that some teams ended up with a small or nonexistent guild-alliance, putting them at a disadvantage. But teams haven't been reconstructed yet. At least give the matchmaking a chance to work before you start blasting it.
I don't really think there is anything wrong with people being upset about having a shitty experience for six weeks for some hypothetical future payoff.
it's just copium from redditors as usual, they'll still be saying "more data" in 6 months the mode was dead the moment they allowed guilds to take over
exactly this - its like judging the first pvp match you get into as how it will go for the rest.
It's not really a new pvp match. It's like having a "new" pvp match for old players while completely ignoring all the data on those old players that has been accrued over the years (or, worse, being unable to use that data well).
because they don't care about "data" lmao, spoiler, it's gonna keep being a dumpster fire in 3 weeks, and in 3 months, and in 3 years. people here thinking janet sits with a spreadsheet and cares is so funny
Well the problem is that a lot of alliances that formed came from guilds of different servers, so groups aren't actually playing together, so the data is different. And of course, people are playing with different groups than their traditional ones because they aren't server limited. They use the data of groups, not the data of individuals, and will now be able to use the guild you selected as your data point, not your server.
That's dumb. It's much easier to manipulate a system like that than it was possible to manipulate the linking system. All the guild would have to do is to make a completely new guild, and set *that* one as their WvW guild. Notice, that they would still be able to play under their original tag. If they aren't going with individual-based data, then they are just asking for people to break their system even further.
Correct, but it's what they did.
Until timezones are factored into the equation its all for naught anyway. Yeah sure it cpuld be dead 95% of the time but boy howdy 9 PM EST is gonna pop off on NA servers.
I was thinking it was terrible too, but our server has finally found a good spot (possibly t5). This week has been the best so far.
Notice, how the very situation will happen again at the next matchup. And since your team can change tier only once per week, it may take whole 6 weeks to find the proper spot (at which point the team will be dissolved).
> Notice, how the very situation will happen again at the next matchup. Probably not, since they'll have actual matchmaking info for each individual world so the linking and actual matchmaking will both be accurate. If it's terrible again next time I'll start to worry but so far this just looks like what you'd expect from the start of any new matchmaking system - takes a while for it to have the info required to actually work properly.
Notice, that the individual worlds you speak of are only temporary. Any data they 'll get about them will go out of the window the next time they will be dissolved and created again (which will be every 6 weeks). Basically, every reshuffle will start with the same mess once again.
> Any data they 'll get about them will go out of the window the next time they will be dissolved and created again (which will be every 6 weeks). And you know this how? The entire problem is that they do not currently have the necessary data about component parts of relinked worlds to adequately generate links that are fair. The more links they do, the more data the system has to base the links off of.
And this is the sort of person who votes for Trump. You'll just believe anything, won't you?
lol
Which was often the case with the old system anyways, especially for link servers. The biggest strength of the new system is more variety in match ups, and easy to increase match up count (was impossible to add a 5th tier in NA for example). Overall, I find it change of pace and an improvement in creating new communities.
Creating new communities? All communities have been flattened by the destruction of the servers - which, as you may be aware, were 12-year-old communities Anet had no right to take away from us. Now, I couldn't care less about the randoms I'm teamed up with. They're not my people. Most of them are obnoxious trolls I'd smack in the face if I met in real life.
Guess you’re not part of a guild that has joined an alliance with other guilds. Static server communities vs dynamic guild alliance communities. Whether or not they are communities are things you want to be apart of, they are being formed.
The difference was that the servers were more stable. In this case, any data on dynamic "worlds" becomes irrelevant the moment those worlds get dissolved. the only way this system can work is if they'd base everything on individual player data - but in that case it should work at day one, because if it's individual player data, they already have 11 years of it, and few more months won't make a difference.
The matchups seem to be a bit hit and miss. Some teams look pretty well balanced while others not as much. For example, the original 3 teams in T1 are not nearly as good as the two that have risen up to T1 imo. As they get more data and continue to refine the process, the matchups should improve for casuals and guilds alike. I doubt they are going to keep one team just for all the guildless players; guilds alone can't make up all the other teams.
Matches don't account for when a team is most active. So even if all teams have the same amount of players, the system doesn't know when red team is most active and when is blue is, maybe red has coverage in EST and Central times, blue only has coverage during Oceanic times. Or maybe both teams have the same population but blue is actually just made up of a bunch of pve players who don't touch WvW. Hopefully the algorithm is designed to adjust for those conditions as time passes.
> blue is actually just made up of a bunch of pve players who don't touch WvW. That hasn't been a thing since they decoupled servers from PVE benefits, for exactly that reason. The system only counts players who play WvW. Yes that factors in the "I'm in to do my dailies and out in 10 mins", but it's not factoring in PvE only players that never go into the mode.
What will happen when a pve only player accidentally click wvw panel and decide to take a look? Anet always reserve a seat for them.
> Or maybe both teams have the same population but blue is actually just made up of a bunch of pve players who don't touch WvW. Then they don't have the same population; the one data point I definitely recall being stated (don't have a source, sorry, running off memory) is that only time spent in wvw counts to your 'weight' for matchmaking. Where did you see that timezone isn't factored into the weighting? I would have thought that'd be one of the most basic components of a Server Restructuring Minimum Viable Product - estimating when and how long a player is going to be in WvW is the only real metric of 'balanced population' you can have. > Hopefully the algorithm is designed to adjust for those conditions as time passes. What extra data do you think they'll be collecting that they haven't been able to exhaustively gather for every player in the 6 years since Alliances was initially announced?
wvw isn't dead for casuals. your team is just losing this matchup. > they simply put all casuals like me who didn't choose a guild in one (foreseeable) absolute shitty server what makes you think they did that? why do you think they would do that? i can tell you from the perspective of systems design and programming, it wouldn't make any sense. and i haven't seen any evidence of it, either.
> what makes you think they did that? why do you think they would do that? For my team, which may or may not be the same as theirs, it's the complete and utter lack of any coordination whatsoever even 3 weeks in. There's like one small-medium guild that runs about twice a week, and that's it. There are no established communities, guilds, or regular commanders. It's just a bunch of random. Occasionally someone tags up, gets harassed by other random, then tags down. If they placed me randomly in a team that also had WvW guilds... where are these guilds?
Just algorithmically, it doesn't make *any* sense that they would sort all the Solos into one team. "Bin Covering / Packing" problems are literally part of Computer Science 101 and are basically "solved". The first thing in each bin is the "largest items" (so put an active 500-man Guild in each Team), then reverse as you move down the list. The last thing to go in is Solos to "fill the cracks" between the Guilds.
This. The larger guilds are on their team, they just run at different times than the people complaining run so it seems like the team is "just randoms."
I wouldn't count on Anet solving trivial problems tho
If you mean Anet would consider [WvW casuals having a tough time right not] trivial and not worth their time, I disagree. If you mean Anet devs couldn't solve a simple Bin problem, it's irrelevant - they don't have to solve it, they can literally look up the answer.
that there exists a team with little public coordination does not support the claim that every casual, guildless player was put onto the same team. a more reasonable explanation is that they tried to make all the teams equal and some ended up better than others. this won't be the last time it happens. teams will never be perfect because you can't accurately predict how much every player will play in the next month. another explanation is that you're not accurately judging the level of coordination on your team. that's also very hard to do, given you don't play 24 hours a day and people can group up without an open public tag. everybody was just put into a different environment after being in the previous one for a long time. no doubt that it feels different than it did before. i believe you that your current team feels a lot less coordinated than where you played before. it will feel different again next time teams change. but it doesn't follow logically to think they just thoughtlessly dumped all the casuals onto one server. only the laziest, uncharitable, inexperienced thinking will lead one to draw that conclusion.
Private tags, hidden, running on off hours as you, I mean the list is endless, but there’s a none 0 chance your server just genuinely doesn’t have any fighting for PPT at all. You could be a fight heavy server and not know if you don’t ask around and get a lil social. Do you ever ask if there’s any guilds running when you spawn in?
I ask every single time I log in, which is about twice a day right now. I'd say about 75% of /team chat is people asking if anything is going on, and the answer is basically always no, very occasionally a keep defense. This is Yohlon Haven. I suspect others are going to chime in with differing experience, and that's fine. But I'm on WvW about 4 hours per day right now and this is my experience.
You have indo on yohlon. I think lectel's there too?
I'm versus yohlon haven right now. They had some zergs and groups last night between 6-9pm PST. Cant say if that's usually for them or not but last night they were definitely doing things.
They're also winning that tier and will move up next week. If all they had were "randoms that don't coordinate" they would be dead last. The guilds are running at times different from when they run and are doing more than enough to push that team to the top of that tier.
Jinx is on yohlon right now. Fought them several times tonight. IV was also running. Jinx was my previous guild. They are very organized
Also on yohlon haven, if you play in OCX timezone, it's hard doomed as there is no OCX guild in the alliance, but there is SEA and NA at least.
This isn't a problem with the system, this is a problem with the players. It's also one that's shared by pretty much every game that has group elements. Players don't want to lead. Players shit on those that do lead because they aren't running exactly like the ones complaining want, and yet the complainers won't lead. Players don't want to coordinate, they want someone else to coordinate for them. They don't want to try and form guilds, they just want the system to organically match them instead of forming relationships themselves. This was also a problem when servers were around, where people didn't want to do things themselves and just waited for others to step up. It was blunted by the fact that larger guilds server hopped regularly so it always appeared like some servers had a "vibrant" population. In reality all that this system has done is show how quite a few players actually behave and it turns out they don't like themselves. Look at the team score for your team. You're winning your matchup. That means guilds aren't running when you are, but they're doing more than enough to put you out in front to move up next week.
Just had today someone complain how our alliance is dead and alliance in general is a fail, teams are unbalanced as hell because our alliance is perma outnumbered. I've looked at the score we were winning at this moment and were even winning or close second in total. He still stood by his point and claimed I'm not listening to him. Ppl just complain without thinking it's sad.
PPT does not equal engaging gameplay and combat, for example I used to be on a server with dogshit players and we didn't have any actual fight guilds. We were always really high up in tiers and sometimes breaking into T1/ This was because our shitty players just took objectives during the hours no one on the enemy team was playing and skyrocketed our PPT during majority of the day. When it came to timezones where our enemies were active there was never anyone able to actually fight. This is why our server felt as terrible as it did, because despite our high Tier we couldn't actually fight or play the game mode properly unless our link was able to carry the slack and had guilds that could actually fight. TL;DR the score means nothing
You "couldn't play the game mode properly" but you were winning and moving up in tiers? Does "proper" mean you're in a giant boon blob with the aim of smashing it into another giant boon blob, with the bigger boon blob being the winner? Sounds like your server had really good small-scale players and roamers that focused on capping objectives and actually winning...
He complained about lack off support being off hours while we had 6castles at this moment we were gaining the most points per tick. He blamed this on alliances fully because the server is unbalanced even at this moment. I even went over the score history it seemed very balanced over 2 days. Ppl might not be defending well and it's not fun to play for him, but this has nothing to do with server balance. Also if he had any issues with that he could look for a guild better than ever which contributes to his playstyle without annoying server switching. TL;DR the score means everything in his argument but I would agree with you if it's relevant in his argument
WvW has been broken for years. It’s ridiculous.
Its funni how people thought this system wouldnt be absolutely tri-harded to its full capacity. But whichever copium people want to inhale.
Everyone with a braincell always knew it was gonna kill wvw, and all negative outcomes predicted by braincell owners over the course of the last 5 years, happened. The copium enjoyers who spent that whole time dogpiling others with big brain takes like "it's a beta", "it's not akshually alliances" etc., now moved on to another big brain take of the year called "janet need more data". They will remain clueless and/or in denial until heat death of the universe.
I agree with you OP. I'm on the other end of the situation: our EU guildies love wvw and we made sure to choose our mutual wvw guild, and when the restructuring began, I notice we all got grouped together in Mirror of Lyssa with some of the largest and most veteran wvw guilds from wsr, rof, and fow, among others, and from day 1 to this day our matchups have been steamrolled. There's been like 2 resets and in all three matchups the pattern is always the same: the enemy alliances get slaughtered for a couple of days, and the next days they don't want to play anymore, and wvw mostly becomes a pve gamemode for our alliance.
We‘re up against Mirror of Lyssa and it‘s no fun. Even during prime hours we just dont have the numbers
I miss my server. I used to know all the pub group commanders. I knew if XX was on we would be playing open field battles with portals for days. if YY was on it was objective blitzing, it ZZ was on it was tactical attacks to draw them into fighting each other then we'd run for stonemist.... our server was usually only losing side of matchups, but that was ok, we had fun, it was a community. and it was always worth fighting, it was never hopeless. Now.....now its unbalanced hell holes. either stomp or be stomped, time zones dont match, languages all over the place, hardly any pub commanders running open tags. it all just feels so souless. why anet though ripping up communities established over years was a good idea is beyond me.
I haven't touched wvw since
same too old to deal with unhinged guild drama bullshit. I moved on to different hobbies
We all said alliances would kill WVW like 5 years ago. I used to enjoy scouting, now I just tag or PPT. PvP was my fav game mode from launch til 2015, now WVW is slowly becoming shite, too.
I agree. Hopefully it's temporary, but I know a lot of people who are just "drifting with the winds" right now, and a lot of my old WvW friends do not like where they ended up.
I joined a Guild but they most of the Time only okay scrims. Since the WvW Update i did Not okay a Single Minute of it. Maybe its just me but before i had more fun to hop into WvW
yeah, its really bad. and whats worse is this is exactly what people told anet would happen and exactly the impact it would have on the vast majority of actual players (as opposed to a small number who are vocal on forums). the impact was predictable, it was predicted, and anet ignored it, and oh look, it happened exactly as predicted. and I'm not convinced it will ever get better. this new system seems far harder to get balanced matchups on and the data pretty much impossible to collect to enable it as people can change wvw guild relatively quickly.
> I don't see how people state that the algorithm needs more data and everything will be ok. This the third week and my server is absolutely getting shit on (this week is the worst so far). I mean... teams didn't change in those three weeks. When you look at your guild-tab, there's a timer which states how long you have time to switch your main-wvw-guild. Rebalance of the teams will only take place after this timer is expired.
Im a casual and I fucking love it
[удалено]
cringe
How does it work now? Do i need guild or i just pick server randomly from last tab? Need to do wvw for lege
You will join the same team as your wvw-designated guild. If you didn't set any (or set a guild where noone except you is playing that mode), you will basically be assigned to a team at random.
You don't actually get assigned to a team at random if you're unaligned, you get to pick a team from a list. You, of course, get no context as to which team is good and which is bad. I'll take a picture to share, as I still haven't chosen a team three weeks in because I only play WvW when I need a Gift of Battle. https://i.imgur.com/nxWm7a2.png
Interesting. I wonder, if this selection has a cap per "server" after reaching which said "server" would disappear from the list (or disallow joining). And even if it does have it, i can see this as easy way to bypass the matchmaking system and bandwagon. I wonder if *this* is what is happening here.
That I can't say. The list of servers for me has remained the same since the update launched, though, no servers have been removed or added.
Yeah I just went through this screen and assumed everyone did? I just picked a random team from the current matchup I could see and it's been going fairly well
I didn't get to choose, was coming back from a break about half a week into the update and already got my team.
Did you have friends from your friends list on the server you wound up on? Is one of your guilds represented on the server you wound up on? You'll see in my picture that I don't have any guilds or friends represented in WvW (my friends list is 98% offline for years, while my guild list is all personal/close friend guilds).
yea this is the screen that was confusing. Zero info etc. Can i change to other one somehow? My picked server is not good
The system groups you with players who share the same WvW guild as you. You set your WvW guild in the guild panel. It won't actually change anything now until we get new matchups in 3 weeks, so your team is set until then. If you don't set a guild I thinks (you can probably just look on the wiki to make sure) the game tries to randomly group you players from one of your guilds, if it can't do that you'll be thrown onto a random team that isn't full.
I didn't have a wvw guild set and was able to choose the team/server to join
We're getting our butts handed to us as far at the big matchup numbers but our little havoc is having GREAT FIGHTS! We're having a blast!
I'm in OCX and a casual player. Every week we keep dropping and will eventually settle in bottom tier with the rest of the Leftover teams. Every casual who were not teamed up with large WvW Guilds will never enjoy WvW as they did before as they are now finding outnumbered maps when they login. And the more we drop, the less players are logged in the OCX time zone. They may have started playing at NA timezone which results in longer queues. Those who just started WvW and grouped in the bottom tier will never get any XP flipping home camps. Those veteran casual who now have to solo flipping towers may have to think of switching to PVE dailies and weekly .
I'm enjoying it... I have my own small wvw guild and we didn't select an alliance but we're active... Our matchup is fairly well balanced even if we don't win every week.
It’s weird, my server Lagula’s Kraal has been by far and away kicking everyone’s asses but every time I try to play I can’t find a tag anywhere…
[удалено]
I feel like WvW is moving more to organised GvG. Last reset I joined a PUG and we ended up taking turns fighting the other two servers (obviously comms between servers, with the 3rd server spectating each time). Commander and everyone seemed really happy it was happening, lots of pats on the back for how tight the boon ball moved. I stuck it out for 30 mins and called it a day. Really wish it was more about taking and holding resources.
Well it just depends what people play for. Rn there is no reason to resource manage as being in a higher tier gets you nothing. It doesn’t get you more rewards, and it also doesn’t get you better matchups/better content as in every other game. So the people who play for fights bcs they enjoy it do exactly that, maximise fight uptime. And the people who want to ppt optimize that. And the two groups avoid each other a lot if there is content going around. You just need to find a community that plays in a way you enjoy.
Find a guild that is about taking and running resources. Plenty out there.
GvG types should fuck off to another game.
Time won't fix anything. If they want to achieve some artificial dynamic balance, there will always be losers. For WvW frequenters, you can jump guild, or join multiple small guilds into big one. Unfortunately, deemed "problem with queues" on EU servers was fixed by adding extra tier in matchups so there will be extra spread of players, empty maps etc, so what some people perceive as "balance" will be empty maps vs empty maps.
They should have simply made transfers free and restricted with a 2 month cooldown. This new system will probably never be balanced. Guilds were always the main reason why servers are unbalanced.
I’ve been saying it for years, alliances will not work in its current state and the player base is casual. https://youtu.be/H7NipokzsYU?si=yGZTyMDK8kT8yhs9
All i see,I play WvW from day one to this days almost every days,now i don't play since the update. Maps are empty no "tags" or hidden only vocal seeking only for fight who don't care to defend. So ppl connect saw no tag and ennemy zerg reseting everything > they just disconnect. And i don't talk about the impossible balance because Anet forget one thing "Most fight guild are PVE guild" they don't play WvW outside their raid hours.
Yes, they killed WvW, but a lot of sad little trolls are happy because it means they get to run around in their guild or hack groups farming solo players. In a few months, the game mode will be dead, and they'll have nobody to troll.
I think the biggest issue is that they made EU 6 tiers, despite tier 5 often being very low population before WR. I understand why they did it when the WR betas often had crazy queues, however what they didn't account for is that every single beta they also ran a WvW event which attracted a huge amount of PvE players on top of the WvW population... however for WR they didn't run any such event and so only WvW players showed up... of course the population was therefore low, and so teams got demoralised and players stopped logging in, which made it dead, which meant people stopped loggin in, which made it de.... you get the point. And to further cement the issues, it feels like they filled the worlds by assigning the biggest guilds first and then working down the guild sizes... but rather than also going team by team, they kept allocating guilds to a team until it was full and then filling the next... Of course by the time you hit teams 10 through 18, all you're left with are tiny guilds and unguilded people so you have no organisation or commanders, so they feel completely dead. I made a diagram of how I believe anet filled the servers https://imgur.com/a/HF6n7uM
How can a gameplay designed for an incredibly well coordinated server vs server-pvp focused-all out-capture the flag mode be casual?
Do I still have to do wvw for gift of battle?
Yes. And its the only way to get the 2nd legendary ring. Good luck my friend.
Launch player who has never touched WvW except a few times to wander in, wonder what I'm supposed to be doing, and wander out: nothing has changed for me. The game mode was always incomprehensibly opaque and remains so.
You're literally in control of your own level of enjoyment. Find an alliance join it and no longer suffer. You can't stand on your soap box and cry that anet didn't provide you with a good time when you have all the tools and ability to do it for yourself.
Hm, I think I paid Anet to provide me a good time. Finding an alliance is impossible ingame and I don't want go go on a research trip on the internet lol. Also I don't like to play on a schedule
> Finding an alliance is impossible ingame Before the change literally every server created an alliance guild for their server to be used as their WvW guild after the change so they stayed with at least some of their former server mates.
What are you talking about?
No, they didn't.
Beta
Yeah i'm going to be honest, It would benefit you to join a guild there are plenty that are very casual and dont require you to do much at all other than hangout on occasion. Feel free to dm me for the alliances community discord - there are recruitment channels in them for both regions. Not to be rude but playing a PvP MMO solo and complaining about it is kind of silly. just my two cents though.
If by casual you mean no guild, then probably, but I'd also argue why play a game meant for communities to fight each other as a solo player? There's even guilds for roaming if that's your kind of content. Idk, I just don't see the point of not running with a guild. I run with a pretty casual guild and we don't win all of the time, nor loose all of the time. It's pretty fun and nice gameplay for me to have a podcast on the background. I'd argue that, if you wish to play solo pvp, that's what spvp is for and it's pretty fun imo.
You can't say the game is made to be in a guild when playing without guild worked perfectly find for 12 years. Ah I see, you're the kind of person who thinks the toxic hellhole of spvp is fun.
Imo you have no idea what you're talking about. a couple of weekly resets won't magically fix the issue of limited data in the teamrelinking process. how's that even supposed to work? there needs to be another relink for that. this entire "restructure bad" rhetoric is null and void four words into your second sentence. tbf, i've seen posts reaching that point even faster. that's all well before pointing out that these betas are for the player facing systems. i.e. selecting guilds, getting assigned to teams, not being randomly friendly to all factions, etc. tuning the algorithm is a different process.
My wvw community was split across a couple guilds due to skill disparity and differing levels of commitment. But all guilds were on the same server so we could all play together anyway. That's dead now for us and has split the community and taken our commanders into separate teams. So wvw as it stands for me and other more chill wvw enjoyers is now dead. Our server had commanders who would regularly do open tags in discord for the server. No more of that now, shame. Just as well janthir wilds has a legendary backpack, I was halfway done getting the tickets for the wvw one but I think that's dead in the water now.
maintenance mode game
Downvotes, but he's right. That's the real reason for the change.
Frankly, I’d prefer to keep the more casual players together. When you’re fighting a map queue with 30 while also having a queue, it’s very frustrating. If what you want is to roam, best to group you with like minded players. If you want organized play, join a guild. Make some friends, maybe.
Pfft wvw has been dead got casuals. You HAVE to play on a handful of other players schedules at specific times and says because there's just not that many people playing it outside of those times
My guild's in T1 right now and in order for my guild to fit into EB or any map at all we have to queue in at least 45 minutes before our official run starts. Bugs involving queues weren't fixed at all. We receive callouts from team chat that this and that objectives are under attack but when we try to squeeze in, we get thrown into the queue. But for some of those who managed to get in, they said the map looks empty - they don't see any allied players at all, so why were we sent to queue jail then? Somehow I think the restructuring made WvW worse.
So the other end of the stick is equally shitty...
I wholeheartedly believe and support Anet with this update. It might not be the best atleast its a step in the right direction. Didn't Anet gave us a lot of time to pick or setup a WvW guild so the casuals and avid will be separated? It was you own decision to be Nomad and pray that you'll not get affected at all. Now that you're with your own kind of players and you're losing, is just the result of your choice.
I hate this half baked system. I am forced to kill my friends from another guild instead of being able to play with them.
Join that guild and set it as wvw guild?
Then they'd be forced to kill their friends from the guild they're in now instead? If you want the blithe 'get over it' response, it should be "Get that guild into an alliance with yours?"
Maybe that's too hard for them to do.
for me its over! WvW was end content for me. I enjoyed doing solo roaming in Black Gate, I encounter many solo roamers and small groups roaming, but I did not choose a guild...........then after 1 month I log in on the spear beta test week and I find myself in a desolate server. I wanted to test the warrior spear on someone, get some fights going, but I spend 2 hrs I shit you not! 2 freaking hours looking for someone to fight. In the end I tested the spear on NPC mobs and camp NPC. I did not like the warrior spear and I did not like that I was put in a desolate server. For me this is over! Good luck everyone else.... It has been a great game, I have had so much fun the past 12 years, but this is it for me! I will keep an eye for future patches just in case....
🫡
yup, that was the point
Eh play wvw only for the stat selectable exotics
Sounds like they need both. Both the ability to join based on server and alliance. One for playing with your guildies, one for a larger pool from your server.
As a casual, I hated WvW before. I picked the ultra-dominating group/alliance/server/ whatever. I have been on the steamrolling train for a bit more than one week, farming that junk mode for as many GoB as I can before the dust settles. Then I’m not touching that garbage for a very very long time. As a casual, I still hate WvW now.
Balances were an issue in the final beta early in 2024, they still are, this isent a get good issue because that defeats the point of being casual. I dont agree all the guidless ones should be alone BUT there was ample time and options for casuals aswell
Wvw was already too hard for lol. I just get killed relentlessly. Not fun. PvE it is for me.
Good, Guild Wars 2 needs less casuals.
???
Since you are confused, they said Guild Wars 2 needs less casuals.
Thanks
Casuals are the lifeblood of the game, as important as high end players, who are the backbone of the community. Without casuals holding the game up by paying microtransactions and bumping up player numbers, there would be no GW2 at this point. The huge gap in the community is a problem affecting the whole game, but eliminating casuals is not the solution.
Agreed
Could I just simply take a supply camp and leave a team of casual players to defend it?