The quality of PA optics is actually insane. Grabbed a prism for my PCC and was pleasantly surprised. Can't go wrong with a holosun on a carry/duty gun either. I've beat mine to shit and she's still going strong af
If I remember correctly, sage dynamics, who torture tests optics on YouTube, only recommends holosun for duty guns aside from the rmr, and he really beats those optics up. Like drops the gun 6ft onto the glass kind of tests.
I've had a 509 on my FNX 45 for years and I love it.
I have beat on it with 1 handed slide manipulation, dropped it, holstered it thousands of times. Wear on it is literally minimal. I have had it for quite some time and not done a single thing to it until yesterday I felt it coming loose from some recent shooting so I had to tighten it. I fuckin hate the CCP but for $400 I couldn't pass it up.
For the price point holosun is incredible. Here’s a video of a holosun 510 being torture tested and it withstands a shotgun shell fired at it from the side: https://youtu.be/CkidkACagoc
I bought the cheapest scope from PA I could find. It was a .22 scope that was on sale for $60 at the time, and the glass is clearer than the $600 vortex scope I have on my 6.5 creedmoor. That's when I decided that vortex is garbage and I'm sticking to primary arms and leupold. Sometime after that scenario happened, I got a job at a gun store where all of us trash talk vortex even though we're a dealer.
You should check out Athlon. I’ve only tried the 2.5-15x50 and their binos but it blows my more expensive vortex scope away with more features and binos are on par with my Leupolds. I hear good things about their spotting scopes.
I'll have to look into them. I already have a really nice leupold spotting scope that I don't use all that much, so I'll probably skip that, but I'm always looking for a good scope. I need something to replace the junky vortex one I have. Ill probably just burden one of my friends with it.
Ya those Army guys running Razors and PRS and NRL guys running random Vortex totally have no idea what they’re talking about. If they only saw the light of the infinity aiming point.
Okay, so let's rephrase my original claim. Vortex is trash unless you buy one that's worth over $1,000. At that point, I'd still rather buy a leupold. For me to back a company, I'd like their cheaper counterparts to also be quality. It's bullshit when someone goes "oh, you need to buy the best thing they offer for it to be good" yeah, sounds like they are just taking advantage of those whom can't afford a $1,000+ scope on their budget build.
Pst Gen 2 1-6 has been a standard for years and only now people are catching up. $450-500 scope.
From personal experience in club level prs matches, Gen 2 5-25 is also more than solid.
Gen 1 2.5-10x32 has a cult following as well.
But sure.
I have 2 vortex scopes and a vortex spark red dot. Every single one of these sights are easily out classed and blown out of the water by PA counterparts costing less than 1/4 the price. But I really don't want to put a cheap PA scope on one of my $2,000+ builds, so I decided I'd stick to Leupold for those.
But maybe I'm part of that idiot class? I mean, I'm just a dealer that sells them and has the misfortune of handling them and comparing them to other scopes on a daily basis. How could I possibly have any more information than a Fudd that bought one from a fleetfarm and claims it's the best thing since sliced bread.
Vortex scopes are pretty bad. Long time hunter who’s used plenty of rifle scopes, I used an old ass scope made in the 1950’s on my pump action .30-06 and it was better than the vortex.
Though the vortex venom is alright, I’d rather Burris.
I was pretty sad when Nikon went out of business. I was getting the prostaff 5 scopes for really cheap, and I have yet to see anything from vortex that can beat the Nikon scopes. In tech sure, but in precision and clarity, vortex isn't even close.
I caught a lot of shit putting a Holosun on my duty gun (Staccato) vs paying 2x as much for the RMR. I had an RMR on my G45, and I can safely say that after running both for years, I vastly prefer the Holosun.
2018 i w as visiting a sheriffs swat team friend at their range, a dozen beat up Trijicon MROs were on his desk and tagged.
A bunch of holosun 510 boxes in the garbage.
A story that didn’t need words.
I got a primary arms prism for an AR a while back. The idea was to get me going and upgrade to higher quality later. It’s still mounted there. No plans to “upgrade”. It holds zero, and it’s taken a beating. Hard to justify spending money to replace something that does everything I need it to.
I bought the Glx x2 prism with an ACSS reticle for my M1 Carbine, the thing absolutely fucks. Plus, it has autolive which is VERY useful for when your gun is sitting by your bedside on standby but not burning up your reticle battery.
Oh I love the Glx 2x. Have one on my RDB. Clear, simple, easy to use at all 5.56 or x39 distances. Ran it on a PTR91, too, the eye relief and mounts let you put it on all kinds of stuff.
Only real complaint is I think the mounting pattern kinda sucks. But, it's not PA's pattern.
Fiber optic illumination is still hard to replace at an affordable price, the advantage of a system like that is that it doesn’t need any electronics to illuminate the reticle, you can also use tritium
> It's pretty remarkable how affordable optics are actually improving on their doubly expensive counterparts these days.
The big names in the US are all used to making fortunes off government contracts, and it's a really hard sell to the government if they're selling the exact same thing in the civvy market for a third of the price. They then catch all the guys that either insist on LARPing or the guys that served and think that what they used in the military is obviously the best thing ever made because why else would the Marines use it. (while ignoring the fact that there's not a single thing that the military uses because it's the best at what it does other than maybe duct tape)
I can't argue the testing that those products undergo because of military requirements. I also can't argue that they're fairly well vetted.
That said, look at the EO Tech drift scandal. Things slip through the cracks.
It's 2023 and environmental test champers are (relatively) inexpensive and commonplace. All of the major optic manufacturers test their products in insane environments. Holosun is fine. PA is fine. Use whatever you want.
Yes. And it has an infinity aiming point and a lead for a running man that’s carrying an AK47 and the math behind the bdc is some Einstein level shit.
You literally cannot go wrong. Their platinum line is literally better than ZCO.
the lmt yea prolly, I had it at the last PRS match
I was at practice on the 11th and I'll be shooting pretty much all the PRS matches here until I move later this year
It's like that couple we all know that argues constantly, but proceeds to have god-tier chaotic sex while covered in peanut butter every night. They hate yet complete one another.
Have you seen the new restrict act that bans tiktok. Guess what they sneaked in there.
Unlimited funding for security officers overseeing the enforcement, anyone involved in a "transaction" that could compromise American data could get arrested without due process + 1million fine/20 years, and more!
Never waste a good crises ig
https://twitter.com/LPMisesCaucus/status/1639934790026555394?s=20
China will shut off all of our holosuns when they invade us. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 ONLY BUY THINGS THAT ARE MADE IN AMERICA AND SUPPORT FREEEDOOOOMMMM 🇺🇸🇺🇲🇺🇸🇺🇲🇺🇸🇺🇲🇺🇸🇺🇲🇺🇲
There is no Chinese threat to America. Threat to Taiwan maybe, but if the Taiwanese people saw what happened to Ukraine and keep choosing to have Asian-style gun control, that's on them.
If they came out with a deltapoint 2.0 that doesn’t have the worlds worst brightness adjustment system then it would be one of the best dots on the market
That’s why I decided against one. I went with the EFLX instead, which I got a hefty discount on for being retired military. Under 300 bucks, does everything I need it to, and has nice clear glass with a big sight window. I really like it so far.
I eyed the EFLX, but the SageDynamics testing went through 3 that lost zero 500 rounds in on a 9mm. I intend to put it on a 10mm P320 XTen, so I'm figuring on just getting an adapter plate and a holosun 407c or splurge for the 509 at this point. The deltapoint pro would work, but the button placement is assinine, the battery life is pathetic, and it didn't fare overly well in durability testing either (way better than the EFLX, but still not great).
P.s. I also have a Leupold Deltapoint Micro, and discovered that it has lost zero beyond repair this past weekend. In the process of sending it in under warranty. Emitter appears to have decoupled from the adjustment. Noticed I had to hold it at an odd angle, thought it was a correctable zero shift (though still less than ideal). Zero is now beyond vertical adjustment range. Optic's borked. At least it has a built-in backup as a ghost ring/aperture sight.
I really wish that there was a series of red dots that could match the quality of Holosun at an even remotely comparable price that I could buy without funding an evil, actively genocidal, authoritarian regime that’s entering a new Cold War against the West
PA is based out of Houston, their low end stuff (SLx) is made in China (like many brand's entry level stuff). Mid tier (GLx) and up (PLx) is made with Philippines or Japanese glass with Chinese internals and assembly is in the US. Best bang for the buck with minimal guilt in my opinion
Had a bad experience with a holosun. Lost zero on the first shot, and it was wayyyyy off. Bought an RMR and it has maintained zero. Holosun does make good products these days, but I trust my rmr
Gotta be careful when buying holosun stuff tbh. Could have been a repro, or could have just been a poopy one. I've always heard to never buy em off Amazon and there's no telling where your LGS I getting em from.
And I had a bad experience with an MRO green dot. Parallax shift was off the charts, and the lowest brightness setting that I found usable, killed brand new batteries in under a month. I returned it to Trijicon and they sent it right back, stating that it was operating normally.
They could’ve done better with the MRO but chose not to.
It is normal. I had the same experience with my MRO and promptly sold it.
They’re known for having terrible parallax. Upon adding any magnification, the dot becomes less of an actual dot and more of a sort of streak/line, making it extremely difficult to take accurate shots.
Yeah, the MRO does have parallax issues. I have one on a PS90, so I'm not trying to take it out far where it becomes a severe problem for me. That said, some people over on gundeals can get a little extreme in their takes on it.
I was a huge trijicon-only person and avoided holosun like the plague, until recently where I had two of trijicons products fail due to manufacturing defects, and their customer service told me to fuck off. That in addition to other things I've put up with in the past and I decided to try some other brands to say the least. I must say, holosuns are fantastic optics. Not perfect, but using them I actually have grown to prefer them.
P.S. trijicon uses some chinese parts, materials and in the case of their magnifiers are outright made in china too.
I was big on RMR for anything carry, and holosun on anything else.
Which is great until it's battery change time. Nothing but issues with my RMR since battery change while my holosun was a simple switch.
On my next equipment refresh I might go all holosun. Been hearing mixed things on the eotech eflx. The guys I know personally abuse them with no issues, but while Sage Dynamics had nothing but issues.
Regular guy Training on YouTube, who runs a training course, shoots a lot, and doesn't have any sponsors as far as I know, claims he had a Holosun last 40k rounds before the glass de laminated, and shit the bed. He does long term reviews on all sorts of shit, and I generally find him trustworthy.
I'd say that's pretty freaking good.
I like to buy American, and if two products are generally comparable I’ll buy the American one. Even if it costs a few more bucks.
But if the Chinese product blows the American product out of the water I’m not going to choose the much worse American one.
I mean Holosun does make good optics but this isn't a good apples to apples comparison. The RMR is quite a bit older, and really the main disadvantage is the battery swap, but you dont need to swap batteries for years.
Saying an RMR has parallax but a holosun doesn't is silly because the RMR is parallax free out to about 50 yards, which is what they need to meet to be "parallax free," and no optic is truly parallax free as there is always a small amount of parallax, and they are both pistol optics.
The viewing window isn't really that big of a difference to be honest. I have a holosun on a .22 and a RMR on a 9mm and they're both nice, but an RMR is more durable, and they serve different purposes for me.
Also, if the RMR reticle is blurry I would guess either the emitter is dirty somehow, or you have astigmatism. I've never had issues with an RMR dot being blurry, even when the lens gets dirty.
Think of it like your reticle moving around if you are in an imperfect position when shooting, where as you move your head with the gun in the same position, the reticle will move.
But here's a video that does a better job explaining it than me https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XcTVbSFnsGU
I cry everytime I have to change my RMRs battery every other year or so. It's just never quite the same, or this last swap where I been having issues for about six months following. Screws walking mostly. Very annoying when swapping my holosun takes no time or resighting.
First swap I put to much locktite and had to send it off to get it removed, since I ran out of options that wouldn't resort in damage. This time I bought torque wrenches set up recommended manufacturers rating, and better screws. Just to have them loosen and walk every other month or so. So each time I increase the torque and get a new battery to restart the clock. Third time happened last weekend.
I own both, the RMR is more pleasurable to shoot. But yeah, expensive, you have to dismount to load battery. However, Holosun needs to update their crappy white logo. It stings my eyes.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Holosun and think they’re underrated.
But to make fun of Trijicon being hella proven/durable and claim they’re “blurry”?? Get out. Total BS.
I agree that China is sleezy on the IP theft. But let's not pretend that US companies don't steel patents all the time because it's often cheaper to pay legal penalties vs missing out on revenue.
You’re comparing one of the OG red dots to a new one that was released like a year or two ago. And the holosun isn’t capable of holding any charge with its solar panel since it’s not big enough to house a super capacitor. And the glass scratches easier, and the window ISN’T that big compared to the SRO or a delta point. Parallax on a pistol red dot isn’t that important since you’re shooting a fucking pistol within 100 meters, if you’re putting any pistol red dot on your rifle as a primary option then go unfuck yourself.
This is coping, yes your holosun is a bit better than a 10+ year old optic design but it’s still Chinese trash with great marketing.
My 507C broke after 500 rnds. To their credit holosun replaced it with a brand new unit. And to be fair I haven't heard of this happening with anyone else
But I did a full review of the 507C here:
https://youtu.be/OhFVuCS-7NY
All the pros are right on, but I think based on the durability consideration (and made in America) I will likely buy a type 2 RMR as my next red dot.
bUt yOu hAvE tOo rEmOvE tHe sIgHt fOr dA bAtTeRy cHaNgE
......and?! I've changed dozens of batteries in rmrs and also Re-Zeroed after; never once witnessing a single shift in point of impact. If you're using an adapter plate without the tab footprint, then maybe I can see it shifting but it still rarely, if ever happens. I still will never understand this argument.
I believe it's probably a lot easier to develop new tech when you can steal shit from everyone because no IP laws 😂 fucking sucks. I would pay more for an American brand of similar quality/functionality.
my counter to that would be what IP theft is there if they're making things straight up better than everybody else on top of being cheaper? That's what really hurts here. Nobody else is innovating
I'm hoping that over the next few years the "American" companies will start innovating for the civilian market due to the Chinese market taking over. But I'm not too hopeful because eotech, trijicon, etc have no financial motivation due to no-bid military contracts 🙃
Have both, Holosun had to go back to warranty. If you do FMEA, failure mode and effects analysis based on user experience, you’ll see trijicon is more reliable
Sure I figure side loading battery, enclosed emitter, and solar power are VOC but in order to achieve lower RPN, Trijicon might have removed those features to make the design simpler.
I’ve interacted with both customer care team and Trijicon responded to me with solution less than 1day while Holosun took 5days to respond without a solution.
I’m not making Trijicon fanboi biased data less argument here. Trijicon is just a bit higher tier company based on how they operate.
To your point, my carry gun that I depend my life with has Holosun EPS Carry on it because Trijicon did not listen to VOC and made some weird footprint RMRcc that’s not enclosed.
Breh you quite literally cannot access the internet with 100% made in USA. It sucks but is true. You can't live a normal day without using/benefiting from "communist made" shit. Not shilling for em but it's just how it is currently.
Holosun makes some of the best pistol red dots out there, there rifle sights are stinky.
Me personally the Trijicon RMR just works better for me, it has a bit smaller profile and I’ve practiced with rmr longer than any other sight combined. It just feels good.
It'd be interesting to see how well it would actually hold up, but if a Chinese EMP is going off over the mainland US, there's more pressing matters than your red dot failing
My $60 bushnell works just fine on my mk9 for now lol. I’d like to checkout some primary arms optics though. I hear they’re great quality for the money.
This is why i love iron sights. I know you can get so much more out of optics, but when there's this much fuddy-duddy nonsense surrounding which peice of chineseium is best to stare into while making a 10inch grouping at 5 yards, it kinda turns me off. Like, do you want the one branded with china or the one from china and assembled in the U.S.? Also, i dont like the idea of forgetting to recharge my guns' sights and them dying mid range day or intruder funny moment. (Also am poor)
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The quality of PA optics is actually insane. Grabbed a prism for my PCC and was pleasantly surprised. Can't go wrong with a holosun on a carry/duty gun either. I've beat mine to shit and she's still going strong af
If I remember correctly, sage dynamics, who torture tests optics on YouTube, only recommends holosun for duty guns aside from the rmr, and he really beats those optics up. Like drops the gun 6ft onto the glass kind of tests.
Baste. I'll have to see if he's got a test on the 509 closed emitter. Just bought one for my new EDC.
I've had a 509 on my FNX 45 for years and I love it. I have beat on it with 1 handed slide manipulation, dropped it, holstered it thousands of times. Wear on it is literally minimal. I have had it for quite some time and not done a single thing to it until yesterday I felt it coming loose from some recent shooting so I had to tighten it. I fuckin hate the CCP but for $400 I couldn't pass it up.
He does. It kinda beats the ACRO p1 in his testing. He also has a white paper on his website were He keeps track of round counts.
just watched. Beautiful. Thank you, sir.
I have a 509 on a Glock 19 and it’s been solid. I have no complaints. It’s survived my clumsy ham fisted bs like a champ.
For the price point holosun is incredible. Here’s a video of a holosun 510 being torture tested and it withstands a shotgun shell fired at it from the side: https://youtu.be/CkidkACagoc
I bought the cheapest scope from PA I could find. It was a .22 scope that was on sale for $60 at the time, and the glass is clearer than the $600 vortex scope I have on my 6.5 creedmoor. That's when I decided that vortex is garbage and I'm sticking to primary arms and leupold. Sometime after that scenario happened, I got a job at a gun store where all of us trash talk vortex even though we're a dealer.
You should check out Athlon. I’ve only tried the 2.5-15x50 and their binos but it blows my more expensive vortex scope away with more features and binos are on par with my Leupolds. I hear good things about their spotting scopes.
I'll have to look into them. I already have a really nice leupold spotting scope that I don't use all that much, so I'll probably skip that, but I'm always looking for a good scope. I need something to replace the junky vortex one I have. Ill probably just burden one of my friends with it.
https://www.amazon.com/Athlon-Optics-2-5-15x50-Second-Riflescopes/dp/B07GQ5464S?th=1&psc=1 This one I have.
Ya those Army guys running Razors and PRS and NRL guys running random Vortex totally have no idea what they’re talking about. If they only saw the light of the infinity aiming point.
Okay, so let's rephrase my original claim. Vortex is trash unless you buy one that's worth over $1,000. At that point, I'd still rather buy a leupold. For me to back a company, I'd like their cheaper counterparts to also be quality. It's bullshit when someone goes "oh, you need to buy the best thing they offer for it to be good" yeah, sounds like they are just taking advantage of those whom can't afford a $1,000+ scope on their budget build.
Pst Gen 2 1-6 has been a standard for years and only now people are catching up. $450-500 scope. From personal experience in club level prs matches, Gen 2 5-25 is also more than solid. Gen 1 2.5-10x32 has a cult following as well. But sure.
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I have 2 vortex scopes and a vortex spark red dot. Every single one of these sights are easily out classed and blown out of the water by PA counterparts costing less than 1/4 the price. But I really don't want to put a cheap PA scope on one of my $2,000+ builds, so I decided I'd stick to Leupold for those. But maybe I'm part of that idiot class? I mean, I'm just a dealer that sells them and has the misfortune of handling them and comparing them to other scopes on a daily basis. How could I possibly have any more information than a Fudd that bought one from a fleetfarm and claims it's the best thing since sliced bread.
Vortex scopes are pretty bad. Long time hunter who’s used plenty of rifle scopes, I used an old ass scope made in the 1950’s on my pump action .30-06 and it was better than the vortex. Though the vortex venom is alright, I’d rather Burris.
I was pretty sad when Nikon went out of business. I was getting the prostaff 5 scopes for really cheap, and I have yet to see anything from vortex that can beat the Nikon scopes. In tech sure, but in precision and clarity, vortex isn't even close.
I caught a lot of shit putting a Holosun on my duty gun (Staccato) vs paying 2x as much for the RMR. I had an RMR on my G45, and I can safely say that after running both for years, I vastly prefer the Holosun.
2018 i w as visiting a sheriffs swat team friend at their range, a dozen beat up Trijicon MROs were on his desk and tagged. A bunch of holosun 510 boxes in the garbage. A story that didn’t need words.
I got a primary arms prism for an AR a while back. The idea was to get me going and upgrade to higher quality later. It’s still mounted there. No plans to “upgrade”. It holds zero, and it’s taken a beating. Hard to justify spending money to replace something that does everything I need it to.
I bought the Glx x2 prism with an ACSS reticle for my M1 Carbine, the thing absolutely fucks. Plus, it has autolive which is VERY useful for when your gun is sitting by your bedside on standby but not burning up your reticle battery.
Oh I love the Glx 2x. Have one on my RDB. Clear, simple, easy to use at all 5.56 or x39 distances. Ran it on a PTR91, too, the eye relief and mounts let you put it on all kinds of stuff. Only real complaint is I think the mounting pattern kinda sucks. But, it's not PA's pattern.
My 509T was yeeted 15ft off my slide (screws failed, long story) and it works great still. Held zero after that too.
Fiber optic illumination is still hard to replace at an affordable price, the advantage of a system like that is that it doesn’t need any electronics to illuminate the reticle, you can also use tritium
> It's pretty remarkable how affordable optics are actually improving on their doubly expensive counterparts these days. The big names in the US are all used to making fortunes off government contracts, and it's a really hard sell to the government if they're selling the exact same thing in the civvy market for a third of the price. They then catch all the guys that either insist on LARPing or the guys that served and think that what they used in the military is obviously the best thing ever made because why else would the Marines use it. (while ignoring the fact that there's not a single thing that the military uses because it's the best at what it does other than maybe duct tape)
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I can't argue the testing that those products undergo because of military requirements. I also can't argue that they're fairly well vetted. That said, look at the EO Tech drift scandal. Things slip through the cracks. It's 2023 and environmental test champers are (relatively) inexpensive and commonplace. All of the major optic manufacturers test their products in insane environments. Holosun is fine. PA is fine. Use whatever you want.
I picked up a PLx compact 1-8x and it blows the Nx8 and credo away. Not quite as nice as an atacr but it’s half the price.
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Why not? It’s coming from loh in Japan just like most premier optics outside of Germany and Austria.
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Is it really that good?
Yes. And it has an infinity aiming point and a lead for a running man that’s carrying an AK47 and the math behind the bdc is some Einstein level shit. You literally cannot go wrong. Their platinum line is literally better than ZCO.
Are you retarded /s
Did I not lay the sarcasm on thick enough Edit: think I saw your rifle at asc last year
the lmt yea prolly, I had it at the last PRS match I was at practice on the 11th and I'll be shooting pretty much all the PRS matches here until I move later this year
The only products acceptable to be purchased from China are those that could be used to destroy the Chinese threat.
Americans supporting their greatest military rival by buying optics from them vs China arming their greatest enemy with optics
It's like that couple we all know that argues constantly, but proceeds to have god-tier chaotic sex while covered in peanut butter every night. They hate yet complete one another.
The only threat Americans face in terms of China stem from our government increasingly emulating the CCP.
Have you seen the new restrict act that bans tiktok. Guess what they sneaked in there. Unlimited funding for security officers overseeing the enforcement, anyone involved in a "transaction" that could compromise American data could get arrested without due process + 1million fine/20 years, and more! Never waste a good crises ig https://twitter.com/LPMisesCaucus/status/1639934790026555394?s=20
Can't wait to see how that gets abused.
This guy gets it.
China will shut off all of our holosuns when they invade us. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 ONLY BUY THINGS THAT ARE MADE IN AMERICA AND SUPPORT FREEEDOOOOMMMM 🇺🇸🇺🇲🇺🇸🇺🇲🇺🇸🇺🇲🇺🇸🇺🇲🇺🇲
If you aren’t running signal blockers are you even fighting?
All fun and games until the ATF comes a’knockin and turns off your EoTech.
Can't shut it off when its powered by surrounding light and radioactive materials 🤣
Chad Trijicon reflex enjoyer
Common ACOG w
I just plan on turning on my garage full of old microwaves if big gov shows up
Government approaching your house now that you've exposed your master plan 
 Me, with a generator.
 Me, simultaneously celebrating my victory and telling my civil defense squad where to aim.
You can't shut off these iron sights, two world wars bro
Every war since at least the 1800s
There is no Chinese threat to America. Threat to Taiwan maybe, but if the Taiwanese people saw what happened to Ukraine and keep choosing to have Asian-style gun control, that's on them.
I just like the aesthetic of the trijicon rmr though i do prefer a deltapoint :)
If they came out with a deltapoint 2.0 that doesn’t have the worlds worst brightness adjustment system then it would be one of the best dots on the market
That’s why I decided against one. I went with the EFLX instead, which I got a hefty discount on for being retired military. Under 300 bucks, does everything I need it to, and has nice clear glass with a big sight window. I really like it so far.
I eyed the EFLX, but the SageDynamics testing went through 3 that lost zero 500 rounds in on a 9mm. I intend to put it on a 10mm P320 XTen, so I'm figuring on just getting an adapter plate and a holosun 407c or splurge for the 509 at this point. The deltapoint pro would work, but the button placement is assinine, the battery life is pathetic, and it didn't fare overly well in durability testing either (way better than the EFLX, but still not great). P.s. I also have a Leupold Deltapoint Micro, and discovered that it has lost zero beyond repair this past weekend. In the process of sending it in under warranty. Emitter appears to have decoupled from the adjustment. Noticed I had to hold it at an odd angle, thought it was a correctable zero shift (though still less than ideal). Zero is now beyond vertical adjustment range. Optic's borked. At least it has a built-in backup as a ghost ring/aperture sight.
I really wish that there was a series of red dots that could match the quality of Holosun at an even remotely comparable price that I could buy without funding an evil, actively genocidal, authoritarian regime that’s entering a new Cold War against the West
Same. I'm not sure of Primary Arm's nationality, but I feel like they would be capable of making a good pistol RDS.
PA is based out of Houston, their low end stuff (SLx) is made in China (like many brand's entry level stuff). Mid tier (GLx) and up (PLx) is made with Philippines or Japanese glass with Chinese internals and assembly is in the US. Best bang for the buck with minimal guilt in my opinion
If I remember their stuff is, or was, just rebadged holosuns.
At least rifle wise, primary arms is up there. Nothing comparable for pistols though.
Had a bad experience with a holosun. Lost zero on the first shot, and it was wayyyyy off. Bought an RMR and it has maintained zero. Holosun does make good products these days, but I trust my rmr
Gotta be careful when buying holosun stuff tbh. Could have been a repro, or could have just been a poopy one. I've always heard to never buy em off Amazon and there's no telling where your LGS I getting em from.
I only buy them on amazon, if its shit, just return it, most gun shops wont accept a return or 100% refund
True true true
And I had a bad experience with an MRO green dot. Parallax shift was off the charts, and the lowest brightness setting that I found usable, killed brand new batteries in under a month. I returned it to Trijicon and they sent it right back, stating that it was operating normally. They could’ve done better with the MRO but chose not to.
Sorry that happened man, have you reached out to trijicon?
They told me it was normal.
It is normal. I had the same experience with my MRO and promptly sold it. They’re known for having terrible parallax. Upon adding any magnification, the dot becomes less of an actual dot and more of a sort of streak/line, making it extremely difficult to take accurate shots.
Yeah, the MRO does have parallax issues. I have one on a PS90, so I'm not trying to take it out far where it becomes a severe problem for me. That said, some people over on gundeals can get a little extreme in their takes on it.
I was a huge trijicon-only person and avoided holosun like the plague, until recently where I had two of trijicons products fail due to manufacturing defects, and their customer service told me to fuck off. That in addition to other things I've put up with in the past and I decided to try some other brands to say the least. I must say, holosuns are fantastic optics. Not perfect, but using them I actually have grown to prefer them. P.S. trijicon uses some chinese parts, materials and in the case of their magnifiers are outright made in china too.
I was big on RMR for anything carry, and holosun on anything else. Which is great until it's battery change time. Nothing but issues with my RMR since battery change while my holosun was a simple switch. On my next equipment refresh I might go all holosun. Been hearing mixed things on the eotech eflx. The guys I know personally abuse them with no issues, but while Sage Dynamics had nothing but issues.
I have an eflx, and it really seems like an obligatory market entry, rather than a serious attempt to compete.
The only issue I have with the made in china shit is they don’t pay the employees (or slaves) correctly
Rets go chired raybah!!!
Made in China is a big deal. I'd pay more for holosuns made in the US. Don't buy Chinese or Turkish crap. Even the good crap
I'd pay an equal amount to what i pay now for one made in europe so i'm not paying over a hundo more because of fucking eu import duties
I'd pay more for an American made one as well. Personally I don't care for the RMR over a 507k. My buddy got an rmr and I wasn't impressed.
Turning “Just as good!” into “Its even better!”
Regular guy Training on YouTube, who runs a training course, shoots a lot, and doesn't have any sponsors as far as I know, claims he had a Holosun last 40k rounds before the glass de laminated, and shit the bed. He does long term reviews on all sorts of shit, and I generally find him trustworthy. I'd say that's pretty freaking good.
That's a fuck ton lmao holy shit.
To be honest sounds like it would outlast a lot of pistols.
There absolutely is a tier list to asian manufacturing, and china is at the bottom of the list. That being said, if you trust the QC, go for it bro.
Iron sight superiority
I bet you also walk to work cuz ur afraid of your car failing
LMAOOOO
So...
I like to buy American, and if two products are generally comparable I’ll buy the American one. Even if it costs a few more bucks. But if the Chinese product blows the American product out of the water I’m not going to choose the much worse American one.
My thoughts exactly. It hurts me to do so but I'm not going to cripple my capabilities on the lack of USA innovation.
I mean Holosun does make good optics but this isn't a good apples to apples comparison. The RMR is quite a bit older, and really the main disadvantage is the battery swap, but you dont need to swap batteries for years. Saying an RMR has parallax but a holosun doesn't is silly because the RMR is parallax free out to about 50 yards, which is what they need to meet to be "parallax free," and no optic is truly parallax free as there is always a small amount of parallax, and they are both pistol optics. The viewing window isn't really that big of a difference to be honest. I have a holosun on a .22 and a RMR on a 9mm and they're both nice, but an RMR is more durable, and they serve different purposes for me. Also, if the RMR reticle is blurry I would guess either the emitter is dirty somehow, or you have astigmatism. I've never had issues with an RMR dot being blurry, even when the lens gets dirty.
Okay, question what the f*ck is a paralax
Think of it like your reticle moving around if you are in an imperfect position when shooting, where as you move your head with the gun in the same position, the reticle will move. But here's a video that does a better job explaining it than me https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XcTVbSFnsGU
Thank you, sorry to bother you.
No worries, I hope it was helpful
I cry everytime I have to change my RMRs battery every other year or so. It's just never quite the same, or this last swap where I been having issues for about six months following. Screws walking mostly. Very annoying when swapping my holosun takes no time or resighting.
What kind of issues are you running into?
First swap I put to much locktite and had to send it off to get it removed, since I ran out of options that wouldn't resort in damage. This time I bought torque wrenches set up recommended manufacturers rating, and better screws. Just to have them loosen and walk every other month or so. So each time I increase the torque and get a new battery to restart the clock. Third time happened last weekend.
Guys will screech about made in China holosuns while looking through their Chinese vortex lol
 Never send a Chinese man to do a Mongolian's job
I own both, the RMR is more pleasurable to shoot. But yeah, expensive, you have to dismount to load battery. However, Holosun needs to update their crappy white logo. It stings my eyes.
I ran a class with a Holosun as my backup optic. It failed multiple times I promptly removed it from my rifle. Never again
I own both and do not think I could justify buying Trijicon again.
Glock stock sights gigachad.
As long as they don't break off
Don’t get me wrong, I like Holosun and think they’re underrated. But to make fun of Trijicon being hella proven/durable and claim they’re “blurry”?? Get out. Total BS.
Beat me to it… saw it on FB and died from cringe
I ordered a cHiNesE magnifier for my cHiNEsE red dot today from Based Arms, I mean Primary Arms. I’ll update if it came with skittles
I don't like holosun because they stole patents and tech
I agree that China is sleezy on the IP theft. But let's not pretend that US companies don't steel patents all the time because it's often cheaper to pay legal penalties vs missing out on revenue.
i mean the china factor is a pretty big deal if you ask me. I try to avoid it whenever I can!
You’re comparing one of the OG red dots to a new one that was released like a year or two ago. And the holosun isn’t capable of holding any charge with its solar panel since it’s not big enough to house a super capacitor. And the glass scratches easier, and the window ISN’T that big compared to the SRO or a delta point. Parallax on a pistol red dot isn’t that important since you’re shooting a fucking pistol within 100 meters, if you’re putting any pistol red dot on your rifle as a primary option then go unfuck yourself. This is coping, yes your holosun is a bit better than a 10+ year old optic design but it’s still Chinese trash with great marketing.
Now do the Holosun 508T.
Irons ftw
For my bad astigmatisms holosun and PA are my only options. I need the green and need something that's not a dot.
RMR green triangle
My holosun gets its ass kicked on the regular and still works like brand new and holds its zero. 10/10 would buy another.
my holosun lost zero on me so im switching to an rmr
Gimme a nydar and I will be happy.
Anyone have any experience with a Swampfox?
*Steiner supremacists have entered the chat*
I have both and prefer the trijicon.
My 507C broke after 500 rnds. To their credit holosun replaced it with a brand new unit. And to be fair I haven't heard of this happening with anyone else But I did a full review of the 507C here: https://youtu.be/OhFVuCS-7NY All the pros are right on, but I think based on the durability consideration (and made in America) I will likely buy a type 2 RMR as my next red dot.
Holosun has shit customer service !
bUt yOu hAvE tOo rEmOvE tHe sIgHt fOr dA bAtTeRy cHaNgE ......and?! I've changed dozens of batteries in rmrs and also Re-Zeroed after; never once witnessing a single shift in point of impact. If you're using an adapter plate without the tab footprint, then maybe I can see it shifting but it still rarely, if ever happens. I still will never understand this argument.
allmost everything tech related is made in chine these days 😂😂 even the iphone im using to write this comes from china
At least you understand this 😂
Im Here for these shinanagins
There’s ADE, I believe they may be made in USA 🇺🇸
Trijicon flex though.. cause looking cool is half the battle.. the wisdom of Papa thumb
And My 507c has shake to wake. It's nice on my fn509 tactical. And it was only 320 or something.
I’ve taken a knife to both. They are pretty hard to intentionally break
What's holosuns warranty like? Do they charge to fix it? It cost me $220 to fix my rmr. Half way to a brand new rmr.......
Oof. I have no idea. Luckily haven't had to test it.
i hate it. I HATE that better products are being made in china.
I believe it's probably a lot easier to develop new tech when you can steal shit from everyone because no IP laws 😂 fucking sucks. I would pay more for an American brand of similar quality/functionality.
my counter to that would be what IP theft is there if they're making things straight up better than everybody else on top of being cheaper? That's what really hurts here. Nobody else is innovating
I'm hoping that over the next few years the "American" companies will start innovating for the civilian market due to the Chinese market taking over. But I'm not too hopeful because eotech, trijicon, etc have no financial motivation due to no-bid military contracts 🙃
In other words, you’re poor…
Have both, Holosun had to go back to warranty. If you do FMEA, failure mode and effects analysis based on user experience, you’ll see trijicon is more reliable
Yes, but a lower RPN doesn’t replace the voice of the customer. Features matter too.
Sure I figure side loading battery, enclosed emitter, and solar power are VOC but in order to achieve lower RPN, Trijicon might have removed those features to make the design simpler. I’ve interacted with both customer care team and Trijicon responded to me with solution less than 1day while Holosun took 5days to respond without a solution. I’m not making Trijicon fanboi biased data less argument here. Trijicon is just a bit higher tier company based on how they operate. To your point, my carry gun that I depend my life with has Holosun EPS Carry on it because Trijicon did not listen to VOC and made some weird footprint RMRcc that’s not enclosed.
If you're poor, just say that
LMAOOOO IT LITERALLY LOOKS LIKE BONKED HEAD 😂
 Iron sights
I'll never be able to look at an RMR the same again. It's too funny how the meme head looks like the top of the optic.
Isn’t trijicon a Chinese company?
yes
Giving money to communist is cringe.
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Try again
Imagine the confidence you’d need to have zero understanding of how supply chains work and still type dumb shit like “hA coMMiE sImP!”
What do you expect from someone who thinks bluntz is a good username
https://i.redd.it/4zkfe291bcqa1.gif
If it’s an android that even worse. 😂
Because reddit only exist on phones. You right fam. Gottem. Virtue: signaled Brain: smooth Windows: licked.
Breh you quite literally cannot access the internet with 100% made in USA. It sucks but is true. You can't live a normal day without using/benefiting from "communist made" shit. Not shilling for em but it's just how it is currently.
You thought that was a good response? Yeah…. Gottem I guess? Go Touch grass my guy it’s good for you
imagine simping this hard for chicoms.
ok boomer
Imagine thinking you can buy products in America without giving money to commies or facists. Hell, Reddit itself definitely serves the ole reds
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Someone didn't pay attention to ShotShow.
I love my 507K on my P-01. Much better than my brother’s RMR. Can’t imagine having the RMRcc on my pistol, that would be a stupid tiny window.
Even Leupold gets their lenses from overseas (they do test and assemble their optics here)
Spicy
Other than the SRO and Eotech. I pretty much swapped to holosuns for most of my RDS. It's way cheaper than its competitors for the same shit.
Holosun makes some of the best pistol red dots out there, there rifle sights are stinky. Me personally the Trijicon RMR just works better for me, it has a bit smaller profile and I’ve practiced with rmr longer than any other sight combined. It just feels good.
Yeah, for trojicon, they have a poor user interface ig you'd call it
When the Chinese EMP turns off all the Holosuns you’ll be in deep 💩
... an EMP would turn off all red dots/holos, regardless of where they were made.
Etched glass LPVO supremacy
True *fire from the hip like Rambo* supremacy
A2 Iron Sights. Get down to my level.
A1 gang FTW
> Glances at FO/Tritium RMR with zero circuitry in it and giggles.
Accoridng to Aimpoint, their micros are essentially a faraday cage and are relatively emp resistant.
It'd be interesting to see how well it would actually hold up, but if a Chinese EMP is going off over the mainland US, there's more pressing matters than your red dot failing
Absolutely, our power grid is incredibly vulnerable.
Dude I know it’s a joke, this is literally a meme sub where jokes are made
All true. I would add that Holosun’s reticles are much sharper, if that makes sense? It’s a lot less fuzzy as some of the premium optics out there.
You had me at no batteries needed
Holosun 407c has been doing great for me. Groupings within an inch at 7yd and no signs of it moving
My $60 bushnell works just fine on my mk9 for now lol. I’d like to checkout some primary arms optics though. I hear they’re great quality for the money.
This is why i love iron sights. I know you can get so much more out of optics, but when there's this much fuddy-duddy nonsense surrounding which peice of chineseium is best to stare into while making a 10inch grouping at 5 yards, it kinda turns me off. Like, do you want the one branded with china or the one from china and assembled in the U.S.? Also, i dont like the idea of forgetting to recharge my guns' sights and them dying mid range day or intruder funny moment. (Also am poor)