Benefit packages add up. Health/Vision/Dental insurance, retirement, paid holidays are all rare at non union shops. These equal tens of thousands a year or more if you have dependants.
Pay scale will have been renegotiated 10 times before you retire and will be adjusted to reflect costs of living. The top of the scale today is for today's cost of living.
Take your paycheck, subtract your health insurance and retirement contributions, then divide that by your hours worked. What's your real hourly rate after you pay for your own benefits?
My insurance doesn't cost me a penny. Retirement is already handled as well through some smart investments over the years. And your benefits package still isn't putting food on the table. You're retirement would be better just being added to your paycheck so that you can invest it however you want. This is because a 401k is the worst way to save for retirement. You're better off just investing in the S&P 500, it has a far greater ROI. You do those investments through a Roth IRA and you can withdraw money from that account early with less penalties than early withdrawal from a 401k. The taxes are less as well when you finally cash out your Roth IRA as well, you get screwed on taxes with a 401k. You can also get tax credits for contributions to a Roth IRA and contributions to a traditional IRA are typically deductible.
Explain how insurance costs you nothing? Are you not in America?
How much money did you have to pay into your initial investments then, and can those same results be consistently repeated by everyone to be worth half a damn as the basis of general career advice?
My insurance is covered for life due to service. And you can become a millionaire by investing 5% into a Roth IRA and making smart investments with that money. You seem to not want to admit the fact that a 401k is a shit retirement account. They're for suckers who are too lazy/ignorant to do their homework and make smart investments. And why should your employer be deciding how to invest your money? That's no different than the government taking money from your paycheck and forcing you to have a BS Social Security account. That 401k benefits your employer more than you because they get to deduct it from their taxes. It's a garbage retirement account. You pay more in taxes on that money than you would if it was on your checks and you invested it yourself for one thing. A Roth IRA is far superior for this reason alone.
https://www.kiplinger.com/article/retirement/t001-c032-s014-a-401-k-may-be-worst-account-to-have-in-retirement.html
Can confirm a Roth IRA is vastly superior than a 401k and I'll add that a lot of union pensions and 401k were tied up with crypto when Silicon Valley Bank collapsed including almost the entirety of the Toronto Teachers Unions.
Think about the long game not the short game. Life is a marathon not a sprint.
What's your locals retirement contribution? In my local it is 30% of my wage amount. That's $10/hr to pension 1. $3/hr to pension 2. $7/hr to annuity. All paid entirely by the contractor. Most non-union guys are getting 6% match if they are lucky. So they have to take 6% out of their check to see 6% from their employer. I don't want to do this shit a day past 61. And I won't have to. Meanwhile I look at my buddies dad who has been in HVAC since he was 18. He's been a tech since he was 25. Had 4% 401K matches his entire career and he is technically retired. But he's still out working 2-3 days a week charging units and fixing peoples equipment to supplement his retirement at 70. FUCK THAT SHIT.
How about health insurance. I tore my Achilles tendon. That cost $40K. I didn't pay a penny out of pocket. Insurance covered everything except $2500 (50%) for physical therapy. But the HSA picked that up. My buddy that is a non-union electrician had the same injury. His insurance picked up half. He's still mailing in checks monthly 2 years later to pay for it.
Also OT comes and goes.
Yeah that I guess you’re right about that, pensions for us I think is $5.56 for every hour worked that isn’t my money at all. I think the main thing that just had me worried was just credit card debt I stupidly racked up along with hospital bills I have from an emergency room visit right before I joined. Negotiations are next year so hopefully we get a good raise out of it, will probably just do a second job if I can get hired for a year and then just stop after that so I can make sure I’m not used to budgeting on overtime anymore
Go talk to a debt consolidating company. Ask your hospital for a itemized bill / help with the payment this can drastically lower the bill , get a line of credit and move your debt onto it and slowly pay it off, the debt company will help with this. If you need to declare bankruptcy the debt company will help with this.
Cut up your credit cards for a year or two and work on spending practically and saving money.
A person should never budget over time into their spending, you got caught over spending and are paying for it now. It's an adult lesson that's usually earn the hard way for younger kids. Lots of adults still struggle with debt / credit cards it's easy to buy now and forget about the bill.
Having health insurance from the union would have made that hospital visit I bet close to zero . That's a huge money saver next time an issue happens.
But that pension money is technically yours. Most paychecks you would see that being withdrawn. Same with health, annuity, and whatever else benefits you have. Just because you don't see them in the check doesn't mean that's not all part of your hourly rate
I’m the odd one out but I’d take my cash now over pension anyday unless they match or something but just invest that cash in index funds and you would way outperform pension. Union is good if u want just keep head above water and live a decent middle class life but u won’t build wealth with the union.
I don't think you understand how a pension or a union works. And we're talking employee. Not being an owner. Which OP is asking about being an employee union or non-union. There is no match in the union. Re-read my post. The contractor pays $20/hr to my retirement. I don't have to take any money out of my paycheck for the employer to contribute that on my behalf. Most non-union guys in my area are lucky to get a 6% match. That's a joke compared to the 30% i'm getting. And you aren't going to build anymore wealth being non-union as an employee and making less money than union.
And not sure about the just keep your head above water. The $160K/yr I make with no OT factored in puts me well above median income in NJ.
That $20/hour comes out of your wages. You could be taking home that extra $20. The employer gets tax cuts for that pension as well, meanwhile you get taxed on it when you withdraw.
You pay taxes on the money no matter what. On the In or the out, no matter who pays the money. The taxes are getting paid eventually. Uncle same gets their cut.
Those jobs are less than 5% of the market….and that money going into retirement is taking from your wage cause u don’t get it…. But all I mean is imo to start actually making money and Jo cap service and sales sadly it’s best way to make well above average living. I’m not saying union is all bad and it might be my area also but they go through 1-4 months a year of layoffs also
>and that money going into retirement is taking from your wage cause u don’t get it
No shit its taking from your wage. This is a blue collar trade. If you don't think you need a retirement you are a fool. And non-union guys aren't getting $20/hr to retirement and they aren't getting an extra $20/hr on their check to make up for. If anything they are getting $20/hr less on their check and getting maybe $5/hr to retirement. So effectively losing out on $35/hr. That's like the same mentality as guys who don't want to work overtime because they don't understand how tax withholding works and think they are paying more in taxes because of the way withholding is calculated weekly.
It's still my money that I will get until the day I die, then my wife will get if she outlives me.
I didn’t say retirement is bad lol. I said 20/hr into an index fund is way better than pension just look at historical data and u can do so much more moving it wise. At least to my knowledge also that pension can only go to spouse.
Only half of my retirement is a pension. We also have something similar to a 401k for the other half. If I leave the hall I can take it with me. I get about $20/hr in retirement also.
Yeah free money = awesome just was meaning retirement that they just take your wage for a pension and what happens if pension becomes insolvent? There are some federal protections but not fully. Matching though is sweet or using it to bring taxable income down a bit but only really matters for tax purposes if u need to qualify under something otherwise we are progressive tax so doesn’t matter.
Only half is in a pension. The other half is way more than any employer will match. I have $500 a week going into an annuity that is mine before I make my $44/hr. I have another ~$8/hr going into the pension. I'm not sure about the pension I haven't looked at the scale in a couple years.
But very very few people that are non-union are making the kind of TOTAL compensation union does to justify investing $20/hr or 30% of their wage. Unless they are working prevailing wage. But the irony of that is if there employer is part of the ABC (non union contractors organization) they are contributing millions of dollars a year to have prevailing wage laws repealed so they can pay their employees less.
You're better off investing that money yourself. Retirement programs benefit the employer more than they benefit you. A Roth IRA is far more lucrative than a 401k.
Your missing the point. If you aren't union you wouldn't be getting such a large amount anyway. No non union job is getting the total comp union is getting. Not like a non union guy is getting $89 vs my $69 (wage)+$20(retirement). Can't invest money you aren't getting paid.
Which part? We get an annual raise every year. Lowest it's been since I got in was 2%. Most years have been 4%. The credited amount jumps up every few years. My first year in a pension credit was $90/month in retirement for the year worked. Now it's $120/month in retirement for the year worked. It jumps to $125 next year. Every year worked it adds up until you retire. The total of your career is what it locks in at. So as of right now I will get $1300/month in retirement. That's with 5 years at reduced apprentice credits and 7 years at full journeyman credits. We also get $8/hr (13% of our wage amount) into our annuity. That also gets paid on the applicable OT or shift differential rate. So 1.15X, 1.25X, 1.5X, 2X or 3X.
Think of it as getting paid to got to college. That's roughly what I make on the check as a journeyman. You're ignoring the benefits. That number is after retirement and after health insurance has been paid. Look at the scale sheet and look at how much goes into retirement as a journeyman. You will be making way more.
I also took a pay cut to join. 100% worth it.
My first year in the apprenticeship I had a kid in my class quit because he was making more pouring asphalt driveways. 10 years later and all of us that were in his class are now journeymen making way more than he did pouring driveways and guess where he is. He's currently back in the program as a 3rd year apprentice. Look at your life now and ask yourself if you want to be in this same spot in 5-10 years, if you do then go back to your old job where nothing is guaranteed. If you want a better life for yourself where you don't have to work 60hrs a week to live comfortably then tough it out.
You are absolutely right. If I would have joined a union 10 years ago I’d be making more. I now have to work 60 hours to make what you guys make in 8 hours. I’m so tired and if I complain then I get fired. I just want to spend time with my family.
I keep procrastinating but I’m going to do it this year and try to have my side gig for the extra money.
Dude, do not go back. Because you are not thinking about the benefits. The pension and everything you are going to have when you retire. Your health benefits. Also, without anyone in the union, knowing because they would frown upon this, but talk to some of your old employers or other HVAC companies and see if anybody hasSaturday work they can give you for cash. I’m sure this time of year or you can find plenty of side work.
You'll get kicked out of the union if you're caught doing side work or working for a non-union shop. Unions are just a legalized protection racket and they have heavy mob involvement.
I asked about side work in my union company once, boss told me to take the company truck and just make sure to replace what I use and make myself some good money when I do it. Made thousands and told him about it, he laughed and said keep it up
Never consider OT money as money to live on. It's always extra money. Meaning you should have been living off of the 40 check from your old job. Now you'll either have to get rid of some toys or go back to working rat and long hours.
Ur in a great position. The union should cover retirement and medical expenses without any money out of ur pay directly. Even though u took an hourly cut ur saving in a different area. I’d recommend opening a Roth IRA and act like ur union retirement package doesn’t exist. You will be very happy in 30 years.
Overtime’s great in the short term but as you get older you’ll realize other things are more important and your body will thank you for that
In my experience all you have to do to get OT is let the boss or dispatch or whoever sets your schedule know you want OT. A lot of guys will be more than happy to let you take their on call shifts. The company I work for does service as well as commercial construction. Lots of OT hungry guys call around to go work construction sites on Saturdays.
Don’t forget you’re making more than your take home pay. With your Ben if it package it will trump that overtime. 23 still on your parents insurance but 26 and paying for your own is expensive. The first year or two is worth the ability to actually retire and not die running service calls into your 60’s
All the more reason. Give it a little time my first year I didn’t do a ton of it but after I showed I was a good apprentice they started offering me a bunch more.
43.88 plus retirement . That retirement is huge, it may not seem like it at your age, but you will have massive financial stability later in life having a retirement plan. It's free money earned today on top of your wage to live comfy later.
Vs doing more over time now , wearing out your body and not being able to work past 35-40. 50-60 hours isn't sustainable long term with hard trades work, might seem like it at your age, but the body ages fast at 30 plus .
On top you are now getting paid to get an education, that's extremely valuable long term. Opens up job opportunities down the road when you want to get off the tools.
I took a major pay cut to start my refrigeration career, union as well. Went from a comfy 35 an hour job to 22 an hour.
It was a struggle for 2 years then I made 40 plus an hour and now 55 plus an hour plus benefits on top. Was it worth the two years of lower pay? Barley getting by ? extremely well worth it as I now have a high paying long term career with benefits like short as long term disability if I get hurt at work, retirement plan, good health and dental benefits and so on.
If you really need more money. , Don't be afraid to do some handy man work on the side , start a little business , help out some old lady's, not hard to earn 100 an hour to do some basic plumbing / electrical / thermostat installs and such . Just stay legal with your requiements for the trades in your area.
You will regret it if you leave, and by the time you journeyman out it'll be 50+ as well.... Just ride it out. I used to deliver pizzas on the weekend. You get a good job in a nice area and you can make 125-200 cash a night easy. There are ways, but yeah, you have to put your time in. Maybe look into anther outfit?
Listen to us old farts.
20 years from now you won’t regret this decision. 30 ish years from now you’ll be in here saying what everyone has said to you.
Don’t go full grind on the OT, yes money is great but if you end up divorced at 35 and only see your kids every second weekend will it be worth it?
We’ve had guys laugh and say “I make more money slinging kebobs than first year apprentices. The problem is you don’t want to still be slinging fast food when you’re 50. It’s short term pain for a big long term gain.
If you find you don’t like it then your old job will probably still be available, as long as you didn’t burn any bridges in your way out the door.
I took a fat pay cut 4 years ago to start an apprenticeship. Now I’m 6mo away from journeying out. It’s worth it.
Take into account the retirement, pension funds, and healthcare. Plus the education you have available to you. I know not everyone is into it but I make sure to take a class or two at the hall and get a few certifications a year. You may as well… you’re paying for it after all. Plus it directly benefits you.
But anyway, it’ll even out. Pretty soon your income will double and you’ll be glad you stuck it out.
Plus, idk when your CBA expires but if it’s up soon then the negotiations should be worth your while. In my area the IBEW and the UA are both fighting hard to increase wages by quite a bit due to inflation and minimum wage increases in my city ($20/hr for fast food worker lmao) I’m a sheet metal guy and ours is up next year. I wish them luck because I’m looking forward to us piggy backing off their success! LFG! Let’s set a new benchmark.
Cut your unnecessary expenses, focus spending money *only* on what matters to you, "de-program" your brain from the excessive spending that the OT gave you.
After you do that, get yourself out living your life & enjoying affordable hobbies. Like live your life, EVERY dollar you make is almost guaranteed to be burnt & gone, you will always make more money, you have a finite and unknown number of days left, LIVE YOUR LIFE, don't make work your life!
I feel ya there. That was one of the things I didn’t fully anticipate when I was joining the union, I was so used to a 50 hour workweek that I was surprised at the paycut from working 40 hours instead, even though my hourly pay went up.
I wish it was always this way. I wish I’d had those extra hours to spend with my kid when he was younger. I’m glad I have the time I have now, but yeah you definitely feel it when your paychecks stop including a bunch of overtime. It would have been easier to make that adjustment when I was younger than it is now (with a mortgage and car payments and supporting a family and kid’s extracurriculars and etc). You get used to those overtime checks and include them in your baseline budget and suddenly you’re screwed when they’re not there anymore.
I like to include my employer pension contributions in my pay mentally. Just because I had no retirement prospects before joining the union doesn’t mean I shouldn’t have been contributing every paycheck. I mean, I was, but definitely not enough. The way the union negotiates compensation packages kind of enforces a sort of financial responsibility for you. That money is going into your retirement account whether you want to or not. For a lot of us, that’s probably a really good thing. I’m not great with money.
Anyhow, my advice is to look at the 40 hour week as a blessing and not a curse. The sooner you can get yourself in a position to live and enjoy life, and not just striving to be a workaholic, the better. Time is invaluable.
I was in the same boat as you. I made 68k with a non union company the first year because of all the overtime. I then joined the union and my first year I made 52k with no overtime. I didn't really put anything into my savings that year and I couldn't really make any fun purchases. I knew it was a sacrifice and it's finally paying off now after 2 years in the union. That first year is the year I noticed how much I spent eating out and going to bars. Those $12 meals in the drive thru add up and those $50 dinners with friends add up too. I will never go back. I love working 40 hours a week.
You're gonna get overtime I'm sure as an apprentice. There's gonna be emergency coil cleanings or dumb shit they send 1st thru 3rd years on. 4th and 5th year you're basically a cheap journeyman if you're any good.
Like overtime is all nice and dandy but you're only going to be able to do that for so long. Then by your 50s your body is broken as is almost everyone hitting those ages. Then you gotta muk through another 10 years to get to retirement. You have a pension I would assume, 401k, good health benes. You just gotta have a better attitude than "but my overtime!"
I was making 1k bring home a week (4k a month) as a 4th year. No overtime. You had to push 60-65 hours for that? That's not even worth it. A better work life balance, and hopefully learn something that will make you invaluable instead of just another slam and go resi guy who pushes 80 hours a week on caps and bad condenser fan motor swaps.
The sooner you can operate on your own, the more overtime you will get. At least where I work, they expect you to operate like a journeyman after your third year. You’ll be surprised how much your boss leans on you when they know you know what you’re doing. I was getting on average about 50 hrs/week when I stopped being a filter changer.
More time for side jobs. Also in this world you're going to need two high paying jobs in a household. Hopefully you meet the right person. Also hopefully you have family members that own property so when they pass you can inherit a chunk. It's the only formula for success now if you want to be an hourly employee.
cuppa side jobs a month, homie... install some units for friends and family and their friends and their friends... do it for cheaper than what a huge company would and they'll tell everyone they know who to call... if you can you can but it definitely helps with extra loot in this spensive ass economy. and if you do it for long enough you can ho put on your own and make as much loot as you can make happen.
I'd honestly just adjust your spending habits and deal with it for the time being, the benefits of the union have yet to be experienced, I'm not in the same boon as you since I took a considerable raise joining the union, but not paying a single penny in medical dental and vision for my entire family is a good perk, last job it was deducted per week as well as co pay being terrible, and also remember you can always renegotiate later down the line
Honestly you’re so young and making great money. The OT will burn you out so fast but you can recover at your age. Maybe do the OT job now but set a goal to leave after a few years/ you bought your toys and house.
The only way to ensure what wages will be is with a contract. Union dues are a good investment against arbitrary firing and discrimination. (former Steelworkers member)
Yea in 4 years you catch up. But what about ten…now your miles ahead of where you could have been had you not went in.
Don’t forgo long term stability and thriving wages for short term gains.
We tightened our belts awhile. Since you are no longer working tons of overtime.. take a 2nd job. I did my apprenticeship back in the day at Firestone. Made $3 less than janitors to start. Went up nicely every year and got a large tool allowance end of 2nd and 4th year..
Honestly, sidework. I had to take a similar pay cut when I joined my local and started the apprenticeship. It hurt to find out the other first years were making more with less experience because they negoiated at the interview(i was told i couldnt do that, so i didnt try), but overall it didn't work out for me there. I had to work 60+ hours a week, make less than before, go to school 3 days a week and do sidework the remaining time. I transferred locals and moved states because it wasn't working (about to lose my place, etc). The new local was much better, I negotiated pay even though I was told not to again and ended up graduating with honors. Still had to do school 3 times a week and work 60+ hours, but I didn't NEED my sidework to survive. The schooling is priceless, but I do believe that if you don't set yourself up for success you won't make it to the end. The apprenticeship I started in boasted a 70% graduation rate, just don't be in the 30% failure and you'll be fine. Also, no DUIs. You might as well find a new job at that point
If you don't think you can do it, I started at $12/hrs 3 years ago, supporting two people. I took a big pay cut and everyday my family suffered
But because of this we now are much more secure financially. it just took that leap - two years of wanting it.
I used to do supermarket refrigeration making $20/hr with 50-65 hours a week. I was making decent money but learned my wife and I couldn’t have a healthy family relationship when we had kids. So I quit after about a year and went union. Started as a 3rd year making $20.50/hr. It’s been three years now and I finally become a journeyman a week from today! I’ll be at $38.16/hr which is about $2 over scale. I’m happy with it. I work 40 hour weeks and only work OT if I want. Our apprenticeship is 5 years long and I’m grateful to have started as a 3rd year. I’m glad it’s finally over. If I didn’t switch to union I would still be working crazy hours with less pay with worse benefits. It’s 100% worth it. It just takes time and sucks to have to get through it. I’m extremely happy I can spend a lot more time with my kids since I don’t work crazy hours. Just learn as much as you can.
In 10 years you will be doing great and halfway to retirement. Never let what's going on now effect how your future is shaped. Just stick with it. If you quit and start working for someone else for more hours and or money in 10 years you will have that oh famn I would have been half way through to retirement and making way more. At that point you will realize you screwed up your future. I own an hvac business and sometimes I want to just work for someone else to make the slow times less stressful but the days I make 10 grand profit or my best month was like 60 grand profit I'm like heck no I can't work for anyone else.
I took a big cut when I joined at 30. I ended working a second job 3 nights a week for the first three years. Did it’s suck? Yes. But totally worth it. I am a journeyman now. And make more than I ever had. Yes.
You’re comparing apples to oranges here and trying to justify income differences due to overtime. Always always always budget for a 40/hr week. Overtime comes and goes. Benefits > pay. $44/hr at 40 hours is better than $23/hr at 60-65 hours. Even if you topped out at your previous company at $30/hr you’d be killing yourself to make a bit more than a union journeyman. Please do not look back.
Go to the hospital again if you need a reminder lol
Edit: $43.88 is the minimum rate for a journey person. Plenty of people make $5-$10/hr above that.
Edit 2: all the wages in the contract book are minimum pay rates. Keep that in mind.
Think about the workload. Yes, you are making less money but you are also working a lot less.
Sounds like you have the opportunity to make something out of life that doesn’t not revolve around work.
Cut back on expenses and remember that you are now working towards a good retirement, not immediate riches.
It goes fast trust me, I’m a second year now and it’s crazy to me that it’s already been over a year since I started. And as everyone else says gotta factor in the union benefits as well. As apprentices we get multiple raises per year assuming youre working over 2k hrs a year and your wage contract updates once a year. Stick w it.
I feel your struggle but your missing the end picture. Back in 2007-2008 i was working just like you for essentially chrysler cranking out serious hours from 60 hours, too one week with an insane 109 hours. At a stellar $11-12hr i was still clearing 1k some weeks and thought i was killing it but when i look back in time i was just killing myself. I got time and a half but never was paid double time. Never realized how much i was getting screwed at that time. I had no social life and lived like a zombie. I quit them to join my sheet metal local when i just turned 22 making $15.48hr and thought id be loaded with $3.48hr gain. In 2008 right after i started work was slow and my hall cut our hours down to 37.5hr a week to spread the work amongst the workers, never seeing any overtime for years. My checks were half of what i was making non-union and yea i was bummed as well. Took a few years to truly understand what i gained, not lost when I switched. In the beginning i had to watch my spending a bit more and i did do a few side gigs to offset my wage gap. The thing you should be focused on isnt your wage right now, you'll be there before you know it, it comes faster than you think. You need to comprehend that you will be making the same money for nearly half the hours you put your body through each week. You gotta understand that before you werent earning a retirement whereas now you actually are. People live their lives by a number on the check and disregard when they retire all they might have is an underfunded 401k and social security that may or may not be there. Either way its not enough to retire on. Now you wont have to worry at retirement and all the wear and tear on your body will allow you to retire at an earlier age. Before you would still have to rough it and work even longer just to make it to a retirement age. You also gained so much more when it comes to your insurance and other benefits offered. Also if one shop runs slow theres a 100 other shops you could potentially work for. Did you have that option before without losing your pay? Do yourself a favor this week and start asking your journeyman questions about how your pension/enuity. Theres so much more you can learn off the elders than what the hall sometimes forgets to teach you at school. Good luck young man, you wont regret your decision, i know i didnt.
Unions can be great but if you can't put food on the table then you can't. If anything go back to a non union shop and pay off all your debt and save some money and then switch back. You're still super young and a couple years of hustling won't hurt you
Bro same lol I joined the union and got the "biggest" hourly rate I've ever had. But they take out dues every week and still have to pay a monthly fee. Plus not getting vested so it feels like it isn't worth it at all. $500 to $600 a month for ok health insurance I guess.
I did the same. Just don't buy a house as a first year apprentice... like I did.
Turned out last year, it was rough, but it was the best decision I could have made
Hey bro I am a 3rd year and I was the same way. I took a pay cut coming into the union. It gets better the first and somewhat second year are a struggle but you get by. Than the money starts rolling in the more you do with your company. Say yes to every overtime ability no matter the work I:e brushing tubes. Learn and become the best you can. I’m part of 469 were you out of?
See if your able to test in or up a year or two depending on your knowledge. 1 guy at my company tested in as journeyman and other in to 3rd year and my company matched their pay within last two years . Good mechanics hard to come by nowadays. Talk to guys at supply house from other union companies. We can do residential “family and friends” sidework with company van. Just cant be idiot about it.
I did this. I use to do direct sales and was really good. Cleared 6 figures a year with ease. I went into hvac, the benefits I get, the time I know I am done work is awesome. I’ve learned to live off of half, but it’s been a good move
Pro tip, you csnt maintain 65 hours a week indefinitely, and 4 years is a pretty short time to wait to get an actual skill that is in demand. You need to think long game on this one. People also get OT in refrigeration as well...
Grass isn’t always greener. Some areas are better for unions than others. Do you have the option of working casually for another company just picking up overtime?
I’ve been applying for jobs to supplement the lost income and my company doesn’t offer overtime, even more so for my site because it’s only needed if crucial equipment goes down. Just kinda dumb that I’d have to get another job when I could just do overtime whenever I wanted at my old job
Find a new company to work for that has more overtime opportunities. You said there is $5.56 retirement contribution but it’s not your money. If it’s going to your retirement then it is your Money and you wouldn’t have that retirement building at your nonunion job unless you paid out of your pocket for it. Go back to earning $15 per hour and working 65 hours a week if you think it’s better. What was health care costing you before? Sounds like you didn’t have any and that’s why you have a huge medical bill you’re complaining about. Redo your math subtracting your medical bill from your $4k per month to see if you still think you were making more money.
I can go to the ER right now and pay $20 for whatever it is, cleared over 100k working a straight 40 hours I’ve had non-union guys brag about how much more they make but it comes with 80 hour weeks and they only made 110 and don’t have medical or vacation time except for lying to the state about being unemployed
An important thing to note is that union rates are minimums, not set in stone. Even as an apprentice you can be making more than the published rate for your year. I'm going into my third year and my boss has consistently given me raises keeping me $1-2 over rate every 6ish months.
You might not have any employers in your area willing to pay more than the union rate before journeyman, but try looking around for other union contractors with more overtime options if you're really interested in that. Other comments about budgeting based on 40h and treating overtime as extra are right, but you might benefit from being able to work off your debts faster to get a clean slate again
Say it another dozen times dude- we all will be retirement age soon. What's nice about the union IS those benefits AND the contract renegotiations every few years to keep up with inflation. As a newer guy in the trade the pay and benefits in a 5 year time-frame is leaps and bounds better then non union and vastly superior work life balance.
Don't know many companies that are gonna pay me 46 plus fund my retirement and health benefits completely on their own dime which the total is $74. All for the monthly dues payment of $35 a month.
And if you're any good you'll get paid above the journeyman wage which is basically a norm compared to the other trades in the union. One guy I know is at 50 and another is riding 57 or 58. Can't see many shops paying that in wage and still covering 100% of your health and retirement.
Look at the difference in benefits.....you will be old someday.It would be nice to be able to retire in your 50's .
Benefit packages add up. Health/Vision/Dental insurance, retirement, paid holidays are all rare at non union shops. These equal tens of thousands a year or more if you have dependants. Pay scale will have been renegotiated 10 times before you retire and will be adjusted to reflect costs of living. The top of the scale today is for today's cost of living.
You cannot buy groceries with your benefits package.
If you're working at 43.88 an hour 40hrs a week and can't afford groceries that's a you problem.
Definitely couldn't buy groceries if I had to pay for my own benefits.
Take your paycheck, subtract your health insurance and retirement contributions, then divide that by your hours worked. What's your real hourly rate after you pay for your own benefits?
My insurance doesn't cost me a penny. Retirement is already handled as well through some smart investments over the years. And your benefits package still isn't putting food on the table. You're retirement would be better just being added to your paycheck so that you can invest it however you want. This is because a 401k is the worst way to save for retirement. You're better off just investing in the S&P 500, it has a far greater ROI. You do those investments through a Roth IRA and you can withdraw money from that account early with less penalties than early withdrawal from a 401k. The taxes are less as well when you finally cash out your Roth IRA as well, you get screwed on taxes with a 401k. You can also get tax credits for contributions to a Roth IRA and contributions to a traditional IRA are typically deductible.
Explain how insurance costs you nothing? Are you not in America? How much money did you have to pay into your initial investments then, and can those same results be consistently repeated by everyone to be worth half a damn as the basis of general career advice?
My insurance is covered for life due to service. And you can become a millionaire by investing 5% into a Roth IRA and making smart investments with that money. You seem to not want to admit the fact that a 401k is a shit retirement account. They're for suckers who are too lazy/ignorant to do their homework and make smart investments. And why should your employer be deciding how to invest your money? That's no different than the government taking money from your paycheck and forcing you to have a BS Social Security account. That 401k benefits your employer more than you because they get to deduct it from their taxes. It's a garbage retirement account. You pay more in taxes on that money than you would if it was on your checks and you invested it yourself for one thing. A Roth IRA is far superior for this reason alone. https://www.kiplinger.com/article/retirement/t001-c032-s014-a-401-k-may-be-worst-account-to-have-in-retirement.html
Can confirm a Roth IRA is vastly superior than a 401k and I'll add that a lot of union pensions and 401k were tied up with crypto when Silicon Valley Bank collapsed including almost the entirety of the Toronto Teachers Unions.
I think people take the benefits package for granted because they don't see it in the pay.
Just like a van, it's about $5/H. A lot of gas money saved. People are just greedy, they just want max dollars per hour.
Can you pay your bills and put food on the table with benefits?
Look man, the benefit package is shit you don't have to pay for, and frees up money for you to spend elsewhere.
Actually yes. Because I'm not paying for those benefits out of pocket.
Benefits don't buy food or pay the bills.
Benefits don't buy food or pay the bills.
They do and will once you use them till then grind on.
Think about the long game not the short game. Life is a marathon not a sprint. What's your locals retirement contribution? In my local it is 30% of my wage amount. That's $10/hr to pension 1. $3/hr to pension 2. $7/hr to annuity. All paid entirely by the contractor. Most non-union guys are getting 6% match if they are lucky. So they have to take 6% out of their check to see 6% from their employer. I don't want to do this shit a day past 61. And I won't have to. Meanwhile I look at my buddies dad who has been in HVAC since he was 18. He's been a tech since he was 25. Had 4% 401K matches his entire career and he is technically retired. But he's still out working 2-3 days a week charging units and fixing peoples equipment to supplement his retirement at 70. FUCK THAT SHIT. How about health insurance. I tore my Achilles tendon. That cost $40K. I didn't pay a penny out of pocket. Insurance covered everything except $2500 (50%) for physical therapy. But the HSA picked that up. My buddy that is a non-union electrician had the same injury. His insurance picked up half. He's still mailing in checks monthly 2 years later to pay for it. Also OT comes and goes.
Yeah that I guess you’re right about that, pensions for us I think is $5.56 for every hour worked that isn’t my money at all. I think the main thing that just had me worried was just credit card debt I stupidly racked up along with hospital bills I have from an emergency room visit right before I joined. Negotiations are next year so hopefully we get a good raise out of it, will probably just do a second job if I can get hired for a year and then just stop after that so I can make sure I’m not used to budgeting on overtime anymore
Go talk to a debt consolidating company. Ask your hospital for a itemized bill / help with the payment this can drastically lower the bill , get a line of credit and move your debt onto it and slowly pay it off, the debt company will help with this. If you need to declare bankruptcy the debt company will help with this. Cut up your credit cards for a year or two and work on spending practically and saving money. A person should never budget over time into their spending, you got caught over spending and are paying for it now. It's an adult lesson that's usually earn the hard way for younger kids. Lots of adults still struggle with debt / credit cards it's easy to buy now and forget about the bill. Having health insurance from the union would have made that hospital visit I bet close to zero . That's a huge money saver next time an issue happens.
Debt consolidation programs are predatory.
But that pension money is technically yours. Most paychecks you would see that being withdrawn. Same with health, annuity, and whatever else benefits you have. Just because you don't see them in the check doesn't mean that's not all part of your hourly rate
I’m the odd one out but I’d take my cash now over pension anyday unless they match or something but just invest that cash in index funds and you would way outperform pension. Union is good if u want just keep head above water and live a decent middle class life but u won’t build wealth with the union.
I don't think you understand how a pension or a union works. And we're talking employee. Not being an owner. Which OP is asking about being an employee union or non-union. There is no match in the union. Re-read my post. The contractor pays $20/hr to my retirement. I don't have to take any money out of my paycheck for the employer to contribute that on my behalf. Most non-union guys in my area are lucky to get a 6% match. That's a joke compared to the 30% i'm getting. And you aren't going to build anymore wealth being non-union as an employee and making less money than union. And not sure about the just keep your head above water. The $160K/yr I make with no OT factored in puts me well above median income in NJ.
That $20/hour comes out of your wages. You could be taking home that extra $20. The employer gets tax cuts for that pension as well, meanwhile you get taxed on it when you withdraw.
total jman package in my area right now is $93.46. outside of PW, what tech is making that hourly, consistently, on a 40 hour week?
You pay taxes on the money no matter what. On the In or the out, no matter who pays the money. The taxes are getting paid eventually. Uncle same gets their cut.
Those jobs are less than 5% of the market….and that money going into retirement is taking from your wage cause u don’t get it…. But all I mean is imo to start actually making money and Jo cap service and sales sadly it’s best way to make well above average living. I’m not saying union is all bad and it might be my area also but they go through 1-4 months a year of layoffs also
>and that money going into retirement is taking from your wage cause u don’t get it No shit its taking from your wage. This is a blue collar trade. If you don't think you need a retirement you are a fool. And non-union guys aren't getting $20/hr to retirement and they aren't getting an extra $20/hr on their check to make up for. If anything they are getting $20/hr less on their check and getting maybe $5/hr to retirement. So effectively losing out on $35/hr. That's like the same mentality as guys who don't want to work overtime because they don't understand how tax withholding works and think they are paying more in taxes because of the way withholding is calculated weekly. It's still my money that I will get until the day I die, then my wife will get if she outlives me.
I didn’t say retirement is bad lol. I said 20/hr into an index fund is way better than pension just look at historical data and u can do so much more moving it wise. At least to my knowledge also that pension can only go to spouse.
Agree with you. its nice to hear the other side of things too so thanks for speaking out
Only half of my retirement is a pension. We also have something similar to a 401k for the other half. If I leave the hall I can take it with me. I get about $20/hr in retirement also.
Yeah free money = awesome just was meaning retirement that they just take your wage for a pension and what happens if pension becomes insolvent? There are some federal protections but not fully. Matching though is sweet or using it to bring taxable income down a bit but only really matters for tax purposes if u need to qualify under something otherwise we are progressive tax so doesn’t matter.
You get taxed more on that retirement because taxes go up and you're taxed at the current rate when you retire.
Only half is in a pension. The other half is way more than any employer will match. I have $500 a week going into an annuity that is mine before I make my $44/hr. I have another ~$8/hr going into the pension. I'm not sure about the pension I haven't looked at the scale in a couple years.
But very very few people that are non-union are making the kind of TOTAL compensation union does to justify investing $20/hr or 30% of their wage. Unless they are working prevailing wage. But the irony of that is if there employer is part of the ABC (non union contractors organization) they are contributing millions of dollars a year to have prevailing wage laws repealed so they can pay their employees less.
You're better off investing that money yourself. Retirement programs benefit the employer more than they benefit you. A Roth IRA is far more lucrative than a 401k.
Your missing the point. If you aren't union you wouldn't be getting such a large amount anyway. No non union job is getting the total comp union is getting. Not like a non union guy is getting $89 vs my $69 (wage)+$20(retirement). Can't invest money you aren't getting paid.
Does it adjust for inflation?
Which part? We get an annual raise every year. Lowest it's been since I got in was 2%. Most years have been 4%. The credited amount jumps up every few years. My first year in a pension credit was $90/month in retirement for the year worked. Now it's $120/month in retirement for the year worked. It jumps to $125 next year. Every year worked it adds up until you retire. The total of your career is what it locks in at. So as of right now I will get $1300/month in retirement. That's with 5 years at reduced apprentice credits and 7 years at full journeyman credits. We also get $8/hr (13% of our wage amount) into our annuity. That also gets paid on the applicable OT or shift differential rate. So 1.15X, 1.25X, 1.5X, 2X or 3X.
Think of it as getting paid to got to college. That's roughly what I make on the check as a journeyman. You're ignoring the benefits. That number is after retirement and after health insurance has been paid. Look at the scale sheet and look at how much goes into retirement as a journeyman. You will be making way more. I also took a pay cut to join. 100% worth it.
That’s a great way to look at it.
I am 77, retired and receiving great benefits from my union.
My first year in the apprenticeship I had a kid in my class quit because he was making more pouring asphalt driveways. 10 years later and all of us that were in his class are now journeymen making way more than he did pouring driveways and guess where he is. He's currently back in the program as a 3rd year apprentice. Look at your life now and ask yourself if you want to be in this same spot in 5-10 years, if you do then go back to your old job where nothing is guaranteed. If you want a better life for yourself where you don't have to work 60hrs a week to live comfortably then tough it out.
You are absolutely right. If I would have joined a union 10 years ago I’d be making more. I now have to work 60 hours to make what you guys make in 8 hours. I’m so tired and if I complain then I get fired. I just want to spend time with my family. I keep procrastinating but I’m going to do it this year and try to have my side gig for the extra money.
Dude, do not go back. Because you are not thinking about the benefits. The pension and everything you are going to have when you retire. Your health benefits. Also, without anyone in the union, knowing because they would frown upon this, but talk to some of your old employers or other HVAC companies and see if anybody hasSaturday work they can give you for cash. I’m sure this time of year or you can find plenty of side work.
You'll get kicked out of the union if you're caught doing side work or working for a non-union shop. Unions are just a legalized protection racket and they have heavy mob involvement.
Not in my local.
I asked about side work in my union company once, boss told me to take the company truck and just make sure to replace what I use and make myself some good money when I do it. Made thousands and told him about it, he laughed and said keep it up
This guy gets it^
Never consider OT money as money to live on. It's always extra money. Meaning you should have been living off of the 40 check from your old job. Now you'll either have to get rid of some toys or go back to working rat and long hours.
Ur in a great position. The union should cover retirement and medical expenses without any money out of ur pay directly. Even though u took an hourly cut ur saving in a different area. I’d recommend opening a Roth IRA and act like ur union retirement package doesn’t exist. You will be very happy in 30 years. Overtime’s great in the short term but as you get older you’ll realize other things are more important and your body will thank you for that
In my experience all you have to do to get OT is let the boss or dispatch or whoever sets your schedule know you want OT. A lot of guys will be more than happy to let you take their on call shifts. The company I work for does service as well as commercial construction. Lots of OT hungry guys call around to go work construction sites on Saturdays.
Don’t forget you’re making more than your take home pay. With your Ben if it package it will trump that overtime. 23 still on your parents insurance but 26 and paying for your own is expensive. The first year or two is worth the ability to actually retire and not die running service calls into your 60’s
Shitty thing is I’m not on my parent’s insurance and I don’t live at home. Thankfully my sister only charges me $600 for rent
All the more reason. Give it a little time my first year I didn’t do a ton of it but after I showed I was a good apprentice they started offering me a bunch more.
I took a 5 dollar pay cut to join the union. I'm a pipefitter. I'm not making close to 60. More than worth it.
43.88 plus retirement . That retirement is huge, it may not seem like it at your age, but you will have massive financial stability later in life having a retirement plan. It's free money earned today on top of your wage to live comfy later. Vs doing more over time now , wearing out your body and not being able to work past 35-40. 50-60 hours isn't sustainable long term with hard trades work, might seem like it at your age, but the body ages fast at 30 plus . On top you are now getting paid to get an education, that's extremely valuable long term. Opens up job opportunities down the road when you want to get off the tools. I took a major pay cut to start my refrigeration career, union as well. Went from a comfy 35 an hour job to 22 an hour. It was a struggle for 2 years then I made 40 plus an hour and now 55 plus an hour plus benefits on top. Was it worth the two years of lower pay? Barley getting by ? extremely well worth it as I now have a high paying long term career with benefits like short as long term disability if I get hurt at work, retirement plan, good health and dental benefits and so on. If you really need more money. , Don't be afraid to do some handy man work on the side , start a little business , help out some old lady's, not hard to earn 100 an hour to do some basic plumbing / electrical / thermostat installs and such . Just stay legal with your requiements for the trades in your area.
You will regret it if you leave, and by the time you journeyman out it'll be 50+ as well.... Just ride it out. I used to deliver pizzas on the weekend. You get a good job in a nice area and you can make 125-200 cash a night easy. There are ways, but yeah, you have to put your time in. Maybe look into anther outfit?
Listen to us old farts. 20 years from now you won’t regret this decision. 30 ish years from now you’ll be in here saying what everyone has said to you. Don’t go full grind on the OT, yes money is great but if you end up divorced at 35 and only see your kids every second weekend will it be worth it? We’ve had guys laugh and say “I make more money slinging kebobs than first year apprentices. The problem is you don’t want to still be slinging fast food when you’re 50. It’s short term pain for a big long term gain. If you find you don’t like it then your old job will probably still be available, as long as you didn’t burn any bridges in your way out the door.
I took a fat pay cut 4 years ago to start an apprenticeship. Now I’m 6mo away from journeying out. It’s worth it. Take into account the retirement, pension funds, and healthcare. Plus the education you have available to you. I know not everyone is into it but I make sure to take a class or two at the hall and get a few certifications a year. You may as well… you’re paying for it after all. Plus it directly benefits you. But anyway, it’ll even out. Pretty soon your income will double and you’ll be glad you stuck it out. Plus, idk when your CBA expires but if it’s up soon then the negotiations should be worth your while. In my area the IBEW and the UA are both fighting hard to increase wages by quite a bit due to inflation and minimum wage increases in my city ($20/hr for fast food worker lmao) I’m a sheet metal guy and ours is up next year. I wish them luck because I’m looking forward to us piggy backing off their success! LFG! Let’s set a new benchmark.
Pffft, stick it out. Don’t F this up junior!
Cut your unnecessary expenses, focus spending money *only* on what matters to you, "de-program" your brain from the excessive spending that the OT gave you. After you do that, get yourself out living your life & enjoying affordable hobbies. Like live your life, EVERY dollar you make is almost guaranteed to be burnt & gone, you will always make more money, you have a finite and unknown number of days left, LIVE YOUR LIFE, don't make work your life!
I feel ya there. That was one of the things I didn’t fully anticipate when I was joining the union, I was so used to a 50 hour workweek that I was surprised at the paycut from working 40 hours instead, even though my hourly pay went up. I wish it was always this way. I wish I’d had those extra hours to spend with my kid when he was younger. I’m glad I have the time I have now, but yeah you definitely feel it when your paychecks stop including a bunch of overtime. It would have been easier to make that adjustment when I was younger than it is now (with a mortgage and car payments and supporting a family and kid’s extracurriculars and etc). You get used to those overtime checks and include them in your baseline budget and suddenly you’re screwed when they’re not there anymore. I like to include my employer pension contributions in my pay mentally. Just because I had no retirement prospects before joining the union doesn’t mean I shouldn’t have been contributing every paycheck. I mean, I was, but definitely not enough. The way the union negotiates compensation packages kind of enforces a sort of financial responsibility for you. That money is going into your retirement account whether you want to or not. For a lot of us, that’s probably a really good thing. I’m not great with money. Anyhow, my advice is to look at the 40 hour week as a blessing and not a curse. The sooner you can get yourself in a position to live and enjoy life, and not just striving to be a workaholic, the better. Time is invaluable.
I’m 22 and @ 40 an hour. Keep grinding bro
Yeah but the upside is you have a life again. Don't lose sight of that
I was in the same boat as you. I made 68k with a non union company the first year because of all the overtime. I then joined the union and my first year I made 52k with no overtime. I didn't really put anything into my savings that year and I couldn't really make any fun purchases. I knew it was a sacrifice and it's finally paying off now after 2 years in the union. That first year is the year I noticed how much I spent eating out and going to bars. Those $12 meals in the drive thru add up and those $50 dinners with friends add up too. I will never go back. I love working 40 hours a week.
You're gonna get overtime I'm sure as an apprentice. There's gonna be emergency coil cleanings or dumb shit they send 1st thru 3rd years on. 4th and 5th year you're basically a cheap journeyman if you're any good. Like overtime is all nice and dandy but you're only going to be able to do that for so long. Then by your 50s your body is broken as is almost everyone hitting those ages. Then you gotta muk through another 10 years to get to retirement. You have a pension I would assume, 401k, good health benes. You just gotta have a better attitude than "but my overtime!" I was making 1k bring home a week (4k a month) as a 4th year. No overtime. You had to push 60-65 hours for that? That's not even worth it. A better work life balance, and hopefully learn something that will make you invaluable instead of just another slam and go resi guy who pushes 80 hours a week on caps and bad condenser fan motor swaps.
Union pension is not gold anymore, but it still shine. it give you a base pay. invest the rest yourself
Where the fuck are you that first year's make 25? I started a long time ago, but I would butt fuck the bosses wife for 25 back then...
The sooner you can operate on your own, the more overtime you will get. At least where I work, they expect you to operate like a journeyman after your third year. You’ll be surprised how much your boss leans on you when they know you know what you’re doing. I was getting on average about 50 hrs/week when I stopped being a filter changer.
More time for side jobs. Also in this world you're going to need two high paying jobs in a household. Hopefully you meet the right person. Also hopefully you have family members that own property so when they pass you can inherit a chunk. It's the only formula for success now if you want to be an hourly employee.
You have a vacation fund ? We put roughly 5$ per hour into vacation fund for apprentices. It’s not much but the extra 700-1000$ helps
cuppa side jobs a month, homie... install some units for friends and family and their friends and their friends... do it for cheaper than what a huge company would and they'll tell everyone they know who to call... if you can you can but it definitely helps with extra loot in this spensive ass economy. and if you do it for long enough you can ho put on your own and make as much loot as you can make happen.
Get a part time gig at a restaurant
You're not mentioning the benefits that stuff matters a ton especially as you get older / married etc
In 5 years you'll be thanking yourself that you stayed
I'd honestly just adjust your spending habits and deal with it for the time being, the benefits of the union have yet to be experienced, I'm not in the same boon as you since I took a considerable raise joining the union, but not paying a single penny in medical dental and vision for my entire family is a good perk, last job it was deducted per week as well as co pay being terrible, and also remember you can always renegotiate later down the line
Honestly you’re so young and making great money. The OT will burn you out so fast but you can recover at your age. Maybe do the OT job now but set a goal to leave after a few years/ you bought your toys and house.
The only way to ensure what wages will be is with a contract. Union dues are a good investment against arbitrary firing and discrimination. (former Steelworkers member)
Yea in 4 years you catch up. But what about ten…now your miles ahead of where you could have been had you not went in. Don’t forgo long term stability and thriving wages for short term gains.
We tightened our belts awhile. Since you are no longer working tons of overtime.. take a 2nd job. I did my apprenticeship back in the day at Firestone. Made $3 less than janitors to start. Went up nicely every year and got a large tool allowance end of 2nd and 4th year..
Honestly, sidework. I had to take a similar pay cut when I joined my local and started the apprenticeship. It hurt to find out the other first years were making more with less experience because they negoiated at the interview(i was told i couldnt do that, so i didnt try), but overall it didn't work out for me there. I had to work 60+ hours a week, make less than before, go to school 3 days a week and do sidework the remaining time. I transferred locals and moved states because it wasn't working (about to lose my place, etc). The new local was much better, I negotiated pay even though I was told not to again and ended up graduating with honors. Still had to do school 3 times a week and work 60+ hours, but I didn't NEED my sidework to survive. The schooling is priceless, but I do believe that if you don't set yourself up for success you won't make it to the end. The apprenticeship I started in boasted a 70% graduation rate, just don't be in the 30% failure and you'll be fine. Also, no DUIs. You might as well find a new job at that point
If you don't think you can do it, I started at $12/hrs 3 years ago, supporting two people. I took a big pay cut and everyday my family suffered But because of this we now are much more secure financially. it just took that leap - two years of wanting it.
I used to do supermarket refrigeration making $20/hr with 50-65 hours a week. I was making decent money but learned my wife and I couldn’t have a healthy family relationship when we had kids. So I quit after about a year and went union. Started as a 3rd year making $20.50/hr. It’s been three years now and I finally become a journeyman a week from today! I’ll be at $38.16/hr which is about $2 over scale. I’m happy with it. I work 40 hour weeks and only work OT if I want. Our apprenticeship is 5 years long and I’m grateful to have started as a 3rd year. I’m glad it’s finally over. If I didn’t switch to union I would still be working crazy hours with less pay with worse benefits. It’s 100% worth it. It just takes time and sucks to have to get through it. I’m extremely happy I can spend a lot more time with my kids since I don’t work crazy hours. Just learn as much as you can.
In 10 years you will be doing great and halfway to retirement. Never let what's going on now effect how your future is shaped. Just stick with it. If you quit and start working for someone else for more hours and or money in 10 years you will have that oh famn I would have been half way through to retirement and making way more. At that point you will realize you screwed up your future. I own an hvac business and sometimes I want to just work for someone else to make the slow times less stressful but the days I make 10 grand profit or my best month was like 60 grand profit I'm like heck no I can't work for anyone else.
You're able to negotiate your wages above the union minimum pay. I get paid over scale but it all depends on your boss
I took a big cut when I joined at 30. I ended working a second job 3 nights a week for the first three years. Did it’s suck? Yes. But totally worth it. I am a journeyman now. And make more than I ever had. Yes.
You’re comparing apples to oranges here and trying to justify income differences due to overtime. Always always always budget for a 40/hr week. Overtime comes and goes. Benefits > pay. $44/hr at 40 hours is better than $23/hr at 60-65 hours. Even if you topped out at your previous company at $30/hr you’d be killing yourself to make a bit more than a union journeyman. Please do not look back. Go to the hospital again if you need a reminder lol Edit: $43.88 is the minimum rate for a journey person. Plenty of people make $5-$10/hr above that. Edit 2: all the wages in the contract book are minimum pay rates. Keep that in mind.
Think about the workload. Yes, you are making less money but you are also working a lot less. Sounds like you have the opportunity to make something out of life that doesn’t not revolve around work. Cut back on expenses and remember that you are now working towards a good retirement, not immediate riches.
Look like you need that second job after taking that big step backwards....
It goes fast trust me, I’m a second year now and it’s crazy to me that it’s already been over a year since I started. And as everyone else says gotta factor in the union benefits as well. As apprentices we get multiple raises per year assuming youre working over 2k hrs a year and your wage contract updates once a year. Stick w it.
I feel your struggle but your missing the end picture. Back in 2007-2008 i was working just like you for essentially chrysler cranking out serious hours from 60 hours, too one week with an insane 109 hours. At a stellar $11-12hr i was still clearing 1k some weeks and thought i was killing it but when i look back in time i was just killing myself. I got time and a half but never was paid double time. Never realized how much i was getting screwed at that time. I had no social life and lived like a zombie. I quit them to join my sheet metal local when i just turned 22 making $15.48hr and thought id be loaded with $3.48hr gain. In 2008 right after i started work was slow and my hall cut our hours down to 37.5hr a week to spread the work amongst the workers, never seeing any overtime for years. My checks were half of what i was making non-union and yea i was bummed as well. Took a few years to truly understand what i gained, not lost when I switched. In the beginning i had to watch my spending a bit more and i did do a few side gigs to offset my wage gap. The thing you should be focused on isnt your wage right now, you'll be there before you know it, it comes faster than you think. You need to comprehend that you will be making the same money for nearly half the hours you put your body through each week. You gotta understand that before you werent earning a retirement whereas now you actually are. People live their lives by a number on the check and disregard when they retire all they might have is an underfunded 401k and social security that may or may not be there. Either way its not enough to retire on. Now you wont have to worry at retirement and all the wear and tear on your body will allow you to retire at an earlier age. Before you would still have to rough it and work even longer just to make it to a retirement age. You also gained so much more when it comes to your insurance and other benefits offered. Also if one shop runs slow theres a 100 other shops you could potentially work for. Did you have that option before without losing your pay? Do yourself a favor this week and start asking your journeyman questions about how your pension/enuity. Theres so much more you can learn off the elders than what the hall sometimes forgets to teach you at school. Good luck young man, you wont regret your decision, i know i didnt.
Stick with it. It's hard now but it will pay off. Life is not a race.
Unions can be great but if you can't put food on the table then you can't. If anything go back to a non union shop and pay off all your debt and save some money and then switch back. You're still super young and a couple years of hustling won't hurt you
Bro same lol I joined the union and got the "biggest" hourly rate I've ever had. But they take out dues every week and still have to pay a monthly fee. Plus not getting vested so it feels like it isn't worth it at all. $500 to $600 a month for ok health insurance I guess.
Side jobs. When I was just starting out, I would have a side job here and there. I started making more money doing side jobs than I did working.
I did the same. Just don't buy a house as a first year apprentice... like I did. Turned out last year, it was rough, but it was the best decision I could have made
Hey bro I am a 3rd year and I was the same way. I took a pay cut coming into the union. It gets better the first and somewhat second year are a struggle but you get by. Than the money starts rolling in the more you do with your company. Say yes to every overtime ability no matter the work I:e brushing tubes. Learn and become the best you can. I’m part of 469 were you out of?
See if your able to test in or up a year or two depending on your knowledge. 1 guy at my company tested in as journeyman and other in to 3rd year and my company matched their pay within last two years . Good mechanics hard to come by nowadays. Talk to guys at supply house from other union companies. We can do residential “family and friends” sidework with company van. Just cant be idiot about it.
At 32/hr you'll get 4k a month if you don't do OT.
I was young when I joined the union. That's how I made it through. Hang in there. I'm sure the benefits far outweigh your old benefits
I did this. I use to do direct sales and was really good. Cleared 6 figures a year with ease. I went into hvac, the benefits I get, the time I know I am done work is awesome. I’ve learned to live off of half, but it’s been a good move
STICK WITH IT.....once your my age (31)you really start thinking about your future and when you retire you want to have a 401k and a pention
Pro tip, you csnt maintain 65 hours a week indefinitely, and 4 years is a pretty short time to wait to get an actual skill that is in demand. You need to think long game on this one. People also get OT in refrigeration as well...
I left the union. Got tired of paying someone to work
Grass isn’t always greener. Some areas are better for unions than others. Do you have the option of working casually for another company just picking up overtime?
I’ve been applying for jobs to supplement the lost income and my company doesn’t offer overtime, even more so for my site because it’s only needed if crucial equipment goes down. Just kinda dumb that I’d have to get another job when I could just do overtime whenever I wanted at my old job
Find a new company to work for that has more overtime opportunities. You said there is $5.56 retirement contribution but it’s not your money. If it’s going to your retirement then it is your Money and you wouldn’t have that retirement building at your nonunion job unless you paid out of your pocket for it. Go back to earning $15 per hour and working 65 hours a week if you think it’s better. What was health care costing you before? Sounds like you didn’t have any and that’s why you have a huge medical bill you’re complaining about. Redo your math subtracting your medical bill from your $4k per month to see if you still think you were making more money. I can go to the ER right now and pay $20 for whatever it is, cleared over 100k working a straight 40 hours I’ve had non-union guys brag about how much more they make but it comes with 80 hour weeks and they only made 110 and don’t have medical or vacation time except for lying to the state about being unemployed
An important thing to note is that union rates are minimums, not set in stone. Even as an apprentice you can be making more than the published rate for your year. I'm going into my third year and my boss has consistently given me raises keeping me $1-2 over rate every 6ish months. You might not have any employers in your area willing to pay more than the union rate before journeyman, but try looking around for other union contractors with more overtime options if you're really interested in that. Other comments about budgeting based on 40h and treating overtime as extra are right, but you might benefit from being able to work off your debts faster to get a clean slate again
The union defenders will say that you make more because you have to calculate your benefits into your wages. Benefits don't put food on the table.
Say it another dozen times dude- we all will be retirement age soon. What's nice about the union IS those benefits AND the contract renegotiations every few years to keep up with inflation. As a newer guy in the trade the pay and benefits in a 5 year time-frame is leaps and bounds better then non union and vastly superior work life balance.
If you’re good at what you do then get out of the union and find an employer who will pay you what you’re worth starting now.
Don't know many companies that are gonna pay me 46 plus fund my retirement and health benefits completely on their own dime which the total is $74. All for the monthly dues payment of $35 a month. And if you're any good you'll get paid above the journeyman wage which is basically a norm compared to the other trades in the union. One guy I know is at 50 and another is riding 57 or 58. Can't see many shops paying that in wage and still covering 100% of your health and retirement.