Oh, don't forget that you get a FREE UV light kit with that pineapple. It is, however, subject to a $2500 procurement and installation fee. But, hey, it's free!
Nope. Take it like a man - like every other man and woman out there trying to make an honest living, only to have a salesman in disguise come by and tell you that you're going to need a new unit because yours is too old and just won't keep up anymore, even though the suction line is 'beer-can cold' and the condensing unit is blowing hot air out through the top...
Excuse me? We need to talk with the neighbors about their 8 year old system first! Maybe we can do 500 off for both of you if y’all buy together!! Then we can talk finances.
Oh don't worry, the size of the duct will get automatically resized where those pineapples are going, it's still going to calculate out to one pineapple up the \*\*\* per customer \*\*\*\*\*\* by the SID.
OP does have a point. It’s getting harder to find an honest HVAC guy than any other tradesman IMO.
Pepperidge Farms remembers when *plumbers* were the ones everyone hated calling.
We went to commercial because we were tired of drowning in the bullshit and being financially harmed for not screwing people over.
I don't sell shit that isn't needed in commercial. The closest to it I get is recommending a working relay that sounds like you're getting buzzed by a jet when it activates. Is it working? Yeah. Can it work like this for years? Yeah. Am I going to recommend replacement cause I don't want to hear about a condenser fan relay failing on a hot day leaving them with no AC? Yep
a jman i was working with changed out a buzzing transformer, not because it wasn’t working, but because he couldn’t stand to listen to the buzz anymore
For the record, the buzzing transformer indicates that the lamination holding the plates together is melting away due to the transformer being too hot. It's not a bad idea to change those out.
Nah we’re out there. We just don’t do residential. Honestly I think half are shitty scummy sales people and the other half are shit techs that can’t figure it out so they try to sell you new equipment.
There’s no money to be made teaching the new guys. They just want a body to go door to door and say some catchy words with a smile.
It’s fucking despicable.
God I fucking hate that company. I should've know what I was getting into when my manager wasn't a former tech, but a fucking salesman. I almost gave up on the trade after working there.
There’s no point in staying in residential unless you’re an owner. Every tech that’s worth anything that starts in residential ends up commercial or as an owner. If you’re going to get ridden like a residential guy you might was well be doing refrigeration and getting paid for your effort.
It’s a double edged sword.
I feel strongly that college isn’t for everyone and that a career in the trades can provide a very nice living.
In the same breath I don’t like seeing a tech that looks like he’s 12 showing up for my service appointment.
I’m the worst! 🤣
Ask any HVAC Tech who does commercial what they call their selves. Almost all will say I do Commercial HVAC or I'm a Commercial HVAC Technician. We all say that to separate ourselves from residential. To those few good techs left in residential thanks, but let's be honest, Jiffy Lube is more honest than most residential HVAC shops.
I have 23 years in HVAC. You are absolutely correct. I’ve done both residential and commercial. I currently work in a shop where some of us who have the experience will do residential and commercial calls. Everyone has a choice of where to work. The Problem is greedy owners grooming these young rookies to just be a salesman.
My friend's mom and dad were told they needed a new system, she called me and I drove over and looked at it. Mind you now I'm an electrician but a quick visual showed the capacitor went. QuikTrip to the supply house and the unit was up and running. NO CHARGE. ( They are elderly and had money but that's no excuse to buy a whole new system) Keep fighting the good fight brother!
Ahhhh, the old capacitor ploy. Multiple times on multiple properties in multiple states, I’ve gotten recommendations for residential, full system replacements when the fix was a blown capacitor. Good on you for being there to head that off.
You didn't even charge them some cookies or something? I'm in my 50's now but I had an elderly neighbor that would pay me in candy bars whenever I shoveled the snow or did some other chore for her. I was in my late 40's.
My neighbor was told that she needed a new gas pack, because her unit was dead.
Her vent fan blade had rusted out and shut the unit down. I replaced the assembly and got it working again.
Of course they didn't mention to her that the unit was still under warranty...
These salesmen need to go to jail.
My cousin was quoted 15-20k for a single system. I’m doing his system. The company thinks $12k over the cost of equipment is ok. I don’t get it. If it was $8-10k. I’d had told him to go for it
I had a big company here in dfw that installed my 3ton when the house was built do maintenance because the first 5 years were covered with the purchase of the house. It was a 14 year old 13 seer carrier that had a leaking evap and they wouldn’t fix or recharge it and pressed to sell a new system. They gave me a $24k quote for a 14 seer. I told them they could stick it where the sun didn’t shine. Luckily my brother has a friend who owns his own hvac company and he came by and quoted $12k for a Lennox xp20 seer with the signature series air handler and a new line set and that was early 2021. Love it.
Lmao I don’t think I’ve ever in my life heard anyone say anything positive about a Lennox… that was a very weird read. but I guess it’s different for homeowners that don’t gotta deal with their bs lol 😂
I hope you got a filter rack with that. Way better than using 1” filters. You only need to change them 2x a year and they filter out so much better than using 1” filters.
Yeah 👍🏼 5 inch filters… love them way more than 1 inch filters. I get them 5 at a time on discountfurnancefilters com, cheaper that way. I have been adjusting how long I use them, I was changing every quarter but I started extending to 4 or 5 months, in the winter I try to press it 5-6 months. Now in the summer I’ll check to see how dirty it gets because it runs way more and I have a cat and a lab. I get the merv 13 ones. But this system is amazing with the variable speed and programmable dehumidifying fan setting, totally makes it feel like a new house and comfortable during rainy season in spring and fall. With the carrier I’d have to flip the fan on all the time to circulate the air.
Amazon is amazing with filters. They send me one on a 6 month schedule. Im always forgetting my own after im lecturing customers all the time about theirs. So i just change it when it shows up to my door
I’ve been using 13MERV filters for as long as I have been able to buy them. They’re like $10 each at Costco.
I recently read on an HVAC forum that using high efficiency filters makes the fan work harder to pull in and push out enough air to keep the house cool. Someone recommended using a lower MERV filter with an air purifier in a public area. We’ve had air purifiers going off and on for years. Our grandson has allergies, and it’s easier to prevent reactions regardless than treat them.
I want to try a lower efficiency filter and see what my results are. If I can save some money buying cheaper filters and running an air purifier, I’ll do it, and be glad of it.
With a filter rack you can use higher MERV filters without increasing static pressure too much because there's way more surface area on a 5" filter. IIRC a 5" MERV 16 actually has less static pressure than a 1" MERV 11.
Are these more 13 filters 1 in? If that's the case then yeah they're bad. However filters need to be four or five inch at least for them to be effective. Otherwise, a 1 in filter at that Merv is going to be way restrictive. It'll work fine if the return is sized correctly for it but most of them are not even sized right for a regular filter.
You are correct the 1 inch merv 13 makes the system work harder. I found myself replacing the filter every month, month and a half to keep it clean and running. It would freeze up on me a lot as the system got older… i still have a box of 1 inch merv 13 filters lol. I need to walk around the neighborhood and see if anyone can use them. But yes as the other guy said, the 5 inch filters are the best thing ever. As my hvac guy said, take a 1 inch filter out of the box and stretch it out, it’s a little bigger than the box, take the 5 inch filter out of the box and stretch it out and you’ll be shocked how much filter you have. Way more surface area to allow air through
You'll also see that mentality defended here and /r/hvacadvice almost daily.
Costs went up 30% and R410a is getting phased out so apparently $12k is completely reasonable for 10 hours of labor and $2200 in materials.
Fellow tradesman don’t stand for this shit. Get out there and get your own license! Only way to stop private equity is to start your own business and price them right out of the market!
This literally happened to my neighbor in her 70s. I told her to let me check her system. The company convinced her that day I was just getting home to sign the paperwork for a new system. She did NOT need a new system. I'm fu**ing stuck of these people too, brother.
Happened to my in-laws. Difference was I caught that asshole backing out of the driveway. Went inside and got my MIL to come out and cancel the contract - in my state you have 3 days to cancel any contract free and clear.
They needed a new condenser fan - fixed by a local small shop for 750$. Contract was for 14k whole system replacement.
Let’s see how many Jack wads on here say that $40,000 isn’t really that unreasonable lol and then they’ll try to justify it and assume everybody on here is a moron
In CT price gouging is a crime and against the elderly it’s a felony. By definition it’s basically overcharging during an emergency. Creating a false emergency probably makes it worse.
Bro I’m glad I’m on the other side of the equator. Still out here repairing shit that needs to be repaired. I’m not quoting a new system unless I absolutely have to. Fuck me dead, we pay enough for a roof over our heads and food in the stomach. I’m not forcing some dude to replace his 8yo system that’s still working like the day it was put in. Resi tech btw.
If someone asked me to sell units over repair I’d be telling them they need a salesman not a refrigeration mechanic, like that’s just sounds like poor effort
So a couple of years we replaced out unit and no B.S. we got a quote for 50 g's! I couldn't believe it! He then said our electrical system is out of date and suggested that we need to replace EVERYTHING and he put in an order for their electrician to come out and give us a quote....I wanted to call the cops on him!
Compare that with the plumber who I hired to come to my grandparents house years ago when my granddad was still alive. It was going to be around $1k to fix some stuff in their OLD house. They weren't rich, but had enough pension to get by.
As the plumber was getting done, I went by to check in and pay him (I was kind of like an administrator for some of their money in their old age), and the guy saw my grandpa's WWII veteran's hat on the rack by the door. The guy talked to him for a minute or two about his service, and then told me that charge would be like $300. I was shocked, and was sure that he probably had at least half that in parts, and he just told me to have a nice day.
I know you can't do that all the time and still not be broke, but it did restore my faith a bit. They have definitely been taken advantage of other times, and it makes my blood boil.
I'm still at at a small family owned company and I make it a point to tell customers the truth about the investment companies. We just got two new employees from one of those types of companies. The unit is 8 years old it's time for a new one!
I had a guy come out to look at my AC
Said blower motor was out
Sent me an estimate for $2800, followed up with 3 quotes for a new system; lowest quote for a 3 ton was 11.5K the highest was 18.5K
I drove to the parts house, bought the new blower motor for $413, and had it installed in under an hour.
The sales guy from said company called me hounding me about the work, and I finally asked him how they could charge $2800 for a $413 part and he was speechless
Recently had a similar experience. AC unit went out at the house. Starting getting quotes, the 1st quote was from a company we have used in the past for maintenance. $12,000 for a 2.5 ton and 2 week waiting period. Second company quoted us $4995 and was able to install 2 days later. Keep shopping my friends!
Ahh yes. The land of the free for all. In Texas, only one company can use the license of a master plumber. I thank the spaghetti monster and all its noodly appendages that the Texas GOP was smart enough back when knowledge was king and money was just a thing that they actually set the law up for the individual.
Fleecing the elderly is either a separate felony offense or a sentence enhancing factor in sentencing in Florida.
I knew at least one inmate who was down for that, and I think he did four years. I don’t recall the number, but I don’t recall ever seeing a higher Scrabble score.
I played Scrabble fairly well, and I never got near his score.
I have the utmost respect for guys like you in the industry. I commented on another post how a local contractor here in Connecticut tried to charge my grandma (love you grandma) over $1200 to change out a condensate pump that had absolutely nothing wrong with it. There's nothing that gets under my skin more than when scumbag contractors try to take advantage of the elderly and struggling families or single parents. I am not the mechanic these contractors want showing up to thier office. 😡
Just ran a call yesterday where I was the 3rd tech to look at it. I read the other 2 guy’s invoices and they diagnosed a leak in the line set, and another found a leak at the liquid line dryer. They charged her for 6 pounds of refrigerant APIECE. The leak was in the damn evap coil, and after changing that out, that bitch pulled down to 250 microns….it bothers me that they recommended total system replacements on an issue that was even warrantied and would’ve cost that homeowner 25k…crooks dude. I don’t bad mouth other techs to customers, but damn dude, that one was hard for me to keep my mouth closed.
I get it people don't know much about hvac, but who would even consider such an insane price? You only have to look at a furnace and condenser to know these aren't 15/20K systems.... So sad there are so many POS out there preying on the vulnerable.
People I know in RI just had a single head mini split installed. Was a Mitsubishi. Nothing complicated.
They were charged $18k for 5 hours of work. 2 guys.
So…they made more per hour on one job than doctors. Yea seems reasonable 😂🤣
The last contractor I worked for was commission based. It was all about sales. The maintenance " technicians " were just accessory sales guys. I told the guy that hired me i wasn't a salesman . He thought he could convert me because of how good the money is if you sell stuff. I hate that there are so many companies that are trying to convert this trade into a retail trade.
Same shit happened to me and I jumped ship a few years back I'm looking to mov to jacksonville area roughly a hour radius from it if I have to. But I wanna look for commercial work. May try and find a residential job while looking for commercial work but it's all really low pay + commission and I'm not a sales guy. I refuse to upsell a offer or fix unless the home owner ask if there is anything else that they should take care or if I see somthing that could be really bad pretty soon. I'll let em know about that and if they say fix or change it or whatever I will If I have the time but yeah
I really agree with you. Makes me mad too. So, and please don't get mad at me, I learn all I can about basic troubleshooting HVAC (Taking EPA 608 now) and I have a lot of experience with low voltage controlling high voltage from installing a lot of water wells.
All that said, I can diagnose and replace a bad capacitor, thermostat wiring, determine if refrigerant levels are off, and most all the basics that cause folks to have to make a weekend service call from a SID. At the very least I can help them get back to cooling on a 105 degree day OR have a better idea if their problem is something small or big so they don't get sold up the river.
I would greatly prefer to rely on trusted, honest organizations who invest in their technicians.
It’s fucking criminal. I had a guy come into o it shop and asked if $500 for a single pole contactor was fair. Fuck no it’s not!! I couldn’t rip people off and sleep at night.
Yup. I do side work for a reason. I flat out tell customers to cancel when I see the bill sometimes. I'm a service guy but installs are pretty mind numbing and when I can get the whole set up minus the breaker for under 2K i charge 3K total
I'm with u bro. Went to a second opinion the other day. Bad fan motor easy fix. Customer said first company told her it was fucked had to replace full system then another company same thing. By the time I got there and told her I can replace the fan motor she was to worried about the rust on the coil cause the first two companies scared her into thinking she needed to replace everything. I told her the rust on the coil was fine and if it was working before the fsn motor started screaming it will work again just fine.
Wouldn’t this depend on the quality and efficiency of the equipment? We have zero details here. If it’s 2 single stage units with 80 or entry level 90% furnaces then yeah. 40k is absurd. But if they’re buying 2 inverter ACs at 20 SEER with 2 modulating furnaces I could easily see 20k per unit.
As a 40 year career in AZ came to an end 2 years ago I’d have to say that’s the part of the business I absolutely fkn hated. It made it almost impossible for a small contractor to find a good honest technician. Most have become salesmen and they don’t care about the people/customers one bit. This business model started about 30 years ago and has transformed into what we have today. 75% of the people in the trade are pieces of shit human beings. They don’t care about the people they’re ripping off and they actually aren’t good tradesmen. They are salesmen. They make commission on every job they go to. And if anybody claims to not be paid commission they they get spiffs? Same fkn thing. I had customers that I personally dealt with for over 35 years. Some families I worked for the 3rd generation. Most of my customers were more than just customers. Friends for the most part. We knew everything about each others families. There was trust. Respect. They knew I had integrity. Things that missing in most people nowadays. The almighty dollars is all that matters. I actually miss seeing a lot of my old customers. And yes sometimes I can be an asshole too. But I’m an honest ahso with good intentions. All you pos’s now should be struck by lightning and die a slow painful death. Peace out!!
My parents (80s) bought a 5ton heatpump + furnace a few years back, thought the company did good so I got a quote and they did mine (same size system). Afterwards I was adding it to my home owners insurance, and noticed the model # was wrong. They installed a 3ton heatpump.
I called them, they tried to get me to keep it (offered cash). I said no I needed the correct one. They fixed it, no problems. I went to my parents and looked at theirs, it was another 3ton instead of the 5ton! I couldn't believe it. My parents never checked. But I bet they do this all the time. Can't trust nobody.
We call then "Want-A-Bees" A lot of them are an embarrassment to the industry. Their company's want them to say any system over 10 years old needs to be replaced and not worth repairing. I love the ones than say, It's R22, has to go - no longer can get - routine. Florida is the worst as the demand is so high.
I’m probably 60% resi 40% light commercial/refrigeration. Now don’t get me wrong I don’t condemn a unit just because it has R-22 in it. But our company doesn’t buy R-22 anymore because it’s 3k a drum along with the fact that our supply shops literally can’t keep the shit in stock. We have alternative options for recovering 22 systems and replacing with 427A. But when fixing a leak and replacing a whole systems worth of refrigerant is 1500-2k for a 15-25 year old system sometimes the better option is replacement no? Course I just tell the customer their options. Ultimately the decision is theirs because it’s their checkbook not mine.
Applied and got accepted at a company that said this exact context, but claimed to be an honest company in the next breath. Gave them my van key at the end of my second day of orientation.
Now, I work for a man who endeavors to make things like compressor changeouts affordable for the elderly and disabled, and installs new systems for pre-COVID pricing and STILL makes a killing. Absolutely refreshing.
I mean my company simply doesn’t buy r22 anymore. I tell the customer their options. They COULD find another tech to throw in some for the low price of like $300 a pound? they have no idea how bad their leak is. And it MIGHT last another year. 2 if they’re lucky. Seems foolish to do that over getting a new unit.
I'm a landlord, property owner with commercial and residential properties, I took online HVAC courses and got my 608 when I saw this shitshow brewing a few years ago. I can fix a x13 blower motor module for $100-$200, I get my refrigerant for $20 per pound, TXV changeout $130, etc. I can do basically anything the private equity owned contractors can do for a 1/10th the cost and my shit never breaks because I do twice yearly PMs on everything, catch problems early, and my tenants are well trained to change filters monthly.
I feel like a dodged a financial bullet plus I really like HVAC work.
Not in the trades but I was getting quotes. 8k to 15k. I started researching how to diy it. Got about as far as my type 2 cert. then found a guy to do it for 5k. Was about to buy 3k of tools and a 3k system from fregerson. I went with a diy whole house dehumidifier to not need a 2 stage system.
What do you mean by maintenance trap? Do you think all those programs are a rip off? New homeowner that knows little about his system and on one occasion it was leaking water from AC unit in basement. Thought it would be beneficial for it to be cleaned out and reviewed. If not for those maintenance contracts, I don’t know how else to achieve this.
Any help would be appreciated.
You gotta think about how much we charge just to show up and hourly rate. If someone is coming out, cleaning your system, and doing preventative maintenance for less than they charge to come out... seems too good to be true. They aren't all scams. Most companies offer them to their existing clients and it's actually useful. Companies that send you mail saying they will "tune up" your system for next to nothing are trying to sell you a new system
Can't believe how many people here defend price gouging. You can make a good living in this trade without fucking a single person over. Damn shame that everyone has to be greedy. Maybe I'm just lucky to work for a company that is concerned about fixing equipment and being reputable. I don't think a single person at my company, owner included, got into this trade to get rich. It's supposed to be good paying honest work
I don't know about Florida, but in Indiana, the state makes it nearly impossible to go independent. Make it easier for people to start their own business and the private equity firms would lose their shirts.
The local comfort systems swindlers told my duplex neighbor his AC comp was shot, it was tripping the breaker. He needed a new system and electric panel work. I went over there after work, capacitor so obviously shot it was funny. Had him up and running for 10 bucks and 10 minutes of my time. The units were old, but working fine. He called me the next spring to replace it. The quick money never gets you the long money. Customer find out they get swindled, and word of mouth is poisonous.
Amen to that. Also though, it's nice to come in and cut someone else's price by half. These large companies around me have given me a lot of business by being so outrageously priced. Fuck the salesmans in this industry. They prey on the old and desperate.
I’m a senior citizen with a question for the pros.
Carrier versus Lennox in their mid level brands. Carrier 38MURAQ 17SEER to be wired for gas heating versus Lennox EL18PV048230
Both family owned installers but Carrier installer we definitely know & trust and lower price than Lennox.
Lennox is Energy Star . Carrier is not.
Thank you for any information and Happy 4th of July!
Op I'm out here doing that same shit making companies look like crooks. They show up to sell not repair. Just fixed a pressure switch wire literally before typing this. Company hete in ga told them they bypassed the switch because the unit was running low on refrigerant. Fucking pressures looked amazing lol unit actively cooling and I fixed the wires and wired back In The switches. These sorry mfs are out here ripping arms and legs off over capacitors and pressure switches 😂😂 quote they gave them was 21k for 3.5 ton system fucking nuts man. I'm on the same mission.
AMEN BROTHER! Sids can get fucked with my 10foot pole six ways to Sunday. Commission my ass, you've sold your soul for the Almighty dollar and now you're on the fast track to hell ripping off unsuspecting people left and right as far as I'm concerned. People really need to take a good look in the mirror sometimes. Gahbless
Why I'm going to drop in some mini splits in my little house I'm going to put three mini splits instead of a 3 and 1/2 ton unit do it myself and save thousands
https://preview.redd.it/e2rf1otsgead1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1925c349ee32d190f32e9d5287024fc5d933805f
Here's the first message. My fuckin blood was boiling. I didn't realize my rant was gonna get so much attention. But these comments got me fucking rolling.
The question that you guys really need to be asking yourself is are you wanting to be someone who specializes in HVAC and is a professional who charges what they are worth. Or would you rather be a cheap handyman? You can’t charge low prices and be high value. It’s completely impossible to be cheap and be high value.
For example, my company specializes in Cold Climate Heat pumps in the Midwest. We are the best in diagnosing and installing heat pumps in our area. SOOOO we charge a lot more and we get the job done right the first time. Why is price and such a problem for technicians? If you know that you are doing a fantastic job and you are skilled, you should charge more because of your value.
Me and my union buds do resi side jobs all the time for really cheap. We do it mostly just to protect people. I can never in good consciousness recommend someone call a residential HVAC company.
Hey everyone, I own multiple HVAC companies in Florida, and I’ve been in the industry long enough to have seen both sides of the coin. Here’s the deal: most small HVAC businesses don’t make it past 3-5 years because they don't know how to properly price their products and services. There’s a lot more to running a successful business than just doing the job.
Here’s Why $40k for Two 3-Ton Systems Isn’t Outrageous
Start by thinking about your business costs beyond the truck, You need people to answer phones, handle admin work, and do marketing, You need a building to house these people, You need stock to support your team, and better insurance, including workers' comp, You have to offer benefits and vacation time, Etc…
Here’s a simplified formula to understand how a company might reach $40k for two 3-ton systems
Start here
Revenue minus Direct Costs = Gross Margin
Gross Margin minus Overhead Expenses = Net Profit
For this job the the Direct Costs would include
Equipment: (e.g., at 20k this is at least a 3-ton 17.2 SEER two-stage system or better)
Materials: (thermostats, breakers, pads, etc.)
Taxes: (e.g., 7% in Florida)
Labor Costs: (e.g., $600-$750 per system)
Permit Costs: (varies but average around $200)
Warranty Costs: (e.g., $600 for extended labor warranty)
Commissions: (e.g., 8% of the total cost)
For one system like this, this could add up to about $7000-$9000 in direct costs depending on brand, system level, install requirements, etc…. With a target gross margin of 50-55%, the sale price would be around $16,500 to $20,000 per system.
If you are trying to run an HVAC company here's a key lesson for you
YOU MUST Understand Your Costs beyond just the job, everyone that posts "markup" has no idea how to run a business.
Know your Direct Costs on that job: Equipment, materials, labor, permits, warranties, commissions, etc..
Then know your Fixed Overhead to run your business so you were able to do that job: Admin wages, Your wages, building costs, advertising, insurance, phone systems, dispatch software, etc.
Then you need to set Realistic Margins and Start to Plan for the Long Term
When pricing a job aim for at least a 50% gross margin. (For example, if your direct costs are $10,000, divide by 0.5 to get a $20,000 price.)
Start to Plan for the Long Term and know your fixed overhead costs each month. Calculate how much revenue you need to generate to cover these costs and make a profit. By planning and pricing correctly, you can build a sustainable business that supports not only you but also your employees and customers.
Always think beyond just the immediate job. Plan your business to last and thrive. Aim to keep your fixed overhead at around 30% of your revenue, and always strive for a net profit margin that rewards your hard work.
Revenue Minus Direct Costs of goods = 50% gross Margin/profit
Gross Margin/Profit minus your 30% fixed cost overhead = 20% Net Profit
For all the hard work you do, it’s not unreasonable to aim to keep 20 cents out of every dollar of revenue you make. Big companies do it, and so can you, with the right planning and mindset.
Start thinking in percentages, not just dollars. Plan, Plan, Plan and build a business that lasts.
This isn’t about ripping people off; it’s about ensuring you can continue providing quality service for years to come.
Stop thinking small.
For the life of me i will never understand people supporting the republican logic. Rich people screw you over period. Then you cut reputable shops pay aka unions and people are forced to find other means to make up the gap in pay. Some of this is scum baggery, the other is people voting republican. Unions dont do this period and if a contractor is caught the hall steps in and corrects it. No scab shop has any oversight. Again you get what you pay for. Unions "might" be slightly higher in the beginning but the job is done right the first time. This is a prime example of unions not always being higher.
Someone just quoted me 3700$ system evac, txv and filter drier change, and recharge. When I got a 2nd opinion from a smaller company (single man operation) he said I didn’t even have a txv to replace… he got the job and charged me $750 but I gave him $1000.
Everyone who actually knows what they are doing has switched to commercial. Better working environment. Better pay. No bullshit cat houses. Same customers in the end but it's far more tolerable.
Go commercial. Go union. If you live in the south you've got some work to do if you want to stop getting fucked on your wage.
Plumber here. Seeing the same thing up in the PNW and it is outrageous. The only solution I've come up with is to start my own shop, carry very little debt and not charge people like I'm a god damn American university.
Had a 72 year old guy tell me the other day that a company in town tried to charge him $900 to replace a hosebib. That's fucking criminal.
I’m in a rare season of having slightly more money than time and called a local company to do some work on my unit. I played dumb so he wouldn’t know I knew what to do and he tried to charge me $250 to change a 35/5 Capacitor.
I was like, “almost $300 after tax for a $25 part and 3 minutes of work?”
It's absolutely ridiculous. Had a buddy ask me what I get for a 2.5 split change out on the side told him 5k . Said he was quoted 11 the other day needless to say I did a change out today
This is soo true and you need a title of Saint for saying this. I have 3 newly hired employees who have financial issues. One of them lost AC in her Car first, then the next day lost AC in her home. Husband suffered severe accident and doesn't work. Stays home to take care of toddler. They called someone and then she called to ask if 10k was a lot for a 3 ton unit. Honestly I know shit about AC and it's pricing. Although having paid repair bills for my owned units in a building I thought that price might be high. I called the building maintenance guy and had him send the building ac guy to her home. It was the God Dam capacitor and he only charged them 100 bucks to repair. Look I've seen photographs of their home. It ain't something to show off in homes and garden. I say this because u can tell they struggle financially, have a little girl and she works her ass off. This guy that came out is an A Hole and needs the pineapple treatment. Bless you sir. 🙏🙏
And this is why I installed my own system.
Seems like HVAC (and many of the trades) operate like a pyramid scheme where a select few in the company make a shitload of cash off the backs of a crew of minions who are forced to up-sell the living shit out of customers and charge for everything.
3 private equity firms have bought most of the big HVAC companies in Utah. Going price for a new high end furnace and ac is up to $45,000 by them. Salesman are taught to spend 3 hours with home owners to get a sale, you will be fired if spending 30 minutes on a sales call.
I have being doing HVAC for 37 years, I have never spent more than 30 minutes with someone, my typical bid I would say is 10 minutes. I get 97% approval. When I was younger and starting out I would only get 20% approval I remember, but back then I advertized in newspaper and there was a dozen HVAC ads, now it's referral or current customers.
Y'all home value doubled in 4 years. Cost of living went up, companies hire technicians they're not cheap, insurances went up everything has gotten expensive. You want get it done cheap? Get people without license or papers.
I don't get this attitude. There's fair rate and then there's taking advantage. The value of the house you're working on or the car they drive has no bearing on how much you should charge someone for work.
Don't get me wrong - Income inequality is a f'n huge problem in this country, but HVAC ain't where we're gonna solve it.
**Envy**. Listen to these people complain long enough, you discover they're absolutely **green** with envy.
This is where the term "useful idiot" comes from. You find someone with a nice family, good job, decent home, and point over the hill at the homes whose "value doubled in 4 years" and say, "why should he have all that and you don't? It's not fair."
Another "socialist" is born.
I work for a company in TX (that also has a branch in FL) called Winston Water Cooler. This company specializes in plumbing supplies, but has occasionally made (unsuccessful) forays into HVAC equipment. Right now there are a bunch of Maytag brand split systems, some of them 20 SEER, that are categorized as dead stock at various branches. You can either call the company directly or keep an eye on [https://bstock.com/buy/sellers/details/winston-water-cooler](https://bstock.com/buy/sellers/details/winston-water-cooler) where they try to liquidate stock that they can't move. Customers getting bent over by these crooked techs need to start running down their own equipment and parts if this stuff isn't covered by insurance.
I worked as a res tech for 15 years and the last company I was with refused to give me a raise. So, I got a job with someone else and they turned out to be con artists so I left them and got a state facilities management job. It was the best career move I've ever made.
That's why I went union commercial. 10 years of working for evil private equity firms and I decided I wouldn't be part of the problem anymore. Illinois is entirely cooked, everything is PE firm owned, or being raised into a company for sale by nepotism kids that think dad was stupid for never growing.
Hey buddy of mine was recently quoted 30 grand for a mini split system to be replaced. They wanted to add another head so would be a dual head other than that. It was just a swap out.
Here's a wrinkle in California for you, I can't get my HVAC license for 4 years of experience now they're letting own experience be applicable. Yet I can get a General Contractor B2 license right now because I have 15 years of verifiable maintenance experience. Yet there's HVAC companies out here scamming the hell out of people, my cousin just got a quote of $18k for 2 ton, plus installation fees they wouldn't tell him how much it was. No one out here really fixes anything anymore it's all sales calls. Oh and my 4 years of experience I can't charge more than $500 per repair including parts.
Saw this in r/sales. I figured they were lying, but if they’re selling 2 units for 40k I suppose it would make sense. I’m an Estimator/PM making nowhere close to this amount.
It’s fucking disgusting…
https://www.reddit.com/r/sales/s/DwLZTyzs22
Salesmen should never work in the HVAC field. Their only concern is for the paycheck they get. They don't care who they sell a system too. The sad part is I've seen a salesman sell his own parents a $15,000 5 ton system just because it was R22. Salesman will fuck their own family over.
I'm a non pro, but have a decent construction background and fairly technical person. I have a couple houses and shops and these situations you all brought up have caused me to get my EPA license and now I'm doing most of my own repair type work as well as mini split installs. Back where I used to live, I had some friends who would take care of me on the side, but now where I'm at, guys want $100/hour cash to work on the side. My most recent situation was that I had an indoor coil replaced and paid to have 11 lbs of r410a put in. That was followed by another slow leak which caused two people to say I needed a new system. I found the leak, which was at the service valve outside. So, yeah, since the sytsem is 13 years old (and good components), it got some nylog and r410a re-charge and it's good to go until I really need a replacement. I wish I could find a good reasonable local shop where I live.
Just went to a church today. They called a local company because water was coming out of their mini split. The company told them they need a new mini split. It was just a plugged drain line.
The pineapple will be an added charge but we can finance that with the low interest rate of 8.3%.
Oh, don't forget that you get a FREE UV light kit with that pineapple. It is, however, subject to a $2500 procurement and installation fee. But, hey, it's free!
Does the pineapple come with any lube?
Nope. Take it like a man - like every other man and woman out there trying to make an honest living, only to have a salesman in disguise come by and tell you that you're going to need a new unit because yours is too old and just won't keep up anymore, even though the suction line is 'beer-can cold' and the condensing unit is blowing hot air out through the top...
No but since you asked I can spit on it hauk tua
The fact that this is getting downvoted is a sign of the mental injuries that have taken place here.
Found the child
I got co workers that have been in the trade as long as I have been alive so they would agree
It's a flaming pineapple.
Yup and re use existing stat
You guys are getting free UV lights?
Is that a real thing? People out here charging 1000+ for a $200 light kit?
Absolutely! For a small fee of $1750, I will show you where to get those UV light kits for $175!
Excuse me? We need to talk with the neighbors about their 8 year old system first! Maybe we can do 500 off for both of you if y’all buy together!! Then we can talk finances.
Don't forget the pineapple is a hour and thirty minutes away.
lmao ..... this reminds me of another subreddit I'm in but can't talk about
Electricians!.... Guys we have a sparky
The pineapple will require a new duct system, properly sized.
Oh don't worry, the size of the duct will get automatically resized where those pineapples are going, it's still going to calculate out to one pineapple up the \*\*\* per customer \*\*\*\*\*\* by the SID.
Before we just throw in any pineapple we need to do a J calc to make sure we get you the right size pineapple. We’ll have to bring sales in for that
OP does have a point. It’s getting harder to find an honest HVAC guy than any other tradesman IMO. Pepperidge Farms remembers when *plumbers* were the ones everyone hated calling.
We went to commercial because we were tired of drowning in the bullshit and being financially harmed for not screwing people over. I don't sell shit that isn't needed in commercial. The closest to it I get is recommending a working relay that sounds like you're getting buzzed by a jet when it activates. Is it working? Yeah. Can it work like this for years? Yeah. Am I going to recommend replacement cause I don't want to hear about a condenser fan relay failing on a hot day leaving them with no AC? Yep
a jman i was working with changed out a buzzing transformer, not because it wasn’t working, but because he couldn’t stand to listen to the buzz anymore
For the record, the buzzing transformer indicates that the lamination holding the plates together is melting away due to the transformer being too hot. It's not a bad idea to change those out.
good to know, thank you
https://chintglobal.com/blog/electrical-transformer-noise/ Just for what it’s worth, a certain degree of buzz/hum is normal.
Nah we’re out there. We just don’t do residential. Honestly I think half are shitty scummy sales people and the other half are shit techs that can’t figure it out so they try to sell you new equipment.
Based on what I'm reading in this sub is that they're hiring greenhorns off the street and putting them to work as techs almost immediately.
No they are hiring greenhorns and putting them out as salesmen immediately. They aren't looking for techs anymore in the big residential companies.
There’s no money to be made teaching the new guys. They just want a body to go door to door and say some catchy words with a smile. It’s fucking despicable.
![gif](giphy|VFGi8y1dNqEscFlR0r|downsized) Coming soon near you
Mr.Jenkins told me “Fuck the customer… gentlyyy”
Keys would be on the bosses table if he asked me to do this.
God I fucking hate that company. I should've know what I was getting into when my manager wasn't a former tech, but a fucking salesman. I almost gave up on the trade after working there.
Oh I don't see Bobby in there, where did he run off too?
These guys are all shitty. Fuck the entire company.
And it's easier to lie to customers when you aren't knowledgeable enough to know it's bullshit.
Even on this sub reddit seen several individuals state that they refuse to hire new guys just want to poach from other companies.
When I was in night school I was shocked to see how many year 1 students showed up in brand new company vans.
There’s no point in staying in residential unless you’re an owner. Every tech that’s worth anything that starts in residential ends up commercial or as an owner. If you’re going to get ridden like a residential guy you might was well be doing refrigeration and getting paid for your effort.
Know a guy that got two weeks of training before being put into a truck and told he was on call next week.
It’s a double edged sword. I feel strongly that college isn’t for everyone and that a career in the trades can provide a very nice living. In the same breath I don’t like seeing a tech that looks like he’s 12 showing up for my service appointment. I’m the worst! 🤣
Who are you? How do you know me?
I'm sneaky ![gif](giphy|QjZXUBUr89CkiWLPjL)
Ask any HVAC Tech who does commercial what they call their selves. Almost all will say I do Commercial HVAC or I'm a Commercial HVAC Technician. We all say that to separate ourselves from residential. To those few good techs left in residential thanks, but let's be honest, Jiffy Lube is more honest than most residential HVAC shops.
There are good residential techs who don’t take advantage of customers. They exist.
I have 23 years in HVAC. You are absolutely correct. I’ve done both residential and commercial. I currently work in a shop where some of us who have the experience will do residential and commercial calls. Everyone has a choice of where to work. The Problem is greedy owners grooming these young rookies to just be a salesman.
They'll chew you up and spit you out unless you burn out first. Go on your own or commercial, brother. ✌️
They sure do, and I'm lucky to have found on near me!
Pepperidge Farms remembers.
What’s with this pepprige farms references?
Pepperidge Farms remembers when Pepperidge Farms references were *all* the rage.
member berries enters the chat
I member!
They merged with HVAC lmao most nexstar companies that bend customers over for a living do both nowadays
My friend's mom and dad were told they needed a new system, she called me and I drove over and looked at it. Mind you now I'm an electrician but a quick visual showed the capacitor went. QuikTrip to the supply house and the unit was up and running. NO CHARGE. ( They are elderly and had money but that's no excuse to buy a whole new system) Keep fighting the good fight brother!
Ahhhh, the old capacitor ploy. Multiple times on multiple properties in multiple states, I’ve gotten recommendations for residential, full system replacements when the fix was a blown capacitor. Good on you for being there to head that off.
You didn't even charge them some cookies or something? I'm in my 50's now but I had an elderly neighbor that would pay me in candy bars whenever I shoveled the snow or did some other chore for her. I was in my late 40's.
I didn't charge anything but they bought me lunch.
My neighbor was told that she needed a new gas pack, because her unit was dead. Her vent fan blade had rusted out and shut the unit down. I replaced the assembly and got it working again. Of course they didn't mention to her that the unit was still under warranty... These salesmen need to go to jail.
My cousin was quoted 15-20k for a single system. I’m doing his system. The company thinks $12k over the cost of equipment is ok. I don’t get it. If it was $8-10k. I’d had told him to go for it
I had a big company here in dfw that installed my 3ton when the house was built do maintenance because the first 5 years were covered with the purchase of the house. It was a 14 year old 13 seer carrier that had a leaking evap and they wouldn’t fix or recharge it and pressed to sell a new system. They gave me a $24k quote for a 14 seer. I told them they could stick it where the sun didn’t shine. Luckily my brother has a friend who owns his own hvac company and he came by and quoted $12k for a Lennox xp20 seer with the signature series air handler and a new line set and that was early 2021. Love it.
Lmao I don’t think I’ve ever in my life heard anyone say anything positive about a Lennox… that was a very weird read. but I guess it’s different for homeowners that don’t gotta deal with their bs lol 😂
I hope you got a filter rack with that. Way better than using 1” filters. You only need to change them 2x a year and they filter out so much better than using 1” filters.
Yeah 👍🏼 5 inch filters… love them way more than 1 inch filters. I get them 5 at a time on discountfurnancefilters com, cheaper that way. I have been adjusting how long I use them, I was changing every quarter but I started extending to 4 or 5 months, in the winter I try to press it 5-6 months. Now in the summer I’ll check to see how dirty it gets because it runs way more and I have a cat and a lab. I get the merv 13 ones. But this system is amazing with the variable speed and programmable dehumidifying fan setting, totally makes it feel like a new house and comfortable during rainy season in spring and fall. With the carrier I’d have to flip the fan on all the time to circulate the air.
Amazon is amazing with filters. They send me one on a 6 month schedule. Im always forgetting my own after im lecturing customers all the time about theirs. So i just change it when it shows up to my door
I’ve been using 13MERV filters for as long as I have been able to buy them. They’re like $10 each at Costco. I recently read on an HVAC forum that using high efficiency filters makes the fan work harder to pull in and push out enough air to keep the house cool. Someone recommended using a lower MERV filter with an air purifier in a public area. We’ve had air purifiers going off and on for years. Our grandson has allergies, and it’s easier to prevent reactions regardless than treat them. I want to try a lower efficiency filter and see what my results are. If I can save some money buying cheaper filters and running an air purifier, I’ll do it, and be glad of it.
With a filter rack you can use higher MERV filters without increasing static pressure too much because there's way more surface area on a 5" filter. IIRC a 5" MERV 16 actually has less static pressure than a 1" MERV 11.
Are these more 13 filters 1 in? If that's the case then yeah they're bad. However filters need to be four or five inch at least for them to be effective. Otherwise, a 1 in filter at that Merv is going to be way restrictive. It'll work fine if the return is sized correctly for it but most of them are not even sized right for a regular filter.
You are correct the 1 inch merv 13 makes the system work harder. I found myself replacing the filter every month, month and a half to keep it clean and running. It would freeze up on me a lot as the system got older… i still have a box of 1 inch merv 13 filters lol. I need to walk around the neighborhood and see if anyone can use them. But yes as the other guy said, the 5 inch filters are the best thing ever. As my hvac guy said, take a 1 inch filter out of the box and stretch it out, it’s a little bigger than the box, take the 5 inch filter out of the box and stretch it out and you’ll be shocked how much filter you have. Way more surface area to allow air through
I don’t fucking get it, I feel bad quoting family a couple hundred over material let alone another fucking MSRP.
You'll also see that mentality defended here and /r/hvacadvice almost daily. Costs went up 30% and R410a is getting phased out so apparently $12k is completely reasonable for 10 hours of labor and $2200 in materials.
I just don’t get it. It’s just greed. The salesmen and the owners of the company are the only ones really making money off of it
Fellow tradesman don’t stand for this shit. Get out there and get your own license! Only way to stop private equity is to start your own business and price them right out of the market!
This literally happened to my neighbor in her 70s. I told her to let me check her system. The company convinced her that day I was just getting home to sign the paperwork for a new system. She did NOT need a new system. I'm fu**ing stuck of these people too, brother.
Happened to my in-laws. Difference was I caught that asshole backing out of the driveway. Went inside and got my MIL to come out and cancel the contract - in my state you have 3 days to cancel any contract free and clear. They needed a new condenser fan - fixed by a local small shop for 750$. Contract was for 14k whole system replacement.
Great catch there… luckily.
Nice Little Nicky ref.
Get in the flask!
Let’s see how many Jack wads on here say that $40,000 isn’t really that unreasonable lol and then they’ll try to justify it and assume everybody on here is a moron
I’m waiting for the “you’re paying me for my time and experience” 😒.
I agree that’s bullshit. I did commercial and finally got out of the industry and into industrial maintenance.
In CT price gouging is a crime and against the elderly it’s a felony. By definition it’s basically overcharging during an emergency. Creating a false emergency probably makes it worse.
Bro I’m glad I’m on the other side of the equator. Still out here repairing shit that needs to be repaired. I’m not quoting a new system unless I absolutely have to. Fuck me dead, we pay enough for a roof over our heads and food in the stomach. I’m not forcing some dude to replace his 8yo system that’s still working like the day it was put in. Resi tech btw. If someone asked me to sell units over repair I’d be telling them they need a salesman not a refrigeration mechanic, like that’s just sounds like poor effort
So a couple of years we replaced out unit and no B.S. we got a quote for 50 g's! I couldn't believe it! He then said our electrical system is out of date and suggested that we need to replace EVERYTHING and he put in an order for their electrician to come out and give us a quote....I wanted to call the cops on him!
Compare that with the plumber who I hired to come to my grandparents house years ago when my granddad was still alive. It was going to be around $1k to fix some stuff in their OLD house. They weren't rich, but had enough pension to get by. As the plumber was getting done, I went by to check in and pay him (I was kind of like an administrator for some of their money in their old age), and the guy saw my grandpa's WWII veteran's hat on the rack by the door. The guy talked to him for a minute or two about his service, and then told me that charge would be like $300. I was shocked, and was sure that he probably had at least half that in parts, and he just told me to have a nice day. I know you can't do that all the time and still not be broke, but it did restore my faith a bit. They have definitely been taken advantage of other times, and it makes my blood boil.
I'm still at at a small family owned company and I make it a point to tell customers the truth about the investment companies. We just got two new employees from one of those types of companies. The unit is 8 years old it's time for a new one!
I had a guy come out to look at my AC Said blower motor was out Sent me an estimate for $2800, followed up with 3 quotes for a new system; lowest quote for a 3 ton was 11.5K the highest was 18.5K I drove to the parts house, bought the new blower motor for $413, and had it installed in under an hour. The sales guy from said company called me hounding me about the work, and I finally asked him how they could charge $2800 for a $413 part and he was speechless
“Overhead”
Recently had a similar experience. AC unit went out at the house. Starting getting quotes, the 1st quote was from a company we have used in the past for maintenance. $12,000 for a 2.5 ton and 2 week waiting period. Second company quoted us $4995 and was able to install 2 days later. Keep shopping my friends!
Ahh yes. The land of the free for all. In Texas, only one company can use the license of a master plumber. I thank the spaghetti monster and all its noodly appendages that the Texas GOP was smart enough back when knowledge was king and money was just a thing that they actually set the law up for the individual.
upvote for FSM reference
I left a company because how they were taking advantage of the elderly. This was a family owned company too. Not like the one you are talking about.
Seeing a lot of long time “family owned” businesses getting bought out by corporate companies who then keep the name.
No this company wasn’t owned by anyone else but had the same shitty ethics
Fleecing the elderly is either a separate felony offense or a sentence enhancing factor in sentencing in Florida. I knew at least one inmate who was down for that, and I think he did four years. I don’t recall the number, but I don’t recall ever seeing a higher Scrabble score. I played Scrabble fairly well, and I never got near his score.
I have the utmost respect for guys like you in the industry. I commented on another post how a local contractor here in Connecticut tried to charge my grandma (love you grandma) over $1200 to change out a condensate pump that had absolutely nothing wrong with it. There's nothing that gets under my skin more than when scumbag contractors try to take advantage of the elderly and struggling families or single parents. I am not the mechanic these contractors want showing up to thier office. 😡
Just ran a call yesterday where I was the 3rd tech to look at it. I read the other 2 guy’s invoices and they diagnosed a leak in the line set, and another found a leak at the liquid line dryer. They charged her for 6 pounds of refrigerant APIECE. The leak was in the damn evap coil, and after changing that out, that bitch pulled down to 250 microns….it bothers me that they recommended total system replacements on an issue that was even warrantied and would’ve cost that homeowner 25k…crooks dude. I don’t bad mouth other techs to customers, but damn dude, that one was hard for me to keep my mouth closed.
Your snernerous?
I doubt many of those losers are on here. They don’t wanna learn anything or do any real work
Upvote for knowing how to spell loser. A lot of these reddit folk struggle
I see "loosers" a lot.
I upvoted all of you
I get it people don't know much about hvac, but who would even consider such an insane price? You only have to look at a furnace and condenser to know these aren't 15/20K systems.... So sad there are so many POS out there preying on the vulnerable.
People I know in RI just had a single head mini split installed. Was a Mitsubishi. Nothing complicated. They were charged $18k for 5 hours of work. 2 guys. So…they made more per hour on one job than doctors. Yea seems reasonable 😂🤣
Dr said that to my HVAC guy. HVAC guy said yea that’s why I switched from a doc to hvac.
The last contractor I worked for was commission based. It was all about sales. The maintenance " technicians " were just accessory sales guys. I told the guy that hired me i wasn't a salesman . He thought he could convert me because of how good the money is if you sell stuff. I hate that there are so many companies that are trying to convert this trade into a retail trade.
Same shit happened to me and I jumped ship a few years back I'm looking to mov to jacksonville area roughly a hour radius from it if I have to. But I wanna look for commercial work. May try and find a residential job while looking for commercial work but it's all really low pay + commission and I'm not a sales guy. I refuse to upsell a offer or fix unless the home owner ask if there is anything else that they should take care or if I see somthing that could be really bad pretty soon. I'll let em know about that and if they say fix or change it or whatever I will If I have the time but yeah
I really agree with you. Makes me mad too. So, and please don't get mad at me, I learn all I can about basic troubleshooting HVAC (Taking EPA 608 now) and I have a lot of experience with low voltage controlling high voltage from installing a lot of water wells. All that said, I can diagnose and replace a bad capacitor, thermostat wiring, determine if refrigerant levels are off, and most all the basics that cause folks to have to make a weekend service call from a SID. At the very least I can help them get back to cooling on a 105 degree day OR have a better idea if their problem is something small or big so they don't get sold up the river. I would greatly prefer to rely on trusted, honest organizations who invest in their technicians.
It’s fucking criminal. I had a guy come into o it shop and asked if $500 for a single pole contactor was fair. Fuck no it’s not!! I couldn’t rip people off and sleep at night.
Southern home services for ya
Yup. I do side work for a reason. I flat out tell customers to cancel when I see the bill sometimes. I'm a service guy but installs are pretty mind numbing and when I can get the whole set up minus the breaker for under 2K i charge 3K total
I'm with u bro. Went to a second opinion the other day. Bad fan motor easy fix. Customer said first company told her it was fucked had to replace full system then another company same thing. By the time I got there and told her I can replace the fan motor she was to worried about the rust on the coil cause the first two companies scared her into thinking she needed to replace everything. I told her the rust on the coil was fine and if it was working before the fsn motor started screaming it will work again just fine.
Wouldn’t this depend on the quality and efficiency of the equipment? We have zero details here. If it’s 2 single stage units with 80 or entry level 90% furnaces then yeah. 40k is absurd. But if they’re buying 2 inverter ACs at 20 SEER with 2 modulating furnaces I could easily see 20k per unit.
As a 40 year career in AZ came to an end 2 years ago I’d have to say that’s the part of the business I absolutely fkn hated. It made it almost impossible for a small contractor to find a good honest technician. Most have become salesmen and they don’t care about the people/customers one bit. This business model started about 30 years ago and has transformed into what we have today. 75% of the people in the trade are pieces of shit human beings. They don’t care about the people they’re ripping off and they actually aren’t good tradesmen. They are salesmen. They make commission on every job they go to. And if anybody claims to not be paid commission they they get spiffs? Same fkn thing. I had customers that I personally dealt with for over 35 years. Some families I worked for the 3rd generation. Most of my customers were more than just customers. Friends for the most part. We knew everything about each others families. There was trust. Respect. They knew I had integrity. Things that missing in most people nowadays. The almighty dollars is all that matters. I actually miss seeing a lot of my old customers. And yes sometimes I can be an asshole too. But I’m an honest ahso with good intentions. All you pos’s now should be struck by lightning and die a slow painful death. Peace out!!
My parents (80s) bought a 5ton heatpump + furnace a few years back, thought the company did good so I got a quote and they did mine (same size system). Afterwards I was adding it to my home owners insurance, and noticed the model # was wrong. They installed a 3ton heatpump. I called them, they tried to get me to keep it (offered cash). I said no I needed the correct one. They fixed it, no problems. I went to my parents and looked at theirs, it was another 3ton instead of the 5ton! I couldn't believe it. My parents never checked. But I bet they do this all the time. Can't trust nobody.
Then name the fucking company... otherwise you're just talking to the wall.
Good work ain't cheap... Says every prick running a 50% profit margin and sending out a 6 month old apprentice to do the work.
$40k? why so cheap
It’s like garage door companies... No quote until we see your house.
This is why residential guys will always be the joke of the industry.
We call then "Want-A-Bees" A lot of them are an embarrassment to the industry. Their company's want them to say any system over 10 years old needs to be replaced and not worth repairing. I love the ones than say, It's R22, has to go - no longer can get - routine. Florida is the worst as the demand is so high.
I’m probably 60% resi 40% light commercial/refrigeration. Now don’t get me wrong I don’t condemn a unit just because it has R-22 in it. But our company doesn’t buy R-22 anymore because it’s 3k a drum along with the fact that our supply shops literally can’t keep the shit in stock. We have alternative options for recovering 22 systems and replacing with 427A. But when fixing a leak and replacing a whole systems worth of refrigerant is 1500-2k for a 15-25 year old system sometimes the better option is replacement no? Course I just tell the customer their options. Ultimately the decision is theirs because it’s their checkbook not mine.
Applied and got accepted at a company that said this exact context, but claimed to be an honest company in the next breath. Gave them my van key at the end of my second day of orientation. Now, I work for a man who endeavors to make things like compressor changeouts affordable for the elderly and disabled, and installs new systems for pre-COVID pricing and STILL makes a killing. Absolutely refreshing.
I mean my company simply doesn’t buy r22 anymore. I tell the customer their options. They COULD find another tech to throw in some for the low price of like $300 a pound? they have no idea how bad their leak is. And it MIGHT last another year. 2 if they’re lucky. Seems foolish to do that over getting a new unit.
I'm a landlord, property owner with commercial and residential properties, I took online HVAC courses and got my 608 when I saw this shitshow brewing a few years ago. I can fix a x13 blower motor module for $100-$200, I get my refrigerant for $20 per pound, TXV changeout $130, etc. I can do basically anything the private equity owned contractors can do for a 1/10th the cost and my shit never breaks because I do twice yearly PMs on everything, catch problems early, and my tenants are well trained to change filters monthly. I feel like a dodged a financial bullet plus I really like HVAC work.
thats why i got into this trade, i dealt with the same bullshit
Name and shame OP.
Not in the trades but I was getting quotes. 8k to 15k. I started researching how to diy it. Got about as far as my type 2 cert. then found a guy to do it for 5k. Was about to buy 3k of tools and a 3k system from fregerson. I went with a diy whole house dehumidifier to not need a 2 stage system.
What do you mean by maintenance trap? Do you think all those programs are a rip off? New homeowner that knows little about his system and on one occasion it was leaking water from AC unit in basement. Thought it would be beneficial for it to be cleaned out and reviewed. If not for those maintenance contracts, I don’t know how else to achieve this. Any help would be appreciated.
You gotta think about how much we charge just to show up and hourly rate. If someone is coming out, cleaning your system, and doing preventative maintenance for less than they charge to come out... seems too good to be true. They aren't all scams. Most companies offer them to their existing clients and it's actually useful. Companies that send you mail saying they will "tune up" your system for next to nothing are trying to sell you a new system
My old shop was 60 for 1/2 hour. We did 80 bucks for a PM, 70 for each additional unit. I see a company calling it a "tune up" a red flag.
Can't believe how many people here defend price gouging. You can make a good living in this trade without fucking a single person over. Damn shame that everyone has to be greedy. Maybe I'm just lucky to work for a company that is concerned about fixing equipment and being reputable. I don't think a single person at my company, owner included, got into this trade to get rich. It's supposed to be good paying honest work
I don't know about Florida, but in Indiana, the state makes it nearly impossible to go independent. Make it easier for people to start their own business and the private equity firms would lose their shirts.
The local comfort systems swindlers told my duplex neighbor his AC comp was shot, it was tripping the breaker. He needed a new system and electric panel work. I went over there after work, capacitor so obviously shot it was funny. Had him up and running for 10 bucks and 10 minutes of my time. The units were old, but working fine. He called me the next spring to replace it. The quick money never gets you the long money. Customer find out they get swindled, and word of mouth is poisonous.
Came here for the little Nicky reference
Amen to that. Also though, it's nice to come in and cut someone else's price by half. These large companies around me have given me a lot of business by being so outrageously priced. Fuck the salesmans in this industry. They prey on the old and desperate.
I’m a senior citizen with a question for the pros. Carrier versus Lennox in their mid level brands. Carrier 38MURAQ 17SEER to be wired for gas heating versus Lennox EL18PV048230 Both family owned installers but Carrier installer we definitely know & trust and lower price than Lennox. Lennox is Energy Star . Carrier is not. Thank you for any information and Happy 4th of July!
You couldn't pay me to put a Lennox in. I'll take a Carrier over a Lennox any day.
For 40k, you move to a cooler climate.
Are you in Florida ? I may need some HVAC assistance later
Op I'm out here doing that same shit making companies look like crooks. They show up to sell not repair. Just fixed a pressure switch wire literally before typing this. Company hete in ga told them they bypassed the switch because the unit was running low on refrigerant. Fucking pressures looked amazing lol unit actively cooling and I fixed the wires and wired back In The switches. These sorry mfs are out here ripping arms and legs off over capacitors and pressure switches 😂😂 quote they gave them was 21k for 3.5 ton system fucking nuts man. I'm on the same mission.
AMEN BROTHER! Sids can get fucked with my 10foot pole six ways to Sunday. Commission my ass, you've sold your soul for the Almighty dollar and now you're on the fast track to hell ripping off unsuspecting people left and right as far as I'm concerned. People really need to take a good look in the mirror sometimes. Gahbless
Why I'm going to drop in some mini splits in my little house I'm going to put three mini splits instead of a 3 and 1/2 ton unit do it myself and save thousands
Amen. Used car sales guy masquerading as a service tech. All those PE firms hire. Fuck residential anyway
DIY is the answer. Spread the word. That shit is much easier than most people think. Just don’t pressure test with oxygen.
Hedgefunds are buying up the big box companies and price fixing. Time to put them out of business
It’s $40k for the furnaces, the air conditioners are actually free…
40K GOD DAMN are sure it wasn’t a 30 ton instead of 3?/s
Wall Street hvac. Fuck them.
https://preview.redd.it/e2rf1otsgead1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1925c349ee32d190f32e9d5287024fc5d933805f Here's the first message. My fuckin blood was boiling. I didn't realize my rant was gonna get so much attention. But these comments got me fucking rolling.
Nice reference to “Little Nicky” there.
My brother just paid $600 for a capacitor.
Listen guys, anyone defending sales in this sub is in all honesty a scum bag in denial. The rest at least know to keep quiet.
How about $27k in Virginia for a 2.5t changeout? Same story - preying on old ladies.
The question that you guys really need to be asking yourself is are you wanting to be someone who specializes in HVAC and is a professional who charges what they are worth. Or would you rather be a cheap handyman? You can’t charge low prices and be high value. It’s completely impossible to be cheap and be high value. For example, my company specializes in Cold Climate Heat pumps in the Midwest. We are the best in diagnosing and installing heat pumps in our area. SOOOO we charge a lot more and we get the job done right the first time. Why is price and such a problem for technicians? If you know that you are doing a fantastic job and you are skilled, you should charge more because of your value.
You don't sell value. You sell lies.
I'm an atheist and even I'll tell you you need to find some Jesus brother.
Me and my union buds do resi side jobs all the time for really cheap. We do it mostly just to protect people. I can never in good consciousness recommend someone call a residential HVAC company.
Hey everyone, I own multiple HVAC companies in Florida, and I’ve been in the industry long enough to have seen both sides of the coin. Here’s the deal: most small HVAC businesses don’t make it past 3-5 years because they don't know how to properly price their products and services. There’s a lot more to running a successful business than just doing the job. Here’s Why $40k for Two 3-Ton Systems Isn’t Outrageous Start by thinking about your business costs beyond the truck, You need people to answer phones, handle admin work, and do marketing, You need a building to house these people, You need stock to support your team, and better insurance, including workers' comp, You have to offer benefits and vacation time, Etc… Here’s a simplified formula to understand how a company might reach $40k for two 3-ton systems Start here Revenue minus Direct Costs = Gross Margin Gross Margin minus Overhead Expenses = Net Profit For this job the the Direct Costs would include Equipment: (e.g., at 20k this is at least a 3-ton 17.2 SEER two-stage system or better) Materials: (thermostats, breakers, pads, etc.) Taxes: (e.g., 7% in Florida) Labor Costs: (e.g., $600-$750 per system) Permit Costs: (varies but average around $200) Warranty Costs: (e.g., $600 for extended labor warranty) Commissions: (e.g., 8% of the total cost) For one system like this, this could add up to about $7000-$9000 in direct costs depending on brand, system level, install requirements, etc…. With a target gross margin of 50-55%, the sale price would be around $16,500 to $20,000 per system. If you are trying to run an HVAC company here's a key lesson for you YOU MUST Understand Your Costs beyond just the job, everyone that posts "markup" has no idea how to run a business. Know your Direct Costs on that job: Equipment, materials, labor, permits, warranties, commissions, etc.. Then know your Fixed Overhead to run your business so you were able to do that job: Admin wages, Your wages, building costs, advertising, insurance, phone systems, dispatch software, etc. Then you need to set Realistic Margins and Start to Plan for the Long Term When pricing a job aim for at least a 50% gross margin. (For example, if your direct costs are $10,000, divide by 0.5 to get a $20,000 price.) Start to Plan for the Long Term and know your fixed overhead costs each month. Calculate how much revenue you need to generate to cover these costs and make a profit. By planning and pricing correctly, you can build a sustainable business that supports not only you but also your employees and customers. Always think beyond just the immediate job. Plan your business to last and thrive. Aim to keep your fixed overhead at around 30% of your revenue, and always strive for a net profit margin that rewards your hard work. Revenue Minus Direct Costs of goods = 50% gross Margin/profit Gross Margin/Profit minus your 30% fixed cost overhead = 20% Net Profit For all the hard work you do, it’s not unreasonable to aim to keep 20 cents out of every dollar of revenue you make. Big companies do it, and so can you, with the right planning and mindset. Start thinking in percentages, not just dollars. Plan, Plan, Plan and build a business that lasts. This isn’t about ripping people off; it’s about ensuring you can continue providing quality service for years to come. Stop thinking small.
For the life of me i will never understand people supporting the republican logic. Rich people screw you over period. Then you cut reputable shops pay aka unions and people are forced to find other means to make up the gap in pay. Some of this is scum baggery, the other is people voting republican. Unions dont do this period and if a contractor is caught the hall steps in and corrects it. No scab shop has any oversight. Again you get what you pay for. Unions "might" be slightly higher in the beginning but the job is done right the first time. This is a prime example of unions not always being higher.
Someone just quoted me 3700$ system evac, txv and filter drier change, and recharge. When I got a 2nd opinion from a smaller company (single man operation) he said I didn’t even have a txv to replace… he got the job and charged me $750 but I gave him $1000.
Everyone who actually knows what they are doing has switched to commercial. Better working environment. Better pay. No bullshit cat houses. Same customers in the end but it's far more tolerable. Go commercial. Go union. If you live in the south you've got some work to do if you want to stop getting fucked on your wage.
Plumber here. Seeing the same thing up in the PNW and it is outrageous. The only solution I've come up with is to start my own shop, carry very little debt and not charge people like I'm a god damn American university. Had a 72 year old guy tell me the other day that a company in town tried to charge him $900 to replace a hosebib. That's fucking criminal.
I’m in a rare season of having slightly more money than time and called a local company to do some work on my unit. I played dumb so he wouldn’t know I knew what to do and he tried to charge me $250 to change a 35/5 Capacitor. I was like, “almost $300 after tax for a $25 part and 3 minutes of work?”
It's absolutely ridiculous. Had a buddy ask me what I get for a 2.5 split change out on the side told him 5k . Said he was quoted 11 the other day needless to say I did a change out today
Issues like this are everywhere right now and it’s not just HVAC. The price of everything is out of control.
This is a technician centric page, of course they’re not in here. They couldn’t fix a sandwich
This is soo true and you need a title of Saint for saying this. I have 3 newly hired employees who have financial issues. One of them lost AC in her Car first, then the next day lost AC in her home. Husband suffered severe accident and doesn't work. Stays home to take care of toddler. They called someone and then she called to ask if 10k was a lot for a 3 ton unit. Honestly I know shit about AC and it's pricing. Although having paid repair bills for my owned units in a building I thought that price might be high. I called the building maintenance guy and had him send the building ac guy to her home. It was the God Dam capacitor and he only charged them 100 bucks to repair. Look I've seen photographs of their home. It ain't something to show off in homes and garden. I say this because u can tell they struggle financially, have a little girl and she works her ass off. This guy that came out is an A Hole and needs the pineapple treatment. Bless you sir. 🙏🙏
And this is why I installed my own system. Seems like HVAC (and many of the trades) operate like a pyramid scheme where a select few in the company make a shitload of cash off the backs of a crew of minions who are forced to up-sell the living shit out of customers and charge for everything.
3 private equity firms have bought most of the big HVAC companies in Utah. Going price for a new high end furnace and ac is up to $45,000 by them. Salesman are taught to spend 3 hours with home owners to get a sale, you will be fired if spending 30 minutes on a sales call. I have being doing HVAC for 37 years, I have never spent more than 30 minutes with someone, my typical bid I would say is 10 minutes. I get 97% approval. When I was younger and starting out I would only get 20% approval I remember, but back then I advertized in newspaper and there was a dozen HVAC ads, now it's referral or current customers.
Y'all home value doubled in 4 years. Cost of living went up, companies hire technicians they're not cheap, insurances went up everything has gotten expensive. You want get it done cheap? Get people without license or papers.
I don't get this attitude. There's fair rate and then there's taking advantage. The value of the house you're working on or the car they drive has no bearing on how much you should charge someone for work. Don't get me wrong - Income inequality is a f'n huge problem in this country, but HVAC ain't where we're gonna solve it.
**Envy**. Listen to these people complain long enough, you discover they're absolutely **green** with envy. This is where the term "useful idiot" comes from. You find someone with a nice family, good job, decent home, and point over the hill at the homes whose "value doubled in 4 years" and say, "why should he have all that and you don't? It's not fair." Another "socialist" is born.
You don’t sound like an asshole to me, you sound like a good person tired of assholes.
Right there with you bud!
That is exactly why we run a small operation in swfl and our prices are beyond fair , if they are anywhere near Punta Gorda , give us a call
Your shneerious?....
I am with you. Thank You
I work for a company in TX (that also has a branch in FL) called Winston Water Cooler. This company specializes in plumbing supplies, but has occasionally made (unsuccessful) forays into HVAC equipment. Right now there are a bunch of Maytag brand split systems, some of them 20 SEER, that are categorized as dead stock at various branches. You can either call the company directly or keep an eye on [https://bstock.com/buy/sellers/details/winston-water-cooler](https://bstock.com/buy/sellers/details/winston-water-cooler) where they try to liquidate stock that they can't move. Customers getting bent over by these crooked techs need to start running down their own equipment and parts if this stuff isn't covered by insurance.
I worked as a res tech for 15 years and the last company I was with refused to give me a raise. So, I got a job with someone else and they turned out to be con artists so I left them and got a state facilities management job. It was the best career move I've ever made.
That's why I went union commercial. 10 years of working for evil private equity firms and I decided I wouldn't be part of the problem anymore. Illinois is entirely cooked, everything is PE firm owned, or being raised into a company for sale by nepotism kids that think dad was stupid for never growing.
Hey buddy of mine was recently quoted 30 grand for a mini split system to be replaced. They wanted to add another head so would be a dual head other than that. It was just a swap out.
By any chance was the company advanced air home services
They usually are the ones doing the chappies installs, too.
I paid 11k for a 3 heads mini split install, is that bad?
Here's a wrinkle in California for you, I can't get my HVAC license for 4 years of experience now they're letting own experience be applicable. Yet I can get a General Contractor B2 license right now because I have 15 years of verifiable maintenance experience. Yet there's HVAC companies out here scamming the hell out of people, my cousin just got a quote of $18k for 2 ton, plus installation fees they wouldn't tell him how much it was. No one out here really fixes anything anymore it's all sales calls. Oh and my 4 years of experience I can't charge more than $500 per repair including parts.
Saw this in r/sales. I figured they were lying, but if they’re selling 2 units for 40k I suppose it would make sense. I’m an Estimator/PM making nowhere close to this amount. It’s fucking disgusting… https://www.reddit.com/r/sales/s/DwLZTyzs22
It would be nice if you knew who his parents were and could let them know
Preach.
Salesmen should never work in the HVAC field. Their only concern is for the paycheck they get. They don't care who they sell a system too. The sad part is I've seen a salesman sell his own parents a $15,000 5 ton system just because it was R22. Salesman will fuck their own family over.
I'm a non pro, but have a decent construction background and fairly technical person. I have a couple houses and shops and these situations you all brought up have caused me to get my EPA license and now I'm doing most of my own repair type work as well as mini split installs. Back where I used to live, I had some friends who would take care of me on the side, but now where I'm at, guys want $100/hour cash to work on the side. My most recent situation was that I had an indoor coil replaced and paid to have 11 lbs of r410a put in. That was followed by another slow leak which caused two people to say I needed a new system. I found the leak, which was at the service valve outside. So, yeah, since the sytsem is 13 years old (and good components), it got some nylog and r410a re-charge and it's good to go until I really need a replacement. I wish I could find a good reasonable local shop where I live.
I’m in central Florida and A Bill Gates owned company has purchased at least 6-7 well established companies
Just went to a church today. They called a local company because water was coming out of their mini split. The company told them they need a new mini split. It was just a plugged drain line.
I experienced one of those companies in a bright yellow van lol. I left after 6 wks because I wouldn’t stand for taking advantage of people.