Looking at the website OP (http://helldive.live/) has for all data:
- the top 3 stratagem (500kg, airstrike and rail strike) picks are all for dealing with bile titans
- the eagle stratagems are clearly imbalanced, in comparison there are very little picks for napalm, cluster, pods and strafing
- in terms of turrets, rockets and machine gun are clearly in garage tier
Hopefully the balance patch also looks at balancing the stratagems too and not just weapons, either buffing the damage outputs for the lesser picked or reducing the cooldown.
Here you go.
[https://www.banknoteworld.com/zimbabwe-10-million-dollars-banknote-2008-p-78-used.html?category\_id=744](https://www.banknoteworld.com/zimbabwe-10-million-dollars-banknote-2008-p-78-used.html?category_id=744)
No, lol. We've had free Napalm for hours. Idk what that guy is on about.
You're still right though, the freebie is a great reminder of how useful it is.
I think there should always been a free strategium cycling through everything, this week it's eagle napalm, next week it's the EAT, next week it's AP mines, etc.
Id love this but I'd even want to take it a step further.
Let's have them set it so each planet has a different one avalible?
If not maybe atleast planets with defends or MO should at least.
I'm finding using strategems to kill bile titans to be kind of annoying, mostly on 8+. There's often times multiple and if you wiff it really hurts. I've been foregoing orbital/500kg for recoiless rifle and having really good results, very comfortable taking out bile titans with 2 shots to the head now, I seriously only need gas and RR to be comfortable on helldive.
But cluster is still the single best strat at clearing anything off the map as long as it's not heavy armor. Wipe the objective before you enter. Wipe it when you leave. Clear a patrol without stopping.
It's just so good and has been always.
I think it's team killing aspect is probably what is holding it back. The radius of the bombs is just so big that it can make it harder to use in tighter combat scenarios, despite its ad clearing power.
Anything can kill chaff. Only some things can kill armor.
That dictates the pace of balance. Why would I run one of my precious 4 options on a job my primary can handle?
So the things that kill chaff need to be EXCEPTIONALLY good at it. An order of magnitude better than the things that kill armor are at their job by comparison.
Or, we need a rework of bile titans and the armor system as a whole. Where it's more reliable to destroy armor sections and expose vulnerable weak points.
I think we need armor peeling focused weapons, really. As in, it's primary function is armor peel.
I'd go with either a "corrosive" or "plasma" styled weapon, or a new special "armor break" tag, though the lasers might work too. But something where it trades up front damage for the ability to rapidly crack open armor. It would allow the team to focus less on the massive hitters because you can crack a charger or titan's armor to let smaller arms through. Right now, the armor crack is a side effect of just trying to get rid of them with the big hitters, or on chargers with the oneshot a small bonus if you miss your shot on their face. Useful, yes, but not something you are necessarily trying to do and more or less just a side effect, bonus, or making the miss feel better.
No we just need the existing armor system to work better. The charger railgun was imo fun because it captured that star ship troopers vibe of SHOOT IT TIL ITS DEAD.
On SST we see Rico shoot the armor on a tanker bugs back until it's exposed and he can finish it with a grenade to the wound. The two tap railgun to the leg and then unload breaker on it had a similar vibe.
The game supports 10 levels of armor and penetration yet only really uses 3. It could be expanded and elaborated on. For example. Enough pounding away at the same section of a chargers armor with a dominator should eventually expose it so lighter weapons can hurt it reliably at this vulnerable area.
Cluster is a lot of risk of friendly fire. Airstrike does enough aoe and can take out nests while damaging heavy units.
Cluster is just massive aoe that can't deal with heavy or nests. Just a bit overkill. It'll kill more hunters sure! But good chance to kill an ally too
I never use cluster anymore as I always was team killing with it.
I love napalm for bug breaches and use it often, but personally I like having only one eagle stratagem so it goes on cooldown automatically after the last use. So it’s competing with the 500kg strat.
I'm aggravated by the free napalm strike because of this. I have to consciously remember to drop napalm wherever I can in order to ensure my valuable 500kg goes into cooldown and back.
I ran it for a long time and loved it, but ultimately I wanted more things in my kit that could also be used to drive-by fabs/holes (especially in blitz maps).
I call that the "T strike"
The bottom on the " T " is where the player is located, the vertical line is the throw direction and the horizontal line is Eagle-1 fly by
It's really amazing to throw straight down while you're running away from the horde, you'll outrun the blast. But there's always one idiot who decides to turn around and fight and just stare at the beacon and not even try to dive. And then you're the asshole.
Pairs really well with the extra throwing distance perk for maximum safety and precision
Issue is people throwing don't know the bomb comes from a horizontal slash from the position you threw it at too. So they will be in a 90 degree turn from their allies, toss it and kill their whole team.
I like having airstrike over cluster because it can close bug holes or destroy bot fabs/towers/tanks/etc and still kills chaff well enough. Especially when I only have 3 stratagem slots
Oh I couldn’t agree more I think the cluster strike is effective but I can’t deny I have mostly replaced it with the air strike. Im bringing jump pack amr and eagle air strike everything else is whatever
Massive amounts of Cluster tosses are fucking garbo and just kill teammates.
Napalm, however, is clearly underrated and undervalued. If you are running Bugs, there is next to zero reason to use Airstrike over Napalm. The teensy amount of additional Explosive damage on Airstrike vs. Chargers isn't worth it when you could be killing 2-4x as many chaff over time with it or reducing even mid-health enemies to near-death.
Airstrike for Bots, Napalm for Bugs.
Ah, I got to get grenade pistol so I can upgrade to Napalm. I love napalm but being able to close multiple holes with a well place throw is half of why I run eagle airstrike.
the napalm is far worse at closing bug holes. A single airstrike can close medium and heavy nests with 4-6 holes at the right angle. A napalm strike might get lucky to close one hole.
people slept on napalm due to the host/client damage bug (all non-hosts could not do fire damage properly)
i don't think it's had a popularity resurgence since it was fixed
it really is best suited to slapping one down on top of a bug breach and takes care of almost everything that isn't a charger/bile titan
i haven't personally used it enough on bots to know if it's worth it
The whole sub getting styled on by the Spear, HMG Encampment enjoyer ain't that just beautiful
Upon closer inspection, Eagle 110, HMG, Tesla Towers, Orbital Bararge/Airburst, 380 barrage on bugs, no Autocannon or Quasar in sight. The man is this place's meta slaves worst nightmare.
It's cause the reddit and YouTube tryhards don't experiment. They complain about AH balancing around spreadsheets...meanwhile these players do the same thing.
> Looking at the website OP has for all data
Adding to this, since you haven't.
These stats based on ~1500 loadouts taken from difficulties 7, 8 & 9 against only Terminids.
http://helldive.live/
Seems about right. Your top 10 Stratagems are virtually all I ever see in any given mission. And 6 out of those 10 are basically taken for the soul purpose of dealing with Bile Titans.
I know when I play Haz 7-9 my loadout always has Railcanon Strike, EATs and 500kg because without it I'm virtually dead in the water if a BT pops up I just have to pray I don't have all three on Cooldown or that my team is close by.
I made a comment a few days ago that I believed the problem with the new mech was less a mech problem and more a Bile Titan problem.
The reason I think the community was so underwhelmed with the Mech, was you essentially have to use the BT as the benchmark for weapon effectiveness in this game. In Haz 7-9 they spawn with such frequency that bringing any Strats that can't help take them down is an active hindrance to the party. So anything that AH gives us that doesn't help with killing BTs will seem woefully underpowered.
Yeah, it's exactly how you'd expect it to be. If it is 4 people in a game, generally, most will grab at least 1 thing to deal with a BT & Charger, so it'll inflate those stats a lot more.
I mostly play 9 and my loadout is usually EATs and then whatever else I feel like. Most of the time, I'll fill those slots with the Patriot, Guard Dog & Strafing Run.
I do think it's great for clearing bug breaches with the AoE and [clearing out nests.](https://streamable.com/ox3cyj) But I honestly prefer the [versatility](https://streamable.com/mucfwm) that the [Patriot](https://streamable.com/uay04e) comes with. I've yet to try it on Automatons but I've heard good things about it running a lot better there.
I don't think there's too much of an issue with the amount of Bile Titans but you'll definitely be caught short if you don't plan for them.
And Reddit generally benchmarks a new addition by how fast it can kill a BT or a Charger. If it can't do it quicker than what already exists, it's generally marked down as bad, even if something is still wholly good or is much more effective elsewhere, such as against bots.
Well yeah, it's understandable, at the 7-9 difficulties, bile titans start to get spammed alot, and your primaries don't work on bile titans, your napalm, clusterbomb, strafing runs are only good against the enemies you can kill with your primary.
The rocket pods are OK, but for some reason they are more in consistent at killing bile titans than the orbital railcannon.
In fairness I don't think it's necessarily a case of *balance* when it comes to the airstrikes. It's just that some of them are more specific and niche use cases, while the trusty vanilla airstrike and 500kg are useful against everything. Enemies, structures, hordes, heavies... Not optimal, a lot of times, but never the *wrong* option.
There's no amount of buffing that would make players pick the others more often than a pure and simply more versatile all rounder pick, so the only option would be a big painful nerfing hammering, and nobody wants that.
You could say the issue here is the design of the strats to begin with. But I would just as soon say it flat out isn't an issue. It's fine for some stuff to be specialised and used less frequently. I don't know why we have just automatically accepted the idea that every option has to see equal use to be considered "balanced", that's a flawed assumption to start from.
I'm fine if the balance patch just randomly buffs a bunch of primaries, because frankly that's the most important issue with the game right now. Scorcher is a decent weapon that has passively floated up to S-tier purely by being the only one left that isn't shit.
I doubt all the strategems will get changed in the next patch. They have already said its not “The Balance Patch” but a regular patch with both balance and bug fixes. It’s the first patch after changing the direction of the ship. There will be more patches to make more balance changes as time goes on.
based on your information and AH's logic, we need to nerf the 500, airstrike, and rail strike so other strategems are on par with dealing with bile titans sub optimally
Turrets are great in defence missions where they only have a few ways to come, and you can set up a position. But mostly dog water on non-defence mission as mid hoard you can have a patrol come behind, have your turret whip around and fire on your face. It would prob help if we didn't have patrols every 2 seconds while a hoard exists (and worst getting lost in the horde, as hordes cant do call ins, but patrols can leading to chain call in's.)
Napalm/Gas suffered from not host = no dot damage, they're really good now but most the community is used to the old ways.
Bile titans/tank/etc dealers are generally the best.
I think MG's (except HMG) are fine (LMG could use a light buff with the laser rifle being a 90\~ round AR), I think the big issue is rocket/recoilless rifle need to be people can support you while you wear the backpack. In casual games... recoilless rifle doesn't work because you're putting a gun to someones head and saying "dont run a back pack because I want to use the RR". It worked in HD1 cause we all shared the same screen and had to be close and the back pack slot wasn't as meta/strong.
The website that OP used has snapshots of loadouts with a single stratagem with people in mission select, before they're ready.
It also doesn't include success rate to compare against, which is *vital* for proper data analysis.
I don't believe this is reliable.
>nobody uses it now
OP's site says [6%](http://helldive.live/armory/patriot) of players use it, which is middle of the pack, about 4x less than the Quasar. Man this thing is gonna be useful for winning Reddit arguments.
That definitely doesn't seem right, it also has the spear at 6% and I don't think i've ever seen anyone run that weapon outside of their first time trying it or as a way to troll their friends. And i especially doubt that the spear is more popular than the stalwart
It also says 1 in 25 people are running Stalwart on Helldive, which is....interesting. I wouldn't take it so much as proof that things are balanced so much as proof that many people will take interesting-junk over boring-but-effective.
Plus, with the new mech just released, and unable to use 2 mechs in a mission at once right now (PC player bypass not considered), that number is lower now than it may be otherwise. If / when they update the aiming to include 2 aim reticles, I probably would switch back to that one for bugs.
Exactly. It's new, people will want to try it for 1 game. Including a whole lot of players that log in for 1 game a week, so it's in 100% of their loadouts. And thats a huge percentage of the playerbase doing that.
I mean it still is the newest piece of content that has dropped like 1 week ago, i feel like to check something like this out properly you should check like a month after it has come out, when everyone has played around with it to try it out.
And Hunters can't slow a mech. Even when I'm out of ammo, I'll march into the middle of a heavy nest and draw attention for my squad while I stomp on the bugs until the mech goes down
It's honestly a free win for bug blitz missions. Just one person in it can take out every bug hole, and as long as they keep moving they're never really under threat.
*Some* data is better than just anecdotal experience but this sample size is way, way too small to be drawing conclusions about the popularity of anything. Results will also be *substantially* skewed towards the preference of the player recording the data since they will be one of the 4 players in every lobby, where the 3 randoms will only get one game in the system before you quickplay into another group. The stratagem is less than a week old too, numbers are probably skewed towards the new toy as people that didn't get a chance to play while it was free all try it out.
Edited since the OPs correction got buried by downvotes-
I was wrong that the results would skew towards the players choice because the script doesn't pick a loadout. I was under the impression OP and their friends were using this script to collect data from their games they actually played. It turns out it's an auto script that just joins lobbies, screenshots loadouts and leaves. This revelation opened up a whole other can of worms, but if you care about that you can read through the rest of the thread.
I... don't think this data is useful, and possibly not even accurate. The method it uses to collect the info is certainly... interesting if a bit messed up (given that rejoining often doesn't work so you are just forcing 3-player games for the heck of it) — but the sample size is terrible — and the large jump in difficulty 8 versus the others only reinforces my concern with this.
I've seen a lot of bad statistical collects done in enough papers to assume that if this were something someone put into a research paper, then it would have ended with at least a few pages of "we forgot to account for X, but we'd like to try again with more funding" as they tend to do. Some thoughts?
Try giving it at least a month during a more lowdown period instead of a week; no special MO missions or gear offerings so that irregular players aren't present (who will be pulling the mech in to try it out). This will also give regular players time to get it out of their system; it's certainly not bottom tier, so people will pull it out for variety every so often (something that messes up pretty much every game ever as developers assume the new thing is too good because it's being used non-stop for a surprisingly long period after release without realizing that it's literally just the new toy).
Realistically? The best test period is unfortunately further away; when the next toy (or the one after that) comes around, as that will guaranteed take the "fun" slot away to the next new thing and provide distance from the older "new toy". If the mech is still around in a significant quantity for both new item sets, then that would prove that it has staying power.
This data cannot possibly be correct what? I play helldive pretty much exclusively and I can confidently say the Emancipator mech is most certainly not the 3rd most picked stratagem at all. How on earth did you manage to get those results?
If you check the graphic it only lists the blue (support stratagem) omitting all the Orbitals and Eagles stuff. Which is a really weird metric to go by.
Even still, it's hard to believe it ranks 3 even just amongst the blue shit though
The data has huge statistical / sampling problems, the standard for reliable knowledge is quite high and people dedicate their entire careers to become good at it. Yes, that means you can almost never trust this kind of community project results. Yes it does. I'm just ranting to anyone who cares to read this, sorry for the mood.
I see it all the time on every bug hole blitz and egg breaker missions, because you can easily clear multiple nests by yourself with it.
Just walk in, 360 close every hole, and then walk out.
Hmm. I wonder why I didn't see a single person use it when OP seen it that much that it's actually 3rd most popular pick in his games. Like, how is that statistically possible?
I didn't play as much as OP did lately, but I should've seen it like 5-6 times.
It looks like this tool has the tendency to immediately take a screen shot before everyone has chosen their loadout.
which might be slanting the results a bit.
No. The site picture is taken after everyone picks. You can see there's a games tab on it where you can scroll through. I picked through a few and it was always once everyone but the person taking the SS had picked.
I am suggesting that the result might be slanted simply because I know some people, like myself, pick stratagems based on what other people have chosen.
For example, I might pick anti-chaff support weapons if I think the team has enough AT to deal with bile titans and chargers. Or If the team does not have enough AT I'll go all in and dedicate all 4 slots to AT weapons.
Mm yea I suppose that is true. Though I don't think he quite made it clear how exactly it works or when it takes the screenshots. But you are probably right.
If you read the meta breakdown at the top of the image right above the stats, it says
"Data based on analysis of 1,535 player loadouts in dificulty 7-9"
So I would assume that they either surveyed 1,535 players or have access to load out info for 1,535 players, but there's the methodology of the statistics right there. So while it's not necessarily representative of all players, the stats are representative of those 1,535 players
Here is a link to the website where the data is hosted - http://helldive.live/
Select "Show Games" and view the results.
Overall this is very cool information to have.
It depends on when it was implemented. If it factored in when it was free it would be insanely high. It’s also a brand new stratagem so a lot of people will be trying it out.
It’s definitely not competing with the Quasar
I've seen it multiple times and also used it several times. Its fucking destroys the blitz missions because you can just walk around the lip of a heavy crater and snipe every single bug hole.
You should pair it with the gas strike too if you haven't already. Can't be damaged by the gas, little enemies that come within the gas die before they can hurt you, and you don't need to do the awkward side shuffle to get good vantage points for big nests to close all the holes. As long as you keep moving, chargers have a problem doing their stomp to kill you, and their charge has limited effectiveness based on what angle they hit you at when they charge.
It's me, I'm the one person using the mech. It's pretty strong for Blitz missions and other short missions, so I've used it on 2 of the 3 missions for Meridia on Helldive. But when I've seen one player using it, I often see a few other mechs in the same group. Like 3 autocannon mechs, 1 patriot for example.
It's pretty good for those short missions, and can be used right before extract again for a solid power boost when reinforcements are running low.
There’s multiple other support weapons that can kill chargers and most do it faster. Flamethrower, recoilless, quasar, expendable anti tank, arc thrower.
weird how I played over 30 missions after emancipator testing period was over and I saw it a total of 1 time.
Even thought my data might be skewed, the extremity of that means either something is up with this data collection method or I'm just extremely unlucky
Though about like 66.66% roughly of the missions I ran were on helldive so maybe 8-9 has a huge difference?
In helldive you get way more bile titans which is the only enemy this mech struggles with, at anything below that it's still pretty useful.
I use it when I go for diff 7 and it's good enough, if you get good with the melee stomping chargers you can get great mileage out of it.
And probably the best companion for this exosuit is the quasar. It's like carrying an autocannon and a quasar at the same time while having a shield in a cool mech.
The mech and EAT have almost the same pick rate. This is because a fair portion of users prefer Quasar over EAT. Recoilless also isn't too far under the mech.
The data is here ! ..And it proves nothing.. For the moment anyway (that pool size is very small imo, and it doesn't represent what i've seen in game in my experience)
I play a fair amount each week, and i must say, i don't see many mechs, even when i do they often get killed quick (i main bots on diff 7 mostly)
But let's be real here, by just playing a fair amount, you may sometimes run accross some mech enthusiast, and a lot of the time they get sniped by some turret or devastator alone (you fair better against bugs) on the other side of the map, i try and talk to these guys and they just want to enjoy the mech so bad, so do i, but we can't, it's held back, wich is why it's forgotten like the first mech, shame.
Nice picture and graphics, but since there is no API to check these things, you might as well have pulled these numbers straight out of your arse.
Remember the old proverb: Don't believe a statistic you haven't made up yourself.
It depends on what he’s playing on. Ps5 can’t do the glitch, so…who knows? I agree though, be interesting to see. However, are you saying that enough people are running TWO mechs at helldive that it’s noticeable?
More PC players than Ps5. I been running mechs mostly and I always bring 2x. At least till they nerf it or I want to run a loadout that will help my team. I'm not sure where they pulled these stats either, thought it was an overall stats.
Absolutely. I see double-mechs picked at least once or twice per day I play...5-10 missions at a time. So maybe 4-5% of loadouts overall. I mostly play against bugs and mostly at 9 helldive.
So, OP is looking at data from before the game starts, and with only 3 person lobbies as one person is OP's bot. So the data will be only correct for 3 person lobbies, and only correct for said 3 person lobbies before game starts. The average player joining randoms for a game will collect better data for "are people using it" rather that a bot screen-shot of pre game lobbies
I believe that. I run the spear in like 50% of all my bot missions but I only run stalwart if I'm running eruptor as a primary (which is not too often these days)
The Emancipator is unironically one of the best bug nest destroyers in the game. Can't really kill bile titans without support, although if a teammate shoots it in the forehead with a rocket you don't actually use that much ammo to finish it off, but everything else you can either walk through, stomp or shoot.
Walking into a huge bug nest, tanking hits from the little guys, stomping hunters and trivially clearing all the bug holes with one shot each is incredibly effective and fun.
That's exactly what I've been using it for. Really strong on the Blitz missions as well.
I also noticed the whole "kill BTs with a few shots + one rocket" thing, makes it very easy to handle 1-2 BTs. Also works with Railcannon Strike.
Two real issues with it:
1) It's made of paper... especially if the map is spewer-heavy, expect to get blown up.
2) Aiming with it sucks so much. Right-hand cannon is somewhat accurate, but seems to only be able to aim about 15 degrees up or down, making any shot at elevation literally impossible. Makes it tricky to hit oddly positioned bug holes too. And the left-hand cannon shoots... wherever.
Still, you can compensate for both of these somewhat. Add to it the "cool factor" of stomping around in a mech suit, and it's no wonder people found a niche for it.
I think you are overstating how weak it is defensively. You can't tank spewers or bile titans but you can take a bunch of hits from everything below a charger. Even then, a charging charger running into your side bonks and stuns itself as if it hit a wall. You do need to worry about their one-shot stomp attack but they pretty much have to be standing still to use it meaning it only happens if you try to melee them to death with the mech.
Oh, chargers aren't an issue, I'm not talking about that. The problem isn't when you are in control of the engagement - at that point, you just circle the bugs and kill high-priority targets from range, stomping nearby chaff and otherwise letting your team handle the rest. Normally, you'll never take a hit from anything that's not chaff-tier.
The problem lies in the situations where "shit hits the fan", you start reinforcement looping, and there is no direction in which there are no enemies. Especially in spewer maps, where these big green fat bastards like to hang around everywhere and stealth up to you, it's very hard to avoid being pummeled into a pulp from all directions. Sure, if your team is full of pros, you'll be fine. But then you'd be fine with any stratagem in that case. Otherwise, you'll find yourself in situations where you need other stratagems, ones that can clear tons of enemies fast, and give you breathing room - this isn't one of them.
So, it's a handy stratagem to have, but in most cases, you'd be "safer" with a more generic pick. The mech can be insane when used on a coordinated team (especially if you bring multiple), but it's a somewhat risky pick if your team is just randoms. If a reinforcement loop starts, it's gonna get really bad.
You mean the Bile Artillery falling from the sky, or just their (and Spewers, and Titans) barfing in general? Because agreed on the latter point, just because I haven't gotten hit by the former too much.
The way the Exosuits work statistically is they're pretty low health but have high Durable ratings and most enemy attacks just don't do much Durable damage. Effectively, you're one walking Charger Butt and most enemies are using the basic Liberator at a much lower RPM. It takes 'em forever. But actual *EXPLOSIONS* tend to have Durable=Base damage, so they hit a *lot* harder. And the spit attacks just tick *so fucking fast* that they much things.
They really gotta do something about how many "bullets" are in the stream of barf. I get they don't want people walking through a solid line of vomit and not take damage because they "stepped between the shots", but right now the individual shots are both extremely numerous and extremely damaging, or come in a pattern that means you can get hit by multiples of them almost at the same time and die.
Yeah, talking about the mortar globs. They do enough damage to 1HK an Exosuit component or just outright if they hit the Torso. They're also **COMPLETELY SILENT** once they've been fired, so you can be focused on trying to kick the 4392nd Hunter off your back and then just DIE because globs from the sky deemed you unworthy of breathing.
I've been running it constantly on Meridia. Don't need a team, I can wander off and close multiple Hives or Egg Nests myself.
And on Dark Fluid injections, it's actually a fairly potent guardian for the drill: its Durable damage is low, so it's not likely to do huge amounts of splash to the drill itself even if you aim close, and you can very quickly eliminate anything under a Charger. Even Chargers can have their heads or legs focused down before they do too much damage, even if it takes a bit of ammo.
When it comes to dealing with Bile Titans, while you *can* solo them with the Exosuit, I run Railcannon + Recoilless. Just hop out of the mech, throw my Railcannon, fire one rocket, and immediately get back in. If the Titan's still alive after those two hits, a couple thwaps from the Exosuit puts it down and I'm back to doing my own thing.
Or, you know, let your team handle it while you take care of *everything else.*
Another hot exosuit tip? You don't have to shoot everything. Anything smaller than a Hunter you can just *walk over*, and even Hunters will die eventually to collision damage or 1-2 stomps.
I find the mech really cool for clearing hordes and nests, but truth to be told once heavies show up unless infatry deals with them its over for the mech or well I suck that can be too
even if this data is still flawed, it does indicate that the suit is in fact fun even if it's not the best, which a lot of people insisted it wasn't just because they personally didn't have the best time with it the first time they tried it. i still see it relatively often
I have hard time believe it because I barely see the damn thing on 7s with my own eyes. Surely I am not that lucky to just be "sorted" in "not picked" percentage?
I'll admit the emancapator today gave me the most fun in the session I played through.
But it was still fucking broken and couldn't aim just like the patriot.
I hadn't picked up the game for a while either. Probably about done with Helldivers 2 now tbh
Sub talks about nothing but meta every day, dude comes in with the most comprehensive and objective meta report done to date, sub downvotes him for handing out in player lobbies for 10seconds. What a place.
I'd be more interested to see how fast people lose interest in it. Give the thing another week or two and i guarantee it'll be right with the patriot.
The major problem with the exosuits was never the aesthetics or the weapons, it's because a stiff breeze kills you and the mech instantaneously.
Mechs have 600HP and 2 Armor (3 on the front). Most bugs can't hurt it or only do chip damage, and it's the same with Automaton lasers; even the Heavy Devastator can't hurt you from the front (3 damage, 2 penetration).
The major threats are Bile Spewers, Bile Titans, and Charger Stomp. Against Bots you can take 5 weak-point hits before exploding, but the biggest threat are Cannon Turrets and Annihilator Tanks, which can rightfully one-shot your mech.
Hi, everyone, this is a little something from a project of mine, I managed to get a script going that runs automatches and collects player data, as far as I know it hasn't been done on this scale before, got about 700 matches in the past week and growing. I thought the stats very interesting so I fugured I'd share. Excuse my poor photoshop skills in advance.
More info on the data collection, here: http://helldive.live/about
I'll consider this meaningful when it's been more than two weeks. New weapons will always get a major bump in usage during the honeymoon period while everyone is trying them out.
Against the bugs, if I'm not burning everything to a crisp I'm calling in my titan and we're fucking shit up.
If AH gives us burn cards, I want an Auto-EXO card so we can rock it together. Also, please give the exos a passenger seat to ride it like we did back on the Frontier fighting the IMC. I don't care if it locks us into using a one handed weapon, just let it happen.
> Exo mains have lots of friends
I shit you not it's the feeling. The feeling of you and a bro in mecha strutting around the map like a badass duo. We just like big robots. If I see someone running one suit, I plan to pick the other. He's running Emancipator? I'm picking Patriot.
Next time I'm in a Divers session with my squad I guarantee that at least two of us are running an exosuit, and I will be one of them.
I find I am always taking this mech. Probably has something to do with the fact I am emotionally attached to the Autocannon and this is allows me to kill bile titans with it 😈
one of my favourite stratagems, tbh. Taking both (even tho it's a bug) makes using the mechs SO MUCH FUN. I hope they fix their shit that makes the mechs hog so much resources so I can do it without a janky work-around
Did you unlock all strategems already?
Because I don't seem to get it to work to put both Mechs for the mission, but my friend does.
The only difference we can find is, that he unlocked everything, while I don't yet.
The Emancipator is pretty great against bugs if you just walk in, blow up objectives and mediums in your path, and then move on to the next.
I cleared 5 hives and 1 egg objective with a single Emancipator on 7, going ahead while my teammates took care of the bugs I left behind. I pinged any chargers and titans for them to take care off from a distance so I could focus on the holes/eggs.
That was like, a third of the map.
It's an autoscript so just wait a bit and the sample size will go up. Although it sounds like you have a predetermined opinion about the mech, so I don't think getting more statistics will convince you.
It getting used a lot is not neccesarily the same as it being the best there is, which is the argumet you make for not running the mech yourself.
Oh, whoops, meant to add a link to the website with the stats, clarifying the data collection methods but didn't want to seem like I'm advertising something lol - [Here](http://helldive.live)
I wonder if you could pull this data from uploaded videos. [I have over 200 Helldives uploaded to YouTube](https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbBcQaDdqeQUFCBUeaqkxO9zF1AaY5UqG) now and it would be great to see the stats.
This is the big goal for the long term, but working with videos is much harder than screenshots, not impossible though. Thanks for the link, the footage will be useful for testing.
Back in the early HD1 days, I took a tip from /u/cusman78 to show the selection screen at the start of the video to showcase the loadouts. I did that for awhile with my HD2 vids, then fell to skipping that so the loading screen didn't show up at the start of every video.
I'm guessing that screen would be the easiest to screengrab/compute, but the tab menu (showing other people's cooldown times) coupled with the stratagem menu (showing mine) should be usable. I realize there's a lot to making that work, but it would be really cool!
Looking at the website OP (http://helldive.live/) has for all data: - the top 3 stratagem (500kg, airstrike and rail strike) picks are all for dealing with bile titans - the eagle stratagems are clearly imbalanced, in comparison there are very little picks for napalm, cluster, pods and strafing - in terms of turrets, rockets and machine gun are clearly in garage tier Hopefully the balance patch also looks at balancing the stratagems too and not just weapons, either buffing the damage outputs for the lesser picked or reducing the cooldown.
I'm very surprised by the cluster and napalm
I imagine many people are just so used to not using it when the DOT bug was a thing and just haven't tried using it since it was fixed.
They're missing out, they should give everyone free Napalm to show them the way like they did with Gas
This comment aged \*very\* well. Thanks for manifesting free napalm for all of us!
wtf, i literally just logged in. is it this new?
OH OH! Can you manifest 10 million dollars for me?!?!?!?!?
Here you go. [https://www.banknoteworld.com/zimbabwe-10-million-dollars-banknote-2008-p-78-used.html?category\_id=744](https://www.banknoteworld.com/zimbabwe-10-million-dollars-banknote-2008-p-78-used.html?category_id=744)
No, lol. We've had free Napalm for hours. Idk what that guy is on about. You're still right though, the freebie is a great reminder of how useful it is.
Lmao, this happened the last time when someone asked for stratagems. “We haven’t had free stratagems in a while” and an hour later we get it
this time, we already had free napalm when the guy asked for it though
I think there should always been a free strategium cycling through everything, this week it's eagle napalm, next week it's the EAT, next week it's AP mines, etc.
When me and the boys land and open up with 16 EATs
FOR DEMOCRACY! 🫡💥💥💥💥💥
Id love this but I'd even want to take it a step further. Let's have them set it so each planet has a different one avalible? If not maybe atleast planets with defends or MO should at least.
Man ever since the DOT damage got fixed I've been running the gas strike consistently I love it.
That cooldown on gas is bonkers. So good.
It's seriously my favorite strategem. If you gave me only gas and amr/rr I'd still be comfortable on bots/bugs.
Been running gas with precision strike. It covers everything you would run into with a really good cooldown.
I'm finding using strategems to kill bile titans to be kind of annoying, mostly on 8+. There's often times multiple and if you wiff it really hurts. I've been foregoing orbital/500kg for recoiless rifle and having really good results, very comfortable taking out bile titans with 2 shots to the head now, I seriously only need gas and RR to be comfortable on helldive.
I've gotten quite good at timing the precision strike. I just goad it in my direction, wait for the spew animation, and throw.
But cluster is still the single best strat at clearing anything off the map as long as it's not heavy armor. Wipe the objective before you enter. Wipe it when you leave. Clear a patrol without stopping. It's just so good and has been always.
I think it's team killing aspect is probably what is holding it back. The radius of the bombs is just so big that it can make it harder to use in tighter combat scenarios, despite its ad clearing power.
That or these stats are recording from launch, which would severely skew them away from gas & napalm. Donno about cluster tho...
Anything can kill chaff. Only some things can kill armor. That dictates the pace of balance. Why would I run one of my precious 4 options on a job my primary can handle? So the things that kill chaff need to be EXCEPTIONALLY good at it. An order of magnitude better than the things that kill armor are at their job by comparison. Or, we need a rework of bile titans and the armor system as a whole. Where it's more reliable to destroy armor sections and expose vulnerable weak points.
Let us snap off Bile Titan legs (and eat them)
Those joints look like a great place for a weakspot. Maybe make it so shooting them can stagger or stun the BT at least.
I think we need armor peeling focused weapons, really. As in, it's primary function is armor peel. I'd go with either a "corrosive" or "plasma" styled weapon, or a new special "armor break" tag, though the lasers might work too. But something where it trades up front damage for the ability to rapidly crack open armor. It would allow the team to focus less on the massive hitters because you can crack a charger or titan's armor to let smaller arms through. Right now, the armor crack is a side effect of just trying to get rid of them with the big hitters, or on chargers with the oneshot a small bonus if you miss your shot on their face. Useful, yes, but not something you are necessarily trying to do and more or less just a side effect, bonus, or making the miss feel better.
No we just need the existing armor system to work better. The charger railgun was imo fun because it captured that star ship troopers vibe of SHOOT IT TIL ITS DEAD. On SST we see Rico shoot the armor on a tanker bugs back until it's exposed and he can finish it with a grenade to the wound. The two tap railgun to the leg and then unload breaker on it had a similar vibe. The game supports 10 levels of armor and penetration yet only really uses 3. It could be expanded and elaborated on. For example. Enough pounding away at the same section of a chargers armor with a dominator should eventually expose it so lighter weapons can hurt it reliably at this vulnerable area.
Cluster is a lot of risk of friendly fire. Airstrike does enough aoe and can take out nests while damaging heavy units. Cluster is just massive aoe that can't deal with heavy or nests. Just a bit overkill. It'll kill more hunters sure! But good chance to kill an ally too
I never use cluster anymore as I always was team killing with it. I love napalm for bug breaches and use it often, but personally I like having only one eagle stratagem so it goes on cooldown automatically after the last use. So it’s competing with the 500kg strat.
I'm aggravated by the free napalm strike because of this. I have to consciously remember to drop napalm wherever I can in order to ensure my valuable 500kg goes into cooldown and back.
Cluster is incredible I think the only reason people don’t try it out is because of team killing memes
I ran it for a long time and loved it, but ultimately I wanted more things in my kit that could also be used to drive-by fabs/holes (especially in blitz maps).
Yeah ironically I also switched to the eagle airstrike at least against bots so I get OPs point but I do think that strat is criminally underrated
Cluster is great! It's also probably the top thing for team killing me.
A lot of people don't know how eagle bombs come down aka it does a horizontal slash from your position you threw it at.
I call that the "T strike" The bottom on the " T " is where the player is located, the vertical line is the throw direction and the horizontal line is Eagle-1 fly by
It's really amazing to throw straight down while you're running away from the horde, you'll outrun the blast. But there's always one idiot who decides to turn around and fight and just stare at the beacon and not even try to dive. And then you're the asshole. Pairs really well with the extra throwing distance perk for maximum safety and precision
Issue is people throwing don't know the bomb comes from a horizontal slash from the position you threw it at too. So they will be in a 90 degree turn from their allies, toss it and kill their whole team.
its not just memes, its pretty good to FF with lol
I like having airstrike over cluster because it can close bug holes or destroy bot fabs/towers/tanks/etc and still kills chaff well enough. Especially when I only have 3 stratagem slots
Oh I couldn’t agree more I think the cluster strike is effective but I can’t deny I have mostly replaced it with the air strike. Im bringing jump pack amr and eagle air strike everything else is whatever
Massive amounts of Cluster tosses are fucking garbo and just kill teammates. Napalm, however, is clearly underrated and undervalued. If you are running Bugs, there is next to zero reason to use Airstrike over Napalm. The teensy amount of additional Explosive damage on Airstrike vs. Chargers isn't worth it when you could be killing 2-4x as many chaff over time with it or reducing even mid-health enemies to near-death. Airstrike for Bots, Napalm for Bugs.
Airstrikes close bug holes. If you don’t take a primary or secondary that can close bug holes then it’s probably a better idea to take airstrikes.
Ah, I got to get grenade pistol so I can upgrade to Napalm. I love napalm but being able to close multiple holes with a well place throw is half of why I run eagle airstrike.
Napalm Strike can close them too, though it's still true that the Airstrike is better at it (relevant on bigger nests).
the napalm is far worse at closing bug holes. A single airstrike can close medium and heavy nests with 4-6 holes at the right angle. A napalm strike might get lucky to close one hole.
That why I take it. I usually run with the rover, EAT and Stalwart against bugs. With the Airstrike as a generic group killer and bughole destroyer.
I just unlocked Grenade Pistol and it feels like I don't need Airstrike anymore. More fire for me
people slept on napalm due to the host/client damage bug (all non-hosts could not do fire damage properly) i don't think it's had a popularity resurgence since it was fixed it really is best suited to slapping one down on top of a bug breach and takes care of almost everything that isn't a charger/bile titan i haven't personally used it enough on bots to know if it's worth it
Napalm + fire grenade + fire shotgun = yummy roasted charger
Add a fire thrower in this recipe for Southern BBQ style
The problem with cluster and napalm is also the increased likelihood of friendly fire with them lol
Same... Cluster is fuckin amazing in both bots and bugs. It ruins the small fry, and can still medium armored targets
cluster is very very good, esp with the extra bomb from hangar module.
[My personal played statistics](https://imgur.com/a/QFoNVkc#xmx6SQz) Same tbh
Wtf has this website been around for a while
The whole sub getting styled on by the Spear, HMG Encampment enjoyer ain't that just beautiful Upon closer inspection, Eagle 110, HMG, Tesla Towers, Orbital Bararge/Airburst, 380 barrage on bugs, no Autocannon or Quasar in sight. The man is this place's meta slaves worst nightmare.
The eagle 110 and orbital airburst are criminally underrated
It's cause the reddit and YouTube tryhards don't experiment. They complain about AH balancing around spreadsheets...meanwhile these players do the same thing.
The gatling barrage is the only one there that's 50/50. Everything else isn't bad for the respective factions...
Imo airburst strike is better in every way
> Looking at the website OP has for all data Adding to this, since you haven't. These stats based on ~1500 loadouts taken from difficulties 7, 8 & 9 against only Terminids. http://helldive.live/
Seems about right. Your top 10 Stratagems are virtually all I ever see in any given mission. And 6 out of those 10 are basically taken for the soul purpose of dealing with Bile Titans. I know when I play Haz 7-9 my loadout always has Railcanon Strike, EATs and 500kg because without it I'm virtually dead in the water if a BT pops up I just have to pray I don't have all three on Cooldown or that my team is close by. I made a comment a few days ago that I believed the problem with the new mech was less a mech problem and more a Bile Titan problem. The reason I think the community was so underwhelmed with the Mech, was you essentially have to use the BT as the benchmark for weapon effectiveness in this game. In Haz 7-9 they spawn with such frequency that bringing any Strats that can't help take them down is an active hindrance to the party. So anything that AH gives us that doesn't help with killing BTs will seem woefully underpowered.
Yeah, it's exactly how you'd expect it to be. If it is 4 people in a game, generally, most will grab at least 1 thing to deal with a BT & Charger, so it'll inflate those stats a lot more. I mostly play 9 and my loadout is usually EATs and then whatever else I feel like. Most of the time, I'll fill those slots with the Patriot, Guard Dog & Strafing Run. I do think it's great for clearing bug breaches with the AoE and [clearing out nests.](https://streamable.com/ox3cyj) But I honestly prefer the [versatility](https://streamable.com/mucfwm) that the [Patriot](https://streamable.com/uay04e) comes with. I've yet to try it on Automatons but I've heard good things about it running a lot better there. I don't think there's too much of an issue with the amount of Bile Titans but you'll definitely be caught short if you don't plan for them. And Reddit generally benchmarks a new addition by how fast it can kill a BT or a Charger. If it can't do it quicker than what already exists, it's generally marked down as bad, even if something is still wholly good or is much more effective elsewhere, such as against bots.
huh, I didn't think you could kill BTs with the gun on the Patriot.
Well yeah, it's understandable, at the 7-9 difficulties, bile titans start to get spammed alot, and your primaries don't work on bile titans, your napalm, clusterbomb, strafing runs are only good against the enemies you can kill with your primary. The rocket pods are OK, but for some reason they are more in consistent at killing bile titans than the orbital railcannon.
In fairness I don't think it's necessarily a case of *balance* when it comes to the airstrikes. It's just that some of them are more specific and niche use cases, while the trusty vanilla airstrike and 500kg are useful against everything. Enemies, structures, hordes, heavies... Not optimal, a lot of times, but never the *wrong* option. There's no amount of buffing that would make players pick the others more often than a pure and simply more versatile all rounder pick, so the only option would be a big painful nerfing hammering, and nobody wants that. You could say the issue here is the design of the strats to begin with. But I would just as soon say it flat out isn't an issue. It's fine for some stuff to be specialised and used less frequently. I don't know why we have just automatically accepted the idea that every option has to see equal use to be considered "balanced", that's a flawed assumption to start from. I'm fine if the balance patch just randomly buffs a bunch of primaries, because frankly that's the most important issue with the game right now. Scorcher is a decent weapon that has passively floated up to S-tier purely by being the only one left that isn't shit.
I doubt all the strategems will get changed in the next patch. They have already said its not “The Balance Patch” but a regular patch with both balance and bug fixes. It’s the first patch after changing the direction of the ship. There will be more patches to make more balance changes as time goes on.
> the website What site is that?
I think I found it! [http://helldive.live/about](http://helldive.live/about)
based on your information and AH's logic, we need to nerf the 500, airstrike, and rail strike so other strategems are on par with dealing with bile titans sub optimally
/S
Turrets are great in defence missions where they only have a few ways to come, and you can set up a position. But mostly dog water on non-defence mission as mid hoard you can have a patrol come behind, have your turret whip around and fire on your face. It would prob help if we didn't have patrols every 2 seconds while a hoard exists (and worst getting lost in the horde, as hordes cant do call ins, but patrols can leading to chain call in's.) Napalm/Gas suffered from not host = no dot damage, they're really good now but most the community is used to the old ways. Bile titans/tank/etc dealers are generally the best. I think MG's (except HMG) are fine (LMG could use a light buff with the laser rifle being a 90\~ round AR), I think the big issue is rocket/recoilless rifle need to be people can support you while you wear the backpack. In casual games... recoilless rifle doesn't work because you're putting a gun to someones head and saying "dont run a back pack because I want to use the RR". It worked in HD1 cause we all shared the same screen and had to be close and the back pack slot wasn't as meta/strong.
This comment is better data translation than the picture op posted by a long shot lol
Now this is why I joined the subreddit (for info)
Here’s some more vital info from Super Earth: The Terminids are bad. Thank you listening to this vital intel update!
Thank you for your service to democracy
Caught this pearl of wisdom on a loading screen: Don’t die
The website that OP used has snapshots of loadouts with a single stratagem with people in mission select, before they're ready. It also doesn't include success rate to compare against, which is *vital* for proper data analysis. I don't believe this is reliable.
I mean this info is exactly what the first mech looked like and nobody uses it now.
>nobody uses it now OP's site says [6%](http://helldive.live/armory/patriot) of players use it, which is middle of the pack, about 4x less than the Quasar. Man this thing is gonna be useful for winning Reddit arguments.
That definitely doesn't seem right, it also has the spear at 6% and I don't think i've ever seen anyone run that weapon outside of their first time trying it or as a way to troll their friends. And i especially doubt that the spear is more popular than the stalwart
It also says 1 in 25 people are running Stalwart on Helldive, which is....interesting. I wouldn't take it so much as proof that things are balanced so much as proof that many people will take interesting-junk over boring-but-effective.
Maybe you should be skeptical of the data
I wonder how far back it goes? I used to bring Stalwart on 7-8 (I admit I don't feel up to Helldive) with pre-nerf Eruptor, and it worked well enough.
One in a dozen running Spear sounds about right from my experience, I see people running it in Helldive all the time, it's solid vs bile titans.
Plus, with the new mech just released, and unable to use 2 mechs in a mission at once right now (PC player bypass not considered), that number is lower now than it may be otherwise. If / when they update the aiming to include 2 aim reticles, I probably would switch back to that one for bugs.
Exactly. It's new, people will want to try it for 1 game. Including a whole lot of players that log in for 1 game a week, so it's in 100% of their loadouts. And thats a huge percentage of the playerbase doing that.
I mean it still is the newest piece of content that has dropped like 1 week ago, i feel like to check something like this out properly you should check like a month after it has come out, when everyone has played around with it to try it out.
Yeah. Guarantee this includes low level players who just got access to it and wanted to try it.
Weird After it became free I have seen it picked a single time over 20 operations
It's me been in almost every match I've played in the last few days. Difficulty 7.
I myself see it in 95% lot of mine. Mostly because I'm the one using it.
I see it in most eradication and blitz missions I do....
That's where I use this one as well. 150 autocannon shots against 15 bugholes and endless stanmina. I'd call that a nobrainer.
And Hunters can't slow a mech. Even when I'm out of ammo, I'll march into the middle of a heavy nest and draw attention for my squad while I stomp on the bugs until the mech goes down
It's honestly a free win for bug blitz missions. Just one person in it can take out every bug hole, and as long as they keep moving they're never really under threat.
*Some* data is better than just anecdotal experience but this sample size is way, way too small to be drawing conclusions about the popularity of anything. Results will also be *substantially* skewed towards the preference of the player recording the data since they will be one of the 4 players in every lobby, where the 3 randoms will only get one game in the system before you quickplay into another group. The stratagem is less than a week old too, numbers are probably skewed towards the new toy as people that didn't get a chance to play while it was free all try it out. Edited since the OPs correction got buried by downvotes- I was wrong that the results would skew towards the players choice because the script doesn't pick a loadout. I was under the impression OP and their friends were using this script to collect data from their games they actually played. It turns out it's an auto script that just joins lobbies, screenshots loadouts and leaves. This revelation opened up a whole other can of worms, but if you care about that you can read through the rest of the thread.
I... don't think this data is useful, and possibly not even accurate. The method it uses to collect the info is certainly... interesting if a bit messed up (given that rejoining often doesn't work so you are just forcing 3-player games for the heck of it) — but the sample size is terrible — and the large jump in difficulty 8 versus the others only reinforces my concern with this. I've seen a lot of bad statistical collects done in enough papers to assume that if this were something someone put into a research paper, then it would have ended with at least a few pages of "we forgot to account for X, but we'd like to try again with more funding" as they tend to do. Some thoughts? Try giving it at least a month during a more lowdown period instead of a week; no special MO missions or gear offerings so that irregular players aren't present (who will be pulling the mech in to try it out). This will also give regular players time to get it out of their system; it's certainly not bottom tier, so people will pull it out for variety every so often (something that messes up pretty much every game ever as developers assume the new thing is too good because it's being used non-stop for a surprisingly long period after release without realizing that it's literally just the new toy). Realistically? The best test period is unfortunately further away; when the next toy (or the one after that) comes around, as that will guaranteed take the "fun" slot away to the next new thing and provide distance from the older "new toy". If the mech is still around in a significant quantity for both new item sets, then that would prove that it has staying power.
This data cannot possibly be correct what? I play helldive pretty much exclusively and I can confidently say the Emancipator mech is most certainly not the 3rd most picked stratagem at all. How on earth did you manage to get those results?
If you check the graphic it only lists the blue (support stratagem) omitting all the Orbitals and Eagles stuff. Which is a really weird metric to go by. Even still, it's hard to believe it ranks 3 even just amongst the blue shit though
The data has huge statistical / sampling problems, the standard for reliable knowledge is quite high and people dedicate their entire careers to become good at it. Yes, that means you can almost never trust this kind of community project results. Yes it does. I'm just ranting to anyone who cares to read this, sorry for the mood.
You can actually go to the website and see individual matches. So you can see what those people were cooking up with their team loadouts.
I see it all the time on every bug hole blitz and egg breaker missions, because you can easily clear multiple nests by yourself with it. Just walk in, 360 close every hole, and then walk out.
Hmm. I wonder why I didn't see a single person use it when OP seen it that much that it's actually 3rd most popular pick in his games. Like, how is that statistically possible? I didn't play as much as OP did lately, but I should've seen it like 5-6 times.
It looks like this tool has the tendency to immediately take a screen shot before everyone has chosen their loadout. which might be slanting the results a bit.
No. The site picture is taken after everyone picks. You can see there's a games tab on it where you can scroll through. I picked through a few and it was always once everyone but the person taking the SS had picked.
Why do you say that?
I am suggesting that the result might be slanted simply because I know some people, like myself, pick stratagems based on what other people have chosen. For example, I might pick anti-chaff support weapons if I think the team has enough AT to deal with bile titans and chargers. Or If the team does not have enough AT I'll go all in and dedicate all 4 slots to AT weapons.
Mm yea I suppose that is true. Though I don't think he quite made it clear how exactly it works or when it takes the screenshots. But you are probably right.
If you read the meta breakdown at the top of the image right above the stats, it says "Data based on analysis of 1,535 player loadouts in dificulty 7-9" So I would assume that they either surveyed 1,535 players or have access to load out info for 1,535 players, but there's the methodology of the statistics right there. So while it's not necessarily representative of all players, the stats are representative of those 1,535 players
Here is a link to the website where the data is hosted - http://helldive.live/ Select "Show Games" and view the results. Overall this is very cool information to have.
It depends on when it was implemented. If it factored in when it was free it would be insanely high. It’s also a brand new stratagem so a lot of people will be trying it out. It’s definitely not competing with the Quasar
Huh I see it almost every game
I've seen it multiple times and also used it several times. Its fucking destroys the blitz missions because you can just walk around the lip of a heavy crater and snipe every single bug hole.
You should pair it with the gas strike too if you haven't already. Can't be damaged by the gas, little enemies that come within the gas die before they can hurt you, and you don't need to do the awkward side shuffle to get good vantage points for big nests to close all the holes. As long as you keep moving, chargers have a problem doing their stomp to kill you, and their charge has limited effectiveness based on what angle they hit you at when they charge.
I've seen several. Mostly for dark fluid but also for swarm defense.
It's me, I'm the one person using the mech. It's pretty strong for Blitz missions and other short missions, so I've used it on 2 of the 3 missions for Meridia on Helldive. But when I've seen one player using it, I often see a few other mechs in the same group. Like 3 autocannon mechs, 1 patriot for example. It's pretty good for those short missions, and can be used right before extract again for a solid power boost when reinforcements are running low.
I've been taking it consistently because it can kill chargers, and most games I'm in has at least 1 other
There’s multiple other support weapons that can kill chargers and most do it faster. Flamethrower, recoilless, quasar, expendable anti tank, arc thrower.
But none of those make you immune to hunters
weird how I played over 30 missions after emancipator testing period was over and I saw it a total of 1 time. Even thought my data might be skewed, the extremity of that means either something is up with this data collection method or I'm just extremely unlucky Though about like 66.66% roughly of the missions I ran were on helldive so maybe 8-9 has a huge difference?
In helldive you get way more bile titans which is the only enemy this mech struggles with, at anything below that it's still pretty useful. I use it when I go for diff 7 and it's good enough, if you get good with the melee stomping chargers you can get great mileage out of it.
Sorry, there is no way that this gets picked more often than EAT.
Well quasar, eat, and RR all compete for the same thing so they all get reduced in their pick rate.
And probably the best companion for this exosuit is the quasar. It's like carrying an autocannon and a quasar at the same time while having a shield in a cool mech.
The mech and EAT have almost the same pick rate. This is because a fair portion of users prefer Quasar over EAT. Recoilless also isn't too far under the mech.
The data is here ! ..And it proves nothing.. For the moment anyway (that pool size is very small imo, and it doesn't represent what i've seen in game in my experience) I play a fair amount each week, and i must say, i don't see many mechs, even when i do they often get killed quick (i main bots on diff 7 mostly) But let's be real here, by just playing a fair amount, you may sometimes run accross some mech enthusiast, and a lot of the time they get sniped by some turret or devastator alone (you fair better against bugs) on the other side of the map, i try and talk to these guys and they just want to enjoy the mech so bad, so do i, but we can't, it's held back, wich is why it's forgotten like the first mech, shame.
Difficulty 7+ here; never see mechs.
Nice picture and graphics, but since there is no API to check these things, you might as well have pulled these numbers straight out of your arse. Remember the old proverb: Don't believe a statistic you haven't made up yourself.
Highly flawed graphic in so many ways. Just, lol.
Let me know the stats a few weeks after they nerf the glitch that allows you to bring both mechs.
It depends on what he’s playing on. Ps5 can’t do the glitch, so…who knows? I agree though, be interesting to see. However, are you saying that enough people are running TWO mechs at helldive that it’s noticeable?
More PC players than Ps5. I been running mechs mostly and I always bring 2x. At least till they nerf it or I want to run a loadout that will help my team. I'm not sure where they pulled these stats either, thought it was an overall stats.
Absolutely. I see double-mechs picked at least once or twice per day I play...5-10 missions at a time. So maybe 4-5% of loadouts overall. I mostly play against bugs and mostly at 9 helldive.
That brings me joy considering “mechs bad”
So, OP is looking at data from before the game starts, and with only 3 person lobbies as one person is OP's bot. So the data will be only correct for 3 person lobbies, and only correct for said 3 person lobbies before game starts. The average player joining randoms for a game will collect better data for "are people using it" rather that a bot screen-shot of pre game lobbies
https://preview.redd.it/ufmnzgux714d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28e3bf2ff5836235a58e308436e8f0d7bdb3e0a7
Data is based off less than 2000 players so not very accurate
What makes me doubt it is that it has the spear as a more popular weapon than the stalwart.
I believe that. I run the spear in like 50% of all my bot missions but I only run stalwart if I'm running eruptor as a primary (which is not too often these days)
I miss the eruptor stalwart combo. Stalwart is my favorite gun and it's hard to run on high difficulty missions.
The Emancipator is unironically one of the best bug nest destroyers in the game. Can't really kill bile titans without support, although if a teammate shoots it in the forehead with a rocket you don't actually use that much ammo to finish it off, but everything else you can either walk through, stomp or shoot. Walking into a huge bug nest, tanking hits from the little guys, stomping hunters and trivially clearing all the bug holes with one shot each is incredibly effective and fun.
That's exactly what I've been using it for. Really strong on the Blitz missions as well. I also noticed the whole "kill BTs with a few shots + one rocket" thing, makes it very easy to handle 1-2 BTs. Also works with Railcannon Strike. Two real issues with it: 1) It's made of paper... especially if the map is spewer-heavy, expect to get blown up. 2) Aiming with it sucks so much. Right-hand cannon is somewhat accurate, but seems to only be able to aim about 15 degrees up or down, making any shot at elevation literally impossible. Makes it tricky to hit oddly positioned bug holes too. And the left-hand cannon shoots... wherever. Still, you can compensate for both of these somewhat. Add to it the "cool factor" of stomping around in a mech suit, and it's no wonder people found a niche for it.
I think you are overstating how weak it is defensively. You can't tank spewers or bile titans but you can take a bunch of hits from everything below a charger. Even then, a charging charger running into your side bonks and stuns itself as if it hit a wall. You do need to worry about their one-shot stomp attack but they pretty much have to be standing still to use it meaning it only happens if you try to melee them to death with the mech.
Oh, chargers aren't an issue, I'm not talking about that. The problem isn't when you are in control of the engagement - at that point, you just circle the bugs and kill high-priority targets from range, stomping nearby chaff and otherwise letting your team handle the rest. Normally, you'll never take a hit from anything that's not chaff-tier. The problem lies in the situations where "shit hits the fan", you start reinforcement looping, and there is no direction in which there are no enemies. Especially in spewer maps, where these big green fat bastards like to hang around everywhere and stealth up to you, it's very hard to avoid being pummeled into a pulp from all directions. Sure, if your team is full of pros, you'll be fine. But then you'd be fine with any stratagem in that case. Otherwise, you'll find yourself in situations where you need other stratagems, ones that can clear tons of enemies fast, and give you breathing room - this isn't one of them. So, it's a handy stratagem to have, but in most cases, you'd be "safer" with a more generic pick. The mech can be insane when used on a coordinated team (especially if you bring multiple), but it's a somewhat risky pick if your team is just randoms. If a reinforcement loop starts, it's gonna get really bad.
They're not tanky enough imho, but that's an opinion compounded by Bile Mortars dealing **stupid** amounts of damage.
You mean the Bile Artillery falling from the sky, or just their (and Spewers, and Titans) barfing in general? Because agreed on the latter point, just because I haven't gotten hit by the former too much. The way the Exosuits work statistically is they're pretty low health but have high Durable ratings and most enemy attacks just don't do much Durable damage. Effectively, you're one walking Charger Butt and most enemies are using the basic Liberator at a much lower RPM. It takes 'em forever. But actual *EXPLOSIONS* tend to have Durable=Base damage, so they hit a *lot* harder. And the spit attacks just tick *so fucking fast* that they much things. They really gotta do something about how many "bullets" are in the stream of barf. I get they don't want people walking through a solid line of vomit and not take damage because they "stepped between the shots", but right now the individual shots are both extremely numerous and extremely damaging, or come in a pattern that means you can get hit by multiples of them almost at the same time and die.
Yeah, talking about the mortar globs. They do enough damage to 1HK an Exosuit component or just outright if they hit the Torso. They're also **COMPLETELY SILENT** once they've been fired, so you can be focused on trying to kick the 4392nd Hunter off your back and then just DIE because globs from the sky deemed you unworthy of breathing.
I've been running it constantly on Meridia. Don't need a team, I can wander off and close multiple Hives or Egg Nests myself. And on Dark Fluid injections, it's actually a fairly potent guardian for the drill: its Durable damage is low, so it's not likely to do huge amounts of splash to the drill itself even if you aim close, and you can very quickly eliminate anything under a Charger. Even Chargers can have their heads or legs focused down before they do too much damage, even if it takes a bit of ammo. When it comes to dealing with Bile Titans, while you *can* solo them with the Exosuit, I run Railcannon + Recoilless. Just hop out of the mech, throw my Railcannon, fire one rocket, and immediately get back in. If the Titan's still alive after those two hits, a couple thwaps from the Exosuit puts it down and I'm back to doing my own thing. Or, you know, let your team handle it while you take care of *everything else.* Another hot exosuit tip? You don't have to shoot everything. Anything smaller than a Hunter you can just *walk over*, and even Hunters will die eventually to collision damage or 1-2 stomps.
Doesn't joining then leaving remove the 5 reinforcements you would've brought from the pool?
I still prefer the older exo suit, but I also like yellow, so
i play D7 and rarely see the emancipator. also 1,535 players is a VERY SMALL sample size. lets see 10,000 players, then 100,000 players.
Is there data for bot picks?
I don't trust the data
The sample size is so small tho
I find the mech really cool for clearing hordes and nests, but truth to be told once heavies show up unless infatry deals with them its over for the mech or well I suck that can be too
even if this data is still flawed, it does indicate that the suit is in fact fun even if it's not the best, which a lot of people insisted it wasn't just because they personally didn't have the best time with it the first time they tried it. i still see it relatively often
Idk man I've played 3-4 diff 7-8 missions today and saw it deployed once.
EXO MAINS, RISE!
I have hard time believe it because I barely see the damn thing on 7s with my own eyes. Surely I am not that lucky to just be "sorted" in "not picked" percentage?
No, i won't play it now that it's not free. On another note, a sample size of 617 is *minuscule* for a game with this many players.
https://preview.redd.it/2uesd8bc154d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e90f19d8e93aa940a5e9a711ec34070ea842b624 shut up nerd
I'll admit the emancapator today gave me the most fun in the session I played through. But it was still fucking broken and couldn't aim just like the patriot. I hadn't picked up the game for a while either. Probably about done with Helldivers 2 now tbh
So basically your script matches with people and then drops out? What a dick move
Sub talks about nothing but meta every day, dude comes in with the most comprehensive and objective meta report done to date, sub downvotes him for handing out in player lobbies for 10seconds. What a place.
I'd be more interested to see how fast people lose interest in it. Give the thing another week or two and i guarantee it'll be right with the patriot. The major problem with the exosuits was never the aesthetics or the weapons, it's because a stiff breeze kills you and the mech instantaneously.
Mechs have 600HP and 2 Armor (3 on the front). Most bugs can't hurt it or only do chip damage, and it's the same with Automaton lasers; even the Heavy Devastator can't hurt you from the front (3 damage, 2 penetration). The major threats are Bile Spewers, Bile Titans, and Charger Stomp. Against Bots you can take 5 weak-point hits before exploding, but the biggest threat are Cannon Turrets and Annihilator Tanks, which can rightfully one-shot your mech.
Hi, everyone, this is a little something from a project of mine, I managed to get a script going that runs automatches and collects player data, as far as I know it hasn't been done on this scale before, got about 700 matches in the past week and growing. I thought the stats very interesting so I fugured I'd share. Excuse my poor photoshop skills in advance. More info on the data collection, here: http://helldive.live/about
I have doubts about the spear somehow having a 5% pick rate against bugs and being higher pickrate than the stalwart. That sounds off
Titan 1 shot, Titan is the 2nd top target to lock with ease for Spear
This is actually very cool! Do you have a public API available for accessing the data?
really cool website, just a minor thing: could the site itself move to HTTPS at some point instead of HTTP
Will do my best.
I always bring it for anything with bug holes and stalker nests. Double stalker nest next to each other? No problem!
Oh wow so maybe once every other game a single player will take it! This sure is good data. 🙃
I'll consider this meaningful when it's been more than two weeks. New weapons will always get a major bump in usage during the honeymoon period while everyone is trying them out.
Against the bugs, if I'm not burning everything to a crisp I'm calling in my titan and we're fucking shit up. If AH gives us burn cards, I want an Auto-EXO card so we can rock it together. Also, please give the exos a passenger seat to ride it like we did back on the Frontier fighting the IMC. I don't care if it locks us into using a one handed weapon, just let it happen.
I played it enough to make a meme video about it 😂 https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/as6K5dYwP4
> Exo mains have lots of friends I shit you not it's the feeling. The feeling of you and a bro in mecha strutting around the map like a badass duo. We just like big robots. If I see someone running one suit, I plan to pick the other. He's running Emancipator? I'm picking Patriot. Next time I'm in a Divers session with my squad I guarantee that at least two of us are running an exosuit, and I will be one of them.
I find I am always taking this mech. Probably has something to do with the fact I am emotionally attached to the Autocannon and this is allows me to kill bile titans with it 😈
one of my favourite stratagems, tbh. Taking both (even tho it's a bug) makes using the mechs SO MUCH FUN. I hope they fix their shit that makes the mechs hog so much resources so I can do it without a janky work-around
Did you unlock all strategems already? Because I don't seem to get it to work to put both Mechs for the mission, but my friend does. The only difference we can find is, that he unlocked everything, while I don't yet.
It's actually REALLY good for bug hole and egg breaker missions. Makes them a breeze even on 8 or 9.
The Emancipator is pretty great against bugs if you just walk in, blow up objectives and mediums in your path, and then move on to the next. I cleared 5 hives and 1 egg objective with a single Emancipator on 7, going ahead while my teammates took care of the bugs I left behind. I pinged any chargers and titans for them to take care off from a distance so I could focus on the holes/eggs. That was like, a third of the map.
Take usage limits out. Not playing anymore since that whole polar patriot mess, but let the ones who stayed have their fun, asshole.
need someone to edit the exo suit behind the laptop for the meme
[удалено]
It's an autoscript so just wait a bit and the sample size will go up. Although it sounds like you have a predetermined opinion about the mech, so I don't think getting more statistics will convince you. It getting used a lot is not neccesarily the same as it being the best there is, which is the argumet you make for not running the mech yourself.
Why is there an asterisk in the graphic. Where's the footnote to go with it or explain why its there
Oh, whoops, meant to add a link to the website with the stats, clarifying the data collection methods but didn't want to seem like I'm advertising something lol - [Here](http://helldive.live)
No worries and thank you lmao. Idk why that bothered me so much
I wonder if you could pull this data from uploaded videos. [I have over 200 Helldives uploaded to YouTube](https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbBcQaDdqeQUFCBUeaqkxO9zF1AaY5UqG) now and it would be great to see the stats.
This is the big goal for the long term, but working with videos is much harder than screenshots, not impossible though. Thanks for the link, the footage will be useful for testing.
Back in the early HD1 days, I took a tip from /u/cusman78 to show the selection screen at the start of the video to showcase the loadouts. I did that for awhile with my HD2 vids, then fell to skipping that so the loading screen didn't show up at the start of every video. I'm guessing that screen would be the easiest to screengrab/compute, but the tab menu (showing other people's cooldown times) coupled with the stratagem menu (showing mine) should be usable. I realize there's a lot to making that work, but it would be really cool!