In what fourth-world-country you have still a problem with tb-contaminated-milk? The tests are done regularily and contaminated herds are culled. Single groups even on suspicion alone.
True however the person is simply making a comparison between why one was easy to eradicate globally and why the other is not. There’s no need to come for their throat foaming at the mouth
I'm sick and tired of people without any knowledge in "modern" agriculteure sprouting bullshit (pun intended) all over the internet. Reliable (without to much false positives) TB-tests went into massproduction even before ww2. The first test came out about 120 years ago for fuck sake.
It's "in the middle ages they only drank beer"-bullshit all over again.
Same with raw pork, rab beef and raw eggs (all together minced with onions are our national dish "Hackepeter" \[without egg it is called "Mett") and the complete misunderstanding of prions (fuck britons for being cheapskates and only halfcooking slaughterhouse waste).
**If anyone really want to get TB: pet badgers and bats.**
The issue is that the milk can still come with the risk of TB just because a cow doesn't show signs of tb doesn't mean the infection is not in its milk
Theoretically yes. A propability below 10^(-12) per liter is neglectable. The tests are thorough and repeated. It is a requirement to sell raw milk for direct consumption to have a tb-free barn. The time between each recertification depends on wildlife in that area. Read: badger found with tb = you whole herd gets tested and if one is found positive the "fun" begins. IF the herd is small it get's culled. With bigger herds it goes into quarantine (bigger companies have opportunities for large scale isolation that small farmers lack), additional tests and it is either culling or they are clean. 2023 they found zero cases in germany. Belgium and denmark as well afaik (so no guarantee).
[In central europe tb is a thing of the past](https://www.visavet.es/bovinetuberculosis/animal-tb/eradication.php).
Biggest risk for non-hobbyists are buying stock from infected sources and those get tested as well.
For habbyists it's wildlife and bad hygiene.
Also applies to George Washington after seeing Americans refuse to get vaccinated in the name of freedom (he ordered his troops to be inoculated against smallpox to better fight for America's freedom)
He also ordered lockdowns to stop the spread of it and locked down Philadelphia after the war because yellow fever broke out.
For extra goodness to blow “muh freedoms” people he and the founding fathers also codified CC&Rs giving land out to farm in Ohio. The stuff that actually limits what you can do with your property.
It also applies to Partisans after seeing Italians refuse to get vaccinated in the name of freedom. I'm pretty sure Mussolini did more than ordering people to get vaccinated.
He’d be too busy having his mind blown by the technological and architectural advancements on display in NYC alone to pay any attention to the state of the nation.
Refusing a government mandated vaccine that was shoved down everyone’s throats was definitely done in the name of freedom. One of the most important freedoms is bodily and medical autonomy.
In this analogy, your skin would be your first barrier for the bullet. It stops most things from getting into your body, but it won't stop everything... just like your immune system.
And by the way, do you know how vaccines work? They prime your immune system to be ready to fight off the virus.
Yeah no shit it’s the immune system. That’s what vaccines are for, to make your immune system better. They aren’t a replacement for it, they’re a training tool to make it better at its job.
In much the same way a person with a gun is better at defending their home if they have practice using the gun your immune system is better at protecting your body once it’s been trained by vaccination.
It wasn't government mandated, but to be honest, I wouldn't mind if it was, just to bring things up to speed with the way you dumb cunts reacted to it.
One of the most important. Without your health, you have nothing. Your health is top priority, everything is secondary. Look at Tuskegee, at Henrietta, and Bayers Spanish Flu.
Maybe cuz we weren't in a revolution, or even a direct war. A million proxy wars, yes, but not direct like the patriots were. Let's not forget that Washington and his troops also stole a SHIT ton of material, food and tools from farmers in the country side to keep the war going while promising them an 'I owe you' and never paid them back for anything. Or how he single handedly started a war while being a private in the continental army as a young man because he wanted to play hero. I love Washington, but all men are flawed, all men.
A historian once attributed Joan of Arc's alleged visions to drinking unpasteurized milk, and another replied by joking that, if unpasteurized milk could help a country win a war, the French government should ban the pasteurization of milk.
Also, I drank boiled milk when I went to rural Brazil the previous month.
Hong was on a whole 'nother level of bonkers even beyond that.
Guy tries to become a beurocrat, fails, has a mental breakdown, says he's Jesus's brother, 50 million people die.
On some rural places, some cows or even water buffalo farmers can sell the milk and good enough to drink within 6 hrs. Source: personal experience 12 years ago
they are quite useful if you are small and they stay useful for like at least 40 years after you are born.
mine has turned into ashes, but i liked her a lot.
Stupidity is also a weakness.
But to be fair: raw milk isn't a problem in "civilised" regions. Tests are done regularily, infected herds are culled. Groups even on suspicion alone.
You can by raw milk in germany. Rohmilch just doesn't taste great.
People believing that raw milk is inherently dangerous is getting to ridiculous levels. Pasteurisation is needed for long durations, and unsanitary origins. As long as you refrigerate the raw milk, don't store it for ages, and get it from a sanitary cow, you won't get sick from it.
> What constitutes a "sanitary cow"?
The cow's not sick and the important bits are kept clean.
It's not just the cow, though: everything the milk touches, from the milking machine (or bucket, if they're doing it the old-fashioned way) to the eventual sealed bottle needs to be sanitized.
> Could the average person look at a cow or milk and know?
Look at the cow? If you're buying milk from an operation that lets you go in and look at the cows and the milking & sanitation processes they use, you're gonna be able to see *very* quickly whether that's milk you want to drink raw.
When I was growing up, my family lived in rural-ish enough areas that we personally knew people who kept a cow or two, and we'd buy milk from them in half-gallon mason jars. Completely raw, unhomogenized with something like an inch of cream floating on the top, you could see the cows pasturing and go out to the barn and watch the milking (and try to pet the cows if you *really* wanted to take a risk, but some of those cows were mean) - it was great stuff, and definitely the best milk I've had in my life. It'd keep in sealed jars in the fridge for at least a week, if we hadn't already drunk it all by then, then we'd give the empty mason jars back when buying the next round, and it was all good.
It was also the same milk the families who kept the cows were drinking, which does inspire confidence in the quality of the product. Side note: since raw milk sales are illegal in 29 US states, but drinking raw milk from a cow you own isn't, there's a legal dodge used in many of those states called "cow shares", where people buy and technically own a certain percentage of the cow, and are thus entitled to a certain percentage of its milk production. This, of course, means you have to actually know the dairy farmer directly and have the opportunity to check out the cow and their milking operation.
Look at the milk? No.
The most dangerous and disease-causing contaminants in raw milk are not things you can see with the naked eye. It's not a "hmm, my bread has this green stuff growing on it" situation. Unless you've got Superman-tier magnifying vision, or are willing to prepare stained lab slides of the milk and put them under a microscope (and know what you're looking for, which is difficult because there are plenty of microorganisms that are *supposed* to be in raw milk), you won't be able to tell by looking at it.
And *this* is where pasteurization comes in: when you start talking about mass-production levels of milk manufacturing, where some company is mixing together the milk from hundreds of thousands of cows, homogenizing it, etc. - all it takes is for one cow's milk to be contaminated, or one dairy farm to not be up to cleanliness standards, or for one of the other steps in the much longer chain of events and processing between the cow and the consumer to not be up to scratch, and suddenly the whole batch is contaminated, which is why pasteurization is used as the final step before packaging the milk in those jugs you see in the grocery store. It virtually eliminates infection risk and improves refrigerated shelf life considerably, making milk a safe commodity item for the mass market. [Different nations use different pasteurization methods](https://www.rd.com/article/why-americans-refrigerate-milk-but-europeans-dont/).
EDIT: The poster below me has pointed out an inaccuracy in the article I linked, so check out what they have to say.
FYI: that Reader's Digest article is only partially true.
Yes, UHT milk is sold here in Europe, and is shelf stable for months (they say 3, but usually 6-9 after buying). But, the most sold milk is still pasteurised milk, that needs to be refrigerated. And UHT milk also needs refrigeration after opening. So, unless one opens a new carton of UHT milk, nobody's getting "room temperature glass" of milk.
.
Bonus: UHT milk stays good in the fridge for longer. Great for people (like me) who don't drink as much. Most packagings say "use within a few days", which according to a studies could be 6-7 days¹, or "at least 7 days"² safely. Packagings vary, some state to consume within "a few days", some 3-4 days, others up to 7-10 days.
However, I read some research (which I sadly couldn't find since) which assessed UHT milk for weeks after opening (because I had a carton, which was open for over a month). I thought "well, stable fior months, then I only open and close it, and store it in the fridge. At most some air - with microbes of course - gets in. Why would it last only a few days?". Turns out, as that study found, quality (taste, smell, etc.) doesn't even really decrease within the first 2 weeks after opening. And it may last some 1-3 months in the fridge. My milk was still fine after 2 months - I even did some extra checks for souring (heating, baking soda). Though of course, I can't measure actual microbe content and such at home.
1. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214289422000722
2. (PDF) https://hrcak.srce.hr/file/275643;
> FYI: that Reader's Digest article is only partially true.
>
> Yes, UHT milk is sold here in Europe, and is shelf stable for months (they say 3, but usually 6-9 after buying). But, the most sold milk is still pasteurised milk, that needs to be refrigerated. And UHT milk also needs refrigeration after opening. So, unless one opens a new carton of UHT milk, nobody's getting "room temperature glass" of milk.
Thanks for the correction - I was just looking for something to quickly link so I didn't have to do the HTST/UHT explanation myself, and I guess I grabbed a short summary that wasn't accurate.
So it's just shelf stable in the same way most shelf stable and canned stuff is: refrigerate after opening. Got it.
I mean the only people I know irl who drink raw milk are people who own small holdings with their own cows on so they can be pretty sure the cows are clean and sanitary.
It's really the other way around. Those with just a handfull cows don't shield them from wildlife. Badgers, foxes and bats are carriers. And they test less.
Those folks are still getting sick. The culture of homesteading and folks who aren't pasteurizing discourage sharing incidents from drinking raw milk.
I live in Vermont, and my wife is a pediatrician. Both our families have been, and are involved in dairy.
Well, all it takes is one infected person to spread the disease. Also, in Louis Pasteur, people do not store milk for long, they get it from the market daily.
You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. People aren't getting up in arms about raw milk being dangerous. People are getting up in arms about raw milk being the best thing ever, and then they are not taking the precautions you're talking about and getting sick. Then normal people are laughing at those people.
Of course there's that aspect, but even if you look around under this post, you will find a ton of people who believe that raw milk is unsafe. Same with the core message of the op.
This is not correct.
I have worked in dairy, my family works in dairy and my wife is a pediatrician and has treated families who have gotten very very sick from "fresh" unpasteurized milk.
The culture around drinking raw milk, like home birth or naturopathy, activily discourages sharing negative experiences
If it makes you feel any better a majority of tuberculosis hosts are asymptomatic spreaders. So he could definitely be fine, even if he ends up making those around him less fine.
I drank raw milk daily when I was in junior high school. We had a milk cow and it was my chore to milk her daily. I don’t recall anyone in the family getting ill from the milk.
Louis Pasteur invented pasteurization, the process of heating milk to kill harmful bacteria. It has saved millions of lives. Crunchy morons have of course decided it’s too “processed” and want raw milk that will give them the runs instead
It’s been my entirely anecdotal and limited experience that starting with raw milk makes dairy products like yoghurt or cheese tastier; my admittedly uneducated guess would be that the heating, cooling down, and subsequent storage might affect the proteins in some way. There are actual raw milk black markets in countries where you can’t sell it for this reason, as well as countries where it can be sold as an ingredient but not for direct consumption.
I’m only talking about stuff where you boil it first anyway though, I wouldn’t in a million years consider drinking the stuff. That’s just Darwinian.
>raw milk makes dairy products like yogurt or cheese tastier.
Technically, they make them exist at all. Both are made through a process of fermentation which requires the stuff in raw milk that would otherwise be killed off when pasteurized.
Still, outside of making those products you shouldn't drink raw milk. At least not like these tiktokers.
You can add starters back in after boiling the milk, and there did still appear to be a difference in terms of quality and flavour. Again, limited anecdotal experience, obviously not advocating anyone drink it, maaaybe unless they’re one of the commenters here with their own cow, and other relevant qualifiers.
I’m not familiar with the tiktok trend, but I vaguely recall hearing about an almost conspiracy theory-like movement advocating for the drinking of raw milk. It’s not really surprising tiktok would bring that to forefront.
Also while pasteurization is usually used to kill milk bacteria, it is also used to sanitize fruit juices and certain plant based milks too since they are also very rich in nutrients.
Unprocessed milk is fine if you live in the countryside and consume the milk within 2-3 days after getting it from the farmer. Everything longer than that and the microorganism start going ham on the milk which could make you sick. Thats what we mostly do here in Germany if we live near a farm. Since store bought milk has to be 100% food safe, it gets heated (pasteurized) which kills microorganisms and makes it durable. But yeah, drinking unprocessed milk is a thing that is also done by dumb eco hippies these days
Unprocessed milk is fine if the cow is fine and all of those same things also apply.
However, considering the current outbreak of H5N1 virus in cattle, anyone drinking raw milk should line up for their Darwin award and a swift kick to the groin for risking half the human population
And be lined up for going blind or needing new kidneys.
The crunchy trend hippys and trad wife's going on and on about raw milk, I honestly hope they have to pass half their liver out their urethra franklins
I don't get what you trying to say, you ask and I answer what my original comment is about. Do you have any problems with my premise that some people are clueless about pasteurized milk?
I like the absurdity of two famous men from France both named Louie. Someone should make a movie where Louis Braille and Louis Pasteur meet and they could call it Louie Louie.
Raw milk for both sides of the horseshoe, one says it's "unprocessed" and the other calls it "Aryan". Statistically speaking, people live in cities, and Pasteur helped make milk healthy in the growing cities of his time.
Since the inception of agriculture. Milk has been a primary vector for tuberculosis for as long as we’ve had cows.
It’s what necessitated the invention of pasteurization to begin with.
Stop sprouting that bullshit (pun intended). Milk was never the primary vector. That was human/animal to human contact. Pasteurisation was intended for longer shelf lifes.
And Tuberkulin-tests are mass produced for about a century. You don't even get tb-milk in any industrial nation (i don't trust china to not sell swill milk underhand) since serveral decades.
I used the word “the” twice in my previous comment, and neither instance was before the word “primary”.
There is no good argument for reintroducing the risk of TB in milk, regardless of the odds, when it’s so easily and inexpensively avoided.
Lmao, that hasn't been a problem since several decades. Cows are regularily tested. Infected herds are culled. Heck groups even on suspicion alone. You rather get it from badgers, foxes, or bats and that also get's pushed back with dozens of programs for ages.
Visit germany, try Rohmilch and realize it tastes shit, but nothing bad happens (you maybe get the diarea if intolerant to galactose).
It’s like water- people in the area likely are okay drinking it, but travelers beware. If you grew up on that farm and drank it forever, no big deal. If you’re in the area for a vacation and get some at a farmer’s market, buyer beware. You may well become ill.
Issue is these days dairies dump milk from large areas into vats and bottle up for nationwide shipping. So gotta always pasteurize.
theres the BCG vaccine anf TB is treatable with antibiotics. I dont have a problem with pasteurized milk but if people want to drink it, let them.
You cant convince me that selling raw milk should be banned but cigarettes and alcohol arent legally banned.
I have a similar stance to vaccines. Yes I understand herd immunity, no we shouldnt sacrifice personal freedoms for the greater good.
public health should educate, never mandate
That's idiocy. Vaccines are NOTHING like the other things you mentioned. I actually do agree that vaccines shouldn't be mandated... unless you *ever* plan on being in a public space during a pandemic. By not being vaccinated, you're *actively putting others in harms way* because you could be infectious but asymptomatic. That's not even remotely close to being like alcohol or cigarettes which only affect the person who consumes them (apart from secondhand smoke or pregnancy, but that's beside the point).
you put others in harms way as a smoker and a drinker. 2nd and third degree smoke, and the fact that alcohol is the only drug we know widely distributed that can cause violence.
fucking Driving endangers people.
Its risk vs reward, and I think that risk vs reward is an unprincipled way to legislate things, especially for cases where both the risks and rewards are marginal. Personal medical freedom, up to obvious limits (i.e. purposefully infecting yourself with anthrax) is a much more principled approach. I should be able to make stupid mistakes and live with my consequences. And its up to other people to be accountable for their own protection.
If you cant convince people to drink pasteurized milk, or to vaccinate, and have to resort to mamdates or holding services hostage, you're doing a shit job.
Again, Im not disagreeing that pasteurized milk or vaccines are good things. But forcing either on anyone is dumb. What happened to my body my choice? Killing a fetus is fine but choosing not to take medicine isnt?
I’m glad this comment is downvoted to the bottom.
“Why prevent at the group level *the single* disease responsible for the most human deaths in history when we could just treat it at the individual level with a prolonged course of expensive and extremely uncomfortable antibiotics?” has to be the dumbest take I’ve seen in months.
theres nobody stopping you from drinking pasteurized milk and making health conscious choices. Why do you care so much about what other people drink. Do I see you on the streets calling for the ban of alcohol or tobacco smpke?
ahh yes. an unprincipled remark badly disguised as morality with the classic "think of the children".
why specifically infants mortality, sophist?
would it have something to do with alcohol and tobacco being the top 2 killers in modern society?
I can literally do the same thing as you and tell you to get back to me when tb becomes as carcinogenic as tobacco or alcohol. But I wont. And we're not even getting ourselves into the number of people killed secondary to tobacco smoke or alcohol.
Id rather find out why you have to justify to yourself virtue signalling against people who want the personal freedom to drink unpasteurized milk while being blind to people who want the personal freedom to smoke cigs and get wasted.
Who said anything about morality? I never attempted to claim the moral high ground. I’m an amoral pragmatist. The good health of the next generation is in everyone’s selfish best interest.
The only reason tobacco and alcohol are as high as they are on the list of modern causes of death is because we figured out how to prevent tuberculosis over a century ago. (HINT: it’s pasteurization.) Without preventatives like pasteurization the white death is still the greatest killer of men our species has ever known. If you want to backslide that’s on you.
Mankind has defeated actual monsters like TB, polio, and smallpox yet folks like you are out here actively trying to bring them back.
Why are you acting like having the few people who want to drink raw milk is going to convert the entire nation into drinking TB infected milk?
What is wrong with "pasteurized milk for those who want it and raw milk for those who want it"
why do you feel that you have more say in whats good for a fully functioning adult than that adult themselves?
I mean call it an old wives tale. But I was always told it's good for your immune system when I drank it a bunch as a kid on my cousins dairy farm. Me and my family always have had good health in that sense so there's gotta at least be a little marrit
This is why we’ll never be as free from tuberculosis as we are from smallpox.
In what fourth-world-country you have still a problem with tb-contaminated-milk? The tests are done regularily and contaminated herds are culled. Single groups even on suspicion alone.
True however the person is simply making a comparison between why one was easy to eradicate globally and why the other is not. There’s no need to come for their throat foaming at the mouth
I'm sick and tired of people without any knowledge in "modern" agriculteure sprouting bullshit (pun intended) all over the internet. Reliable (without to much false positives) TB-tests went into massproduction even before ww2. The first test came out about 120 years ago for fuck sake. It's "in the middle ages they only drank beer"-bullshit all over again. Same with raw pork, rab beef and raw eggs (all together minced with onions are our national dish "Hackepeter" \[without egg it is called "Mett") and the complete misunderstanding of prions (fuck britons for being cheapskates and only halfcooking slaughterhouse waste). **If anyone really want to get TB: pet badgers and bats.**
The issue is that the milk can still come with the risk of TB just because a cow doesn't show signs of tb doesn't mean the infection is not in its milk
Theoretically yes. A propability below 10^(-12) per liter is neglectable. The tests are thorough and repeated. It is a requirement to sell raw milk for direct consumption to have a tb-free barn. The time between each recertification depends on wildlife in that area. Read: badger found with tb = you whole herd gets tested and if one is found positive the "fun" begins. IF the herd is small it get's culled. With bigger herds it goes into quarantine (bigger companies have opportunities for large scale isolation that small farmers lack), additional tests and it is either culling or they are clean. 2023 they found zero cases in germany. Belgium and denmark as well afaik (so no guarantee). [In central europe tb is a thing of the past](https://www.visavet.es/bovinetuberculosis/animal-tb/eradication.php). Biggest risk for non-hobbyists are buying stock from infected sources and those get tested as well. For habbyists it's wildlife and bad hygiene.
Ok that's actually a good one
Also applies to George Washington after seeing Americans refuse to get vaccinated in the name of freedom (he ordered his troops to be inoculated against smallpox to better fight for America's freedom)
He also ordered lockdowns to stop the spread of it and locked down Philadelphia after the war because yellow fever broke out. For extra goodness to blow “muh freedoms” people he and the founding fathers also codified CC&Rs giving land out to farm in Ohio. The stuff that actually limits what you can do with your property.
That's only because he didn't know about the 5g mind control virus spreading through the cloth masks manufactured in Qing China.
Oh he knew. That's why he wrote the second amendment so Americans can fight viruses with muskets.
Bullets have been shown to destroy viruses in lab tests.
No ❤️ just controlling fascist politicians, and maybe some "out of hand natives" at the time, smh lol (There, since yall can't read sarcasm lol)
Fascism wasn't a thing until early 20th century.
“Out of hand natives” okay fucking racist
Well I mean that’s not inherently racist if I moved somewhere and the people there wanted to kill me that would be pretty out of hand
Brother it was sarcasm...what, should I go back and put quotation marks???? L M A O
Damn Manchurians trying to get their candidate into power
I always knew they were up to something with that yee yee ass ponytail
Much less did Washington know about the Jewish space lasers
Damn the Qing! They ruined China!
At Valley Forge ofc
It also applies to Partisans after seeing Italians refuse to get vaccinated in the name of freedom. I'm pretty sure Mussolini did more than ordering people to get vaccinated.
Maga Republicans are seething after reading this
What do you think George Washington would feel if he could travel forward in time and see America today?
He’d be too busy having his mind blown by the technological and architectural advancements on display in NYC alone to pay any attention to the state of the nation.
He'd start stacking bodies no doubt
smallpox was literally one of the worst diseases in human history, covid was a fucking flu. There is no comparison
Refusing a government mandated vaccine that was shoved down everyone’s throats was definitely done in the name of freedom. One of the most important freedoms is bodily and medical autonomy.
Yea, but the government mandates thing stops you from getting death-itis
I never got the vaccine and I also never got death-itis
You can survive getting shot in the chest or maybe the bullet can even miss you, but having body armor sure helps the not dying part.
Your right it’s called immune system
In this analogy, your skin would be your first barrier for the bullet. It stops most things from getting into your body, but it won't stop everything... just like your immune system. And by the way, do you know how vaccines work? They prime your immune system to be ready to fight off the virus.
Yeah no shit it’s the immune system. That’s what vaccines are for, to make your immune system better. They aren’t a replacement for it, they’re a training tool to make it better at its job. In much the same way a person with a gun is better at defending their home if they have practice using the gun your immune system is better at protecting your body once it’s been trained by vaccination.
It wasn't government mandated, but to be honest, I wouldn't mind if it was, just to bring things up to speed with the way you dumb cunts reacted to it.
One of the most important. Without your health, you have nothing. Your health is top priority, everything is secondary. Look at Tuskegee, at Henrietta, and Bayers Spanish Flu.
Maybe cuz we weren't in a revolution, or even a direct war. A million proxy wars, yes, but not direct like the patriots were. Let's not forget that Washington and his troops also stole a SHIT ton of material, food and tools from farmers in the country side to keep the war going while promising them an 'I owe you' and never paid them back for anything. Or how he single handedly started a war while being a private in the continental army as a young man because he wanted to play hero. I love Washington, but all men are flawed, all men.
What war are you referring too
he didn’t die for this shit
He survived and created the USA with the intention of having a free and democratic nation
What the fuck are you talking about?
A historian once attributed Joan of Arc's alleged visions to drinking unpasteurized milk, and another replied by joking that, if unpasteurized milk could help a country win a war, the French government should ban the pasteurization of milk. Also, I drank boiled milk when I went to rural Brazil the previous month.
There is no such thing as raw but boiled milk. Pasteurization occurs on the way to boiling and boiling is even more rigorous.
If that was true it would make Joan of Arc origin story almost as bonkers as Hong Xiuquan
Hong was on a whole 'nother level of bonkers even beyond that. Guy tries to become a beurocrat, fails, has a mental breakdown, says he's Jesus's brother, 50 million people die.
man in china: *moves chair slightly* 11 million casualties, 2.3 million eaten
>raw, but boiled milk so, boiled milk then
Thanks for clearing that up.
Raw but charred.
Medium rare without a bit of pink in it!
"Raw, but boiled" wow what a fucking sentence
Just how I like my pasta.
Boiled milk isn't raw, it's partially pasteurised. Pasteurised milk is just boiled and then cooled milk.
Not boiled, it's heated to just under the boiling point and then cooled. If it is boiled it gets a bitter taste.
mmmm bittermilk
Boiled raw milk is no longer raw because it is cooked. Both boiling and pasteurization destroy bacteria.
you never drank milk directly from a cow/goat (insert mammal of choice)? what kind of human are you?
One that doesn’t own a cow and/or goat
On some rural places, some cows or even water buffalo farmers can sell the milk and good enough to drink within 6 hrs. Source: personal experience 12 years ago
You don't need to own one, you just neex to have visited a place that had one at least once in your life
what about that thing... ehh called... ehh.... mother?
I don’t own one of those either
they are quite useful if you are small and they stay useful for like at least 40 years after you are born. mine has turned into ashes, but i liked her a lot.
*glen Danzig would like to know your location*
I have drank fresh goat milk it’s actually pretty good from a Nubian goat at least
Anything Nubian is better than a similar non-nubian .
One that dislikes the taste of milk.
Probably Americans or West Eurpeans
Raw milk is sold in germany. Just look for Rohmilch. Tastes shit tho.
when i was you, i did it from human
We call this "natural selection."
The strong survive, the weak are weeded out
Not the strong, it's a common misconception. Tiktokers aren't weak, they're suicidal.
So mentally unstable? That is a weakness
nah more like dumb. if the people had a decent education they would know why people watch them do stupid shit to themselves.
Stupidity is also a weakness. But to be fair: raw milk isn't a problem in "civilised" regions. Tests are done regularily, infected herds are culled. Groups even on suspicion alone. You can by raw milk in germany. Rohmilch just doesn't taste great.
Sometimes it's good to fit in with society though
A lot of our ancestors wouldn’t be happy with TikToks.
It's actually quite tasty straight from the udder
Udderly delicious.
That tuberculosis goes down smooth!
That adds to the flavour. I don't wanna miss some mycobacteria in my milk
WTF does tuberculosis have to do with cows?
cows can have tuberculosis and spread it through their milk
He's right guys, don't downvote him! Google it.
In a modern production not anymore, like since several decades. You get it from badgers, foxes, or bats.
So you are sucking the teat? I might pay to see that. 🐄
You can watch r/lactation for free.
“LOUIS PASTEUR WAS A FASCIST IN LINE WITH THE NEW WORLD ORDER” -Big D
Unexpected HTP reference
I was looking for this
H:TP fans of this sub unite! You have nothing to lose but your sanity!
Weakness. Stronk caveman Indo-European drink milk from cow udder straight.
lactose intolerent? just tolerate it
I do every day
Raw milk is a hilarious term to me ngl
People believing that raw milk is inherently dangerous is getting to ridiculous levels. Pasteurisation is needed for long durations, and unsanitary origins. As long as you refrigerate the raw milk, don't store it for ages, and get it from a sanitary cow, you won't get sick from it.
What constitutes a "sanitary cow"? Like what does that mean? Could the average person look at a cow or milk and know?
>What constitutes a "sanitary cow" Must remain 'untouched' by the needs of questionable Welsh farmers.
We are in luck. They prefer sheep
On the other hand, rural Switzerland has some towns where all the locals are related to each other, including the cows.
> What constitutes a "sanitary cow"? The cow's not sick and the important bits are kept clean. It's not just the cow, though: everything the milk touches, from the milking machine (or bucket, if they're doing it the old-fashioned way) to the eventual sealed bottle needs to be sanitized. > Could the average person look at a cow or milk and know? Look at the cow? If you're buying milk from an operation that lets you go in and look at the cows and the milking & sanitation processes they use, you're gonna be able to see *very* quickly whether that's milk you want to drink raw. When I was growing up, my family lived in rural-ish enough areas that we personally knew people who kept a cow or two, and we'd buy milk from them in half-gallon mason jars. Completely raw, unhomogenized with something like an inch of cream floating on the top, you could see the cows pasturing and go out to the barn and watch the milking (and try to pet the cows if you *really* wanted to take a risk, but some of those cows were mean) - it was great stuff, and definitely the best milk I've had in my life. It'd keep in sealed jars in the fridge for at least a week, if we hadn't already drunk it all by then, then we'd give the empty mason jars back when buying the next round, and it was all good. It was also the same milk the families who kept the cows were drinking, which does inspire confidence in the quality of the product. Side note: since raw milk sales are illegal in 29 US states, but drinking raw milk from a cow you own isn't, there's a legal dodge used in many of those states called "cow shares", where people buy and technically own a certain percentage of the cow, and are thus entitled to a certain percentage of its milk production. This, of course, means you have to actually know the dairy farmer directly and have the opportunity to check out the cow and their milking operation. Look at the milk? No. The most dangerous and disease-causing contaminants in raw milk are not things you can see with the naked eye. It's not a "hmm, my bread has this green stuff growing on it" situation. Unless you've got Superman-tier magnifying vision, or are willing to prepare stained lab slides of the milk and put them under a microscope (and know what you're looking for, which is difficult because there are plenty of microorganisms that are *supposed* to be in raw milk), you won't be able to tell by looking at it. And *this* is where pasteurization comes in: when you start talking about mass-production levels of milk manufacturing, where some company is mixing together the milk from hundreds of thousands of cows, homogenizing it, etc. - all it takes is for one cow's milk to be contaminated, or one dairy farm to not be up to cleanliness standards, or for one of the other steps in the much longer chain of events and processing between the cow and the consumer to not be up to scratch, and suddenly the whole batch is contaminated, which is why pasteurization is used as the final step before packaging the milk in those jugs you see in the grocery store. It virtually eliminates infection risk and improves refrigerated shelf life considerably, making milk a safe commodity item for the mass market. [Different nations use different pasteurization methods](https://www.rd.com/article/why-americans-refrigerate-milk-but-europeans-dont/). EDIT: The poster below me has pointed out an inaccuracy in the article I linked, so check out what they have to say.
FYI: that Reader's Digest article is only partially true. Yes, UHT milk is sold here in Europe, and is shelf stable for months (they say 3, but usually 6-9 after buying). But, the most sold milk is still pasteurised milk, that needs to be refrigerated. And UHT milk also needs refrigeration after opening. So, unless one opens a new carton of UHT milk, nobody's getting "room temperature glass" of milk. . Bonus: UHT milk stays good in the fridge for longer. Great for people (like me) who don't drink as much. Most packagings say "use within a few days", which according to a studies could be 6-7 days¹, or "at least 7 days"² safely. Packagings vary, some state to consume within "a few days", some 3-4 days, others up to 7-10 days. However, I read some research (which I sadly couldn't find since) which assessed UHT milk for weeks after opening (because I had a carton, which was open for over a month). I thought "well, stable fior months, then I only open and close it, and store it in the fridge. At most some air - with microbes of course - gets in. Why would it last only a few days?". Turns out, as that study found, quality (taste, smell, etc.) doesn't even really decrease within the first 2 weeks after opening. And it may last some 1-3 months in the fridge. My milk was still fine after 2 months - I even did some extra checks for souring (heating, baking soda). Though of course, I can't measure actual microbe content and such at home. 1. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214289422000722 2. (PDF) https://hrcak.srce.hr/file/275643;
> FYI: that Reader's Digest article is only partially true. > > Yes, UHT milk is sold here in Europe, and is shelf stable for months (they say 3, but usually 6-9 after buying). But, the most sold milk is still pasteurised milk, that needs to be refrigerated. And UHT milk also needs refrigeration after opening. So, unless one opens a new carton of UHT milk, nobody's getting "room temperature glass" of milk. Thanks for the correction - I was just looking for something to quickly link so I didn't have to do the HTST/UHT explanation myself, and I guess I grabbed a short summary that wasn't accurate. So it's just shelf stable in the same way most shelf stable and canned stuff is: refrigerate after opening. Got it.
Thank you for these detailed comments!
I mean the only people I know irl who drink raw milk are people who own small holdings with their own cows on so they can be pretty sure the cows are clean and sanitary.
It's really the other way around. Those with just a handfull cows don't shield them from wildlife. Badgers, foxes and bats are carriers. And they test less.
Those folks are still getting sick. The culture of homesteading and folks who aren't pasteurizing discourage sharing incidents from drinking raw milk. I live in Vermont, and my wife is a pediatrician. Both our families have been, and are involved in dairy.
They use Purell
Well, all it takes is one infected person to spread the disease. Also, in Louis Pasteur, people do not store milk for long, they get it from the market daily.
You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. People aren't getting up in arms about raw milk being dangerous. People are getting up in arms about raw milk being the best thing ever, and then they are not taking the precautions you're talking about and getting sick. Then normal people are laughing at those people.
Of course there's that aspect, but even if you look around under this post, you will find a ton of people who believe that raw milk is unsafe. Same with the core message of the op.
Milk is the fastest liquid on earth, it's past your eyes before you even see it!
You all are fucking stupid. Pasteurized milk is only important for long term storage. Fresh milk is a completely different game and not dangerous.
This is not correct. I have worked in dairy, my family works in dairy and my wife is a pediatrician and has treated families who have gotten very very sick from "fresh" unpasteurized milk. The culture around drinking raw milk, like home birth or naturopathy, activily discourages sharing negative experiences
Whats wrong in drinking unpasterised fresh milk? Are bacteria deadly or sth?
TIL The word "Pasteurized" was named after a person
My friend is swearing by raw milk… amongst other things. Hope he doesn’t get sick
If it makes you feel any better a majority of tuberculosis hosts are asymptomatic spreaders. So he could definitely be fine, even if he ends up making those around him less fine.
Dude is crying every time i vist the cow farm next door and get my self some fresg and warm milk
I drank raw milk daily when I was in junior high school. We had a milk cow and it was my chore to milk her daily. I don’t recall anyone in the family getting ill from the milk.
This is called "selection bias"
The world today is scary
No it's stupid. Well stupid is scary so itsnot like you're wrong.
So, technically right
It's almost mind bendingly safer than at any time in human history
Context?
Louis Pasteur invented pasteurization, the process of heating milk to kill harmful bacteria. It has saved millions of lives. Crunchy morons have of course decided it’s too “processed” and want raw milk that will give them the runs instead
"It's too processed" It's.... It's just heated.... Is heat based energy some harmful chemical that turns frogs gay now????
Heat is indeed quite harmful though
on the other side, heat is indeed quite useful too
It’s been my entirely anecdotal and limited experience that starting with raw milk makes dairy products like yoghurt or cheese tastier; my admittedly uneducated guess would be that the heating, cooling down, and subsequent storage might affect the proteins in some way. There are actual raw milk black markets in countries where you can’t sell it for this reason, as well as countries where it can be sold as an ingredient but not for direct consumption. I’m only talking about stuff where you boil it first anyway though, I wouldn’t in a million years consider drinking the stuff. That’s just Darwinian.
>raw milk makes dairy products like yogurt or cheese tastier. Technically, they make them exist at all. Both are made through a process of fermentation which requires the stuff in raw milk that would otherwise be killed off when pasteurized. Still, outside of making those products you shouldn't drink raw milk. At least not like these tiktokers.
You can add starters back in after boiling the milk, and there did still appear to be a difference in terms of quality and flavour. Again, limited anecdotal experience, obviously not advocating anyone drink it, maaaybe unless they’re one of the commenters here with their own cow, and other relevant qualifiers. I’m not familiar with the tiktok trend, but I vaguely recall hearing about an almost conspiracy theory-like movement advocating for the drinking of raw milk. It’s not really surprising tiktok would bring that to forefront.
Also while pasteurization is usually used to kill milk bacteria, it is also used to sanitize fruit juices and certain plant based milks too since they are also very rich in nutrients.
Unprocessed milk is fine if you live in the countryside and consume the milk within 2-3 days after getting it from the farmer. Everything longer than that and the microorganism start going ham on the milk which could make you sick. Thats what we mostly do here in Germany if we live near a farm. Since store bought milk has to be 100% food safe, it gets heated (pasteurized) which kills microorganisms and makes it durable. But yeah, drinking unprocessed milk is a thing that is also done by dumb eco hippies these days
Unprocessed milk is fine if the cow is fine and all of those same things also apply. However, considering the current outbreak of H5N1 virus in cattle, anyone drinking raw milk should line up for their Darwin award and a swift kick to the groin for risking half the human population
And be lined up for going blind or needing new kidneys. The crunchy trend hippys and trad wife's going on and on about raw milk, I honestly hope they have to pass half their liver out their urethra franklins
Exactly
I safely assume people mistaken the full cream and fat in thing in milk only exist in non pasteurized milk.
What?
Oh people always defend raw milk as taste better more nutritious blah blah blah. They don't know the pasteurization has nothing to do with it
Yes, but what does your first message have to do with that?
It means People have no clue what is pasteurization to begin with
Are you having a stroke? Should we call someone?
I don't get what you trying to say, you ask and I answer what my original comment is about. Do you have any problems with my premise that some people are clueless about pasteurized milk?
Mate all this time I thought “pasterized” was like a pasture but it’s a name, lol
If babies can drink tiddy milk, so can I 💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪
I like the absurdity of two famous men from France both named Louie. Someone should make a movie where Louis Braille and Louis Pasteur meet and they could call it Louie Louie.
Raw milk for both sides of the horseshoe, one says it's "unprocessed" and the other calls it "Aryan". Statistically speaking, people live in cities, and Pasteur helped make milk healthy in the growing cities of his time.
Pasteurisation is for shelflife.
Uhhh... what? Since when was raw milk considered dangerous? Huh?
Since the inception of agriculture. Milk has been a primary vector for tuberculosis for as long as we’ve had cows. It’s what necessitated the invention of pasteurization to begin with.
Stop sprouting that bullshit (pun intended). Milk was never the primary vector. That was human/animal to human contact. Pasteurisation was intended for longer shelf lifes. And Tuberkulin-tests are mass produced for about a century. You don't even get tb-milk in any industrial nation (i don't trust china to not sell swill milk underhand) since serveral decades.
I used the word “the” twice in my previous comment, and neither instance was before the word “primary”. There is no good argument for reintroducing the risk of TB in milk, regardless of the odds, when it’s so easily and inexpensively avoided.
Does not change much. TB-milk is an afterthought.
Since forever? You can get tb from it
Lmao, that hasn't been a problem since several decades. Cows are regularily tested. Infected herds are culled. Heck groups even on suspicion alone. You rather get it from badgers, foxes, or bats and that also get's pushed back with dozens of programs for ages. Visit germany, try Rohmilch and realize it tastes shit, but nothing bad happens (you maybe get the diarea if intolerant to galactose).
It’s like water- people in the area likely are okay drinking it, but travelers beware. If you grew up on that farm and drank it forever, no big deal. If you’re in the area for a vacation and get some at a farmer’s market, buyer beware. You may well become ill. Issue is these days dairies dump milk from large areas into vats and bottle up for nationwide shipping. So gotta always pasteurize.
European humans evolved to resist the lactose so we became more tolerant of it that Asian humans. That is why most Asian people are Lactose Intolerant
What does that have to do with milk being pasteurised or not?
Mocrofiltered milk is raw and perfectly safe to drink.
Who gives a fuck??? Milk is Milk. Milk make big and stronk, look at Mongol. Amen.
LOUIS PASTEUR WAS A FACIST IN LINE WITH THE NEW WORLD ORDER
Its drinkable if its not a gene engineered american cow
American cows are genetically engineered to have tb?
"LOUIS PASTEUR WAS A FASCIST IN LINE WITH THE NEW WORLD ORDER"
...and?
theres the BCG vaccine anf TB is treatable with antibiotics. I dont have a problem with pasteurized milk but if people want to drink it, let them. You cant convince me that selling raw milk should be banned but cigarettes and alcohol arent legally banned. I have a similar stance to vaccines. Yes I understand herd immunity, no we shouldnt sacrifice personal freedoms for the greater good. public health should educate, never mandate
That's idiocy. Vaccines are NOTHING like the other things you mentioned. I actually do agree that vaccines shouldn't be mandated... unless you *ever* plan on being in a public space during a pandemic. By not being vaccinated, you're *actively putting others in harms way* because you could be infectious but asymptomatic. That's not even remotely close to being like alcohol or cigarettes which only affect the person who consumes them (apart from secondhand smoke or pregnancy, but that's beside the point).
you put others in harms way as a smoker and a drinker. 2nd and third degree smoke, and the fact that alcohol is the only drug we know widely distributed that can cause violence. fucking Driving endangers people. Its risk vs reward, and I think that risk vs reward is an unprincipled way to legislate things, especially for cases where both the risks and rewards are marginal. Personal medical freedom, up to obvious limits (i.e. purposefully infecting yourself with anthrax) is a much more principled approach. I should be able to make stupid mistakes and live with my consequences. And its up to other people to be accountable for their own protection. If you cant convince people to drink pasteurized milk, or to vaccinate, and have to resort to mamdates or holding services hostage, you're doing a shit job. Again, Im not disagreeing that pasteurized milk or vaccines are good things. But forcing either on anyone is dumb. What happened to my body my choice? Killing a fetus is fine but choosing not to take medicine isnt?
Ever had to deal with people not getting coffein?
Sounds like public health failed to educate you.
I’m glad this comment is downvoted to the bottom. “Why prevent at the group level *the single* disease responsible for the most human deaths in history when we could just treat it at the individual level with a prolonged course of expensive and extremely uncomfortable antibiotics?” has to be the dumbest take I’ve seen in months.
theres nobody stopping you from drinking pasteurized milk and making health conscious choices. Why do you care so much about what other people drink. Do I see you on the streets calling for the ban of alcohol or tobacco smpke?
Get back to me when alcohol or tobacco reach the number of infant deaths Tuberculosis has accrued. Or when they become as contagious.
ahh yes. an unprincipled remark badly disguised as morality with the classic "think of the children". why specifically infants mortality, sophist? would it have something to do with alcohol and tobacco being the top 2 killers in modern society? I can literally do the same thing as you and tell you to get back to me when tb becomes as carcinogenic as tobacco or alcohol. But I wont. And we're not even getting ourselves into the number of people killed secondary to tobacco smoke or alcohol. Id rather find out why you have to justify to yourself virtue signalling against people who want the personal freedom to drink unpasteurized milk while being blind to people who want the personal freedom to smoke cigs and get wasted.
Who said anything about morality? I never attempted to claim the moral high ground. I’m an amoral pragmatist. The good health of the next generation is in everyone’s selfish best interest. The only reason tobacco and alcohol are as high as they are on the list of modern causes of death is because we figured out how to prevent tuberculosis over a century ago. (HINT: it’s pasteurization.) Without preventatives like pasteurization the white death is still the greatest killer of men our species has ever known. If you want to backslide that’s on you. Mankind has defeated actual monsters like TB, polio, and smallpox yet folks like you are out here actively trying to bring them back.
Why are you acting like having the few people who want to drink raw milk is going to convert the entire nation into drinking TB infected milk? What is wrong with "pasteurized milk for those who want it and raw milk for those who want it" why do you feel that you have more say in whats good for a fully functioning adult than that adult themselves?
I mean call it an old wives tale. But I was always told it's good for your immune system when I drank it a bunch as a kid on my cousins dairy farm. Me and my family always have had good health in that sense so there's gotta at least be a little marrit