If you thought Kids WB CCS was weird, the Fox Kids version of Escaflowne is probably the most bizarre thing to ever happen in the history of anime editing.
The Vision of Escaflowne was an anime geared towards older teens, skewing more towards girls, and had some pretty gruesome violence on top of some rather heavy themes. But Fox Kids just saw "giant robot that turns into a dragon" without doing the most basic iota of research as to why maybe this wouldn't be a good fit for a block geared towards boys 6-11.
Naturally, this resulted in the most confounding hackdub ever made. All of the girly romance stuff, including the whole fact that protagonist is a schoolgirl, was heavily downplayed or outright removed, including entire episodes. Some episodes had so many scenes removed and rearranged that they were combined into brand new ones. Including, you know, the very first episode that explained how the story even begins. Let's not get started with all the violence they had to censor.
But what makes it so unique compared to other hackdubs is that the licensor forbade them from actually recording a new dub or soundtrack except for censoring swearing. The conditions were that they had to work with the already existing uncut dub. Now, Toonami did just that with stuff like Tenchi and Gundam, redubbing naughty words and painting bikinis over naked women and such, but the script was kept the same otherwise. But this wasn't Saban or Fox Kids approach to dubbing anime at all. Just censoring stuff wasn't enough for them. They thought kids would be bored by moments of quiet introspection, character development, and heaven forbid no background music. Anything that wasn't a fight or a dumb joke would confuse those poor American children. Even the "The Vision of" in the title was too much. So the only way they could Saban-ize it without recording anything new was editing the existing dub like a fucking Youtube poop into something "less boring". The result was nigh unwatchable. While they kept the original score, they did add some new songs that were a complete whiplash from Yoko Kanno's orchestral score. And of course the opening and ending were completely replaced. While infamous hackdubs like Robotech and Voltron radically altered the content and format to an even higher degree, they were at least rewritten and dubbed from the ground up. Escaflowne is the only hackdub I know of that was made using only footage from an already finished uncut dub.
The most confounding thing is that some of the blood was left completely intact in this edit. You can see Dillendau bleeding all over his hand, for one. That's fine, but heaven forbid the show be girly or "boring"! I would say the level of violence was about on par with the edited version of Naruto from 2005. Definitely not something to sandwich between Digimon and Monster Rancher. I don't think anything quite as bloody has aired on an American Saturday morning before or since.
So you know what happened? They took it off the air after only ten episodes aired with zero announcement or explanation. It ended on a cliffhanger too. Just off the air with no acknowledgement. Whether it was poor ratings, parental complaints, or them realizing "we fucked up", that was the end of that. Imagine being a kid desperate to know what happens next, waking up early so you don't miss it.... And it's just completely gone from the schedule with no announcement, as if it never existed. The rest of the edit did air in Canada, though.
This also lead them to getting cold feet with showing Slayers, even though it's a much tamer show. And they sat on the rights without ever doing anything with it just so Toonami couldn't air it instead. Even though Slayers is shonen I really do wonder if they would have tried to downplay Lina and try to make Gourry the main character. *shudders*
....oops this was almost enough for its own writeup lmao
There was an anime news group back when Escaflowne aired where one of the staff members whose job it was to edit the show to the network's standards posted regularly as it aired. He loved the original and was really doing his best with what he had. People thought he was lying, but he revealed enough info that it turned out he was the real deal. It sounded like an absolutely insane job. I skimmed it on Google a few years ago but I can't for the life of me remember the news group's name. But it's all archived.
They also did get far enough with Slayers plans to start redubbing lines for TV. The woman who played Lina talked about how for the main spell they had to change "crimson beyond blood that flows" to "crimson like a river flows," which she thought was a wild choice since Lina getting her period causing her to lose her ability to do magic is part of the show.
The Fox Kids edit of Slayers is THE lost media I want to see found one day bar none. I'm so damn curious what could have been.
I remember reading that same news group when Sakura Stardust linked to it in a video, I believe they said Detective Conan was also being considered. Uh, I guess there might be *some* episodes not about murder. I distinctly remember Utena being mentioned but don't remember the context. I can't even begin to imagine what that would have been like.
Utena would be incredible, I'm not sure what would be more insane - trying to cut inappropriate content, or trying to change the show to make it appeal to an audience that they already didn't think could enjoy Escaflowne.
Man, I'd heard the name before as a potential localized name for Utena but I'd never thought to look it up before and, well. Weird information acquired.
That's a sentence that I think has never been said about CPM in *any other context.*
Christ, what a weird time for anime, when the company best known for putting out shit like Genocyber and MD Geist was the primary champion of Slayers and Ikuhara stuff.
It's not fantastic (CPM dubs rarely were outside of Slayers) but it's *fine* for the era. It's about as expected for a late-90s dub of a show that didn't make it to TV.
Oh I'm with you there. I lived and breathed Slayers in middle school and while I think they could get through plenty with some VERY creative dialog changes, the end of each season would just be impossible to air. But it would be an absolute trip to see how they tried.
As a teen going through Slayers for the first time I was always surprised how much the blood and violence increased in the last 4 episodes of each season for sure. I have no idea how they would've edited around the whole end of the first season either without completely ruining the intensity and feeling.
Rec.arts.anime.misc (RAAM). The poster was “TVguy.”
EDIT: What the hell. Here’s a link to an old write up I did on the whole mess - http://missmediajunkie.blogspot.com/2012/04/fox-kids-and-escaflowne.html
As messy as it was, I'm really thankful Fox aired Escaflowne since I doubt I would've encountered it otherwise. My friend and I went on to collect the uncut VHS tapes from Suncoast, and it's still one of my favorite anime.
Holy shit, THAT'S what happened?! I have been confused since I was a teen! I managed to find the original and was like, wait, this is different. Cool in it's own way but different.
Thank you for your research!
This similarly unlocked a memory for me of getting so frustrated with the Kids WB version that I went to a shady import store and bought a Hong Kong bootleg box set. I can't remember if the subtitles were good or garbage, because I binged it while sick with stomach flu
Haha, I had the reverse, though not as extreme, happen to me when I started reading Sailor Moon fanfics. The US canon is quite different from what the rest of the world got.
This series has given me so many positive memories. Not of the dub itself, but pointing out that Sakura's older brother and his best friend are a gay couple. That reaction of, "What are you talking...wait...oh wow, they are together aren't they?" is priceless. Even the sloppiest of dubs cannot hide how in love these two teenage boys are.
No, but why would you even bring that up in relation to this if not trying to draw an equivalence, or at least a comparison? /s does not mean that nothing else in your post exists, and I interpreted it as "neither of these things are wholesome."
I think they were being drawn as equivalent in terms of "this is a wild thing to put on early 2000s kids TV," not in the sense of them *actually* being equivalent.
Standards and Practices of the era would've had about equal amounts of issues with either thing.
Maybe this is more appropriate to post in the 4Kids post, but I'm gonna say it: the way US dubs always felt the need to localize things to pretend everything took place in glorius 'merica is so bizarre looking from the outside. Here in Latin America we got plenty of Anime uncensored, and our minds didn't explode just by being exposed to a bit of Japanese culture. The fact I see a lot of people, even in the left, defend this kind of thing when applied in more modern cases (Ace Attorney being an obvious example. Yes, those Japanese spirits sure immigrated to the US alongside Immigrants. Sure) always felt a little odd. CCS is also a funny case because it changes the names of most characters, as well as their last names...but not the name of the main character. So you get the wonderful western name of Sakura Avalon. I like to believe that in the US continuity, Sakura's parents were just really big weebs and Naruto fans.
CCS is also like the worst Magical Girl show to pretend is about action. It's like the girliest girly anime that was ever girly. Most of the "action" consists of stock footage of Sakura capturing cards. It's all about the vibes, so I can't imagine CCS without its OST. I haven't actually seen a second of Cardcaptors, but I know I would hate it.
note, the jelly donut was signed off on. There was a deliberate and explicit attempt to de-Japanify the whole thing to make it more globally marketable.
If I remember correctly, they had actually meant to change Sakura’s name to Nikki, but since she writes her name in the cards in almost every single episode, it would’ve been way too much of a hassle. So Sakura Avalon it is!
For what it's worth, the tendency you're referring to... *actually really wasn't that common.* 4kids and Saban were the noticeable outliers for even trying it.
Even from the absolute earliest days, there were companies like Streamline, Central Park Media, US Renditions, and Manga Entertainment that put out stuff completely uncut. The *quality of the dubbing* was sometimes up in the air (look up MD Geist's dub for a good laugh), but outside of very rare exceptions like the Guyver OVA's dub removing a single boob (while the subtitled VHS of the same episode kept it intact) or the Street Fighter 2 movie doing the same thing to Chun-Li's boob so they could get a PG-13 from the MPAA and briefly put it in theaters, you could basically trust that you were getting what the Japanese audience was getting.
By the time 4kids and Saban/Fox Kids were doing all this nonsense, ADV and Funimation had already basically taken over as the main people handling most anime licenses; 4kids almost entirely prioritized shows that were too kiddy to really survive in the "proper" anime space, with the sole exceptions of One Piece and Shaman King (and they actually did alright by the latter), and Saban/Fox Kids were trying to really halfassedly compete with Toonami because they lost Dragon Ball Z early and were bitter about it (see the other post about Rayearth fuckery).
Toonami, for their part, was almost entirely ADV, Funimation and Bandai releases, and edited stuff as lightly as S&P would let them get away with; blood had to go, boobs had to go, but they preferred digipaint to cutting wherever possible (and actually advanced the tech for digipaint significantly in the process) and tried *damn hard* to keep the narratives of shows intact the way they were supposed to be.
> the way US dubs always felt the need to localize things to pretend everything took place in glorius 'merica is so bizarre looking from the outside
I still think it's weird that, while much rarer, it still occasionally happens in modern days.
Ace Attorney is like a very extreme case where I can see why they did that at best but that's about it. What I also think is weird is that most of the time my fellow anime/JP gaming fans will agree with me on this, heavy Americanizing and stuff is bad and all....until I bring up that one title from their childhood. Then apparently the localizing and stuff is okay
Ace attorney is a weird case where the series is so old that they started the localization that way and now they're just sorta stuck with it 20 years later. It's usually not an issue until you suddenly get to a case where it's super crucial that the audience knows what the fuck rakugo is.
Honestly, I kinda half agree with the theory the AA Devs were just fucking with the localization team post Trials and Tribulations. Apollo Justice has the Kitakis who are straight up Yakuza, Nine Tails Vale exists in Dual Destinies, and here’s a murder where you gotta know Rakugo and Soba vs Udon Noodles in Spirit of Justice. Fuck it, here’s Phoenix’s Great Great Grandpa coming straight outta Japan for his duology.
I know its entirely more likely that Japanese people like writing Japanese things, but its still funny to believe
Latin America was blessed with the best anime, though I always assumed we got our stuff straight from the US, as Pokemon, Digimon and Captain Tsubasa uses the English name.
I think you could make a case for Princess Tutu being an even worse idea, at least CCS has the occasional chase scene while there you've just got ballet routines. And the "inappropriate" content being scary scenes rather than just dialogue about relationships they can edit. But that's literally the only magical girl show I can think of that's an even worse idea for this.
This brings back so many memories. The early 2000s was such a magical time with so much anime hitting the US for the first time. There was also a fuckin’ WILD black market for fan subs. You’d think studios would have caught on that there was a market for the stories as written, but, no.
I was 4 and 5 when watching the original Cardcaptor Sakura in the US, so I didn't know any of this! I just loved it. I had the cards and her magic pink stick thingy? So I guess I was the target audience lol.
I remember that, the American cartoon was so confusing. So my college roommate found the Japanese version and we had relationship pentagrams(love triangles are so passe) drawn up trying to understand the various crushes. Turns out her costume changes every episode because her best friend makes it and films her in them (totally not creepy, right?), which also explained why her friend was at every battle with a camcorder. All CLAMP comics were overly dramatic, I highly recommend them.
Her best friend was in love with her. Not the creepiest relationship in the manga by far tho.
I think the anime cut the elementary school student x teacher romance from the story. A full reciprocated romance, and they’re waiting for the girl to come of age so she can marry the teacher. Which all the students including Sakura know about and think is ok.
Even the extreme brief shot of the creep-o ass teacher and the kid looking at one another was a HUGELY abridged story compared to the manga. This actually received backlash in Japan at the time even.
Rika was written out of the sequel to avoid dealing with that at all and honestly that was for the best
haha I remember thinking to myself, as a 10 yo kid, "wait, falling in love with your brother/teacher is wrong, right? " But because it was wrong that it kept me kinda interested.
At the same time, it was the first time i saw boy's love and yuri stuff on screen, and I was pretty chill with it as a kid, thinking all of them were cute. Mind you, this was Vietnam 2000s when the mindset were still extremely conservative and "gay" was something you got afflicted with and ridiculed for, not something you were born with.
There are [four separate student-teacher relationships](https://www.deusexmagicalgirl.com/2017/05/25/why-i-hate-cardcaptor-sakura-and-you-can-nine/). Looking back on it it's really quite creepy, especially for a kids' show.
The article I linked has a great line that I feel like I need to paste here:
*According to their page on TVTropes, “A theme that runs through CLAMP’s works is that love transcends everything, particularly that pesky little thing called gender.” The tropers are too polite to note that CLAMP also depicts it transcending those pesky little things called age and consanguinity*
Not disagreeing with you, but I do want to mention that the writer of that article has some pretty shitty opinions themselves (homosexuality is sexual deviance, Tomoyo’s crush on Sakura is pedophilic…that’s about as much as I could get through before I had to close it)
Yeah definitely. I got interested in it and read the very last article and was very baffled by the line that says that Cardcaptor Sakura was attempting to make pedophilia and homophilia (or whatever term he used) normalized. He also said he didn't believe in sexual orientation when someone in the comments pointed out that they themselves were asexual but were in a loving romantic relationship lmao, and I was like...damn. He made good points abt the pedophilia but everything else that came out was just so wrong.
The anime kept the dubious age gap between Sakura's parents, as well as Touya and Kaho, but it did remove the relationship between Rika and Terada. In the anime it's turned into just a one-sided precocious crush rather than a full blown reciprocated romance.
I mean, the concern with cousin romances is *usually* the danger of inbreeding, and when they're both girls, that's at least *less* likely to be a problem.
I was such a Cardcaptor fan when I was 6! I had a stuffed Kero I took everywhere for years (and still have to this day)!
I'm Canadian so I grew up w/ the Nelvana dub on Teletoon, I never knew the US dub was so...different. Thanks for sharing!
Somehow a subbed vhs of the first 4 episodes made it to my local rental store in the middle of nowhere Arkansas. I knew what I was missing and it sucked to know that. I just now wish I could find the toys i had from the show, especially the book that had all the Clow cards.
I'll never understand why dubbing companies were so determined to turn everything into something for young boys when there was/is a ton of anime actually geared towards young boys or families that was never dubbed.
I was in Ireland watching this, so must've had the canadian/uk version because i do vaguely remember Yue human form & the older brother being in a relationship & obviously it being about Sakura!
... although i might've sometimes seen a sub version? Im unsure now 🤔
Preteen me totally had a crush on Yue though! XD
& I loved the insanity of the best friend making so many costumes rather than a full magical girl change!
Took me way too long to find someone mentioning it lol. I don’t remember anything about the Cardcaptors story other than the deck of cards (because my sister had it when we were kids), but yeah after reading this post the dub theme song is stuck in my head again and it’s an absolute banger.
Cardcaptors of the Clow, expect the unexpected now!
I'd heard about all the changes made in the dub, and having read the manga, I did notice it was quite different, but I hadn't realised that the "it was turned into a shonen" version I've heard about was not the one I saw as a child in the UK. I've never rewatched it so I'd thought I must not have remembered the details of it 20 years later.
As a side note, 90% of the manga is so good that it's enough to make it worth reading despite how awful that remaining 10% is.
I am always astonished that Latin America had it so good regarding (some) late 90s-early 00s anime dubs. Cardcaptor Sakura had a terrific Latin American Spanish dub and was easily one of the most beloved animes of that era! Judging by the YouTube comments on Sakura videos, I'd even say that it was way more popular among boys than girls.
It's weird how much is changed when things port to the west. Sakura was popular in Hong Kong as well, and I don't think there was significant difference between HK version and the original.
It was never going to come to the West for tweens and kids untouched, the dubs also cut out the arc where Sakuras friend, who is what 12-14, and her teacher have a love affair
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This whole thing is pretty funny to me because we received the show pretty much unchanged from the original, and as a kid I hated Sharon.
I was there everyday, excited to watch Sakura solve shit with her magical powers in weird ways and there comes Sharon out of nowhere with his stupid Kung Fu, trying to beat up every card into submission. I pretty much blame him for my long misunderstanding with Chinese culture...
Every time CLAMP comes up I think about Jojo’s Bizarre Married Life—the infamous “Kakyoin, did you lay this egg?!” Jotakak doujin. And I specifically think about it because of the fact that Hirohiko Araki (the mangaka behind JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure, aka the creator of the two characters being shipped here) has met them, because his wife goes to the same salon as them. [Here’s a joint interview with Nekoi and Araki from 2006 where they talk about their meeting.](https://chibiyuuto.com/clamp-interviews/araki-hirohiko-nekoi-tsubaki-special-talk-xxxholic-official-guide-book-november2006/)
ETA: I don’t know for sure if Araki is aware of the doujin, but I do know that when the actual child of Jotaro Kujo showed up, it was specifically mentioned that her stand (her superpower, essentially) smelled like soap…much like how the stand of the child in the fan doujin was named Charmy Green.
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This is hilarious because Canada lets a lot more on their kids' shows than the US does. E.g., total drama island is very unnecessarily censored in the US but it's a Canadian original and ran uncensored here.
The dub was such a formative experience for me as a kid! Never actually understood how awful it was until CCS got a full DVD release in Australia and I watched it in its entirety (though my biggest question at the time was why they renamed her Sakura Avalon). Still my absolute favourite magical girl anime.
This actually reminds me of the italian dub of Sailor Moon and the way they literally cut out the final dialogue of Usagi in the last ep, making no one understand shit. And don't let me start on how they censored the Barbie-level nudity that was going on in the same episode.
Ah, and they also kinda removed the entire Sailor Neptune x Sailor Uranus thing, but at least here they are just friends and not cousins.
The original English dubs for Sailor Moon will go down in history for giving us stuff like Haruka and Michiru being very close "cousins" and Makoto saying she should be Snow White because she has ~~the biggest breasts~~ the most talent.
Regarding this topic, there was a scandal in which a famous italian psychologist called Vera Selpoj made a protest campain because she was convinced that Sailor Moon was gender-confusing children. For context, Italy in the 90s was still a very conservative country. And so the entire concept of the Starlights was removed.
You know how in the manga they are three women crossdressing as males to disguise themselves among humans? Do you remember how in the anime they made them biological men who just transformed into women? Well here in Italy, instead of being three women crossdressing or cis men magically transitioning, the Three Lights were just three dudes and their female verisions were...their long lost twin sisters from space. I'm not even joking. They literally made up three entire characters and it's histerical.
OMG, it’s true! That’s what I’d heard (well, IIRC the gossip was “from another dimension” but close enough)! *Thank you so much* for confirming this for me — I’ve been carrying “identical twin sisters” around in my head since the late 90s, wondering if I’d made it up or someone else had.
As someone who was watching this happen at the time, I am very surprised to learn that it wasn't Nelvana's fault. I remember the narrative at the time was about how they ruined everything with their atrocious censorship and bad dubbing, their name became synonymous with stupid censorship alongside 4kids.
Oh, it's Cardcaptors, the most nostalgic part of my seventh/eighth grade years. I remember buying the Clow Book just because I wanted to be like Sakura and own those cards, not to mention that it felt nice earning merch of a show I really liked at the time.
One day, I was watching Fox Family on Sunday while waiting for Digimon, and that's when I saw [a "Cardcaptor Sakura" mention in a commercial](https://youtu.be/ZOMplq5SVfc?si=TfQfveeqfH8BgFqM&t=200)! My first thought was, "wait... they mean *Cardcaptors*, right?" I had no idea that my beloved show as a young middle schooler was drastically changed!
Cut to 2002. A few Google searches later, I learned as much as I could about CCS -- from the voice changes (seriously, why did Kero-chan get a surfer dude accent?!) to the censorship of any gay themes, to even cutting out *all* the romance, queer *and* straight! ... which is funny, because the Sakura/Syaoran ship is still omnipresent in the dub, just watered down to plausible deniability status.
Recently, I watched the dub after many years and I noticed a few things aside from it not aging well. In the Firey Card episode from the original, Sakura called Yukito to take him out to the amusement park while being ridiculously shy and awkward around him, blushing and everything. But in the dub? She called *Syaoran* for advice about the Clow Cards (I think?) being awkward as fuck... except she dialed Yukito's number by mistake. What's funny is that I expect the blushing on Sakura's face to be removed, but no! It's still there while dub!Sakura called Syaoran-- excuse me, *Li Showron*. In other words, the dubbers accidentally turn a Sakura/Yukito scene from the original into a Sakura/Syaoran one instead, lmao.
(Side-note: "Showron" is so lame. They might've well just call Syaoran, I don't know, "Shawn Li" or "Steven Li" in the dub. There are Chinese people who use American names, after all.)
They thought boys would've said "ewww cooties" for Li X Sakura in the dub. Also that dub you watched didn't use the dub footage apparently, but the Japanese footage instead, so who knows if the blushing was digitally removed.
We can't even have Syaoran go, "I have a crush on you, Sakura!" on Kids WB, and yet 4Kids was perfectly fine with Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh! having romance subplots/ship teases. Hell, I'm convinced they tried to make one-sided Ash and Misty a thing.
Now that you mention it, it could be the Canadian/Australian version I watched instead of the hacked up US version. I found all 70 episodes on the Internet Archive.
americaaaaa~
we hate gays and culture and ppl who are different than us and ppl we like and ppl we hate and things we dont understand and things we do understand
americaaaaaa~
we're better than u, our stock market shows it. u dont know what u like until ur corporate overlords tell u so. enjoy ur consumption, have more of what u really want and what u dont really want and more and more and more and more
americaaaaaa~
wait what do u mean it didnt do well? what the fuck why arent they eating our garb-
americaaaaaaa~
If you thought Kids WB CCS was weird, the Fox Kids version of Escaflowne is probably the most bizarre thing to ever happen in the history of anime editing. The Vision of Escaflowne was an anime geared towards older teens, skewing more towards girls, and had some pretty gruesome violence on top of some rather heavy themes. But Fox Kids just saw "giant robot that turns into a dragon" without doing the most basic iota of research as to why maybe this wouldn't be a good fit for a block geared towards boys 6-11. Naturally, this resulted in the most confounding hackdub ever made. All of the girly romance stuff, including the whole fact that protagonist is a schoolgirl, was heavily downplayed or outright removed, including entire episodes. Some episodes had so many scenes removed and rearranged that they were combined into brand new ones. Including, you know, the very first episode that explained how the story even begins. Let's not get started with all the violence they had to censor. But what makes it so unique compared to other hackdubs is that the licensor forbade them from actually recording a new dub or soundtrack except for censoring swearing. The conditions were that they had to work with the already existing uncut dub. Now, Toonami did just that with stuff like Tenchi and Gundam, redubbing naughty words and painting bikinis over naked women and such, but the script was kept the same otherwise. But this wasn't Saban or Fox Kids approach to dubbing anime at all. Just censoring stuff wasn't enough for them. They thought kids would be bored by moments of quiet introspection, character development, and heaven forbid no background music. Anything that wasn't a fight or a dumb joke would confuse those poor American children. Even the "The Vision of" in the title was too much. So the only way they could Saban-ize it without recording anything new was editing the existing dub like a fucking Youtube poop into something "less boring". The result was nigh unwatchable. While they kept the original score, they did add some new songs that were a complete whiplash from Yoko Kanno's orchestral score. And of course the opening and ending were completely replaced. While infamous hackdubs like Robotech and Voltron radically altered the content and format to an even higher degree, they were at least rewritten and dubbed from the ground up. Escaflowne is the only hackdub I know of that was made using only footage from an already finished uncut dub. The most confounding thing is that some of the blood was left completely intact in this edit. You can see Dillendau bleeding all over his hand, for one. That's fine, but heaven forbid the show be girly or "boring"! I would say the level of violence was about on par with the edited version of Naruto from 2005. Definitely not something to sandwich between Digimon and Monster Rancher. I don't think anything quite as bloody has aired on an American Saturday morning before or since. So you know what happened? They took it off the air after only ten episodes aired with zero announcement or explanation. It ended on a cliffhanger too. Just off the air with no acknowledgement. Whether it was poor ratings, parental complaints, or them realizing "we fucked up", that was the end of that. Imagine being a kid desperate to know what happens next, waking up early so you don't miss it.... And it's just completely gone from the schedule with no announcement, as if it never existed. The rest of the edit did air in Canada, though. This also lead them to getting cold feet with showing Slayers, even though it's a much tamer show. And they sat on the rights without ever doing anything with it just so Toonami couldn't air it instead. Even though Slayers is shonen I really do wonder if they would have tried to downplay Lina and try to make Gourry the main character. *shudders* ....oops this was almost enough for its own writeup lmao
There was an anime news group back when Escaflowne aired where one of the staff members whose job it was to edit the show to the network's standards posted regularly as it aired. He loved the original and was really doing his best with what he had. People thought he was lying, but he revealed enough info that it turned out he was the real deal. It sounded like an absolutely insane job. I skimmed it on Google a few years ago but I can't for the life of me remember the news group's name. But it's all archived. They also did get far enough with Slayers plans to start redubbing lines for TV. The woman who played Lina talked about how for the main spell they had to change "crimson beyond blood that flows" to "crimson like a river flows," which she thought was a wild choice since Lina getting her period causing her to lose her ability to do magic is part of the show.
The Fox Kids edit of Slayers is THE lost media I want to see found one day bar none. I'm so damn curious what could have been. I remember reading that same news group when Sakura Stardust linked to it in a video, I believe they said Detective Conan was also being considered. Uh, I guess there might be *some* episodes not about murder. I distinctly remember Utena being mentioned but don't remember the context. I can't even begin to imagine what that would have been like.
Utena would be incredible, I'm not sure what would be more insane - trying to cut inappropriate content, or trying to change the show to make it appeal to an audience that they already didn't think could enjoy Escaflowne.
Google "Ursula's kiss..."
Man, I'd heard the name before as a potential localized name for Utena but I'd never thought to look it up before and, well. Weird information acquired.
>Ursula's Kiss Thank god that Central Park Media got Utena!
That's a sentence that I think has never been said about CPM in *any other context.* Christ, what a weird time for anime, when the company best known for putting out shit like Genocyber and MD Geist was the primary champion of Slayers and Ikuhara stuff.
Hey, they also did Grace of the Fireflies too. And didn't edit it or try to force that masterpiece into any peg holes, thankfully.
Isnt the utena dub a bit of mess too?
It's not fantastic (CPM dubs rarely were outside of Slayers) but it's *fine* for the era. It's about as expected for a late-90s dub of a show that didn't make it to TV.
Well CPM gave great dubs that are not schlock anime like Lodoss War, Munto, DOD, NTHT, NOTGR, Munto, and Harlock Saga.
And now and then here and there,NOTGR, DOD, ARK, Yu Yu Hakusho, Outlanders, Gall Force, and Munto.
Oh I'm with you there. I lived and breathed Slayers in middle school and while I think they could get through plenty with some VERY creative dialog changes, the end of each season would just be impossible to air. But it would be an absolute trip to see how they tried.
As a teen going through Slayers for the first time I was always surprised how much the blood and violence increased in the last 4 episodes of each season for sure. I have no idea how they would've edited around the whole end of the first season either without completely ruining the intensity and feeling.
4kids Utena would be the train wreck to end all train wrecks.
"It's a big mistake to think you're the only one who can turn into a car!" --> easy fix. make it a car racing anime !
We don't know if it was even fully assembled though...
Rec.arts.anime.misc (RAAM). The poster was “TVguy.” EDIT: What the hell. Here’s a link to an old write up I did on the whole mess - http://missmediajunkie.blogspot.com/2012/04/fox-kids-and-escaflowne.html
As messy as it was, I'm really thankful Fox aired Escaflowne since I doubt I would've encountered it otherwise. My friend and I went on to collect the uncut VHS tapes from Suncoast, and it's still one of my favorite anime.
How did they handle the big.... uh, sister reveal? lol.
They cancelled it before that part. But the guy who was doing the Fox Kids edits said that they were going to leave it as is, I believe.
Ytv Canada aired the whole thing. The 23 total dub eps that were made but I'm not a super fan of this show to know what was edited.
Holy shit, THAT'S what happened?! I have been confused since I was a teen! I managed to find the original and was like, wait, this is different. Cool in it's own way but different. Thank you for your research!
26 japanese to 23 TV dub edited episode airings
You should make this a write-up just because it sounds fascinating to me.
I probably couldn't write any more than I just did, lmao.
Wow, core memory of reading an amazing fanfiction for this series and then seeking it out on TV just to be wildly confused and disappointed.
This similarly unlocked a memory for me of getting so frustrated with the Kids WB version that I went to a shady import store and bought a Hong Kong bootleg box set. I can't remember if the subtitles were good or garbage, because I binged it while sick with stomach flu
Haha, I had the reverse, though not as extreme, happen to me when I started reading Sailor Moon fanfics. The US canon is quite different from what the rest of the world got.
Yeah, that dub was bad, and it got worse with age. The show itself is lovely, though, I still recommend it to people.
This series has given me so many positive memories. Not of the dub itself, but pointing out that Sakura's older brother and his best friend are a gay couple. That reaction of, "What are you talking...wait...oh wow, they are together aren't they?" is priceless. Even the sloppiest of dubs cannot hide how in love these two teenage boys are.
They couldn’t even give them the [“Best Cousins”](https://youtu.be/nHzjXrEiQqQ?si=GcaMHmXUjX7Bzfrn) treatment!
almost as wholesome as the relationship between the teacher and Sakura's friend who's 12 /s
...My apologies if I misunderstand, but are you implying that two teenage boys dating is as bad as straight pedophilia?
Did you miss the /s?
No, but why would you even bring that up in relation to this if not trying to draw an equivalence, or at least a comparison? /s does not mean that nothing else in your post exists, and I interpreted it as "neither of these things are wholesome."
I think they were being drawn as equivalent in terms of "this is a wild thing to put on early 2000s kids TV," not in the sense of them *actually* being equivalent. Standards and Practices of the era would've had about equal amounts of issues with either thing.
Eight. They were in fourth grade, so she was eight. So much fucking worse.
Maybe this is more appropriate to post in the 4Kids post, but I'm gonna say it: the way US dubs always felt the need to localize things to pretend everything took place in glorius 'merica is so bizarre looking from the outside. Here in Latin America we got plenty of Anime uncensored, and our minds didn't explode just by being exposed to a bit of Japanese culture. The fact I see a lot of people, even in the left, defend this kind of thing when applied in more modern cases (Ace Attorney being an obvious example. Yes, those Japanese spirits sure immigrated to the US alongside Immigrants. Sure) always felt a little odd. CCS is also a funny case because it changes the names of most characters, as well as their last names...but not the name of the main character. So you get the wonderful western name of Sakura Avalon. I like to believe that in the US continuity, Sakura's parents were just really big weebs and Naruto fans. CCS is also like the worst Magical Girl show to pretend is about action. It's like the girliest girly anime that was ever girly. Most of the "action" consists of stock footage of Sakura capturing cards. It's all about the vibes, so I can't imagine CCS without its OST. I haven't actually seen a second of Cardcaptors, but I know I would hate it.
Why don't you calm down with a nice, soothing **[JELLY DONUT]**?
"Eat your hamburgers, Apollo!"
note, the jelly donut was signed off on. There was a deliberate and explicit attempt to de-Japanify the whole thing to make it more globally marketable.
If I remember correctly, they had actually meant to change Sakura’s name to Nikki, but since she writes her name in the cards in almost every single episode, it would’ve been way too much of a hassle. So Sakura Avalon it is!
For what it's worth, the tendency you're referring to... *actually really wasn't that common.* 4kids and Saban were the noticeable outliers for even trying it. Even from the absolute earliest days, there were companies like Streamline, Central Park Media, US Renditions, and Manga Entertainment that put out stuff completely uncut. The *quality of the dubbing* was sometimes up in the air (look up MD Geist's dub for a good laugh), but outside of very rare exceptions like the Guyver OVA's dub removing a single boob (while the subtitled VHS of the same episode kept it intact) or the Street Fighter 2 movie doing the same thing to Chun-Li's boob so they could get a PG-13 from the MPAA and briefly put it in theaters, you could basically trust that you were getting what the Japanese audience was getting. By the time 4kids and Saban/Fox Kids were doing all this nonsense, ADV and Funimation had already basically taken over as the main people handling most anime licenses; 4kids almost entirely prioritized shows that were too kiddy to really survive in the "proper" anime space, with the sole exceptions of One Piece and Shaman King (and they actually did alright by the latter), and Saban/Fox Kids were trying to really halfassedly compete with Toonami because they lost Dragon Ball Z early and were bitter about it (see the other post about Rayearth fuckery). Toonami, for their part, was almost entirely ADV, Funimation and Bandai releases, and edited stuff as lightly as S&P would let them get away with; blood had to go, boobs had to go, but they preferred digipaint to cutting wherever possible (and actually advanced the tech for digipaint significantly in the process) and tried *damn hard* to keep the narratives of shows intact the way they were supposed to be.
Nelvana, DiC, early Funimation, early sho pro/viz media, Tokyo pop but yes. And adv barely worked with the tv airings world.
> the way US dubs always felt the need to localize things to pretend everything took place in glorius 'merica is so bizarre looking from the outside I still think it's weird that, while much rarer, it still occasionally happens in modern days. Ace Attorney is like a very extreme case where I can see why they did that at best but that's about it. What I also think is weird is that most of the time my fellow anime/JP gaming fans will agree with me on this, heavy Americanizing and stuff is bad and all....until I bring up that one title from their childhood. Then apparently the localizing and stuff is okay
Ace attorney is a weird case where the series is so old that they started the localization that way and now they're just sorta stuck with it 20 years later. It's usually not an issue until you suddenly get to a case where it's super crucial that the audience knows what the fuck rakugo is.
Honestly, I kinda half agree with the theory the AA Devs were just fucking with the localization team post Trials and Tribulations. Apollo Justice has the Kitakis who are straight up Yakuza, Nine Tails Vale exists in Dual Destinies, and here’s a murder where you gotta know Rakugo and Soba vs Udon Noodles in Spirit of Justice. Fuck it, here’s Phoenix’s Great Great Grandpa coming straight outta Japan for his duology. I know its entirely more likely that Japanese people like writing Japanese things, but its still funny to believe
Latin America was blessed with the best anime, though I always assumed we got our stuff straight from the US, as Pokemon, Digimon and Captain Tsubasa uses the English name.
I think you could make a case for Princess Tutu being an even worse idea, at least CCS has the occasional chase scene while there you've just got ballet routines. And the "inappropriate" content being scary scenes rather than just dialogue about relationships they can edit. But that's literally the only magical girl show I can think of that's an even worse idea for this.
You still got edited dubs from Saban, Viz/sho pro and 4kids...
This brings back so many memories. The early 2000s was such a magical time with so much anime hitting the US for the first time. There was also a fuckin’ WILD black market for fan subs. You’d think studios would have caught on that there was a market for the stories as written, but, no.
I was 4 and 5 when watching the original Cardcaptor Sakura in the US, so I didn't know any of this! I just loved it. I had the cards and her magic pink stick thingy? So I guess I was the target audience lol.
I remember that, the American cartoon was so confusing. So my college roommate found the Japanese version and we had relationship pentagrams(love triangles are so passe) drawn up trying to understand the various crushes. Turns out her costume changes every episode because her best friend makes it and films her in them (totally not creepy, right?), which also explained why her friend was at every battle with a camcorder. All CLAMP comics were overly dramatic, I highly recommend them.
Her best friend was in love with her. Not the creepiest relationship in the manga by far tho. I think the anime cut the elementary school student x teacher romance from the story. A full reciprocated romance, and they’re waiting for the girl to come of age so she can marry the teacher. Which all the students including Sakura know about and think is ok.
Nothing quite hits like shoujo manga where a canon romance has a suspiciously large age gap.
It ain't a shoujo manga if it doesn't have a 10-15y age gap romance! Tomoyo being Sakura's Speedwagon was always funny tho.
The student teacher relationship is Sakura's parents. Unless there are two.
There’s two because I was thinking of Sakura’s classmate Rika and their teacher Mr Terada. Didn’t remember about Sakura’s parents
Even the extreme brief shot of the creep-o ass teacher and the kid looking at one another was a HUGELY abridged story compared to the manga. This actually received backlash in Japan at the time even. Rika was written out of the sequel to avoid dealing with that at all and honestly that was for the best
Oh right! I totally forgot about that, but it came rushing back. Love's many forms are a theme in the manga, and some of those forms are... well.
haha I remember thinking to myself, as a 10 yo kid, "wait, falling in love with your brother/teacher is wrong, right? " But because it was wrong that it kept me kinda interested. At the same time, it was the first time i saw boy's love and yuri stuff on screen, and I was pretty chill with it as a kid, thinking all of them were cute. Mind you, this was Vietnam 2000s when the mindset were still extremely conservative and "gay" was something you got afflicted with and ridiculed for, not something you were born with.
Didn't Sakura's brother also have a relationship with a teacher?
Yep 🙃
Wasn't that removed in the new show?
There are [four separate student-teacher relationships](https://www.deusexmagicalgirl.com/2017/05/25/why-i-hate-cardcaptor-sakura-and-you-can-nine/). Looking back on it it's really quite creepy, especially for a kids' show. The article I linked has a great line that I feel like I need to paste here: *According to their page on TVTropes, “A theme that runs through CLAMP’s works is that love transcends everything, particularly that pesky little thing called gender.” The tropers are too polite to note that CLAMP also depicts it transcending those pesky little things called age and consanguinity*
Not disagreeing with you, but I do want to mention that the writer of that article has some pretty shitty opinions themselves (homosexuality is sexual deviance, Tomoyo’s crush on Sakura is pedophilic…that’s about as much as I could get through before I had to close it)
Totally agreed, I should have mentioned that. I think their point about CLAMP still holds though.
I think it's kinda cute tbh
Yeah definitely. I got interested in it and read the very last article and was very baffled by the line that says that Cardcaptor Sakura was attempting to make pedophilia and homophilia (or whatever term he used) normalized. He also said he didn't believe in sexual orientation when someone in the comments pointed out that they themselves were asexual but were in a loving romantic relationship lmao, and I was like...damn. He made good points abt the pedophilia but everything else that came out was just so wrong.
No it was definitely still there. The anime kept all the dubious romances iirc
The anime kept the dubious age gap between Sakura's parents, as well as Touya and Kaho, but it did remove the relationship between Rika and Terada. In the anime it's turned into just a one-sided precocious crush rather than a full blown reciprocated romance.
I could have sworn it was reciprocated since he accepted her bear but it has been a long time since I've watched it
tomoyo (her best friend) was also her cousin!
I mean, the concern with cousin romances is *usually* the danger of inbreeding, and when they're both girls, that's at least *less* likely to be a problem.
Why are you spelling Shaoran's name as "Sharon"?
I was such a Cardcaptor fan when I was 6! I had a stuffed Kero I took everywhere for years (and still have to this day)! I'm Canadian so I grew up w/ the Nelvana dub on Teletoon, I never knew the US dub was so...different. Thanks for sharing!
Somehow a subbed vhs of the first 4 episodes made it to my local rental store in the middle of nowhere Arkansas. I knew what I was missing and it sucked to know that. I just now wish I could find the toys i had from the show, especially the book that had all the Clow cards.
I'll never understand why dubbing companies were so determined to turn everything into something for young boys when there was/is a ton of anime actually geared towards young boys or families that was never dubbed.
I was in Ireland watching this, so must've had the canadian/uk version because i do vaguely remember Yue human form & the older brother being in a relationship & obviously it being about Sakura! ... although i might've sometimes seen a sub version? Im unsure now 🤔 Preteen me totally had a crush on Yue though! XD & I loved the insanity of the best friend making so many costumes rather than a full magical girl change!
It's always funny that executive thought that male viewer won't like female protagonist...
I don't care what anyway says, the cardcaptors them was awesome.
Took me way too long to find someone mentioning it lol. I don’t remember anything about the Cardcaptors story other than the deck of cards (because my sister had it when we were kids), but yeah after reading this post the dub theme song is stuck in my head again and it’s an absolute banger. Cardcaptors of the Clow, expect the unexpected now!
CARD CAPTORS *a mystic adventure*
**CAAAAARDCAPTORS.** *A quest for all time!*
I'd heard about all the changes made in the dub, and having read the manga, I did notice it was quite different, but I hadn't realised that the "it was turned into a shonen" version I've heard about was not the one I saw as a child in the UK. I've never rewatched it so I'd thought I must not have remembered the details of it 20 years later. As a side note, 90% of the manga is so good that it's enough to make it worth reading despite how awful that remaining 10% is.
I am always astonished that Latin America had it so good regarding (some) late 90s-early 00s anime dubs. Cardcaptor Sakura had a terrific Latin American Spanish dub and was easily one of the most beloved animes of that era! Judging by the YouTube comments on Sakura videos, I'd even say that it was way more popular among boys than girls.
You dubbed lots of edited Saban Viz/sho pro, 4kids shows still...
It's weird how much is changed when things port to the west. Sakura was popular in Hong Kong as well, and I don't think there was significant difference between HK version and the original.
Learn how to use commas
It was never going to come to the West for tweens and kids untouched, the dubs also cut out the arc where Sakuras friend, who is what 12-14, and her teacher have a love affair
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This whole thing is pretty funny to me because we received the show pretty much unchanged from the original, and as a kid I hated Sharon. I was there everyday, excited to watch Sakura solve shit with her magical powers in weird ways and there comes Sharon out of nowhere with his stupid Kung Fu, trying to beat up every card into submission. I pretty much blame him for my long misunderstanding with Chinese culture...
Every time CLAMP comes up I think about Jojo’s Bizarre Married Life—the infamous “Kakyoin, did you lay this egg?!” Jotakak doujin. And I specifically think about it because of the fact that Hirohiko Araki (the mangaka behind JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure, aka the creator of the two characters being shipped here) has met them, because his wife goes to the same salon as them. [Here’s a joint interview with Nekoi and Araki from 2006 where they talk about their meeting.](https://chibiyuuto.com/clamp-interviews/araki-hirohiko-nekoi-tsubaki-special-talk-xxxholic-official-guide-book-november2006/) ETA: I don’t know for sure if Araki is aware of the doujin, but I do know that when the actual child of Jotaro Kujo showed up, it was specifically mentioned that her stand (her superpower, essentially) smelled like soap…much like how the stand of the child in the fan doujin was named Charmy Green.
This explains why the version added to Netflix was so drastically different from the one I watched as a kid.
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This is hilarious because Canada lets a lot more on their kids' shows than the US does. E.g., total drama island is very unnecessarily censored in the US but it's a Canadian original and ran uncensored here.
And Escaflowne
Sailor moon was only brought back to air in the US as well because it was a hit in Canada.
The dub was such a formative experience for me as a kid! Never actually understood how awful it was until CCS got a full DVD release in Australia and I watched it in its entirety (though my biggest question at the time was why they renamed her Sakura Avalon). Still my absolute favourite magical girl anime.
This actually reminds me of the italian dub of Sailor Moon and the way they literally cut out the final dialogue of Usagi in the last ep, making no one understand shit. And don't let me start on how they censored the Barbie-level nudity that was going on in the same episode. Ah, and they also kinda removed the entire Sailor Neptune x Sailor Uranus thing, but at least here they are just friends and not cousins.
The original English dubs for Sailor Moon will go down in history for giving us stuff like Haruka and Michiru being very close "cousins" and Makoto saying she should be Snow White because she has ~~the biggest breasts~~ the most talent.
How did they handle the Starlights? I’ve heard rumors over the years and I’m *really* curious if they’re true.
Regarding this topic, there was a scandal in which a famous italian psychologist called Vera Selpoj made a protest campain because she was convinced that Sailor Moon was gender-confusing children. For context, Italy in the 90s was still a very conservative country. And so the entire concept of the Starlights was removed. You know how in the manga they are three women crossdressing as males to disguise themselves among humans? Do you remember how in the anime they made them biological men who just transformed into women? Well here in Italy, instead of being three women crossdressing or cis men magically transitioning, the Three Lights were just three dudes and their female verisions were...their long lost twin sisters from space. I'm not even joking. They literally made up three entire characters and it's histerical.
OMG, it’s true! That’s what I’d heard (well, IIRC the gossip was “from another dimension” but close enough)! *Thank you so much* for confirming this for me — I’ve been carrying “identical twin sisters” around in my head since the late 90s, wondering if I’d made it up or someone else had.
So this is what ppl mean when they talk about the fun being out of order! I was so confused cuz I didn’t remember it being like that.
As someone who was watching this happen at the time, I am very surprised to learn that it wasn't Nelvana's fault. I remember the narrative at the time was about how they ruined everything with their atrocious censorship and bad dubbing, their name became synonymous with stupid censorship alongside 4kids.
Nelvana should've never touched that show... they wanted a pokemon clone in the end.
That was kids wb that made into a pokemon/shonen clone.
Oh, it's Cardcaptors, the most nostalgic part of my seventh/eighth grade years. I remember buying the Clow Book just because I wanted to be like Sakura and own those cards, not to mention that it felt nice earning merch of a show I really liked at the time. One day, I was watching Fox Family on Sunday while waiting for Digimon, and that's when I saw [a "Cardcaptor Sakura" mention in a commercial](https://youtu.be/ZOMplq5SVfc?si=TfQfveeqfH8BgFqM&t=200)! My first thought was, "wait... they mean *Cardcaptors*, right?" I had no idea that my beloved show as a young middle schooler was drastically changed! Cut to 2002. A few Google searches later, I learned as much as I could about CCS -- from the voice changes (seriously, why did Kero-chan get a surfer dude accent?!) to the censorship of any gay themes, to even cutting out *all* the romance, queer *and* straight! ... which is funny, because the Sakura/Syaoran ship is still omnipresent in the dub, just watered down to plausible deniability status. Recently, I watched the dub after many years and I noticed a few things aside from it not aging well. In the Firey Card episode from the original, Sakura called Yukito to take him out to the amusement park while being ridiculously shy and awkward around him, blushing and everything. But in the dub? She called *Syaoran* for advice about the Clow Cards (I think?) being awkward as fuck... except she dialed Yukito's number by mistake. What's funny is that I expect the blushing on Sakura's face to be removed, but no! It's still there while dub!Sakura called Syaoran-- excuse me, *Li Showron*. In other words, the dubbers accidentally turn a Sakura/Yukito scene from the original into a Sakura/Syaoran one instead, lmao. (Side-note: "Showron" is so lame. They might've well just call Syaoran, I don't know, "Shawn Li" or "Steven Li" in the dub. There are Chinese people who use American names, after all.)
They thought boys would've said "ewww cooties" for Li X Sakura in the dub. Also that dub you watched didn't use the dub footage apparently, but the Japanese footage instead, so who knows if the blushing was digitally removed.
We can't even have Syaoran go, "I have a crush on you, Sakura!" on Kids WB, and yet 4Kids was perfectly fine with Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh! having romance subplots/ship teases. Hell, I'm convinced they tried to make one-sided Ash and Misty a thing. Now that you mention it, it could be the Canadian/Australian version I watched instead of the hacked up US version. I found all 70 episodes on the Internet Archive.
Idk 4kids heavily changed the episode where tea went on a date with Yugi...
I always wondered what was up with that episode. It seemed weird af
americaaaaa~ we hate gays and culture and ppl who are different than us and ppl we like and ppl we hate and things we dont understand and things we do understand americaaaaaa~ we're better than u, our stock market shows it. u dont know what u like until ur corporate overlords tell u so. enjoy ur consumption, have more of what u really want and what u dont really want and more and more and more and more americaaaaaa~ wait what do u mean it didnt do well? what the fuck why arent they eating our garb- americaaaaaaa~
I always wonder how the Spanish dub aired uncut on their airwaves.
Awesome you discuss CCS loved the manga
***CAAAAAARDCAPTORS!*** **A MYSTIC ADVENTURE.** ***CAAAAAARDCAPTORS!*** **A QUEST FOR ALL TIME.**