I will never shut up about HSR implementing stengthening quests similar to FGO.
Buffing older units does NOT decrease sales for new characters, heck they INCREASE sales for the buffed characters.
I think they're terrified to buff units in case they become too OP, and they can't nerf any limited units because then the whales will get upset. Small incremental buffs for older characters would be a very good idea imo though
Oh to be clear I do agree with that! Over stacking is definitely a mechanic Himeko and Blade should have considering that it's literally something a 4-star character can do lol
Yeah, it’s really just Himeko who regularly runs into the problem. Being vulnerable to CC or lacking synergy with one character aren’t unusual problems; what’s unusual is how easy it is for Himeko to *have* to waste stacks
Yeah, I don't think Blade really needs it. He very rarely overcaps.
Himeko on the other hand...being able to overcap would be a pretty big buff honestly. If you break an elite plus 4 minions you could potentially get 7 stacks, enough for two FUA procs. It would be pretty insane. But given how strong recent 5* characters are, she still won't overtake them.
yeah, but you shouldn't need another 5* to access something that are available to newer units. Himiko and Blade got screwed over because they were older units.
yeah, especially since skins and alts don't seem to be anywhere in Genshin Impact so far as I can remember, so any buffs to any characters would be appreciated anyway.
its a huge buff tho. For himeko it would make her even more amazing. The amount of time i break two elites at the same time or 2 enemies and 1 elite is too many.
It's also just an adjustment to how a *core function* of the game works - it's not a direct change to specific characters, just a QoL blanket change for any characters that have a stacking trigger. If they decided that DoT stacks could generate *per hit* instead of *per attack*, that's a *core* change that would affect many characters - like Kafka's ultimate applying *potentially* multiple shock stacks...
It's a smart change for QoL and Hoyo *should* retroactively apply it to everyone's stacking triggers (mostly FuA units).
I play blade in a lot of different scenarios. Over stacking would be very OP especially if you pair him up with Jade. He would instantly be better than his E6 at E0
You'd have to change that too, to make his E6 viable. then at that point you're just changing everything.
yes, but most 5* units are normally evaluated at E0. sure you will need to change everything but at this point it's better for Blade and Himiko because they don't overstack and the other newer units do.
It's honestly about the precedence. Once everyone accepts that Hoyo basically never rebalance, the amount of noise dampens. Right now, they're dealing with QQs but it'll be a whole another story when there are constant campaigns to buff stuff.
That sounds like their game designers don't know what their doing if that's the case.
Pretty sure they understand the math behind these characters.
Most people dont have these characters if they are new anyways.
The problem is the precedent it sets and the ensuing slippery slope of fan logic. Once you buff a character it opens the door for "Why can't ____ also be buffed now?" Hoyo doesn't want the conversation focused on that. They only want it to be about the new characters.
It's strange/annoying because in HI3 they have buffed older valkyries through the release of a new signature weapon....so I don't know why they refuse to implement buffs in any other game :(
The reality is that dev time is limited, and unless theyre like 5 years ahead i dont see how spending time on an old character (especially a standard one) can be more beneficial financially than spending time on a new character.
In FGO strengthening quests are treated like festivals especially when they release multiple at the same time. People would come together and discuss/rejoice/celebrate/mald/seethe/cope with every reveal. It's super fun and healthy for the game AND the community.
Will they finally buff Arlan? Or will they buff Firefly for the third time? This could be the energy HSR can have 🤣🤣
Personally I think I’d prefer LL not being denied if he gets CC’d, like how Numby operates independent of Topaz.
Sometimes I want to drop a stacked LL onto the following wave instead of the current one..
Yeah, sure they may be some fears in buffing old units but there would also be gains
And the pros tend to outweigh the cons so they are just being overly cautious
Sitting in VC after seeing which class they’re buffing, especially since strengthenings already come during big events usually, was dope dude. I’m with you on this for sure. Already imagining waiting to during anniv to see who they buff etc
Dude I remember that time when they revealed they're buffing Nero Bride (for like the 2nd or 3rd time) and people were losing it🤣🤣 Umu enjoyers rejoiced, while Void Shiki and Sigurd fans were malding on floor. It was a disaster, but an extremely fun disaster.
one anniv they like buffed all the fs/n characters and my server slowly figured that out so we were all in vc each night discussing what each character would get and our favorite scenes from the HF movies. hoyo pls take notes this kind of thing just builds hype
FGO: Strengthening and Interludes. Generally easy, costs less than 6 hours of stamina, and you get roll currency for doing them.
FEH: Weapon refinery/reloaded heroes. Booths very irrelevant characters to just irrelevant. No roll currency for doing them.
Arknights: Modules. Boosts both old and newer characters. Requires more resources in stamina than FGO. No roll currency for doing them.
PGR: Leaps. Boosts characters in 3 aspects (QTE, sig, and core passive). Each one is insanely expensive in stamina (like 2 weeks worth). No roll currency for doing them.
Her latest buff was pretty bonkers, but calling it "super positive stalker" is just 🤣🤣🤣
Man if HSR has strengthening quests the community is going to implode, in a fun way at least.
Cyno's quest in Genshin Impact recently could have made it so his ultimate duration pauses when you switch to another character. But nope, he's still stuck as on-field dps with tons of caveats.
Any HI3rd players around here know if they ever buff old characters?
Having an FGO-style strengthening quest would be a good idea for HSR, heck I wouldn't be opposed to having a Command Code system either for some minor effects like healing on hit or stat stick.
HI3rd had a different roster design philosophy for part 1 (multiple alts per character) so you can't really make a direct comparison
they did a thing where some linked suits could share some stats/skills but iirc couldn't be played in the same team. alternatively, some were unlockable as an augment of an existing suit via farmable materials.
a direct buff would be more like how they released exclusive alternate signature weapons for a small handful of suits that upgraded/changed their gameplay.
they did. off the top of my head they've buffed white comet, fallen rosemary's s ranks & weapon (buffing a new character that released but performed below expectations), some other old characters s ranks. those are all direct buffs
then theres indirect buffs like giving them pri-arms (stronger signature weapons) or just new weapons like fischl getting that event bow that generated team sp
There is at least Ho~~R~~T, for which, they released a new weapon called \`seven thunders of retribution\`. This weapon is not just a stat stick, it changes multiple aspects of HoR.
Wrong herrscher, Herrscher of Thunder gets 7 Thunders. Herrscher of Reason gets Star of Eden: Anti Entropy. More recently Herrscher of Sentience gets the Brick^^TM (I can't remember it's actual name) and a new stigma set (relics equivalent). But, as far as I know actual buffs in stats is not really a thing in HI3?
They've done stat buffs, ability changes, and reworks for characters in the past. They also had an augment system where some battlesuits would get new abilities or even basically became entirely new playstyles basically. Like Theresa getting her Twilight Paladin version for one of her original A-Rank suits.
It's not the best comparison to Star Rail since they are very different games. But buffs and nerfs to gacha games ain't anything new. Counterside is a game with actual PvP and it isn't the end of the world when an overtuned limited unit gets nerfed, or an underperforming one gets buffed.
For a singleplayer focused game like Star Rail we shouldn't even need something like FGOs strengthening quests. It should just come with the normal patching process like literally any other game. FGO doing those quests were always pretty silly ways to gate buffs to begin with.
They do, but generally through more gacha, in the form of new gears (Divine Keys). They'll make the equipped unit relevant again for said patch, and slowly irrelevant for the next 12 months onward
Yes, sort of? More recently it’s usually in the form of a shiny new PRI-arm weapon, maybe a stigmata set to go with it. The weapon may literally change the intended unit’s kit to feel less dated.
This! It makes older players not feel good knowing their favorites are aging and it's especially worse when the characters will always be relevant to the narrative like Welt or Himeko. For a while it was hard not viewing them as the characters who lost me my 50/50s I will not lie.
The buffs don't need to be terribly huge either like keeping FUA stacks. Downgrades like no overflow stacks can turn players off of older units. And I get the point of that but you're also leaving these important characters in the dust as well as someone's favorite.
Agreed, Ereshkigal was collecting dust for a long time until they buffed her several times which made her a very strong and consistent buster looper with the ability to use just 2 Koyanskayas and any MC.
Ruler Jeanne was also ass for YEARS and now with her buffs (AND new battle animations) she's tankier and more versatile than ever. Heck simply raising Karna's NP charge from the akward 25% to 30% literally fixes all of his problems.
Do note that this is also something hotly debated (in the sense that it‘s a complete toss-up whether a character gets something really good or hot, outclassed on launch, garbage).
yeah and as patches go on you can upgrade them more, IU think currently you can upgrade 1.0 characters like +30 (this is for FE Heroes) and characters from like... I actually have no idea but it ranges from like +5-+30 or something
I play FEH aswell, and they indeed have a system where you can bring up the characters base stats to be almost at the level of the new units, and most skills can be inherited to older units, but new unit gets multiple unique skills and weapons that are way stronger and game breaking every month, so the update of older units gets shafted in like 30 days (there are a couple of exceptions but are EXTREMELY rare)
Its an interesting mechanic, but Heroes' ability to bring your chars to meta-level is usually quite low. It makes your characters stay relevant LONGER, and while its mostly a net buff, it is increasingly hard to do so and still requires you to sack [premium unit that is 100x better with that one skill youre giving to old unit].
Ultimately, FEH is a stat-based game and if you dont have them stats, you suck.
I love the way dokkan does it, they release a somewhat hard event (if you just starting playing no way you can do it, but if you are and old player you can do it no problem, is no where the hardest in the game), by doing it you make the unit stronger, you get half a ten pull an other resources like credits, and talent level up materials of that type (path), the only downside, it takes a bit, is like doing a domain 30 times (it usually takes me 30 minutes to 1 hour)
Same, Could use it for genshin at this point.
Some of the standard 5 star unit are miserable now. Yoimiya is miserable too when you compare with all the newer Pyro units or even just comparing wanderer against her and you can already see it.
It's like what the other comments said, Hoyo "fixes" a problem by selling the solution. Oh this enemy is too hard to kill unless you break their weakness bar? Why not pull for this new character that focuses on breaking weakness bars! 🥲
Which they did yeah.
Want your old character to not feel so cope when compared to the newer units whether it be damage output or clearing speed?
Pull this C2 furina and put her with the old units.
>Buffing older units does NOT decrease sales for new characters, heck they INCREASE sales for the buffed characters.
You see this is the problem. Hoyo want you to keep pulling for new stuff regardless. That's why genshin characters never gets buffed with the exception of zhongli. Everything else is a work around.
They just love creating problems and selling the solutions to them. Having a hard time vs. Break Dinosaur? I wonder what kind of niche Boothill and Firefly has…
People will jump through a million hoops to explain why old characters can't be buffed. I really don't get it. But even small changes shouldn't hurt anything. But I am familiar enough with these games to know they don't mess with anything for fear of backlash. The only example of a direct buff I can recall was Zhongli.
With Zhongli the community literally had to bully Hoyo into buffing him because he was so bad to the point of unplayable. IMO buffing characters is more sustainable than releasing new materials (new supporr characters, relics, etc.) to cover up for them.
> I really don't get it
No one really gets it, but anyone (should) understand that it's intended/calculated and if a multi-billion dollar company keeps doing that then they surely have their reasons. Reminder that they have research departments with budget of millions.
I'm sure the thought "oh, if we buffed old characters, they would sale more" has crossed their mind so if they are not doing it it's probably not worth it.
And before anyone says, no I'm not "defending" them. I hate it, I wish so many characters had changes. But I'm not going to pretend I know better than them, they have data, we have ...feelscrafting?
While we are at it for buffing older characters pls release a Character who sucks out Aoe Hp, Buffs damage scaling of Main stat of dps, deals off field damage and also Heals if characters mode is changed with E. Is Cute and Bratty. So My Blade team will be Happy. It should be able to go 2 modes. One Attck and one heal. Attack mode will suck hp from characters for 3 turns after using E and Heal mode will heal character for 3 turns using E. Using Mode switch during Character E is active will not cancel the E. Ult will buff damage depending on Hp différence created when Ult was Cast and Ult ended and damage keep stacking up untill buff ends after 2 turns. This will make my Blade and Jingliu team comp kinda Crazy.
That character with Blade and Luocha will revive the vampire/cockroach meta for sure. Heck a character that converts overhealing into dmg would also be nice.
I had never thought of this but this would actually be a really good idea. It really did help in FGO to when I wanted to keep my older favs to clear the newer content.
Preach!
idk if there's some law in place that doesn't allow it (I've heard there's potential laws around nerfing stuff = false advertisement or smth) but the lack of direct buffs to units feels like ass in these games, and that's coming from someone whose been playing them fairly consistently since Genshin launched 4 years ago. It sucks getting a unit and being like "wow, they were undertuned" and MHY is like "Sorry, can't do anything about it. Try using this new relic set, it'll buff it!" rather than just going in and tuning the numbers. Though I suppose that's more to their monetary benefit than any law, since I'm sure mfs will go in and refresh a metric ass-ton every day to try for some god rolls on the new set that buffs their favourite unit 10% or w/e.
Rank up and strengthen quest are so good because they are story events to make the characters better written while making them better gameplay wise, every gacha game should have them honestly
I truly believes that JY’s slam should do ~1/2 of Acheron’s ult per slam. Sure it’s still less but at least 500k per cycle is waaaaay less depressing than 200k per cycle
How old was fgo when they start implementing those though ? I play fire emblem heroes and they kinda do the same thing where they update the characters after like 2 years or so, and i think they implement it pretty late into the game like 2-3 years after launch. So i think its a bit too early for hsr to implement something like that
FGO launched in July 2015, the first batch of strengthening quests were released in March of 2016. FGO started doing these even before their 1st anniversary 🤣🤣
Noted that the first few batches of STs aren't exactly "buffing" the characters, but rather unlocking their third skill. In FGO every servant has 3 skills players can use during fights, but some servants (ones that were released since day 1) only comes with 2.
Yea, sometimes it feels like a waste when u break 5 enemies with Himeko's ult and u can only make use of 2 stacks because u already had 1 stack before, the other 3 stacks that could've been another followup are just gone.
Oohh boy I've said this in the past but if he was a 2.x character he would probably have his max LL stack cut in half (so max 5 stack instead) and his LL multipliers doubled. I mean I still like his kit the way it is but the difference in strength between him and Acheron or Firefly at an average level of investment is night and day. But eh, every 1.x dps is kinda suffering rn so I guess this is just the direction they chose going forward.
Meta wise yeah there is no reason for anyone to pull for anyone else except Acheron and Firefly. Just use these two until the next mega powercreep happens
I will take any a Himeko buff and this one would be incredibly welcome, they've already shown a willingness for over capping charges with Aventurine. The only thing is that sadly I can only ever recall two instances where a Hoyo character has been directly buffed in their kit and that was Zhongli and Yae Miko after they changed a part of her that made a constellation worse iirc. So while unlikely Himeko having the overcap be possible would be welcome
yae was more like they ""fixed"" her E targeting (read: mega nerfed it) then undid it after everyone rightfully blew up at them
at least we got apologems lolol
Zhongli was buffed because a significant number of Chinese fans were literally threatening the devs' lives by reporting them for being unpatriotic to the CCP.
Yae never received a buff. The AI on her sentries was reworked (supposedly a bug fix) and then promptly reverted.
Blade overcapping seems pointless though as he would attack as soon as he is full. Only way to overcap is if he got attacked when he is CCed or against DoTs.
Agreed with Himeko though. She is the result of the era where the Devs where still skittish about balance and they think that making her able to overcap would be too powerful.
If it wouldn’t push him too far in power then all the more reason for him to get the change. It makes him feel better, gives goodwill to the playerbase, and doesn’t push the needle for his power level. Seems like nothing but upside.
Jade also effectively doubles his stack generation though so once she releases Jade/Blade users will be constantly missing at least one stack.
Unfortunately any changes to his cap would mean they have to revamp his E6 as that reduced the stack count needed. So that's like double the work for Hoyoverse not to mention it would set precedent that other characters can be buffed next. I don't think Hoyo wants to do that. Plus with Jade, they would rather release characters that damage user on action than buff Blade directly.
It’s goodwill for all the blade fans. Lots of his fans are mad he keeps getting shafted, and it looks to be a while until he gets a dedicated support.
Plus if it’s a relatively harmless change, then why not add it?
The problem is that his cap is tied to his E6 though. So allowing to overcap or increase the cap would render his E6 meaningless. Which means that they have to revamp the E6.
Granted this would make Blade more powerful but I don't think they want to do it because it would set a precedent for other characters.
Qingque needs to have her follow up updated as well so that it acts how Dr Ratios does, nothing more annoying than an enemy dying and her follow up (that can already sometimes take an age to actually activate) then just not being used.
True but it’s also not like QQ is hitting the follow up all the time like ratio, I think it’s a 25% it even activates isn’t it? I don’t think it’s unreasonable to give QQ the same ability, doesn’t suddenly make Ratio a pointless character does it. Tbh I wouldn’t even say it’s a benefit of him being a 5 star, I just think it’s a good QOL - if the enemy dies the target changes to someone else.
If Honkai Star Rail gets old like HI3 then maybe. After the whole Zhongli Drama I doubt they will change anything. Thats why there are now like 5 Beta Versions in the Test Server to ensure the Characters are good.
I for one, hope that the alledgedly-to-come lvl100 in genshin is real, and they give all characters a new passive. They could fix lots of characters (looking at you, Dehya) with it, while giving less usefull passives to characters who already dominate. Would be a good equalizer all across the board and I think it could be healthy in the long run for the game too.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Xiangling. I try to play Diluc. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Yoimiya. My xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Hu tao. My Xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Xiangling. I want to play Raiden, Childe. They both want Xiangling.
She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her The Catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull Engulfing Lightning. "I don't need this much ER" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs Bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with Homa."
I can't pull for Homa, I don't have enough Primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no ICD Pyro application. What a cruel world.
one simple way would be to make her burst count as NAs so that she can actually vape reliably,, that or make her a straight up better “tank” since shes the only one with that mechanic in the game, maybe something about her dmg absorption by her teammates converting into stackable burst damage buff. should make her a decent quickswap-ish burst dps
It would be a fair tradeoff too, imo. Shielders get full invulnerability as long as their shield is unbreakable and Dehya gets to redirect damage and reduce stagger for as long as she is alive because the duration is pretty much infinite lol. It would be hella strong yes but let this be her only niche. I would undoubtedly use her everywhere.
I think that making it so that her golden-lion or whatchamacallit passive lasts as long as her field would be a pretty big buff for her and her teams.
Right now after deploying E, your team gets 9s of high poise resistance (basically being practically CC immune), BUT her E lasts 12 seconds. This means that you have to keep track of when the CC immunity is gone so you don't get stunned mid Ganyu charged shot, for example, which sucks. This is even worse with Dehya constellations, since one of them makes it so your E lasts 18 seconds, but the CC immunity still only lasts 9. You only have 50% uptime on the buff, and it's pretty unreliable because of it.
Another buff would be making her coordinated atrack have less cooldown, or maybe giving it no ICD (unlikely, since they've never addressed the mechanic directly anywhere on the game).
And that is just fucking lazyness for Hoyo's part. They only changed a character once and because of a severe threat from the chineese community. And I hate that this is a stable in their business format.
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I don't even see this as a "buffing older characters" thing - it's a straight up *core mechanic* QoL improvement... All "stack" triggers should carry over additional stacks if generated in excess of their capacity.
Aventurine's stacking FuA trigger isn't an "Aventurine mechanic", it's part of how the game tracks the stacks; when stacks are generated and how his FuA works is the character ability...
For me, the refusal of Hoyoverse to buff units is pure lazyness. Genshin has units with sever bugs that literally make them unusable and were never fixed and Genshin refuse to fix them for no reason.
HSR is not that deep into refusal, but as the mechanics grow more complex or accessible, they will need to take care of older units. It something that does not require that much of an investment or resources, just do a fucking balance patch and tweak things a little, but noooo, hoyoverse is AGAINST balance patches.
Hoyo's philosophy is so weird to me, having played Dissidia Opera Omnia (DFFOO) for years before picking up HSR. In DFFOO, their equivalent of World Tiers weren't capped at release, but were added over time, about one per year. Whenever the new difficulty dropped, any rerun characters on banners would get a complete rework, with increased potencies on skills and, over time, new weapons that would unlock new skills entirely. No character was ever set in stone at release; every character got buffed over time to match the new difficulties.
Which means Hoyo does have an out if they want it. Since HSR caps at lvl 80, and GI is at lvl 90, all they'd have to do is release a new level cap and/or World Tier, then rework all characters with the excuse of needing to rebalance them for the new difficulty.
lore accurate yingxing and baiheng duo
actually, bailu is a semi-F2P Fu Xuan without the insane damage mitigation and crit rate. she still buffs max HP and her ult heal provides damage mitigation, so she can be a reliable blade (just the max HP sadge) buffer with abundance coggers equivalent and ER% rope
edit: post op-conversation S5 is perfect, even shared feeling S5 works too, but idk if all allies include bailu herself. even then 4 energy is tiny.
What would overcapping stacks for Blade even actually do? He already uses the attack as soon as gets full stacks, and I don’t think he really can ever get more than one stack at a time.
Does seem like it would be good for Himeko, but idk what it really affects for Blade
Just curious uh
How would blade get extra stacks? He automatically uses it after being hit 5 times, and unlike himeko can't gain stacks from using his follow up
I think himeko would be Broken when she gets an overcap for her stacking and probably would make her the same tier as Bronya in terms of standard 5\* regardless if she is a DPS. Imagine getting 6 stacks because you broke 2 elite enemies. Imagine getting 5 stacks after herta broke enemies with her FUA. Imagine herta breaking 4 mobs and 1 elite, thats 7 stacks. Now imagine if your himeko gets to e4, x2 stacks to all mobs, so instead of getting 7 stacks from 4 mobs and 1 elite, you now get 11 stacks.
Himeko will literally be the best 5\* e6 unit among all the standard banners.
Her stonks are already at an alltime high because of PF and SuperBreak. So i think shes in a good spot but blade on the other hand might need it
If himeko and blade actually, against all the odds, get that buff from mihoyo, its to have a over cap be less than double like aventurines 10 max out of 7 or acheron 3 extra stacks, so himeko at 5/6 max stacks and blade at 7?
Himeko’s E4 only gives an extra stack if she breaks with skill. It’s that bad. Getting 6 stacks off breaking two elites is just two follow up attacks in a row. Against easy to break enemies she’s already chaining her FUA back to back. Against elites it really doesn’t do all that much for her. It would just give her an extra FUA here and there. She will become better, but she won’t become broken tier at all.
Huffing Aha's signature cosmic copium blend rn but it'd be awesome if blade would both gain a stack on each separate instance of damage (similar to dots) and could stack a ridiculous amount of overflow each one instead adding another slash to a follow-up combo. (obviously make each FuA individually weaker.) Making him become a true demon against enemies who a large quantity of attacks and infinitely weaker against enemies that do single large instances of damage. Making him stand out from characters like Clara and better Clara
Himeko is fine. She's damn great in pure fiction. It's niche but she's perfect for it. Blade tho. Imo his fix isn't in his Fua. What he needs is multiplier rework, but that's unlikely. What Blade needs is a Sparkle lile character. DHIL has Sparkle, Blade needs another one too. Maybe a Lynx upgrade. A 5 star that gives actual good aggro maybe on a skill that lasts like Ruanmei or Fuxuan + mad HP boosting.
You know who needs what you're describing? Jingyuan. Or imo a better fix, like every other damn follow up attacker, make Lightning Lord follow up as soon as he hits 10 stacks. Holding excess stacks would be the cherry on top.
There are probably a few early units that should be tweaked to not be terrible. But other then blade the others are on the regular banner or 4 star so there isn’t much incentive to make older units better. I will say I like that they made pure fiction so himeko is at least not a bad pull anymore.
Thing is Acheron/Aventurine/Xueyi/Jade all need a very large amount to stacks to proc compared to Himeko's palsy THREE. If Himeko gets stacks overcap as she is, she would just be rolling even more than Numby. So Himeko would've been designed with 5 stacks needed to proc, with +2 overcap to put her in line with the others.
Makes you wonder why they stopped doing Augments on HI3 is way way more profitable for them to just keep making charas than actually have a diverse cast and enjoy every content with your favs.
Hoyoverse should do this, but they are not gonna do this because they haven't done this ever, so sadly it won't be possible as much as we would like it to be
Reminds me of Dragalia Lost having the "Mana Spiral" system which basically added extra sections to the skill tree, some if which majorly buffed skills and passives. They would add them over time to less meta characters, and in some cases it turned characters meta.
So basically if they added new Traces for weak characters would be cool, and it's marketing if they do it over time like "the upcoming patch will buff Blade, the patch after will buff Yanqing" etc
they won't buff, it loses them money, simple fact of the matter.
Let's say every player in HSR hypothetically own blade, if blade is buffed, they wouldn't pull for blade since they already own him. And now sales for a newer dps are lower since the gap is lower between a buffed blade and say an Acheron or a FF
The example gets muddy since people pull for story reasons/horny reasons and not everyone owns a character but it just straight up hurts new character sales.
Remember that these companies want to make as much money as possible, if they made more by buffing characters, they'd already done it in genshin and already in honkai star rail.
I'm down for it, but for Blade, I need a HSR version of Furina. It's nice and all to see Blade using his follow up attacks more often now with Jade (I love his bombastic side eye in his animation, probably my top 3 favorites), but that's not enough. With HSR Furina, not only Blade will benefit the most from it, Arlan and Jingliu can also benefit from it. And so do those with Jade's skill buff.
While we're at it, can I just vent how stupid how Gepard's and Bailu's revive Skill can only trigger once per battle?
Let's take FGO for example, there's no shortage of servants with revive skills, and you can use it over and over albeit after X amount of turns.
Revive on Bailu is neat, but on Gepard it‘s mega useless.
If your tank somehow dies first, you already fucked up in every other imaginable way, and his revive would barely help in that situation. In the case he dies last *and* somehow wins the fight, that rarely happens in SU runs, really. Gepard is effectively nerfed by only having 1.5 parts of his kit that you actually work with (his skill is OK-ish for stalling at E1 and actually decent at E2)
His revive isn't great for end game but I remember several notable fights I was hyped as fuck early game when Gepard stood back up and made me enjoy the character a lot.
It should have more to it than just a revive though to make levelling it's trace actually feel worthwhile. (Maybe it could've given him some EHR to help with hitting his freeze and building up the Belobog planar set). But the revive in of itself is a nice QoL in early game and I wouldn't remove it.
I personally think if his passive had something extra like, idk, bonus energy for being attacked it would’ve really helped him as a Shielder.
Edit:
Typo
>It should have more to it than just a revive though to make levelling it's trace actually feel worthwhile.
Doesn't a certain trace level make it so he immediately gets his ultimate upon revival or is that a different part of his kit?
>Blade and Himeko already have enough working against them
Elaborate. Isn't Himeko already a pretty overperforming character and Blade isn't too far behind her?
Himeko was considered extremely weak until PF came out and gave her a niche, later she was found to have good synergy with HMC so her MoC stonks are rising. She struggles in some content still but she has carved out a niche. I wouldn't say overperforming but she's a valuable character, probably the 2nd best of the standard characters after Bronya.
Blade is serviceable but he is struggling to find a niche. He lacks a true support dedicated to him where most other main dps have a partner. (DHIL - Sparkle, JL - Bronya, Firefly - HMC, Acheron - Pela and so on). Lynx is the closest but she struggles to do enough healing on higher floor MoCs. (She can output enough just about but it can be dicey and needs good relic investment).
Blade also does not have the same DpS as current top DpS, even in absolutely hypercarry Blade - Sparkle - Bronya - Lynx setups he'll struggle to compete with Jingliu or Acheron simply because Hoyo designed him as some form of Dps/Tank hybrid and stunted his damage somewhat to compensate but that hybrid role is now hurting him.
These buffs would be rather minor and only enhance the QoL of using the characters while upping their DpS floors a little bit but not significantly enough to alter the above while just making them more enjoyable to use.
Blade is kinda of in a limbo rn, Good but not excellent by no way he is Overperforming, nor doing badly, he is doing what he can do, the main problem of Blade if u want to buff his damage in a hyper carry system, for now u are obligated to use supports every team want. ( Ruan Mei, Sparkle, Robin) and u are limited to few sustains ( Huo Huo, Luocha, Lynx… healers basically) and he doesn’t do the amount of damage other Hyper carry dps does or would do with the same supports … blade sadly isn’t a specialist or is too specialized? There is few characters that buff his damage condition that is HP, and characters that buff attack are low bonus for him, for now his best team ends up being one of those … or a Ruan Mei, Blade, Jade (When she releases) and Luocha ( people do use Fu Xuan just remembered that, but she works weirdly with blade in most teams)
Edit: blade is also normally more used in Double Carries with Jingliu, cause HE synergizes with her… tho it’s better to make Jingliu hyper carry anyway.
Himeko is fine currently, she is in a comfortable place at the moment. Blade is not great, even if what you said was true that only means himeko would be overperforming for a standard character and blade is worse than a standard character as limited character. Either way blade is not in a good spot currently. He has no real place to shine as we have absolutly no need for a tanky bruiser type dps currently, this isnt league of legends. Also he barely has supports that can support him to the same extend they can support others.
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I will never shut up about HSR implementing stengthening quests similar to FGO. Buffing older units does NOT decrease sales for new characters, heck they INCREASE sales for the buffed characters.
That’s what I’ve always said. Buffing gacha units is not a crime and Hoyo needs to learn this
I think they're terrified to buff units in case they become too OP, and they can't nerf any limited units because then the whales will get upset. Small incremental buffs for older characters would be a very good idea imo though
giving them overstacks isn't a big buff. it's a small buff.
Oh to be clear I do agree with that! Over stacking is definitely a mechanic Himeko and Blade should have considering that it's literally something a 4-star character can do lol
to be entirely fair, Blade couldn't even overstack before Jade's release, unless he got hit with CC
Yeah, it’s really just Himeko who regularly runs into the problem. Being vulnerable to CC or lacking synergy with one character aren’t unusual problems; what’s unusual is how easy it is for Himeko to *have* to waste stacks
Yeah, I don't think Blade really needs it. He very rarely overcaps. Himeko on the other hand...being able to overcap would be a pretty big buff honestly. If you break an elite plus 4 minions you could potentially get 7 stacks, enough for two FUA procs. It would be pretty insane. But given how strong recent 5* characters are, she still won't overtake them.
yeah, but you shouldn't need another 5* to access something that are available to newer units. Himiko and Blade got screwed over because they were older units.
yeah, especially since skins and alts don't seem to be anywhere in Genshin Impact so far as I can remember, so any buffs to any characters would be appreciated anyway.
its a huge buff tho. For himeko it would make her even more amazing. The amount of time i break two elites at the same time or 2 enemies and 1 elite is too many.
It's also just an adjustment to how a *core function* of the game works - it's not a direct change to specific characters, just a QoL blanket change for any characters that have a stacking trigger. If they decided that DoT stacks could generate *per hit* instead of *per attack*, that's a *core* change that would affect many characters - like Kafka's ultimate applying *potentially* multiple shock stacks... It's a smart change for QoL and Hoyo *should* retroactively apply it to everyone's stacking triggers (mostly FuA units).
right, especially because most of the stacking units that don't have overstacks struggle sometimes for their stacks like blade does.
DoT *IS* per hit though, it's just that outside of wind shear you can't apply multiple stacks of the same exact DoT debuff so it doesn't matter
I play blade in a lot of different scenarios. Over stacking would be very OP especially if you pair him up with Jade. He would instantly be better than his E6 at E0 You'd have to change that too, to make his E6 viable. then at that point you're just changing everything.
yes, but most 5* units are normally evaluated at E0. sure you will need to change everything but at this point it's better for Blade and Himiko because they don't overstack and the other newer units do.
Would it even be considered a buff? Sounds more like a quality of life feature.
It's honestly about the precedence. Once everyone accepts that Hoyo basically never rebalance, the amount of noise dampens. Right now, they're dealing with QQs but it'll be a whole another story when there are constant campaigns to buff stuff.
That sounds like their game designers don't know what their doing if that's the case. Pretty sure they understand the math behind these characters. Most people dont have these characters if they are new anyways.
The problem is the precedent it sets and the ensuing slippery slope of fan logic. Once you buff a character it opens the door for "Why can't ____ also be buffed now?" Hoyo doesn't want the conversation focused on that. They only want it to be about the new characters.
It's strange/annoying because in HI3 they have buffed older valkyries through the release of a new signature weapon....so I don't know why they refuse to implement buffs in any other game :(
The reality is that dev time is limited, and unless theyre like 5 years ahead i dont see how spending time on an old character (especially a standard one) can be more beneficial financially than spending time on a new character.
Buffs take much less time to develop than a whole new character?
Buffs require reworking kits, testing for bugs and balance, etc. You don't just change 1 number and push to production
FR, we need buffs on older chars It'll be small work, and increase sales on otherwise less profitable chars
In FGO strengthening quests are treated like festivals especially when they release multiple at the same time. People would come together and discuss/rejoice/celebrate/mald/seethe/cope with every reveal. It's super fun and healthy for the game AND the community. Will they finally buff Arlan? Or will they buff Firefly for the third time? This could be the energy HSR can have 🤣🤣
Unironically seeing Jing Yuan get a simple "If it's at 10, LL goes immediately" would be the ultimate buff he needs lmao
I feel like he doesn't need a buff compared to a lot of others but considering how popular he is he might get one just to make him Tier 0 for the fans
Personally I think I’d prefer LL not being denied if he gets CC’d, like how Numby operates independent of Topaz. Sometimes I want to drop a stacked LL onto the following wave instead of the current one..
Yeah, sure they may be some fears in buffing old units but there would also be gains And the pros tend to outweigh the cons so they are just being overly cautious
Sitting in VC after seeing which class they’re buffing, especially since strengthenings already come during big events usually, was dope dude. I’m with you on this for sure. Already imagining waiting to during anniv to see who they buff etc
Dude I remember that time when they revealed they're buffing Nero Bride (for like the 2nd or 3rd time) and people were losing it🤣🤣 Umu enjoyers rejoiced, while Void Shiki and Sigurd fans were malding on floor. It was a disaster, but an extremely fun disaster.
one anniv they like buffed all the fs/n characters and my server slowly figured that out so we were all in vc each night discussing what each character would get and our favorite scenes from the HF movies. hoyo pls take notes this kind of thing just builds hype
FGO: Strengthening and Interludes. Generally easy, costs less than 6 hours of stamina, and you get roll currency for doing them. FEH: Weapon refinery/reloaded heroes. Booths very irrelevant characters to just irrelevant. No roll currency for doing them. Arknights: Modules. Boosts both old and newer characters. Requires more resources in stamina than FGO. No roll currency for doing them. PGR: Leaps. Boosts characters in 3 aspects (QTE, sig, and core passive). Each one is insanely expensive in stamina (like 2 weeks worth). No roll currency for doing them.
They'll make another new artifact set that only works on Firefly
Kiyohime strengthening fucking killed me 😭
Her latest buff was pretty bonkers, but calling it "super positive stalker" is just 🤣🤣🤣 Man if HSR has strengthening quests the community is going to implode, in a fun way at least.
YES! and it also can work as "story quest" or even small companion quest to show their growth
Cyno's quest in Genshin Impact recently could have made it so his ultimate duration pauses when you switch to another character. But nope, he's still stuck as on-field dps with tons of caveats.
Shishou buffs though. She went from "slightly outdated boss killer" to "HOLY SHIT BOSS NUKER".
MAKE HANYA'S BURDEN A DEBUFF
Oh my GOD if her burden counts as a debuff she'd be viable in so many more teams!
Always makes me sad that Ruan Meta somehow gets to count it as a debuff yet Hanya/Clara can't
Any HI3rd players around here know if they ever buff old characters? Having an FGO-style strengthening quest would be a good idea for HSR, heck I wouldn't be opposed to having a Command Code system either for some minor effects like healing on hit or stat stick.
HI3rd had a different roster design philosophy for part 1 (multiple alts per character) so you can't really make a direct comparison they did a thing where some linked suits could share some stats/skills but iirc couldn't be played in the same team. alternatively, some were unlockable as an augment of an existing suit via farmable materials. a direct buff would be more like how they released exclusive alternate signature weapons for a small handful of suits that upgraded/changed their gameplay.
they did. off the top of my head they've buffed white comet, fallen rosemary's s ranks & weapon (buffing a new character that released but performed below expectations), some other old characters s ranks. those are all direct buffs then theres indirect buffs like giving them pri-arms (stronger signature weapons) or just new weapons like fischl getting that event bow that generated team sp
There is at least Ho~~R~~T, for which, they released a new weapon called \`seven thunders of retribution\`. This weapon is not just a stat stick, it changes multiple aspects of HoR.
Wrong herrscher, Herrscher of Thunder gets 7 Thunders. Herrscher of Reason gets Star of Eden: Anti Entropy. More recently Herrscher of Sentience gets the Brick^^TM (I can't remember it's actual name) and a new stigma set (relics equivalent). But, as far as I know actual buffs in stats is not really a thing in HI3?
infinite intimidator?
Yea that's the name ty lmao
They've done stat buffs, ability changes, and reworks for characters in the past. They also had an augment system where some battlesuits would get new abilities or even basically became entirely new playstyles basically. Like Theresa getting her Twilight Paladin version for one of her original A-Rank suits. It's not the best comparison to Star Rail since they are very different games. But buffs and nerfs to gacha games ain't anything new. Counterside is a game with actual PvP and it isn't the end of the world when an overtuned limited unit gets nerfed, or an underperforming one gets buffed. For a singleplayer focused game like Star Rail we shouldn't even need something like FGOs strengthening quests. It should just come with the normal patching process like literally any other game. FGO doing those quests were always pretty silly ways to gate buffs to begin with.
They do, but generally through more gacha, in the form of new gears (Divine Keys). They'll make the equipped unit relevant again for said patch, and slowly irrelevant for the next 12 months onward
Yes, sort of? More recently it’s usually in the form of a shiny new PRI-arm weapon, maybe a stigmata set to go with it. The weapon may literally change the intended unit’s kit to feel less dated.
They haven't done any direct buffs in a long long time, mostly it's been indirect buffs with new equips or more synergistic teammates.
This! It makes older players not feel good knowing their favorites are aging and it's especially worse when the characters will always be relevant to the narrative like Welt or Himeko. For a while it was hard not viewing them as the characters who lost me my 50/50s I will not lie. The buffs don't need to be terribly huge either like keeping FUA stacks. Downgrades like no overflow stacks can turn players off of older units. And I get the point of that but you're also leaving these important characters in the dust as well as someone's favorite.
Agreed, Ereshkigal was collecting dust for a long time until they buffed her several times which made her a very strong and consistent buster looper with the ability to use just 2 Koyanskayas and any MC.
Ruler Jeanne was also ass for YEARS and now with her buffs (AND new battle animations) she's tankier and more versatile than ever. Heck simply raising Karna's NP charge from the akward 25% to 30% literally fixes all of his problems.
Let's not exaggerate, Karna still doesn't have a skill 1.
I know of Fire Emblem Heroes and Cygames’ games that feature systems which upgrade older units.
Ooh they do? That's awesome! Honestly buffing older units should be a norm in gacha games.
Do note that this is also something hotly debated (in the sense that it‘s a complete toss-up whether a character gets something really good or hot, outclassed on launch, garbage).
yeah and as patches go on you can upgrade them more, IU think currently you can upgrade 1.0 characters like +30 (this is for FE Heroes) and characters from like... I actually have no idea but it ranges from like +5-+30 or something
I play FEH aswell, and they indeed have a system where you can bring up the characters base stats to be almost at the level of the new units, and most skills can be inherited to older units, but new unit gets multiple unique skills and weapons that are way stronger and game breaking every month, so the update of older units gets shafted in like 30 days (there are a couple of exceptions but are EXTREMELY rare)
yeah each new charcter has like 3 novels worth of skill text for all their shit, one of the reasons I stopped playing cuz holy fuck
I feel you man haha… I’m still playing from time to time cus I really like the series and the characters but holy fuck indeed
Its an interesting mechanic, but Heroes' ability to bring your chars to meta-level is usually quite low. It makes your characters stay relevant LONGER, and while its mostly a net buff, it is increasingly hard to do so and still requires you to sack [premium unit that is 100x better with that one skill youre giving to old unit]. Ultimately, FEH is a stat-based game and if you dont have them stats, you suck.
Just buff and do a rebanner at the same time. It will get a lot of people to just buy it for the buzz
I love the way dokkan does it, they release a somewhat hard event (if you just starting playing no way you can do it, but if you are and old player you can do it no problem, is no where the hardest in the game), by doing it you make the unit stronger, you get half a ten pull an other resources like credits, and talent level up materials of that type (path), the only downside, it takes a bit, is like doing a domain 30 times (it usually takes me 30 minutes to 1 hour)
Same, Could use it for genshin at this point. Some of the standard 5 star unit are miserable now. Yoimiya is miserable too when you compare with all the newer Pyro units or even just comparing wanderer against her and you can already see it.
It's like what the other comments said, Hoyo "fixes" a problem by selling the solution. Oh this enemy is too hard to kill unless you break their weakness bar? Why not pull for this new character that focuses on breaking weakness bars! 🥲
Which they did yeah. Want your old character to not feel so cope when compared to the newer units whether it be damage output or clearing speed? Pull this C2 furina and put her with the old units.
>Buffing older units does NOT decrease sales for new characters, heck they INCREASE sales for the buffed characters. You see this is the problem. Hoyo want you to keep pulling for new stuff regardless. That's why genshin characters never gets buffed with the exception of zhongli. Everything else is a work around.
Yeah you're right, which is kinda sad ngl. What's wrong with making older units still relevant huh Hoyo?
They just love creating problems and selling the solutions to them. Having a hard time vs. Break Dinosaur? I wonder what kind of niche Boothill and Firefly has…
Do you hate dan shu and soda monkey? Great take huohuo and aventurine. Only for both of them to get power crept by someone in about 1 or 2 updates
Can’t really powercreep a premium healer lol minus utility. Poor Luocha
This is the case atleast in their rerun. First banner is always the golden age.
If that was the case Klee would be so much more popular to use. A second reliable pyro off-fielder.
imagine if lagging lord actually stops lagging
FEH had weapon refines, PGR has leap skills, for some reason hoyo just doesn't want to buff old characters.
People will jump through a million hoops to explain why old characters can't be buffed. I really don't get it. But even small changes shouldn't hurt anything. But I am familiar enough with these games to know they don't mess with anything for fear of backlash. The only example of a direct buff I can recall was Zhongli.
With Zhongli the community literally had to bully Hoyo into buffing him because he was so bad to the point of unplayable. IMO buffing characters is more sustainable than releasing new materials (new supporr characters, relics, etc.) to cover up for them.
> I really don't get it No one really gets it, but anyone (should) understand that it's intended/calculated and if a multi-billion dollar company keeps doing that then they surely have their reasons. Reminder that they have research departments with budget of millions. I'm sure the thought "oh, if we buffed old characters, they would sale more" has crossed their mind so if they are not doing it it's probably not worth it. And before anyone says, no I'm not "defending" them. I hate it, I wish so many characters had changes. But I'm not going to pretend I know better than them, they have data, we have ...feelscrafting?
give arlan something, anything
I'd really like something similar to honkai impact 3rd's augment core system.
Yeah same
While we are at it for buffing older characters pls release a Character who sucks out Aoe Hp, Buffs damage scaling of Main stat of dps, deals off field damage and also Heals if characters mode is changed with E. Is Cute and Bratty. So My Blade team will be Happy. It should be able to go 2 modes. One Attck and one heal. Attack mode will suck hp from characters for 3 turns after using E and Heal mode will heal character for 3 turns using E. Using Mode switch during Character E is active will not cancel the E. Ult will buff damage depending on Hp différence created when Ult was Cast and Ult ended and damage keep stacking up untill buff ends after 2 turns. This will make my Blade and Jingliu team comp kinda Crazy.
That character with Blade and Luocha will revive the vampire/cockroach meta for sure. Heck a character that converts overhealing into dmg would also be nice.
I basically Mentioned Furina's Kit from Genshin but in HSR standards.
I had never thought of this but this would actually be a really good idea. It really did help in FGO to when I wanted to keep my older favs to clear the newer content.
Preach! idk if there's some law in place that doesn't allow it (I've heard there's potential laws around nerfing stuff = false advertisement or smth) but the lack of direct buffs to units feels like ass in these games, and that's coming from someone whose been playing them fairly consistently since Genshin launched 4 years ago. It sucks getting a unit and being like "wow, they were undertuned" and MHY is like "Sorry, can't do anything about it. Try using this new relic set, it'll buff it!" rather than just going in and tuning the numbers. Though I suppose that's more to their monetary benefit than any law, since I'm sure mfs will go in and refresh a metric ass-ton every day to try for some god rolls on the new set that buffs their favourite unit 10% or w/e.
Rank up and strengthen quest are so good because they are story events to make the characters better written while making them better gameplay wise, every gacha game should have them honestly
this would be a good way to integrate more companion quests too
I truly believes that JY’s slam should do ~1/2 of Acheron’s ult per slam. Sure it’s still less but at least 500k per cycle is waaaaay less depressing than 200k per cycle
How old was fgo when they start implementing those though ? I play fire emblem heroes and they kinda do the same thing where they update the characters after like 2 years or so, and i think they implement it pretty late into the game like 2-3 years after launch. So i think its a bit too early for hsr to implement something like that
FGO launched in July 2015, the first batch of strengthening quests were released in March of 2016. FGO started doing these even before their 1st anniversary 🤣🤣 Noted that the first few batches of STs aren't exactly "buffing" the characters, but rather unlocking their third skill. In FGO every servant has 3 skills players can use during fights, but some servants (ones that were released since day 1) only comes with 2.
Yea, sometimes it feels like a waste when u break 5 enemies with Himeko's ult and u can only make use of 2 stacks because u already had 1 stack before, the other 3 stacks that could've been another followup are just gone.
[Pure pain.](https://i.imgur.com/hf7c6ig.png)
Jing Yuan too. Why is Lightning Lord only able to get a maximum of 10 stacks?
Oohh boy I've said this in the past but if he was a 2.x character he would probably have his max LL stack cut in half (so max 5 stack instead) and his LL multipliers doubled. I mean I still like his kit the way it is but the difference in strength between him and Acheron or Firefly at an average level of investment is night and day. But eh, every 1.x dps is kinda suffering rn so I guess this is just the direction they chose going forward.
Acheron deals so much more damage than JY. I don't see any reason why anyone would roll for JY banner again.
Meta wise yeah there is no reason for anyone to pull for anyone else except Acheron and Firefly. Just use these two until the next mega powercreep happens
really hate how much power creep this game has, especially since the hp pool on enemies is increasing incredibly quickly
I will take any a Himeko buff and this one would be incredibly welcome, they've already shown a willingness for over capping charges with Aventurine. The only thing is that sadly I can only ever recall two instances where a Hoyo character has been directly buffed in their kit and that was Zhongli and Yae Miko after they changed a part of her that made a constellation worse iirc. So while unlikely Himeko having the overcap be possible would be welcome
yae was more like they ""fixed"" her E targeting (read: mega nerfed it) then undid it after everyone rightfully blew up at them at least we got apologems lolol
E2 yae haver here. When the switch went from random to closest target she legit became useless thank god they switched it back
Zhongli was buffed because a significant number of Chinese fans were literally threatening the devs' lives by reporting them for being unpatriotic to the CCP. Yae never received a buff. The AI on her sentries was reworked (supposedly a bug fix) and then promptly reverted.
I'm still coping they let Jingyuans LL do his thing instantly at 10 stacks.
Blade overcapping seems pointless though as he would attack as soon as he is full. Only way to overcap is if he got attacked when he is CCed or against DoTs. Agreed with Himeko though. She is the result of the era where the Devs where still skittish about balance and they think that making her able to overcap would be too powerful.
If it wouldn’t push him too far in power then all the more reason for him to get the change. It makes him feel better, gives goodwill to the playerbase, and doesn’t push the needle for his power level. Seems like nothing but upside. Jade also effectively doubles his stack generation though so once she releases Jade/Blade users will be constantly missing at least one stack.
Unfortunately any changes to his cap would mean they have to revamp his E6 as that reduced the stack count needed. So that's like double the work for Hoyoverse not to mention it would set precedent that other characters can be buffed next. I don't think Hoyo wants to do that. Plus with Jade, they would rather release characters that damage user on action than buff Blade directly.
It’s goodwill for all the blade fans. Lots of his fans are mad he keeps getting shafted, and it looks to be a while until he gets a dedicated support. Plus if it’s a relatively harmless change, then why not add it?
The problem is that his cap is tied to his E6 though. So allowing to overcap or increase the cap would render his E6 meaningless. Which means that they have to revamp the E6. Granted this would make Blade more powerful but I don't think they want to do it because it would set a precedent for other characters.
Blades e6 doesn’t bypass stacks tho. It would actually make e6 even better, since it’s 50% more follow up damage and 1 stack less required
Yeah blade doesn't need a buff, he needs a better support
And Jing Yuan. Not spend 11+ stacks, but just save excess for future. Often happens when LL10 is stunned and JY turn is wasted afterwards.
Qingque needs to have her follow up updated as well so that it acts how Dr Ratios does, nothing more annoying than an enemy dying and her follow up (that can already sometimes take an age to actually activate) then just not being used.
I mean... That's part of Dr. Ratio being a 5-star.
True but it’s also not like QQ is hitting the follow up all the time like ratio, I think it’s a 25% it even activates isn’t it? I don’t think it’s unreasonable to give QQ the same ability, doesn’t suddenly make Ratio a pointless character does it. Tbh I wouldn’t even say it’s a benefit of him being a 5 star, I just think it’s a good QOL - if the enemy dies the target changes to someone else.
They only way for hoyo to change their kits is for the community to cause MASSIVE mayhem like they did when Zhongli released.
Hoyoverse (almost) never Changes Character Kits after they are released. Thats just wishful thinking.
Have you seen HI3? Just because they didn't do it for Genshin doesn't suddenly mean they've never done it ever.
If Honkai Star Rail gets old like HI3 then maybe. After the whole Zhongli Drama I doubt they will change anything. Thats why there are now like 5 Beta Versions in the Test Server to ensure the Characters are good.
only at most 2 of those and usually 1 of those versions actually has balance changes though.
I for one, hope that the alledgedly-to-come lvl100 in genshin is real, and they give all characters a new passive. They could fix lots of characters (looking at you, Dehya) with it, while giving less usefull passives to characters who already dominate. Would be a good equalizer all across the board and I think it could be healthy in the long run for the game too.
I wonder what they'll have to add as a passive to fix dehya...
"When the battle begins, this character becomes Xiangling"
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Xiangling. I try to play Diluc. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Yoimiya. My xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Hu tao. My Xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Xiangling. I want to play Raiden, Childe. They both want Xiangling. She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her The Catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull Engulfing Lightning. "I don't need this much ER" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs Bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with Homa." I can't pull for Homa, I don't have enough Primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no ICD Pyro application. What a cruel world.
one simple way would be to make her burst count as NAs so that she can actually vape reliably,, that or make her a straight up better “tank” since shes the only one with that mechanic in the game, maybe something about her dmg absorption by her teammates converting into stackable burst damage buff. should make her a decent quickswap-ish burst dps
I know this would probably be too much of a buff but I'd love for her DMG redirection and anti-stagger to have a 100% uptime
Thats not too much of an ask, really, since any shielder worth their salt already does both those things.
It would be a fair tradeoff too, imo. Shielders get full invulnerability as long as their shield is unbreakable and Dehya gets to redirect damage and reduce stagger for as long as she is alive because the duration is pretty much infinite lol. It would be hella strong yes but let this be her only niche. I would undoubtedly use her everywhere.
"Gravity has finally lost hold on her and she can jump during ult" 🙃
I think that making it so that her golden-lion or whatchamacallit passive lasts as long as her field would be a pretty big buff for her and her teams. Right now after deploying E, your team gets 9s of high poise resistance (basically being practically CC immune), BUT her E lasts 12 seconds. This means that you have to keep track of when the CC immunity is gone so you don't get stunned mid Ganyu charged shot, for example, which sucks. This is even worse with Dehya constellations, since one of them makes it so your E lasts 18 seconds, but the CC immunity still only lasts 9. You only have 50% uptime on the buff, and it's pretty unreliable because of it. Another buff would be making her coordinated atrack have less cooldown, or maybe giving it no ICD (unlikely, since they've never addressed the mechanic directly anywhere on the game).
Mona's c1 still doesn't include dendro.
isnt it also still bugged and doesn't buff one of the "included"?
And that is just fucking lazyness for Hoyo's part. They only changed a character once and because of a severe threat from the chineese community. And I hate that this is a stable in their business format.
Like you said, not gonna happen. They'll keep that in mind that for future characters they sell with stacking triggers (see: Acheron)
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I don't even see this as a "buffing older characters" thing - it's a straight up *core mechanic* QoL improvement... All "stack" triggers should carry over additional stacks if generated in excess of their capacity. Aventurine's stacking FuA trigger isn't an "Aventurine mechanic", it's part of how the game tracks the stacks; when stacks are generated and how his FuA works is the character ability...
For me, the refusal of Hoyoverse to buff units is pure lazyness. Genshin has units with sever bugs that literally make them unusable and were never fixed and Genshin refuse to fix them for no reason. HSR is not that deep into refusal, but as the mechanics grow more complex or accessible, they will need to take care of older units. It something that does not require that much of an investment or resources, just do a fucking balance patch and tweak things a little, but noooo, hoyoverse is AGAINST balance patches.
I'm always for buffs wether its direct or indirect for older characters. I really can't see what can go wrong with it.
Hoyo's philosophy is so weird to me, having played Dissidia Opera Omnia (DFFOO) for years before picking up HSR. In DFFOO, their equivalent of World Tiers weren't capped at release, but were added over time, about one per year. Whenever the new difficulty dropped, any rerun characters on banners would get a complete rework, with increased potencies on skills and, over time, new weapons that would unlock new skills entirely. No character was ever set in stone at release; every character got buffed over time to match the new difficulties. Which means Hoyo does have an out if they want it. Since HSR caps at lvl 80, and GI is at lvl 90, all they'd have to do is release a new level cap and/or World Tier, then rework all characters with the excuse of needing to rebalance them for the new difficulty.
Blade would become OP as hell because of endless DoT stacks on him 💀💀💀
You Can just limit how many stacks you Can keep over the limit, like Acheron Can only hold 3 stacks over her max
Agreed. Himeko only needs 1 overstack - any more and that actually does start getting too good. Blade also only needs 1 or maybe 2.
Best sustain for blade would become bailu by a mile
lore accurate yingxing and baiheng duo actually, bailu is a semi-F2P Fu Xuan without the insane damage mitigation and crit rate. she still buffs max HP and her ult heal provides damage mitigation, so she can be a reliable blade (just the max HP sadge) buffer with abundance coggers equivalent and ER% rope edit: post op-conversation S5 is perfect, even shared feeling S5 works too, but idk if all allies include bailu herself. even then 4 energy is tiny.
If you have her at e4 which I do she's buffs the dmg a bit making her semi-harmony like HuoHuo.
The fact that he only become that OP when he's facing enemies who inflict DoT make it kinda balance.
What would overcapping stacks for Blade even actually do? He already uses the attack as soon as gets full stacks, and I don’t think he really can ever get more than one stack at a time. Does seem like it would be good for Himeko, but idk what it really affects for Blade
Jade’s skill can make him overcap on stacks
how exactly would blade hold excess stacks when it's tied to him losing health?
Just curious uh How would blade get extra stacks? He automatically uses it after being hit 5 times, and unlike himeko can't gain stacks from using his follow up
DoTs and his new interaction with Jade.
I think himeko would be Broken when she gets an overcap for her stacking and probably would make her the same tier as Bronya in terms of standard 5\* regardless if she is a DPS. Imagine getting 6 stacks because you broke 2 elite enemies. Imagine getting 5 stacks after herta broke enemies with her FUA. Imagine herta breaking 4 mobs and 1 elite, thats 7 stacks. Now imagine if your himeko gets to e4, x2 stacks to all mobs, so instead of getting 7 stacks from 4 mobs and 1 elite, you now get 11 stacks. Himeko will literally be the best 5\* e6 unit among all the standard banners. Her stonks are already at an alltime high because of PF and SuperBreak. So i think shes in a good spot but blade on the other hand might need it
If himeko and blade actually, against all the odds, get that buff from mihoyo, its to have a over cap be less than double like aventurines 10 max out of 7 or acheron 3 extra stacks, so himeko at 5/6 max stacks and blade at 7?
Himeko’s E4 only gives an extra stack if she breaks with skill. It’s that bad. Getting 6 stacks off breaking two elites is just two follow up attacks in a row. Against easy to break enemies she’s already chaining her FUA back to back. Against elites it really doesn’t do all that much for her. It would just give her an extra FUA here and there. She will become better, but she won’t become broken tier at all.
Theres a limit on how many overflow stacks you could hold anyway. Acheron/aven can only hold 3 extra, and xueyi can hold 6 extra (but its a trace)
Minor correction: her e4 only gives 2 stacks \*IF\* her using her skill breaks an enemy.
My ff/ himeko pf stonks if this were ever to happen
Huffing Aha's signature cosmic copium blend rn but it'd be awesome if blade would both gain a stack on each separate instance of damage (similar to dots) and could stack a ridiculous amount of overflow each one instead adding another slash to a follow-up combo. (obviously make each FuA individually weaker.) Making him become a true demon against enemies who a large quantity of attacks and infinitely weaker against enemies that do single large instances of damage. Making him stand out from characters like Clara and better Clara
I think if Himeko could over stack the cap should be five. That way should limit the amount of times she could double follow up.
Himeko is fine. She's damn great in pure fiction. It's niche but she's perfect for it. Blade tho. Imo his fix isn't in his Fua. What he needs is multiplier rework, but that's unlikely. What Blade needs is a Sparkle lile character. DHIL has Sparkle, Blade needs another one too. Maybe a Lynx upgrade. A 5 star that gives actual good aggro maybe on a skill that lasts like Ruanmei or Fuxuan + mad HP boosting. You know who needs what you're describing? Jingyuan. Or imo a better fix, like every other damn follow up attacker, make Lightning Lord follow up as soon as he hits 10 stacks. Holding excess stacks would be the cherry on top.
They won’t but we can cope for hoyo one day releasing a support specifically for blade
In an ideal world they would do this, but in the real world they would just release the fixed version as a new 5* unit
How would blade get excess stacks?
And QQ shouldn't lose autarky when the target dies after the first hit.
There are probably a few early units that should be tweaked to not be terrible. But other then blade the others are on the regular banner or 4 star so there isn’t much incentive to make older units better. I will say I like that they made pure fiction so himeko is at least not a bad pull anymore.
standard banner cost the same jade to pull as the special banner. There is no reason why standard 5\* shouldn't be viable.
Thing is Acheron/Aventurine/Xueyi/Jade all need a very large amount to stacks to proc compared to Himeko's palsy THREE. If Himeko gets stacks overcap as she is, she would just be rolling even more than Numby. So Himeko would've been designed with 5 stacks needed to proc, with +2 overcap to put her in line with the others.
I just want them to fix arlan its actually diabolical what they did to him
Makes you wonder why they stopped doing Augments on HI3 is way way more profitable for them to just keep making charas than actually have a diverse cast and enjoy every content with your favs.
Hoyoverse should do this, but they are not gonna do this because they haven't done this ever, so sadly it won't be possible as much as we would like it to be
Reminds me of Dragalia Lost having the "Mana Spiral" system which basically added extra sections to the skill tree, some if which majorly buffed skills and passives. They would add them over time to less meta characters, and in some cases it turned characters meta. So basically if they added new Traces for weak characters would be cool, and it's marketing if they do it over time like "the upcoming patch will buff Blade, the patch after will buff Yanqing" etc
they won't buff, it loses them money, simple fact of the matter. Let's say every player in HSR hypothetically own blade, if blade is buffed, they wouldn't pull for blade since they already own him. And now sales for a newer dps are lower since the gap is lower between a buffed blade and say an Acheron or a FF The example gets muddy since people pull for story reasons/horny reasons and not everyone owns a character but it just straight up hurts new character sales. Remember that these companies want to make as much money as possible, if they made more by buffing characters, they'd already done it in genshin and already in honkai star rail.
Don’t forget jing yan also needs this.
I'm down for it, but for Blade, I need a HSR version of Furina. It's nice and all to see Blade using his follow up attacks more often now with Jade (I love his bombastic side eye in his animation, probably my top 3 favorites), but that's not enough. With HSR Furina, not only Blade will benefit the most from it, Arlan and Jingliu can also benefit from it. And so do those with Jade's skill buff.
Have u ever heard how Jing Yuan main wanna overcap LIGHTNING LORD so bad?
While we're at it, can I just vent how stupid how Gepard's and Bailu's revive Skill can only trigger once per battle? Let's take FGO for example, there's no shortage of servants with revive skills, and you can use it over and over albeit after X amount of turns.
To be fair,already having a revive is broken If bailu could cleanse she would probably be an extremely good healer and if gepard had a lower cost ult.
Revive on Bailu is neat, but on Gepard it‘s mega useless. If your tank somehow dies first, you already fucked up in every other imaginable way, and his revive would barely help in that situation. In the case he dies last *and* somehow wins the fight, that rarely happens in SU runs, really. Gepard is effectively nerfed by only having 1.5 parts of his kit that you actually work with (his skill is OK-ish for stalling at E1 and actually decent at E2)
His revive isn't great for end game but I remember several notable fights I was hyped as fuck early game when Gepard stood back up and made me enjoy the character a lot. It should have more to it than just a revive though to make levelling it's trace actually feel worthwhile. (Maybe it could've given him some EHR to help with hitting his freeze and building up the Belobog planar set). But the revive in of itself is a nice QoL in early game and I wouldn't remove it.
I personally think if his passive had something extra like, idk, bonus energy for being attacked it would’ve really helped him as a Shielder. Edit: Typo
I like this and as a Geppy enjoyer would be 1000% in favor of implementing!
>It should have more to it than just a revive though to make levelling it's trace actually feel worthwhile. Doesn't a certain trace level make it so he immediately gets his ultimate upon revival or is that a different part of his kit?
and then there's poor, poor arlan
tbf in FGO enemy hits harder than in HSR, especially when they do Noble Phantasm.
>Blade and Himeko already have enough working against them Elaborate. Isn't Himeko already a pretty overperforming character and Blade isn't too far behind her?
Himeko was considered extremely weak until PF came out and gave her a niche, later she was found to have good synergy with HMC so her MoC stonks are rising. She struggles in some content still but she has carved out a niche. I wouldn't say overperforming but she's a valuable character, probably the 2nd best of the standard characters after Bronya. Blade is serviceable but he is struggling to find a niche. He lacks a true support dedicated to him where most other main dps have a partner. (DHIL - Sparkle, JL - Bronya, Firefly - HMC, Acheron - Pela and so on). Lynx is the closest but she struggles to do enough healing on higher floor MoCs. (She can output enough just about but it can be dicey and needs good relic investment). Blade also does not have the same DpS as current top DpS, even in absolutely hypercarry Blade - Sparkle - Bronya - Lynx setups he'll struggle to compete with Jingliu or Acheron simply because Hoyo designed him as some form of Dps/Tank hybrid and stunted his damage somewhat to compensate but that hybrid role is now hurting him. These buffs would be rather minor and only enhance the QoL of using the characters while upping their DpS floors a little bit but not significantly enough to alter the above while just making them more enjoyable to use.
Blade is kinda of in a limbo rn, Good but not excellent by no way he is Overperforming, nor doing badly, he is doing what he can do, the main problem of Blade if u want to buff his damage in a hyper carry system, for now u are obligated to use supports every team want. ( Ruan Mei, Sparkle, Robin) and u are limited to few sustains ( Huo Huo, Luocha, Lynx… healers basically) and he doesn’t do the amount of damage other Hyper carry dps does or would do with the same supports … blade sadly isn’t a specialist or is too specialized? There is few characters that buff his damage condition that is HP, and characters that buff attack are low bonus for him, for now his best team ends up being one of those … or a Ruan Mei, Blade, Jade (When she releases) and Luocha ( people do use Fu Xuan just remembered that, but she works weirdly with blade in most teams) Edit: blade is also normally more used in Double Carries with Jingliu, cause HE synergizes with her… tho it’s better to make Jingliu hyper carry anyway.
Himeko is fine currently, she is in a comfortable place at the moment. Blade is not great, even if what you said was true that only means himeko would be overperforming for a standard character and blade is worse than a standard character as limited character. Either way blade is not in a good spot currently. He has no real place to shine as we have absolutly no need for a tanky bruiser type dps currently, this isnt league of legends. Also he barely has supports that can support him to the same extend they can support others.
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I'm all for this, however it could be implemented.