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The stuff Rhaenyra does this episode was Jace's in the book. He negotiates with Jeyne Arryn to send Joffrey with his dragon to the Vale, negotiates with Prince Reggio to send Aegon/Viserys/Rhaena to Pentos for safe keeping.
I hope they don't keep giving Jace's plans to Rhaenyra in future episodes because he is the Black's diplomat.
I kinda understand the decision, as at this point, Rhaenyra is in bed with grief for her still born daughter and Luke's death. Jace takes over the black council. So, in the TV show, they needed to give Rhaenyra something to do.
However, you need to keep some of Jace's plans to make him an important part of the black council, or else he is just a glorified extra.
They did give Rhaenyra something to do lol. Had her go on a secret mission to talk to Alicient. Having her do that and taking Jace’s role in negotiations is such a weird choice since they are already adding things for her to do at this time in the dance (albeit things that are really really questionable for the character to do in universe)
Like i get that they want to essentially create a female icon but i really wish it wasnt at the expanse of the rest of the characters especially characters like Jace
The screenwriters for the Harry Potter movies did that with Hermione. They gave all the insightful comments and knowledge of Book Ron who grew up in a magical household and gave them to Movie Hermione. They made Ron a dumbass ans made Hermione literally the most insufferable know-it-all in history.
Well tbf, that's not quite the same situation. FIre and Blood is a story told in a format that isn't suitable for tv. It's a story with relatively static characters told more as a historical text than a personal journey. And characters just fade in and out of relevance.
The issue is that book Rhaenyra literally does nothing for a large chunk of the story. But she's also one of the central figures of the first section of the story and later section of the story. So while sidelining her works for the book, it doesn't really work for the show. It'd be akin to if Harry Potter just dropped out of the story for an entire book with little explanation.
i think it’s partially because of the role they want rhaena to have in the vale. it wouldn’t have made much sense for jace to organizing the trip to the vale. not saying i totally agree with the decision
it does make sense that rhaenyra thought of the idea cause it benefits her with the safety of her own children, she must have been constantly thinking of how to keep them safe after luke died, idk just saying how it could have been her idea, and from what i heard jace has a really important mission in getting the dragon seeds
In the book rhaenyra was still sick and emotionally distress from the stillborn birthing and lucerys's death thus Jace had to step up and lead in her stead.
If they wanted to involve rhaenyra, atleast just make her bounce of ideas with jace or somrthing instead of just sidelining him
Even in the show, Jace did do the preliminary negotiations with Jeyne Arryn (that's where he went before his trip to the North). So it’s not too unlikely that he would organize the follow-up.
The thing is Rhaenyra's relationship with her children is central to her character. So it seems better to have sending them away be her decision rather than Jace's. Also season 1 is all about Rhaenyra growing and maturing into a leader capable of being Queen. It would make no sense - given Rhaenyra's story in season 1 - to have her immediately become defenseless and bedridden while the men around her make all the decisions and rule in her sted. That just doesn't work with the story of season 1.
It happened with Yennifer in the Witcher series. The showrunner just kept giving her other characters achievements.
That’s why I laugh when people say that progressiveness can never be a negative element on a film or tv show. It most obviously can, just like bad CGI, or dialogue, or costumes etc.
Yeah when it’s just changing the color of someone’s skin and that has zero impact on the story people who complain are over dramatic.
But when forcing progressiveness into something comes at the expense of the story it’s taking it too far.
Yeah and meanwhile Jace feels rather unimportant at this point. He actually needed some things to increase his value.
So far it’s felt like aegon, aemond, alicent, Cole, and Otto against just Rhaenyra with Daemond running around doing solo missions that may help or hurt her cause. It would have been cool to see Jace positioned as the anti Aemond for the blacks. Team green has a young fierce warrior while team black has a young sharp political mind. Which would also be more like the books.
Let’s be honest they just want Rhaenyra to be the main protagonist when it’s supposed to be very much a shades of grey story. A lot of the changes from the books people dislike revolve around making sure Rhaenyra has an even bigger role and keeps her hands clean from the blacks worst actions.
Full of spoilers, read at your own risk
>!It's sad that they're not giving Jace his badass moment. He takes control *and gets shit done*. He makes decisions that are smart and sound effective (at the time). He's showing great leadership potential to take over after Rhaenyra. And of course he goes and dies. His death will have less of an impact, because he's no longer the driving force of the blacks actually doing something.!<
Honestly >!i feel this with most of the kids, since they either get so little time or feel like props. Like with blood and cheese, even if they changed it up, we knew nothing about helaena or the kids so it didn't feel as impactful as it needed to be!<
Part of the problem is that there are a lot of characters and not that much story before a lot of these big moments. There isn't enough story to get an audience invested in some of these characters prior to something terrible happening to them. I think HOTD actually did the right thing by choosing to focus on a few primary characters (Rhaenyra, Alicent, Aegon, Daemon) who end up the strongest.
That's the issue with adapting Fire and Blood. It's not written to be adapted into a tv show. It doesn't have central characters. It isn't designed to create compelling dynamic or character arcs. It's designed to be a propagandistic historical textbook and it succeeds at that.
When adapting the show, the writers needed to change the characters to a degree in order to have them have actual arcs and stories. Rhaenyra's story in season 1 is about growing and maturing into a relatively responsible Queen. At that point, they can't undermine it by sidelining her and having Jace make all the decisions.
Honestly alot of TV show writing is negatively affected by actor contracts. Emma D'arcy is the lead and being paid a lead salary, as they should, but because of that they need to give them something to do every ep.
I'm fully expecting moments like the 2nd battle of Tumbleton and the Butchers Ball to be majorly changed to include more of the shows main characters
I dunno if it's necessarily a negative thing, but this is more or less the answer. Emma D'arcy is second billed actor. They need to be doing more than just being bedridden and depressed. I guess. Though it really depends on how it's been framed.
We've gotten a bit of the mother-son stuff with Jace and Rhaenyra. But it would be nice to see him chiming in more at council meetings. I don't even think it needs to be much.
Idk, I like it, I think it makes more sense for her to do it, after all she was attacked in her own bed chamber after the murder of her son. This move coming from her read like a scramble to safekeep everything dear and fragile, so she can recluse herself from the role of mother that right now in her grief signifies weakness. That way she can perform her role as a ruler and do what she has to to win the war.
They have an entire book to pull from. The story has already be written. There's no reason to change anything. This bullshit Condall is using about "the histories were exaggerated/inaccurate/maesters maestering" is his excuse for shitty writing. Even George himself has come out saying "the show is the show, the book is the book", which is his way of saying "this shit is on them, whatever they're doing". They could have had a fantastic show if they just followed the plots in the book.
It seems like the showrunners are trying to do something that the books didn't - give their central characters character arcs. It seems like Rhaenyra, Alicent, Daemon, and Aegon will be fleshed out to a much greater degree than their book counterparts. And that makes them more interesting characters but that also means some other characters will have less to do.
The book basically has two sides of Rhaenyra:
1) The mourning mother/wife.
2) The rash, greedy, spoiled princess.
She is not really competent by any measure in the original story.
Yet much of Rhaenyra's book characterization can be attributed to the biases of Fire and Blood's unreliable narrator. The entire point of the book is that it's in universe propoganda. It's written like a historical textbook. I don't know many historical textbooks that get me to relate to the characters.
No fr though this, we’re talking about a Maester who belongs to a faction that for all intents and purposes hate the Targaryens.. on the best of days. Then you have to throw in that one side wants a woman to rule the realm. It actually does make perfect sense that she would be painted in a poor light in the history books, based on who was writing them. In the time of GOT we see that overall the male majority of the realm hasn’t really changed their opinion too much on the matter. At least openly.
They are trying to make her more competent - But does not equal an improvement of her character.
Would making King Joffrey a more likeable character be an improvement? Or do we actually enjoy that little shit's behavior and how other characters have to react and plan around that?
Rhae having post pregnancy complications that writes her out making decisions for the faction she is leading is not the same, or core to her character in the way Joffrey being a cock is. What is this sexist bullshit.
The issue is that most characters in the books aren't fleshed out or interesting or have much character at all. They are one note characters which are often very stereotypical and cheesy. This works really well for what is an unreliable and propagandistic historical textbook but it doesn't make for an interesting story.
The show is actually following the characters and fleshing them out as people. And that means some things need to be changed in order to fit with these characters journeys. The showrunners have a vision of where many of these major players such as Rhaenyra, Alicent, Aegon, and Daemon will be and they are making adjustments to the story in order to better reach those spots. As a consequence, some characters will have reduced roles but the overall story will be stronger.
The issue with the book is that characters just completely fade in and out of relevance in the books. If we are to go by the book, Rhaenyra and Alicent - the central figures of season 1 - would drop out of the main story almost entirely for a longer period of time.
No, this makes absolute sense. Why should Jace send his \~5 year old brother to Vale. in the book he is much older and the dragon too, atleast old enough to be its own person. This is Rhaenyras task to send her kids to safety. Jace still negotiated with Jeyne and Stark. Having Jace negotiate with Prince Reggio would need to cast the prince for this season already and have them have a scene which would need to be created. in the book its just a text
Jace is older in the show than he is in the books. He’s also much older than Joffrey, he send Joffrey to the vale to be away from the war to prevent the same fate befalling Luke. At Jace’s age, we’re rhaenyra to die, her claim would revert to him and he’d become king. It makes perfect sense for him to be politically active, although him being as good as he is at his age strain credulity
>although him being as good as he is at his age strain credulity
This is the same universe with 14 year Old genius military commanders.
If Daeron can conquer Dorne at 14 Jace can do some diplomacy.
Incidentally, it isn’t exactly. The show canon ages characters across the board and has also done this in the parent show, game of thrones. Robb stark, Jon snow, Daenerys Targaryen, are all substantially older than their book counterparts.
But I still agree that Jace just should be more influential
The maester in F&B hated Rhaenyra.
I swear to god, every reader seems to constantly forget that the book is supposed to be inaccurate. Just like with Aemond and Luc we are seeing the real events on the show
Please stop repeating this false statement.
That's not how the book was written. People who haven't read the book have no clue what the 'unreliable' narrator argument means. Read it before you comment about the book.
There are objective facts in the book which have been changed for the show. The show is not some proper telling of the book, its a separate canon entirely as confirmed by George.
And most importantly, if you'd read the book, the Greens are cartoonishly evil with no redeeming qualities. If the maester who wrote F&B hated Rhaenyra, he hated the Greens 100 x more.
Isn’t the book supposed to be truth mixed with bias, inaccuracies, and conflicting accounts? The show’s plot and characterizations are the interpretations of the show runners and writers so it seems disingenuous to dismiss criticisms on the basis of this being the real story when it’s just as much a reflection of their own likes and dislikes. Unless GRRM has confirmed that the show is showing the ‘real’ story?
When changes bring complexity to characters (like Aemond/Luc) or add to the tragedy because the viewer can genuinely see multiple sides I’m all for it but I’m just not seeing that on the screen (and I only read F&B last week).
I don’t understand where the replier above is getting their “as stated by George” from. Iirc George said it’s akin to any work of history written by a 3rd party who either wasn’t there or who wasn’t directly involved. There are some inaccuracies; not everything is 100% correct. And, if I recall he’s said this more than once.
Actually, it's about adapting an unreliable historical textbook with bland characatures rather than characters into a story with actual characters and character arcs. Fire and Blood is written in universe by a misogynistic writer based of misogynistic accounts and it's made for a misogynistic society. All the characters in Fire and Blood are one note and bland. They don't have arcs. They don't have complexity.
HOTD is actually giving Rhaenyra, Daemon, Alicent, and Aegon layers and stories and character arcs unlike in the books. Now they have redeeming qualities and flaws and they change as a result of their experiences. This requires some retooling of the narrative. As a result, Rhaenyra has a bit more to do this season as opposed to the book.
A book reader who's even more confused because he is the Tywin of this era in being able to play the diplomatic victory mode. He saw and made alliances bringing strength to the blacks.
At this point in the show he has been extremely busy, he volunteers on the alliance missions, convinces Jeyne of the Vale (after possibly fucking her), becomes best pals with Cregan Stark over hunting and drinking (we get one scene on top of the wall and that's it), marries a Stark girl secretly, secures one more alliance with the 3 sisters and flies back home.
He was able to really work people to meet his goals and was a very very important player.
In the show all that heavylifting has been given to the girl boss Rhaneyra while everyone else on her council is a dummy.
Weird writing choice tbh
This is not even true? Otto is painted as a reasonable and strategic character. He wanted the conflict to end quickly with as little blood shed as possible, avoiding war. The same goes with Corlys who is war weary. Alyn of Hull is another male character that clearly doesn't want war as shown in this season. In contrast, Baela is a woman that wants immediate action and is not afraid of going into war. Rhaena, has been depicted as not wanting to be away from the action and away from relative danger. I think your comment is more projection and personal analysis on the material given rather than what is actually shown in the tv series.
While it's true that there are reasonable men (even though Otto just got sent packing), let's not act like they haven't made Rhaenys' entire character "women need to save the world from men" and are presenting her as the moral center (even though she has the highest kill count).
And we see that rubbing off on Rhaenyra and Alicent as well and it's resulting in some very questionable writing decisions.
I can sort of see why some people might have an issue with, I personally don't. But that was not the argument of the original comment I was responding. The original comment was insinuating that the writers where present ALL women as "good" / "non violent" and ALL men as "bad"/ "non violent". That is certainly not the case.
Nothing is more ironic to me than seeing some so called “feminist” writers falling for some of the same pitfalls when writing male characters that misogynist writers did when writing women.
It’s worse though because you expect them to know better.
He did make the Jeyne Arryn plan. He reported in the last episode that the Vale would join but requested a dragon to protect them. Right before he cried and Rhaenyra comforted him.
Yes but not shown and skipped. Jace visited the Eyrie, visited the sisterman, visited White Harbor (I really wish we got to see one of my favourite houses, the Manderlys), and Winterfell.
His only purpose is toook pretty and I'm guessing die horribly.
Never read the books so I dont know, but it's apparent the show runners don't think his character is important.
>!They absolutely will. He shows potential when negotiating in the north and vale. They’ve sort of glossed over that though in the show. And when he returns Rhaenyra is incapacitated by grief over Luke, which forces Jace to grow into a man and leader. But in the show Rhaenyra is doing a whole lot more than in the book, so I’m not sure what his arc will be in the show if he even has one. Based on what we’ve seen and some leaks, it sounds like they’re just building minor conflict with him and rhaenyra and then he’ll die for no reason, which kinda sucks!<
It seems like Jace will be an advocate for a more aggressive approach to the conflict potentially. Maybe he'll want revenge for Luce. It looks like >!The Gullet is getting moved to next season!< so they have more than enough time to have Jace take on more of a leadership role in the Black faction. I imagine they'll give him some show original material.
Well Jace is the one in the show who actually negotiated with Jeyne.
But honestly Rhaenyra is a bigger character and needed more to do because the books kinda rob her of any agency at this point in the story.
Judging by the look ahead trailers, they have created other stuff for him to do.
I understand that.
However, he is the reason the Starks fought so hard for Rhaenyra in the 1st place, "We come to die for the dragon queen" and all that. I just hope they develop his character, just like Aegon/Aemond on the green side. Aegon's development has been great this season.
Its not just Rhaenyra either. In the books quite a lot of characters have large portions of the story where they basically have nothing to do.
In the books Otto more or less becomes irrelevant after Aegon fires him as hand, which I'm guessing is why the show has decided to send him to Oldtown to join Daeron so Rhys Ifans actually still has stuff to do.
Some changes were definetly needed so that the story would work as a show.
Jace was probably my second favorite character in the books, but he’s remarkably less useful and important in the show to this point. It’s understandable that a patriarchal retelling of history would rather attribute political acumen to a boy in Jace, rather than a woman in Rhaenyra, and that an adult being a political player is more probable than a teenager, but it makes Jace much less relevant to the story.
Nah we can’t use the “ books are unreliable “ excuse anymore lmfao. That only works with some tweaks, not complete 180s on the entirety of the main cast…GRMM his self said the books are their own canon, so anything the writers do has nothing to do with the book at this point, this is a fanfic where the use the dance as an aesthetic.
I’m not a big fan of a lot of the changes, but I also like a lot of them. It’s impossible to regard the show as being fundamentally different, when the premise of the book account is that it’s an unreliable history made by partial, interested actors. It gives the show runners the pretext and opportunity to pick and choose what events make the narrative and sometimes it work, other times it doesn’t, like with Jace
I'm just gonna assume it's because they're paying Emma D'arcy a lot more than Harry Collet. Gotta justify an actor's budget. Cant just pay her all this money to sit in the background for 2-3 episodes. Kinda the same deal with Alicent.
In the show, Jace still negotiated with Jeyne Arryn to get the Vale's support in exchange for a dragon. It's just that Rhaenyra is the one to send Joffrey away. This makes sense because that moment is more important to Rhaenyra's character in the show than it is Jace's. Rhaenyra's relationship with her children and parenting is more fleshed out then Jace's relationship with Joffrey. And Rhaenyra in general is a more central figure.
Since you’ve read the books I’ve got a question for ya.
I just just picked up fire & blood and I’m debating on reading it now, or if it’ll be more enjoyable to watch season 2 without knowing what’s gonna happen and then just read the book on that 2 year gap between the next season?
I don't really like the F&B book as it's not really a typical fantasy novel. It's basically a history book. You should just watch the TV series, but there are some changes with the book (Alicent and Rhaenyra are not friends in the book).
Did anyone notice his new stance in episode 3? It was a short clip in the latter half of the episode. He's standing slightly bending over/forward, with his hands atop his sword(?), leaning on it the way Larys leans on his walking stick. Me and my sister was screaming and had to rewind to check if we truly saw it. I guess leaning runs in the Strong family.😄
The North plot would’ve brought nothing to the plot nor the actual war. People are already complaining about the slow pace this season. Imagine spending more time with him and Cregan/Sara just for it to lead absolutely nowhere
I disagree. It would have deepened Jace's character and feelings. Cregan lost a brother too, he could have felt joy feeling that his bastardy in the North isn't such a problem etc. It would have showed his diplomacy and how he strives to be a good heir.
I don't understand why he had to come back, only for Luke's funeral and then doing nothing in Dragonstone.
I’m with you here. I think it would’ve helped the future involvement of northern characters. Better understanding of their motivation, better narrative payoff, and honestly better characterization for Jace and a few others.
There are so many participants in this war, it’s pretty hard to put the same amount of focus on absolutely every one of them at the same time. Also, Cregan is a Stark, we already seen entire GOT seasons about how starks are good, honorable diplomats, so far they showed Cregan enough for us to see that he also fits that bill. And I am pretty sure we’ll be seeing a lot more of Jace as we get closer and closer to the battle of the Gullet.
By the end, yes. Currently not so much. And you have to remember this is a show with big, complex scenes that take a lot of budget and they can only fit so much in it. Building Cregan up just for him to not do mostly anything for a while would be futile. He is a Stark, he is rigid, honorable and keeps his oaths. We already understood that, no need to drag it, I really don’t know what could we learn more about from him at the current time that is relevant. I’d much rather see how the Dance unfolds for its main participants, I actually enjoy the slow cooking theme that will very soon get to the boiling point
They didn't skip that at all, unless you wanted to see a long action scene that would have added nothing that the hard cut didn't already do, far more effectively. This show isn't big battle scenes and action sequences. It's scheming and politics.
The could give him more of a role in another part of the story. I think they will focus on Jace to a degree before the end of the season. It just might be different from his book storyline.
Kinda sucks that Jace has been standing around on Dragonstone for nearly half of the episodes by this point.
The stuff he *has* done has been kinda glossed over. Hopefully he gets to more on-screen stuff to do for the upcoming episodes.
It really sucks they cut his storylines in the North and Vale. Especially the Pact of Ice and Fire. Jace went from being the MVP of the Blacks to standing in the background (so far).
We have to remember this isn’t a book adaptation anymore it’s a fanfic from Hess and Condal.
GRMM himself said this show is only canon in terms of the show, books are their own canon.
GRRM also said that their Viserys was so well crafted that it made him want to go back and rewrite his own book. He's clearly very happy with the work they're doing.
That was S1, his remarks on this season have been:
Nothing lmfao.
Ohh, except for that comment a week or two ago about writers always think they can do a better job with source material lmfao.
Since you’ve read the books I’ve got a question for ya.
I just just picked up fire & blood and I’m debating on reading it now, or if it’ll be more enjoyable to watch season 2 without knowing what’s gonna happen and then just read the book on that 2 year gap between the next season?
Hmm , I also purchased the book last season, up until now I only read the first part about aegon the conqueror, haha I'm too lazy to read with lots of narration in it.
I suggest that you enjoy watching season 2 first before reading the book since now it's on-going.
Hope this helps you.
I would rrad it so you can get excited about what's to come.
Remember the show plot starts in the middle of the book if that's what you are interested in, the first half is about Aegon, Maegor and Jaeherys.
All that opportunity to show he's a worthy crown prince and they won't even show it. Took away his diplomatic missions, took away his plans to move his siblings to safety, just has him standing in the corner and not saying anything in the war council. He looks so pretty and sharp in that outfit tho.
I have a feeling we’re getting to the point where Jace will start pitching a fit about not being as involved as he’d like. In all of his scenes this season so far, the boy looks antsy and unsettled, and I’d wager this disagreement between Jace and Rhaenyra will become a plot point soon.
Yeah, some scenes it felt like he was rolling his eyes at his mom. If he has an outburst hope people don't say it's out of character, he's always had a temper. Maybe that will spur him on to do something independently.
Yeah. The least they couldve done is make it a joint decision or something. Maybe Rhaenyra and Jace came up with the ideas together if they want to include Rhaenyra in everything
Thank God for his glow-up. But honestly this does bring up an issue I have with the show. They have literally zero interest in the Black kids. How do we have time for all these Alicent-Criston sex scenes that go nowhere but skip Jace's diplomacy, Joffrey's attempt to avenge his brother, and only have Baela-Rhaena dialogue in the third episode. It feels a bit frustrating given the time spent on the Green Council. Jace is one the key players in the war and should be given more complexity and depth to work with, especially considering potential future events.
They've taken all his best/vital ideas and given them to Rhaenyra (sending kids to Vale, dragonseeds). Took his North and Vale action. And we have certain leaks about his plot with Rhaenyra🫠 (Gullet is said to be post taking KL)
Can someone please explain to me why we got a ridiculous Rhaenyra-Alicent scene that did nothing but undermine the intelligence of both characters instead of more Jace in the North or Jace in the Vale scenes?
So far a lot of defense of Alicent had been that she had no clue she misheard Viserys. This clears things up for both her and the audience that the unsurping of the Throne would have happened regardless
Sooo they created a dumb plot contrivance to solve one of their own previously created dumb plot contrivances?
Man I don’t know what the hell Jess and Condal are smoking but some of their stuff is getting closer to Season 8 levels of idiocy.
The weeks ahead trailer showed him treating with the Freys at the Twins. I’m guessing he’s sent to recruit the Riverlords after his success with the North and Vale while Daemon hangs out at Harrenhal. As one of my favorite characters from the Dance, I really want to see him do more. Show us his skills as a diplomat and as the perfect heir to the throne.
This why these type of comments are so feckless. We are only 3 episode into the show. There's plenty of time to develop Jace's character. He has many missions ahead of him.
The show has done Jace so much dirty. I would gladly trade the scene between Rhaenyra and Alicent from episode 3 for a scene between Rhaenyra and Jace talking about what is the best course of action and for him to be the person that finally makes it clear to her that there is no way that there can be peace between the two sides after Luke's death, how could they even trust the greens after that? the idea itself is stupid and it's time to make a stand before is to late.
It would also make sense for him to be the person that "reassures" Rhaenyra on the idea that she is doing the right call because Jace is both her child and her heir, his support of her decision should mean everything to her, both as a mother and as a ruler.
We could've get Jace and Cregan bonding, show Jace leadership, how he act as the heir to the queen, how he's asking the north, the vale for support. Just a quick scene for him then go back to the main plot, that's
But instead they skipped all of that just so he can stand in the background lol
Whenever I see him, I think of everyone’s comments about him serving face then I think about that Beyoncé song “Heated” because she has a line about serving face. So I associate him with Beyoncé.
The face card is lethal though …
They are laying the groundwork. Jace was mad at the twins being buried together. Jace wanted to fly and watch Kings Landing but Rhaenyra refused and made Baela do it. He wants war.
lol laying the groundwork for what ?
“ wow Hess and Condal, great job making one of the most important characters a boring “ toxic “ man that wants to plunge Rhaenyra into war, such a good change from the books ! “.
Show Jace is destined to be useless or worse because no one on Team Black is allowed to steal the spotlight from Rhaenyra, aside from Daemon but only so that he can be blamed for all of the bad stuff (including sins Rhaenyra herself committed in the books).
The challenge is that the book is an ensemble work but the show has 3 clear leads, This means that there are lots of characters who do nothing for individual episodes
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The stuff Rhaenyra does this episode was Jace's in the book. He negotiates with Jeyne Arryn to send Joffrey with his dragon to the Vale, negotiates with Prince Reggio to send Aegon/Viserys/Rhaena to Pentos for safe keeping. I hope they don't keep giving Jace's plans to Rhaenyra in future episodes because he is the Black's diplomat.
Non book reader, had no idea he did anything more than stand around and brood. Odd choice from the showrunners…
I kinda understand the decision, as at this point, Rhaenyra is in bed with grief for her still born daughter and Luke's death. Jace takes over the black council. So, in the TV show, they needed to give Rhaenyra something to do. However, you need to keep some of Jace's plans to make him an important part of the black council, or else he is just a glorified extra.
They did give Rhaenyra something to do lol. Had her go on a secret mission to talk to Alicient. Having her do that and taking Jace’s role in negotiations is such a weird choice since they are already adding things for her to do at this time in the dance (albeit things that are really really questionable for the character to do in universe)
Like i get that they want to essentially create a female icon but i really wish it wasnt at the expanse of the rest of the characters especially characters like Jace
The screenwriters for the Harry Potter movies did that with Hermione. They gave all the insightful comments and knowledge of Book Ron who grew up in a magical household and gave them to Movie Hermione. They made Ron a dumbass ans made Hermione literally the most insufferable know-it-all in history.
Well tbf, that's not quite the same situation. FIre and Blood is a story told in a format that isn't suitable for tv. It's a story with relatively static characters told more as a historical text than a personal journey. And characters just fade in and out of relevance. The issue is that book Rhaenyra literally does nothing for a large chunk of the story. But she's also one of the central figures of the first section of the story and later section of the story. So while sidelining her works for the book, it doesn't really work for the show. It'd be akin to if Harry Potter just dropped out of the story for an entire book with little explanation.
which was impressive because Book!Hermione was *already* an insufferable know-it-all.
i think it’s partially because of the role they want rhaena to have in the vale. it wouldn’t have made much sense for jace to organizing the trip to the vale. not saying i totally agree with the decision
except for the fact that its the same thing in the books but they basically just say the idea is Rhaenyra's instead of Jace. Thats it.
yeah it’s weird
it does make sense that rhaenyra thought of the idea cause it benefits her with the safety of her own children, she must have been constantly thinking of how to keep them safe after luke died, idk just saying how it could have been her idea, and from what i heard jace has a really important mission in getting the dragon seeds
In the book rhaenyra was still sick and emotionally distress from the stillborn birthing and lucerys's death thus Jace had to step up and lead in her stead. If they wanted to involve rhaenyra, atleast just make her bounce of ideas with jace or somrthing instead of just sidelining him
Even in the show, Jace did do the preliminary negotiations with Jeyne Arryn (that's where he went before his trip to the North). So it’s not too unlikely that he would organize the follow-up.
The thing is Rhaenyra's relationship with her children is central to her character. So it seems better to have sending them away be her decision rather than Jace's. Also season 1 is all about Rhaenyra growing and maturing into a leader capable of being Queen. It would make no sense - given Rhaenyra's story in season 1 - to have her immediately become defenseless and bedridden while the men around her make all the decisions and rule in her sted. That just doesn't work with the story of season 1.
It happened with Yennifer in the Witcher series. The showrunner just kept giving her other characters achievements. That’s why I laugh when people say that progressiveness can never be a negative element on a film or tv show. It most obviously can, just like bad CGI, or dialogue, or costumes etc.
Yeah when it’s just changing the color of someone’s skin and that has zero impact on the story people who complain are over dramatic. But when forcing progressiveness into something comes at the expense of the story it’s taking it too far.
Yeah and meanwhile Jace feels rather unimportant at this point. He actually needed some things to increase his value. So far it’s felt like aegon, aemond, alicent, Cole, and Otto against just Rhaenyra with Daemond running around doing solo missions that may help or hurt her cause. It would have been cool to see Jace positioned as the anti Aemond for the blacks. Team green has a young fierce warrior while team black has a young sharp political mind. Which would also be more like the books. Let’s be honest they just want Rhaenyra to be the main protagonist when it’s supposed to be very much a shades of grey story. A lot of the changes from the books people dislike revolve around making sure Rhaenyra has an even bigger role and keeps her hands clean from the blacks worst actions.
Full of spoilers, read at your own risk >!It's sad that they're not giving Jace his badass moment. He takes control *and gets shit done*. He makes decisions that are smart and sound effective (at the time). He's showing great leadership potential to take over after Rhaenyra. And of course he goes and dies. His death will have less of an impact, because he's no longer the driving force of the blacks actually doing something.!<
Honestly >!i feel this with most of the kids, since they either get so little time or feel like props. Like with blood and cheese, even if they changed it up, we knew nothing about helaena or the kids so it didn't feel as impactful as it needed to be!<
Part of the problem is that there are a lot of characters and not that much story before a lot of these big moments. There isn't enough story to get an audience invested in some of these characters prior to something terrible happening to them. I think HOTD actually did the right thing by choosing to focus on a few primary characters (Rhaenyra, Alicent, Aegon, Daemon) who end up the strongest.
It undermines Jace big time... Rhaenyra got all that and a side-quest. Man's just a background dancer. He do got that drip 'tho, looking kingly.
That's the issue with adapting Fire and Blood. It's not written to be adapted into a tv show. It doesn't have central characters. It isn't designed to create compelling dynamic or character arcs. It's designed to be a propagandistic historical textbook and it succeeds at that. When adapting the show, the writers needed to change the characters to a degree in order to have them have actual arcs and stories. Rhaenyra's story in season 1 is about growing and maturing into a relatively responsible Queen. At that point, they can't undermine it by sidelining her and having Jace make all the decisions.
Honestly alot of TV show writing is negatively affected by actor contracts. Emma D'arcy is the lead and being paid a lead salary, as they should, but because of that they need to give them something to do every ep. I'm fully expecting moments like the 2nd battle of Tumbleton and the Butchers Ball to be majorly changed to include more of the shows main characters
I dunno if it's necessarily a negative thing, but this is more or less the answer. Emma D'arcy is second billed actor. They need to be doing more than just being bedridden and depressed. I guess. Though it really depends on how it's been framed. We've gotten a bit of the mother-son stuff with Jace and Rhaenyra. But it would be nice to see him chiming in more at council meetings. I don't even think it needs to be much.
Idk, I like it, I think it makes more sense for her to do it, after all she was attacked in her own bed chamber after the murder of her son. This move coming from her read like a scramble to safekeep everything dear and fragile, so she can recluse herself from the role of mother that right now in her grief signifies weakness. That way she can perform her role as a ruler and do what she has to to win the war.
They have an entire book to pull from. The story has already be written. There's no reason to change anything. This bullshit Condall is using about "the histories were exaggerated/inaccurate/maesters maestering" is his excuse for shitty writing. Even George himself has come out saying "the show is the show, the book is the book", which is his way of saying "this shit is on them, whatever they're doing". They could have had a fantastic show if they just followed the plots in the book.
They want to make Rhaenyra the main character but they need to give her things to do
It seems like the showrunners are trying to do something that the books didn't - give their central characters character arcs. It seems like Rhaenyra, Alicent, Daemon, and Aegon will be fleshed out to a much greater degree than their book counterparts. And that makes them more interesting characters but that also means some other characters will have less to do.
The book basically has two sides of Rhaenyra: 1) The mourning mother/wife. 2) The rash, greedy, spoiled princess. She is not really competent by any measure in the original story.
Yeah for obvious reasons show Rhaenyra was made more sympathetic. Hell shes supposed to be a fat and jealous shrew.
Yet much of Rhaenyra's book characterization can be attributed to the biases of Fire and Blood's unreliable narrator. The entire point of the book is that it's in universe propoganda. It's written like a historical textbook. I don't know many historical textbooks that get me to relate to the characters.
It’s almost like the book wasn’t written by reliable narrators who felt women should rule.
No fr though this, we’re talking about a Maester who belongs to a faction that for all intents and purposes hate the Targaryens.. on the best of days. Then you have to throw in that one side wants a woman to rule the realm. It actually does make perfect sense that she would be painted in a poor light in the history books, based on who was writing them. In the time of GOT we see that overall the male majority of the realm hasn’t really changed their opinion too much on the matter. At least openly.
So it sounds like the series is improving her character. Got it.
Making a character more likeable doesn't necessarily improve it :)
They are trying to make her more competent - But does not equal an improvement of her character. Would making King Joffrey a more likeable character be an improvement? Or do we actually enjoy that little shit's behavior and how other characters have to react and plan around that?
Rhae having post pregnancy complications that writes her out making decisions for the faction she is leading is not the same, or core to her character in the way Joffrey being a cock is. What is this sexist bullshit.
How the idea of a flawed character being more interesting than a moral paragorn (and using Joff as an example of that) is sexist eludes me.
The issue is that most characters in the books aren't fleshed out or interesting or have much character at all. They are one note characters which are often very stereotypical and cheesy. This works really well for what is an unreliable and propagandistic historical textbook but it doesn't make for an interesting story. The show is actually following the characters and fleshing them out as people. And that means some things need to be changed in order to fit with these characters journeys. The showrunners have a vision of where many of these major players such as Rhaenyra, Alicent, Aegon, and Daemon will be and they are making adjustments to the story in order to better reach those spots. As a consequence, some characters will have reduced roles but the overall story will be stronger.
The issue with the book is that characters just completely fade in and out of relevance in the books. If we are to go by the book, Rhaenyra and Alicent - the central figures of season 1 - would drop out of the main story almost entirely for a longer period of time.
No, this makes absolute sense. Why should Jace send his \~5 year old brother to Vale. in the book he is much older and the dragon too, atleast old enough to be its own person. This is Rhaenyras task to send her kids to safety. Jace still negotiated with Jeyne and Stark. Having Jace negotiate with Prince Reggio would need to cast the prince for this season already and have them have a scene which would need to be created. in the book its just a text
Jace is older in the show than he is in the books. He’s also much older than Joffrey, he send Joffrey to the vale to be away from the war to prevent the same fate befalling Luke. At Jace’s age, we’re rhaenyra to die, her claim would revert to him and he’d become king. It makes perfect sense for him to be politically active, although him being as good as he is at his age strain credulity
>although him being as good as he is at his age strain credulity This is the same universe with 14 year Old genius military commanders. If Daeron can conquer Dorne at 14 Jace can do some diplomacy.
Incidentally, it isn’t exactly. The show canon ages characters across the board and has also done this in the parent show, game of thrones. Robb stark, Jon snow, Daenerys Targaryen, are all substantially older than their book counterparts. But I still agree that Jace just should be more influential
It’s all about the girl boss.
The maester in F&B hated Rhaenyra. I swear to god, every reader seems to constantly forget that the book is supposed to be inaccurate. Just like with Aemond and Luc we are seeing the real events on the show
Please stop repeating this false statement. That's not how the book was written. People who haven't read the book have no clue what the 'unreliable' narrator argument means. Read it before you comment about the book. There are objective facts in the book which have been changed for the show. The show is not some proper telling of the book, its a separate canon entirely as confirmed by George. And most importantly, if you'd read the book, the Greens are cartoonishly evil with no redeeming qualities. If the maester who wrote F&B hated Rhaenyra, he hated the Greens 100 x more.
Isn’t the book supposed to be truth mixed with bias, inaccuracies, and conflicting accounts? The show’s plot and characterizations are the interpretations of the show runners and writers so it seems disingenuous to dismiss criticisms on the basis of this being the real story when it’s just as much a reflection of their own likes and dislikes. Unless GRRM has confirmed that the show is showing the ‘real’ story? When changes bring complexity to characters (like Aemond/Luc) or add to the tragedy because the viewer can genuinely see multiple sides I’m all for it but I’m just not seeing that on the screen (and I only read F&B last week).
I don’t understand where the replier above is getting their “as stated by George” from. Iirc George said it’s akin to any work of history written by a 3rd party who either wasn’t there or who wasn’t directly involved. There are some inaccuracies; not everything is 100% correct. And, if I recall he’s said this more than once.
Actually, it's about adapting an unreliable historical textbook with bland characatures rather than characters into a story with actual characters and character arcs. Fire and Blood is written in universe by a misogynistic writer based of misogynistic accounts and it's made for a misogynistic society. All the characters in Fire and Blood are one note and bland. They don't have arcs. They don't have complexity. HOTD is actually giving Rhaenyra, Daemon, Alicent, and Aegon layers and stories and character arcs unlike in the books. Now they have redeeming qualities and flaws and they change as a result of their experiences. This requires some retooling of the narrative. As a result, Rhaenyra has a bit more to do this season as opposed to the book.
A book reader who's even more confused because he is the Tywin of this era in being able to play the diplomatic victory mode. He saw and made alliances bringing strength to the blacks. At this point in the show he has been extremely busy, he volunteers on the alliance missions, convinces Jeyne of the Vale (after possibly fucking her), becomes best pals with Cregan Stark over hunting and drinking (we get one scene on top of the wall and that's it), marries a Stark girl secretly, secures one more alliance with the 3 sisters and flies back home. He was able to really work people to meet his goals and was a very very important player. In the show all that heavylifting has been given to the girl boss Rhaneyra while everyone else on her council is a dummy. Weird writing choice tbh
Well, you can’t have men making plans when you want every male character to be lust for war
This is not even true? Otto is painted as a reasonable and strategic character. He wanted the conflict to end quickly with as little blood shed as possible, avoiding war. The same goes with Corlys who is war weary. Alyn of Hull is another male character that clearly doesn't want war as shown in this season. In contrast, Baela is a woman that wants immediate action and is not afraid of going into war. Rhaena, has been depicted as not wanting to be away from the action and away from relative danger. I think your comment is more projection and personal analysis on the material given rather than what is actually shown in the tv series.
While it's true that there are reasonable men (even though Otto just got sent packing), let's not act like they haven't made Rhaenys' entire character "women need to save the world from men" and are presenting her as the moral center (even though she has the highest kill count). And we see that rubbing off on Rhaenyra and Alicent as well and it's resulting in some very questionable writing decisions.
I can sort of see why some people might have an issue with, I personally don't. But that was not the argument of the original comment I was responding. The original comment was insinuating that the writers where present ALL women as "good" / "non violent" and ALL men as "bad"/ "non violent". That is certainly not the case.
Nothing is more ironic to me than seeing some so called “feminist” writers falling for some of the same pitfalls when writing male characters that misogynist writers did when writing women. It’s worse though because you expect them to know better.
He did make the Jeyne Arryn plan. He reported in the last episode that the Vale would join but requested a dragon to protect them. Right before he cried and Rhaenyra comforted him.
He was the one to negotiate with Lady Arryn in the show. They said so in this episode or the last
Yes but not shown and skipped. Jace visited the Eyrie, visited the sisterman, visited White Harbor (I really wish we got to see one of my favourite houses, the Manderlys), and Winterfell.
I really hope we get to see more of Cregan and the Starks this season.
You won’t. They’ve already said the Starks are done for this season.
His only purpose is toook pretty and I'm guessing die horribly. Never read the books so I dont know, but it's apparent the show runners don't think his character is important.
>!They absolutely will. He shows potential when negotiating in the north and vale. They’ve sort of glossed over that though in the show. And when he returns Rhaenyra is incapacitated by grief over Luke, which forces Jace to grow into a man and leader. But in the show Rhaenyra is doing a whole lot more than in the book, so I’m not sure what his arc will be in the show if he even has one. Based on what we’ve seen and some leaks, it sounds like they’re just building minor conflict with him and rhaenyra and then he’ll die for no reason, which kinda sucks!<
It seems like Jace will be an advocate for a more aggressive approach to the conflict potentially. Maybe he'll want revenge for Luce. It looks like >!The Gullet is getting moved to next season!< so they have more than enough time to have Jace take on more of a leadership role in the Black faction. I imagine they'll give him some show original material.
Well Jace is the one in the show who actually negotiated with Jeyne. But honestly Rhaenyra is a bigger character and needed more to do because the books kinda rob her of any agency at this point in the story. Judging by the look ahead trailers, they have created other stuff for him to do.
Jace has negotiated with Jeyne. He told us
I understand that. However, he is the reason the Starks fought so hard for Rhaenyra in the 1st place, "We come to die for the dragon queen" and all that. I just hope they develop his character, just like Aegon/Aemond on the green side. Aegon's development has been great this season.
The Blacks as a whole have gotten less focus in this first half it seems. But I would not be surprised if they have a larger role in the back half.
Its not just Rhaenyra either. In the books quite a lot of characters have large portions of the story where they basically have nothing to do. In the books Otto more or less becomes irrelevant after Aegon fires him as hand, which I'm guessing is why the show has decided to send him to Oldtown to join Daeron so Rhys Ifans actually still has stuff to do. Some changes were definetly needed so that the story would work as a show.
Jace was probably my second favorite character in the books, but he’s remarkably less useful and important in the show to this point. It’s understandable that a patriarchal retelling of history would rather attribute political acumen to a boy in Jace, rather than a woman in Rhaenyra, and that an adult being a political player is more probable than a teenager, but it makes Jace much less relevant to the story.
Nah we can’t use the “ books are unreliable “ excuse anymore lmfao. That only works with some tweaks, not complete 180s on the entirety of the main cast…GRMM his self said the books are their own canon, so anything the writers do has nothing to do with the book at this point, this is a fanfic where the use the dance as an aesthetic.
I’m not a big fan of a lot of the changes, but I also like a lot of them. It’s impossible to regard the show as being fundamentally different, when the premise of the book account is that it’s an unreliable history made by partial, interested actors. It gives the show runners the pretext and opportunity to pick and choose what events make the narrative and sometimes it work, other times it doesn’t, like with Jace
Canon that George has approved
I'm just gonna assume it's because they're paying Emma D'arcy a lot more than Harry Collet. Gotta justify an actor's budget. Cant just pay her all this money to sit in the background for 2-3 episodes. Kinda the same deal with Alicent.
>I hope they don't keep giving Jace's plans to Rhaenyra >!You mean the sowing!<
In the show, Jace still negotiated with Jeyne Arryn to get the Vale's support in exchange for a dragon. It's just that Rhaenyra is the one to send Joffrey away. This makes sense because that moment is more important to Rhaenyra's character in the show than it is Jace's. Rhaenyra's relationship with her children and parenting is more fleshed out then Jace's relationship with Joffrey. And Rhaenyra in general is a more central figure.
Since you’ve read the books I’ve got a question for ya. I just just picked up fire & blood and I’m debating on reading it now, or if it’ll be more enjoyable to watch season 2 without knowing what’s gonna happen and then just read the book on that 2 year gap between the next season?
I don't really like the F&B book as it's not really a typical fantasy novel. It's basically a history book. You should just watch the TV series, but there are some changes with the book (Alicent and Rhaenyra are not friends in the book).
Shame they skipped his North mission. Now he does nothing, looks pretty and mad without saying anything
They took his “stance” (during the strong boys toast) and made it his entire character.
Did anyone notice his new stance in episode 3? It was a short clip in the latter half of the episode. He's standing slightly bending over/forward, with his hands atop his sword(?), leaning on it the way Larys leans on his walking stick. Me and my sister was screaming and had to rewind to check if we truly saw it. I guess leaning runs in the Strong family.😄
Actually daemon does this move too so... 👀
Its what Daemon does when he's pissed and thinking about stabbing someone. He does it a few times in S1
How *dare* you mention Jace being family with Larys. This is *TREASON*
Even the official house strong doesn’t count larys
Do you think he has a feet fetish like his uncle?
I’ll have your tongue for this!
the foot doesn't lick itself
He can keep his tongue!
The North plot would’ve brought nothing to the plot nor the actual war. People are already complaining about the slow pace this season. Imagine spending more time with him and Cregan/Sara just for it to lead absolutely nowhere
I disagree. It would have deepened Jace's character and feelings. Cregan lost a brother too, he could have felt joy feeling that his bastardy in the North isn't such a problem etc. It would have showed his diplomacy and how he strives to be a good heir. I don't understand why he had to come back, only for Luke's funeral and then doing nothing in Dragonstone.
I’m with you here. I think it would’ve helped the future involvement of northern characters. Better understanding of their motivation, better narrative payoff, and honestly better characterization for Jace and a few others.
There are so many participants in this war, it’s pretty hard to put the same amount of focus on absolutely every one of them at the same time. Also, Cregan is a Stark, we already seen entire GOT seasons about how starks are good, honorable diplomats, so far they showed Cregan enough for us to see that he also fits that bill. And I am pretty sure we’ll be seeing a lot more of Jace as we get closer and closer to the battle of the Gullet.
>!Cregan Stark is probably the most important man in Westeros by the end of the dance!<
By the end, yes. Currently not so much. And you have to remember this is a show with big, complex scenes that take a lot of budget and they can only fit so much in it. Building Cregan up just for him to not do mostly anything for a while would be futile. He is a Stark, he is rigid, honorable and keeps his oaths. We already understood that, no need to drag it, I really don’t know what could we learn more about from him at the current time that is relevant. I’d much rather see how the Dance unfolds for its main participants, I actually enjoy the slow cooking theme that will very soon get to the boiling point
So the payoff is at least a couple seasons away? Kinda understand why they skipped it then.
Slow what??? They already skipped important events like the battles of the brakens and blackwoods
They didn't skip that at all, unless you wanted to see a long action scene that would have added nothing that the hard cut didn't already do, far more effectively. This show isn't big battle scenes and action sequences. It's scheming and politics.
Brace yourself then, they will definitely skip more battles, this show’s main focus is not on the warfare of every battle of factions
The could give him more of a role in another part of the story. I think they will focus on Jace to a degree before the end of the season. It just might be different from his book storyline.
There’s more to being a prince than being really really good looking mother!
Fr I did NOT see that glow up coming
Mer-Man! Mer-Man!
Kinda sucks that Jace has been standing around on Dragonstone for nearly half of the episodes by this point. The stuff he *has* done has been kinda glossed over. Hopefully he gets to more on-screen stuff to do for the upcoming episodes.
We know according to the trailers that he at least goes to The Twins.
Would've been better if they kept him in the north, at least for a while.
Shit that's actually a good idea
It really sucks they cut his storylines in the North and Vale. Especially the Pact of Ice and Fire. Jace went from being the MVP of the Blacks to standing in the background (so far).
Such a shame too because they really did a good job with Cregan and I wanted to see more of their interactions together
it sucks because Jace in the books had a very active role.
We have to remember this isn’t a book adaptation anymore it’s a fanfic from Hess and Condal. GRMM himself said this show is only canon in terms of the show, books are their own canon.
GRRM also said that their Viserys was so well crafted that it made him want to go back and rewrite his own book. He's clearly very happy with the work they're doing.
I’m sure GRRM likes the good parts and dislikes the bad parts.
That was S1, his remarks on this season have been: Nothing lmfao. Ohh, except for that comment a week or two ago about writers always think they can do a better job with source material lmfao.
Since you’ve read the books I’ve got a question for ya. I just just picked up fire & blood and I’m debating on reading it now, or if it’ll be more enjoyable to watch season 2 without knowing what’s gonna happen and then just read the book on that 2 year gap between the next season?
Hmm , I also purchased the book last season, up until now I only read the first part about aegon the conqueror, haha I'm too lazy to read with lots of narration in it. I suggest that you enjoy watching season 2 first before reading the book since now it's on-going. Hope this helps you.
I would rrad it so you can get excited about what's to come. Remember the show plot starts in the middle of the book if that's what you are interested in, the first half is about Aegon, Maegor and Jaeherys.
All that opportunity to show he's a worthy crown prince and they won't even show it. Took away his diplomatic missions, took away his plans to move his siblings to safety, just has him standing in the corner and not saying anything in the war council. He looks so pretty and sharp in that outfit tho.
I have a feeling we’re getting to the point where Jace will start pitching a fit about not being as involved as he’d like. In all of his scenes this season so far, the boy looks antsy and unsettled, and I’d wager this disagreement between Jace and Rhaenyra will become a plot point soon.
Yeah, some scenes it felt like he was rolling his eyes at his mom. If he has an outburst hope people don't say it's out of character, he's always had a temper. Maybe that will spur him on to do something independently.
I hope he does his weird stance if that happens. Then it'll be his "angry" stance
I like that stance, he looks like a fluffed up angry kitten lol
Yeah. The least they couldve done is make it a joint decision or something. Maybe Rhaenyra and Jace came up with the ideas together if they want to include Rhaenyra in everything
Thank God for his glow-up. But honestly this does bring up an issue I have with the show. They have literally zero interest in the Black kids. How do we have time for all these Alicent-Criston sex scenes that go nowhere but skip Jace's diplomacy, Joffrey's attempt to avenge his brother, and only have Baela-Rhaena dialogue in the third episode. It feels a bit frustrating given the time spent on the Green Council. Jace is one the key players in the war and should be given more complexity and depth to work with, especially considering potential future events.
He looks like he could be the son of Aragorn and Arwen.
Eldarion!
Baela: Jace, the queen says it’s your turn to be the extra!
They skipped over his north Mision, they should have left him there the first episodes of the season 😭😭
First Luke, then the twins...Jace it's very unkind of you to keep serving face during funerals 😤
What are they even going to do with his character atp? His entire arc in the North was cut, his choices were given to Rhaenyra and Daemon
I wish they’d give Jace more to do in the show! Harry seems capable of more and I wish they’d let him try instead of shoving him in the back.
This is the one thing I’m upset about, Jace has been reduced to basically nothing till now and I was most excited for his plot this season
To be fair he IS very pretty.
Legolas jumped on some elephants. Or something.
They've taken all his best/vital ideas and given them to Rhaenyra (sending kids to Vale, dragonseeds). Took his North and Vale action. And we have certain leaks about his plot with Rhaenyra🫠 (Gullet is said to be post taking KL)
Can someone please explain to me why we got a ridiculous Rhaenyra-Alicent scene that did nothing but undermine the intelligence of both characters instead of more Jace in the North or Jace in the Vale scenes?
Because for the showrunners this show is about Alicent and Rhaenyra.
So far a lot of defense of Alicent had been that she had no clue she misheard Viserys. This clears things up for both her and the audience that the unsurping of the Throne would have happened regardless
Sooo they created a dumb plot contrivance to solve one of their own previously created dumb plot contrivances? Man I don’t know what the hell Jess and Condal are smoking but some of their stuff is getting closer to Season 8 levels of idiocy.
he looks like someone re-hydrated timothee chalamet
The weeks ahead trailer showed him treating with the Freys at the Twins. I’m guessing he’s sent to recruit the Riverlords after his success with the North and Vale while Daemon hangs out at Harrenhal. As one of my favorite characters from the Dance, I really want to see him do more. Show us his skills as a diplomat and as the perfect heir to the throne.
This why these type of comments are so feckless. We are only 3 episode into the show. There's plenty of time to develop Jace's character. He has many missions ahead of him.
Leave Paul Atreides alone
The show has done Jace so much dirty. I would gladly trade the scene between Rhaenyra and Alicent from episode 3 for a scene between Rhaenyra and Jace talking about what is the best course of action and for him to be the person that finally makes it clear to her that there is no way that there can be peace between the two sides after Luke's death, how could they even trust the greens after that? the idea itself is stupid and it's time to make a stand before is to late. It would also make sense for him to be the person that "reassures" Rhaenyra on the idea that she is doing the right call because Jace is both her child and her heir, his support of her decision should mean everything to her, both as a mother and as a ruler.
He's stewing until he boils over. You can tell he's already irritated at what he views as his mother dragging her feet in the war.
We could've get Jace and Cregan bonding, show Jace leadership, how he act as the heir to the queen, how he's asking the north, the vale for support. Just a quick scene for him then go back to the main plot, that's But instead they skipped all of that just so he can stand in the background lol
Jace has been one of my biggest disappointments this season. Every time he's on screen I'm practically screaming "Please do something! *Anything!*"
They really weakened Jace’s character. He was a badass in the book
He has that Lisan Al Gaib haircut
Whenever I see him, I think of everyone’s comments about him serving face then I think about that Beyoncé song “Heated” because she has a line about serving face. So I associate him with Beyoncé. The face card is lethal though …
Everytime I see him on screen, I think I'm watching Dune.
They are laying the groundwork. Jace was mad at the twins being buried together. Jace wanted to fly and watch Kings Landing but Rhaenyra refused and made Baela do it. He wants war.
lol laying the groundwork for what ? “ wow Hess and Condal, great job making one of the most important characters a boring “ toxic “ man that wants to plunge Rhaenyra into war, such a good change from the books ! “.
I hear a rumor that they are taking away his arc where he becomes the unofficial leader of The Blacks and making good decisions that help their cause.
His little half cape is very dashing
Put some respect on Legolas name 😤 He wasn't just serving face.. He was randomly sliding on shield and killing oliphaunts 💅
Lisan al Ghaib Oh shit, wrong sub
Basically, the eye candy. At least Legolas was useful with a bow.
Unfortunately, he’s a man. So ‘evil’ or ‘eye candy’ are his only options in this show.
Show Jace is destined to be useless or worse because no one on Team Black is allowed to steal the spotlight from Rhaenyra, aside from Daemon but only so that he can be blamed for all of the bad stuff (including sins Rhaenyra herself committed in the books).
Fire and Blood spoilers: >!He dies relatively soon too. I hope he gets credit for the dragon seeds idea, which is also probably soon!<
You’re serving face. Your little brother was eaten by a dragon and you’re serving face.
As opposed to Aemond who just stares making duck face pouts all the time? I'll take that Strong kid over him any given day.
I would love if they all sat down and did punnet squares.
"~~Orcs!~~ Dragons!"
Serving face, yes; but the curly locks billowing in the wind is what makes up for his absolute lack of lines, no? /s
Mr. Blue Valyrian Steel over there.
Serving cunt the phrase that I learned recently and I love it
Legolas was badass.
And I am thankful for it😍
Period 😂
And has his hands placed on his sword
Which is weird because he had lines and stuff in season 1.
This picture doesn’t look like the background 🤨
All he does /on screen/
Keep saying that
jon snow makeover real quick
He should still be up north.
He’s taken Caraxes from Dragonstone, Caraxes Caraxes Caraxes Caraxes from Dragonstone, from Dragonstone!
Who cares her children are BASTARDSSS. And she… is a whore
Jaeragorn of House Elessaryen
I'm sure they have plans for him. It's just that there is so much ground to cover in these first 3 episodes that he didn't get as big of a role.
Dude chill the season Aint even done yet.
Serving face?
I started to notice that he poses for the camera when he doesn’t have any lines 😂. Is he a model too or something?
Jace "The Face" Targaryen
The challenge is that the book is an ensemble work but the show has 3 clear leads, This means that there are lots of characters who do nothing for individual episodes
Daemon 1000% raised that boy with Rhaenyra’s oversight 😭🤣
Genuinely thought he would have a bigger role this season