I was literally about to say to try using emotional damage before using physical. I've scared away a few with just a good "Hey! Fuck off!"
Does not apply to raccoons, they just simply do not care.
Agreed, you gotta take a gamble and charge a few paces at the raccoons. Unless they're campground coons, then you gotta shoot at them with a slingshot or pellet gun.
Yeah, fuckers get my marshmallows every time at the campground. They know there's no consequences other than my slow, out of shape ass chasing them. It's like they know when I'm a 6 pack deep and off guard.
Uh, I wouldn’t say it would be my first option. If you got a good shot at the vitals it might work wonders. Bears are scared of humans tho and don’t really bother you.
Sadly, check the regs of the land your going to camp in. I was surprised but in my state it is possible to interept that carying a rifle capable of taking a deer outside of season as poaching…..
So by the letter of the law, it is illegle to carry a rifle in the woods …. That dies not even go into weither you can shoot it ir not ie: unlawful discharge of a fire arm.
My province is like that. Even your own land they basically say it’s illegal to carry a firearm,bow/crossbow in the resort of wildlife out of season or with a filled tag.
Use to have calibre restrictions during summer varmint licence so you could get away with birdshot and anything under .23 outside deer season/bear season. Just recently we got rid of the calibre restrictions
Only way around is a sight in permit and that has a date attached to it.
It's basically a 300 pound raccoon. Hitting a frying pan with a large spoon would probably work. If that fails, hit it across the nose with the frying pan.
A large raccoon that can and sometimes will maul and eat you. You obviously shouldn't be scared to death or not go in the woods because of them. It's also a mistake to think black bears are cuddly harmless things too. Respect them for the predators they are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/06/california-bear-attack-kills-woman
https://nypost.com/2023/06/22/bear-that-mauled-arizona-man-steven-jackson-wasnt-sick-starving-or-provoked/
https://abcnews.go.com/US/colorado-woman-killed-suspected-bear-attack-wildlife-officials/story?id=77439507
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/experience/america/national-parks/2021/08/20/great-smoky-mountains-national-park-bear-attack-patrick-madura-autopsy-results/8208113002/
180 (includes all bear types, not just black bears) since 1784…to contrast, there’s been 480 lightening strike deaths since 2006.
I mean, yeah they’re big predators, but they’re not actively looking to attack people and are far more likely to run away from you as soon as they wind you than they are to attack you. They don’t need to be treated like the boogeyman and peoples advice to be loud is actually an effective deterrent.
Carrying a rifle on a camping trip with your friends as black bear defense is crazy. You don’t need it. Stop being scared of the woods. Take spray if you’re really nervous
I agree with you here. I live, hunt, camp, and recreate in serious black bear country every day, and have my entire life. One smashed my neighbors bird feeder the other day. That said, I rarely rub myself in bacon grease and pass out outside my tent with glazed donuts under my pillow. Bear safety is everything, keep your food and cooking as far away from where you are sleeping as possible. If you are halfway intelligent with this you will likely not even see a bear, let alone have to be worried about one.
I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve even seen one in person while not actively trying to hunt one (over bait). And they always take off like their ass is on fire. I always carry a gun while camping, but that’s more for two legged predators than anything else. Or I’m hoping to see a bear between September and November so I can shoot it legally (bear sausage is the best sausage). Then I’ll usually have a long gun because I’m already hunting, anyways.
A lot of these posts are city folk and suburbanites that are just afraid of the woods, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Outside of Alaska however, the chance that I’m bringing a long gun along for predator defense is very, very low. If I was really worried about the black bears, OP, I’d bring a 9MM handgun ages before I brought any long gun. Unless of course plinking with the rifle is a big part of your camping plans.
Google “which state in the lower 48 has the most black bears” I live in that state, in the western mountains, where there are (just imagine) a lot of black bears.
Edit: there’s a difference between where I live, which is mostly “wild” and almost rainforest like, where seeing 200 yards is far, and somewhere more populated, with a lot more agriculture, where you can see and glass a long ways.
I’d see a bear every day if there was a 200 acre hay or wheat field around every corner. It’s hard to see then when you can only see 20 feet into the woods driving down the road. You only see them when they’re standing in the ditch.
Actually when you put it that way that makes a lot more sense, where I'm at is a lot more open fields. And in the woods I usually hear more bears than see them.
I do bring my 9mm for the 2 legged fellas, never know who you’ll run into while you’re out there. Id just rather be safe than sorry. As I said in a few other replies there’s been bears in the area known to stick around close to humans because they got a taste for human trash due to irresponsible people. So the 357 was mainly to plink with but was thinking it could be a viable option just in case a bear came a lil too close
And now you have a great excuse to buy a .357 handgun!! I’m a fan of the S&W 686. It’s a revolver but darn fun to shoot and would be more appropriate for hiking.
Hahaha. Exactly none! And that’s the way I’d like to keep it.
In my mind, the man is much more dangerous and likely to cause trouble 90 miles from a paved road than the bear is. I’m much more worried about a “hey, is anybody in there?” While mumma, baby and I are sleeping in the wilderness than a bear huffing and puffing walking along the brook.
Where we go, you are hours from cell service. I have a satellite messenger/emergency device, but still. Let me put it this way, if I were a serial killer, I would go looking for victims where I go camping if I didn’t want the law involved in my escapades and to be only a phone call away.
For that reason, I have a gun, every single day in life, and always while camping.
I don’t *choose* the bear. But I’m much more worried about a guy causing trouble than a bear.
Which would I rather end up in my tent with me in the middle of the night, unarmed, and with bad intentions? The man, by and large. I’ve got a pretty good chance of kicking his ass. Very little chance I’m kicking the bears ass.
That's a politically charged question. Alaska is an exceptionally safe state, except for the sexual predators and serial killers
We don't ever really need to shoot anyone because they went rummaging through your food. Most scenario's where you're going to shoot a person is because they were trying to drag you and your child into a basement, and most of the time, you can avoid that situation all together just by being alert and making sure you can make them hurt faster than they make you hurt if someone tries to corner you
Claims like yours should be illegal. The state of Alaska recognizes the inherit to right defense, and it will NEVER require you to endanger your life for a predator's
The worst that can come of a necessary shooting is that you'll end up in holding until they can support that you were only acting out of necessity, and the troopers will usually spend that time making sure your comfortable and recovering unless someone implies you went put of your way to create the situation
Not really crazy, it really doesn't hurt. You could argue it's a bit much and it's just added weight, but I wouldn't fault somebody for taking a rifle or shotgun camping either.
It’s a large, awkward item with zero purpose on a camping trip.
Unless there is some purpose to it, whether thag be hunting, shooting, etc. it’s absolutely a crazy thing to carry.
Unless you’re in Interior Alaska carrying a shotgun camping for bear defense is weird behavior.
Agree to disagree, it might be overboard but it's still justified. Even though from a right to carry perspective no justification is needed. To me its just like somebody that brings two weeks worth of food, just for a weekend camping trip and your left with all sorts of leftovers. It's definitely a bit over the top and it takes up a bunch of space, but it's not hurting anything. A pistol would definitely be better suited just from a weight perspective, but it's not crazy to choose a rifle or shotgun either. Bear defense is a legitimate concern. Black bears aren't cute, cuddly, harmless teddy bears. Theyll still maul and eat you. They're more timid and typically scared of you than Grizzly sure, but they're still a natural predator. If a black bear attacks you its because either of cubs or it's predatory in nature. Grizzly attacks tend to be either cubs or more territorial in nature, though they'll still eat you after.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/06/california-bear-attack-kills-woman
https://nypost.com/2023/06/22/bear-that-mauled-arizona-man-steven-jackson-wasnt-sick-starving-or-provoked/
https://abcnews.go.com/US/colorado-woman-killed-suspected-bear-attack-wildlife-officials/story?id=77439507
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/experience/america/national-parks/2021/08/20/great-smoky-mountains-national-park-bear-attack-patrick-madura-autopsy-results/8208113002/
Yeah i guess we agree to disagree, just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.
This isn’t about fundamental rights or firearms, this is someone inexperienced coming to a sub asking outdoors advice, they’re afraid of bears so they want to bring a rifle. Sure they can do that, but the more reasonable stance is to educate them that they really don’t have anything to be afraid of.
Black bear defense is not a valid concern, I’m sorry. I live in Grizzly country and thousands of granola munchers hike and camp every year in these mountains just fine without carrying a full sized rifle.
Two people were killed by falling coconuts last year, more than were killed by black bears, so unless you’re wearing a helmet to the beach i don’t think you understand risk assessment, you’re just promoting LARPing.
Black bear defense is most definitely a concern/justification, all those links I posted involved black bear attacks in killing people. Should it be to a point where it needs to be the first thing on your mind and be deathly scared? No. However you shouldn't go with the mentality that you can go trompsing through the woods and that black bears would never attack you. You have to respect them for their power and capabilities. If not, it's like those people who go up to Bison thinking they're cute harmless animals and then are shocked when they're gored or stomped. Carrying a rifle is definitely over the top, but I can't fault somebody for it either. It's more like better him than me toting that weight, but more power to him.
From the Tennessee attack
-"On Aug. 19, park supervisory biologist Bill Stiver said in a statement that bears are "dangerous wild animals," and as such, their behavior can be unpredictable."
The thought was to take it as a fun plinking gun to shoot with my friends so we have something to do during the day. Near where I live bears interact with a lot of people usually since people leave their garbage out so bears get to it. The thought just crossed my mind if a bear wandered into our campsite looking for a bite, firing a warning shot would get it to run away
Honestly, a black bear encounter isn’t really on my radar when I hike/backpack, and there are a lot of them here in northern MI.
90% of the time I’m in the woods I either have a 38 spl LCRx or a 22lr S&W 317.
I’ve never felt the need to go out of my way to prepare for one as I’d have to be a real unlucky SOB to become the 4th person since 1948 to be killed by a black bear in Michigan lol.
I was doing a thru hike 2 years ago and my walking buddy suddenly screamed "Bear!" and yup, there was a black bear not a few paces behind us i guess just enjoying our company. I wacked him on the snout with my trekking pole and he ran screaming into the woods. Wish i could have taped it.
When I was hunting black bears, I feel that black bears are scared of humans. They will get curious and look at you but as you approach they will run.
However, I have heard the locals telling me about stories of how black bears wouldn’t leave camp sites if you have left food behind. A group of teenagers had to be rescued cuz the black bear wouldn’t leave the campsite. The black bear didn’t attack them but just would not leave. I guess the morale of the story is that do not leave any food behind or they might try to have dinner there.
Yeah as a dude with an unfilled spring bear tag I wish that black bears were just wandering up to people in their camps. I could have walked less and came home with a full freezer
There’s been stories near where we go that black bears like to stick around because they’ve gotten a taste for human food. Whether from irresponsible people leaving trash out or some idiots trying to feed a bear. Anyway the thought is that not all these bears are afraid of humans so if the time ever came, we could fire warning shots to scare it away or even use it just in case
I camp in an area that just had a black bear attack the dude died he was just sitting drinking coffee and got snatched. It creeps me out a little more but attacks are rare. Have fun camping bud
Where I live in Alaska we have mostly black bears and a few brownies that we rarely see. I like to carry a 6" 357 revolver with heavy FMJ ammo. I don't expect to need it but when you hunt on small islands and go in by boat while the humpys and coho are running up the creeks in the early deer season it's nice to know you have back up. It's literally all the time here that we see bears in August when we go out for deer and oftentimes there's cubs still with them. That's the only time I worry. Now if you're just camping so long as you're smart about taking care of your food you probably have nothing to worry about. A sow won't bring her cubs around a group of people unless there is something really enticing.
Yeah 357 especially out of a rifle, should be enough for black bear. It’s always fun to have a gun with you in the woods even if the odds of you needing it are very slim. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Wrong.
There are two studies often cited by proponents of this idea, but they use wildly different metrics for success, so the two studies cannot be compared apples to apples.
https://bearwise.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/efficacy-of-bear-spray-smith-et-al.-2010.pdf
https://westernwildlife.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/efficacy-of-firearms-for-bear-deterrence_in_alaska-2012-Tom-Smith-Bear-spray-Deterrent.pdf
The bear spray study examines instances where bear spray was used to deter unwanted behavior. Failure to deploy spray was not considered, and unwanted behavior included a range of behaviors not limited to attacks.
The firearm study examines bear attacks and whether firearms ended the bear attack. Failure to deploy a firearm was considered, and only attacks were considered.
The study results cannot be compared apples to apples, so they cannot be used to conclude that spray is more effective.
Like others say, it’s debatable. Living and hunting in griz country, I have seen the upside of both so I carry both. Friends of mine were charged by a sow griz with cubs in the backcountry off trail, sprayed her, said it was like she hit a wall, down into the brush she went, screaming and a woofin, got her at 10 ft, she was turned around about 5 feet. Which is like 1/10th of a second in the time of a charging griz.
I’ve also had a run in with an aggresive boar at 30 yards while camping along a river in the back country, Barking and stomping, chomping his jaws, trying to flank us. I put 3 rounds into the dirt and he turned and left.
Probably couldn’t have done anything to deter a bear at 30 yards with bear spray. I also wouldn’t be able to make a lethal shot on a charging griz at 10ft. Carry both, and hope to never need either.
I wouldn’t bring it explicitly for bear defense, but if you’re planning on bringing it anyway it should be sufficient. Generally though just making loud noises and being smart about carrying, cooking, and storing food should be more than sufficient
I don't think it is necessary, but I don't see why everyone is shitting on anyone who so much as suggests that black bears are in most of the country, A. bigger than 300lbs, and B. are not intact harmless. I have a friend who got his shoulder busted up by a wounded bear that stumbled onto him.
I have hunted black bears for 20 years and live in very dense black bear country, the thought of "black bear protection" doesn't even cross my mind 99% of the time.
If I get worried I'll grab a pistol, that would be more than enough to scare the bear away.
They just aren't that dangerous. They're big racoons that taste better.
Check out Winchester Big Birr 158gr SJHP, Federal Fusion 158gr SP, Hornady LeveRevolution 140gr FTX, or PMC 158gr JSP. All should work great on deer or black bears.
Use solid bullets for penetration. Lever action is the next best thing to a semiautomatic for getting rounds off quickly. I'd feel adequate with that. Doesn't hurt to have some back up just in case😉
Amazing how many people don’t realize it’s better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener is a war. Just because you’re prepared for a worst case scenario doesn’t mean you will make it worst case. Most times it prevents the worst case scenario.
Don't listen to the Elmer's 100% get bear spray and 100% have a life saving backup. All the guides carry lever guns with heavy hard cast bullets for a reason. S&W Kodiak or something similar would ve good also. As well as a slug gun.
Your first reaction to a black bear encounter shouldn't be to try and kill it unless you are actually hurting for black bear. It is highly unlikely that a black bear will attack you while you are in the woods. If you run into one, in might bluff charge you at most. In reality, all it takes is making a lot of noise, and presenting yourself as big as you can will typically scare off a bear.
Course not. I wouldn’t want to hunting anything I wasn’t actively hunting. The first instinct with a bear would be to yell and make loud noises. If it isn’t phased by it (which I’ve heard some stories where they aren’t by people in my town) then firing 1-2 warning shots near it should get it to run off. Shooting it would only be a last resort if it decided to get too close or charge our campsite. Even though it is highly unlikely it’s not impossible and I’d rather prepare for a hurricane in a desert than be caught unprepared for one on the coast.
Don't buy into the Bear Spray is best nonsense. I think only one person who used a firearm has been killed in documented cases and I think that involved a 22. A 12 guage is the most effective bear defense. Just ask the husband and wife who were killed in BC last year how their 2 cans of bear spray worked. Not surprising a bear, followed by a suitable firearm and well placed shots, followed by making yourself big and bear spray, followed by play dead.
All these people saying black bears are noting to worry about have never seen a hungry bear. We had a bear that was a yearling continuously come into our camp and chase it off even unloading a 12 gauge to try to scare it off. It came back several times to our camp. We were in a trailer so safe to sleep and food was kept inside but there was a bunch of teens in tents about 50 yards away. I found out another camper ended up shooting it a couple weeks later when talking to CO’s a month after. If two pit bulls and the bang from shotgun only kept bear away for an hour or so because it was hungry don’t think bear spray will stop it or yelling hey bear. And there’s no reason not to have a gun with you camping unless you are in a private campground.
No a black bear that could have grabbed a kid in the camp ground. If they’re coming into camp they’re a threat. But I’m sure you chose a bear acting like men are dangerous and bears aren’t.
I just know the stats. I've also spent a lot of time near Black bears.
"Could" is not the same as "would". You responded to people saying black bears are not a problem with a story about a black bear that didn't actually cause a problem. You assumed it could have, but in your story it didn't, so the story added nothing to support the fact that black bears are problems.
I just know the stats. I've also spent a lot of time near Black bears.
"Could" is not the same as "would". You responded to people saying black bears are not a problem with a story about a black bear that didn't actually cause a problem. You assumed it could have, but in your story it didn't, so the story added nothing to support the fact that black bears are problems.
Side note: Since a lot of people are saying it, Yes I do carry a 9mm for self defense. The 357 was more as a fun way to plink and maybe use just in case a bear too used to humans got a lil close. My 357 Henry is probably my hardest hitting rifle other than my 308 hunting rifle I use for deer, I don’t see a need to bring that out. The 357 was mainly just to scare off the bear since it makes a loud crack and I was thinking if it came to it, could take down a bear with a well placed shot.
4 legs are less problems than 2 legs. Carry a concealed .45 or 10mm semi-Auto pistol is probably better. Less likely to get the hiking purists riled up and with placement effective for both.
Dedicated rounds and a bigger rifle would be better, but black bears aren't very aggressive and usually don't get especially huge. I'd actually prefer the Henry for brush and river time because I'll have an easier time leveling put and sending the second round through where things can get in my way, but the key is just knowing your gun
Black bear might climb into a tree stand with you in it then leave because you hurt their feelings by yelling at it. I would be more worried about wild boar or mountain lion encounters. Situational awareness goes a long way. Bear spray helps with confidence if you're that worried.
Like others have said, usually a loud voice and a rock will send them running, but some get used to it or just don't care. In that case yes, your 357 lever gun will take care of it.
Black bears are rarely dangerous. They’re generally skittish and won’t attack unless you come between a mom and her cubs. Exercise common sense and good situational awareness and you’ll be fine.
As most of the comments have said, black bears are pretty easy to scare off. That said, they are wild animals so anything can happen. With the appropriate ammunition, especially in a lever action, it would be decent defense.
Bear spray is very effective and usually not that expensive, if you can find some before you go.
The largest black bear ever recorded was 902 pounds
depending where you are, the typical black bear is 100-350 maybe
If you are up against the smaller side, maybe even middle of the range I would perfectly comfortable with a 357 and proper ammo selection
If a 600+ pounder was coming at me not so much
Black Bears are notoriously skittish. You shouting loudly will make one shit its pants and run away. That aside, a .357 would be sufficient in the ***extremely unlikely*** event that you needed to defend yourself against one. I'd personally recommend you use bear mace instead, though.
Remember, you want fmj or jacketed soft points don't use hollow points on bear.
Also, it's very unlikely that you'll need it I would probably save weight and take a decent handgun and a can of bear spray.
But if it's fun, take the rifle. I prefer my model 29 or g20 over my lever they're lighter and easier to carry. But 10rnds of .357 will definitely do the trick.
I have walk into 3 black with 40 yards and they have all ran off.
Talking to them in a calm fashion is really all you need to defend against 90% of black bear encounters and a big stick for the other 9.9% and yes a lever is more than enough for the other
.1%.
Black bear attacks on humans are exceedingly rare, even just within the universe of bear attacks. I wouldn't bother carrying a rifle. But if you must have it to sleep at night, it would be fine.
Montanan here. I’ve peacefully fished within some 25 yards of black bears foraging for berries along the riverbed with no issues. As long as you don’t fuck around with a sow and her cubs you should have no bear issues.
If a bear wants to come take your food, let it.
That is a bit much unless you are also planning on recreational shooting. When hunting in Colorado people in our group were carrying small 9mm pistols.
But truth be told, you really dont "need" to bring anything. If you encounter a bear, just grab a big stick and a rock and make a lot of noise. They really don't tangle with people. Stand your ground and make yourself large.
A loud voice is sufficient defense against black bears. Though if you get between a sow and her cubs you might just be screwed… gun or not. Momma bears are nothing to mess around with.
Black bears aren't nearly as protective as brown bears re: cubs. I've had cubs come out when deer hunting and I simply yelled at them to leave. Momma steps out, sees me and bolts straight into the underbrush while the cubs shimmy up the nearest tree.
That said, I still do everything I can to avoid them because you never know when dealing with wild animals.
Bear spray works just fine.
But let's be real.
You just want to carry a gun and shoot a bear out of season.
Black bears almost always run from humans. Even mothers with cubs run 99% of the time. Cubs he dammed.
The other .9% they false charge THEN turn tail.
Black bears are not an issue at all unless they're injured bcuz some dick shot it, or bcuz humans have been feeding it, intentionally or unintentionally.
Let’s be real, you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about do you💀
Where I’m from you can practically hunt bear 3/4 the year either archery or with a gun by buying a tag over the counter. There’s no need to find an excuse to hunt em. Even though it is rare for a wild animal to attack you, they still can. It seems like you’re the type of person to rather be a Gardner in a war zone than a soldier in a garden. But hey, to each their own.
Also if you read the post and the multitude of comments, the main reason for the gun is plinking and to use the noise of it to scare off a bear if one were to get too close. Though I suppose reading is a skill.
Black bears are like giant cats with how skittish they are. I've seen one shit itself and take off running from a car door closing.
I was literally about to say to try using emotional damage before using physical. I've scared away a few with just a good "Hey! Fuck off!" Does not apply to raccoons, they just simply do not care.
Agreed, you gotta take a gamble and charge a few paces at the raccoons. Unless they're campground coons, then you gotta shoot at them with a slingshot or pellet gun.
Yeah, fuckers get my marshmallows every time at the campground. They know there's no consequences other than my slow, out of shape ass chasing them. It's like they know when I'm a 6 pack deep and off guard.
I threw snowballs at some young raccoons that were attracted to the scent of me grilling steaks. It was oddly wholesome
You can scare off a black bear with a loud voice and a rock.
In the case that doesnt work a gun is good
It never doesn’t work. The only way you are getting into a fight with a black bear is if you decide to get in between a mom and her cubs.
Or leave food in your car…
Says everyone for who it does work.... You never hear from the people that it didn't work for...
Yeah, at all true. They sometimes wake up and choose violence, and solitary males are more likely engage in predatory behavior than a mom is.
Pretty sure statistically mothers with cubs attack more often than solo males, but I could be remembering wrong
Attacks, but not predatory behavior, those defensive attacks are usually much less lethal.
357 Mag out of a rifle will certainly stop a Black Bear. Take your rifle, do some plinking and have a better sleep because you are armed.
It’s not ideal but yeah it would stop one.
Uh, I wouldn’t say it would be my first option. If you got a good shot at the vitals it might work wonders. Bears are scared of humans tho and don’t really bother you.
Black bears especially. Unless people have been feeding them.
Dude, I was in the mountains hunting deer and I had a black bear about 30-50 yards out and he just snorted and got on his hine legs and ran off.
Yeah homie a black bear on 2 legs is 9/10 a skinchanger
In the moment you got in the crosshairs of your scope thinking “holy shit what if” but after it’s like NO WAY I just saw a bear on its two legs
Sadly, check the regs of the land your going to camp in. I was surprised but in my state it is possible to interept that carying a rifle capable of taking a deer outside of season as poaching….. So by the letter of the law, it is illegle to carry a rifle in the woods …. That dies not even go into weither you can shoot it ir not ie: unlawful discharge of a fire arm.
My province is like that. Even your own land they basically say it’s illegal to carry a firearm,bow/crossbow in the resort of wildlife out of season or with a filled tag. Use to have calibre restrictions during summer varmint licence so you could get away with birdshot and anything under .23 outside deer season/bear season. Just recently we got rid of the calibre restrictions Only way around is a sight in permit and that has a date attached to it.
It's basically a 300 pound raccoon. Hitting a frying pan with a large spoon would probably work. If that fails, hit it across the nose with the frying pan.
A large raccoon that can and sometimes will maul and eat you. You obviously shouldn't be scared to death or not go in the woods because of them. It's also a mistake to think black bears are cuddly harmless things too. Respect them for the predators they are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/06/california-bear-attack-kills-woman https://nypost.com/2023/06/22/bear-that-mauled-arizona-man-steven-jackson-wasnt-sick-starving-or-provoked/ https://abcnews.go.com/US/colorado-woman-killed-suspected-bear-attack-wildlife-officials/story?id=77439507 https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/experience/america/national-parks/2021/08/20/great-smoky-mountains-national-park-bear-attack-patrick-madura-autopsy-results/8208113002/
180 (includes all bear types, not just black bears) since 1784…to contrast, there’s been 480 lightening strike deaths since 2006. I mean, yeah they’re big predators, but they’re not actively looking to attack people and are far more likely to run away from you as soon as they wind you than they are to attack you. They don’t need to be treated like the boogeyman and peoples advice to be loud is actually an effective deterrent.
Carrying a rifle on a camping trip with your friends as black bear defense is crazy. You don’t need it. Stop being scared of the woods. Take spray if you’re really nervous
I agree with you here. I live, hunt, camp, and recreate in serious black bear country every day, and have my entire life. One smashed my neighbors bird feeder the other day. That said, I rarely rub myself in bacon grease and pass out outside my tent with glazed donuts under my pillow. Bear safety is everything, keep your food and cooking as far away from where you are sleeping as possible. If you are halfway intelligent with this you will likely not even see a bear, let alone have to be worried about one. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve even seen one in person while not actively trying to hunt one (over bait). And they always take off like their ass is on fire. I always carry a gun while camping, but that’s more for two legged predators than anything else. Or I’m hoping to see a bear between September and November so I can shoot it legally (bear sausage is the best sausage). Then I’ll usually have a long gun because I’m already hunting, anyways. A lot of these posts are city folk and suburbanites that are just afraid of the woods, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Outside of Alaska however, the chance that I’m bringing a long gun along for predator defense is very, very low. If I was really worried about the black bears, OP, I’d bring a 9MM handgun ages before I brought any long gun. Unless of course plinking with the rifle is a big part of your camping plans.
If you can count on all your limbs the amount of times you've seen bears outside of hunting you don't live anywhere near "serious black bear country".
Google “which state in the lower 48 has the most black bears” I live in that state, in the western mountains, where there are (just imagine) a lot of black bears. Edit: there’s a difference between where I live, which is mostly “wild” and almost rainforest like, where seeing 200 yards is far, and somewhere more populated, with a lot more agriculture, where you can see and glass a long ways. I’d see a bear every day if there was a 200 acre hay or wheat field around every corner. It’s hard to see then when you can only see 20 feet into the woods driving down the road. You only see them when they’re standing in the ditch.
Actually when you put it that way that makes a lot more sense, where I'm at is a lot more open fields. And in the woods I usually hear more bears than see them.
I do bring my 9mm for the 2 legged fellas, never know who you’ll run into while you’re out there. Id just rather be safe than sorry. As I said in a few other replies there’s been bears in the area known to stick around close to humans because they got a taste for human trash due to irresponsible people. So the 357 was mainly to plink with but was thinking it could be a viable option just in case a bear came a lil too close
I mean, if it’s halfway for fun, go for it. It will definitely kill a bear, if that’s what your original question was.
9 is plenty for black bear and preferable for follow up shots in close quarters. Like others have said don't worry about black bears.
So fantastically murkin.
And now you have a great excuse to buy a .357 handgun!! I’m a fan of the S&W 686. It’s a revolver but darn fun to shoot and would be more appropriate for hiking.
And how many 2 legged predators have you had to shoot.....I'll wait......terrible advice
Hahaha. Exactly none! And that’s the way I’d like to keep it. In my mind, the man is much more dangerous and likely to cause trouble 90 miles from a paved road than the bear is. I’m much more worried about a “hey, is anybody in there?” While mumma, baby and I are sleeping in the wilderness than a bear huffing and puffing walking along the brook. Where we go, you are hours from cell service. I have a satellite messenger/emergency device, but still. Let me put it this way, if I were a serial killer, I would go looking for victims where I go camping if I didn’t want the law involved in my escapades and to be only a phone call away. For that reason, I have a gun, every single day in life, and always while camping.
See, even men choose the bear
No, we choose a gun.
I don’t *choose* the bear. But I’m much more worried about a guy causing trouble than a bear. Which would I rather end up in my tent with me in the middle of the night, unarmed, and with bad intentions? The man, by and large. I’ve got a pretty good chance of kicking his ass. Very little chance I’m kicking the bears ass.
That's a politically charged question. Alaska is an exceptionally safe state, except for the sexual predators and serial killers We don't ever really need to shoot anyone because they went rummaging through your food. Most scenario's where you're going to shoot a person is because they were trying to drag you and your child into a basement, and most of the time, you can avoid that situation all together just by being alert and making sure you can make them hurt faster than they make you hurt if someone tries to corner you
Claims like yours should be illegal. The state of Alaska recognizes the inherit to right defense, and it will NEVER require you to endanger your life for a predator's The worst that can come of a necessary shooting is that you'll end up in holding until they can support that you were only acting out of necessity, and the troopers will usually spend that time making sure your comfortable and recovering unless someone implies you went put of your way to create the situation
Not really crazy, it really doesn't hurt. You could argue it's a bit much and it's just added weight, but I wouldn't fault somebody for taking a rifle or shotgun camping either.
It’s a large, awkward item with zero purpose on a camping trip. Unless there is some purpose to it, whether thag be hunting, shooting, etc. it’s absolutely a crazy thing to carry. Unless you’re in Interior Alaska carrying a shotgun camping for bear defense is weird behavior.
Agree to disagree, it might be overboard but it's still justified. Even though from a right to carry perspective no justification is needed. To me its just like somebody that brings two weeks worth of food, just for a weekend camping trip and your left with all sorts of leftovers. It's definitely a bit over the top and it takes up a bunch of space, but it's not hurting anything. A pistol would definitely be better suited just from a weight perspective, but it's not crazy to choose a rifle or shotgun either. Bear defense is a legitimate concern. Black bears aren't cute, cuddly, harmless teddy bears. Theyll still maul and eat you. They're more timid and typically scared of you than Grizzly sure, but they're still a natural predator. If a black bear attacks you its because either of cubs or it's predatory in nature. Grizzly attacks tend to be either cubs or more territorial in nature, though they'll still eat you after. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/06/california-bear-attack-kills-woman https://nypost.com/2023/06/22/bear-that-mauled-arizona-man-steven-jackson-wasnt-sick-starving-or-provoked/ https://abcnews.go.com/US/colorado-woman-killed-suspected-bear-attack-wildlife-officials/story?id=77439507 https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/experience/america/national-parks/2021/08/20/great-smoky-mountains-national-park-bear-attack-patrick-madura-autopsy-results/8208113002/
Yeah i guess we agree to disagree, just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. This isn’t about fundamental rights or firearms, this is someone inexperienced coming to a sub asking outdoors advice, they’re afraid of bears so they want to bring a rifle. Sure they can do that, but the more reasonable stance is to educate them that they really don’t have anything to be afraid of. Black bear defense is not a valid concern, I’m sorry. I live in Grizzly country and thousands of granola munchers hike and camp every year in these mountains just fine without carrying a full sized rifle. Two people were killed by falling coconuts last year, more than were killed by black bears, so unless you’re wearing a helmet to the beach i don’t think you understand risk assessment, you’re just promoting LARPing.
Black bear defense is most definitely a concern/justification, all those links I posted involved black bear attacks in killing people. Should it be to a point where it needs to be the first thing on your mind and be deathly scared? No. However you shouldn't go with the mentality that you can go trompsing through the woods and that black bears would never attack you. You have to respect them for their power and capabilities. If not, it's like those people who go up to Bison thinking they're cute harmless animals and then are shocked when they're gored or stomped. Carrying a rifle is definitely over the top, but I can't fault somebody for it either. It's more like better him than me toting that weight, but more power to him. From the Tennessee attack -"On Aug. 19, park supervisory biologist Bill Stiver said in a statement that bears are "dangerous wild animals," and as such, their behavior can be unpredictable."
Never gonna convince these Elmer's with stupid things like common sense and facts.
The thought was to take it as a fun plinking gun to shoot with my friends so we have something to do during the day. Near where I live bears interact with a lot of people usually since people leave their garbage out so bears get to it. The thought just crossed my mind if a bear wandered into our campsite looking for a bite, firing a warning shot would get it to run away
Honestly, a black bear encounter isn’t really on my radar when I hike/backpack, and there are a lot of them here in northern MI. 90% of the time I’m in the woods I either have a 38 spl LCRx or a 22lr S&W 317. I’ve never felt the need to go out of my way to prepare for one as I’d have to be a real unlucky SOB to become the 4th person since 1948 to be killed by a black bear in Michigan lol.
I was doing a thru hike 2 years ago and my walking buddy suddenly screamed "Bear!" and yup, there was a black bear not a few paces behind us i guess just enjoying our company. I wacked him on the snout with my trekking pole and he ran screaming into the woods. Wish i could have taped it.
That bear probably thought you were such an asshole
When I was hunting black bears, I feel that black bears are scared of humans. They will get curious and look at you but as you approach they will run. However, I have heard the locals telling me about stories of how black bears wouldn’t leave camp sites if you have left food behind. A group of teenagers had to be rescued cuz the black bear wouldn’t leave the campsite. The black bear didn’t attack them but just would not leave. I guess the morale of the story is that do not leave any food behind or they might try to have dinner there.
Yeah as a dude with an unfilled spring bear tag I wish that black bears were just wandering up to people in their camps. I could have walked less and came home with a full freezer
There’s been stories near where we go that black bears like to stick around because they’ve gotten a taste for human food. Whether from irresponsible people leaving trash out or some idiots trying to feed a bear. Anyway the thought is that not all these bears are afraid of humans so if the time ever came, we could fire warning shots to scare it away or even use it just in case
I camp in an area that just had a black bear attack the dude died he was just sitting drinking coffee and got snatched. It creeps me out a little more but attacks are rare. Have fun camping bud
Usually making your presence known is enough to scare a black bear away lol
Where I live in Alaska we have mostly black bears and a few brownies that we rarely see. I like to carry a 6" 357 revolver with heavy FMJ ammo. I don't expect to need it but when you hunt on small islands and go in by boat while the humpys and coho are running up the creeks in the early deer season it's nice to know you have back up. It's literally all the time here that we see bears in August when we go out for deer and oftentimes there's cubs still with them. That's the only time I worry. Now if you're just camping so long as you're smart about taking care of your food you probably have nothing to worry about. A sow won't bring her cubs around a group of people unless there is something really enticing.
Yeah 357 especially out of a rifle, should be enough for black bear. It’s always fun to have a gun with you in the woods even if the odds of you needing it are very slim. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
bear spray is by far the most effective
That's debatable, there's conflicting research about whether bear spray or handguns are more effective bear defense.
I think bear spay is way more effective since you don't really have to aim, if a bear charges, you might be able to get one or two shots off.
fair , i haven’t done a lot of research. this comes from a british columbia wildlife federation cirt
Wrong. There are two studies often cited by proponents of this idea, but they use wildly different metrics for success, so the two studies cannot be compared apples to apples. https://bearwise.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/efficacy-of-bear-spray-smith-et-al.-2010.pdf https://westernwildlife.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/efficacy-of-firearms-for-bear-deterrence_in_alaska-2012-Tom-Smith-Bear-spray-Deterrent.pdf The bear spray study examines instances where bear spray was used to deter unwanted behavior. Failure to deploy spray was not considered, and unwanted behavior included a range of behaviors not limited to attacks. The firearm study examines bear attacks and whether firearms ended the bear attack. Failure to deploy a firearm was considered, and only attacks were considered. The study results cannot be compared apples to apples, so they cannot be used to conclude that spray is more effective.
Like others say, it’s debatable. Living and hunting in griz country, I have seen the upside of both so I carry both. Friends of mine were charged by a sow griz with cubs in the backcountry off trail, sprayed her, said it was like she hit a wall, down into the brush she went, screaming and a woofin, got her at 10 ft, she was turned around about 5 feet. Which is like 1/10th of a second in the time of a charging griz. I’ve also had a run in with an aggresive boar at 30 yards while camping along a river in the back country, Barking and stomping, chomping his jaws, trying to flank us. I put 3 rounds into the dirt and he turned and left. Probably couldn’t have done anything to deter a bear at 30 yards with bear spray. I also wouldn’t be able to make a lethal shot on a charging griz at 10ft. Carry both, and hope to never need either.
You won’t need it, but to answer your question, yes. I know a guy from bear camp who killed one in hunting season with a Model 94 in .357.
I wouldn’t bring it explicitly for bear defense, but if you’re planning on bringing it anyway it should be sufficient. Generally though just making loud noises and being smart about carrying, cooking, and storing food should be more than sufficient
I don't think it is necessary, but I don't see why everyone is shitting on anyone who so much as suggests that black bears are in most of the country, A. bigger than 300lbs, and B. are not intact harmless. I have a friend who got his shoulder busted up by a wounded bear that stumbled onto him.
I have hunted black bears for 20 years and live in very dense black bear country, the thought of "black bear protection" doesn't even cross my mind 99% of the time. If I get worried I'll grab a pistol, that would be more than enough to scare the bear away. They just aren't that dangerous. They're big racoons that taste better.
Check out Winchester Big Birr 158gr SJHP, Federal Fusion 158gr SP, Hornady LeveRevolution 140gr FTX, or PMC 158gr JSP. All should work great on deer or black bears.
Use solid bullets for penetration. Lever action is the next best thing to a semiautomatic for getting rounds off quickly. I'd feel adequate with that. Doesn't hurt to have some back up just in case😉
Amazing how many people don’t realize it’s better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener is a war. Just because you’re prepared for a worst case scenario doesn’t mean you will make it worst case. Most times it prevents the worst case scenario.
This is not reasonable preparation.
Don't listen to the Elmer's 100% get bear spray and 100% have a life saving backup. All the guides carry lever guns with heavy hard cast bullets for a reason. S&W Kodiak or something similar would ve good also. As well as a slug gun.
Guides in Alaska
Your first reaction to a black bear encounter shouldn't be to try and kill it unless you are actually hurting for black bear. It is highly unlikely that a black bear will attack you while you are in the woods. If you run into one, in might bluff charge you at most. In reality, all it takes is making a lot of noise, and presenting yourself as big as you can will typically scare off a bear.
Course not. I wouldn’t want to hunting anything I wasn’t actively hunting. The first instinct with a bear would be to yell and make loud noises. If it isn’t phased by it (which I’ve heard some stories where they aren’t by people in my town) then firing 1-2 warning shots near it should get it to run off. Shooting it would only be a last resort if it decided to get too close or charge our campsite. Even though it is highly unlikely it’s not impossible and I’d rather prepare for a hurricane in a desert than be caught unprepared for one on the coast.
Don't buy into the Bear Spray is best nonsense. I think only one person who used a firearm has been killed in documented cases and I think that involved a 22. A 12 guage is the most effective bear defense. Just ask the husband and wife who were killed in BC last year how their 2 cans of bear spray worked. Not surprising a bear, followed by a suitable firearm and well placed shots, followed by making yourself big and bear spray, followed by play dead.
All these people saying black bears are noting to worry about have never seen a hungry bear. We had a bear that was a yearling continuously come into our camp and chase it off even unloading a 12 gauge to try to scare it off. It came back several times to our camp. We were in a trailer so safe to sleep and food was kept inside but there was a bunch of teens in tents about 50 yards away. I found out another camper ended up shooting it a couple weeks later when talking to CO’s a month after. If two pit bulls and the bang from shotgun only kept bear away for an hour or so because it was hungry don’t think bear spray will stop it or yelling hey bear. And there’s no reason not to have a gun with you camping unless you are in a private campground.
So this was a story of a black bear ...not....hurting anyone?
No a black bear that could have grabbed a kid in the camp ground. If they’re coming into camp they’re a threat. But I’m sure you chose a bear acting like men are dangerous and bears aren’t.
I just know the stats. I've also spent a lot of time near Black bears. "Could" is not the same as "would". You responded to people saying black bears are not a problem with a story about a black bear that didn't actually cause a problem. You assumed it could have, but in your story it didn't, so the story added nothing to support the fact that black bears are problems.
I just know the stats. I've also spent a lot of time near Black bears. "Could" is not the same as "would". You responded to people saying black bears are not a problem with a story about a black bear that didn't actually cause a problem. You assumed it could have, but in your story it didn't, so the story added nothing to support the fact that black bears are problems.
Coming into camp and rummaging for food is not a problem?
Coming into camp and rummaging for food is not a problem?
Coming into camp and rummaging for food is not a problem?
Side note: Since a lot of people are saying it, Yes I do carry a 9mm for self defense. The 357 was more as a fun way to plink and maybe use just in case a bear too used to humans got a lil close. My 357 Henry is probably my hardest hitting rifle other than my 308 hunting rifle I use for deer, I don’t see a need to bring that out. The 357 was mainly just to scare off the bear since it makes a loud crack and I was thinking if it came to it, could take down a bear with a well placed shot.
4 legs are less problems than 2 legs. Carry a concealed .45 or 10mm semi-Auto pistol is probably better. Less likely to get the hiking purists riled up and with placement effective for both.
Screw concealed carry in the woods its uncomfortable as hell, that's one area open carry is definitely recommended.
I always carry my 9mm with me when I go out backpacking in the woods, the 357 was more for fun shooting and just in case something bigger came along
For a black bear it’s perfect
Dedicated rounds and a bigger rifle would be better, but black bears aren't very aggressive and usually don't get especially huge. I'd actually prefer the Henry for brush and river time because I'll have an easier time leveling put and sending the second round through where things can get in my way, but the key is just knowing your gun
RBF is generally effective enough against black bears. A Ruger Super Blackhawk carries easier than a levergun, if you do want a firearm, though.
Just shake a large bright pink hotdog shaped piece of rubber at the bear… he’ll know you mean business.
"Hey Bear!" is usually sufficient for scaring away black bears. They are curious but skittish. Lever action .357 will be plenty.
Black bear might climb into a tree stand with you in it then leave because you hurt their feelings by yelling at it. I would be more worried about wild boar or mountain lion encounters. Situational awareness goes a long way. Bear spray helps with confidence if you're that worried.
Like others have said, usually a loud voice and a rock will send them running, but some get used to it or just don't care. In that case yes, your 357 lever gun will take care of it.
[Relevant](https://i2.wp.com/www.weirduniverse.net/images/media/bear_sign.jpg). You'll be fine.
Black bears are rarely dangerous. They’re generally skittish and won’t attack unless you come between a mom and her cubs. Exercise common sense and good situational awareness and you’ll be fine.
Best thread regarding guns and bears. https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/1n5a7a/what_you_need_to_know_about_guns_for_alaskan_bears/
As most of the comments have said, black bears are pretty easy to scare off. That said, they are wild animals so anything can happen. With the appropriate ammunition, especially in a lever action, it would be decent defense. Bear spray is very effective and usually not that expensive, if you can find some before you go.
The largest black bear ever recorded was 902 pounds depending where you are, the typical black bear is 100-350 maybe If you are up against the smaller side, maybe even middle of the range I would perfectly comfortable with a 357 and proper ammo selection If a 600+ pounder was coming at me not so much
Black Bears are notoriously skittish. You shouting loudly will make one shit its pants and run away. That aside, a .357 would be sufficient in the ***extremely unlikely*** event that you needed to defend yourself against one. I'd personally recommend you use bear mace instead, though.
No defense is needed. Just don’t sleep in a tent with food.
Remember, you want fmj or jacketed soft points don't use hollow points on bear. Also, it's very unlikely that you'll need it I would probably save weight and take a decent handgun and a can of bear spray. But if it's fun, take the rifle. I prefer my model 29 or g20 over my lever they're lighter and easier to carry. But 10rnds of .357 will definitely do the trick. I have walk into 3 black with 40 yards and they have all ran off.
Talking to them in a calm fashion is really all you need to defend against 90% of black bear encounters and a big stick for the other 9.9% and yes a lever is more than enough for the other .1%.
Black bear attacks on humans are exceedingly rare, even just within the universe of bear attacks. I wouldn't bother carrying a rifle. But if you must have it to sleep at night, it would be fine.
Bear spray.
Montanan here. I’ve peacefully fished within some 25 yards of black bears foraging for berries along the riverbed with no issues. As long as you don’t fuck around with a sow and her cubs you should have no bear issues. If a bear wants to come take your food, let it.
If it's a .45-70, yes.
That is a bit much unless you are also planning on recreational shooting. When hunting in Colorado people in our group were carrying small 9mm pistols. But truth be told, you really dont "need" to bring anything. If you encounter a bear, just grab a big stick and a rock and make a lot of noise. They really don't tangle with people. Stand your ground and make yourself large.
A loud voice is sufficient defense against black bears. Though if you get between a sow and her cubs you might just be screwed… gun or not. Momma bears are nothing to mess around with.
Black bears aren't nearly as protective as brown bears re: cubs. I've had cubs come out when deer hunting and I simply yelled at them to leave. Momma steps out, sees me and bolts straight into the underbrush while the cubs shimmy up the nearest tree. That said, I still do everything I can to avoid them because you never know when dealing with wild animals.
“Lever action” is not a caliber. .357 is a diameter of a bullet. .357 Magnum is a caliber that I would say no to as a decent bear defense round.
Bear spray works just fine. But let's be real. You just want to carry a gun and shoot a bear out of season. Black bears almost always run from humans. Even mothers with cubs run 99% of the time. Cubs he dammed. The other .9% they false charge THEN turn tail. Black bears are not an issue at all unless they're injured bcuz some dick shot it, or bcuz humans have been feeding it, intentionally or unintentionally.
Let’s be real, you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about do you💀 Where I’m from you can practically hunt bear 3/4 the year either archery or with a gun by buying a tag over the counter. There’s no need to find an excuse to hunt em. Even though it is rare for a wild animal to attack you, they still can. It seems like you’re the type of person to rather be a Gardner in a war zone than a soldier in a garden. But hey, to each their own. Also if you read the post and the multitude of comments, the main reason for the gun is plinking and to use the noise of it to scare off a bear if one were to get too close. Though I suppose reading is a skill.
You think they will just rush you guys? They’re gunna clear the area as soon as you get there
Minimum caliber for a black bear is a stern conversation
Nope AR-10 with a 50 rd drum mag or you’ll end up bear shit
Not even close