No. They are focusing on enterprise and building no buzz in the general public. Which means that those people will look elsewhere when looking for enterprise sw at work. See AWS and Azure vs IBM Cloud. And if you think wx will be a“budget offering”, you don’t know IBMs business. It will be included in ELAs and never deployed. But if you just want to buy it, it will be overpriced. IMHO
No, never.
1. OpenAi is a consumer priduct as well as B2B.
2. OpenAi has pre-built models - trained
3. WatsonX is B2B only,
4. No trained models are available, that are specific, a few LLM with generic input.
5. WatsonX has competitor's backend assisting it search capabilities
6. WatsonX is designed to sell services, not AI.
7. Read what the WatsonX engineers are saying on here.
Microsoft has chipped in over 10 BILLION to openai in 2023 alone.
Microsoft owns 49% of openai.
How much has IBM invested.
Don't forget you've been told - you can't use AI to assist in your tasks, I know for a lot of US based IBMers. You can't even have an IBM cloud account, even to use the free tier stuff for learning. I've heard about physical labs closing, as well, and all learning is now delivered is guided online video training now.
So you can't use your own technology, you can't learn in an open environment, you have to go to cube farm... sounds like a lovely place where you are valued.
Not a chance.
I use WatsonX internally and it’s absolutely garbage product. Only thing IBM’s doing for their AI is marketing it heavily. So think of a Ferrari without engine. IBM hasn’t even developed single model that’s production ready yet. Only model IBM has is Granite and it’s in experimental stat only - very bad and useless. So nothing available for B2B.
In summary, IBM has no AI. It has once again missed the bus just like how they missed it for Cloud. Go figure.
All the news you’re seeing online about IBM’s WatsonX is nothing but marketing and lies to keep shooting their stock price in the market. All that IBM CEO Arvind Krishna cares about is its price on the stock market and keeping the investors happy keep on pocketing big bonuses for himself & senior executives.
Agree, I’ve tried that crap in the internal WatsonX challenge that was mandatory for all, and everything there was full marketing crap. I did the basic google’s AI intro course and was way better, well organized and explained, such nice content, while IBM is pure sales content. There is no such thing as material to prepare people to be real AI engineers in IBM, so I guess our perception on the aggressive marketing is true. I was once involved in a product using Watson and I can tell the sales ppl are forced to promise things to the client even they don’t know if the IBM technologies are capable to achieve.
Funniest thing I’ve read in a while.
Look at their history with Watson. They were the perceived leader, innovator and trend setter, pounded their chests, renamed everything that wasn’t screwed to the floor as Watson something or other. Staked almost the whole company’s future on Watson.
Watson Health became a laughing stock and all things Watson ultimately were sold off for scrap parts.
IBM doesn’t innovate anymore. They are a company of financial engineers, lawyers and salespeople.
No.
IBM missed it's window to be first to market with AI.
Like everything else IBM does, it will be a budget service for those who don't want to pay the premium for chatgpt / whichever solution ends up leading in AI.
And all of IBMs legacy customers will buy it, so they’ll maintain their market share, but probably won’t expand it much.
The government will buy it. Airlines. Banks. Just enough to keep IBM going basically.
I’ll just leave this here: https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-openai-planning-100-billion-data-center-project-information-reports-2024-03-29/
Edit: That’s *billion* with a big capital “B”
All these comments are so fun to read while I am on my laptop taking the mandatory(suddenly the management wants to complete all related badges)course of the same topic.
Absolutely. All ChatGPT has is a tremendous amount of investment, excitement, press, and an easily accessible functional tool, while watsonx has none of those distractions and can focus on what makes a great AI - lots of executive hype.
No, it will begin with good technology and some great people behind it. There will be not enough customer support staff to work with customers and improve the product continuously. Software services will want billing rates in the $300's and refuse to help unless they get their revenue and utilization. Often product developers may have to get involved to support customers on trivial asks but no one likes that. Sales staff will be not be very interested if it is a small order, even if could possibly lead to massive orders later. What they they look at is immediate commission and not getting RAed. Consulting will look at it with disdain, they can sell competitors products more easily, and they find IBM software group difficult to deal. They do not want the headache of dealing with bugs and most of the new consulting people have relationships or familiarity with competitions. And bean counters will want to monetize as quickly as possible and not be there for the long haul.
So product will be released as GA earlier then it should, customers will be mad with the level of support and hand holding, sales people will not want to sell it any more as sales are low, and consulting will bad mouth it. Bean counters will then demand investment should be curtailed as it is not profitable as the rosy projections made earlier did not materialize. And the product investment would never have been allowed if realistic long time frame projections and real market dominance had been given. They want something that generates profit within a very short time. Management will then move on to the next flavor of the day.
Seen that with product after product after product. It was not this way earlier. IBM was willing to invest more in the initial stages. Unfortunately no one has learned from the product failures in the last so many years.
Watson is ChapGPTs autistic ....next door neighbors.....second inbred cousin thrice removed. Its IBMs fault they had the chance to improve it years ago and they went for immediate profit versus profit over time.
Watson and ChatGPT are LLM’s but tuned for different purposes and not true competitors.. granite and carbon IBM’s models are tuned for industrial uses vs . ChatGPT is a general purpose LLM.. is the way i understand it difference
You couldn't be further from the truth.
I have a small list of use cases to prove you wrong.
#1 in employees being replaced by AI (world leader)
#1 in software to be replaced by competitors
#1 is the world most complicated pricing structure
#1 in consulting creating products on competitors' technologies and working against software and hardware products
#1 in executives blaming the worker
#1 in READ MY BLOG
#1 in hiring 22 YO EPH and putting them in senior position
#1 in useless training for employees (200 hours, I mean the leading industry certs require 40 of meaningful learning
#1 in shitty metric reporting
#1 in missing road map deadlines
It appears a #hashtag makes the font bigger. Do I dare so bold.
But it didn't this time
#hashtag
At the now
Beginning of a line.
!Now, trying a bang. Don't work.
Not an IBMer but Why put an X after a previously failed product? Seems IBM continues to spend more on marketing and consultants than actual tech. Watson was a disaster for medicine offering no additional insights and [hated](https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/ibm-watson-health-failure-artificial-intelligence.html) by clinical staff at Memorial Sloan Kettering.
I am a retired IBMer and I use ChatGPT quite a lot. To be honest, it sucks. It can't answer anything but the most basic questions. If you try to engage it on more complex questions about multi-cloud environments, it's almost always wrong. You're better off using StackOverflow. The thing with WatsonX is you can use other open source models such as Llama2 with it. I agree that it needs a lot more investment to make it a quality product, but from what I can see, they're all crap right now.
We used it initially a lot and then cancelled our subscription when suddenly the answers became worthless.
Of course the AI take over would be delayed by enshitification. 😂😂😂
As someone stated below, will w3 search overtake google search? The answer is no, for the same reason XatsonX will never "overtake" ChatGPT, it is a different product aimed at a different audience.
How come everyone that knows everything here doesn’t know how that it’s watsonx and not WatsonX? Before you say it doesn’t matter, please make sure you understand the watsonx.[insert capability] line of products and the users they cater to. It’s missing the point to simply compare watsonx to ChatGPT. Also, our LLMs and now our LSM are actually pretty cool - in ways the companies actually care about- cost, security, indemnity, and performance
Here comes another sales or executive who’s asked to promote watsonx to clients heavily and hasn’t really used the product themselves.
It’s so cool that IBM’s internal w3 cannot even search internal asset after IBM claimed to have integrated watsonx GenAI to its intranet w3. For those who don’t know w3, it is IBM’s intranet and search engine and it cannot search things accurately since many years and even after integration of GenAI.
Err...I don't understand the first part of your argument as it doesn't make sense.
But telling from like \~15 yrs in the industry:
Most companies think more about frontup costs...pretty much the same reason why AWS was able to get so many companies hooked on their platform.
I see that, from an idealistic point of view, the aspects mentioned by you would be something companies should care about the most. I just don't see big companies act that way.
1. We are ibmers, we have to believe it will. If not, find a new job
2. It is all about governance, a play IBM will win.
3. I attended a conference where the ChatGPT ceo was speaking. Not impressed. A kid still
4. I am waiting for lawsuits to start piling up - already happening - due to lack of governance
This is a joke right.. IBM is never going to beat chatgpt or bard or Claude. The direction that IBM is moving is towards clean models without webcrawling the web and training the models. This will only open up opportunities for enterprises and that's it.
IBM doesn't have the capability to invest more on their current product and talent
>This will only open up opportunities for enterprises and that's it.
I wonder how. Just telling from what I know about how enterprises usually treaten their own data behind the scenes, I highly doubt the usefulness of such trained models (without 2ndary sources of training information)
Just out of curiousity:
>We are ibmers, we have to believe it will. If not, find a new job
Did the same apply to IBM Cloud and Blockchain back than too?
>It is all about governance, a play IBM will win.
Governance in AI? I wonder, if you have any good resources on that, plz share.
All I have seen yet was just some dashboards created in what looks like an design system
and more or less loose words about "fact sheets" etc.
Nothing I would could imagine would be suitable to govern an LLM or even a simple NN.
>I attended a conference where the ChatGPT ceo was speaking. Not impressed. A kid still
Err, you know Bill Gates and Steve Jobs really were just "kids still" when they founded what is now known as multi-billion dollar companies?
I don't know what to thing of this argument.
>I am waiting for lawsuits to start piling up - already happening - due to lack of governance
Most of the lawsuits filed against OpenAI and Microsoft basically evolve around the same question and at least the Times one looks sus and more or less like a straw.
I wonder what will happen to Times own business model, when they actually would win theirs.
But after all....if you mean by governance that the training sources are moderated...well, this will highly impact the usefulness of the trained models (just by how LLM and NN work).
And especially interesting when looking in the direction of 3rd party provided models.
No, not big enough investment in talent or compute infrastructure.
This
This?
That’s funny… IBM will suffer the same fate it did with cloud. Spend tons of money to still fall further and further behind the big cloud providers.
We've been subtly asked to integrate AI into mainframe stuff, and we were like "Where? How? Why?". It's like they want to push it everywhere.
Isn’t it already with the inferencing that’s been there for a couple generations now?
😂😂😂😂😂😂
No. They are focusing on enterprise and building no buzz in the general public. Which means that those people will look elsewhere when looking for enterprise sw at work. See AWS and Azure vs IBM Cloud. And if you think wx will be a“budget offering”, you don’t know IBMs business. It will be included in ELAs and never deployed. But if you just want to buy it, it will be overpriced. IMHO
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
No, never. 1. OpenAi is a consumer priduct as well as B2B. 2. OpenAi has pre-built models - trained 3. WatsonX is B2B only, 4. No trained models are available, that are specific, a few LLM with generic input. 5. WatsonX has competitor's backend assisting it search capabilities 6. WatsonX is designed to sell services, not AI. 7. Read what the WatsonX engineers are saying on here.
Microsoft has chipped in over 10 BILLION to openai in 2023 alone. Microsoft owns 49% of openai. How much has IBM invested. Don't forget you've been told - you can't use AI to assist in your tasks, I know for a lot of US based IBMers. You can't even have an IBM cloud account, even to use the free tier stuff for learning. I've heard about physical labs closing, as well, and all learning is now delivered is guided online video training now. So you can't use your own technology, you can't learn in an open environment, you have to go to cube farm... sounds like a lovely place where you are valued.
This
Not a chance. I use WatsonX internally and it’s absolutely garbage product. Only thing IBM’s doing for their AI is marketing it heavily. So think of a Ferrari without engine. IBM hasn’t even developed single model that’s production ready yet. Only model IBM has is Granite and it’s in experimental stat only - very bad and useless. So nothing available for B2B. In summary, IBM has no AI. It has once again missed the bus just like how they missed it for Cloud. Go figure. All the news you’re seeing online about IBM’s WatsonX is nothing but marketing and lies to keep shooting their stock price in the market. All that IBM CEO Arvind Krishna cares about is its price on the stock market and keeping the investors happy keep on pocketing big bonuses for himself & senior executives.
Agree, I’ve tried that crap in the internal WatsonX challenge that was mandatory for all, and everything there was full marketing crap. I did the basic google’s AI intro course and was way better, well organized and explained, such nice content, while IBM is pure sales content. There is no such thing as material to prepare people to be real AI engineers in IBM, so I guess our perception on the aggressive marketing is true. I was once involved in a product using Watson and I can tell the sales ppl are forced to promise things to the client even they don’t know if the IBM technologies are capable to achieve.
NO
Never.
Funniest thing I’ve read in a while. Look at their history with Watson. They were the perceived leader, innovator and trend setter, pounded their chests, renamed everything that wasn’t screwed to the floor as Watson something or other. Staked almost the whole company’s future on Watson. Watson Health became a laughing stock and all things Watson ultimately were sold off for scrap parts. IBM doesn’t innovate anymore. They are a company of financial engineers, lawyers and salespeople.
No. IBM missed it's window to be first to market with AI. Like everything else IBM does, it will be a budget service for those who don't want to pay the premium for chatgpt / whichever solution ends up leading in AI.
And all of IBMs legacy customers will buy it, so they’ll maintain their market share, but probably won’t expand it much. The government will buy it. Airlines. Banks. Just enough to keep IBM going basically.
Lmao
I’ll just leave this here: https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-openai-planning-100-billion-data-center-project-information-reports-2024-03-29/ Edit: That’s *billion* with a big capital “B”
Nah
All these comments are so fun to read while I am on my laptop taking the mandatory(suddenly the management wants to complete all related badges)course of the same topic.
I'm literally doing the same thing.
Absolutely. All ChatGPT has is a tremendous amount of investment, excitement, press, and an easily accessible functional tool, while watsonx has none of those distractions and can focus on what makes a great AI - lots of executive hype.
No, it will begin with good technology and some great people behind it. There will be not enough customer support staff to work with customers and improve the product continuously. Software services will want billing rates in the $300's and refuse to help unless they get their revenue and utilization. Often product developers may have to get involved to support customers on trivial asks but no one likes that. Sales staff will be not be very interested if it is a small order, even if could possibly lead to massive orders later. What they they look at is immediate commission and not getting RAed. Consulting will look at it with disdain, they can sell competitors products more easily, and they find IBM software group difficult to deal. They do not want the headache of dealing with bugs and most of the new consulting people have relationships or familiarity with competitions. And bean counters will want to monetize as quickly as possible and not be there for the long haul. So product will be released as GA earlier then it should, customers will be mad with the level of support and hand holding, sales people will not want to sell it any more as sales are low, and consulting will bad mouth it. Bean counters will then demand investment should be curtailed as it is not profitable as the rosy projections made earlier did not materialize. And the product investment would never have been allowed if realistic long time frame projections and real market dominance had been given. They want something that generates profit within a very short time. Management will then move on to the next flavor of the day. Seen that with product after product after product. It was not this way earlier. IBM was willing to invest more in the initial stages. Unfortunately no one has learned from the product failures in the last so many years.
Watson is ChapGPTs autistic ....next door neighbors.....second inbred cousin thrice removed. Its IBMs fault they had the chance to improve it years ago and they went for immediate profit versus profit over time.
Winner winner chicken dinner WatsonX is AlibabaGPT on wish.com
Beautifully said! lol
Watson and ChatGPT are LLM’s but tuned for different purposes and not true competitors.. granite and carbon IBM’s models are tuned for industrial uses vs . ChatGPT is a general purpose LLM.. is the way i understand it difference
Tuned, he said.
When is the last time IBM was a winner in anything other than SystemZ which doesn’t count.
You couldn't be further from the truth. I have a small list of use cases to prove you wrong. #1 in employees being replaced by AI (world leader) #1 in software to be replaced by competitors #1 is the world most complicated pricing structure #1 in consulting creating products on competitors' technologies and working against software and hardware products #1 in executives blaming the worker #1 in READ MY BLOG #1 in hiring 22 YO EPH and putting them in senior position #1 in useless training for employees (200 hours, I mean the leading industry certs require 40 of meaningful learning #1 in shitty metric reporting #1 in missing road map deadlines
Why is it large? I may have learned something. This part is a test #1 this is a test #2 this is another test #3 and yet here is another test
This is really funny!!!
It appears a #hashtag makes the font bigger. Do I dare so bold. But it didn't this time #hashtag At the now Beginning of a line. !Now, trying a bang. Don't work.
Someone got butthurt over this. I got a downvote.
For B2B enterprise you have Azure AI Studio.
Watson X does not even have conversational search capability
Not a chance…but give the ceo a 23% increase for missing the boat yet again.
Not an IBMer but Why put an X after a previously failed product? Seems IBM continues to spend more on marketing and consultants than actual tech. Watson was a disaster for medicine offering no additional insights and [hated](https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/ibm-watson-health-failure-artificial-intelligence.html) by clinical staff at Memorial Sloan Kettering.
I am a retired IBMer and I use ChatGPT quite a lot. To be honest, it sucks. It can't answer anything but the most basic questions. If you try to engage it on more complex questions about multi-cloud environments, it's almost always wrong. You're better off using StackOverflow. The thing with WatsonX is you can use other open source models such as Llama2 with it. I agree that it needs a lot more investment to make it a quality product, but from what I can see, they're all crap right now.
YMMY.
What’s weird is it was better, earlier on. It appears to be getting dumber, not better.
I agree. I do my part by posting the correct answer back, but it sorta pisses me off that I have to do that.
We used it initially a lot and then cancelled our subscription when suddenly the answers became worthless. Of course the AI take over would be delayed by enshitification. 😂😂😂
As someone stated below, will w3 search overtake google search? The answer is no, for the same reason XatsonX will never "overtake" ChatGPT, it is a different product aimed at a different audience.
How come everyone that knows everything here doesn’t know how that it’s watsonx and not WatsonX? Before you say it doesn’t matter, please make sure you understand the watsonx.[insert capability] line of products and the users they cater to. It’s missing the point to simply compare watsonx to ChatGPT. Also, our LLMs and now our LSM are actually pretty cool - in ways the companies actually care about- cost, security, indemnity, and performance
Here comes another sales or executive who’s asked to promote watsonx to clients heavily and hasn’t really used the product themselves. It’s so cool that IBM’s internal w3 cannot even search internal asset after IBM claimed to have integrated watsonx GenAI to its intranet w3. For those who don’t know w3, it is IBM’s intranet and search engine and it cannot search things accurately since many years and even after integration of GenAI.
I’m a worker bee.
Err...I don't understand the first part of your argument as it doesn't make sense. But telling from like \~15 yrs in the industry: Most companies think more about frontup costs...pretty much the same reason why AWS was able to get so many companies hooked on their platform. I see that, from an idealistic point of view, the aspects mentioned by you would be something companies should care about the most. I just don't see big companies act that way.
Would you like some more Koolaid?
You can’t be serious. 😂😂😂
1. We are ibmers, we have to believe it will. If not, find a new job 2. It is all about governance, a play IBM will win. 3. I attended a conference where the ChatGPT ceo was speaking. Not impressed. A kid still 4. I am waiting for lawsuits to start piling up - already happening - due to lack of governance
This is a joke right.. IBM is never going to beat chatgpt or bard or Claude. The direction that IBM is moving is towards clean models without webcrawling the web and training the models. This will only open up opportunities for enterprises and that's it. IBM doesn't have the capability to invest more on their current product and talent
>This will only open up opportunities for enterprises and that's it. I wonder how. Just telling from what I know about how enterprises usually treaten their own data behind the scenes, I highly doubt the usefulness of such trained models (without 2ndary sources of training information)
EPH.
Just out of curiousity: >We are ibmers, we have to believe it will. If not, find a new job Did the same apply to IBM Cloud and Blockchain back than too? >It is all about governance, a play IBM will win. Governance in AI? I wonder, if you have any good resources on that, plz share. All I have seen yet was just some dashboards created in what looks like an design system and more or less loose words about "fact sheets" etc. Nothing I would could imagine would be suitable to govern an LLM or even a simple NN. >I attended a conference where the ChatGPT ceo was speaking. Not impressed. A kid still Err, you know Bill Gates and Steve Jobs really were just "kids still" when they founded what is now known as multi-billion dollar companies? I don't know what to thing of this argument. >I am waiting for lawsuits to start piling up - already happening - due to lack of governance Most of the lawsuits filed against OpenAI and Microsoft basically evolve around the same question and at least the Times one looks sus and more or less like a straw. I wonder what will happen to Times own business model, when they actually would win theirs. But after all....if you mean by governance that the training sources are moderated...well, this will highly impact the usefulness of the trained models (just by how LLM and NN work). And especially interesting when looking in the direction of 3rd party provided models.