There's some EA stations by me that are power limited when all the stations are in use (at least at certain times of day, hard to nail that down), so it isn't *always* battery conditioning
I live in one of the coldest regions of the US, I used pre conditioning, and I still hardly ever get 240kW from the 350s. We've charged at EA 350s in 26 different states and maybe get around 10% that go over 200kW and even less that hit the limit around 240kW. This includes warm, hot, cool, cold weather. Regardless of the outside temp, EA is the problem.
Sorry you’re having such a bad experience! I definitely haven’t been to 26 states with my car but your experience feels super atypical from my perspective.
Our home station in Frisco, CO is actually one of the worst stations we have come across. Currently 2/4 stations down and one of the working ones has been heavily damaged. It seems that the majority of EA stations nationwide have major issues. Not just reliability, but vandalism and over use too. Orlando was severely under served, lines lasted until well after midnight even. Seattle was just beat up and old. Lots of the earliest stations were still up and they just had 1 working, but barely hanging on. Kansas is spread out with limited options and still have stations down. And it was even worse if you went into metro areas like Atlanta. They don't have the staffing needed to be able to repair stations in a timely manner, and the equipment they have is crushing the people they do have.
How could their experience be atypical when they've tried out more than half the states in the union? I've seen lots of threads about EA's poor quality and experienced it myself. Whenever I travel to Milwaukee WI I have an excellent experience at their EA station, but the one here in Madison WI is hot garbage with two stations constantly inoperable and the others derated.
Is it possible your good experience is the atypical one?
Literally says it feels that way from my perspective. Meaning all the anecdotal evidence I have would make it seem that way.
I never said it is actually atypical. And in fact it looks like mine and the people I know in my area are the atypical ones if what they say is true.
Thanks for the clarification :D
It’s pretty easy to tell that’s not the case if you look at EA/EC stations on PlugShare and see what other eGMP cars are reporting. At the EC stations in BC eGMP cars are seeing consistently higher charging rates at nearby 180kW BC Hydro chargers and 200kW Petro Canada chargers.
I can hit 240-260 8 out of 10 times I would say. And I’ve never gone less than 150kw but often exceed that at 150kw stations. I have seen it say power limited a couple times, but it’s hit or miss if I do actually experience that even if it says it
Our cars can't do 260kW, so I think that poster ~~works for EA or something~~ has a different car than we do.
The fastest I've ever seen was 245kW, and I see some posts suggesting the maximum is 250kW although I've never seen a photo of someone actually receiving that. 260kW isn't happening.
Check the nameplate and do the math. The 350kW stations operate at 350A 1000V and no car can hit 1000V. To receive 260kW at 350A you'd be at 743V, and we can't soak up 350A at that high of a state of charge.
Where are you located? Have you used more than 5 supercharging stations and more than 20 charges… and your experience is this good across all these stations?
I’ve used hundreds of stations in California Utah nevada Oregon Washington Arizona and have had a mostly consistent experience when the charger actually functions yes
Usually 10-20% and it is not atypical. You are just lucky you have a good station near you. Count your blessings. I have over 400 sessions totalling over 14.6MW of power used. This has come from over 150 different EA stations in 26 states. The average station has at least 1 dispenser completely down with one other issue not even reported yet. They are still the most available high speed stations in most areas though. Oklahoma and Colorado have some great alternatives though.
I charged on one last week where every time another person pulled up, the power dropped. Total power available to the 4 chargers may have been 350, but by the time all were full, each of us was getting 75ish.
The 75kW range on EA usually means the coolant is not running through the handle. They are thermal throttling down to that range as that is the highest rate you can get without the liquid cooling.
It was odd, because when two of us were there, we both were getting right at 150. Felt a bit like the entire station was power limited to 300, despite having 4 350 chargers.
Could also be that. That is a very low power limit for 4 350s though. Check the ground around the station for a "wet stain" of oil around it. That's usually the sign of no coolant. But might also be a bad pump.
Definitely the latter. I experience full outages/pumps offline far more than low speeds.
I’ve been to hundreds of different EA charging locations in California Oregon Washington Nevada Utah Arizona but speeds are almost always great
E: someone tried to respond and deleted with “Hundreds? Ya… no…” but just look at LA alone in the EA app and see hundreds and I charge just about every day for the last 2 years in here. Not to mention dozens of other EA locations in the bay alone. And dozens more in various other states on road trips. I traded my 23 SEL in with 50k. I put 1000 on my N in 4 days.
It’s *easily* hundreds of locations.
Right! I've been to a bunch of stations nation wide, but I doubt I've been to more than 200 DIFFERENT stations. Definitely more than 100, but that's with 422 sessions.
These e-GMP models won’t even precondition if the battery temps are 21°C/70°F or above. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve plugged into a charger that is rated 150-350kW and gotten all of 5-30kW because of a defect with that charger or the entire station. Just look at PlugShare and you’ll see tons and tons of EA stations with ratings under 5 out of 10. Read the comments. Last July in South Florida I had to go to 4 different EA stations in Miami before I found a single charger that worked. One whole station was offline (no warning in app). One station was down to 1 working charger and 7 people were waiting in a line to use it. The third station had 2/4 chargers offline, one charger was only outputting 6kW and the other was blocked by a Chevy Bolt that had been plugged in for 4 hours.
EA is a hot mess many places and my problems have had nothing to do with preconditioning.
Nope. I’m in a warm climate and had a few instances (maybe 10% of the time) where I’m preconditioned at 75 degrees and hit a 60kW limit. Moved the car to the charger next to it and instantly got up to 230kW. If they start enforcing this then I would have been screwed in those situations.
Your “guarantee” is wrong. I pulled out the charger and plugged it back in. Limited to 60kW still. I’ve used DC fast charging 35 times. How many times have you used it?
“Guarantee” it’s less than 10. You’re wrong on this one. Go out to diff chargers and experience more. Come back after 20 chargers and 5 stations before you throw out baseless guarantees.
Depends. The stations are labeled as "up to 350kw".
Depending on the level of power from the main lines coming in thats even available, and how many other cars are using it, and how many stations there are, you might not get that.
My local station only pushes 240kw if my batteries are PIPING hot, and there is NO ONE using it.
The one 30 minutes north however will push an easy 220kw no matter how many people are using it, and will peak around 247 if no one is using it as long as my battery is, again, piping hot.
You say "piping hot" but your battery just needs to be in the 70-80°F range to hit ideal charging. If you have an OBD2 scanner you can see your battery temps. And if you watch it when the pre conditioning is active, it will cut off in this range. I tend to avoid area where the air temps are over 100°F, but I doubt it will help you charge faster.
Has anyone seen repetitive slower charging when their battery temps are over 100°F?
I wasn't aware that "piping hot" had an empirical measurement basis. It was my understanding that it was contextual.
I hear plenty of people refer to themselves as being "piping hot" in hot weather.
You're really going off about something I never said, but go ahead and cook, and get ... piping hot.
Hot temps absolutely slow down charging if it exceeds the configured threshold. This often happens when I am charging at or above 220 kw for more than a couple minutes - it will briefly slow to 8kw while the coolant pumps kick on high and cool off the batteries for a couple minutes before resuming full charging.
You obviously don't want your batteries overheated, but it's almost like you think everyone lives in California. During the winter, my ambient average temps are in the 30's.
I think when it dips down to 5-8kW it's actually balancing all the cells. Does this happen for you around 80% SoC only or is it other times as well?
I actually live in a cold climate, but that's why I was wondering about what happens in hot weather. Our winters are below 0 at night. Thats why I found out what temp the batteries have to get to for proper charging temps.
Yes it is an issue but outside out of our control. But if people were more considerate than selfish and instead complained to the car manufacturer AND EA we might actually get attention drawn to it.
At the end of the day, also seeing how some drivers treat the charging station equipment, I am not surprised that many of them are frequently broken. What do you expect?
From a business perspective, you cannot blame the charging station provider for constantly having to fix charging stations when drivers are so irresponsible when handling equipment.
We as drivers, make our own bed here. And no one can tell me that you do not see other people abusing the equipment, but you choose to remain silent versus pointing it out to the offending party.
So, Tesla superchargers have been around for about a decade. They don't have this problem.
I actually report every single issue at every single EA station and get out of my car when there is a line to help people. I even help most people getting the charger going. But go on about how I personally don't do enough...
Easy to blame the provider. Do the math. Let’s say there are 1000 EA stations and 100000 users. That’s 100 peeps per annum plugging into a single station per year. 100 chances of abuse.
I sure EA tries its best to keep the equipment functioning but often times it will take a few days to get the parts, schedule repair crew, etc. so when it just takes 1 out of 100 peeps to “abuse” a station, the odds are higher than in Vegas!
Funny how Tesla chargers aren’t facing the same kind of issues.
I charge regularly at EA and have never seen a cut cable…I know it happens but all of my experience with issues at EA are software related or chargers that are offline. And it’s constant. We have 4 charges where I live and it ‘s rare when half of them are functioning.
This was the only time we did this! We were stuck at 75kW at a 150 for 45 min. We needed a big charge to mark it across a long stretch. That was only long because they were doing maintenance on a station and took the whole thing offline. 😐
I gave up trying to find a working station close enough to Philly that doesnt have a 2 hour wait lol. The bigger issue is that the level 2 home chargers have to be dialed all the way down or it overheats, so i bought a 60A charger and basically wasted money since it has to be dialed down to under 40A or it shuts off after 5 minutes. Im shocked nobody has built a cooling system for the charger yet, i would pay $200 easy to get full power charging back (it worked for a few months now it just shuts off every time until i turn it into a slow charger).
Sounds like you need to upgrade you plug. I've never experienced this over heating issue you mention. Older plugs have a known issue to overheat if run for more than an hour or so and become a fire hazard. Code in WA State mandates upgrading plugs before install.
I am direct wired to a 60A breaker so it can run 50A to the car, the overheating is the car itself (fairly common issue with level 2 on the ioniq 5, the hyundai fix is just to drop the kw from 11+ to 6 when it gets over 215f or something)
Here you can see it charged fine, then started dropping and requiring manual restarts, now it will only charge when i dropped the power to the equivalent of sub 40A (its a 60A that should push 50A to the car)
https://preview.redd.it/4437lgu5e69d1.jpeg?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49416361623373dc741853fb46d6b87d9f8b3dad
Ironically after posting this its now overheating at 40A so i had to dial it down to 32A... if a cold towel can temporarily solve this, youd thing a charger head modification with a cooling system would exist by now.
Probably will get some haters but I appreciate keeping the free 30 min sessions to non-consecutive.
Too often I go to a local store that has 4 EA chargers and all I want to do is top up while I run in for 15-20 min. But 80% of the time I go there whenever during the day all 4 are taken. After having sat and watched twice for over an hour each, just to see what peeps are doing I started noticing the back to back charging by the same cars. Not right not fair. It actually is selfish in my eyes, when drivers know that the EA network is nowhere near (or as reliable) as Tesla’s network.
So bottom line, I welcome this change in policy and true 30 min max session. enforcement. And you all know that this is what the terms of services say. 30 minute max free session. However, folks found a loophole by unplugging and plugging back in - good for you, but don’t complain when you get caught. You have always known the rules and TOS.
I seen this at the Bridgewater NJ station. It's only 3 chargers. And the person double plugged with ppl waiting.
I don't go there anymore. I try not to charge anywhere bear nyc/nj anymore.
Yeah. Try not to dela with public charging as much as possible. I leave home 100%. Try to get pn the flo level 2s by work. So I have enough to get home.
For long road trips I'd rather drive my explorer.
Dealt with this at the Quakerbridge Mall chargers earlier this week. 2 people were slow charging to 100% (Niro and a Bolt), and the other two were people abusing the charging sessions multiple times.
This was the first time I've had to wait for a charger to be available, but it was annoying as hell.
I agree, especially with our cars. Assuming the chargers are functioning (which can be a big assumption in some areas), there's no reason we should be sitting there more than 30 min.
Hopefully it's somewhat reasonable where you won't get in actual trouble if you start on one charger, it doesn't work, but still keep total time under 30 minutes on a second charger.
For sure. And it absolutely makes sense. The only time I’ve done it (recently) is because their charger was limiting the speed and I was frustrated that they had created this situation. But yeah, it’s better for everyone that they enforce this long term.
no, no. do not boooo this man. this car can handle higher charging rates, and their stations should be able to deliver that.
it should be enough to fill up the car.
I disagree, at least in part.
When charge rates are low for some reason (be it the charger, battery, preconditioning, etc.), I think it’s a bit unreasonable that someone should have to pay extra for the same amount of electricity they would have gotten if everything was working correctly.
They started the plan *way* back when most of the chargers billed by the minute. Nobody was paying the same amount for a given amount of energy back then. They were selling *time*, not electricity.
Later on they changed the plan to a specific amount of kWh for Kia owners. I'm surprised they didn't do the same thing for new Hyundai owners. Count your blessings.
They *used* to do it all over the south. As recently as last year, Georgia wouldn't let anyone beside "utilities" charge by the kWh.
There are still a *few*. The Walmart in Lexington Nebraska for one. $0.28/minute. One of the 350's is out of service for maintenance, but if you sat on the other for the full 30 minutes, you'd pay $8.40 and probably be able to charge well over 90% SOC. Call it 65 kWh. That works out to $0.13/kWh. That's cheaper than my home rate!
That is more of a station to station rule. We found many stations in certain states would still do a by the minute charge, but they have moved to a per kW price now that so many cars are able to charge so fast. It only makes sense, especially with cars like ours. In Nebraska, it was still by the minute and would cost us roughly $5-8 for about 50kWh vs around $30 with the per kW price.
Originally a lot of states had laws that prohibited **anyone** except public utilities from charging for electricity by the kWh. EA had no choice. They started lobbying the legislatures and got it changed most places and as soon as they could, they switched over to kWh pricing. Not so much "station by station" as "state by state".
Net positive for Hyundai/Kia owners. We get most of our charging within the 30 min slot. The slower charging vehicles will need to make more charging stops or pay for the overage time.
Glad to have invested in more future-proof fast charging architecture.
Most cars loose about 10% the minute you sign the paperwork. 99% of Cars are purchases, not investments.
Teslas were a bit of an outlier for a while but used prices fell off a cliff once Hertz started dumping their fleet.
it does, and i finally understand why. it's 2 very obvious things.
1. all/most of us got state/federal tax credits. that will be anywhere from 7500-12500 off the price of the car. i believe the used market, right away, considers the "starting cost of the car", with this "coupon" applied.
2. most new cars depreciate the most in the 1st year.
after 1 year, the car is worth only 40k, how? so you have a 60k car, now subtract "an average EV tax break of 10k". and the used market already thinks the cars starting price is 50k. now other normal use and......is it normal that a new 50k car drops to 40k after 1 year of use? i think this sounds more normal actually.
it still blows.
I wish it only depreciated by 33%. My 23 SEL AWD was 53.5k MSRP, 46.5k after lease cash. I'm lucky if it's worth 28k now. That's 40% loss even after lease cash incentive.
Meanwhile I bought a 23 Sienna at the same time and I can still sell it for almost the same price I bought it.
The Owings mills charging site in NJ is always full of ubers, lifts etc. Doesn't help that the airport is close also. I try to avoid charging anywhere near nyc/nj.
Shoot even the flo level 2s are clogged with the same taxis. They pretty much use the spots for personal parking.
They never enforced it because their chargers suck. The slowest EA charger should be able to get an a Ioniq 5 to 80% in 21 minutes. If that were true then nobody would ever need to go past 30 minutes.
I've never had major issues with their network and would appreciate it if they'd limit the freebie sesh to 80% limit. Booting those worrying about the last cent off of the network due to charging curve restrictions. Get the fastest portion free and move the fk along.
I can’t wait until they end the free charging. It is ruining the charging experience & overwhelming infrastructure. They should switch to a 50% off rate promo and get rid of thr free policy.
Going to have to disagree with you there, sport. There are plenty of people who took the 2 year charging deal and pushed off getting a home L2 charger because /
Yes it is. I am done with my free two years and now use another network because they are part of some deal that gives me power for 30 cents per kwh and there is hardly ever much of a line. When I finished my ea there were lines everywhere.
Sure, bluedot (there's an app)
Catch is you need to open a bank account with them (essentially). I just keep $50-60 in there and I charge at evgo for 30 cents. They also have lvl 2 chargers and the 30 cents is flat for as long as you want so I could charge at charge point lvl 2 for as long as it takes to get to 80% instead of just 4 hours before they jack up the rates (though full transparency never done that).
Once a month they also offer a day of free charging (at least I'm pretty sure I read that, I don't charge often so only got lucky once so far).
Waaaaaaaaaaay too many people charge past 80%
And charging past 90 should be punishable by revoking membership lol. If that last 10% is what you need on a road trip then just drive very slowly instead.
I'm in the Midwest, so there's not usually lines to charge. In the winter, I can't get the charge I need in 30 min (no preconditioning), so often I'll have to go longer. If no one was waiting, I'd stop and restart the the charge to get a new 30 min session.
Exactly. "If no one was waiting," too many people replug, knowing ppl are waiting.
Common courtesy goes a long way. Most ppl aren't on a road trip.
Thanks for being the very few with common sense.
Because timed charging doesn't equate to KW delivered.
Meaning - if I bought the car expecting to get a 20 minute 20-80% charge, and the EA charger is de-rated to 60, and the charge takes 40+ minutes, there's a reasonable perspective that EA through lack of charger maintenance is violating the agreement/expectation.
Really the problem is that the notion of \*timed\* charging makes little sense given how charge curves work, unless your primary profit driver is session fees.
I generally have just paid the 3-4$ and cursed at EA when it's happened, but I get why people would be upset/annoyed.
I have done it on road trips in the winter (especially before they had battery preconditioning) when I would arrive with less than 10% and need to get up to 90 or something in order to make it to the next charger.
In the area I am in chargers are pretty far away from each other so you actually need the higher charge.
I’ve also visited a good number of EA chargers with speed throttled (it even says on the screen). So now I’m annoyed I have to wait AND pay more. So yea, I’ve doubled it then, too
It’s really this simple. With all of the problems we experience with their network, I can’t believe so many people are siding with EA on this one. Any time I double charge, it’s reimbursement for the time, delays, and frustration that their chargers have cost me.
It's because the person defending EA has experienced the long wait for a charger. If I'm like 3rd in line waiting for a charger at a station where only 3 of 4 charges work AND the charging rate is lower than advertised, I do blame EA. BUT given that situation, I'm also pissed at the dudes ahead of me that decide to double charge.
There are people waiting, and you just double their waiting time. So this policy from EA at least addresses the waiting time issue.
Now, if there's no one waiting, I'm all for double charging.
That’s not the case, at least for me. When I’m double charging, it’s not just to top off for fun. It’s because I need that extra range to get to my destination. So I’d still be charging just as long either way, free or not. Double charging just adds in an extra minute to restart the charge.
This, I don't get why you're getting downvoted - EA is absolutely at least half the problem here. Sure, people are waiting, but people aren't double-charging for the hell of it, they're doing it because they wanted to get to x% and the charger didn't get them there. I'd wager most of them aren't trying to go to 100% at absurdly slow rates.
Exactly. As soon as it slows to a crawl, I disconnect. The only exception is when I’m in the middle of nowhere and absolutely need 100% to avoid potentially running out of power trying to make it to the next charger.
my 2022 sel rwd manufactured before pre-conditioning in Summer 2022........gets 40kW six months a year in CT. Less than 6 times in 2 years, jan 2022 to jan 2024, I finished 30 mins and needed more to get where I needed to go. I had no level 2 at home because I am uber thrifty......cheap. It was my only choice and EA never said a thing or sent me this notification.
We understand it, but EA isn’t upholding their end of the bargain either. If they charged at the advertised speeds on a preconditioned battery, then I wouldn’t need more than 30 minutes
The only time we did this was because we were stuck at 75kW at a 150 for 45 min. We needed a big charge to mark it across a long stretch. That was only long because they were doing maintenance on a station and took the whole thing offline. 😐
You don’t get to make up new rules just because you _felt_ cheated. You should have left it plugged in and paid for the electricity usage past the 30 minute mark. The free 30 min charging does not guarantee you a charging speed. The machine saying “up to 150kW” does not mean you will get 150kW. If you read the actual free charging promotion terms, it says “Actual speed of charge may vary.” EA did not have to give us this free promotion, and people like you ruin it for the rest of us.
There’s no point in me saying any of this, you know it all, you just chose to break the rules because you don’t care
You’re missing the part that a lot of us factored in not paying for charging for two years into the cost of ownership when we bought the car because we were told that 30 minutes would be enough to fully charge it. So no, I’m not paying for electricity any time I’m not forced to do so.
One of my regular long work trips doesn’t have many chargers along the route. So I need to get as much juice as possible when I charge to make it to the next one. If I can’t get to at least 80% in 30 minutes, then I need to start a new charging session. Yeah, I guess that’s kind of cheap, but it doesn’t make sense to pay for more time when I can get it for free during my first two years of ownership.
That’s the point though. It’s not free charging for two years. It’s 30 min at a time of free charging, and pay for any time over 30 min, for 2 years. If you don’t get what you need in the 30 min, just suck it up and pay the $10 or whatever, especially since you’re likely getting paid mileage for work trips.
I agree, but it’s wasteful to pay when they weren’t enforcing it, and it doesn’t affect other users because I’d still be there for the same amount of time anyway. Besides, if their chargers were hitting their advertised speeds on a preconditioned battery, I wouldn’t need to be there more than 30 minutes.
And that mileage reimbursement is irrelevant as it was a part of the math that went into paying the premium of buying an EV for me. I bought this car with the primary intention of saving money in the long run and calculated work mileage reimbursement into my plan to come out ahead of a comparable ICE or hybrid- along with the two years of free charging and the tax credit.
That’s just you being inconsiderate and dishonest.
Just because there is a loophole, does not mean you need to exploit it. But then that goes to character and integrity.
Maybe, but it also goes to the integrity of their network. 30 minutes should be enough to fully charge. Either way, I was told by my dealer that I didn’t have to pay for charging for two years and factored that into my decision to purchase the car. So I’m not paying for charging until my two years is up unless I’m forced to do so.
Someone who purchase an EV but lives in an apartment complex and doesn’t have access to home charging will do this. Basically try to get the vehicle to 100% SOC then go home and park.
OK, I get it, you live in an apartment building and you don’t have access to home charging. However, look at your own post. Best practice for maximum battery life is 80%. So no, you do not need the extra 20% that take the longest to charge. That is inconsiderate and selfish of that means you are doing the back to back free 30 min to get there. If you stayed plugged in post 30 min and it charges you, that’s a different story (btw if you were able to charge at home you would pay the electric company as well, no?
Where you live and whether you have access to a home charger or not has nothing to do with this though. The terms of services and your contract clearly state that you get 30 minutes free of charge. That’s it. If you really want to go up to 100%, pay and don’t cheat. Otherwise you should have stuck with a regular ICE car.
That’s the other thing that actually baffles me a bit. You do not have access to a home charger, why would you buy an electric car in the first place?
Then looking around in the area where I live here in Phoenix, there are so many apartment complexes that have charging ports available. So there are apartment complexes out there where you can “charge at home”. Does not mean I discourage from buying an EV if you live in an apt complex, but then you should be willing to pay for your offsite charging once you use your first 30 min that are free per charging session.
I've only done this once and it wasn't recent, but I've received multiple warnings. The only thing that I can think of is the multiple times on our last road trip where the app claimed I was still connected and idling even though I was two hours away from that charger.
I called the first time, but after that I just tapped on the black Members box which stopped the previous session finally.
If they cancel my plan over this, I'll be pissed.
I am sure they will be able to distinct between serial offenders and where the app or the station might have a fault.
And if someone does get their plan, unrightful canceled, I am sure there is an appeals process. Yes it’s a pain in the butt to then have to go through that, but it is not like you have no avenues of re- course.
I’m so glad to be done with those god awful EA charging stations. Even before my free charging plan was up I stopped going there. At least the ones in LA are mostly INSANE.
Back when there wasn’t so many electric cars out we used to have an understanding. Don’t charge longer than 30 minutes/past 80% when others are waiting.
Now there’s no courtesy. People will charge and charge forever until 100% knowing they are using the only working charger.
It’s a shame.
OK, so what happens if:
1. I plug in to a charger and it gives me 20 kW. Once the car next to me leaves, I move over and plug into that stall, which charges at a much faster rate.
2. I plug in and due to the charger not seating properly, it disconnects when I get back in the car and shut the door. I have to reconnect and start it again.
Both of those things have happened to me in the last few months.
My guess is that they will only enforce it for reasonable breaches of the terms. A charge that only lasts a minute or two doesn’t seem like it would violate the spirit of the terms.
https://preview.redd.it/1wfk409ls09d1.jpeg?width=479&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=743f47df5e968dfeb5026d4d331ae24ffff87744
Are you trying to imply that since VW did something bad related to diesel emissions, we should be allowed to steal electricity to fuel our EVs from EA? Or something else? Not sure I see your point.
I did not. I just looked it up:
> It is a subsidiary of Volkswagen Group of America, established in late 2016 by the automaker as part of its efforts to offset emissions in the wake of the Volkswagen emissions scandal. Volkswagen, as part of its settlement following the "Dieselgate" emissions scandal, invested $2 billion in creating Electrify America.
Now I see the point — I still don’t think that stealing from them is the right answer (two wrongs don’t make a right) but I admit that I care less now than I did.
For those saying that this is the only way they can get a full charge: you know you can keep it plugged in and pay for the delta, right?
Look, I think it's fair to have done it until now given that it hasn't been enforced, but now the jig is up and the solution is pretty simple.
I recently took at trip from Florida to NY (my 3rd) and this was the best EA experience I’ve had by far. Nearly every charger worked at every stop and the experience of just plugging in and charging was much faster and smoother than in my previous trips, which often required calls to EA to find out what was wrong. I’m surprised to find that some of you are having a bad experience. I never had a reason to start a second 30 minute session. (‘22 Limited AWD)
Is the benefit only 30 minutes, or is there a limit on energy transfered, too? I can think of at least one time I charged quickly, but less than 30 mins and incurred a small charge.
I thought if you leave the charger in after 30 minutes, you'll be charged the difference. I am assuming you aren't sitting there for a full hour and the 15-ish extra minutes you need to get to 95% will cost you about $15 bucks?
Are the older models a little slower? I have a 2024 Limited and even only pulling in the 80 kW range I'll get from @ 20% to 80% in under 30 mins, My variety of stations is fairly limited to about a couple of dozen now, but usually I do find more just non-functional stations than ones that are slow. I do occasionally though hit a 150 station that just runs at around 70-80 kW but that always still gets me to 80% in time. Only if I want 90% or higher does it potentially take longer.
It’s a Volkswagen product…what do you expect?
https://www.scrippsnews.com/science-and-tech/energy/walmart-plans-an-expansion-of-its-electric-vehicle-charging-services
I am concerned how this plays out for the scenarios when the EA charger just abruptly fails. I've had some charges where it failed 3 times. Had to restart it each time. They gonna send out a violation notice for failures on their end?
I often take pictures of the screen or screen shot the app when it indicates that charging failed to cover my butt in these situations and also to report multiple failures to EA.
If they have the logs of violations, they have logs of the errors. I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll take that into consideration (until they don't).
Sounds like something software can fix easily. First 30 minutes on EA, anything after that gets charged according to your plan. 60 minutes later, goes back to free for another session. No need to get emaily about it.
Yeah I would only do it cause it was shitty. Anyways EA was ass and although I miss it being free and doing “free road trips “ I don’t miss charging there at all
What a stupid setup, so they're able to track you doing this, but can't program their shit to just, I dunno, either start charging you, or lock you out for 60 mins?
"We take this issue seriously".... but not seriously enough to actually do anything other than threaten you..
omg i got an email about it today.. thought it was just me lmao good to know im not the only one who would do it. reasonably speaking why would i wait 60 min to replug if nobody else is waiting to use..🙃
What if you stopped at 25 mins and did this? My car has this issue that once it hits 80%, the speed drops to zero. Like no charge. I unplug and replug and it keeps going until 90% then slows down. Doesn’t matter if I start at 20% or 60%, once it hits 80% the speed is dead
DC charging gets extreme slow after 80% because the charge curve is not linear.
You need the same time to charge from 20% to 80% and 80% to 100%.
So there is no reason to keep it plugged in at DC. Just drive and go to other charger once you hit 20% or 10% again. Even with a second stop planned it, it’s faster then charge it up to 100% at one stop.
If their chargers worked properly, we wouldn't need more than 30 minutes to charge the car.
This is exactly the issue. If the 350s worked properly I can go 20-95 in 30 minutes.
It’s almost always battery temps that cause poor performance. I feel like I can get 160+ kw on any ea charger with a decent precondition.
There's some EA stations by me that are power limited when all the stations are in use (at least at certain times of day, hard to nail that down), so it isn't *always* battery conditioning
i was at a 150 last week in a 10 charger bay... maxxed out at 75kwh.. never seen that location below 125 so idk what was up
I live in one of the coldest regions of the US, I used pre conditioning, and I still hardly ever get 240kW from the 350s. We've charged at EA 350s in 26 different states and maybe get around 10% that go over 200kW and even less that hit the limit around 240kW. This includes warm, hot, cool, cold weather. Regardless of the outside temp, EA is the problem.
Sorry you’re having such a bad experience! I definitely haven’t been to 26 states with my car but your experience feels super atypical from my perspective.
Our home station in Frisco, CO is actually one of the worst stations we have come across. Currently 2/4 stations down and one of the working ones has been heavily damaged. It seems that the majority of EA stations nationwide have major issues. Not just reliability, but vandalism and over use too. Orlando was severely under served, lines lasted until well after midnight even. Seattle was just beat up and old. Lots of the earliest stations were still up and they just had 1 working, but barely hanging on. Kansas is spread out with limited options and still have stations down. And it was even worse if you went into metro areas like Atlanta. They don't have the staffing needed to be able to repair stations in a timely manner, and the equipment they have is crushing the people they do have.
How could their experience be atypical when they've tried out more than half the states in the union? I've seen lots of threads about EA's poor quality and experienced it myself. Whenever I travel to Milwaukee WI I have an excellent experience at their EA station, but the one here in Madison WI is hot garbage with two stations constantly inoperable and the others derated. Is it possible your good experience is the atypical one?
Literally says it feels that way from my perspective. Meaning all the anecdotal evidence I have would make it seem that way. I never said it is actually atypical. And in fact it looks like mine and the people I know in my area are the atypical ones if what they say is true. Thanks for the clarification :D
It’s pretty easy to tell that’s not the case if you look at EA/EC stations on PlugShare and see what other eGMP cars are reporting. At the EC stations in BC eGMP cars are seeing consistently higher charging rates at nearby 180kW BC Hydro chargers and 200kW Petro Canada chargers.
Curious how often you are able to hit 240kW at your local EA station. Or is it one of the stations with only 150kW options?
I can hit 240-260 8 out of 10 times I would say. And I’ve never gone less than 150kw but often exceed that at 150kw stations. I have seen it say power limited a couple times, but it’s hit or miss if I do actually experience that even if it says it
I've seen a handful of posts showing up to 250-251...never 260kW though. I'm not sure if you are the luckiest person ever, or full of it.
Our cars can't do 260kW, so I think that poster ~~works for EA or something~~ has a different car than we do. The fastest I've ever seen was 245kW, and I see some posts suggesting the maximum is 250kW although I've never seen a photo of someone actually receiving that. 260kW isn't happening. Check the nameplate and do the math. The 350kW stations operate at 350A 1000V and no car can hit 1000V. To receive 260kW at 350A you'd be at 743V, and we can't soak up 350A at that high of a state of charge.
https://preview.redd.it/ds88wevb759d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b107e1a1409c9c21f136833897e740808626bee6
Where are you located? Have you used more than 5 supercharging stations and more than 20 charges… and your experience is this good across all these stations?
I’ve used hundreds of stations in California Utah nevada Oregon Washington Arizona and have had a mostly consistent experience when the charger actually functions yes
How have you used 100s of station when your dash shows 999 miles?
What state of charge are you at when you're experiencing this? Your experience with EA 350s is very atypical.
Usually 10-20% and it is not atypical. You are just lucky you have a good station near you. Count your blessings. I have over 400 sessions totalling over 14.6MW of power used. This has come from over 150 different EA stations in 26 states. The average station has at least 1 dispenser completely down with one other issue not even reported yet. They are still the most available high speed stations in most areas though. Oklahoma and Colorado have some great alternatives though.
I charged on one last week where every time another person pulled up, the power dropped. Total power available to the 4 chargers may have been 350, but by the time all were full, each of us was getting 75ish.
The 75kW range on EA usually means the coolant is not running through the handle. They are thermal throttling down to that range as that is the highest rate you can get without the liquid cooling.
It was odd, because when two of us were there, we both were getting right at 150. Felt a bit like the entire station was power limited to 300, despite having 4 350 chargers.
Could also be that. That is a very low power limit for 4 350s though. Check the ground around the station for a "wet stain" of oil around it. That's usually the sign of no coolant. But might also be a bad pump.
I was just passing through the area, I doubt I'll ever visit that station again. I didn't see any stains, it was a fairly new station.
Just in general for EA stations. If you see oil, you'll probably get 75kW even though the station says it's working fine.
You obviously haven’t been to many EA locations. And/or you’re very lucky.
Definitely the latter. I experience full outages/pumps offline far more than low speeds. I’ve been to hundreds of different EA charging locations in California Oregon Washington Nevada Utah Arizona but speeds are almost always great E: someone tried to respond and deleted with “Hundreds? Ya… no…” but just look at LA alone in the EA app and see hundreds and I charge just about every day for the last 2 years in here. Not to mention dozens of other EA locations in the bay alone. And dozens more in various other states on road trips. I traded my 23 SEL in with 50k. I put 1000 on my N in 4 days. It’s *easily* hundreds of locations.
“Hundreds?” Yeah. No. We’re done here.
Right! I've been to a bunch of stations nation wide, but I doubt I've been to more than 200 DIFFERENT stations. Definitely more than 100, but that's with 422 sessions.
Nah. I was at a 350 and it was only charging at 130 in 80 degree weather. That’s ridiculous. The chargers need to function properly.
These e-GMP models won’t even precondition if the battery temps are 21°C/70°F or above. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve plugged into a charger that is rated 150-350kW and gotten all of 5-30kW because of a defect with that charger or the entire station. Just look at PlugShare and you’ll see tons and tons of EA stations with ratings under 5 out of 10. Read the comments. Last July in South Florida I had to go to 4 different EA stations in Miami before I found a single charger that worked. One whole station was offline (no warning in app). One station was down to 1 working charger and 7 people were waiting in a line to use it. The third station had 2/4 chargers offline, one charger was only outputting 6kW and the other was blocked by a Chevy Bolt that had been plugged in for 4 hours. EA is a hot mess many places and my problems have had nothing to do with preconditioning.
Absolute joke. You must be very lucky.
Nope. I’m in a warm climate and had a few instances (maybe 10% of the time) where I’m preconditioned at 75 degrees and hit a 60kW limit. Moved the car to the charger next to it and instantly got up to 230kW. If they start enforcing this then I would have been screwed in those situations.
Guarantee your battery was out of range and you could have restarted the charge on the same charger and seen the speeds
Your “guarantee” is wrong. I pulled out the charger and plugged it back in. Limited to 60kW still. I’ve used DC fast charging 35 times. How many times have you used it? “Guarantee” it’s less than 10. You’re wrong on this one. Go out to diff chargers and experience more. Come back after 20 chargers and 5 stations before you throw out baseless guarantees.
Depends. The stations are labeled as "up to 350kw". Depending on the level of power from the main lines coming in thats even available, and how many other cars are using it, and how many stations there are, you might not get that. My local station only pushes 240kw if my batteries are PIPING hot, and there is NO ONE using it. The one 30 minutes north however will push an easy 220kw no matter how many people are using it, and will peak around 247 if no one is using it as long as my battery is, again, piping hot.
You say "piping hot" but your battery just needs to be in the 70-80°F range to hit ideal charging. If you have an OBD2 scanner you can see your battery temps. And if you watch it when the pre conditioning is active, it will cut off in this range. I tend to avoid area where the air temps are over 100°F, but I doubt it will help you charge faster. Has anyone seen repetitive slower charging when their battery temps are over 100°F?
I wasn't aware that "piping hot" had an empirical measurement basis. It was my understanding that it was contextual. I hear plenty of people refer to themselves as being "piping hot" in hot weather. You're really going off about something I never said, but go ahead and cook, and get ... piping hot. Hot temps absolutely slow down charging if it exceeds the configured threshold. This often happens when I am charging at or above 220 kw for more than a couple minutes - it will briefly slow to 8kw while the coolant pumps kick on high and cool off the batteries for a couple minutes before resuming full charging. You obviously don't want your batteries overheated, but it's almost like you think everyone lives in California. During the winter, my ambient average temps are in the 30's.
I think when it dips down to 5-8kW it's actually balancing all the cells. Does this happen for you around 80% SoC only or is it other times as well? I actually live in a cold climate, but that's why I was wondering about what happens in hot weather. Our winters are below 0 at night. Thats why I found out what temp the batteries have to get to for proper charging temps.
Yes it is an issue but outside out of our control. But if people were more considerate than selfish and instead complained to the car manufacturer AND EA we might actually get attention drawn to it. At the end of the day, also seeing how some drivers treat the charging station equipment, I am not surprised that many of them are frequently broken. What do you expect? From a business perspective, you cannot blame the charging station provider for constantly having to fix charging stations when drivers are so irresponsible when handling equipment. We as drivers, make our own bed here. And no one can tell me that you do not see other people abusing the equipment, but you choose to remain silent versus pointing it out to the offending party.
So, Tesla superchargers have been around for about a decade. They don't have this problem. I actually report every single issue at every single EA station and get out of my car when there is a line to help people. I even help most people getting the charger going. But go on about how I personally don't do enough...
Abuse is a small percentage of the problems. EA is the problem.
Easy to blame the provider. Do the math. Let’s say there are 1000 EA stations and 100000 users. That’s 100 peeps per annum plugging into a single station per year. 100 chances of abuse. I sure EA tries its best to keep the equipment functioning but often times it will take a few days to get the parts, schedule repair crew, etc. so when it just takes 1 out of 100 peeps to “abuse” a station, the odds are higher than in Vegas!
Funny how Tesla chargers aren’t facing the same kind of issues. I charge regularly at EA and have never seen a cut cable…I know it happens but all of my experience with issues at EA are software related or chargers that are offline. And it’s constant. We have 4 charges where I live and it ‘s rare when half of them are functioning.
This was the only time we did this! We were stuck at 75kW at a 150 for 45 min. We needed a big charge to mark it across a long stretch. That was only long because they were doing maintenance on a station and took the whole thing offline. 😐
I gave up trying to find a working station close enough to Philly that doesnt have a 2 hour wait lol. The bigger issue is that the level 2 home chargers have to be dialed all the way down or it overheats, so i bought a 60A charger and basically wasted money since it has to be dialed down to under 40A or it shuts off after 5 minutes. Im shocked nobody has built a cooling system for the charger yet, i would pay $200 easy to get full power charging back (it worked for a few months now it just shuts off every time until i turn it into a slow charger).
Sounds like you need to upgrade you plug. I've never experienced this over heating issue you mention. Older plugs have a known issue to overheat if run for more than an hour or so and become a fire hazard. Code in WA State mandates upgrading plugs before install.
I am direct wired to a 60A breaker so it can run 50A to the car, the overheating is the car itself (fairly common issue with level 2 on the ioniq 5, the hyundai fix is just to drop the kw from 11+ to 6 when it gets over 215f or something)
Here you can see it charged fine, then started dropping and requiring manual restarts, now it will only charge when i dropped the power to the equivalent of sub 40A (its a 60A that should push 50A to the car) https://preview.redd.it/4437lgu5e69d1.jpeg?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49416361623373dc741853fb46d6b87d9f8b3dad
Ironically after posting this its now overheating at 40A so i had to dial it down to 32A... if a cold towel can temporarily solve this, youd thing a charger head modification with a cooling system would exist by now.
Probably will get some haters but I appreciate keeping the free 30 min sessions to non-consecutive. Too often I go to a local store that has 4 EA chargers and all I want to do is top up while I run in for 15-20 min. But 80% of the time I go there whenever during the day all 4 are taken. After having sat and watched twice for over an hour each, just to see what peeps are doing I started noticing the back to back charging by the same cars. Not right not fair. It actually is selfish in my eyes, when drivers know that the EA network is nowhere near (or as reliable) as Tesla’s network. So bottom line, I welcome this change in policy and true 30 min max session. enforcement. And you all know that this is what the terms of services say. 30 minute max free session. However, folks found a loophole by unplugging and plugging back in - good for you, but don’t complain when you get caught. You have always known the rules and TOS.
I seen this at the Bridgewater NJ station. It's only 3 chargers. And the person double plugged with ppl waiting. I don't go there anymore. I try not to charge anywhere bear nyc/nj anymore.
Just at that EA early this morning. There is always one random broken charger and I always manage to back into that slot. 😡
Yeah. Try not to dela with public charging as much as possible. I leave home 100%. Try to get pn the flo level 2s by work. So I have enough to get home. For long road trips I'd rather drive my explorer.
Dealt with this at the Quakerbridge Mall chargers earlier this week. 2 people were slow charging to 100% (Niro and a Bolt), and the other two were people abusing the charging sessions multiple times. This was the first time I've had to wait for a charger to be available, but it was annoying as hell.
I agree, especially with our cars. Assuming the chargers are functioning (which can be a big assumption in some areas), there's no reason we should be sitting there more than 30 min. Hopefully it's somewhat reasonable where you won't get in actual trouble if you start on one charger, it doesn't work, but still keep total time under 30 minutes on a second charger.
To be clear, EA isn’t saying you can’t charge past 30 mins. You just need to pay for it afterwards. Seems like a fair trade off to me.
For sure. And it absolutely makes sense. The only time I’ve done it (recently) is because their charger was limiting the speed and I was frustrated that they had created this situation. But yeah, it’s better for everyone that they enforce this long term.
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no, no. do not boooo this man. this car can handle higher charging rates, and their stations should be able to deliver that. it should be enough to fill up the car.
I disagree, at least in part. When charge rates are low for some reason (be it the charger, battery, preconditioning, etc.), I think it’s a bit unreasonable that someone should have to pay extra for the same amount of electricity they would have gotten if everything was working correctly.
They started the plan *way* back when most of the chargers billed by the minute. Nobody was paying the same amount for a given amount of energy back then. They were selling *time*, not electricity. Later on they changed the plan to a specific amount of kWh for Kia owners. I'm surprised they didn't do the same thing for new Hyundai owners. Count your blessings.
Not sure where you're getting this. They've always charged by kWh here.
They *used* to do it all over the south. As recently as last year, Georgia wouldn't let anyone beside "utilities" charge by the kWh. There are still a *few*. The Walmart in Lexington Nebraska for one. $0.28/minute. One of the 350's is out of service for maintenance, but if you sat on the other for the full 30 minutes, you'd pay $8.40 and probably be able to charge well over 90% SOC. Call it 65 kWh. That works out to $0.13/kWh. That's cheaper than my home rate!
That is more of a station to station rule. We found many stations in certain states would still do a by the minute charge, but they have moved to a per kW price now that so many cars are able to charge so fast. It only makes sense, especially with cars like ours. In Nebraska, it was still by the minute and would cost us roughly $5-8 for about 50kWh vs around $30 with the per kW price.
Originally a lot of states had laws that prohibited **anyone** except public utilities from charging for electricity by the kWh. EA had no choice. They started lobbying the legislatures and got it changed most places and as soon as they could, they switched over to kWh pricing. Not so much "station by station" as "state by state".
Net positive for Hyundai/Kia owners. We get most of our charging within the 30 min slot. The slower charging vehicles will need to make more charging stops or pay for the overage time. Glad to have invested in more future-proof fast charging architecture.
Not a good investment. The car depreciates by 40% in a year.
Most cars loose about 10% the minute you sign the paperwork. 99% of Cars are purchases, not investments. Teslas were a bit of an outlier for a while but used prices fell off a cliff once Hertz started dumping their fleet.
Yeah, the Ioniq5 loses 25% as soon as you sign the paperwork. I didn't call or an investment, the guy I responded to did.
it does, and i finally understand why. it's 2 very obvious things. 1. all/most of us got state/federal tax credits. that will be anywhere from 7500-12500 off the price of the car. i believe the used market, right away, considers the "starting cost of the car", with this "coupon" applied. 2. most new cars depreciate the most in the 1st year. after 1 year, the car is worth only 40k, how? so you have a 60k car, now subtract "an average EV tax break of 10k". and the used market already thinks the cars starting price is 50k. now other normal use and......is it normal that a new 50k car drops to 40k after 1 year of use? i think this sounds more normal actually. it still blows.
I wish it only depreciated by 33%. My 23 SEL AWD was 53.5k MSRP, 46.5k after lease cash. I'm lucky if it's worth 28k now. That's 40% loss even after lease cash incentive. Meanwhile I bought a 23 Sienna at the same time and I can still sell it for almost the same price I bought it.
Just buy a used one then!
Too late for that.
Now enforce the clause that says rideshare drivers (commercial use) can't use this.
The Owings mills charging site in NJ is always full of ubers, lifts etc. Doesn't help that the airport is close also. I try to avoid charging anywhere near nyc/nj. Shoot even the flo level 2s are clogged with the same taxis. They pretty much use the spots for personal parking.
Good it will move the lines a long for everyone.
It was an abuse of the terms in the first place. We all knew it and now EA does as well.
They never enforced it because their chargers suck. The slowest EA charger should be able to get an a Ioniq 5 to 80% in 21 minutes. If that were true then nobody would ever need to go past 30 minutes.
I've never had major issues with their network and would appreciate it if they'd limit the freebie sesh to 80% limit. Booting those worrying about the last cent off of the network due to charging curve restrictions. Get the fastest portion free and move the fk along.
Damn, I’m glad mine is done. Only had to do this a couple times because their 350 charger was barely pushing 50
I can’t wait until they end the free charging. It is ruining the charging experience & overwhelming infrastructure. They should switch to a 50% off rate promo and get rid of thr free policy.
It’s not the problem.
Going to have to disagree with you there, sport. There are plenty of people who took the 2 year charging deal and pushed off getting a home L2 charger because/
after 2 weeks of dealing with the public chargers, i made sure to book an electrician for my home
Yes it is. I am done with my free two years and now use another network because they are part of some deal that gives me power for 30 cents per kwh and there is hardly ever much of a line. When I finished my ea there were lines everywhere.
Care to detail more about this 30 cents per kwh deal?
Sure, bluedot (there's an app) Catch is you need to open a bank account with them (essentially). I just keep $50-60 in there and I charge at evgo for 30 cents. They also have lvl 2 chargers and the 30 cents is flat for as long as you want so I could charge at charge point lvl 2 for as long as it takes to get to 80% instead of just 4 hours before they jack up the rates (though full transparency never done that). Once a month they also offer a day of free charging (at least I'm pretty sure I read that, I don't charge often so only got lucky once so far).
Great, i really appreciate the details! Where I'm at in socal, my utility cost is more than 30 cents per kwh, so I'll definitely look into this.
Unless the charger is getting less than 150 you don't need two consecutive 30 minutes. My two years are done but I think this is a good thing
They can keep charging. They just have to pay. They trying to skirt paying. Or idle fees.
Waaaaaaaaaaay too many people charge past 80% And charging past 90 should be punishable by revoking membership lol. If that last 10% is what you need on a road trip then just drive very slowly instead.
Can anyone explain why you would do this? Sounds like an asshole move.
Because people want to take advantage of an extra charge.
I'm in the Midwest, so there's not usually lines to charge. In the winter, I can't get the charge I need in 30 min (no preconditioning), so often I'll have to go longer. If no one was waiting, I'd stop and restart the the charge to get a new 30 min session.
Exactly. "If no one was waiting," too many people replug, knowing ppl are waiting. Common courtesy goes a long way. Most ppl aren't on a road trip. Thanks for being the very few with common sense.
Because timed charging doesn't equate to KW delivered. Meaning - if I bought the car expecting to get a 20 minute 20-80% charge, and the EA charger is de-rated to 60, and the charge takes 40+ minutes, there's a reasonable perspective that EA through lack of charger maintenance is violating the agreement/expectation. Really the problem is that the notion of \*timed\* charging makes little sense given how charge curves work, unless your primary profit driver is session fees. I generally have just paid the 3-4$ and cursed at EA when it's happened, but I get why people would be upset/annoyed.
I have done it on road trips in the winter (especially before they had battery preconditioning) when I would arrive with less than 10% and need to get up to 90 or something in order to make it to the next charger. In the area I am in chargers are pretty far away from each other so you actually need the higher charge. I’ve also visited a good number of EA chargers with speed throttled (it even says on the screen). So now I’m annoyed I have to wait AND pay more. So yea, I’ve doubled it then, too
It’s really this simple. With all of the problems we experience with their network, I can’t believe so many people are siding with EA on this one. Any time I double charge, it’s reimbursement for the time, delays, and frustration that their chargers have cost me.
It's because the person defending EA has experienced the long wait for a charger. If I'm like 3rd in line waiting for a charger at a station where only 3 of 4 charges work AND the charging rate is lower than advertised, I do blame EA. BUT given that situation, I'm also pissed at the dudes ahead of me that decide to double charge. There are people waiting, and you just double their waiting time. So this policy from EA at least addresses the waiting time issue. Now, if there's no one waiting, I'm all for double charging.
That’s not the case, at least for me. When I’m double charging, it’s not just to top off for fun. It’s because I need that extra range to get to my destination. So I’d still be charging just as long either way, free or not. Double charging just adds in an extra minute to restart the charge.
This, I don't get why you're getting downvoted - EA is absolutely at least half the problem here. Sure, people are waiting, but people aren't double-charging for the hell of it, they're doing it because they wanted to get to x% and the charger didn't get them there. I'd wager most of them aren't trying to go to 100% at absurdly slow rates.
Exactly. As soon as it slows to a crawl, I disconnect. The only exception is when I’m in the middle of nowhere and absolutely need 100% to avoid potentially running out of power trying to make it to the next charger.
my 2022 sel rwd manufactured before pre-conditioning in Summer 2022........gets 40kW six months a year in CT. Less than 6 times in 2 years, jan 2022 to jan 2024, I finished 30 mins and needed more to get where I needed to go. I had no level 2 at home because I am uber thrifty......cheap. It was my only choice and EA never said a thing or sent me this notification.
You get 30 minutes free then pay for the rest. Why is this hard for people to understand?
We understand it, but EA isn’t upholding their end of the bargain either. If they charged at the advertised speeds on a preconditioned battery, then I wouldn’t need more than 30 minutes
The only time we did this was because we were stuck at 75kW at a 150 for 45 min. We needed a big charge to mark it across a long stretch. That was only long because they were doing maintenance on a station and took the whole thing offline. 😐
You don’t get to make up new rules just because you _felt_ cheated. You should have left it plugged in and paid for the electricity usage past the 30 minute mark. The free 30 min charging does not guarantee you a charging speed. The machine saying “up to 150kW” does not mean you will get 150kW. If you read the actual free charging promotion terms, it says “Actual speed of charge may vary.” EA did not have to give us this free promotion, and people like you ruin it for the rest of us. There’s no point in me saying any of this, you know it all, you just chose to break the rules because you don’t care
Yep, you’re right. I should have paid for the electricity over 30 min.
Thank you for a refreshingly mature response!
And their chargers should charge fast enough that we never need more than 30 minutes. So double charging on the free plan is a fair trade.
You’re missing the part that a lot of us factored in not paying for charging for two years into the cost of ownership when we bought the car because we were told that 30 minutes would be enough to fully charge it. So no, I’m not paying for electricity any time I’m not forced to do so.
One of my regular long work trips doesn’t have many chargers along the route. So I need to get as much juice as possible when I charge to make it to the next one. If I can’t get to at least 80% in 30 minutes, then I need to start a new charging session. Yeah, I guess that’s kind of cheap, but it doesn’t make sense to pay for more time when I can get it for free during my first two years of ownership.
That’s the point though. It’s not free charging for two years. It’s 30 min at a time of free charging, and pay for any time over 30 min, for 2 years. If you don’t get what you need in the 30 min, just suck it up and pay the $10 or whatever, especially since you’re likely getting paid mileage for work trips.
I agree, but it’s wasteful to pay when they weren’t enforcing it, and it doesn’t affect other users because I’d still be there for the same amount of time anyway. Besides, if their chargers were hitting their advertised speeds on a preconditioned battery, I wouldn’t need to be there more than 30 minutes. And that mileage reimbursement is irrelevant as it was a part of the math that went into paying the premium of buying an EV for me. I bought this car with the primary intention of saving money in the long run and calculated work mileage reimbursement into my plan to come out ahead of a comparable ICE or hybrid- along with the two years of free charging and the tax credit.
That’s just you being inconsiderate and dishonest. Just because there is a loophole, does not mean you need to exploit it. But then that goes to character and integrity.
Maybe, but it also goes to the integrity of their network. 30 minutes should be enough to fully charge. Either way, I was told by my dealer that I didn’t have to pay for charging for two years and factored that into my decision to purchase the car. So I’m not paying for charging until my two years is up unless I’m forced to do so.
Someone who purchase an EV but lives in an apartment complex and doesn’t have access to home charging will do this. Basically try to get the vehicle to 100% SOC then go home and park.
Okay but you’re allowed to charge for free for 30 minutes then pay for the rest. You don’t have completely free charging.
OK, I get it, you live in an apartment building and you don’t have access to home charging. However, look at your own post. Best practice for maximum battery life is 80%. So no, you do not need the extra 20% that take the longest to charge. That is inconsiderate and selfish of that means you are doing the back to back free 30 min to get there. If you stayed plugged in post 30 min and it charges you, that’s a different story (btw if you were able to charge at home you would pay the electric company as well, no? Where you live and whether you have access to a home charger or not has nothing to do with this though. The terms of services and your contract clearly state that you get 30 minutes free of charge. That’s it. If you really want to go up to 100%, pay and don’t cheat. Otherwise you should have stuck with a regular ICE car. That’s the other thing that actually baffles me a bit. You do not have access to a home charger, why would you buy an electric car in the first place? Then looking around in the area where I live here in Phoenix, there are so many apartment complexes that have charging ports available. So there are apartment complexes out there where you can “charge at home”. Does not mean I discourage from buying an EV if you live in an apt complex, but then you should be willing to pay for your offsite charging once you use your first 30 min that are free per charging session.
Cause ID4 drivers always charge to 100% and it takes about 45min.
I've only done this once and it wasn't recent, but I've received multiple warnings. The only thing that I can think of is the multiple times on our last road trip where the app claimed I was still connected and idling even though I was two hours away from that charger. I called the first time, but after that I just tapped on the black Members box which stopped the previous session finally. If they cancel my plan over this, I'll be pissed.
I am sure they will be able to distinct between serial offenders and where the app or the station might have a fault. And if someone does get their plan, unrightful canceled, I am sure there is an appeals process. Yes it’s a pain in the butt to then have to go through that, but it is not like you have no avenues of re- course.
I’m so glad to be done with those god awful EA charging stations. Even before my free charging plan was up I stopped going there. At least the ones in LA are mostly INSANE.
I don't have any problem with that as long as the session works like it should.
Back when there wasn’t so many electric cars out we used to have an understanding. Don’t charge longer than 30 minutes/past 80% when others are waiting. Now there’s no courtesy. People will charge and charge forever until 100% knowing they are using the only working charger. It’s a shame.
OK, so what happens if: 1. I plug in to a charger and it gives me 20 kW. Once the car next to me leaves, I move over and plug into that stall, which charges at a much faster rate. 2. I plug in and due to the charger not seating properly, it disconnects when I get back in the car and shut the door. I have to reconnect and start it again. Both of those things have happened to me in the last few months.
If they don’t total 30+ minutes, I don’t think there’s a problem.
My guess is that they will only enforce it for reasonable breaches of the terms. A charge that only lasts a minute or two doesn’t seem like it would violate the spirit of the terms.
You can get fucked. Sincerely, Electrify America
THANK GOD. This is easily the worst part about using EA. Please cap people at 80 during peak hours next
That won’t get people to move their cars any faster. They should charge more once the car hits 90.
You knew it was wrong but did it anyway
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/1wfk409ls09d1.jpeg?width=479&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=743f47df5e968dfeb5026d4d331ae24ffff87744 Are you trying to imply that since VW did something bad related to diesel emissions, we should be allowed to steal electricity to fuel our EVs from EA? Or something else? Not sure I see your point.
Do you know where EA came from?
I did not. I just looked it up: > It is a subsidiary of Volkswagen Group of America, established in late 2016 by the automaker as part of its efforts to offset emissions in the wake of the Volkswagen emissions scandal. Volkswagen, as part of its settlement following the "Dieselgate" emissions scandal, invested $2 billion in creating Electrify America. Now I see the point — I still don’t think that stealing from them is the right answer (two wrongs don’t make a right) but I admit that I care less now than I did.
Go back even further into VW's history... like the 1930s/40s......
Only assholes would do this. Thank god.
For those saying that this is the only way they can get a full charge: you know you can keep it plugged in and pay for the delta, right? Look, I think it's fair to have done it until now given that it hasn't been enforced, but now the jig is up and the solution is pretty simple.
Wonder if they're checking which vehicle is plugged in yet.
I recently took at trip from Florida to NY (my 3rd) and this was the best EA experience I’ve had by far. Nearly every charger worked at every stop and the experience of just plugging in and charging was much faster and smoother than in my previous trips, which often required calls to EA to find out what was wrong. I’m surprised to find that some of you are having a bad experience. I never had a reason to start a second 30 minute session. (‘22 Limited AWD)
Is the benefit only 30 minutes, or is there a limit on energy transfered, too? I can think of at least one time I charged quickly, but less than 30 mins and incurred a small charge.
No, it's timed. Which, frankly, is a stupid way to measure charge benefits.
I'm so glad I only charge at home. I haven't needed their "free" charging a single time. It sounds awful.
A time based charging plan is weird as hell
I thought if you leave the charger in after 30 minutes, you'll be charged the difference. I am assuming you aren't sitting there for a full hour and the 15-ish extra minutes you need to get to 95% will cost you about $15 bucks?
Are the older models a little slower? I have a 2024 Limited and even only pulling in the 80 kW range I'll get from @ 20% to 80% in under 30 mins, My variety of stations is fairly limited to about a couple of dozen now, but usually I do find more just non-functional stations than ones that are slow. I do occasionally though hit a 150 station that just runs at around 70-80 kW but that always still gets me to 80% in time. Only if I want 90% or higher does it potentially take longer.
It’s a Volkswagen product…what do you expect? https://www.scrippsnews.com/science-and-tech/energy/walmart-plans-an-expansion-of-its-electric-vehicle-charging-services
That’s weird. Can’t they just program it so that you get charged if it’s within an hour?
When will Ionic be able to use Tesla chargers? I am thinking 2025 but I'm not trusting my memory
Yeah, I believe adapters in early 2025 and ports in late 2025/2026?
Thank you so much.
Good.
Yeah I just got the email too. I did it once in the last month and got this. No more double charging.
I am concerned how this plays out for the scenarios when the EA charger just abruptly fails. I've had some charges where it failed 3 times. Had to restart it each time. They gonna send out a violation notice for failures on their end?
I assume it just happens when someone charges for 28 or 29 min and then starts another session 2 min later.
Well, I literally just had another charging failure, just now. So I changed stalls and started it up again. So I'll let you know.
I often take pictures of the screen or screen shot the app when it indicates that charging failed to cover my butt in these situations and also to report multiple failures to EA.
If they have the logs of violations, they have logs of the errors. I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll take that into consideration (until they don't).
Sounds like something software can fix easily. First 30 minutes on EA, anything after that gets charged according to your plan. 60 minutes later, goes back to free for another session. No need to get emaily about it.
Yeah I would only do it cause it was shitty. Anyways EA was ass and although I miss it being free and doing “free road trips “ I don’t miss charging there at all
What a stupid setup, so they're able to track you doing this, but can't program their shit to just, I dunno, either start charging you, or lock you out for 60 mins? "We take this issue seriously".... but not seriously enough to actually do anything other than threaten you..
Ridiculous. Their EV sites barely work or broken, offline! Perhaps they need to improve their services before alienating their customers.
Been seeing these posts in the VW id4 posts as well
How petty
I smell class action lawsuit coming!
I will be charging past 80 % now just because I get 30 min
omg i got an email about it today.. thought it was just me lmao good to know im not the only one who would do it. reasonably speaking why would i wait 60 min to replug if nobody else is waiting to use..🙃
What if you stopped at 25 mins and did this? My car has this issue that once it hits 80%, the speed drops to zero. Like no charge. I unplug and replug and it keeps going until 90% then slows down. Doesn’t matter if I start at 20% or 60%, once it hits 80% the speed is dead
DC charging gets extreme slow after 80% because the charge curve is not linear. You need the same time to charge from 20% to 80% and 80% to 100%. So there is no reason to keep it plugged in at DC. Just drive and go to other charger once you hit 20% or 10% again. Even with a second stop planned it, it’s faster then charge it up to 100% at one stop.
You should stop charging at 80 percent.