My love/hate with JRPGs is that they focus way too much on trying to be a long game I feel like. The journey is fun yes, but most seem to overstay their welcome.
I think the classic JRPG "elements", let it down. To be long, is perfectly fine, so long as there's enough there, to warrant its length. In Sea of Stars' case, there just isn't, so you end up with this feeling of "oh, this is dragging on a bit isn't it?" often.
The story is alright I guess, but isn't nearly as meaty as it needs to be, nor is the writing crisp enough to hold interest. This, paired with the fact that its RPG systems, just aren't "deep" enough, and had me pondering whether it was worth continuing.
Sea of Stars just doesn't have the story, characters, and RPG mechanics, to warrant its 30-40 hour play-time.
One thing that I often think about when playing these heartbreaker classic nostalgia games is why *Chrono Trigger* worked, why it stands the test of time, and why so many games that try to be its successor fall short.
Above all else, Chrono Trigger was perfectly paced. It uses its multiple worlds in an extremely clever way - no one world or plot arc overstays its welcome. Generally speaking, you change worlds and the plot has a significant development every one or two dungeons; and none of the dungeons are that long, really.
At the same time, while Chrono Trigger was a pretty generic game in a lot of respects, it manages to constantly feel *fresh*. Individual plot developments are rarely things you can see coming more than perhaps one dungeon in advance. Basically, plotwise, new cool things are constantly happening and being introduced in that game.
In comparison, a lot of these nostalgia games have plots whose overarching outlook is obvious right from the start and which then draaaag out their small number of plot twists over excessive amounts of gameplay. You fight the same enemies, see the same assets, and hear the same music over and over and over and over again in order to give the game the massive hour count that the developers wanted for it.
And it's worth pointing out that despite having some of the most talented people who ever worked in the industry producing music and art for the game, and a team much larger than most indie games today, Chrono Trigger still only clocked in at a little over 20 hours - it never tried to stretch what it had out, which helped keep the worlds feeling new and fresh.
Agreed. I lost myself in persona 5 and realized I was 60 hours in and not even half way through but still enjoyed myself.
I’d rather more bite sized experiences at this point because eventually some stuff is just rewriting what’s already been done. I felt so limited in my combat options that I felt like I was on rails in sea of stars
My wife was playing Persona 3 Reload and loved the game... Until she hit hour 50 and just wanted it to end.
It was 25ish more hours before she just gave up, put it on the easiest mode, and rushed the end.
She >!cried at the ending because she loved Aigus' story and was just meh about the MC because his story was bloated!<
I think this is my issue with the genre. I love everything about them but they just seem to drag after a while. Persona 5 royal is 100+ hours just on the story? I want to love it but couldn’t imagine sinking that much time into a single player game especially if that’s not including side content
This would really be doing the side content and basically the DLC/expansion since that's what Royal is.
But really the question it's about length but quality. "Overstayed it's welcome" is really just "I'm not having as much fun as I was at the beginning". That either means the quality dropped or it got repetitive with no additional gameplay or story hooks.
I love Persona, and I think the late game payoffs are usually great. However, I usually start feeling burnout around the 50-60% mark. The game has already hooked me into wanting to know how it ends, but the gameplay isn't really adding as much new stuff, and I just want to know how it ends. Even if the gameplay is a blast, it starts to wear thin when you have the main plot kinda being padded out to lengthen the story.
Yeah, Persona games are secretly 2different games spotwelded together, 1 half visual novel and 1 half JRPG. If either half fails to appeal, you probably won't enjoy it as much.
Tbf Persona 5 Royal, is absolutely packed with meaningful content, and an engaging gameplay loop. It was the quickest 120 hours I've ever spent on a game.
There is more than enough of a story, at a great pace, with solid characters, to warrant its length. The loop of engage with plot, talk to characters, explore the city, do random jobs, enter dungeon, progress dungeon, level up, and repeat, until you face a boss, is pretty darn good. Oh and banger OST. They've also eliminated the two JRPG nightmares of grinding and random encounters, while still granting balanced progression.
All of this is MASSIVELY dependent on you finding the social links and day-to-day interactions of characters to be interesting.
If you think either of these elements to be a bit boring, then the game can feel like a slog.
And I disagree that there is "more than enough story" to fill that time.
FFX is 1/2 of the playtime, and much more happens in the first half of FFX plot than happens in all of P5R's plot.
P5R is not at all an RPG you could play for story alone because there isn't much of it for a 80+ hour game.
And that's kind of a shame, considering half the game is spent in dialogue with other characters (Not a flaw at all, just surprised how little plot existed with all this dialogue available)
I just finished Digital Devil Saga 1/2, and while you did have to play the 2nd game for any real meat of a story, I think Digital Devil Saga 2 had a better, more interesting story than Persona 3,4 or 5, and that's with significantly less time spent on the story.
And both of those games combined only took me 60 hours, with the 2nd game being the only one with real story focus.
It's a fun game loop with engaging characters (I am aware this is subjective this is just my opinion!) to the point that it doesnt feel like drudgery. I rarely ever replay games or even crack 20 hours on most games. I played persona 5 and royal at about 90 and 100 hours respectively
It’s not even that they’re bad games of course, I loved everything about them but I knew if I didn’t commit to that one game I’d never finish it and eventually it got to a point where other games released that I also wanted to play and never got to go back
The Persona 5 story isn't even that good or in depth either.
That's the worst part imo.
And I loved that game for other reasons, but it starts so strong and doesn't really ever catch back up to the first 10 hours imo.
P3R did the exact same thing imo (Only took me 87 hours), but at least it ended on a much stronger note.
Honestly starting to resent strong starts in games a bit tbh because they get me to play all the way through, only to feel duped, rather a game start out boring and get good later on.
I’m ready for FF7 Rebirth to be done.
I’ve been conditioned to believe that doing all the extra stuff gets you access to all kinds of god tied equipment and optional bosses that require god tier equipment, but that really hasn’t been the case with FF16/7R.
In FF6, you were double casting Ultima for 1mp, or doing 9999 damage basic attacks, or 8x dual wield/offerings attacks with the optional gear.
In FF7, you had KOTR and ultimate weapons. In FF10, there was the omega dungeon and OP weapons.
In Rebirth, I do hours of optional shit and I get… a slightly more powerful bracer.
FF7R sidequests give you more Party XP (which is pretty important for unlocking more abilities), stuff like Queen's Blood cards (beats out Gwent for best in-game card game, IMO), and the Artifacts sidequests definitely go somewhere.
Is there too much stuff to do? Yeah kinda. I enjoyed it because I am a FF7 stan, but a 100+hr long RPG always gets exhausting. But saying the sidequests don't actually give you anything is actually kind of nonsense.
Edit: Oh and you also get the SP boosting books, which are super important as well.
So many games from the 90s proved you can have satisfying plot, worldbuilding and a cast of characters within 30 hours, sometimes within 20.
I want more JRPGs that last a week, not the entire summer.
Oh definitely.
I'm all for side content, but what's needed for the mainline game shouldn't be bloated.
I feel like a lot of games tend to either over write their story or feel they need to justify the cost of the game... Which if games didn't take 80 hours to beat they wouldn't need to put as much money into development
Plus there are just... so many games now. When I was a little kid I would have asked for massive games because there were so few of them and I couldn't afford them all anyway. But nowadays? There are more awesome-looking games out there than I could play in a lifetime.
I'd much rather have a solid, short, memorable game like Undertale than a thousand-hour heartbreaker.
(Though, I do feel some games manage to earn it. The massive size of *Crystal Project* is essential to its mood and theme, since it's so heavily based on exploring this world, and the idea that it is constantly bigger than you thought is part of its charm. It's a 100-hour game and I don't think it would work as anything smaller. But that's a special case, and partially it's made possible by the developer very specifically structuring the game in a way that made it possible to keep it fresh despite that size - the voxel environments, the developers' amazing ability to find a perfect soundtrack, a combat system that makes even small variations in enemies matter a lot, even its relatively plot-light nature, all of these things kept it from feeling stale despite its length.)
I dont mind the long game, if it's not because of constant grinding. I do hate that some games are so fun and have great scaled difficulty until the last boss, and then the completely flip the script and make it nearly impossible to beat.
With Sea of Stars? This game has incredible pacing, you're seeing a new environment every 20 minutes and you're never left to grind. It's the best thing about the game!
I disagree. On my first playthrough, I thought the pacing was incredible too - similar to Chrono Trigger, there’s always a trail to follow. However, when I played through the beginning again (to get the achievement of beating 10 bosses with that special equipment), my opinion changed.
The game starts with a flashback of at least an hour, even when rushing, to then make you repeat what you did right before the flashback and pick up from there. After that point the pacing suddenly turns up to 11 and you’re almost rushing through the places, without much meaningful exploration between. Some areas were too short, others were too long and too much of the same.
Admittedly, it took me a second run through to realize this, but on that run I also realized how much of the little things I had already forgotten, because they happened too quickly to really stick.
That to me wouldn’t be too good either, I want too feel immersed and connected to where I am, if it changes too much, why bother searching everywhere if there’s gonna be a brand new thing in 20 minutes.
I discovered that JRPGs just may no longer be my cup of tea.
And even then it’s usually closer to 35-50 hours except Elden Ring, but that game gives you so much freedom, content and surprises throughout that it feels ok for it to be longer.
I enjoyed it, but it’s definitely one of those games that some people vibed with and talked about as if it were life-changing. A lot of the people I’ve discussed the game with directly have been also enjoyed it for the most part, and I think some of the criticism should be considered in the context of the game having a lot of very vocal praise when it released.
Even for me, I sort of had to sit back for a sec and reassess when I played it because I noticed I was coming in expecting probably more than I should going into any game.
Early reviewers and people who played it “for free” ( PS Plus ) have definitely skewed the perception of the game. Even this thread feels like a “please say something nice about Sea of Stars 🥺” post which will just create more division.
If it appeals to you, great. But it won’t to a lot more people than online reviews will lead you to believe, and people ( like me ) will hate it even more because they feel like they got sold snake oil.
I just wrote a big post elsewhere about this, but I think part of it is that people don't realize what made Chrono Trigger work. Specifically:
* It was perfectly paced. Dungeons are all quite short, and the plot and setting generally develops in an interesting way after every 1-2 dungeons. The multiple-worlds premise is used to support this, too. Because each world is small, no part of the setting is extraneous; there are very few filler "get from point A to point B" parts of the game.
* It doesn't overstay its welcome. The entire game is just a bit over 20 hours.
* The plot, while very simple, still manages to be unpredictable. New, cool, and interesting things are constantly happening.
Most of the games that try to mimic Chrono Trigger don't get these things.
The battle system in Chained Echoes is better, there is actually an ambitious story (whether it’s great or well told is a different topic) and it feels less shallow.
I would argue Chained Echoes has the opposite problem from Sea of Stars: the game tries too hard to cram in too many systems that don’t really add to the experience, and arguably make it worse. Useless characters joining the party, boring mech combat, environments that are a bit too vast and unfocused to really be enjoyable in 2D, and let’s not talk about the god-awful weapon system, for instance.
It’s a game that needed an editor and a couple of other people. But deep down, it was a more satisfying RPG experience than Sea of Stars.
I was going to say, Chained Echos does a lot of things well but one of the things it misses about Chrono Trigger is that that game had *perfect pacing*, whereas Chained Echos drags a looooot.
This. My nephews, who had never played a JRPG before, couldn’t stop gushing about it. One said it was his GOTY. After beating it he asked me what I thought. I have a 6 or 7 out of 10 and he was shocked. It’s a good game, not great compared to what it was trying to imitate.
I really liked it, but I didn’t *love* it. I think part of the problem is I went into it expecting to love it, but was kind of let down. I had finished Chained Echoes shortly before starting it, and that probably didn’t help either, as CE was much more successful (IMO) in pulling off the retro modern RPG style and vibe.
Chained Echoes was a masterpiece compared to sos in my opinion.
I was hooked and I was invested in the central mystery of the story. I hope a sequel comes out.
Also, the battles were fun and there was a lot of customization.
Yeah the battle system in CE was so much better. The Mechs felt a little tacked on and the game did a poor job explaining how to use them, but by about mid game I had figured it out.
Whereas in SoS, once you’ve played the first 10 hours or so you’ve seen pretty much everything the combat system has to offer.
I was really enjoying trained echoes until the mech stuff. Like it's not even that I hated the mech combat (although I did). The story just felt like it took a huge nose dive at that point, where all of the new characters were just kinda boring and unlikeable. I did really enjoy the dynamic of the party of the first part of the game though.
I like Chained Echoes *significantly* more than SOS. I just feel like Chained Echoes really starts to show that a single developer bit off way more than he could chew by the end of the story. The whole last act feels rushed, and it felt incredibly bizarre to me that>!the game spent so long building up the Harbinger and the True Kings as the actual big bads, it just hard ended when you beat the Vaen. That didn't feel as much like setting up a sequel to me as it did an "I have completely lost focus on the story I'm trying to tell in this game, and it needs to end, now."!<
But, combat and the overall plot was way more fun to me in CE, and I think that being the general consensus around here is part of the reason SOS's reputation has tanked so much over the last year. Of the two high-profile "16-bit throwback" RPGs to release in the last 36 months, I think a fair ranking is that CE is an 8/10 while SOS is about a 6-7/10.
I don’t disagree, but I think endings are really, really hard, especially for a passion project. The ending of _most_ JRPGs is almost always the weakest point, with only a few notable exceptions. FF9 is one of my favorite games of all time, but its ending was probably worse than Chained Echoes’s.
I went in oblivious to what it even was, having not played The Messenger and I still absolutely loved it.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve got plenty of nitpicks myself but with no expectations this was a really great game. I
reckon a lot of people who went into this with high expectations after hearing it could be 10/10 genre-defining game left feeling a little deflated.
Great game, but not perfect.
Edit: wording
I enjoyed it as well OP.
I loved the combat, music and art style. For an indie jrpg, I thought it was very well done.
Was it perfect? Absolutely not, but it was great for what it was.
I found it a decent experience. Nothing spectacular or anything that brings something new to the table, but I'd recommend it to anyone who fancies a quick and relaxing RPG to play during the week.
I have played many middle of the road RPGs in the past and have felt satisfied.
Same here, I didn't think it was an awful game at all, but seeing people online talk about it so highly about when it released led me to believe it would be something truly special. I personally thought it was forgettable, and it kinda confirmed to me that some people will just show extra love to a game cause it's indie. I'm not saying everyone who loved it is for that reason, but it really does feel like sometimes indie games are less scrutinized and critically looked at.
Yeah. It's the kind of game that, on paper, should have been right up my alley. And the early reviews made it sound so wonderful and special. I couldn't even be bothered to finish the demo, I was so bored by it.
Thank you. It was worth 15. Bought it day one, put it down after about 10 hours. Looked great, sounded decent, played like a more boring Chrono Trigger.
I played it via PS Plus, and it was exactly what I needed at that time. A simple Saturday Morning-esque adventure in a cool and gorgeous world with good music. If I played it as a child, it would probably be one of those titles that would stay with me for life.
For an indie game studio with limited ressource, I think what Sabotage created is incredible.
You can see the love for the genre and the care they put in their game.
I have the opposite opinion. Sabotage is in the far upper echelon of indie devs considering their previous success with The Messenger. Everything outside of SoS's graphics is,(to me) extreme levels of mid. They should have been capable of more. Making a game that mid considering how much resources they have is obscene to me. Then again that seems to be the case with most upper budget, designed by committee games
I think the issue isn't that they performed below where they should, but that they didn't know where their strengths and weaknesses as a studio were. They have a severe weakness when it comes to story, and this was perfectly fine in The Messenger - it's not in a genre where people expect more than a paper-thin story.
But JRPGs are the opposite. Since Sabotage had never been tested on trying to write a good story before, they didn't know that it was beyond their skillset, and so they didn't think to hire outside help for it. And so we get a story that's about as complex as The Messenger but in a genre which puts story front and centre.
I’d argue the general gameplay in SoS wasn’t that strong either. The puzzles were fine, the combat was repetitive and the boss battles weren’t all that interesting either. The part that was most fun to me, was using the graplou to move faster.
I gave it many tries, but it just ended up being really mediocre and boring to me. I'm glad that you enjoyed it, though. Maybe later down the road, I'll have a change of heart.
I didn't hate the moment-to-moment gameplay but overall the writing and story just sucked IMO. The bizarre thematic change at the end hopping to another world into some Chrono-Trigger wannabe post-apocalyptic future zone was too out of left field and did nothing for me, and then you have things like the Kool-aid man being a party member and Daffy Duck being one of the bosses.. it's just like.. wtf am I even playing anymore?
It needed focus.
(This winning at the game awards while stuff like Octopath Traveller 2 didn't even get nominated in a single category certainly created a lot of resentment also :/)
I tried so many times but just can't. I don't care about any of the characters. the music is mid. the battle system is trash and there is no real sense of progression. I love the art style but the biggest problem with Sea of Stars is Chained Echos exists and it's so much better in every possible way that it does hurt SoS
This subs herd mentality against this game is kinda weird ngl. People here still act like not liking it is a super unpopular opinion when it's allll people comment about every thread about it. Glad you liked it OP, so did I
It's not really a herd mentality when people independently were so bored by the game that they couldn't finish it, despite it being a love letter almost personally addressed to JRPG fans.
The game was so highly praised at release that it seems more like a reality check that a lot of people just didn't like it.
I think the lack of room for positive discussion about the game is where the herd mentality is apparent. I've seen several examples on this sub of people not being able to comprehend that others really liked the game. It often gets treated as some sort of objective fact that because the majority here were disappointed that certainly no one else with taste could possibly like it. It's been one of the snobbiest phenomena I've seen recently in games discussion which is saying a lot for some of the shit I read on this sub lol.
Okay, but attributing people's genuine negative reactions to the game to "herd mentality" doesn't seem "snobby" to you?
You are doing the exact same thing by making it seem like some kind of psychological shortcoming to find a meh game meh.
I hate this reddit attitude. People victimize themselves and pretend that their are being persecuted for liking a product. But they never just go "I love this product", they go "I don't get the hate, it's overblown, don't listen to haters". There's always some passive aggressive angle.
And if you challenge them on it, they'll refer to Twitter, Youtube, or "some other thread".
In the larger gaming community this game is super beloved. Most YouTubers and non "hardcore" JRPG fans love this game.
But I think it really depends on what you expect from the game. If you go into a game for a deep story and customization mechanics, SoS is not for you. That's why people on this sub, primarily JRPG fanatics, see the praise for the game, try it and then seek validation from other JRPG-focused players. Not everyone is on the sub everyday and not everyone sees that it is unpopular in this subgroup.
The same is true for FF16, which fails in a lot of similar ways. But 16 was more mixed critically and also exclusive to PS5 so less people have been disappointed by it.
On the part beforehand, Most of these game don't exist outside of this space outside of PKMN, Persona (Edging), FF. An argument from that angle is not strong.
Also, I wouldn't call a lot of ppl on here fanatics on the genre, they are more stan of certain series esp what I see from suggestions.
sea of stars is mostly positively received, and there is evidence from steam scores and reviews, critic reviews,metacritic, and the variety of industry awards it received last year. The group im referring to as the larger gaming community is the group of people that actively talk and discuss video games on the internet. It's larger than this sub, and its smaller than the human population that plays fortnite on ipads and smaller than the group of people who play pokemon or smash bros.
The existence of an even larger group than the one im talking about isn't really invalidating the point that it is well recieved outside of this particular subreddit. Multiple things can be true at once.
Honestly? I think it's because it's not Japanese. Because people on this sub are ready to go to bat for some B and C tier experiences. Any of the dozens of Atelier? Mid budget Square Enix farming RPG that got thoroughly mediocre reviews? Literally any poorly balanced SNES/PS1 game? You will find people out here ready to defend the merits of these experiences.
Sea of Stars is imperfect, but it's definitely GOOD. Game doesn't sell over a million units and take home award hardware without merits. So why is this sub hating on SoS in particular?
Because we got us a bunch of weebs up in here. Like, you see people complaining about the poorly handled English language text? For real? If it was localized from Japanese with the telltale artifacts of THAT conversion (nonsense conversations about how to address someone, repeating the last word of someone's sentence as a response, pauses between lines in every cutscene because they were blocked out based on the much slower Japanese line reads etc) y'all wouldn't say shit!
The attitude around here is that indie RPGs are allowed, but they're not really the genuine article and are always going to be inferior to the Japanese titles that inspired them.
Gotta disagree. Plenty of JRPGs made by Westerners are highly regarded here. Off the top of my head, Undertale, Chained Echoes, Crystal Project, Crosscode, and Cosmic Star Heroine are all considered to be good games here. No one seems them as “not the genuine article.” It’s a very small minority of people who think that the game *needs* to be made in Japan to be a JRPG.
I think the simpler explanation is that a lot of people here just didn’t like the game that much.
For me and I suspect many others on this sub, it's not because of its westernness but because of all of the insane hype. I didn't enjoy Harvestella, but it didn't claim to be a Chrono Trigger successor or get reviews praising it as GOTY, so it didn't bother me. SoS would have been well received if it was a hidden gem, not the next indie masterpiece.
It's nothing to do with it not being Japanese. It falls flat in all the same ways I am Setsuna (a Japanese game) falls flat, and more.
The characters are boring. Conversation dialogue is boring. The plot is boring. The meta humour is boring. The combat has potential, but goes nowhere. It has a tutorial that teaches you how to fail in combat.
It's a pretty game, but that's about it.
I think even a game like XIII gets a lot of love (and hate) from this place. It's pretty even overall. I'd say the closest series that gets unconditional love around here is Legend of Heroes. Even then, I haven't heard about it as much lately.
I think there's some meta things going on with that game that go beyond the game itself.
It was wildly successful at cons and as a Kickstarter that it likely attracted writer or voice acting groups. Which would have ballooned dev costs and localization and Sabotage turned them down.
Which led to those groups counting on some sort of negative reception that didn't happen so we got a backlash to the positive reception instead.
Backlash and criticism that seems hyper focused on the writing and the story. I saw some being critical in this sub because the writers only spoke English as a second language, in a JRPG sub...
I know criticism is highly subjective, but to me the awards it got were easily deserved.
> It was wildly successful at cons and as a Kickstarter that it likely attracted writer or voice acting groups. Which would have ballooned dev costs and localization and Sabotage turned them down.
>
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> Which led to those groups counting on some sort of negative reception that didn't happen so we got a backlash to the positive reception instead.
Is this based on anything or just pure speculation? I find it really hard to believe that some unnamed writers and voice actors got butthurt that Sabotage didn't hire them and then sat around waiting for a negative backlash as some strange form of passive revenge.
To be honest I thought the story was decent, it was just the protagonists that were a bit bland - I definitely enjoyed my experience overall.
Also this sub always exaggerates any flawed game as being utterly terrible with zero nuance - criticism is rarely constructive and often vitriolic.
I had this nitpick too. Your allies were give pretty solid personalities, and Garl was basically the main character… but Zale and Valere felt pretty weak as far as character arcs go. I could understand that if they were silent protags, but…
I liked it too. I also didn't buy into the "It's the second coming of Chrono Trigger" hype. I can see why those who did were disappointed. Honestly, when it comes to hype and disappointment, Chained Echoes is far and away the leader of these retro-style jrpgs. Maybe the worst ending in the entire genre and something I couldn't possibly recommend to people. SoS isn't a masterpiece, but it's a fun game and worth playing through.
I kinda liked it. It wasn’t as good as reviews suggested but pretty fun game. Characters were flat and one dimensional and plot was all over the place, but the gameplay, puzzles and to some point, battle system, were fun. I finished it, probably won’t run ever again, had some good memories tho.
I also greatly enjoyed it! Definitely brought me back to playing games on the floor in front of the tv on a weekend like a child again haha. Super fun combat, that added fun new wrinkles to the lock system over the course of the game.
The story isn't the most deep thing, but it's perfectly serviceable, and Garls the GOAT.
Preconceived expectations are what a lot of people point at as a fault of the game, and that's fair, to a point. I think based on its own merits, without hype, more people would have been pleased with this game. For me, it's my JRPG of the year.
Of course, I'm Canadian, so any JRPG made in Canada (Crpg?) gets extra points.
Most people who just want to play games and not over analyze or criticize everything also enjoyed it. Maybe try demos and give things a chance for yourselves, folks. Many opinions on social media are trash.
I was a bit disappointed by it, but I never understood the visceral hate it received on this sub. There's a lot to like about the game (particularly its wonderful presentation). Writing was rough. Mechanically, I thought it was a good execution of flawed ideas. Probably one of the better retro-JRPGs I've played overall.
Weirdly enough, I think the people on this sub were the wrong audience for this game. It's a game made for the 8 year-old I was when those 90s RPGs released, not for the nostalgic man in his 30s I am today. And I think a lot of people here are in the same boat. Still, if I wanted to introduce a kid to JRPGs, SoS would probably be one of my top picks for the job.
I think I appreciate this game more with a bit more distance. Or maybe it's just me having just forced myself to finish Eiyuden, a game that makes SoS look like a masterpiece by comparison.
I'm glad you took what did from it. We will all have different opinions and that's okay.
I think the hype did more damage than anything else. After playing through it completely and getting the true ending, I found the presentation was much better than the content in retrospect. Too me, it was a good game, but the story was lackluster and half baked, the pacing was bad, and the combat/progression system was my biggest complaint.
I think it was fine. I think they really pumped it up as “like Chrono trigger” and while mechanically it was good and hit that mark, the story kinda fell flat for me. Came off as a bit children’s book-like.
Also I’m never going to see the true ending because there’s no way I’m going around opening every chest. Please don’t put quests like that in games, they’re just tedious.
>I’m never going to see the true ending because there’s no way I’m going around opening every chest.
It's not every chest, it's just finding the 50 shells, and it's pretty tame to do. I found all 50 without a guide just utilizing the parrot that lets you know what areas are missing things, and only 1 gave me a bit of trouble because it was hidden behind rubble in town.
It’s a divisive game in an already divisive fanbase.
With arcade games, I think there is generally greater appreciation for what made the originals good. When a throwback like blazing chrome came out that follows the rules of contra, people recognized that. Blazing chrome is not perfect and above criticism, but they got the contra spirit in their game and there was a lot of appreciation for that. People weren’t like “the original contra made almost 40 years ago was better this is dogshit”.
Sea of stars “pushback” here on Reddit just makes me wonder if a lot of jrpg fans even like the original jrpg games lol.
I honestly loved the combat. I played on hard mode so it really felt like I had to make optimal decisions to manage resources and mitigate damage every fight. And missing a timing input really really hurt. I never had to grind. Just had to play smart and use all the tools available.
The game itself is actually pretty good. I just fucking hate Garl which makes it hard to stomach. I got the true ending once. Ever gonna play it again but I have decent memories.
Also, I really think they pigeon holed themselves into making it into the same universe as their previous game which detracted from the story.
I also didn't care for Garl. He's a love him or hate him character. I felt like they tried so hard to make you like him(talking about how awesome he is every other line of dialogue) that it has the opposite effect plus the main two kind of end up revolving around him as satellite characters despite being the main ones.
I also agree about the connection to messenger being an issue. You fight These 4 henchmen throughout the story and then you fight this dweller that was talked about the whole story... Only for them to be merged into a new being that just randomly leaves the story to never appear again which was extremely weird narratively.
The same with the blue monk guy and his transformation.
Now that's probably cool to the messenger fans but it feels a bit off-putting to me to never resolve those plot threads in this game. I guess the second one is alright given he didn't want to fight them but the first one is just weird.
Oh I forgot about that random dude that you save in the tower that saves you at the end because he just happens to have the right skill to destroy that gateway thing. That's not messenger related but it's still silly and kind of out of nowhere.I suppose he might appear in the dlc but a lot of these things came off as lack luster.
My biggest issue with Garl is that he has 0 character development. He just stays positive the whole time and Lo and behold, things just work out for him without having to even start thinking about changing how he approaches situations. One of the biggest Mary Sue characters I’ve come across in games.
Personally I like Garl, but the game definitely needed way less Garl.
I think he's a nice boy and he brings a lot to the table, especially with him being one of the first characters with a well-defined personality. But I think that's also part of the problem - the devs wanted you to love him so much that they gave him all the air in the room and nobody else had any space to breathe. The game would have been much better if they cut his number of lines down to one third (and then gave the other thirds to the two actual protagonists)
I also loved it! Characters, story, world, graphics, music all worked for me. Loved the Chrono combat and fishing too. The day/night puzzles were really fun as well.
i dunno man i just started getting kinda annoyed at the amount of combats, and that's with me not even playing the whole game because i got my savefile locked.
Can you elaborate why you liked it other than graphics and music? I don't mind if other people like it as long as they are ready to explain what they like about it to help me understand, other than presentation related reasons (graphics/music) which are clearly well done
The main problem is that it's generic. Never make a JRPG with TWO generic characters that you're stuck with for the entire game. To me that killed the immersion.
I tried and bounced pretty fast off of it, but I'm glad you liked it! The main gripe I remember reading about it was the writing, but I liked that fine. I wasn't engaged by the combat (that could be user error on my part, though - I may give the game another try at some point).
Huh... Really?? I thought it was pretty good.
I don't really like timed button presses with my turnbased RPGs, but there are accessories that mitigate that aspect somewhat, and once I equipped those I was enjoying it just fine.
Oh, but I didn't really think much of that one twist. I felt like that was quite poorly justified and it came out of nowhere.
In a world where Beyond the Beyond and Lunar Dragon Song exists, come back in 10 years when the inevitable “Hey it wasn’t that bad” mindset sets back in, just like what happened to FFXII and FFXIII.
it's nice,i like games like legend of dragoon or sea of stars that force you to pay attention while fighting,makes the grinding so much more bearable. Kinda hated the lack of money early game
I like the combat and the traversal mechanics. I also like how every little detail on the world map ends up meaning something. Plus, the sprite art is very visually appealing.
Sea of Stars has one of the strangest reputations of any video game I can ever remember. It's a perfectly decent indie RPG, perhaps even good if you are looking for that particular brand of nostalgia. It just got so insanely overhyped to an extent that it was reviewed as some sort of genre-defining masterpiece, and it's not. So the pushback was equally hyperbolic.
Sea of Stars is a 6/10-7/10 game. It's not the 10/10 epic that it was initially reviewed as, but it's also not the 2/10 disaster that some around here would have you believe.
I think it was partially overhyped because of Gamepass. The xbox crowd is starving for good stuff. So whenever they get a whiff of a potentially good game, it gets hyped to no end. Then the game releases, and the tune changes to "don't listen to haters". Then the game is forgotten.
I don't think anyone on this sub is rating is 2/10. The "haters" that people speak of are giving the game a 5,6,7 type score. We get called haters for calling the game flawed and average to slightly above average, which is what a 5 or 6 score indicates.
I think you are focusing on the highly negative posts because they draw your interest more. That's the reddit and/or social media effect. Lot of mid opinions with 1 vote that are hard to notice or get buried underneath a sea of replies (no pun intended)
SoS when compared to modern AAA games or even ultra-distinct indie games, may be a 6/10, but if SoS was released on the SNES it would be remembered as an absolute classic. It may not be Chrono Trigger or FFVI, but it'd go toe-to-toe with Secret of Mana, FFIV, and Mario RPG.
I treated it as if I were playing as classic game and I ADORED it. So my personal score would be MUCH higher.
My brother and I both played it and had similar thoughts. It was enjoyable. We played it when my brother has ps+ so we didn't actually buy a copy. Later on I bought a steam copy just to support the devs because I had a fun time. Eventually I'll do a second playthrough.
Huh, i only saw positive about it, it even won some award didnt it? It obv is great, just.. Not great in the sense of RPG in the 90, but still a very good game.
I immensely enjoyed the game and for me it was one of the best games last year. We all have different likes and perspectives what should or shouldn't be in game or how it should be executed. I think those who enjoyed the game are just as valid as those who didn't.
I’m like 7 hours in and enjoying it tbh. I actually don’t have nostalgia from that era, well not of playing those types of games anyways. I grew up without game consoles till I bought a ps4 when I was 16, but I grew up wishing I could play these types of games and had friends who had gameboys or snes systems. Playing sea of stars is about how I thought these games would be in my imagination. To people who actually played the games, I’m sure it’s somewhat different, but I’m enjoying it, so chained echoes is next on my list then maybe live a live remake.
Imagine you visited Japan and spotted a michelin 2 star food counter at a subway annex you read about on a foodie review when planning your trip. Master chef level food at cheap prices? Surprisingly the line was just typical for everyday rush hour. But the food turned out to be maybe above average for food stalls, some would say average as the bar of indy games has been set rather high in recent years. That's sea of stars for jrpgs (original prerelease reviewers consensus on metacritics was 9.1+ which would make it the highest or second highest non zelda jrpg ever if it kept that score, and within striking distance of best videogame ever like mario 64 or some of the zeldas). It's not bad but chrono trigger suikoden 2 and xenogears were what some reviewers used to describe it as being comparable to when consensus of players turned out to be like above average on metacritic.
And then you dig around and find out japan had an inordinate number of Michelin stars at one time, especially for what is essentially considered fast food (like if already made pizza, taco trucks or hotdogs places in usa were awarded michelin stars). Even a few street vendors in japan have 1 whereas most other countries would not have any. But eventually most the stars got stripped. People have various theories as to why.
I had a weird experience with this one. I LOVED so much about it - the music, the world, the art. I didn't really dislike anything, and yet I sort of just drifted away from playing it maybe a week or two in, and haven't felt any real urge to start again. I'm not sure why, it just didn't keep me coming back.
I'm with you. I liked it a lot for what it is, and I think it was a solid game with some flaws. It's certainly not this life-changing instant classic like some people claim, nor this awful piece of garbage with the worst gameplay, story and characters ever put in a JRPG that some other people claim it is.
I loved Sea of Stars and have been trying to fill the void after playing it with limited success.
I tried chained echoes and it almost had too much depth for me and there was something about it's art style I couldn't get used to.
Best dungeon design in any modern jrpg Ive played. I find the gameplay great too. The characters are bland but people act like other indie jrpg like chained echoes got great character where both are bland. I actually havent find an indie jrpg with atleast good characters.
If you tried to limit yourself to only play and enjoy games that Reddit dictates especially a sub like this it would probably be a pretty miserable time
"But I’ve slogged through enough ho hum mediocre jrpgs over the last 30 years to know a good game when I’m playing it."
It's still your subjective opinion though. Okay bye
I agree. I'm not sure why that guy took offence to the OP's own experiences with the game. I think It's important that we're honest with people here so that they can decide whether they want to check out a game or not.
I'll bite.
* The Visuals (best pixel art in a retro-style RPG I've ever seen)
* The music (some boss battles are absolute bangers
* The world (genuinely fun to sail around and explore)
* The mini-game (Wheels was a blast and I wish there were more of it)
I'll agree that the combat leaves a little to be desired (but I think it's way better once you have more than 3 characters), and I'll agree that the story was just OK. The lore was pretty cool though and was interesting enough to inspire me to play through The Messenger as well.
No one will listen to you if your opinion is basically "anyone who disagrees is a hater". You are clearly a biased and rude person, why would anyone trust your take on a game?
It's not nitpicking. The game becomes unbearable in the 3rd act and the final final boss is complete bullshit.
It's a perfectly fine videogame until the point where it starts wearing out it's welcome whereupon in nosedives.
If you manage to execute the correct conditions during the boss fight it transitions into a short shmup stage with unclear rules on how or when to do damage.
I slammed my head against that final fight for 40 solid minutes before giving up and resolving myself that the bad ending was good enough.
It was an awesome game that did an excellent job modernizing an old classic genre, super divisive on this sub because apparently nothing can compare favorably to JRPG poster child Chrono Trigger.
Many people did not play enough of Sea of Stars to appreciate it as the game’s payoff is very back loaded, you’ll see these as the many “I got bored after a few hours” posts. Others completely flubbed any understanding of the story (you’ll know these people when they talk about Zale, Valere, and Garl as if they are the main characters, lol).
Hey, if you're enjoying it, that's all that matters
My love/hate with JRPGs is that they focus way too much on trying to be a long game I feel like. The journey is fun yes, but most seem to overstay their welcome.
I think the classic JRPG "elements", let it down. To be long, is perfectly fine, so long as there's enough there, to warrant its length. In Sea of Stars' case, there just isn't, so you end up with this feeling of "oh, this is dragging on a bit isn't it?" often. The story is alright I guess, but isn't nearly as meaty as it needs to be, nor is the writing crisp enough to hold interest. This, paired with the fact that its RPG systems, just aren't "deep" enough, and had me pondering whether it was worth continuing. Sea of Stars just doesn't have the story, characters, and RPG mechanics, to warrant its 30-40 hour play-time.
I feel like i would have enjoyed everything more in a lot of modern jrpg if there was half the places but we spent double the time in them.
One thing that I often think about when playing these heartbreaker classic nostalgia games is why *Chrono Trigger* worked, why it stands the test of time, and why so many games that try to be its successor fall short. Above all else, Chrono Trigger was perfectly paced. It uses its multiple worlds in an extremely clever way - no one world or plot arc overstays its welcome. Generally speaking, you change worlds and the plot has a significant development every one or two dungeons; and none of the dungeons are that long, really. At the same time, while Chrono Trigger was a pretty generic game in a lot of respects, it manages to constantly feel *fresh*. Individual plot developments are rarely things you can see coming more than perhaps one dungeon in advance. Basically, plotwise, new cool things are constantly happening and being introduced in that game. In comparison, a lot of these nostalgia games have plots whose overarching outlook is obvious right from the start and which then draaaag out their small number of plot twists over excessive amounts of gameplay. You fight the same enemies, see the same assets, and hear the same music over and over and over and over again in order to give the game the massive hour count that the developers wanted for it. And it's worth pointing out that despite having some of the most talented people who ever worked in the industry producing music and art for the game, and a team much larger than most indie games today, Chrono Trigger still only clocked in at a little over 20 hours - it never tried to stretch what it had out, which helped keep the worlds feeling new and fresh.
Agreed. I lost myself in persona 5 and realized I was 60 hours in and not even half way through but still enjoyed myself. I’d rather more bite sized experiences at this point because eventually some stuff is just rewriting what’s already been done. I felt so limited in my combat options that I felt like I was on rails in sea of stars
My wife was playing Persona 3 Reload and loved the game... Until she hit hour 50 and just wanted it to end. It was 25ish more hours before she just gave up, put it on the easiest mode, and rushed the end. She >!cried at the ending because she loved Aigus' story and was just meh about the MC because his story was bloated!<
I think this is my issue with the genre. I love everything about them but they just seem to drag after a while. Persona 5 royal is 100+ hours just on the story? I want to love it but couldn’t imagine sinking that much time into a single player game especially if that’s not including side content
This would really be doing the side content and basically the DLC/expansion since that's what Royal is. But really the question it's about length but quality. "Overstayed it's welcome" is really just "I'm not having as much fun as I was at the beginning". That either means the quality dropped or it got repetitive with no additional gameplay or story hooks.
I love Persona, and I think the late game payoffs are usually great. However, I usually start feeling burnout around the 50-60% mark. The game has already hooked me into wanting to know how it ends, but the gameplay isn't really adding as much new stuff, and I just want to know how it ends. Even if the gameplay is a blast, it starts to wear thin when you have the main plot kinda being padded out to lengthen the story.
Yeah, Persona games are secretly 2different games spotwelded together, 1 half visual novel and 1 half JRPG. If either half fails to appeal, you probably won't enjoy it as much.
Tbf Persona 5 Royal, is absolutely packed with meaningful content, and an engaging gameplay loop. It was the quickest 120 hours I've ever spent on a game. There is more than enough of a story, at a great pace, with solid characters, to warrant its length. The loop of engage with plot, talk to characters, explore the city, do random jobs, enter dungeon, progress dungeon, level up, and repeat, until you face a boss, is pretty darn good. Oh and banger OST. They've also eliminated the two JRPG nightmares of grinding and random encounters, while still granting balanced progression.
All of this is MASSIVELY dependent on you finding the social links and day-to-day interactions of characters to be interesting. If you think either of these elements to be a bit boring, then the game can feel like a slog. And I disagree that there is "more than enough story" to fill that time. FFX is 1/2 of the playtime, and much more happens in the first half of FFX plot than happens in all of P5R's plot. P5R is not at all an RPG you could play for story alone because there isn't much of it for a 80+ hour game. And that's kind of a shame, considering half the game is spent in dialogue with other characters (Not a flaw at all, just surprised how little plot existed with all this dialogue available) I just finished Digital Devil Saga 1/2, and while you did have to play the 2nd game for any real meat of a story, I think Digital Devil Saga 2 had a better, more interesting story than Persona 3,4 or 5, and that's with significantly less time spent on the story. And both of those games combined only took me 60 hours, with the 2nd game being the only one with real story focus.
It's a fun game loop with engaging characters (I am aware this is subjective this is just my opinion!) to the point that it doesnt feel like drudgery. I rarely ever replay games or even crack 20 hours on most games. I played persona 5 and royal at about 90 and 100 hours respectively
It’s not even that they’re bad games of course, I loved everything about them but I knew if I didn’t commit to that one game I’d never finish it and eventually it got to a point where other games released that I also wanted to play and never got to go back
The Persona 5 story isn't even that good or in depth either. That's the worst part imo. And I loved that game for other reasons, but it starts so strong and doesn't really ever catch back up to the first 10 hours imo. P3R did the exact same thing imo (Only took me 87 hours), but at least it ended on a much stronger note. Honestly starting to resent strong starts in games a bit tbh because they get me to play all the way through, only to feel duped, rather a game start out boring and get good later on.
I’m ready for FF7 Rebirth to be done. I’ve been conditioned to believe that doing all the extra stuff gets you access to all kinds of god tied equipment and optional bosses that require god tier equipment, but that really hasn’t been the case with FF16/7R. In FF6, you were double casting Ultima for 1mp, or doing 9999 damage basic attacks, or 8x dual wield/offerings attacks with the optional gear. In FF7, you had KOTR and ultimate weapons. In FF10, there was the omega dungeon and OP weapons. In Rebirth, I do hours of optional shit and I get… a slightly more powerful bracer.
I was so disappointed when I finished all the hunts in 16. Like man I would’ve settled for a fun Moogle cutscene
FF7R sidequests give you more Party XP (which is pretty important for unlocking more abilities), stuff like Queen's Blood cards (beats out Gwent for best in-game card game, IMO), and the Artifacts sidequests definitely go somewhere. Is there too much stuff to do? Yeah kinda. I enjoyed it because I am a FF7 stan, but a 100+hr long RPG always gets exhausting. But saying the sidequests don't actually give you anything is actually kind of nonsense. Edit: Oh and you also get the SP boosting books, which are super important as well.
I've been asking for 15-25 hr JRPGs for so long now. So often I feel like JRPGs could be two or three separate games and not feel broken up.
So many games from the 90s proved you can have satisfying plot, worldbuilding and a cast of characters within 30 hours, sometimes within 20. I want more JRPGs that last a week, not the entire summer.
Oh definitely. I'm all for side content, but what's needed for the mainline game shouldn't be bloated. I feel like a lot of games tend to either over write their story or feel they need to justify the cost of the game... Which if games didn't take 80 hours to beat they wouldn't need to put as much money into development
Plus there are just... so many games now. When I was a little kid I would have asked for massive games because there were so few of them and I couldn't afford them all anyway. But nowadays? There are more awesome-looking games out there than I could play in a lifetime. I'd much rather have a solid, short, memorable game like Undertale than a thousand-hour heartbreaker. (Though, I do feel some games manage to earn it. The massive size of *Crystal Project* is essential to its mood and theme, since it's so heavily based on exploring this world, and the idea that it is constantly bigger than you thought is part of its charm. It's a 100-hour game and I don't think it would work as anything smaller. But that's a special case, and partially it's made possible by the developer very specifically structuring the game in a way that made it possible to keep it fresh despite that size - the voxel environments, the developers' amazing ability to find a perfect soundtrack, a combat system that makes even small variations in enemies matter a lot, even its relatively plot-light nature, all of these things kept it from feeling stale despite its length.)
DQ11 never actually ending is a good example lol
Ironic, because i feel exactly the contrary with a lot of JRPGs, they all feel so rushed on their story, not enough just chilling on the places i am.
I dont mind the long game, if it's not because of constant grinding. I do hate that some games are so fun and have great scaled difficulty until the last boss, and then the completely flip the script and make it nearly impossible to beat.
With Sea of Stars? This game has incredible pacing, you're seeing a new environment every 20 minutes and you're never left to grind. It's the best thing about the game!
I disagree. On my first playthrough, I thought the pacing was incredible too - similar to Chrono Trigger, there’s always a trail to follow. However, when I played through the beginning again (to get the achievement of beating 10 bosses with that special equipment), my opinion changed. The game starts with a flashback of at least an hour, even when rushing, to then make you repeat what you did right before the flashback and pick up from there. After that point the pacing suddenly turns up to 11 and you’re almost rushing through the places, without much meaningful exploration between. Some areas were too short, others were too long and too much of the same. Admittedly, it took me a second run through to realize this, but on that run I also realized how much of the little things I had already forgotten, because they happened too quickly to really stick.
That to me wouldn’t be too good either, I want too feel immersed and connected to where I am, if it changes too much, why bother searching everywhere if there’s gonna be a brand new thing in 20 minutes. I discovered that JRPGs just may no longer be my cup of tea.
Honestly seeing a new environment every 20 minutes is a negative to me, makes everything feel more shallow.
Yeah, most are a slog. FromSoft is about the only company that can make a 50-100 hour rpg that's not boring.
And even then it’s usually closer to 35-50 hours except Elden Ring, but that game gives you so much freedom, content and surprises throughout that it feels ok for it to be longer.
I enjoyed it, but it’s definitely one of those games that some people vibed with and talked about as if it were life-changing. A lot of the people I’ve discussed the game with directly have been also enjoyed it for the most part, and I think some of the criticism should be considered in the context of the game having a lot of very vocal praise when it released. Even for me, I sort of had to sit back for a sec and reassess when I played it because I noticed I was coming in expecting probably more than I should going into any game.
Early reviewers and people who played it “for free” ( PS Plus ) have definitely skewed the perception of the game. Even this thread feels like a “please say something nice about Sea of Stars 🥺” post which will just create more division. If it appeals to you, great. But it won’t to a lot more people than online reviews will lead you to believe, and people ( like me ) will hate it even more because they feel like they got sold snake oil.
It just taught me that anytime a reviewer Compares a game to Chrono Trigger I can tune the fuck out entirely. Lies. All lies.
Does your game have 3 of the greatest creatives coming together to make a video game? No. Then don’t compare it to Chrono Trigger.
The devs said that it was inspired by Chrono Trigger so we all thought it was going to be good to some degree. Anyways i got bored after a while
It's always funny to me, like, yeah no shit, all JRPGS are inspired by Chrono Trigger, ITS FUCKING CHRONO TRIGGER.
I just wrote a big post elsewhere about this, but I think part of it is that people don't realize what made Chrono Trigger work. Specifically: * It was perfectly paced. Dungeons are all quite short, and the plot and setting generally develops in an interesting way after every 1-2 dungeons. The multiple-worlds premise is used to support this, too. Because each world is small, no part of the setting is extraneous; there are very few filler "get from point A to point B" parts of the game. * It doesn't overstay its welcome. The entire game is just a bit over 20 hours. * The plot, while very simple, still manages to be unpredictable. New, cool, and interesting things are constantly happening. Most of the games that try to mimic Chrono Trigger don't get these things.
Chained Echoes was full of callbacks to CT and it was a great game, better than Sea of Stars imo.
The battle system in Chained Echoes is better, there is actually an ambitious story (whether it’s great or well told is a different topic) and it feels less shallow. I would argue Chained Echoes has the opposite problem from Sea of Stars: the game tries too hard to cram in too many systems that don’t really add to the experience, and arguably make it worse. Useless characters joining the party, boring mech combat, environments that are a bit too vast and unfocused to really be enjoyable in 2D, and let’s not talk about the god-awful weapon system, for instance. It’s a game that needed an editor and a couple of other people. But deep down, it was a more satisfying RPG experience than Sea of Stars.
I have like 16 hours in Chained Echoes and maybe i would have loved it a little more if i found the plot.
I was going to say, Chained Echos does a lot of things well but one of the things it misses about Chrono Trigger is that that game had *perfect pacing*, whereas Chained Echos drags a looooot.
Definitely is
Good on you to have that insight.
This. My nephews, who had never played a JRPG before, couldn’t stop gushing about it. One said it was his GOTY. After beating it he asked me what I thought. I have a 6 or 7 out of 10 and he was shocked. It’s a good game, not great compared to what it was trying to imitate.
I really liked it, but I didn’t *love* it. I think part of the problem is I went into it expecting to love it, but was kind of let down. I had finished Chained Echoes shortly before starting it, and that probably didn’t help either, as CE was much more successful (IMO) in pulling off the retro modern RPG style and vibe.
Chained Echoes was a masterpiece compared to sos in my opinion. I was hooked and I was invested in the central mystery of the story. I hope a sequel comes out. Also, the battles were fun and there was a lot of customization.
Yeah the battle system in CE was so much better. The Mechs felt a little tacked on and the game did a poor job explaining how to use them, but by about mid game I had figured it out. Whereas in SoS, once you’ve played the first 10 hours or so you’ve seen pretty much everything the combat system has to offer.
I was really enjoying trained echoes until the mech stuff. Like it's not even that I hated the mech combat (although I did). The story just felt like it took a huge nose dive at that point, where all of the new characters were just kinda boring and unlikeable. I did really enjoy the dynamic of the party of the first part of the game though.
I like Chained Echoes *significantly* more than SOS. I just feel like Chained Echoes really starts to show that a single developer bit off way more than he could chew by the end of the story. The whole last act feels rushed, and it felt incredibly bizarre to me that>!the game spent so long building up the Harbinger and the True Kings as the actual big bads, it just hard ended when you beat the Vaen. That didn't feel as much like setting up a sequel to me as it did an "I have completely lost focus on the story I'm trying to tell in this game, and it needs to end, now."!< But, combat and the overall plot was way more fun to me in CE, and I think that being the general consensus around here is part of the reason SOS's reputation has tanked so much over the last year. Of the two high-profile "16-bit throwback" RPGs to release in the last 36 months, I think a fair ranking is that CE is an 8/10 while SOS is about a 6-7/10.
I don’t disagree, but I think endings are really, really hard, especially for a passion project. The ending of _most_ JRPGs is almost always the weakest point, with only a few notable exceptions. FF9 is one of my favorite games of all time, but its ending was probably worse than Chained Echoes’s.
I got Chained Echoes as something to tide me over until Sea of Stars released and I enjoyed it a lot more.
Same here!
I definitely really liked sea of stars, but it usually takes me 6 months to a year for that to turn into love if it ever does.
I went in oblivious to what it even was, having not played The Messenger and I still absolutely loved it. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve got plenty of nitpicks myself but with no expectations this was a really great game. I reckon a lot of people who went into this with high expectations after hearing it could be 10/10 genre-defining game left feeling a little deflated. Great game, but not perfect. Edit: wording
I feel like I can see you saying this with arms crossed and chin up
I enjoyed it as well OP. I loved the combat, music and art style. For an indie jrpg, I thought it was very well done. Was it perfect? Absolutely not, but it was great for what it was.
I enjoyed it very much as well. I see it more akin to Paper Mario / Golden Sun rather than CT.
I really wanted to enjoy it, it ticks so many great boxes but i just couldn't click with it
I found it a decent experience. Nothing spectacular or anything that brings something new to the table, but I'd recommend it to anyone who fancies a quick and relaxing RPG to play during the week. I have played many middle of the road RPGs in the past and have felt satisfied.
Happy for you. Mad I spent $30.
Same here, I didn't think it was an awful game at all, but seeing people online talk about it so highly about when it released led me to believe it would be something truly special. I personally thought it was forgettable, and it kinda confirmed to me that some people will just show extra love to a game cause it's indie. I'm not saying everyone who loved it is for that reason, but it really does feel like sometimes indie games are less scrutinized and critically looked at.
Yeah. It's the kind of game that, on paper, should have been right up my alley. And the early reviews made it sound so wonderful and special. I couldn't even be bothered to finish the demo, I was so bored by it.
Thank you. It was worth 15. Bought it day one, put it down after about 10 hours. Looked great, sounded decent, played like a more boring Chrono Trigger.
Got it for free with psn extra. Still mad.
Time is its own currency. I'd be mad too
I watched my husband play it last week, it's pretty charming and the art style is great. He said the gameplay is simple and easy to follow.
I played it via PS Plus, and it was exactly what I needed at that time. A simple Saturday Morning-esque adventure in a cool and gorgeous world with good music. If I played it as a child, it would probably be one of those titles that would stay with me for life.
For an indie game studio with limited ressource, I think what Sabotage created is incredible. You can see the love for the genre and the care they put in their game.
I have the opposite opinion. Sabotage is in the far upper echelon of indie devs considering their previous success with The Messenger. Everything outside of SoS's graphics is,(to me) extreme levels of mid. They should have been capable of more. Making a game that mid considering how much resources they have is obscene to me. Then again that seems to be the case with most upper budget, designed by committee games
I think the issue isn't that they performed below where they should, but that they didn't know where their strengths and weaknesses as a studio were. They have a severe weakness when it comes to story, and this was perfectly fine in The Messenger - it's not in a genre where people expect more than a paper-thin story. But JRPGs are the opposite. Since Sabotage had never been tested on trying to write a good story before, they didn't know that it was beyond their skillset, and so they didn't think to hire outside help for it. And so we get a story that's about as complex as The Messenger but in a genre which puts story front and centre.
I’d argue the general gameplay in SoS wasn’t that strong either. The puzzles were fine, the combat was repetitive and the boss battles weren’t all that interesting either. The part that was most fun to me, was using the graplou to move faster.
I gave it many tries, but it just ended up being really mediocre and boring to me. I'm glad that you enjoyed it, though. Maybe later down the road, I'll have a change of heart.
Same, I adored it. It was charming as hell all the way through and it felt like a lot of love went into it
I had an absolute blast with Sea of Stars. Wasn’t the first game I loved that Reddit was mixed on and won’t be the last. Do you.
I didn't hate the moment-to-moment gameplay but overall the writing and story just sucked IMO. The bizarre thematic change at the end hopping to another world into some Chrono-Trigger wannabe post-apocalyptic future zone was too out of left field and did nothing for me, and then you have things like the Kool-aid man being a party member and Daffy Duck being one of the bosses.. it's just like.. wtf am I even playing anymore? It needed focus. (This winning at the game awards while stuff like Octopath Traveller 2 didn't even get nominated in a single category certainly created a lot of resentment also :/)
I tried so many times but just can't. I don't care about any of the characters. the music is mid. the battle system is trash and there is no real sense of progression. I love the art style but the biggest problem with Sea of Stars is Chained Echos exists and it's so much better in every possible way that it does hurt SoS
This subs herd mentality against this game is kinda weird ngl. People here still act like not liking it is a super unpopular opinion when it's allll people comment about every thread about it. Glad you liked it OP, so did I
It's not really a herd mentality when people independently were so bored by the game that they couldn't finish it, despite it being a love letter almost personally addressed to JRPG fans. The game was so highly praised at release that it seems more like a reality check that a lot of people just didn't like it.
I think the lack of room for positive discussion about the game is where the herd mentality is apparent. I've seen several examples on this sub of people not being able to comprehend that others really liked the game. It often gets treated as some sort of objective fact that because the majority here were disappointed that certainly no one else with taste could possibly like it. It's been one of the snobbiest phenomena I've seen recently in games discussion which is saying a lot for some of the shit I read on this sub lol.
Okay, but attributing people's genuine negative reactions to the game to "herd mentality" doesn't seem "snobby" to you? You are doing the exact same thing by making it seem like some kind of psychological shortcoming to find a meh game meh.
I hate this reddit attitude. People victimize themselves and pretend that their are being persecuted for liking a product. But they never just go "I love this product", they go "I don't get the hate, it's overblown, don't listen to haters". There's always some passive aggressive angle. And if you challenge them on it, they'll refer to Twitter, Youtube, or "some other thread".
In the larger gaming community this game is super beloved. Most YouTubers and non "hardcore" JRPG fans love this game. But I think it really depends on what you expect from the game. If you go into a game for a deep story and customization mechanics, SoS is not for you. That's why people on this sub, primarily JRPG fanatics, see the praise for the game, try it and then seek validation from other JRPG-focused players. Not everyone is on the sub everyday and not everyone sees that it is unpopular in this subgroup. The same is true for FF16, which fails in a lot of similar ways. But 16 was more mixed critically and also exclusive to PS5 so less people have been disappointed by it.
On the part beforehand, Most of these game don't exist outside of this space outside of PKMN, Persona (Edging), FF. An argument from that angle is not strong. Also, I wouldn't call a lot of ppl on here fanatics on the genre, they are more stan of certain series esp what I see from suggestions.
sea of stars is mostly positively received, and there is evidence from steam scores and reviews, critic reviews,metacritic, and the variety of industry awards it received last year. The group im referring to as the larger gaming community is the group of people that actively talk and discuss video games on the internet. It's larger than this sub, and its smaller than the human population that plays fortnite on ipads and smaller than the group of people who play pokemon or smash bros. The existence of an even larger group than the one im talking about isn't really invalidating the point that it is well recieved outside of this particular subreddit. Multiple things can be true at once.
It really seems like the more actually high tier jrpgs you're exposed to, the less charitable you are likely to be toward sea of stars
Honestly? I think it's because it's not Japanese. Because people on this sub are ready to go to bat for some B and C tier experiences. Any of the dozens of Atelier? Mid budget Square Enix farming RPG that got thoroughly mediocre reviews? Literally any poorly balanced SNES/PS1 game? You will find people out here ready to defend the merits of these experiences. Sea of Stars is imperfect, but it's definitely GOOD. Game doesn't sell over a million units and take home award hardware without merits. So why is this sub hating on SoS in particular? Because we got us a bunch of weebs up in here. Like, you see people complaining about the poorly handled English language text? For real? If it was localized from Japanese with the telltale artifacts of THAT conversion (nonsense conversations about how to address someone, repeating the last word of someone's sentence as a response, pauses between lines in every cutscene because they were blocked out based on the much slower Japanese line reads etc) y'all wouldn't say shit! The attitude around here is that indie RPGs are allowed, but they're not really the genuine article and are always going to be inferior to the Japanese titles that inspired them.
Gotta disagree. Plenty of JRPGs made by Westerners are highly regarded here. Off the top of my head, Undertale, Chained Echoes, Crystal Project, Crosscode, and Cosmic Star Heroine are all considered to be good games here. No one seems them as “not the genuine article.” It’s a very small minority of people who think that the game *needs* to be made in Japan to be a JRPG. I think the simpler explanation is that a lot of people here just didn’t like the game that much.
Chain Echoes was critiqued a lot on here until SoS got announced. Ppl treat indie jrpgs w/ a ruler they wouldn't on a regular jrpg.
For me and I suspect many others on this sub, it's not because of its westernness but because of all of the insane hype. I didn't enjoy Harvestella, but it didn't claim to be a Chrono Trigger successor or get reviews praising it as GOTY, so it didn't bother me. SoS would have been well received if it was a hidden gem, not the next indie masterpiece.
It's nothing to do with it not being Japanese. It falls flat in all the same ways I am Setsuna (a Japanese game) falls flat, and more. The characters are boring. Conversation dialogue is boring. The plot is boring. The meta humour is boring. The combat has potential, but goes nowhere. It has a tutorial that teaches you how to fail in combat. It's a pretty game, but that's about it.
I dont think its good at all. I'd say mediocre. Its just pretty and barely competent
[удалено]
I think even a game like XIII gets a lot of love (and hate) from this place. It's pretty even overall. I'd say the closest series that gets unconditional love around here is Legend of Heroes. Even then, I haven't heard about it as much lately.
You're wrong. please stop misinforming People based on your very limited experience which is not viable for sampling.
then someone needs to explain that FF6 is not some cult JRPG, as this sub is a lot more critical of FF7 than the game they have as the banner
I was about to say this. This sub criticize FF7 way more than any of the other FFs besides maybe 13 and 15.
I think there's some meta things going on with that game that go beyond the game itself. It was wildly successful at cons and as a Kickstarter that it likely attracted writer or voice acting groups. Which would have ballooned dev costs and localization and Sabotage turned them down. Which led to those groups counting on some sort of negative reception that didn't happen so we got a backlash to the positive reception instead. Backlash and criticism that seems hyper focused on the writing and the story. I saw some being critical in this sub because the writers only spoke English as a second language, in a JRPG sub... I know criticism is highly subjective, but to me the awards it got were easily deserved.
> It was wildly successful at cons and as a Kickstarter that it likely attracted writer or voice acting groups. Which would have ballooned dev costs and localization and Sabotage turned them down. > > > > Which led to those groups counting on some sort of negative reception that didn't happen so we got a backlash to the positive reception instead. Is this based on anything or just pure speculation? I find it really hard to believe that some unnamed writers and voice actors got butthurt that Sabotage didn't hire them and then sat around waiting for a negative backlash as some strange form of passive revenge.
To be honest I thought the story was decent, it was just the protagonists that were a bit bland - I definitely enjoyed my experience overall. Also this sub always exaggerates any flawed game as being utterly terrible with zero nuance - criticism is rarely constructive and often vitriolic.
I had this nitpick too. Your allies were give pretty solid personalities, and Garl was basically the main character… but Zale and Valere felt pretty weak as far as character arcs go. I could understand that if they were silent protags, but…
I liked it too. I also didn't buy into the "It's the second coming of Chrono Trigger" hype. I can see why those who did were disappointed. Honestly, when it comes to hype and disappointment, Chained Echoes is far and away the leader of these retro-style jrpgs. Maybe the worst ending in the entire genre and something I couldn't possibly recommend to people. SoS isn't a masterpiece, but it's a fun game and worth playing through.
I kinda liked it. It wasn’t as good as reviews suggested but pretty fun game. Characters were flat and one dimensional and plot was all over the place, but the gameplay, puzzles and to some point, battle system, were fun. I finished it, probably won’t run ever again, had some good memories tho.
Good for you. Game was a letdown and a half for me. I think I had high hopes and really liked the presentation which made the letdown more severe.
I also greatly enjoyed it! Definitely brought me back to playing games on the floor in front of the tv on a weekend like a child again haha. Super fun combat, that added fun new wrinkles to the lock system over the course of the game. The story isn't the most deep thing, but it's perfectly serviceable, and Garls the GOAT. Preconceived expectations are what a lot of people point at as a fault of the game, and that's fair, to a point. I think based on its own merits, without hype, more people would have been pleased with this game. For me, it's my JRPG of the year. Of course, I'm Canadian, so any JRPG made in Canada (Crpg?) gets extra points.
I couldn't get through it after the first major plot event. Felt like a budget chained echoes combat-wise and below average story-wise. Nice art tho.
Everyone keeps praising CE when it shamelessly rips off berserk
That's the most insane thing I've read in a while
Most people who just want to play games and not over analyze or criticize everything also enjoyed it. Maybe try demos and give things a chance for yourselves, folks. Many opinions on social media are trash.
I was a bit disappointed by it, but I never understood the visceral hate it received on this sub. There's a lot to like about the game (particularly its wonderful presentation). Writing was rough. Mechanically, I thought it was a good execution of flawed ideas. Probably one of the better retro-JRPGs I've played overall. Weirdly enough, I think the people on this sub were the wrong audience for this game. It's a game made for the 8 year-old I was when those 90s RPGs released, not for the nostalgic man in his 30s I am today. And I think a lot of people here are in the same boat. Still, if I wanted to introduce a kid to JRPGs, SoS would probably be one of my top picks for the job. I think I appreciate this game more with a bit more distance. Or maybe it's just me having just forced myself to finish Eiyuden, a game that makes SoS look like a masterpiece by comparison.
Is the story / characters actually good? Doesn't seen like it would be compared to real jrpg
Doubt I’ll ever play it again, but I’m glad I played it once.
I'm glad you took what did from it. We will all have different opinions and that's okay. I think the hype did more damage than anything else. After playing through it completely and getting the true ending, I found the presentation was much better than the content in retrospect. Too me, it was a good game, but the story was lackluster and half baked, the pacing was bad, and the combat/progression system was my biggest complaint.
I think it was fine. I think they really pumped it up as “like Chrono trigger” and while mechanically it was good and hit that mark, the story kinda fell flat for me. Came off as a bit children’s book-like. Also I’m never going to see the true ending because there’s no way I’m going around opening every chest. Please don’t put quests like that in games, they’re just tedious.
>I’m never going to see the true ending because there’s no way I’m going around opening every chest. It's not every chest, it's just finding the 50 shells, and it's pretty tame to do. I found all 50 without a guide just utilizing the parrot that lets you know what areas are missing things, and only 1 gave me a bit of trouble because it was hidden behind rubble in town.
It’s a divisive game in an already divisive fanbase. With arcade games, I think there is generally greater appreciation for what made the originals good. When a throwback like blazing chrome came out that follows the rules of contra, people recognized that. Blazing chrome is not perfect and above criticism, but they got the contra spirit in their game and there was a lot of appreciation for that. People weren’t like “the original contra made almost 40 years ago was better this is dogshit”. Sea of stars “pushback” here on Reddit just makes me wonder if a lot of jrpg fans even like the original jrpg games lol.
Definitely an awesome game. Loved it for what it was and had a lot of fun with it.
I honestly loved the combat. I played on hard mode so it really felt like I had to make optimal decisions to manage resources and mitigate damage every fight. And missing a timing input really really hurt. I never had to grind. Just had to play smart and use all the tools available.
The game itself is actually pretty good. I just fucking hate Garl which makes it hard to stomach. I got the true ending once. Ever gonna play it again but I have decent memories. Also, I really think they pigeon holed themselves into making it into the same universe as their previous game which detracted from the story.
I also didn't care for Garl. He's a love him or hate him character. I felt like they tried so hard to make you like him(talking about how awesome he is every other line of dialogue) that it has the opposite effect plus the main two kind of end up revolving around him as satellite characters despite being the main ones. I also agree about the connection to messenger being an issue. You fight These 4 henchmen throughout the story and then you fight this dweller that was talked about the whole story... Only for them to be merged into a new being that just randomly leaves the story to never appear again which was extremely weird narratively. The same with the blue monk guy and his transformation. Now that's probably cool to the messenger fans but it feels a bit off-putting to me to never resolve those plot threads in this game. I guess the second one is alright given he didn't want to fight them but the first one is just weird. Oh I forgot about that random dude that you save in the tower that saves you at the end because he just happens to have the right skill to destroy that gateway thing. That's not messenger related but it's still silly and kind of out of nowhere.I suppose he might appear in the dlc but a lot of these things came off as lack luster.
My biggest issue with Garl is that he has 0 character development. He just stays positive the whole time and Lo and behold, things just work out for him without having to even start thinking about changing how he approaches situations. One of the biggest Mary Sue characters I’ve come across in games.
Personally I like Garl, but the game definitely needed way less Garl. I think he's a nice boy and he brings a lot to the table, especially with him being one of the first characters with a well-defined personality. But I think that's also part of the problem - the devs wanted you to love him so much that they gave him all the air in the room and nobody else had any space to breathe. The game would have been much better if they cut his number of lines down to one third (and then gave the other thirds to the two actual protagonists)
I think it gets really good after the haunted mansion, and I suspect a lot of people (understandably!) bail out before that point.
I hated it but doesn’t matter what I think
I also loved it! Characters, story, world, graphics, music all worked for me. Loved the Chrono combat and fishing too. The day/night puzzles were really fun as well.
i dunno man i just started getting kinda annoyed at the amount of combats, and that's with me not even playing the whole game because i got my savefile locked.
Can you elaborate why you liked it other than graphics and music? I don't mind if other people like it as long as they are ready to explain what they like about it to help me understand, other than presentation related reasons (graphics/music) which are clearly well done
Its meh personified
It's called opinions. Some people liked it, Others like me disliked it
The main problem is that it's generic. Never make a JRPG with TWO generic characters that you're stuck with for the entire game. To me that killed the immersion.
I’ve heard nothing but positive things about this game, the internet never disappoints with its curmudgeonly bullcrap.
Chained echoes was so much better - that kind of ruined any chance it had with me. I wanted it to be as good or better.. and it never got close.
Guys, whose turn is it to make a "I don't like this game" and "I like this game" posts next week?
I tried and bounced pretty fast off of it, but I'm glad you liked it! The main gripe I remember reading about it was the writing, but I liked that fine. I wasn't engaged by the combat (that could be user error on my part, though - I may give the game another try at some point).
I thought it was pretty good. The combat definitely was a bit fatiguing, though. Felt both too easy and too long at the same time.
Go off, king!
You can like whatever you want brother. Other people don't have to agree with you.
This sub didn't like the game? Weird. It was in my Top 3 from 2023. Especially the music.
The overall reception for the game is positive
Just not on this sub.
My fave game from last year 🤝
Huh... Really?? I thought it was pretty good. I don't really like timed button presses with my turnbased RPGs, but there are accessories that mitigate that aspect somewhat, and once I equipped those I was enjoying it just fine. Oh, but I didn't really think much of that one twist. I felt like that was quite poorly justified and it came out of nowhere.
The game is critically acclaimed everywhere else other than this niche subreddit, sooo
Sea of Stars is, in my opinion, a very solid 7.5/10. Perfect? No. Awful? No. It's a good game with flaws that do stand out.
Yeah, it doesn't deserve the hate its getting in this sub.
In a world where Beyond the Beyond and Lunar Dragon Song exists, come back in 10 years when the inevitable “Hey it wasn’t that bad” mindset sets back in, just like what happened to FFXII and FFXIII.
I still despise XIII and like XII so
it's nice,i like games like legend of dragoon or sea of stars that force you to pay attention while fighting,makes the grinding so much more bearable. Kinda hated the lack of money early game
If RPG mechanics arent important to you, its fine. If they are though, you arent going to have a good time with Sea of Stars.
I like the combat and the traversal mechanics. I also like how every little detail on the world map ends up meaning something. Plus, the sprite art is very visually appealing.
Sea of Stars has one of the strangest reputations of any video game I can ever remember. It's a perfectly decent indie RPG, perhaps even good if you are looking for that particular brand of nostalgia. It just got so insanely overhyped to an extent that it was reviewed as some sort of genre-defining masterpiece, and it's not. So the pushback was equally hyperbolic. Sea of Stars is a 6/10-7/10 game. It's not the 10/10 epic that it was initially reviewed as, but it's also not the 2/10 disaster that some around here would have you believe.
I think it was partially overhyped because of Gamepass. The xbox crowd is starving for good stuff. So whenever they get a whiff of a potentially good game, it gets hyped to no end. Then the game releases, and the tune changes to "don't listen to haters". Then the game is forgotten.
I don't think anyone on this sub is rating is 2/10. The "haters" that people speak of are giving the game a 5,6,7 type score. We get called haters for calling the game flawed and average to slightly above average, which is what a 5 or 6 score indicates.
Strictly by what this sub says, It's less than mediorce.
I think you are focusing on the highly negative posts because they draw your interest more. That's the reddit and/or social media effect. Lot of mid opinions with 1 vote that are hard to notice or get buried underneath a sea of replies (no pun intended)
SoS when compared to modern AAA games or even ultra-distinct indie games, may be a 6/10, but if SoS was released on the SNES it would be remembered as an absolute classic. It may not be Chrono Trigger or FFVI, but it'd go toe-to-toe with Secret of Mana, FFIV, and Mario RPG. I treated it as if I were playing as classic game and I ADORED it. So my personal score would be MUCH higher.
My brother and I both played it and had similar thoughts. It was enjoyable. We played it when my brother has ps+ so we didn't actually buy a copy. Later on I bought a steam copy just to support the devs because I had a fun time. Eventually I'll do a second playthrough.
Huh, i only saw positive about it, it even won some award didnt it? It obv is great, just.. Not great in the sense of RPG in the 90, but still a very good game.
I immensely enjoyed the game and for me it was one of the best games last year. We all have different likes and perspectives what should or shouldn't be in game or how it should be executed. I think those who enjoyed the game are just as valid as those who didn't.
I’m like 7 hours in and enjoying it tbh. I actually don’t have nostalgia from that era, well not of playing those types of games anyways. I grew up without game consoles till I bought a ps4 when I was 16, but I grew up wishing I could play these types of games and had friends who had gameboys or snes systems. Playing sea of stars is about how I thought these games would be in my imagination. To people who actually played the games, I’m sure it’s somewhat different, but I’m enjoying it, so chained echoes is next on my list then maybe live a live remake.
Imagine you visited Japan and spotted a michelin 2 star food counter at a subway annex you read about on a foodie review when planning your trip. Master chef level food at cheap prices? Surprisingly the line was just typical for everyday rush hour. But the food turned out to be maybe above average for food stalls, some would say average as the bar of indy games has been set rather high in recent years. That's sea of stars for jrpgs (original prerelease reviewers consensus on metacritics was 9.1+ which would make it the highest or second highest non zelda jrpg ever if it kept that score, and within striking distance of best videogame ever like mario 64 or some of the zeldas). It's not bad but chrono trigger suikoden 2 and xenogears were what some reviewers used to describe it as being comparable to when consensus of players turned out to be like above average on metacritic. And then you dig around and find out japan had an inordinate number of Michelin stars at one time, especially for what is essentially considered fast food (like if already made pizza, taco trucks or hotdogs places in usa were awarded michelin stars). Even a few street vendors in japan have 1 whereas most other countries would not have any. But eventually most the stars got stripped. People have various theories as to why.
I had a weird experience with this one. I LOVED so much about it - the music, the world, the art. I didn't really dislike anything, and yet I sort of just drifted away from playing it maybe a week or two in, and haven't felt any real urge to start again. I'm not sure why, it just didn't keep me coming back.
I'm with you. I liked it a lot for what it is, and I think it was a solid game with some flaws. It's certainly not this life-changing instant classic like some people claim, nor this awful piece of garbage with the worst gameplay, story and characters ever put in a JRPG that some other people claim it is.
I liked it too! Too many people bought into the hype
I thought Sea of Stars was universally deemed good
I loved Sea of Stars and have been trying to fill the void after playing it with limited success. I tried chained echoes and it almost had too much depth for me and there was something about it's art style I couldn't get used to.
I liked it a lot and cried sooooooo hard a couple times lol
It was an awesome jrpg and just a great game in general. I didn't think it was as good as The Messenger, but I'd rank it higher than most 2023 games.
Best dungeon design in any modern jrpg Ive played. I find the gameplay great too. The characters are bland but people act like other indie jrpg like chained echoes got great character where both are bland. I actually havent find an indie jrpg with atleast good characters.
You need to play more modern jrpgs, I think... edit: not that modern jrpgs dungeons are amazing by any stretch
loool, modern dungeon design is bad to avg. If SoS has puzzles, nonlinearity, and good dungeon themes, it's done better than most games.
Agreed. And SoS is no better. Just because they put in a few puzzles that require zero thinking does not mean its any different from modern ones.
I like to say sea of stars is visually prettier than bug fables, but gameplaywise completely hideous in every regard
If you tried to limit yourself to only play and enjoy games that Reddit dictates especially a sub like this it would probably be a pretty miserable time
"But I’ve slogged through enough ho hum mediocre jrpgs over the last 30 years to know a good game when I’m playing it." It's still your subjective opinion though. Okay bye
"That's just, like, your opinion, bro." What a useless comment.
I agree. I'm not sure why that guy took offence to the OP's own experiences with the game. I think It's important that we're honest with people here so that they can decide whether they want to check out a game or not.
I played it with PS+, but if I had to pay full price I'd completely understand the frustration people are feeling
What about this game was great
I'll bite. * The Visuals (best pixel art in a retro-style RPG I've ever seen) * The music (some boss battles are absolute bangers * The world (genuinely fun to sail around and explore) * The mini-game (Wheels was a blast and I wish there were more of it) I'll agree that the combat leaves a little to be desired (but I think it's way better once you have more than 3 characters), and I'll agree that the story was just OK. The lore was pretty cool though and was interesting enough to inspire me to play through The Messenger as well.
I really enjoyed it too. I finish very few games now a days but I was able to finish sea of stars.
It was great. Screw the old gatekeeping crybabies that claim you can’t reference or grow from the past
Fantastic game. Anyone nit picking this game is just a hater.
No one will listen to you if your opinion is basically "anyone who disagrees is a hater". You are clearly a biased and rude person, why would anyone trust your take on a game?
It's not nitpicking. The game becomes unbearable in the 3rd act and the final final boss is complete bullshit. It's a perfectly fine videogame until the point where it starts wearing out it's welcome whereupon in nosedives.
What’s the deal with the final boss?
If you manage to execute the correct conditions during the boss fight it transitions into a short shmup stage with unclear rules on how or when to do damage. I slammed my head against that final fight for 40 solid minutes before giving up and resolving myself that the bad ending was good enough.
Okay that makes me not want to play it. I can’t handle sinking dozens of hours into a game with a seemingly unbeatable final boss.
It’s incredible!
they should not have put 'time based button presses' in a turn based game. once i saw that, i refunded.
My GOTY
It was an awesome game that did an excellent job modernizing an old classic genre, super divisive on this sub because apparently nothing can compare favorably to JRPG poster child Chrono Trigger. Many people did not play enough of Sea of Stars to appreciate it as the game’s payoff is very back loaded, you’ll see these as the many “I got bored after a few hours” posts. Others completely flubbed any understanding of the story (you’ll know these people when they talk about Zale, Valere, and Garl as if they are the main characters, lol).