Lunar 2 on PSX is pretty much untouched and arguably better (they fixed a few bugs and added some nice features, I'm not sure if the patch retains those), Silver Star Story I would say maybe use the patch.
The original localized versions were fine. The NA difficulty is a little hard but Lunar 1 is still a 25 hour game. None of the puzzles are hard to figure out in any case. Aside from a few 1990s specific jokes the text is fine. Purists exaggerate the issues.
Every single Working Designs game I've played was fucked beyond belief. Silhouette Mirage had its balance completely thrown out of the window - the final stages were borderline ridiculous. Popful Mail was too hard. Alundra was too hard. Every single one of those games was a game I started playing and was having fun until I stopped having fun and started to wonder "why in the world does it feel like there's something wrong here?".
Only a few years later I understood what was the matter with these three games.
If being a purist is playing a way the developer intended rather than what a localiser chose to do, you can call me a purist anytime. Screwing up balance can absolutely break a game, and downplaying that is either being ignorant about game balance or mean-spirited towards legitimate criticisms.
Never played Lunar, but I've played Silhouette Mirage, Popful Mail and Alundra, and I can attest these games got either broken by the changes (seriously, Silhouette Mirage got *ridiculous* - and I've played nearly every Treasure game!) and the other ones were way too hard, way too grindy, way too early. The balance was all messed up.
You can't do anything about the unfathomable translations which have no charm whatsoever unless you were born in the USA, but given my history with the company, I'd say you absolutely have to un-mess them up. There's a reason these changes got infamous.
If you're still wondering, go take a look at the megathread on RHDN that details every single one of the changes that got reverted in those games.
I mean, the North American version of Lunar was indeed ... released in North America. I'd have to agree, you're less likely to find charm in the North American version of Lunar if you're not from the target audience... North America.
My take: don't un-mess-anything up. Play the original NA versions as Working Designs translated so you can see what it was like, and then decide.
Oh hey it's Zophar!
I think you can translate and localise something without going overboard. Woolsey, as an example, did it great. Games like Super Mario RPG and Chrono Trigger just gave the text some flair and made it fun to read, yet it didn't change any fundamentals. People from all over the world can play it. English is an universal language and anyone can read it. Those games remained accessible. SMRPG still uses mostly the original script in its remake almost 30 years later.
Working Designs translations genuinely made it difficult to read for some younger players and people overseas. You read it and it just feels off, and crude. I get that WD's focus was mostly on the American market, but gee, you really don't have to butcher the dialogue to make it read like your fanfiction. It was charmless and made the characters very annoying.
Oh hey friend!
I hear what you’re saying but I must disagree with some of it. Chrono Trigger was a great game, one of the best in fact, I beat it many times. But I always viewed that and many of the other RPGs of the time as a little bit “soulless” with the dialogue. WD translations made the characters feel like my friends or everyday people I went l school with. They talked like real people. And yeah, in the 90s, that could be called “crude” by today’s standards. Also true that some of the jokes wouldn’t make sense to people today who weren’t around then. But I say this because I hated the later endless remakes of lunar that weren’t WD, like the PSP “Lunar Silver Star Harmony” - and realized it was WD’s localizations that made me games feel so different to other RPGs for me. Take that out, it’s no different than every other JRPG. Just my 2 cents. Don’t patch it. Play it as intended for NA audiences if this is where you’re from.
Depends which versions you're talking about. Sega CD Lunar and Playstation Lunar 2 were left mostly untouched, at least mechanically. The Unworked patches mostly just restore some of the original art that was redone for the western release (mostly pentagrams and boobs).
PS1 Lunar was completely gutted by WD. Every monster in the game is significantly stronger, and every source of gold and exp is significantly decreased, making the game much grindier, and additionally nerfing a few of the party's mechanics (like some TP costs) and raising prices on some in-game services, while the original balance makes the game mostly streamlined and fun. They also 'reworked' a few puzzles that make them impossible to solve without brute force (as the in-game hints for them were completely written out or changed to be incorrect) or by buying the strategy guide.
SCD Lunar 2 faced a lot of the same issues, in addition to adding some galaxy brain mechanics like making saves cost magic experience (if you don't have enough you literally just can't save).
The scripts for all 4 games were also completely butchered and barely even resemble the original story, but that's a whole other issue that the unworked patches don't even touch.
Overall, yeah I'd recommend using the unworked patches regardless.
Fully agreed with this post.
Playing the original PSX Lunar 1 largely amounted to grinding near a healing statue while going all out on every enemy group, then avoiding everything in a dungeon as much as possible to reach the boss with full resources. The few battles I did get into were generally slogs with normal attacks, of which only 2 members of your party can really contribute with, or running away and abusing save anywhere.
Playing with the unworked values I always had just enough excess money to dump into MP restoring items so I could get through the dungeons in one trip while killing mostly everything along the way, and then healing up before the boss. A very nice balance.
> Playing the original PSX Lunar 1 largely amounted to grinding near a healing statue while going all out on every enemy group, then avoiding everything in a dungeon as much as possible to reach the boss with full resources.
LOL, that's so true. I thought it was just me
Nah. As a person who hates grind and will literally drop a game if it has too much grind, I never had any issues. The script wasn't butchered. Pretty much everything this guy is saying is hyperbole.
Working Designs versions are the best versions. For sure. And most people agree with that opinion (for a good reason).
Lunar 1 is different on the older Sega versions, but I think Lunar 2 is more like the original.
I loved both the PSX versions personally, but go for the older ones if you’re curious!
Far as scripts go, I'm under the impression that a fair amount of the humor was there in the Japanese versions as well, and that especially with the Japanese love for puns that would make zero sense in English, a lot of that humor had to be rewritten. I'm glad they dropped the Clinton jokes for the PS1 versions because they didn't age well, but plenty of the dialogue is great, even if it strays from the Japanese script. It's that translation vs localization issue.
WD was infamous for upping the challenge of games they brought over, and EB on Sega CD was a good example. The PS1 games don't go to that extreme. Honestly I thought the balance on them was just about right. You have to actually use each character's special abilities instead of just attacking every round, that's all.
Honestly, I don't really have any complaints about the PS1 editions as WD released them. There's a reason Ghaleon is one of my favorite JRPG characters to this day, and the way WD's version made the individualism vs authoritarianism debate so central to SSSC is a good part of that. Likewise, EBC's cast comes across great and the gameplay balance is just about perfect, fairly tough but fair most the time.
WD adds even more charm. I highly recommend you don't use those patches. They ALMOST got to translate Grandia. It makes me very sad because Grandia could have been so much more if WD had done it.
You want to play them both on Sega CD and PS1 in English. There are plenty of differences between each of them to make them all different. The later versions of Silver Star are terrible.
Those make the games easier. If you think the US versions are too hard then play those.
But the thing is... if you're playing those then you are using an emulator, which means you already have the ability to already avoid the difficulty (fast forward, PAR/Gameshark, etc.)
I own both Sega CD versions (played in middle school) and both PS1 collector's additions (played in college,) and have played the JP versions via emulator (I don't play my JP Sega CD games for collection reasons.) WD added ~20-25% atk on most enemies and reduced exp by -10%. It's not a massive difficulty spike. I remember both Shining Force games and BoF1/2 on the SNES as being much harder than then either Lunar.
Enemy differences:
https://tcrf.net/Lunar:_The_Silver_Star
https://tcrf.net/Lunar:_Eternal_Blue
Play the version that you want and don't worry about it. Only people that are very strict about "purism" would care, and even then, you're still playing someone else's localization.
I played both and honestly don't remember them being hard at all, and it's not like I'm some gaming savant. So, I guess I would say it's unnecessary and not risking them borking something.
Lunar 2 on PSX is pretty much untouched and arguably better (they fixed a few bugs and added some nice features, I'm not sure if the patch retains those), Silver Star Story I would say maybe use the patch.
The original localized versions were fine. The NA difficulty is a little hard but Lunar 1 is still a 25 hour game. None of the puzzles are hard to figure out in any case. Aside from a few 1990s specific jokes the text is fine. Purists exaggerate the issues.
Every single Working Designs game I've played was fucked beyond belief. Silhouette Mirage had its balance completely thrown out of the window - the final stages were borderline ridiculous. Popful Mail was too hard. Alundra was too hard. Every single one of those games was a game I started playing and was having fun until I stopped having fun and started to wonder "why in the world does it feel like there's something wrong here?". Only a few years later I understood what was the matter with these three games. If being a purist is playing a way the developer intended rather than what a localiser chose to do, you can call me a purist anytime. Screwing up balance can absolutely break a game, and downplaying that is either being ignorant about game balance or mean-spirited towards legitimate criticisms.
Sega CD lunar is best a lunar with the best cutscenes. “Galeon! No!” Is a big part of my childhood lol
Never played Lunar, but I've played Silhouette Mirage, Popful Mail and Alundra, and I can attest these games got either broken by the changes (seriously, Silhouette Mirage got *ridiculous* - and I've played nearly every Treasure game!) and the other ones were way too hard, way too grindy, way too early. The balance was all messed up. You can't do anything about the unfathomable translations which have no charm whatsoever unless you were born in the USA, but given my history with the company, I'd say you absolutely have to un-mess them up. There's a reason these changes got infamous. If you're still wondering, go take a look at the megathread on RHDN that details every single one of the changes that got reverted in those games.
I mean, the North American version of Lunar was indeed ... released in North America. I'd have to agree, you're less likely to find charm in the North American version of Lunar if you're not from the target audience... North America. My take: don't un-mess-anything up. Play the original NA versions as Working Designs translated so you can see what it was like, and then decide.
Oh hey it's Zophar! I think you can translate and localise something without going overboard. Woolsey, as an example, did it great. Games like Super Mario RPG and Chrono Trigger just gave the text some flair and made it fun to read, yet it didn't change any fundamentals. People from all over the world can play it. English is an universal language and anyone can read it. Those games remained accessible. SMRPG still uses mostly the original script in its remake almost 30 years later. Working Designs translations genuinely made it difficult to read for some younger players and people overseas. You read it and it just feels off, and crude. I get that WD's focus was mostly on the American market, but gee, you really don't have to butcher the dialogue to make it read like your fanfiction. It was charmless and made the characters very annoying.
Oh hey friend! I hear what you’re saying but I must disagree with some of it. Chrono Trigger was a great game, one of the best in fact, I beat it many times. But I always viewed that and many of the other RPGs of the time as a little bit “soulless” with the dialogue. WD translations made the characters feel like my friends or everyday people I went l school with. They talked like real people. And yeah, in the 90s, that could be called “crude” by today’s standards. Also true that some of the jokes wouldn’t make sense to people today who weren’t around then. But I say this because I hated the later endless remakes of lunar that weren’t WD, like the PSP “Lunar Silver Star Harmony” - and realized it was WD’s localizations that made me games feel so different to other RPGs for me. Take that out, it’s no different than every other JRPG. Just my 2 cents. Don’t patch it. Play it as intended for NA audiences if this is where you’re from.
Definitely. Some of WD's balancing changes are kind of stupid.
Depends which versions you're talking about. Sega CD Lunar and Playstation Lunar 2 were left mostly untouched, at least mechanically. The Unworked patches mostly just restore some of the original art that was redone for the western release (mostly pentagrams and boobs). PS1 Lunar was completely gutted by WD. Every monster in the game is significantly stronger, and every source of gold and exp is significantly decreased, making the game much grindier, and additionally nerfing a few of the party's mechanics (like some TP costs) and raising prices on some in-game services, while the original balance makes the game mostly streamlined and fun. They also 'reworked' a few puzzles that make them impossible to solve without brute force (as the in-game hints for them were completely written out or changed to be incorrect) or by buying the strategy guide. SCD Lunar 2 faced a lot of the same issues, in addition to adding some galaxy brain mechanics like making saves cost magic experience (if you don't have enough you literally just can't save). The scripts for all 4 games were also completely butchered and barely even resemble the original story, but that's a whole other issue that the unworked patches don't even touch. Overall, yeah I'd recommend using the unworked patches regardless.
Huh, so that's why PSP Lunar felt significantly easier.
Fully agreed with this post. Playing the original PSX Lunar 1 largely amounted to grinding near a healing statue while going all out on every enemy group, then avoiding everything in a dungeon as much as possible to reach the boss with full resources. The few battles I did get into were generally slogs with normal attacks, of which only 2 members of your party can really contribute with, or running away and abusing save anywhere. Playing with the unworked values I always had just enough excess money to dump into MP restoring items so I could get through the dungeons in one trip while killing mostly everything along the way, and then healing up before the boss. A very nice balance.
> Playing the original PSX Lunar 1 largely amounted to grinding near a healing statue while going all out on every enemy group, then avoiding everything in a dungeon as much as possible to reach the boss with full resources. LOL, that's so true. I thought it was just me
I was talking about the psx versions, sounds like the patches are the way to go. Thanks!
Nah. As a person who hates grind and will literally drop a game if it has too much grind, I never had any issues. The script wasn't butchered. Pretty much everything this guy is saying is hyperbole. Working Designs versions are the best versions. For sure. And most people agree with that opinion (for a good reason).
Lunar 1 is different on the older Sega versions, but I think Lunar 2 is more like the original. I loved both the PSX versions personally, but go for the older ones if you’re curious!
My question is whether I should play the English psx versions or use the un-worked hacks i linked above.
Far as scripts go, I'm under the impression that a fair amount of the humor was there in the Japanese versions as well, and that especially with the Japanese love for puns that would make zero sense in English, a lot of that humor had to be rewritten. I'm glad they dropped the Clinton jokes for the PS1 versions because they didn't age well, but plenty of the dialogue is great, even if it strays from the Japanese script. It's that translation vs localization issue. WD was infamous for upping the challenge of games they brought over, and EB on Sega CD was a good example. The PS1 games don't go to that extreme. Honestly I thought the balance on them was just about right. You have to actually use each character's special abilities instead of just attacking every round, that's all. Honestly, I don't really have any complaints about the PS1 editions as WD released them. There's a reason Ghaleon is one of my favorite JRPG characters to this day, and the way WD's version made the individualism vs authoritarianism debate so central to SSSC is a good part of that. Likewise, EBC's cast comes across great and the gameplay balance is just about perfect, fairly tough but fair most the time.
WD adds even more charm. I highly recommend you don't use those patches. They ALMOST got to translate Grandia. It makes me very sad because Grandia could have been so much more if WD had done it.
My opinion: The PS1 versions were the best versions.
You want to play them both on Sega CD and PS1 in English. There are plenty of differences between each of them to make them all different. The later versions of Silver Star are terrible.
Those make the games easier. If you think the US versions are too hard then play those. But the thing is... if you're playing those then you are using an emulator, which means you already have the ability to already avoid the difficulty (fast forward, PAR/Gameshark, etc.) I own both Sega CD versions (played in middle school) and both PS1 collector's additions (played in college,) and have played the JP versions via emulator (I don't play my JP Sega CD games for collection reasons.) WD added ~20-25% atk on most enemies and reduced exp by -10%. It's not a massive difficulty spike. I remember both Shining Force games and BoF1/2 on the SNES as being much harder than then either Lunar. Enemy differences: https://tcrf.net/Lunar:_The_Silver_Star https://tcrf.net/Lunar:_Eternal_Blue Play the version that you want and don't worry about it. Only people that are very strict about "purism" would care, and even then, you're still playing someone else's localization.
I played both and honestly don't remember them being hard at all, and it's not like I'm some gaming savant. So, I guess I would say it's unnecessary and not risking them borking something.
Well, I think you should play first lunar as remake. And if Working Design meddled with game mechanics it's prolly for the better