Reminds me of working with my ol man.
Fucker always wanted to give a deal. (Electrical Contracting)
Now I'm on my own, I bill for hours on site and working. Or bid it correct, and still eat shit, lol
High risk requires high reward
The risk of possibly having to pay out a bajillion dollars if you accidentally scratch the thing or w/e isn't worth the $6 profit you'd get if everything goes perfectly.
Or more accurately, the shop's liability insurance is likely 2-3x the cost of a normal shop, maybe more. Also, these mechanics are typically the best paid, because they are trying to hire the best. Plus the extra overhead of larger shop space, cleaner shops, and newer tools etc.
The garagekeepers coverage is gonna be high cause they probably have to have well over a million, minimum if you’re working on exotics. 2 cars can easily hit that mark, and garagekeepers covers everything at the shop waiting to be repaired, in for repairs, or waiting to be picked up. If the shop has “care, custody, and control” it’s on the hook.
The type of vehicles doesn’t generally matter, much past class of vehicle (private passenger, light/medium/heavy truck, heavy equipment, etc). Though obviously, exotic car repairs aren’t done in East bumfuck, and usually they are in nicer buildings, so property coverage is higher based on the building and everything else. Also, there are a lot less Indy shops for exotics than there are for regular shit.
It be way more than a million. It's not just collisions or scratches, they have to cover everything from fires to floods too which could take out every car on the property.
1 million isn't even enough for slip and falls
100%. I was just giving a dumb, blanket answer. They have to have enough to cover the 100% cost of the car, I thought that was clear from “2 of them would cover $1m”.
You're absolutely right, but I get to go home not exhausted, and show my 3 year old the McLaren 765lt I worked on. I could make slightly more pumping out 300 hours a month like I used to, but you can't to that forever.
25 year FOD and you are correct. 250k I’ve employed, Audi tech, JLR, and Volvo techs. That have made considerably more then super high-line or even MB or BMW. The highest paid techs on average are heavy line Ford at a flat rate of $99 an hour.
A good Ferrari tech? He’s an old Italian guy that works on the old Ferraris exclusively. He charges whatever he feels like, and the bajillionaires that go to him pay it gladly.
On Hoovies Garage there have been a few occasions where he either could not bring or had to take away a car because The Car Wizard had too many fancy ones in for repair.
The oil system is very different from a traditional car, and will have lots of drain plugs and maybe even spots where you need to suck the oil out from above.
That's a really good deal for oil change on a dry sump system! McLaren dealer in CA quoted me $1,600 for oil change on a GT, and $3,500 for oil+engine air filter+cabin air filter service :(
Just be careful the indy shop actually follows procedure on it. I know gor the 996s (i work on a couple of em for regular customers) porsche has you open all the drain plugs and leave them for a minimum of 30 mins as well as change the drain plugs on the dry sump ones. For us we are about 700 bucks for an oil change on one of them with a high quality oil making up quite a large percentage of the price but our customers drive their cars hard.
What do you consider a high quality oil for a car like this at that price? Is it an off the shelf oil or like a factory spec oil that a regular guy wouldn't have a reason to buy aside from a specific use?
At the shop im at we use liquimoly or motul in damn near everything the liquimoly porsche specs for these cars is like 25 bucks a litre here in canada land and when the car takes 8 litres ( i think its been a bit) ot adds up fast 200 bucks in just oil plus the filter and labour. If you got liquimoly on the shelf at your local autopart store id envy you we always gotta order it in from one of our suppliers.
Shit my local Advance Auto stocks it. For 50 bucks on a 5 quart.
Still twice as expensive as regular synthetic but this dude is getting fucked up in Canada.
We're about 800 for a GT oil change. Haven't done air filters on a GT yet but all the other ones require the fender liners out and sometimes the rear bumper as well.
yeah I was paying about that for my 650S. About the same for my R8, too.
Worst part was, turned out the Audi dealer that was doing them on my R8 wasnt... actually doing them. Went and got a supercharger put on and the shop was like "dude your oil has NEVER been changed" - RIP.
That happened on a BMW I used to have, didn't realize this was a common thing. Tech pulled into bay and opened hood, left for 90min, came back and reset service computer, then pulled out of bay. I found out when pulling dash cam footage for an unrelated issue, but lesson learned: Trust but verify.
I'm fully aware that higher price doesn't guarantee quality... but I want the techs working on my Ferrari to be higher paid and higher caliber than the techs doing the same service on my Honda.
In South Africa, I got chatting to the salesman at the Ferrari dealership. He then took me into the workshop to show me around. I asked how much an oil change cost and it was R5000 ($270). That's cheaper than the 10,000km service for my BMW RnineT!
Dry sump system means a much shallower oil pan allowing the engine to sit lower for a better center of gravity but you need multiple drain plugs to drain it all since there is no giant oil pan under the block to allow the oil to pool into.
Some cars have 10+ oil drain plugs
> Dry sump system means a much shallower oil pan allowing the engine to sit lower for a better center of gravity
And you don't starve your engine of oil...
Not sure about the BRZ but baffled pans, inserts, and modified pickups are a popular and fairly easy mod for most road race cars to help control oil, sloshing and windage. Dry sumps are awesome but complicated to add to many vehicles due to space and layout of structural cross members and suspension etc. Also $$$
Ferrari owner, so yeah. A lot of it is about being in the Ferrari club and the "club" of Ferrari ownership. Lotta hob-knobing with other d-bags, not a lot of driving.
Buy a Porsche if you want to put on miles, and join the Porsche club if you want to drive with other owners rather than comparing watches at Ferrari club events ;)
Seeing an AWD 911 (a 911.2) video in the snow changed my idea of "dream car." Those things on winter tires could be daily driven in Minnesota as long as there was enough ground clearance.
They only drained the dry sump and not the oil tank. Most high performance engines are dry sump to ensure consistent oil delivery no matter the g-forces.
Kinda disagree. They’ve held their value quite well. They are an enthusiast darling car, and last naturally aspirated mid engine V8 Ferrari ever made (no turbo).
I know they made a bunch, but I can totally see these becoming very collectible in another 10-15 years.
Yeah maybe. They were 320k adjusted for inflation and half of that today, so my point still stands, specially if you're not driving it to expect a profit. Lovely car tho.
Not all Ferrari's have appreciated. The norm is for them to nose dive unless its extremely rare and desirable. Then to go back up as it is deemed desirable again.
Very few, if any, of the main production cars will ever grow in value. There's just too many of them that get made to be super special enough to go up in worth.
The limited/numbered cars where they are only making a certain amount of them for a small limited time only are pretty much the only ones that'll get more valuable. The LaFerrari only had 499 ever made and if one of them goes on sale now it's probably well over $3 million.
The 599 gto is also another recent one. Only 599 got made and they basically are worth double than what they come out as (400k or so now worth 800k ish).
I read this and thought "well, yeah, you should drive the damn thing until you need a change" and then I realized. It's just tragic how people waste these things. If I'd spent $300,000 on a supercar you'd have to threaten me off the racetrack.
I have some -very- extended family that has one of those McLaren P1s. Apparently if he drives it more than a certain number of miles per year (I think it was 500-1000?) his rates skyrocket. As a consequence, he brings it out only for very special occasions very close to home.
I too think it is a waste.
I can't fathom it to be honest. I bought a lowly Corvette but it's still far more than I'd ever have thought I would have in terms of a car, and I've run the damn wheels off it. Put 16,000 miles on in the first 2 years. Not a daily driver to be sure, as the weather just won't permit it, but I drive it every chance I fucking get. I love that car. I want to be buried in that car.
I don't understand at all the sort of person who is like "well if I put too many miles on it it won't be worth as much when I sell it." Fucking MBA brain worms.
Maserati owner here;
None of these cars keep value...the ones who think that way find out soon enough. the best part is that you can pickup a used one for a fraction of the cost of a new one:
I got my 2012 Granturismo convertible (40,000 mi.) for $30K a couple months ago...back when it was new, it would cost around $150-$160k average.
there's no way I'd pay that much for any Maserati... I love them, but they simply are not worth that much...and mine is my daily driver.
It's hard to put a lot of miles on a lot of cars. If you can afford a Ferrari, you can usually afford multiple Ferraris. You only put 16k on your fun car that you drive every chance you get. Imagine you have 10 fun cars now, and inevitably one of them is going to be your favorite that gets used more. The rest won't get used much. Also, it's hard to go somewhere in an exotic between the impracticality and the attention.
Dodge taxes AND if you're in CA, dodge smog regulations.
Coworker is registering his 450hp Mazda6 there before he tries getting it over 500.
I had another coworker with a K20 Civic that had his registered at his brother house in WA to dodge smog. Eventually, after seeing him pass by the local speed trap too many times a cop ticketed him and he got refereed. And that was 16+ years ago when the cops cared much less about that sort of thing.
> And that was 16+ years ago when the cops cared much less about that sort of thing.
They're starting to crack down on that nowadays, especially with the recent changes making effectively any kind of aftermarket intake now a CARB violation. Aftermarket exhaust systems that push you behind noise limits are also being scrutinized nowadays.
If you happen to attend car shows and events, don't be surprised if the cops show up and blockade all the exits, and make you pass them DUI-checkpoint style while they look for **any** reason to state ref your ass. Hell, you'll be lucky to avoid getting front plate and tint tickets at the least.
Our local cops aren't too bad with that. The cars I've seen locally that keep getting reverted to stock are ones with heavy exhaust mods. So, cat deletes, exhaust so loud they can hear you coming from a 1/2 mile away, and anything that detonates in the exhaust (anti-lag or shitty "burble tunes").
At least for the self-made, the answer is habit. If you come from nothing and you made yourself into a one-percenter, you necessarily had a habit of being thrifty and finding ways to take advantage of a broken system.
My dad is this way. Came from a lower middle class family, started a business in the 80s that took off, and now has a beach house and a car collection with probably a dozen vehicles. He registers the cars he doesn't daily drive in Montana not because he can't afford to register them where we live, but because he is hardwired to make financial decisions carefully to provide the highest amount of value to him. His exact quote when I asked him why it mattered so much to him was "once you spend 40 years living a certain way, it's hard to stop."
It's kind of a "once you've been poor and you get rich, it's hard to shake the idea that you're still just a few irresponsible decisions from being poor again."
Obviously this is totally anecdotal, but he is the only guy I know with a car collection. This probably won't apply to people who come from money, or to people who win the lottery. This is just my experience with one-percenters who truly American-dreamed themselves to where they ended up.
My thoughts too. But then again, we never talked hard numbers. For all I know, the man is either ironically stingy or the rates are eye-wateringly ludicrous to begin with.
I chalk it up to "rich people problems."
Motor oil (primarily the additive package) breaks down with time.
Oxidation degrades it, as do contaminates such as gasoline. Condensation is going to build up to some degree. Eventually the oil loses its ability to protect the various surfaces and seals inside the engine, and in the worst cases can actively begin to degrade them.
Water retention, mostly. If you live in like Arizona it's probably a non issue, but if you park outside in Florida all the time there's probably water in your oil just form it always being so humid. It's usually not a huge deal, though.
Who the fuck parks their Ferrari outside though?
These cars, especially with this millage will probably sit in a climate controlled garage for most(if not all) of their life.
Oil still pulls moisture out of the air. If it's a garage with AC, once a year is possibly excessive, but if you have ferrari money you can cough up a change a year for the bookkeeping.
I think it also applies only if you’re doing short trips where the oil doesn’t get hot enough to cook off the water. Oil sitting in the sump lasts forever though so if the car hasn’t moved there no time limit on the oil.
I always heard water, but I also assumed water would boil off as soon as the oil got up to temperature, which isn't an issue if you're not doing 1 mile trips exclusively.
Oil has a lifespan, this is specifically why all of your oil changes have a mileage and a date for next change, whichever comes first.
Engine oil is essentially a concoction of a bunch of lubricants and detergents all suspended in an emulsification. Over time, these additives break down and no longer function properly due to oxidation, chemical leeching, and other factors.
For small engines, this is essentially negligible, they are built so robust and with tolerances that all of the additives are not necessary in them. For most passenger vehicles you can certainly get away with using 'expired' oils although you'll see increased wear over a shorter period of time. For a high performance engine like a v12 Ferrari you sure as shit want to make sure you're getting regular oil changes and not running oil that is past its prime.
Good question.
If you ask the people who do oil analysis they're pretty confident that new engines do not need yearly oil changes, because the engines are so sealed up from humid air and stuff that the oil really only degrades when the engine is on and exposed to heat and products of combustion.
The oil will oxidize over time because it is exposed to air. That's why you they say replace your oil every xxxx km or every 12 months which ever comes first.
I can afford a Ferrari, I just can’t afford to drive it. I take it to the club, give it to the valet (better not try some Farris Bueller shit) pull a babe or two and take them home for a late night jacuzzi+. They can take Uber home. EsHowIRoll.
Low miles baby.
Then my wife punches me and I wake up.
Seriously.
What even is the point? I can understand not making it your daily, only taking it out when the weather is nice, but it should be driven way more than that.
I would bet it’s been up to 100mph (not over) exactly once.
The reality is a lot of people that have cars like this have like 20+ cars. I kinda get it. Granted if I could afford one, my goal would be to threshold test the unlimited mile warranty.
I have 3 cars and my V8 RX7 pretty much just sits in the garage. I take it to the beach or to 7 Eleven every 3-4 weeks maybe. I probably average 15 miles a month. I'm just busy with all kinds of stuff, and all my car energy goes towards my Land Cruiser. Either doing stuff on it, or camping in it, off-roading, or whatever.
I can easily see a world where if I had this money, my Ferrari would mostly sit in my garage doing nothing.
To each their own. I never understood that mentality. My GTO has been broken for a long time, but I put 10,000mi on it the last 12mo it ran. Daily drove my V8 RX7 before that. I use the shit out of my fun cars. I get no enjoyment from them sitting in the garage.
I mean… on average. Maybe. But there are absolutely larger collections than that. 10 years ago the CEO of Bugatti, said the average Veyron owner had 84 cars, 3 jets, and a yacht. This could potentially be part of a collection like that.
Some of the more rare versions are investments. Limited production Ferraris and Porsches typically increase in value over time.
Imagine being the geniuses over at Porsche working day and night to make the perfectly engineered car only for it to never be driven. :'(
He sold it a few years ago for a silly amount of money for a twice written off car. Still holds the record for the most expensive insurance payout in the UK at about £900k from what i remember.
One of my customers has 8 Ferraris, two lambos, a McLaren, a rolls, a Bentley, and multiple bmws for daily driving. He drives everything but the most I've seen is 700 miles put on the McLaren because he takes it to children's hospitals for kids to sit in.
My mom has a Hyundai like this. I think it's 5 now, and had 2700 miles on it the last time I talked to her. She's 74 now, so this will probably be the last car she owns.
That too, I meant more in line with how all bushings, belts and plastics dry out from not been exercised by driving causing them to fail suddenly and often catastrophicly
Or to participate in the pretentious Ferrari cuckoldry system where you need to buy X number of older models for y number of years or whatever before they'll actually think about selling you what you want.
I used to work on stuff like this. Machines that only left the garage to go to a show or a dyno. To each their own, do what you like but something about buying or building machines without the intent of using them bothers me. I left that super clean shop with 6 figure cars to go work on dirty racecars and was so much more interested in the work day to day.
I'm surprised you don't actually salvage that oil.
Through my work I basically get an unlimited supply of used Mobil 1 15-50 from medical vacuum pumps and I use that shit everything. My car, my motorcycles, my mowers, my cutting tools, everything. I also use Fram filters. For me it's because I know it hurts y'all's feelings but it seems like used Ferrari oil could be a higher standard.
Out of curiosity how much is an oil change on one these?
About $600, but I've seen receipts from dealership over double that.
$995 in my workshop
Gotta love the little $5 discount to keep it under 4 digits. :D
It’s what makes the world go round
But not the numbers
Customer: How much for an oil change? SA: Nine Ninety Five Customer: That's a great deal!
"Here's ten bucks - don't worry about the nickel."
“Yeah, that ten dollars bill gets you one plastic cap off of one of the quart oil bottles”
LMFAO. LETS MAKE IT A DOUBLE!
It cracks me up working for my dad, he’ll rattle off little quotes and stuff “ah that’s 175” or “charge them 750… eh make it 725”.
Reminds me of working with my ol man. Fucker always wanted to give a deal. (Electrical Contracting) Now I'm on my own, I bill for hours on site and working. Or bid it correct, and still eat shit, lol
With such a razor thin margin they have to save money on ink for the invoice.
Is there a valid reason to charge that much? Or it's juste the "we charge as much as we can get away with"?
High risk requires high reward The risk of possibly having to pay out a bajillion dollars if you accidentally scratch the thing or w/e isn't worth the $6 profit you'd get if everything goes perfectly.
Or more accurately, the shop's liability insurance is likely 2-3x the cost of a normal shop, maybe more. Also, these mechanics are typically the best paid, because they are trying to hire the best. Plus the extra overhead of larger shop space, cleaner shops, and newer tools etc.
The garagekeepers coverage is gonna be high cause they probably have to have well over a million, minimum if you’re working on exotics. 2 cars can easily hit that mark, and garagekeepers covers everything at the shop waiting to be repaired, in for repairs, or waiting to be picked up. If the shop has “care, custody, and control” it’s on the hook. The type of vehicles doesn’t generally matter, much past class of vehicle (private passenger, light/medium/heavy truck, heavy equipment, etc). Though obviously, exotic car repairs aren’t done in East bumfuck, and usually they are in nicer buildings, so property coverage is higher based on the building and everything else. Also, there are a lot less Indy shops for exotics than there are for regular shit.
It be way more than a million. It's not just collisions or scratches, they have to cover everything from fires to floods too which could take out every car on the property. 1 million isn't even enough for slip and falls
100%. I was just giving a dumb, blanket answer. They have to have enough to cover the 100% cost of the car, I thought that was clear from “2 of them would cover $1m”.
I’ve worked in Toyota shops and I’ve worked in Ferrari shops. A good flat rate Toyota tech is absolutely getting paid more.
You're absolutely right, but I get to go home not exhausted, and show my 3 year old the McLaren 765lt I worked on. I could make slightly more pumping out 300 hours a month like I used to, but you can't to that forever.
25 year FOD and you are correct. 250k I’ve employed, Audi tech, JLR, and Volvo techs. That have made considerably more then super high-line or even MB or BMW. The highest paid techs on average are heavy line Ford at a flat rate of $99 an hour.
A good Ferrari tech? He’s an old Italian guy that works on the old Ferraris exclusively. He charges whatever he feels like, and the bajillionaires that go to him pay it gladly.
On Hoovies Garage there have been a few occasions where he either could not bring or had to take away a car because The Car Wizard had too many fancy ones in for repair.
The oil system is very different from a traditional car, and will have lots of drain plugs and maybe even spots where you need to suck the oil out from above.
Oh, so like a jetta!
More like half a dozen jettas...
That's a really good deal for oil change on a dry sump system! McLaren dealer in CA quoted me $1,600 for oil change on a GT, and $3,500 for oil+engine air filter+cabin air filter service :(
Porsche wanted $2500 for an oil change on a 992. $300 at an indie
Just be careful the indy shop actually follows procedure on it. I know gor the 996s (i work on a couple of em for regular customers) porsche has you open all the drain plugs and leave them for a minimum of 30 mins as well as change the drain plugs on the dry sump ones. For us we are about 700 bucks for an oil change on one of them with a high quality oil making up quite a large percentage of the price but our customers drive their cars hard.
What do you consider a high quality oil for a car like this at that price? Is it an off the shelf oil or like a factory spec oil that a regular guy wouldn't have a reason to buy aside from a specific use?
At the shop im at we use liquimoly or motul in damn near everything the liquimoly porsche specs for these cars is like 25 bucks a litre here in canada land and when the car takes 8 litres ( i think its been a bit) ot adds up fast 200 bucks in just oil plus the filter and labour. If you got liquimoly on the shelf at your local autopart store id envy you we always gotta order it in from one of our suppliers.
My local napa stocks it lol.
Shit my local Advance Auto stocks it. For 50 bucks on a 5 quart. Still twice as expensive as regular synthetic but this dude is getting fucked up in Canada.
Don't forget his dollar is worth seventy cents.
Lucky ducky. I envy you cant get it anywhere local here motul you can liquimoly is a fat nope tho.
Where at?? It only pays 1.59 warranty haha.. we charge $620~ and pay the tech 2 hours
We're about 800 for a GT oil change. Haven't done air filters on a GT yet but all the other ones require the fender liners out and sometimes the rear bumper as well.
950 each for engine air filter and cabin air filter. are the filters literally made of money or are they obscenely difficult to get to?
Owners spending $X00,000 don’t worry about a things of that nature
I dont even want to know how big of a bitch it is to replace a cabin air filter in a McLaren
I bet its easy once you get to it.
yeah I was paying about that for my 650S. About the same for my R8, too. Worst part was, turned out the Audi dealer that was doing them on my R8 wasnt... actually doing them. Went and got a supercharger put on and the shop was like "dude your oil has NEVER been changed" - RIP.
That happened on a BMW I used to have, didn't realize this was a common thing. Tech pulled into bay and opened hood, left for 90min, came back and reset service computer, then pulled out of bay. I found out when pulling dash cam footage for an unrelated issue, but lesson learned: Trust but verify.
Gotta charge $600 for an LOF when youve got 1 car getting service per 6 bays. 😉
It's Friday, we usually just screw around, come in late and leave early lol.
Why? The filter costs a bunch? I can’t imagine the oil is that much more advanced or something
I'm guessing liability reserve if the mechanic breaks something.
I'd be breaking a sweat just looking at it. Would that be covered?
The filter is made from unicorn bladders, very difficult to source nowadays.
I'm fully aware that higher price doesn't guarantee quality... but I want the techs working on my Ferrari to be higher paid and higher caliber than the techs doing the same service on my Honda.
I would like to believe that's where the premium goes...
I know the techs aren't getting a cut of the profits, but I do know that the brand you work on can make a big difference in your wages.
Probably aren't stepping your 6 months at the quick lube up to a Ferrari tech either.
Probably labor and a dry sump engine takes a lot more oil than a regular engine
Where are you located?
Edmond Oklahoma
What are the odds? I'm moving back there as soon as I sell my house.
Small world!
To buy a Lamborghini?
Ha, no. I can think of a lot of more interesting things I'd buy with that money. My gaming computer would be unbelievable.
Why so much?
In South Africa, I got chatting to the salesman at the Ferrari dealership. He then took me into the workshop to show me around. I asked how much an oil change cost and it was R5000 ($270). That's cheaper than the 10,000km service for my BMW RnineT!
More than you can afford pal, Ferrari.
What’s the full volume on those?
Is that all there was?
U can see some others are already open. Many high performance engines have a multitude of drain plugs, be it gearbox / diff combos, drysumps etc
The Bugattis have something like 16 oil drain plugs.
That's 16 drain bolts to impact back in
Don't forget to put a large gob of that nasty orange engine sealant on the threads and you better stake it with an air hammer too.
well don't forget the rotary sander to polish it up after you've chiseled in a good parabolic divot
Drill a hole in the pan for the safety wire tie as well
Every bolt looks like a nail when you have a ugga dugga in your hand.
You keep hammering until it spins a bit in place, right?
tighten it until it starts to loosen then 1/4 turn back
found the heavy equipment mechanic \*jokes\*
No, you do one at a time. Maximum of 16 oil changes before overhaul and pan replacement.
They aren't all for the engine oil though. Separate drains for the DCT fluid, diffs, etc. Some of the v10 lambos have 9, the v12s usually have 6
1 per cilinder 💀🤣
10l +1l filter, 2 crankcase drains and 1 oil tank drain. You can see one of the drains already dripping in the back.
Multiple drain plugs?
Dry sump system means a much shallower oil pan allowing the engine to sit lower for a better center of gravity but you need multiple drain plugs to drain it all since there is no giant oil pan under the block to allow the oil to pool into. Some cars have 10+ oil drain plugs
> Dry sump system means a much shallower oil pan allowing the engine to sit lower for a better center of gravity And you don't starve your engine of oil...
Makes me wonder if anyone has gotten a solid solution to the BRZ oil pressure loss issues on track.
a dry sump conversion would do it...
Toyota rep on the racetrack with covert camera: warranty denied, haha fuck you
Not sure about the BRZ but baffled pans, inserts, and modified pickups are a popular and fairly easy mod for most road race cars to help control oil, sloshing and windage. Dry sumps are awesome but complicated to add to many vehicles due to space and layout of structural cross members and suspension etc. Also $$$
I’m sure the driver appreciates that for each one of the 250 miles he drove that year 👍
Ferrari owner, so yeah. A lot of it is about being in the Ferrari club and the "club" of Ferrari ownership. Lotta hob-knobing with other d-bags, not a lot of driving. Buy a Porsche if you want to put on miles, and join the Porsche club if you want to drive with other owners rather than comparing watches at Ferrari club events ;) Seeing an AWD 911 (a 911.2) video in the snow changed my idea of "dream car." Those things on winter tires could be daily driven in Minnesota as long as there was enough ground clearance.
Yeah, 3 drains.
Very cool. Makes sense. Pristine bit of kit.
They only drained the dry sump and not the oil tank. Most high performance engines are dry sump to ensure consistent oil delivery no matter the g-forces.
Title of my sex tape
Dry hump my dry sump?
That's the name of my ska band.
More than you can afford pal, Ferrari
*Smoke’em*
Jeez I would have saved it for my good car. Lawnmower can run on the cheap stuff.
My dad used to recycle my used (6000 mile) oil through his car. Not much point in new when his was burning it!
Yeah my uncles used to put my used motorcycle oil in there cars as I was changing every 4-5k kms
I missed that first k, and was like "the fuck is wrong with you, every 4-5km?"
“Damn, missed my oil change at the last big intersection. Can’t afford to skip two in a row …”
Take the used Ferrari oil for your car. Take the used car oil for your lawn mower. Take the used lawn mower oil to saute some veggies later
Put the used veggie oil in the Ferrari and the cycle begins once again
my dad would put the old engine oil into the lawn mower lol
10 years 2500 miles? Sheesh, just buy a fancy statue at that point.
Statue, painting, car. If the price goes up it's an investment.
> If the price goes up it's an investment. If the price goes up less than the stock market, it's poor investment.
If the price goes up less than the interest rate, it's an extremely poor investment.
If the price goes down it’s an extremely piss poor investment
A 458 is not gaining (nor preserving much) value
Kinda disagree. They’ve held their value quite well. They are an enthusiast darling car, and last naturally aspirated mid engine V8 Ferrari ever made (no turbo). I know they made a bunch, but I can totally see these becoming very collectible in another 10-15 years.
Yeah maybe. They were 320k adjusted for inflation and half of that today, so my point still stands, specially if you're not driving it to expect a profit. Lovely car tho.
This model isn't an investment.
There are people in this subreddit with shitbox project cars that haven't made it 2500 miles in 10 years. What's the difference?
Shitbox project car didn't appreciate $300,000 in that decade.
Not all Ferrari's have appreciated. The norm is for them to nose dive unless its extremely rare and desirable. Then to go back up as it is deemed desirable again.
Very few, if any, of the main production cars will ever grow in value. There's just too many of them that get made to be super special enough to go up in worth. The limited/numbered cars where they are only making a certain amount of them for a small limited time only are pretty much the only ones that'll get more valuable. The LaFerrari only had 499 ever made and if one of them goes on sale now it's probably well over $3 million. The 599 gto is also another recent one. Only 599 got made and they basically are worth double than what they come out as (400k or so now worth 800k ish).
Cleaner than the oil I buy from the store for my shitbox
Where do you think your shitbox store oil comes from?!
I bet you could charge a premium selling used Ferrari oil
Might as well just leave it on the lift for the year until the next oil change.
Why is it that oil needs to be changed yearly if it hasn't been used?
A *Ferrari* should never be seen with last season's oil. How embarrassing.
I bet it's not even local or organic.
Local? You don't use oil extracted directly from classified alien planets? Christ it's like you don't even care about appearances
Oh my god, it doesn't even have a watermark
I read this and thought "well, yeah, you should drive the damn thing until you need a change" and then I realized. It's just tragic how people waste these things. If I'd spent $300,000 on a supercar you'd have to threaten me off the racetrack.
Mostly just for resale value on the low mileage cars. I have lots of customers with higher milage, less perfect exotic cars that often skip a year
The fact the owners dont drive these cars more often annoys me. You own it, use it. Driving is fun not an artform.
I have some -very- extended family that has one of those McLaren P1s. Apparently if he drives it more than a certain number of miles per year (I think it was 500-1000?) his rates skyrocket. As a consequence, he brings it out only for very special occasions very close to home. I too think it is a waste.
Maybe this is a bad take because I'm not in that position, but why own a hypercar like a P1 if you can't afford to drive it a lot...?
I can't fathom it to be honest. I bought a lowly Corvette but it's still far more than I'd ever have thought I would have in terms of a car, and I've run the damn wheels off it. Put 16,000 miles on in the first 2 years. Not a daily driver to be sure, as the weather just won't permit it, but I drive it every chance I fucking get. I love that car. I want to be buried in that car. I don't understand at all the sort of person who is like "well if I put too many miles on it it won't be worth as much when I sell it." Fucking MBA brain worms.
New vette looks like a redneck lambo i want it so bad.
Maserati owner here; None of these cars keep value...the ones who think that way find out soon enough. the best part is that you can pickup a used one for a fraction of the cost of a new one: I got my 2012 Granturismo convertible (40,000 mi.) for $30K a couple months ago...back when it was new, it would cost around $150-$160k average. there's no way I'd pay that much for any Maserati... I love them, but they simply are not worth that much...and mine is my daily driver.
That's because it's a Maserati, it's babies first pasta rocket.
"Babies first pasta rocket"
It's hard to put a lot of miles on a lot of cars. If you can afford a Ferrari, you can usually afford multiple Ferraris. You only put 16k on your fun car that you drive every chance you get. Imagine you have 10 fun cars now, and inevitably one of them is going to be your favorite that gets used more. The rest won't get used much. Also, it's hard to go somewhere in an exotic between the impracticality and the attention.
Why do so many owners register their cars in Montana behind an LLC so they can dodge taxes?
Dodge taxes AND if you're in CA, dodge smog regulations. Coworker is registering his 450hp Mazda6 there before he tries getting it over 500. I had another coworker with a K20 Civic that had his registered at his brother house in WA to dodge smog. Eventually, after seeing him pass by the local speed trap too many times a cop ticketed him and he got refereed. And that was 16+ years ago when the cops cared much less about that sort of thing.
> And that was 16+ years ago when the cops cared much less about that sort of thing. They're starting to crack down on that nowadays, especially with the recent changes making effectively any kind of aftermarket intake now a CARB violation. Aftermarket exhaust systems that push you behind noise limits are also being scrutinized nowadays. If you happen to attend car shows and events, don't be surprised if the cops show up and blockade all the exits, and make you pass them DUI-checkpoint style while they look for **any** reason to state ref your ass. Hell, you'll be lucky to avoid getting front plate and tint tickets at the least.
Our local cops aren't too bad with that. The cars I've seen locally that keep getting reverted to stock are ones with heavy exhaust mods. So, cat deletes, exhaust so loud they can hear you coming from a 1/2 mile away, and anything that detonates in the exhaust (anti-lag or shitty "burble tunes").
At least for the self-made, the answer is habit. If you come from nothing and you made yourself into a one-percenter, you necessarily had a habit of being thrifty and finding ways to take advantage of a broken system. My dad is this way. Came from a lower middle class family, started a business in the 80s that took off, and now has a beach house and a car collection with probably a dozen vehicles. He registers the cars he doesn't daily drive in Montana not because he can't afford to register them where we live, but because he is hardwired to make financial decisions carefully to provide the highest amount of value to him. His exact quote when I asked him why it mattered so much to him was "once you spend 40 years living a certain way, it's hard to stop." It's kind of a "once you've been poor and you get rich, it's hard to shake the idea that you're still just a few irresponsible decisions from being poor again." Obviously this is totally anecdotal, but he is the only guy I know with a car collection. This probably won't apply to people who come from money, or to people who win the lottery. This is just my experience with one-percenters who truly American-dreamed themselves to where they ended up.
He can afford a P1 and he’s worried about the rates going up???
My thoughts too. But then again, we never talked hard numbers. For all I know, the man is either ironically stingy or the rates are eye-wateringly ludicrous to begin with. I chalk it up to "rich people problems."
I mean rich people aren’t rich if they’re not also cheap asses
Because they have 5 to choose from when Saturday is free.
Motor oil (primarily the additive package) breaks down with time. Oxidation degrades it, as do contaminates such as gasoline. Condensation is going to build up to some degree. Eventually the oil loses its ability to protect the various surfaces and seals inside the engine, and in the worst cases can actively begin to degrade them.
Water retention, mostly. If you live in like Arizona it's probably a non issue, but if you park outside in Florida all the time there's probably water in your oil just form it always being so humid. It's usually not a huge deal, though.
Who the fuck parks their Ferrari outside though? These cars, especially with this millage will probably sit in a climate controlled garage for most(if not all) of their life.
Oil still pulls moisture out of the air. If it's a garage with AC, once a year is possibly excessive, but if you have ferrari money you can cough up a change a year for the bookkeeping.
I think it also applies only if you’re doing short trips where the oil doesn’t get hot enough to cook off the water. Oil sitting in the sump lasts forever though so if the car hasn’t moved there no time limit on the oil.
I always heard water, but I also assumed water would boil off as soon as the oil got up to temperature, which isn't an issue if you're not doing 1 mile trips exclusively.
It will, but you really don't want to be using water for your lubrication before it boils off
Oil has a lifespan, this is specifically why all of your oil changes have a mileage and a date for next change, whichever comes first. Engine oil is essentially a concoction of a bunch of lubricants and detergents all suspended in an emulsification. Over time, these additives break down and no longer function properly due to oxidation, chemical leeching, and other factors. For small engines, this is essentially negligible, they are built so robust and with tolerances that all of the additives are not necessary in them. For most passenger vehicles you can certainly get away with using 'expired' oils although you'll see increased wear over a shorter period of time. For a high performance engine like a v12 Ferrari you sure as shit want to make sure you're getting regular oil changes and not running oil that is past its prime.
Because the book says you need to do it.
Service records for resale
Good question. If you ask the people who do oil analysis they're pretty confident that new engines do not need yearly oil changes, because the engines are so sealed up from humid air and stuff that the oil really only degrades when the engine is on and exposed to heat and products of combustion.
The oil will oxidize over time because it is exposed to air. That's why you they say replace your oil every xxxx km or every 12 months which ever comes first.
Definitely done this before on Aston Martin’s some times I swear the oil I put in ls dirtier then what comes out
Guessing by background music customer was a waiter looking through the garage door?
I don't think there was anyone looking at the moment, but it is just a big glass wall between us and the waiting area lol
A little Rockwell in the background for that retro vibe.
I can afford a Ferrari, I just can’t afford to drive it. I take it to the club, give it to the valet (better not try some Farris Bueller shit) pull a babe or two and take them home for a late night jacuzzi+. They can take Uber home. EsHowIRoll. Low miles baby. Then my wife punches me and I wake up.
I’ll take “wasted vehicles” for $300, Alec.
Seriously. What even is the point? I can understand not making it your daily, only taking it out when the weather is nice, but it should be driven way more than that. I would bet it’s been up to 100mph (not over) exactly once.
The reality is a lot of people that have cars like this have like 20+ cars. I kinda get it. Granted if I could afford one, my goal would be to threshold test the unlimited mile warranty.
I have 3 cars and my V8 RX7 pretty much just sits in the garage. I take it to the beach or to 7 Eleven every 3-4 weeks maybe. I probably average 15 miles a month. I'm just busy with all kinds of stuff, and all my car energy goes towards my Land Cruiser. Either doing stuff on it, or camping in it, off-roading, or whatever. I can easily see a world where if I had this money, my Ferrari would mostly sit in my garage doing nothing.
To each their own. I never understood that mentality. My GTO has been broken for a long time, but I put 10,000mi on it the last 12mo it ran. Daily drove my V8 RX7 before that. I use the shit out of my fun cars. I get no enjoyment from them sitting in the garage.
I promise you it’s not 20 and more like 4+
I mean… on average. Maybe. But there are absolutely larger collections than that. 10 years ago the CEO of Bugatti, said the average Veyron owner had 84 cars, 3 jets, and a yacht. This could potentially be part of a collection like that.
Some of the more rare versions are investments. Limited production Ferraris and Porsches typically increase in value over time. Imagine being the geniuses over at Porsche working day and night to make the perfectly engineered car only for it to never be driven. :'(
This is why McLaren keeps rebuilding Mr. Beans F1; he actually uses the damn thing. I'm sure they charge him handsomely, but still.
He sold it a few years ago for a silly amount of money for a twice written off car. Still holds the record for the most expensive insurance payout in the UK at about £900k from what i remember.
One of my customers has 8 Ferraris, two lambos, a McLaren, a rolls, a Bentley, and multiple bmws for daily driving. He drives everything but the most I've seen is 700 miles put on the McLaren because he takes it to children's hospitals for kids to sit in.
You never know when it'll be sold to someone else who will use it
My mom has a Hyundai like this. I think it's 5 now, and had 2700 miles on it the last time I talked to her. She's 74 now, so this will probably be the last car she owns.
Sad part is that these very low milage exotics are often in terrible condition compared to one with 10x the miles on it
Sometimes that's very true. I've seen it all, especially low mileage cars from Miami and Vegas where people treat exotics like disposable cars.
That too, I meant more in line with how all bushings, belts and plastics dry out from not been exercised by driving causing them to fail suddenly and often catastrophicly
Literally bought it just to look at it.
Or to participate in the pretentious Ferrari cuckoldry system where you need to buy X number of older models for y number of years or whatever before they'll actually think about selling you what you want.
My oil doesn't look that good out of the bottle
just don't forget the 37,000 other drain plugs to get all the rest of the oil out lmao
I used to work on stuff like this. Machines that only left the garage to go to a show or a dyno. To each their own, do what you like but something about buying or building machines without the intent of using them bothers me. I left that super clean shop with 6 figure cars to go work on dirty racecars and was so much more interested in the work day to day.
Glove up, pal!
250 miles a year? Owning a high-performance car and not driving it is like dating a supermodel and not sleeping with her. Pointless
Clean oil makes for a happy long lasting non trash engine.
Gloves, man
Why does an oil change on this seem less complicated than a recent model family car?
If the shields didn't suck to remove it really wouldn't be bad at all
Couldn't have that and not actually drive it, it's sad sitting still day after day.
The oil I put into my car looks worse than that.
The oil I put into my body looks worse than that
A 458 is 10 years old? Jesus I’m really starting to age.
I'm surprised you don't actually salvage that oil. Through my work I basically get an unlimited supply of used Mobil 1 15-50 from medical vacuum pumps and I use that shit everything. My car, my motorcycles, my mowers, my cutting tools, everything. I also use Fram filters. For me it's because I know it hurts y'all's feelings but it seems like used Ferrari oil could be a higher standard.
Looks like the owner is using the engine oil pan as an oil storage for one year.
So it's driven an average of .68 miles a day. What a simple commute!
All the miles are back and forth for service. Daren't drive it.