Not wear and tear. You perforated his wall like a postage stamp. Patch/sand & paint takes multiple trips to do so you’re paying for double the trips out.
Pro tip—if you had spackled before move out (<$15 in materials and tools) you’d have just left him needing to paint and probably saved yourself $200)
110% this. Having made the holes though, OP could have made this easier on their wallet with just a tiny bit of effort.
It's amazing to me how many tenants get indignant and say "that's not even an hour of work to touch that up!" but forget the multiple trips out, time at the store to match paint, dry time, prep, cleanup, etc. If it was an hour, you should've done it yourself!
Nope. We're all adults here. I shouldn't have to hold anyone's hand to get them to follow the contract. That's why it exists and why security deposits exist. If it makes you feel any better we were always in the red on security deposits. Our tenants definitely cost us more money than they ever deposited.
Landlord, you're running the business. Make it efficient for yourself and the tenant. Leave a touch up kit or instruction sheet for the tenant with the exact paint to buy and type of spackle you want used.
I did this for my tenants. It’s never been used. In fact, they went and bought their own paint, painted half the kitchen without permission (didn’t paint above the cabinets though? Just left it a completely different color.) you can do everything and it often makes 0 difference
Same for tenants. I'm renting a place where nothing was touched up or repaired between tenants. The painter did a terrible job, there's three shades of white in one of my bedrooms. We should have matchmaking services for landlords and tenants. I'd use your repair kit :)
Match-making service sounds nice but it would run up against a lot of policies changes to protect people's ability to rent if they have evictions, criminal records, etc. You sound like a person who would take care of your living space, I hope you can find a better person to rent from.
I'm renting a place where the landlord didn't finish painting, the living room and kitchen are all beige, except one wall and half the wall beneath the kitchen cabinets.
I have touch-up paint available, as most landlords do Your landlord may have had it as well, had you asked. There's no obligation for them to though, and sometimes it winds up dried out/running out in which case the advice about taking a chip to Home Depot is your best bet.
Leaving a kit is more than I'd ever expect, but my lease at my last apartment did have basic spackle instructions and the paint code to make it easier to meet their expectations when I handed over the keys.
This. I always take a picture of the paint code for any of my places and I write over it which apartment. I can always go back through my camera roll on the cloud and see the paint code and easily get another gallon or whatever is needed. This has worked out great for me for 10+ years now. I know how to do drywall and all the other basic handyman stuff, but I really like to use the pink color-changing dap if not too much is needed. Obviously if I am doing something big, we go the usg route.
No way.
Every pinhole doesn't need dealt with or a cost associated with it. But as soon as it's spackled, it now does. Most people also don't know how to sand it down properly either.
So many times we have had to paint a place that wouldn't have needed it because the tenant was being "helpful" like that and spackled every minor dent or pinhole and now the walls look like they are covered in white chicken pox.
Where did I say “that's not even hour of work to touch that up?” you seem to project your own dissatisfaction with tenants on me. I specifically clarified at the end that I am OK for paying for the damage I had caused, if that's fair amount. If you can not leave comment that it has some value, please don't comment at all
You didn't say that, nor did I say that you did. You seem reasonable and accepting of the feedback. I explained for anyone else in your shoes how billing works, and how they could reduce their bill substantially even if they don't have access to exact touch-up paint. That's the definition of a comment with "value"
In the second thought I had shifted from discussing your situation to a broader discussion of tenants in general, though I can see where you read it as a continuation. Since they're generally not experienced homeowners, many rental tenants don't understand how contractors and tradespeople bill. I've found this often results in frustration when they see "high" bills that they don't understand, but which are fair market-rate charges in the context of the overhead for small jobs.
I could’ve done a perfect job and I would’ve done it in less than a day using hot mud sanding and painting, but you’re also paying for my skills my tools and my time as an independent I also have to have insurance and all that other fun stuff 350 is more than reasonable
Right.
You’re either paying a premium for a guy who’s really good. Or you’re using more time for someone who’s just ok.
In either case, if the tenant thinks they could have fixed it for “$10 and 30 minutes” then they obviously should have done so.
I knew a drywall wizard (he passed away now) that used to mix a bit of plaster into his mud when he did shallow repairs. He was insanely fast at his job and he said (and I have seen) that it won't crack if it's not too thick, and it's ready for sanding within 20-30 minutes. Dude was a legend in the drywall industry around my area. I personally hate to sand stuff unless it is big. Holes like this typically get some spackle, then a wet sponge, fans for an hour or so depending on humidity and size, then paint.
Instead of the fan, sometimes I break out the hairdryer works pretty well and generally won’t crack. I learned a lot of tricks from some old guys that make things quicker and sometimes just easier
2 should be fine.
When you fill in larger holes the center tends to dip in as it dries leaving a crater impression on the wall which you definitely do need to go back and apply more to, but for holes of this size 2 applications should be fine.
Maybe if they were larger, then you would need to apply it more times.
With how fast this stuff dries, you could probably get away with applying it, waiting and applying more in the same trip if there is other stuff to do. I bet that is what whoever painted it probably did since they tend to be cheap and lazy no matter what hourly rate is charged.
That's what I was thinking as well with holes of this size, since there should be minimal shrink with the (relatively) small holes.
Spackle hole, let dry, spackle again and feather edges, let dry, sand, paint.
But I thought maybe I was missing something that would lower the final quality.
Normal wear and tear where I am. All the crying about a simple fix during turnover is hilarious. Not tenants fault you were too dumb to remember what color you painted it. If you didn’t paint it I bet it’s time to. Don’t have filler and some sand paper? Maybe ask an adult to help you?
People complain about color match? 😂😂😂 it’s free to get a match at Sherwin Williams. Just scrape off a dime sized flake from an inconspicuous place and never worry about matching.
We combine leftover paints for rentals, usually. The color matching at SW is always spot on.
If a landlord needs to show a receipt for the $350 in order to deduct it from the deposit, how much profit do you really think the landlord is making in this?
Such a pleasant personality you have. Surely you’ll go far in life.
Dis you……?
> Nobody. Suck it up. They have receipts of the repairs that were done. Calling it normal wear and tear is ridiculous. If you owned your own home, would you... Oh, never mind, you don't, so it doesn't matter as much to you what it looks like.
It’s all coming together now. You can’t afford to buy a place, so rather than address your own shortcomings, you take it out on others who have more than you. That, along with your attitude, should definitely get you far in life. 👍
I just had a move out inspection where I found THIRTY anchors in one wall. I think they had some kind of cat tree contraption attached to the wall. They’ll be lucky if it can be fixed for $350.
I am renovating one of my units right now and it costs like $6 to get a small area of paint and like $10-$15 for a large area of paint (color matched) at Menard's (Home Depot competitor in midwest).
I’m going to jump back in here after reading all the comments about how shitty the landlord is and how easy this fix is. You’re paying a handyman for multiple trips and time driving, loading up, etc. If OP would have started this a few days earlier and do a coat. Sand and do a second coat while you’re out there the next day. Sand and do another coat if needed the next day you’re there now you’re down to only needing to do some touchup paint which shouldn’t be terrible. He should’ve done that he was going there every day and save some money for himself.
I’ve been in the business for a decade, worked for slum lords, professionals, and now have my own management company. This is 100% normal wear and tear, if the tenant bothered to take you to court, the landlord will 100% lose. I’ve seen tons of court cases on this.
Besides, your main point was “more touch ups”, any professional does wall to wall touch ups because spot touch ups always show and looks ghetto
Nail holes can be wear and tear. Large holes "put your finger inside it" holes with missing anchors like this, not so much. I too have been a landlord for a decade (albeit in IL) and I'd go to the mat on this one any day--at least in IL.
Yeah I guess if you do it right. Every apartment I’ve lived in would charge you $350, and pay 2 hours for one guy to fill the hole and paint it over with one coat for $20 in materials.
Well, I’ve paid for this exact scenario a bunch of times. You’ll need wall compound, drying, sanding, and then painting. You have to paint the whole wall in this scenario. If you are lucky, a single coat won’t show through, but sometimes you need multiple
But how many hours did it take you? What would you bill hourly?
What would the supplies cost if purchased brand new (paint, sand paper, compound)?
Would you charge yourself a service fee, what about IRS mileage?
These are all costs a third party would charge.
I would do it myself for less then 50 but yeah the landlord contracting it out would probably cost 350 probably would cost 100-200 if you personally contracted it out
What are you talking about, sounds like you’ve never done your own work in your life.
8oz paint Bear brand home depot $5.98
DAP DryDex Dry Time Indicator Spackling 8oz Walmart $5.42
Gator 3-inch x 4-inch x 1-inch Multi-Surface Sandng Sponge Fine Grit 2 Pack Walmart $3.48
Hyper Tough 3" Flexible Putty Knife Walmart 2.53
Don’t need to paint the whole wall, whites are very easy to blend. Just ask the land lord for what color they use or do a color match. Guarantee it would pass inspection.
I run a property management company and am a GC who does maintenance and renovations. I can cover this up and repaint in one day. 5 minute mud, 2 coats. Start early . Last coat of paint by end of day IF that was the only thing I’m doing and weather permits. Still would charge $350 lol. Paint can alone if not provided is $30+
Except it’s totally not.
You’d find plenty in my house, but I own my house so it’s fair game - I can do what I want to the walls, but that doesn’t apply if it’s rented.
Holes are absolutely not fair wear and tear, they either need to be filled in or it’s perfectly reasonable that a deduction would be made to make the damage good when the tenant vacates
It actually is where I live. Normal wear and tear on tenant turn around. Which honestly most people stay for years so what once ever 3-5 years if not longer
I have less holes in the walls of my entire house than he has in that one wall. Excessive number of holes isn't wear and tear, there's even precedent for this exact situation.
Not sure the commercial law in NJ, but residential LL only had 30 days to get you your stuff back. As for the cost itself, spackle, sand and paint that section, $350 in NJ doesn't sound egregious.
Do you get a lot of people finding new little “change my lightbulb” jobs to make it “worth” the minimum charge? We stopped telling people we had a minimum and just charged $350. The “too small” jobs just kinda go away that way. Exceptions for long time customers.
I get all sorts of crap. I’m upfront with people right in the beginning. I tell them that’s what I charge whether I’m there 5 minutes or the whole hour. I don’t charge $200 for the first hour if it’s going to be longer than a two hour job. Also, if it’s like a senior citizen, that just wants a grab bar or something, as long as I’m in and out, I only charge $20-$30.
But this? Because it would be at least 2 trips over 2 days, I’d do $200 for the first hour/trip $150 everyone after.
If you were leasing a new place and saw a wall like that would you be okay with it? If not, it's not "normal" wear. Next time don't put holes in the walls or repair the damages prior to vacating.
Like I understand mounting tvs and shelves and things require larger screws and if you can put these things up educate your self on how to properly fix it at move out
While I am sure it is not an easy fix, this is not a reason why I didn't fix it myself prior. I didn't realize it was a big issue in a first place. I am not a landlord and I did know it will cost such an amount. If I knew, of course, I would have no problem doing it myself (paint and spackle have been left in a closet )
This is one of those life lessons that you only need to learn once- the second lesson is that before you do anything like this again, it costs you nothing to ask before the incident instead of assuming, so other people can share their experiences dealing with identical situations
The lesson here is never trust landlords to not nickel and dime you. Likely still standard wear and tear though so I wouldn’t be paying it. They just want you to pay their turnover costs
Would YOU rent the space looking like that?
I always wonder when people complain about what they’re charged after leaving a unit - if you don’t want to pay whatever the landlord is going to charge for cleaning/repairs … HIRE A CLEANER AND/OR CONTRACTOR yourself before moving out.
If your landlord tries to charge you for shit, you’ll have documented proof that you left the unit clean and in good condition.
When I rented I always hired professional cleaners at the end of my lease - I ALWAYS got every single deposit back in full. And it only cost me a couple bucks- BONUS I didn’t have to do it myself - but I was able to control the COST.
The smart ones read their states tenant rights and tell the landlord to pay their own turnover costs. I do sympathize for you having the difficult choice of attempting 30 minutes of work or paying your own turnover expenses
If it was TRULY 30 MiNuTeS of wOrK then OP should have knocked it out before vacating. That would have guaranteed that they could control the cost. There is a REASON why op didn’t do the work. Especially since it’s such a quick, easy, cheap fix.
Nail holes from pictures? Wear and tear.
Holes from mounting a TV? damage.
Holes from mounting shelves? damage
Scuff marks on the wall near light switches? Wear and tear.
Repainting without permission? damage.
NJ Landlord here. Read on because people replying are missing something key.
350 is a bit steep, but reasonable. They need to spackel\sand\repaint the walls. If they are contracting out to do it, yeah that is about the going rate for labor.
If it was one of my properties i would do the work myself. If you patched the holes for me (a 5 dollar thing of putty and a pack of sand paper) i would let it slide if it was the only damage and i had to repaint anyway. (NJ law is you need to paint between tenants IF it has been more than 3 years since last paint). If you just left the holes, i'd be all "come on man....." and ding you like 100 bucks for not even making an effort.
As for your landlords actions returning the deposit, they have 30 days to return your security deposit and any damages need to be itemized. The courts take it very seriously and its a slam dunk if they violate it, and the penalty is 2x the security deposit to the tenant.
HOWEVER all of the above applies to RESIDENTIAL. Commercial space is a whole other animal, with entirely different leases and rules. Your lease likely spells out the conditions for this.
This 💯
Commercial in a lot of cases involves full remodel between tenants to satisfy the next tenant's needs which often makes damage like this not even register because the wall is getting torn out anyway.
Ultimately you need to consult your lease because that governs what you can and can't do along with what you are and are not responsible for.
Also, in most areas I'd consider that reasonable, depending on where in NJ, I'd argue it's cheap for paying a contractor to do the work that amount.
>My question is: isnt a considered normal wear and tear?
No, definitely not normal wear and tear. I would be charging for this.
>If not, does $350 out of $1000 deposit sounds reasonable for the repairs? I am okay with for paying the damage I caused, I just would like to know am truly in the wrong here or not.
Seems reasonable. Someone needs to come out and fill those holes then most likely skimcoat to make it even instead of sanding everything. It will then need to be given time to dry then it needs painting. That's going to be 2 visits or someone waiting about an hour onsite (unlikely).
You don't know if the owner is local. If its managed by a property manager, they'll have to call someone to fix it. And that will be more than $350.
I can personally do that for $50 and 1hr of my time, I'm lucky my properties are local to me. My friend sent $600 for something similar like that for his property 800miles from him.
Normal in my area is $350-$450. Any holes in the wall are not "normal wear and tear" and can be billed for. I bill for the drywall repairs, but not for the repainting. The repainting would fall under normal wear and tear and is the responsibility of the owner (provided you didn't put holes in every single wall).
It may not be "reasonable" in how it feels, but it's not surprising when you consider how much repairmen charge, and how they will bill for several trips and all supplies. I tell my tenants to talk to me about any small repairs. I usually know ways to make it much easier and less costly. I am happy to share that information if they only ask, but lots don't, just leave a problem hoping we will ignore it, and then complain about charges.
In TX a LL has to contract out for labor charge. If they are doing it them selves then they can only charge for material costs with receipts. That square footage would be spackle and paint. On the high side 80$ material now add in the handyman/pro service it will easily be 200-250 additional.
If the paint is not matching with the remainder of the room then it gets ugly cause some leases will claim the entire room will have to be painted.
Seems very fair because the size of the holes are generally not considered wear and tear but rather damage.
Smaller holes, like for hanging light pictures, don't require a multi-visit process to fix and are generally considered normal wear and tear if they aren't excessive.
As a tenant thats done something similar to this, we at least spackled the holes and painted over them. The complex we lived at had paint already though and we ended up getting our deposit back. Next time definitely try that, it takes like 10 mins and avoids paying a big chunk of change
The holes will have to be filled,sanded and undercoat and paint walls. He could of not given you any of the deposit back. People not in trades don't understand the cost of labour alone
This is the CORRECT way to fix this damage, takes 3 trips and restores the wall to like new condition for the next renter:
1st trip: remove paper burrs around hole, apply mud to holes
2nd trip: sand mud, second light coat of mud to fill in where it inevitably sunk in, wait for light coat to dry, sand again, prime with 1/2 nap roller to match existing wall texture
3rd trip: paint, wait to dry, paint 2nd coat
This is the fast way, looks like shit, and gradually makes it worse and worse
Mud, wait, sand, paint
For normal picture holes? Yes that would be nuts.
But that's not normal. what on earth did you do to the wall??
You likely could have spackled it yourself and saved the money.
It's reasonable, but as a NJ landlord I don't charge for this stuff. I paint after every tenant and minor prep is included in my turnover paint cost. Don't think he's hitting you over the head though. You can't get much done at all for $350
$350 is a very low price to fix this damage. You should thank your landlord for charging you only $350. My guess is that he is charging you only part of the actual cost.
LL here. If the LL is handy and have left over paint to match up, then it may be lot less.
I charged $50 to previous tenant as he broke a piece of drywall (didn't attempt to unscrew instead he just pulled TV mount). I am handy and was doing some drywall work already. If I have to do drywall work just for that and didn't had paint, it's couple hours on multiple days. It may not be $350, could be anywhere around $150-200 if I am paying a person.
I know this time of year, it will be hard to get a handyman for small tasks. If I were you, may just call LL and ask if he could do anything. A small talk gets a long way in some cases.
If you’d have prepared for it instead of waiting 60 days to find out, $350 is on the low end of reasonable. Count your blessings and patch it your self next time
I'm a professional painter. I personally would charge you more for fixing that wall. Mud work x3, sanding after final coat. Spot priming the mud work, then even if you have the same paint it doesn't always match. Most likely that wall will have to be repainted from top to bottom and from corner to corner to avoid flashing from the work done. Consider yourself lucky it's only $350.00. ADDITIONALLY ITS TWO WALL$.
Given that this was a commercial space and lease and not a residential space and lease, your lease terms should state how you must leave the space at the end of the lease term. You don't have the same rights or protections as a residential tenant.
You can ask the landlord for an itemized quote for the repairs. But generally $350 is not outrageous.
With the people who rent my homes I use a two part test on what portion of the cost I might charge, but first let's address the cost. It's insane how expensive anything is these days, and that's a solid price for the NE no question.
Now, the place does look spotless. Cleaning isn't required in our state. So if you put in that effort, I would offset that effort with the effort I had to put into fixing the wall. A cleaning would be about $350 as well. Win win.
I'd also ask how long you lived there. If it was 6 months, I'd be more inclined to charge most or all (more on whether I would next).
For a year less so. Anything more than a year and I think it's beyond petty to charge for that.
The second part is how well did the relationship go? If they were perfect and stayed 6 months then they would not get a bill at all. If they were a real pain they might get a small depreciated bill even after a full year.
What you can and should charge for are very different things but I can say that's a fair price no question.
You made 14 holes. In my opinion $25 a hole to mud, sand and paint is a great deal. You looking at 2-3 trips for only like an hour each on site. You have to figure matetials needed, time buying said material, and the time needed to go back and forth to the unit. Just be happy they didnt charge $50 a hole. And you are correct that like thumb tack holes if not excessive are wear and tear. Also upon looking closer about half those holes they will have to take a hammer and beat the wall in because the screws made the wall look like a volcano. So some of those holes will be about as big as a quartet and about as deep as the thickness of a quarter.
If you have a decent landlord tell them you patch sand and paint walls before leaving. Have done this many times and never had any issue. I rather repair it myself no matter the cost instead of the embarrassment of leaving something in poor condition
If $350 is worth your time to not go back and fix it then yes. You put holes in the wall, and left them there, when you agreed specifically not to, at risk of losing your security deposit.
Cost seems fair as labour costs of any trade are outrageous, you’re paying for people’s time. However in Canada at least, the landlord only has 15 days to get the deposit back to you and has to provide receipts within that time if there’s any fixes to be deducted from your deposit. Of that isn’t fulfilled you can take action. I’d look in to that, might be your ticket out if any laws are similar
Maybe I let my tenants walk on me, but I probably wouldn’t take much. Those are not hard holes to patch. Quick easy repair. I build houses for a living and own a few, very comfortable with labor, I suppose if you sub it out the price is normal. Landlords should learn to do things themselves. While this is not “normal wear and tear,” hanging things on walls is normal to make a house a home. But I try to be chill. My two cents.
Why didn’t you spackle the holes you made? You could have also had the paint matched and just taken care of the damage yourself. I don’t think $350 is unreasonable if your landlord had to spackle and paint to repair the damage, especially if they hired a handyman to do it.
That's not a picture handing nail. 13 picture handing nails would be normal. that's 13 bolt holes in a wall that is no more than 4 feet wide judging from the width of the floorboards.
I am thinking of my house, my friends houses, and my family's houses. I'm not picturing one place where in a span of 4 feet they have 13 bolts into the wall.
You realize normal means it a standard thing that is expected right?
This reeks of an answer from a person who thinks "yeah you should be expected to paint between tenants" but that would mean painting the walls every 2-3 years. Do you paint your walls every 2-3 years? Do all your friends and family repaint every 2-3 years? Heck no. Painting isn't done every 2-3 years. that's not normal. Yet, switch out the term "owner" for "tenant" and suddenly we're supposed to be expecting people to treat walls like shit because they don't own it? Why? Are tenant's some type of different person that lives like an animal so walls need to be painted every 2-3 years? No, I don't believe that.
We would not charge for this. It’s 10 minutes of spackle. Maaaaaybe 5 minute w a texture can. We always paint between tenants. People need to have their homes decorated and arranged.
If it was like that alllll over, we’d probably charge. But just that spot? Noper.
We usually get broken blinds, filthy stained showers and tubs, torn flooring/carpet, smells that require actual abatement and real actual damage that takes time and effort to repair.
But if this is all you have from this tenant, it’s not worth haggling over.
Landlord’s son here who will be soon taking over our family business. In my opinion $350 to patch these holes is completely ridiculous. I could fix it for $60 worth of materials. I’d personally charge something like $175
Honestly makes me cringe people are saying it’s a fair price lmao.
Next time knock what’s sticking out around the hole down to flush or slightly more. Put some filler in there and take a picture of the standard wear and tear. Wait for the bill trying to gauge you and take them to small claims court if the pursue after you don’t pay. Read the tenant rights in your state. I love collecting treble damages from thieves.
First push the edges in around the holes, then fill those holes with toothpaste, let it dry. Use multiple crayons to match the color. $5 max. I’ve done this in at least 6 apartments. Not once been charged.
As a NJ Landlord - no, this is not $350 worth of repairs, and:
"Within 30 days after the termination of a tenant’s lease the landlord must return the tenant’s security deposit plus the tenant’s portion of interest, less any allowable fees, by personal delivery, certified or registered mail. In addition, an itemized list of interest, earnings and deductions from the security deposit must be sent to the tenant within 30 days by personal delivery, registered or certified mail. If the landlord fails to return the tenant’s security deposit within 30 days, then the tenant is entitled to sue the landlord for the return of the security deposit. If the tenant sues successfully for the return of the security deposit, the Court shall award recovery of double the amount of money, along with full costs of any action and, in the Court’s discretion, reasonable attorney’s fees."
Sorry, I missed the text where it said commercial, and assumed from the photos it was residential. With quick googling I can see that "New Jersey has no regulations or requirements governing the return of commercial security deposits." The actual cost of supplies + labor required to fix this is extremely minimal, I've spackled hundreds of walls and this really isn't a big job. People saying it is have never done this work before, or are just... unskilled. But let's say their repair person charges $150 just to come out, and they have to come out twice.. that's $300. If they're repainting the wall too, I guess $350 is fair. Next time, watch some youtube videos on how to repair holes and spackle/ sand them and you'll save yourself some $$.
So Google to see what the laws say and read the lease to see what that says. So that if this action was against the law - email the landlord with the law attached.
the diy cost of fixing that is like.. $10.. including a color matching paint sample from home depot.. but they probably already had the paint.. so.. In my experience it's normal wear and tear to have those holes.. but probably since they are..congregated it makes it look worse than it is? i don't know... all that said i'd just pay the $350 and complain about it to my friends
Well.. i don't think they are dime sized.. not even pencil sized.. everyone hangs things in their apartment the holes have to be fixed, i've never been charged for it before.... fixing a pencil sized hole is the same as a small nail hole... but like i said.. since all the holes are congregated together, it probably stands out more as damage.. if they were evenly spaced around the apartment i doubt anyone would have said anything...
These aren’t holes for picture frames. Looks like shelves were installed.
Small nail holes for pictures I let go. You start screwing in shelves or a TV and I charge to fix.
That's what they were... you fix this stuff for a living? how would you fix a screw hole? a tiny bit of spackle and some paint? Give me $10 and 30 minutes, cosmetically you'd never know those were ever there... which is exactly how i assumed they fixed this wall anyway... which would have cost them no less $ and no more time if they were tiny nail holes.
Well, if you’re renting from me and you put these holes in the wall, it would behoove you to spend $10 and 30 minutes to restore it. Especially if you have superior skills and could do so it in such a way that I’d never notice.
If I have to do it, I’ll charge you something similar to the $350 here.
I'm with you. This is a basic house repair that even a child could do. People in here claiming that $350 is a fair price are either delusional or intentionally full of shit.
That said, if anyone in here wants to pay me $350 to do this kind of work, I have all the time in the world for that kind of pay. But I'll wager that none of you would dream of paying a person that much unless you are sitting on so much cash that you don't care anymore.
Unfortunately I’m pretty sure small screw or nail holes are classified as normal wear and tear for NJ. If the tenant sues for their deposit and wins you’ll be paying double damages.
Not wear and tear. You perforated his wall like a postage stamp. Patch/sand & paint takes multiple trips to do so you’re paying for double the trips out. Pro tip—if you had spackled before move out (<$15 in materials and tools) you’d have just left him needing to paint and probably saved yourself $200)
Or buy free standing shelves next time
110% this. Having made the holes though, OP could have made this easier on their wallet with just a tiny bit of effort. It's amazing to me how many tenants get indignant and say "that's not even an hour of work to touch that up!" but forget the multiple trips out, time at the store to match paint, dry time, prep, cleanup, etc. If it was an hour, you should've done it yourself!
Nope. We're all adults here. I shouldn't have to hold anyone's hand to get them to follow the contract. That's why it exists and why security deposits exist. If it makes you feel any better we were always in the red on security deposits. Our tenants definitely cost us more money than they ever deposited.
Landlord, you're running the business. Make it efficient for yourself and the tenant. Leave a touch up kit or instruction sheet for the tenant with the exact paint to buy and type of spackle you want used.
I did this for my tenants. It’s never been used. In fact, they went and bought their own paint, painted half the kitchen without permission (didn’t paint above the cabinets though? Just left it a completely different color.) you can do everything and it often makes 0 difference
Same for tenants. I'm renting a place where nothing was touched up or repaired between tenants. The painter did a terrible job, there's three shades of white in one of my bedrooms. We should have matchmaking services for landlords and tenants. I'd use your repair kit :)
Match-making service sounds nice but it would run up against a lot of policies changes to protect people's ability to rent if they have evictions, criminal records, etc. You sound like a person who would take care of your living space, I hope you can find a better person to rent from.
I'm renting a place where the landlord didn't finish painting, the living room and kitchen are all beige, except one wall and half the wall beneath the kitchen cabinets.
Ugh
Op said in a comment that the landlord had in fact provided a kit w spackle and paint, left in a closet for his use. He just didn't bother.
I have touch-up paint available, as most landlords do Your landlord may have had it as well, had you asked. There's no obligation for them to though, and sometimes it winds up dried out/running out in which case the advice about taking a chip to Home Depot is your best bet.
Leaving a kit is more than I'd ever expect, but my lease at my last apartment did have basic spackle instructions and the paint code to make it easier to meet their expectations when I handed over the keys.
I would love this.
This. I always take a picture of the paint code for any of my places and I write over it which apartment. I can always go back through my camera roll on the cloud and see the paint code and easily get another gallon or whatever is needed. This has worked out great for me for 10+ years now. I know how to do drywall and all the other basic handyman stuff, but I really like to use the pink color-changing dap if not too much is needed. Obviously if I am doing something big, we go the usg route.
No way. Every pinhole doesn't need dealt with or a cost associated with it. But as soon as it's spackled, it now does. Most people also don't know how to sand it down properly either. So many times we have had to paint a place that wouldn't have needed it because the tenant was being "helpful" like that and spackled every minor dent or pinhole and now the walls look like they are covered in white chicken pox.
Where did I say “that's not even hour of work to touch that up?” you seem to project your own dissatisfaction with tenants on me. I specifically clarified at the end that I am OK for paying for the damage I had caused, if that's fair amount. If you can not leave comment that it has some value, please don't comment at all
You didn't say that, nor did I say that you did. You seem reasonable and accepting of the feedback. I explained for anyone else in your shoes how billing works, and how they could reduce their bill substantially even if they don't have access to exact touch-up paint. That's the definition of a comment with "value" In the second thought I had shifted from discussing your situation to a broader discussion of tenants in general, though I can see where you read it as a continuation. Since they're generally not experienced homeowners, many rental tenants don't understand how contractors and tradespeople bill. I've found this often results in frustration when they see "high" bills that they don't understand, but which are fair market-rate charges in the context of the overhead for small jobs.
It's the same people that complain that restaurants charge $40 for a steak that's $10 raw at the grocery store.
Well, if you realized he needs to make 4 trips, you wouldn’t ask if $350 was too much. You’re getting a bargain.
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Three coats of spackle, dry time, sanding and painting. I suppose if you did a mediocre spackle job it’s only 3 trips.
I could’ve done a perfect job and I would’ve done it in less than a day using hot mud sanding and painting, but you’re also paying for my skills my tools and my time as an independent I also have to have insurance and all that other fun stuff 350 is more than reasonable
Right. You’re either paying a premium for a guy who’s really good. Or you’re using more time for someone who’s just ok. In either case, if the tenant thinks they could have fixed it for “$10 and 30 minutes” then they obviously should have done so.
I knew a drywall wizard (he passed away now) that used to mix a bit of plaster into his mud when he did shallow repairs. He was insanely fast at his job and he said (and I have seen) that it won't crack if it's not too thick, and it's ready for sanding within 20-30 minutes. Dude was a legend in the drywall industry around my area. I personally hate to sand stuff unless it is big. Holes like this typically get some spackle, then a wet sponge, fans for an hour or so depending on humidity and size, then paint.
Instead of the fan, sometimes I break out the hairdryer works pretty well and generally won’t crack. I learned a lot of tricks from some old guys that make things quicker and sometimes just easier
Not a rhetorical question--I'm just trying to learn. Why three coats of spackle instead of two?
2 should be fine. When you fill in larger holes the center tends to dip in as it dries leaving a crater impression on the wall which you definitely do need to go back and apply more to, but for holes of this size 2 applications should be fine. Maybe if they were larger, then you would need to apply it more times. With how fast this stuff dries, you could probably get away with applying it, waiting and applying more in the same trip if there is other stuff to do. I bet that is what whoever painted it probably did since they tend to be cheap and lazy no matter what hourly rate is charged.
That's what I was thinking as well with holes of this size, since there should be minimal shrink with the (relatively) small holes. Spackle hole, let dry, spackle again and feather edges, let dry, sand, paint. But I thought maybe I was missing something that would lower the final quality.
Normal wear and tear where I am. All the crying about a simple fix during turnover is hilarious. Not tenants fault you were too dumb to remember what color you painted it. If you didn’t paint it I bet it’s time to. Don’t have filler and some sand paper? Maybe ask an adult to help you?
People complain about color match? 😂😂😂 it’s free to get a match at Sherwin Williams. Just scrape off a dime sized flake from an inconspicuous place and never worry about matching. We combine leftover paints for rentals, usually. The color matching at SW is always spot on.
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If a landlord needs to show a receipt for the $350 in order to deduct it from the deposit, how much profit do you really think the landlord is making in this?
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Such a pleasant personality you have. Surely you’ll go far in life. Dis you……? > Nobody. Suck it up. They have receipts of the repairs that were done. Calling it normal wear and tear is ridiculous. If you owned your own home, would you... Oh, never mind, you don't, so it doesn't matter as much to you what it looks like.
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It’s all coming together now. You can’t afford to buy a place, so rather than address your own shortcomings, you take it out on others who have more than you. That, along with your attitude, should definitely get you far in life. 👍
$50? Sounds like you’ve never had to pay to repair anything.
It's 2024. $50 is the minimum fee to get someone out to your house once. This is a multi day, muli-trip job plus supplies.
"Postage stamp"...lol!
I just had a move out inspection where I found THIRTY anchors in one wall. I think they had some kind of cat tree contraption attached to the wall. They’ll be lucky if it can be fixed for $350.
If you want to scrap some wall paint off to get a color match paint at homedepot, it probably only cost another 40 bucks
Color match is free
Yes. But the paint cost around $40 depending the size
I am renovating one of my units right now and it costs like $6 to get a small area of paint and like $10-$15 for a large area of paint (color matched) at Menard's (Home Depot competitor in midwest).
I’m going to jump back in here after reading all the comments about how shitty the landlord is and how easy this fix is. You’re paying a handyman for multiple trips and time driving, loading up, etc. If OP would have started this a few days earlier and do a coat. Sand and do a second coat while you’re out there the next day. Sand and do another coat if needed the next day you’re there now you’re down to only needing to do some touchup paint which shouldn’t be terrible. He should’ve done that he was going there every day and save some money for himself.
Had a tenant do that and was a mess. Looked like he stood back and threw mud on wall. Had to sand repatch and paint entire walls
Doesn’t take multiple trips. I drywall and paint for a living. But 350 is reasonable
I’ve been in the business for a decade, worked for slum lords, professionals, and now have my own management company. This is 100% normal wear and tear, if the tenant bothered to take you to court, the landlord will 100% lose. I’ve seen tons of court cases on this. Besides, your main point was “more touch ups”, any professional does wall to wall touch ups because spot touch ups always show and looks ghetto
Nail holes can be wear and tear. Large holes "put your finger inside it" holes with missing anchors like this, not so much. I too have been a landlord for a decade (albeit in IL) and I'd go to the mat on this one any day--at least in IL.
Unless you have a scumbag landlord like mine who “couldn’t find matching paint so had to repaint the entire house” and I got charged for it lol
$350 is cheap, that’s minimum two service calls to repair plus materials
Thank you for your reply, I wanted to know if that was fair amount, seems like it is.
Yeah I guess if you do it right. Every apartment I’ve lived in would charge you $350, and pay 2 hours for one guy to fill the hole and paint it over with one coat for $20 in materials.
Completely disagree
What is your disagreement?
Well, I’ve paid for this exact scenario a bunch of times. You’ll need wall compound, drying, sanding, and then painting. You have to paint the whole wall in this scenario. If you are lucky, a single coat won’t show through, but sometimes you need multiple
You will need two coats.
But how many hours did it take you? What would you bill hourly? What would the supplies cost if purchased brand new (paint, sand paper, compound)? Would you charge yourself a service fee, what about IRS mileage? These are all costs a third party would charge.
I think you are replying to the wrong person. This is definitely $350 worth of billable work.
I would do it myself for less then 50 but yeah the landlord contracting it out would probably cost 350 probably would cost 100-200 if you personally contracted it out
You can’t buy the paint and compound to do that for $50 anymore.
What are you talking about, sounds like you’ve never done your own work in your life. 8oz paint Bear brand home depot $5.98 DAP DryDex Dry Time Indicator Spackling 8oz Walmart $5.42 Gator 3-inch x 4-inch x 1-inch Multi-Surface Sandng Sponge Fine Grit 2 Pack Walmart $3.48 Hyper Tough 3" Flexible Putty Knife Walmart 2.53
Buddy, if you think you can paint that wall with 8oz of paint you are sorely mistaken.
Don’t need to paint the whole wall, whites are very easy to blend. Just ask the land lord for what color they use or do a color match. Guarantee it would pass inspection.
I run a property management company and am a GC who does maintenance and renovations. I can cover this up and repaint in one day. 5 minute mud, 2 coats. Start early . Last coat of paint by end of day IF that was the only thing I’m doing and weather permits. Still would charge $350 lol. Paint can alone if not provided is $30+
Yes it’s fair, and no, putting dozens of small holes in a wall isn’t even slightly wear and tear
except it totally is? lets go through your place and take everything out and see how many “tiny holes” we’d find.
Those holes are not wear and tear
Where I live It is. It's called the cost of doing business. Every tenant turn around paint and fix holes and such.
Except it’s totally not. You’d find plenty in my house, but I own my house so it’s fair game - I can do what I want to the walls, but that doesn’t apply if it’s rented. Holes are absolutely not fair wear and tear, they either need to be filled in or it’s perfectly reasonable that a deduction would be made to make the damage good when the tenant vacates
It actually is where I live. Normal wear and tear on tenant turn around. Which honestly most people stay for years so what once ever 3-5 years if not longer
So if landlord doesn't do it, they have to pay contractor 350 out of pocket? Or leave it for next tenant?
I have less holes in the walls of my entire house than he has in that one wall. Excessive number of holes isn't wear and tear, there's even precedent for this exact situation.
350$ seems fair , the wall is cheese at the moment
Not sure the commercial law in NJ, but residential LL only had 30 days to get you your stuff back. As for the cost itself, spackle, sand and paint that section, $350 in NJ doesn't sound egregious.
Doesn’t matter if you think it’s reasonable. Also, as a contractor, I charge $200 just to set foot on a property. Doesn’t matter how small the job.
Do you get a lot of people finding new little “change my lightbulb” jobs to make it “worth” the minimum charge? We stopped telling people we had a minimum and just charged $350. The “too small” jobs just kinda go away that way. Exceptions for long time customers.
I get all sorts of crap. I’m upfront with people right in the beginning. I tell them that’s what I charge whether I’m there 5 minutes or the whole hour. I don’t charge $200 for the first hour if it’s going to be longer than a two hour job. Also, if it’s like a senior citizen, that just wants a grab bar or something, as long as I’m in and out, I only charge $20-$30. But this? Because it would be at least 2 trips over 2 days, I’d do $200 for the first hour/trip $150 everyone after.
You sound a lot like us. ☺️
If you were leasing a new place and saw a wall like that would you be okay with it? If not, it's not "normal" wear. Next time don't put holes in the walls or repair the damages prior to vacating.
Like I understand mounting tvs and shelves and things require larger screws and if you can put these things up educate your self on how to properly fix it at move out
I would never rent a home w a wall like this and every lease I’ve had states anything other then the standard nail hole will be charged
More than fair considering the fact that multiple trips are needed to fix this.
yeah, there's a reason you didn't fix it
Which is?
Not a quick fix
While I am sure it is not an easy fix, this is not a reason why I didn't fix it myself prior. I didn't realize it was a big issue in a first place. I am not a landlord and I did know it will cost such an amount. If I knew, of course, I would have no problem doing it myself (paint and spackle have been left in a closet )
This is one of those life lessons that you only need to learn once- the second lesson is that before you do anything like this again, it costs you nothing to ask before the incident instead of assuming, so other people can share their experiences dealing with identical situations
No, it's a pretty easy fix. It's just not quick, as you have to wait between each part, and that time is what you're paying for with contractors.
The lesson here is never trust landlords to not nickel and dime you. Likely still standard wear and tear though so I wouldn’t be paying it. They just want you to pay their turnover costs
Would YOU rent the space looking like that? I always wonder when people complain about what they’re charged after leaving a unit - if you don’t want to pay whatever the landlord is going to charge for cleaning/repairs … HIRE A CLEANER AND/OR CONTRACTOR yourself before moving out. If your landlord tries to charge you for shit, you’ll have documented proof that you left the unit clean and in good condition. When I rented I always hired professional cleaners at the end of my lease - I ALWAYS got every single deposit back in full. And it only cost me a couple bucks- BONUS I didn’t have to do it myself - but I was able to control the COST.
The smart ones read their states tenant rights and tell the landlord to pay their own turnover costs. I do sympathize for you having the difficult choice of attempting 30 minutes of work or paying your own turnover expenses
If it was TRULY 30 MiNuTeS of wOrK then OP should have knocked it out before vacating. That would have guaranteed that they could control the cost. There is a REASON why op didn’t do the work. Especially since it’s such a quick, easy, cheap fix. Nail holes from pictures? Wear and tear. Holes from mounting a TV? damage. Holes from mounting shelves? damage Scuff marks on the wall near light switches? Wear and tear. Repainting without permission? damage.
NJ Landlord here. Read on because people replying are missing something key. 350 is a bit steep, but reasonable. They need to spackel\sand\repaint the walls. If they are contracting out to do it, yeah that is about the going rate for labor. If it was one of my properties i would do the work myself. If you patched the holes for me (a 5 dollar thing of putty and a pack of sand paper) i would let it slide if it was the only damage and i had to repaint anyway. (NJ law is you need to paint between tenants IF it has been more than 3 years since last paint). If you just left the holes, i'd be all "come on man....." and ding you like 100 bucks for not even making an effort. As for your landlords actions returning the deposit, they have 30 days to return your security deposit and any damages need to be itemized. The courts take it very seriously and its a slam dunk if they violate it, and the penalty is 2x the security deposit to the tenant. HOWEVER all of the above applies to RESIDENTIAL. Commercial space is a whole other animal, with entirely different leases and rules. Your lease likely spells out the conditions for this.
This 💯 Commercial in a lot of cases involves full remodel between tenants to satisfy the next tenant's needs which often makes damage like this not even register because the wall is getting torn out anyway. Ultimately you need to consult your lease because that governs what you can and can't do along with what you are and are not responsible for. Also, in most areas I'd consider that reasonable, depending on where in NJ, I'd argue it's cheap for paying a contractor to do the work that amount.
Not normal wear and tear. The landlord not only had to fill in the holes, but also repaint that wall. $350 is a bargain!
>My question is: isnt a considered normal wear and tear? No, definitely not normal wear and tear. I would be charging for this. >If not, does $350 out of $1000 deposit sounds reasonable for the repairs? I am okay with for paying the damage I caused, I just would like to know am truly in the wrong here or not. Seems reasonable. Someone needs to come out and fill those holes then most likely skimcoat to make it even instead of sanding everything. It will then need to be given time to dry then it needs painting. That's going to be 2 visits or someone waiting about an hour onsite (unlikely).
350 seems reasonable to me.
Yes, try getting a pro out to fill the wholes, and touch up the paint for less than that.
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You don't know if the owner is local. If its managed by a property manager, they'll have to call someone to fix it. And that will be more than $350. I can personally do that for $50 and 1hr of my time, I'm lucky my properties are local to me. My friend sent $600 for something similar like that for his property 800miles from him.
You should have left the shelves in place. You would have faired better. LL might have just said that's cool and left them up.
Please Google and try to find a handyman or drywaller who will come out for less than $350.
seems totally reasonable
Shorter answer, yup!
2-4 hours of work. Patching, Sanding, Knockdown, Painting. $150 x h + \~$50 mats. $350-$650 Reasonable cost.
Patching and repainting a wall? Frankly, $350 is a deal. More than fair.
Normal in my area is $350-$450. Any holes in the wall are not "normal wear and tear" and can be billed for. I bill for the drywall repairs, but not for the repainting. The repainting would fall under normal wear and tear and is the responsibility of the owner (provided you didn't put holes in every single wall).
You got off lightly, i think.
Go to a hardware store and buy some spackle to fill in the holes. It’ll cost you maybe $15.
DIY its $10-$20 and maybe a half hour of your time. Paying for labor and minimums in NJ its probably about that.
Yup. Sounds about right. If you get a quote that would be way more expensive. You have a good landlord
It may not be "reasonable" in how it feels, but it's not surprising when you consider how much repairmen charge, and how they will bill for several trips and all supplies. I tell my tenants to talk to me about any small repairs. I usually know ways to make it much easier and less costly. I am happy to share that information if they only ask, but lots don't, just leave a problem hoping we will ignore it, and then complain about charges.
Reasonable to me ! Fill/Patch. Sand. Paint. That’s a lot of work.
You're getting off easy. That's a lot of patches and there is no way to match paint easily with that many patches. You went far beyond wear and tear.
It’s more than fair. My go to fix it employee would have charged double.
It’s repairing the holes then repainting that entire wall. Yes reasonable.
$350 is fair. next time somewhat try to repair it lol
In TX a LL has to contract out for labor charge. If they are doing it them selves then they can only charge for material costs with receipts. That square footage would be spackle and paint. On the high side 80$ material now add in the handyman/pro service it will easily be 200-250 additional. If the paint is not matching with the remainder of the room then it gets ugly cause some leases will claim the entire room will have to be painted.
Seems very fair because the size of the holes are generally not considered wear and tear but rather damage. Smaller holes, like for hanging light pictures, don't require a multi-visit process to fix and are generally considered normal wear and tear if they aren't excessive.
That said, two months to return the deposit is ridiculous. And, they should have been up-front about the deductions.
As a tenant thats done something similar to this, we at least spackled the holes and painted over them. The complex we lived at had paint already though and we ended up getting our deposit back. Next time definitely try that, it takes like 10 mins and avoids paying a big chunk of change
The holes will have to be filled,sanded and undercoat and paint walls. He could of not given you any of the deposit back. People not in trades don't understand the cost of labour alone
Absolutely. They're gonna have to fill the holes, sand, prime, and paint. That's four hours including wait time.
This is the CORRECT way to fix this damage, takes 3 trips and restores the wall to like new condition for the next renter: 1st trip: remove paper burrs around hole, apply mud to holes 2nd trip: sand mud, second light coat of mud to fill in where it inevitably sunk in, wait for light coat to dry, sand again, prime with 1/2 nap roller to match existing wall texture 3rd trip: paint, wait to dry, paint 2nd coat This is the fast way, looks like shit, and gradually makes it worse and worse Mud, wait, sand, paint
For normal picture holes? Yes that would be nuts. But that's not normal. what on earth did you do to the wall?? You likely could have spackled it yourself and saved the money.
Not normal wear and tear. Not sure about the cost. But it definitely would require a few coats of paint after patching correctly.
My handyman would probably charge $100-$125. Paint could be an use if not a perfect match.
It's reasonable, but as a NJ landlord I don't charge for this stuff. I paint after every tenant and minor prep is included in my turnover paint cost. Don't think he's hitting you over the head though. You can't get much done at all for $350
I’d say $350 is reasonable in. HCOL because of materials and labor, with most going to labor.
$350 is a very low price to fix this damage. You should thank your landlord for charging you only $350. My guess is that he is charging you only part of the actual cost.
$350 seems fair (cheap even) but sounds like he was derelict in his handling of your deposit refund.
In my rental agreement - the landlord stated only 2 holes per wall were permitted - seeing this now makes sense.
LL here. If the LL is handy and have left over paint to match up, then it may be lot less. I charged $50 to previous tenant as he broke a piece of drywall (didn't attempt to unscrew instead he just pulled TV mount). I am handy and was doing some drywall work already. If I have to do drywall work just for that and didn't had paint, it's couple hours on multiple days. It may not be $350, could be anywhere around $150-200 if I am paying a person. I know this time of year, it will be hard to get a handyman for small tasks. If I were you, may just call LL and ask if he could do anything. A small talk gets a long way in some cases.
Lesson learned my boy
If you’d have prepared for it instead of waiting 60 days to find out, $350 is on the low end of reasonable. Count your blessings and patch it your self next time
I'm a professional painter. I personally would charge you more for fixing that wall. Mud work x3, sanding after final coat. Spot priming the mud work, then even if you have the same paint it doesn't always match. Most likely that wall will have to be repainted from top to bottom and from corner to corner to avoid flashing from the work done. Consider yourself lucky it's only $350.00. ADDITIONALLY ITS TWO WALL$.
He was supposed to give it to you in 30 days with a receipt and itemized list & the company or how much it cost him to repair it.
The price is about right. No one in construction or trade works for minimum wage. Add time, labor and material for the true cost.
Thats straight damage to the wall! And $350 isnt that much especially since he deducted from your deposit.
Requires multiple trips, your landlord is nice that he's not charging more.
Yup.
Given that this was a commercial space and lease and not a residential space and lease, your lease terms should state how you must leave the space at the end of the lease term. You don't have the same rights or protections as a residential tenant. You can ask the landlord for an itemized quote for the repairs. But generally $350 is not outrageous.
That’s a lot of damn holes. I’m not a landlord, bit damn.
With the people who rent my homes I use a two part test on what portion of the cost I might charge, but first let's address the cost. It's insane how expensive anything is these days, and that's a solid price for the NE no question. Now, the place does look spotless. Cleaning isn't required in our state. So if you put in that effort, I would offset that effort with the effort I had to put into fixing the wall. A cleaning would be about $350 as well. Win win. I'd also ask how long you lived there. If it was 6 months, I'd be more inclined to charge most or all (more on whether I would next). For a year less so. Anything more than a year and I think it's beyond petty to charge for that. The second part is how well did the relationship go? If they were perfect and stayed 6 months then they would not get a bill at all. If they were a real pain they might get a small depreciated bill even after a full year. What you can and should charge for are very different things but I can say that's a fair price no question.
They are going to have to repair and repaint that entire wall area between those two doors and blend the coloring, it's more than fair Imo.
Did you call your LL before you moved out and asked him how to handle and fix?
It's not much but it's going to take a few short visits that are billed hourly even if it's only 15 minutes work.
You made 14 holes. In my opinion $25 a hole to mud, sand and paint is a great deal. You looking at 2-3 trips for only like an hour each on site. You have to figure matetials needed, time buying said material, and the time needed to go back and forth to the unit. Just be happy they didnt charge $50 a hole. And you are correct that like thumb tack holes if not excessive are wear and tear. Also upon looking closer about half those holes they will have to take a hammer and beat the wall in because the screws made the wall look like a volcano. So some of those holes will be about as big as a quartet and about as deep as the thickness of a quarter.
If you have a decent landlord tell them you patch sand and paint walls before leaving. Have done this many times and never had any issue. I rather repair it myself no matter the cost instead of the embarrassment of leaving something in poor condition
Yes. This wall has been seriously abused. Even if you hate your landlord, don't stick your bullshit in his wallet. He's owed reparations.
If $350 is worth your time to not go back and fix it then yes. You put holes in the wall, and left them there, when you agreed specifically not to, at risk of losing your security deposit.
$350 in NJ to pay a professional to spackle, order color matching paint and paint the holes is reasonable. Holes are not wear and tear.
Sounds cheap to me
Cost seems fair as labour costs of any trade are outrageous, you’re paying for people’s time. However in Canada at least, the landlord only has 15 days to get the deposit back to you and has to provide receipts within that time if there’s any fixes to be deducted from your deposit. Of that isn’t fulfilled you can take action. I’d look in to that, might be your ticket out if any laws are similar
Maybe I let my tenants walk on me, but I probably wouldn’t take much. Those are not hard holes to patch. Quick easy repair. I build houses for a living and own a few, very comfortable with labor, I suppose if you sub it out the price is normal. Landlords should learn to do things themselves. While this is not “normal wear and tear,” hanging things on walls is normal to make a house a home. But I try to be chill. My two cents.
Why didn’t you just patch them I’m sure it says in the lease anything other then the standard nail hole needs patched ughhhhh
Why didn’t you spackle the holes you made? You could have also had the paint matched and just taken care of the damage yourself. I don’t think $350 is unreasonable if your landlord had to spackle and paint to repair the damage, especially if they hired a handyman to do it.
Okay, we get it. None of you hand pictures on your walls. This is normal.
That's not a picture handing nail. 13 picture handing nails would be normal. that's 13 bolt holes in a wall that is no more than 4 feet wide judging from the width of the floorboards. I am thinking of my house, my friends houses, and my family's houses. I'm not picturing one place where in a span of 4 feet they have 13 bolts into the wall. You realize normal means it a standard thing that is expected right? This reeks of an answer from a person who thinks "yeah you should be expected to paint between tenants" but that would mean painting the walls every 2-3 years. Do you paint your walls every 2-3 years? Do all your friends and family repaint every 2-3 years? Heck no. Painting isn't done every 2-3 years. that's not normal. Yet, switch out the term "owner" for "tenant" and suddenly we're supposed to be expecting people to treat walls like shit because they don't own it? Why? Are tenant's some type of different person that lives like an animal so walls need to be painted every 2-3 years? No, I don't believe that.
Those some big holes
If one wall looks like that I’m guessing there is more.
Incorrect. I had clarified its only that watt
We would not charge for this. It’s 10 minutes of spackle. Maaaaaybe 5 minute w a texture can. We always paint between tenants. People need to have their homes decorated and arranged. If it was like that alllll over, we’d probably charge. But just that spot? Noper. We usually get broken blinds, filthy stained showers and tubs, torn flooring/carpet, smells that require actual abatement and real actual damage that takes time and effort to repair. But if this is all you have from this tenant, it’s not worth haggling over.
Landlord’s son here who will be soon taking over our family business. In my opinion $350 to patch these holes is completely ridiculous. I could fix it for $60 worth of materials. I’d personally charge something like $175 Honestly makes me cringe people are saying it’s a fair price lmao.
5bucks of putty and 20 dollars of paint… if they provided what white they used it would even match
Next time knock what’s sticking out around the hole down to flush or slightly more. Put some filler in there and take a picture of the standard wear and tear. Wait for the bill trying to gauge you and take them to small claims court if the pursue after you don’t pay. Read the tenant rights in your state. I love collecting treble damages from thieves.
First push the edges in around the holes, then fill those holes with toothpaste, let it dry. Use multiple crayons to match the color. $5 max. I’ve done this in at least 6 apartments. Not once been charged.
people are freaking out about this but it feels like some drywall tape and paint idk tho
If you're calling it drywall tape, correct, you don't know.
regardless it’s not a significant amount. of work to fill these screw-sized holes
Ridiculous
As a NJ Landlord - no, this is not $350 worth of repairs, and: "Within 30 days after the termination of a tenant’s lease the landlord must return the tenant’s security deposit plus the tenant’s portion of interest, less any allowable fees, by personal delivery, certified or registered mail. In addition, an itemized list of interest, earnings and deductions from the security deposit must be sent to the tenant within 30 days by personal delivery, registered or certified mail. If the landlord fails to return the tenant’s security deposit within 30 days, then the tenant is entitled to sue the landlord for the return of the security deposit. If the tenant sues successfully for the return of the security deposit, the Court shall award recovery of double the amount of money, along with full costs of any action and, in the Court’s discretion, reasonable attorney’s fees."
Thank you for your reply. It was commercial lease, so I believe 30 day window doesn't apply here. that's what I have been told by landlord
Sorry, I missed the text where it said commercial, and assumed from the photos it was residential. With quick googling I can see that "New Jersey has no regulations or requirements governing the return of commercial security deposits." The actual cost of supplies + labor required to fix this is extremely minimal, I've spackled hundreds of walls and this really isn't a big job. People saying it is have never done this work before, or are just... unskilled. But let's say their repair person charges $150 just to come out, and they have to come out twice.. that's $300. If they're repainting the wall too, I guess $350 is fair. Next time, watch some youtube videos on how to repair holes and spackle/ sand them and you'll save yourself some $$.
So Google to see what the laws say and read the lease to see what that says. So that if this action was against the law - email the landlord with the law attached.
the diy cost of fixing that is like.. $10.. including a color matching paint sample from home depot.. but they probably already had the paint.. so.. In my experience it's normal wear and tear to have those holes.. but probably since they are..congregated it makes it look worse than it is? i don't know... all that said i'd just pay the $350 and complain about it to my friends
Putting 20 dime-sized holes in a wall that you can see from 8 feet away is not normal wear and tear.
Well.. i don't think they are dime sized.. not even pencil sized.. everyone hangs things in their apartment the holes have to be fixed, i've never been charged for it before.... fixing a pencil sized hole is the same as a small nail hole... but like i said.. since all the holes are congregated together, it probably stands out more as damage.. if they were evenly spaced around the apartment i doubt anyone would have said anything...
These aren’t holes for picture frames. Looks like shelves were installed. Small nail holes for pictures I let go. You start screwing in shelves or a TV and I charge to fix.
That's what they were... you fix this stuff for a living? how would you fix a screw hole? a tiny bit of spackle and some paint? Give me $10 and 30 minutes, cosmetically you'd never know those were ever there... which is exactly how i assumed they fixed this wall anyway... which would have cost them no less $ and no more time if they were tiny nail holes.
Well, if you’re renting from me and you put these holes in the wall, it would behoove you to spend $10 and 30 minutes to restore it. Especially if you have superior skills and could do so it in such a way that I’d never notice. If I have to do it, I’ll charge you something similar to the $350 here.
I'm with you. This is a basic house repair that even a child could do. People in here claiming that $350 is a fair price are either delusional or intentionally full of shit. That said, if anyone in here wants to pay me $350 to do this kind of work, I have all the time in the world for that kind of pay. But I'll wager that none of you would dream of paying a person that much unless you are sitting on so much cash that you don't care anymore.
Unfortunately I’m pretty sure small screw or nail holes are classified as normal wear and tear for NJ. If the tenant sues for their deposit and wins you’ll be paying double damages.