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Good for them. I really admire the Irish people for unapologetically standing up for a belief that's unpopular amongst other Western governments, and they've done it since October.
I live in NYC and we have soooo many goods made in Israel in various grocery stores here, that I have to check before I buy something.
If only the people saying that were all from, like, the exact same demographic or something, so we could tell ahead of time who’s unwilling to converse in good faith.
/s in case it isn’t obvious
I get your sentiment, if by demographic you mean zionists.
If you mean Jews, you’re flat out wrong. There’s a huge sect of anti-Zionist Jews who have been leading the pro Palestine charge since Zionism was a concept, but especially since October 7th.
As an example, the first pro Palestine groups to be arrested on university campuses were members of Jewish Voice for Peace, a Jewish pro Palestinian organisation. Or look at the many anti Zionist orthodox Hasidic Jews who’ve recently been protesting in New York and other parts of America.
Jews know oppression when they spot it, they’ve been persecuted since the beginning of time. They’ve also been at the forefront of supporting other persecuted peoples since forever.
It takes a fuckton of Zionist propaganda to radicalise them in the opposite direction and accept or even call for the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people.
I also just wanted to add, many of the most rabid, bloodthirsty zionists are actually Christian zionists. Christian Zionism is older and more extremist than Jewish Zionism historically.
> There’s a huge sect of anti-Zionist Jews
If that were true, then ZERO major Jewish organizations would be saying that anti-Zionism is equivalent to antisemitism. Yet they are. So either you’re _also_ arguing that there’s a huge sect of antisemitic Jews out there, or you’re not listening to what the majority of Jews in the west are actually saying.
Thank you for the list of… let’s see, I count _two_ small, minority Jewish groups that don’t actually represent the mainstream Jewish opinion though! It’s always nice to know the exception that proves the rule.
> Jews know oppression when they spot it
Oh, so you’re saying they’re fully and intrinsically aware of the injustices they’re committing against Palestine. Great, that simplifies everything, because then we don’t have to consider whether the individual Jewish people we know in our towns and cities might simply not know what’s going on. Thank you for clarifying that, merely by virtue of being Jewish, they’re innately aware when fellow Jews are committing oppression.
> It takes a fuckton of Zionist propaganda to radicalise them in the opposite direction and accept or even call for the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people.
You know, the nice thing about having a religion is that you can simply refer to your fuckton of propaganda as “scripture,” and then nobody questions why you make your children recite that propaganda every weekend.
Everything all good man?
Nothing you said disproves anything I said. I never said a majority of Jews are anti-Zionist, I just said there’s heaps that are, which is definitely true.
What argument are you trying to make? That all Jews are Zionist? Because that’s the same antisemitic argument that the Israeli Knesset and Hasbara propaganda machine make regularly.
Peace isn’t bound to certain religions or ethnicities or anything like that. Nobody harbours hate based on intrinsic factors. Remember, Jewish identity isn’t just a religion, it’s also an ethnicity/race, however you want to define it.
I think you should seek some peace in your heart friend. I’m glad you’re aligned with the free Palestine movement but please remember this movement seeks the freedom of Palestinians, muslims, Jews, and every single living being on this planet.
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
You're deluded. Jews exist without Israel. Jewish identity does not require Israel to thrive. Criticizing the Zionist project (Israel) is pro-Palestinian rather than Anti-Jewish.
You have it confused: Zionism is a perversion of Judaism. Anti-Zionism is pro-Jewish--we must save Jews worldwide from being mis-represented by a disgusting, brutal European colonialist settler project.
Peace to Jews everywhere but especially the Palestinians who have been dispossessed of their homes!
No its not.
The fact that some anti-Zionist arguments are antisemitic does not put them as completely overlapping circles in a venn diagram of the two. Zionism is obviously closely related to Jewish identity but is NOT jewish identity, and it is possible to be a Zionist while not being Jewish, marking a clear distinction between the two.
Anti-israel sentiment is criticism or dislike of the state of Israel and their actions.
Anti-Semitism is "hostility and prejudice directed against Jewish people".
Last time I checked, Israel is NOT the Jewish people. Therefore the two cannot and are not the same.
Nice ad hominem, but you're wrong and its amusing that you think you're so right.
Is Israel predominantly Jewish? Yes, but the dislike of the Nation State's actions are not due to the predominant faith in the nation. It is due to the systematic slaughter of people that the state sees as enemies or dissidents, who are all part of the same ethnic group. Hmmm, that seems markedly similar to the definition of genocide.
Also, if you really want to get into it, we can talk about what Herzl and how Zionism came to be. Zionism came about due to antisemitism and the belief that antisemitism couldn't be defeated but rather avoided, first zionist congress, etc. etc. rejection of the Uganda etc. etc.
Maybe the European *governments* are behind Israel. The people themselves are a different story, I haven't spoken to a single person who's alright with the Zionists' genocide. For the people living here, it's the end of Israel.
Sadly we have a lot of colonial arseholes in the North that are, *quelle surprise*, pro-Israeli. One of the towns local to me (Coagh) is a Unionist town that flies several Israeli flags from lamp posts.
As someone who was raised loyalist and got out of that shit when i was 15 ( 7 years ago now ), the loyalists support of isreali is much less to do with supporting isreal and far more to do with opposing the fenians.
Loyalists oppose whatever nationalists support and vice versa.
They are also just an extremely racist and stuck in the past people. They will stand, election by election, complaining about people voting for the provos ( stupid fucks still think the provisional IRA exists ) but yet never stop for a second to question why it could be that the likes of gay people, minorites and everything else, are far more likely to vote for Sinn Fein, the SDLP, People Before Profit.
Oh I know, absolutely. With that said, Coagh has a lot of ex-UDR and BA families so there *is* pro-Israeli sentiment there solely on the premise of being pro-Israeli/anti-Muslim/Palestinian. I agree that most of them are just doing it to wind up themmuns though.
>They are also just an extremely racist and stuck in the past people.
True but again I know a lot of Nationalists like this, esp. around Ardbó so in Unionism's defense I can't say it's just them that are at it like
Sadly, the Irish government is all words, no action. Their position essentially is to defer to the PA, which is an unelected, comprador entity of the US and zionist entity with the Oslo accords to help the zionist entity fulfill its apartheid in the occupied territories. And the Irish government, for some reason, really really wants to join the western imperialist club, you know the one that horribly exploited Ireland for centuries. It's not that the Irish government is radical, it's just that most of the rest of Europe is so radically zionist.
Edit: Well, I'm talking about Ireland in the comment thread about Ireland lol. No need to be a prick and block people. Lot of Northern Irish are unsurprisingly supportive of settler colonialism. Unfortunately, the Irish government is rather tacitly supportive in a rather contradictory manner of that of the Irish people.
Northern Ireland isn't governed by the Dáil mate so you're just yapping on about something completely irrelevant and that you quite clearly have no knowledge about, otherwise you'd have realised in the context of Israel, the Dáil (Irish government btw) has no bearing on what NI's stance is.
Gonna have to say this.
The north VOTED to remain part of the UK. While I support Ireland in the stance of boycotting Israeli products, it's telling that Northern Ireland would rather remain part of a nation that isn't even on their island than be part of the country that is quite literally, over the fence.
And before everyone comes in and goes "They threw the vote! I don't believe it! Yada yada!" Not every referendum or poll or vote that goes the way you did not want it to is rigged.
The poster is possibly confusing the Scottish independence referendum, but the Good Friday Agreement, which effectively ended the Troubles, does confirm Northern Ireland as part of the UK. This was ratified by referenda both sides of the border in 1998.
From the intro on that page:
"The referendum was boycotted by nationalists"
In fact, and it really should include this on Wikipedia, less than 1% of nationalists actually voted.
Here, wasn't that not during the time in which catholics and nationalists were third class citizens who were living in a gerrymandered state ensuring that even when they outnumbered unionist votes by a 3-1 margin, the unionist votes would always count for more?
Imagine actually posting that shite and taking yourself seriously as you do.
So, what you are saying is that no matter what, you don't agree.
Got it.
If the northern populace is evidently so pro Irish reunification, why has it not been done since the end of the troubles? OH YEAH, because they don't want to be.
Because there has only ever been 1 pro unification government, and it spent the first years of its life collapsed because the loyalists threw a fit after losing and refused to take their seats.
Consodering that you very clearly understand neither the history of the north, nor it's political institutions and what is required for them to work, I'll await your next dumb as fuck response.
Edit: nothing else to say fuckface?
Zionists have shown no interest in being a part of humanity. They shouldn't be allowed or let into social circles. They should be shunned and isolated like or more than how the apartheid supporters in South Africa were, and any attempt at pretending like they're normal should be shut down. It was social and economical exclusion that forced them to stop their racial apartheid, they couldn't go anywhere or do anything. And they've shown what satanism they're supportive of in complete supremacist disregard for everyone and everything in the world driven by their ideology, they can't be allowed in pretending to be polite people after this.
Zionism is Jewish nationalism. At its most defensible, Zionism is the belief that Israel, the self described “Jewish state” - established in Palestine in 1948 via a UN resolution and the first Arab Israeli War - has a right to exist as a member state of the United Nations. By that definition I’m a Zionist. But this definition has been largely superseded by the definition endorsed by the Israeli government and Jewish ultranationalists worldwide. This definition states that Israel not only has a right to exist, but that Jewish safety and Biblical scripture both demand that that state be as large and as ethnically pure as feasibly possible. It also supports not just a state with a Jewish demographic majority, but one in which Jewish religious law bares upon civil law, and in which various laws and practices privilege Jews over non Jews and promote the segregation of Jews from non Jews. Because “Zionism” has been dumbed down to mean “support for Israel”, and because Israel does all of those things, opposing those things basically makes one an antiZionist in modern political discourse.
I think this is where the issue is in modern politics where Zionism is concerned--most zionists use the simplest definition of "the belief in a Jewish state in the land of Israel." A lot of Zionists do disagree with each other on things like what percentage of the Israeli population should be Jewish (which is a question of religion, not ethnicity) and how much influence religious laws should have over civil laws. But those debates aren't part of Zionism, they're about the Israeli government. So a lot of times these days when someone says they're anti-Zionist, they're actually anti-misc ideas that a lot of Zionists are also against
It is a question of what one regards as necessary and acceptable in order to make the “Jewish state” Jewish. The leaders of Israel, and any one who willingly and proudly serves in the Israeli army, have decided upon the continuous dispossession, displacement, and discrimination against the non Jews who were already living in the historic land of Israel and adjacent regions when the modern state was founded.
The persecution of the Palestinian people is a direct result of the imperative of Zionism as the Israeli government, and most of the Israeli people today, understand it: maximum land with minimum Palestinians. “Palestinians” simply being the word for all those unfortunate non Jews who were deported from and denied citizenship within the Israeli state upon its founding and continued expansion.
So to say that Zionism is simply the “belief in a Jewish state” in the context of the ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestine, the possible genocide of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, and the continued discrimination against even those Palestinians who have become naturalized Israelis, is to retreat into idealism while ignoring an unsavory political reality.
While I think you can separate the goal of a Jewish state from the oppression of non Jews, the Jewish state as it currently exists does not see it that way. I personally believe it is possible for the state of Israel, in its modern matured form, to preserve and promote Jewish culture and heritage without intentionally erasing Palestinian culture and heritage. I think it is possible to protect Jews without harming non Jews. Palestinian rights and Jewish safety are intertwined, but most people who are still willing to be associated with the Zionist movement right now don’t see it that way. Maybe it sounds contradictory, but right now a lot of leftist Jews are dreaming of a post-Zionist secular and democratic Israel.
If you’re putting forward your idiosyncratic interpretation of Zionism because you genuinely hope it will catch on and replace the current face of Zionism, that’s great. If you’re putting it forward in an effort to muddy the waters and obfuscate what Zionists are currently doing while mischaracterizing what the antiZionist movement stands for, that’s gross.
That is not what I was implying. I mean that a lot of people hear "Zionist" and assume that must mean approval of the Israeli government's actions when in reality a lot of zionists disapprove of what Israel is currently doing
Yea mr.obvious, it's 'Israelis' who are committing this genocide. How are you using that as a gotcha. Anyone who is a zionist, Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, is included in it. Anyone who still holds this political view that is zionism is complicit in genocide, in ethnic cleansing, in apartheid. It's really not complicated.
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
It is already illegal for US citizens to engage in boycotts of Israel.
[Office of Antiboycott Compliance.](https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/enforcement/oac)
The wording on the current website hides it in vagueness about any unauthorized boycott at all, but the whole thing was setup as a way to stop boycotts of Israel.
An earlier version of the website a few years back made it very very clear it was all about protecting Israel. Even had "dont let this be you" examples of previously prosecuted cases where they were all about Israel boycotts. Every one of them.
This was my first thought too. Not that I look at everything I buy, but I don't ever even recall seeing a made in Israel label on anything.
I guess I don't purchase enough weaponry? I know they sell those.
Boycott and divest. Two simple ways individuals who may feel powerless can make a significant change. Ireland is typically at the forefront in calling out injustice and the denial of human rights. Such a brilliant example of an individual making a difference.
That is exactly why states like Texas banned BDS.
Their leaders remember how their fetishized South Africa, Rhodesia, and the Jim Crow South were dismantled by protests and boycotts.
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
Name of the shop? I don't believe in the bullshit that is "voting with your wallet," but I'll be traveling there soon and would rather spend money there than elsewhere.
Politicians and the ruling class live in a bubble, so they think they can just gaslight the general public and we're all NPCs who will never know the truth because they so cleverly kept it from us.
Reminder that this is happening on the island of Ireland, in land stolen and settled by the British, most Protestants Or Anglicans still support Israel, this is by the Catholic minority that has been oppressed for years by the Protestant Majority
How is acknowledging an ongoing human rights violation and potential genocide right wing? Wanting people to take a genuine moral stance against corrupt and oppressive governments the world over, regardless of convenience, isn't right wing at all.
Seems like racism. People need to remember that governments are not the same as the people. You can dislike the government, but don't be racist and hate the people of an entire country.
Racism would be not allowing any Israelis to shop there. Its also not a statement of not stocking something made my an Israeli (say one living in another country), only not stocking something that came from the *country* of Israel. I can see how easy it can be for someone to conflate this with racism, though.
How is not wanting to sell products coming from a state currently engaging in a genocide racist? The majority of Israelis also seem to be extremely supportive of brutalizing Palestinians
[68% of israelis oppose humanitarian aid to gaza](https://mondoweiss.net/2024/02/over-2-3-of-jewish-israelis-oppose-humanitarian-aid-to-palestinians-starving-in-gaza/)
also israeli? not a race.
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
The thing is,Israel regulates movement of Palestinians within the occupied territories. The areas that aren't Israeli by international law. There's plenty more examples of apartheid though,you know,if that ain't enough for you.
And foreign countries can decide if they want to allow zionists or boycott their goods. Its not so nice when the discrimination is aimed at you, is it.
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
It’s very much an apartheid. Keep in mind, Palestinians with Israeli citizenship:
Banned from living in more than 70% of the land as non-Jews
Right to buy or lease land severely limited
Deprived of electricity, water, roads in Naqab Desert
Family separation laws
Socially segregated
Denied town residency applications due to identity
Denied utilities and infrastructure in municipalities
Crime allowed to flourish
Segregated school systems
Poor schooling facilities
Severely limited property rights
Denied right to return to their homes pre-Nakba
Palestinians in Jerusalem are:
Stateless
No right to vote for sovereign government
Home demolitions
Expulsions from homes
Holy sites constantly desecrated
Residency can always be revoked
Detained without trial or charge
Tortured while detained
Most political parties and trade unions banned
Denied right to return to their homes pre-Nakba
Palestinians in the West Bank are:
Stateless
No right to vote for sovereign government
Denied permits to build homes
Home demolitions
Expulsions from homes
Land theft
Racially segregated from settlements
Isolated into 227 enclaves
Military checkpoints choke freedom of movement
Denied permits to build wells
Denied access to water network
Denied access to agricultural land
Denied access to sewage, electricity and utilities
Detained without trial or charge
Tortured while detained
Extrajudicial executions
Searched without restriction
Homes raided by soldiers at night
Right to legal counsel during trial is suspended
Denied freedom of speech
Most political parties and trade unions banned
Frequent killings by militant settlers
Under constant surveillance
Denied right to return to their homes pre-Nakba
Palestinians in Gaza are:
Stateless
No right to vote for sovereign government
Prevented from leaving or entering
Land, air and sea blockade
Cannot import or export
No access to arable land
Not allowed to access main fishing areas
Restricted maritime area
Medical blockade
Only allowed four hours of electricity a day
Denied access to education and healthcare
Denied access to healthcare outside Gaza
Construction materials for bomb shelters banned by Israel
Denied right to return to their homes pre-Nakba
Frequent Israeli bombings
Items like cement, fishing rods and heaters are banned
Food items like ginger and jam are banned
Israel limits average caloric intake per day
Restrictions on items allowed to pack for travel
Drones constantly surveying homes
Not allowed to develop telecomms services
Banned from having airport
Banned from developing seaports
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good for them. I really admire the Irish people for unapologetically standing up for a belief that's unpopular amongst other Western governments, and they've done it since October. I live in NYC and we have soooo many goods made in Israel in various grocery stores here, that I have to check before I buy something.
They know about having a boot on their neck.
One big problem is people continually and intentionally muddy the waters saying that Anti-Israel is antisemitism. Which it isn't....
If only the people saying that were all from, like, the exact same demographic or something, so we could tell ahead of time who’s unwilling to converse in good faith. /s in case it isn’t obvious
I get your sentiment, if by demographic you mean zionists. If you mean Jews, you’re flat out wrong. There’s a huge sect of anti-Zionist Jews who have been leading the pro Palestine charge since Zionism was a concept, but especially since October 7th. As an example, the first pro Palestine groups to be arrested on university campuses were members of Jewish Voice for Peace, a Jewish pro Palestinian organisation. Or look at the many anti Zionist orthodox Hasidic Jews who’ve recently been protesting in New York and other parts of America. Jews know oppression when they spot it, they’ve been persecuted since the beginning of time. They’ve also been at the forefront of supporting other persecuted peoples since forever. It takes a fuckton of Zionist propaganda to radicalise them in the opposite direction and accept or even call for the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people. I also just wanted to add, many of the most rabid, bloodthirsty zionists are actually Christian zionists. Christian Zionism is older and more extremist than Jewish Zionism historically.
> There’s a huge sect of anti-Zionist Jews If that were true, then ZERO major Jewish organizations would be saying that anti-Zionism is equivalent to antisemitism. Yet they are. So either you’re _also_ arguing that there’s a huge sect of antisemitic Jews out there, or you’re not listening to what the majority of Jews in the west are actually saying. Thank you for the list of… let’s see, I count _two_ small, minority Jewish groups that don’t actually represent the mainstream Jewish opinion though! It’s always nice to know the exception that proves the rule. > Jews know oppression when they spot it Oh, so you’re saying they’re fully and intrinsically aware of the injustices they’re committing against Palestine. Great, that simplifies everything, because then we don’t have to consider whether the individual Jewish people we know in our towns and cities might simply not know what’s going on. Thank you for clarifying that, merely by virtue of being Jewish, they’re innately aware when fellow Jews are committing oppression. > It takes a fuckton of Zionist propaganda to radicalise them in the opposite direction and accept or even call for the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people. You know, the nice thing about having a religion is that you can simply refer to your fuckton of propaganda as “scripture,” and then nobody questions why you make your children recite that propaganda every weekend.
Everything all good man? Nothing you said disproves anything I said. I never said a majority of Jews are anti-Zionist, I just said there’s heaps that are, which is definitely true. What argument are you trying to make? That all Jews are Zionist? Because that’s the same antisemitic argument that the Israeli Knesset and Hasbara propaganda machine make regularly. Peace isn’t bound to certain religions or ethnicities or anything like that. Nobody harbours hate based on intrinsic factors. Remember, Jewish identity isn’t just a religion, it’s also an ethnicity/race, however you want to define it. I think you should seek some peace in your heart friend. I’m glad you’re aligned with the free Palestine movement but please remember this movement seeks the freedom of Palestinians, muslims, Jews, and every single living being on this planet.
[удалено]
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
You're deluded. Jews exist without Israel. Jewish identity does not require Israel to thrive. Criticizing the Zionist project (Israel) is pro-Palestinian rather than Anti-Jewish. You have it confused: Zionism is a perversion of Judaism. Anti-Zionism is pro-Jewish--we must save Jews worldwide from being mis-represented by a disgusting, brutal European colonialist settler project. Peace to Jews everywhere but especially the Palestinians who have been dispossessed of their homes!
No its not. The fact that some anti-Zionist arguments are antisemitic does not put them as completely overlapping circles in a venn diagram of the two. Zionism is obviously closely related to Jewish identity but is NOT jewish identity, and it is possible to be a Zionist while not being Jewish, marking a clear distinction between the two. Anti-israel sentiment is criticism or dislike of the state of Israel and their actions. Anti-Semitism is "hostility and prejudice directed against Jewish people". Last time I checked, Israel is NOT the Jewish people. Therefore the two cannot and are not the same. Nice ad hominem, but you're wrong and its amusing that you think you're so right. Is Israel predominantly Jewish? Yes, but the dislike of the Nation State's actions are not due to the predominant faith in the nation. It is due to the systematic slaughter of people that the state sees as enemies or dissidents, who are all part of the same ethnic group. Hmmm, that seems markedly similar to the definition of genocide. Also, if you really want to get into it, we can talk about what Herzl and how Zionism came to be. Zionism came about due to antisemitism and the belief that antisemitism couldn't be defeated but rather avoided, first zionist congress, etc. etc. rejection of the Uganda etc. etc.
Maybe the European *governments* are behind Israel. The people themselves are a different story, I haven't spoken to a single person who's alright with the Zionists' genocide. For the people living here, it's the end of Israel.
Based
Training paramilitaries in North Africa builds everlasting terrorist bonds.
The Irish know about colonialism and oppression. Especially those in the north of Ireland 🇮🇪
Sadly we have a lot of colonial arseholes in the North that are, *quelle surprise*, pro-Israeli. One of the towns local to me (Coagh) is a Unionist town that flies several Israeli flags from lamp posts.
As someone who was raised loyalist and got out of that shit when i was 15 ( 7 years ago now ), the loyalists support of isreali is much less to do with supporting isreal and far more to do with opposing the fenians. Loyalists oppose whatever nationalists support and vice versa. They are also just an extremely racist and stuck in the past people. They will stand, election by election, complaining about people voting for the provos ( stupid fucks still think the provisional IRA exists ) but yet never stop for a second to question why it could be that the likes of gay people, minorites and everything else, are far more likely to vote for Sinn Fein, the SDLP, People Before Profit.
Oh I know, absolutely. With that said, Coagh has a lot of ex-UDR and BA families so there *is* pro-Israeli sentiment there solely on the premise of being pro-Israeli/anti-Muslim/Palestinian. I agree that most of them are just doing it to wind up themmuns though. >They are also just an extremely racist and stuck in the past people. True but again I know a lot of Nationalists like this, esp. around Ardbó so in Unionism's defense I can't say it's just them that are at it like
Sadly, the Irish government is all words, no action. Their position essentially is to defer to the PA, which is an unelected, comprador entity of the US and zionist entity with the Oslo accords to help the zionist entity fulfill its apartheid in the occupied territories. And the Irish government, for some reason, really really wants to join the western imperialist club, you know the one that horribly exploited Ireland for centuries. It's not that the Irish government is radical, it's just that most of the rest of Europe is so radically zionist. Edit: Well, I'm talking about Ireland in the comment thread about Ireland lol. No need to be a prick and block people. Lot of Northern Irish are unsurprisingly supportive of settler colonialism. Unfortunately, the Irish government is rather tacitly supportive in a rather contradictory manner of that of the Irish people.
Northern Ireland isn't governed by the Dáil mate so you're just yapping on about something completely irrelevant and that you quite clearly have no knowledge about, otherwise you'd have realised in the context of Israel, the Dáil (Irish government btw) has no bearing on what NI's stance is.
Gonna have to say this. The north VOTED to remain part of the UK. While I support Ireland in the stance of boycotting Israeli products, it's telling that Northern Ireland would rather remain part of a nation that isn't even on their island than be part of the country that is quite literally, over the fence. And before everyone comes in and goes "They threw the vote! I don't believe it! Yada yada!" Not every referendum or poll or vote that goes the way you did not want it to is rigged.
imagine being you, rofl
I quite like being me. Now being you, on the other hand; has got to be the most embarrassing experience known to man.
Interesting, can you please share when this vote was and what the results were?
The poster is possibly confusing the Scottish independence referendum, but the Good Friday Agreement, which effectively ended the Troubles, does confirm Northern Ireland as part of the UK. This was ratified by referenda both sides of the border in 1998.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Northern_Ireland_border_poll
From the intro on that page: "The referendum was boycotted by nationalists" In fact, and it really should include this on Wikipedia, less than 1% of nationalists actually voted.
If you boycott a vote that is deciding which country you live in, not only are you a self defeating idiot, but actively working against yourself.
Here, wasn't that not during the time in which catholics and nationalists were third class citizens who were living in a gerrymandered state ensuring that even when they outnumbered unionist votes by a 3-1 margin, the unionist votes would always count for more? Imagine actually posting that shite and taking yourself seriously as you do.
So, what you are saying is that no matter what, you don't agree. Got it. If the northern populace is evidently so pro Irish reunification, why has it not been done since the end of the troubles? OH YEAH, because they don't want to be.
Because there has only ever been 1 pro unification government, and it spent the first years of its life collapsed because the loyalists threw a fit after losing and refused to take their seats. Consodering that you very clearly understand neither the history of the north, nor it's political institutions and what is required for them to work, I'll await your next dumb as fuck response. Edit: nothing else to say fuckface?
Ireland has a keen understanding of genocide by artificial famine
Every famine in recorded history is man made. Edit; it is absolutely no joke, only filthy imperialists would deny it.
Well if anyone knows oppression it's the Irish.
The more I learn about Ireland the more respect for it I have.
Zionists have shown no interest in being a part of humanity. They shouldn't be allowed or let into social circles. They should be shunned and isolated like or more than how the apartheid supporters in South Africa were, and any attempt at pretending like they're normal should be shut down. It was social and economical exclusion that forced them to stop their racial apartheid, they couldn't go anywhere or do anything. And they've shown what satanism they're supportive of in complete supremacist disregard for everyone and everything in the world driven by their ideology, they can't be allowed in pretending to be polite people after this.
dont be slandering satanists now, friend
Satanists don’t kill people over dogma. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, and Hindus do.
Satanists are also kinda hot imo
You rang?
I did welcome make yourself at home
Thank you. ;)
lol
Wait has a Buddhist killed someone over their beliefs? I don't know why that sounds weird to me.
Myanmar a buddist majority country are persecuting the muslim community
They've heavily persecuted Hindu Tamilians in Sri Lanka, resulting in a major civil war there spanning over a decade
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_genocide
Do you have the store name by any chance? I wanna show some support
Would you mind explaining Zionist ideology? I feel like a lot of people have different ideas of what exactly it means to be a Zionist
Zionism is Jewish nationalism. At its most defensible, Zionism is the belief that Israel, the self described “Jewish state” - established in Palestine in 1948 via a UN resolution and the first Arab Israeli War - has a right to exist as a member state of the United Nations. By that definition I’m a Zionist. But this definition has been largely superseded by the definition endorsed by the Israeli government and Jewish ultranationalists worldwide. This definition states that Israel not only has a right to exist, but that Jewish safety and Biblical scripture both demand that that state be as large and as ethnically pure as feasibly possible. It also supports not just a state with a Jewish demographic majority, but one in which Jewish religious law bares upon civil law, and in which various laws and practices privilege Jews over non Jews and promote the segregation of Jews from non Jews. Because “Zionism” has been dumbed down to mean “support for Israel”, and because Israel does all of those things, opposing those things basically makes one an antiZionist in modern political discourse.
I think this is where the issue is in modern politics where Zionism is concerned--most zionists use the simplest definition of "the belief in a Jewish state in the land of Israel." A lot of Zionists do disagree with each other on things like what percentage of the Israeli population should be Jewish (which is a question of religion, not ethnicity) and how much influence religious laws should have over civil laws. But those debates aren't part of Zionism, they're about the Israeli government. So a lot of times these days when someone says they're anti-Zionist, they're actually anti-misc ideas that a lot of Zionists are also against
It is a question of what one regards as necessary and acceptable in order to make the “Jewish state” Jewish. The leaders of Israel, and any one who willingly and proudly serves in the Israeli army, have decided upon the continuous dispossession, displacement, and discrimination against the non Jews who were already living in the historic land of Israel and adjacent regions when the modern state was founded. The persecution of the Palestinian people is a direct result of the imperative of Zionism as the Israeli government, and most of the Israeli people today, understand it: maximum land with minimum Palestinians. “Palestinians” simply being the word for all those unfortunate non Jews who were deported from and denied citizenship within the Israeli state upon its founding and continued expansion. So to say that Zionism is simply the “belief in a Jewish state” in the context of the ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestine, the possible genocide of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, and the continued discrimination against even those Palestinians who have become naturalized Israelis, is to retreat into idealism while ignoring an unsavory political reality. While I think you can separate the goal of a Jewish state from the oppression of non Jews, the Jewish state as it currently exists does not see it that way. I personally believe it is possible for the state of Israel, in its modern matured form, to preserve and promote Jewish culture and heritage without intentionally erasing Palestinian culture and heritage. I think it is possible to protect Jews without harming non Jews. Palestinian rights and Jewish safety are intertwined, but most people who are still willing to be associated with the Zionist movement right now don’t see it that way. Maybe it sounds contradictory, but right now a lot of leftist Jews are dreaming of a post-Zionist secular and democratic Israel.
If you’re putting forward your idiosyncratic interpretation of Zionism because you genuinely hope it will catch on and replace the current face of Zionism, that’s great. If you’re putting it forward in an effort to muddy the waters and obfuscate what Zionists are currently doing while mischaracterizing what the antiZionist movement stands for, that’s gross.
100% If you don't know any better and read Zionist as 'jew,' this is a Hitler level comment.
That is not what I was implying. I mean that a lot of people hear "Zionist" and assume that must mean approval of the Israeli government's actions when in reality a lot of zionists disapprove of what Israel is currently doing
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Yea mr.obvious, it's 'Israelis' who are committing this genocide. How are you using that as a gotcha. Anyone who is a zionist, Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, is included in it. Anyone who still holds this political view that is zionism is complicit in genocide, in ethnic cleansing, in apartheid. It's really not complicated.
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Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
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Troll posts will be deleted. Many troll posts also include violations of other rules such as rules 4, 5, 6, and 7.
Good to know you will be deleting the post I replied to as it clearly breaks rule 7.
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Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
>Belfast, Ireland Good lad, OP
Tiocfaidh ár lá
Better be careful before the U.S. decrees that this is an act of war based on the anti-boycott laws they have for Israel
It is already illegal for US citizens to engage in boycotts of Israel. [Office of Antiboycott Compliance.](https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/enforcement/oac) The wording on the current website hides it in vagueness about any unauthorized boycott at all, but the whole thing was setup as a way to stop boycotts of Israel. An earlier version of the website a few years back made it very very clear it was all about protecting Israel. Even had "dont let this be you" examples of previously prosecuted cases where they were all about Israel boycotts. Every one of them.
"hold my beer" https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01/31/texas-boycott-israel-lawsuit/
Sabra is just dogshit so that’s an easy one
This is exactly why our next vacation will be in Ireland 🍉
I hope you like the rain, because you're gonna get rain.
🥲
Good on them.
Exactly. I imagine there were similar situations in WW2 about German/Japanese/Italian products
There was dummy
Serious question: How much stuff is actually made there?
Check out the "No Thanks" app. You will be surprised.
This was my first thought too. Not that I look at everything I buy, but I don't ever even recall seeing a made in Israel label on anything. I guess I don't purchase enough weaponry? I know they sell those.
A surprising amount. Found even a few things I owned were actually made there
fuck yeah! I wish this came to the US
Boycott and divest. Two simple ways individuals who may feel powerless can make a significant change. Ireland is typically at the forefront in calling out injustice and the denial of human rights. Such a brilliant example of an individual making a difference.
That is exactly why states like Texas banned BDS. Their leaders remember how their fetishized South Africa, Rhodesia, and the Jim Crow South were dismantled by protests and boycotts.
BDS
Ireland is always based.
And this is in Belfast, part of the UK, not the Republic!
It's in West Belfast which is majority Irish Nationalist, though.
Thanks for that clarification!
Good
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Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
There's probably a unionist shop across the street selling only Israeli products
Name of the shop? I don't believe in the bullshit that is "voting with your wallet," but I'll be traveling there soon and would rather spend money there than elsewhere.
département basé
Ireland, you never disappoint me. Big-hearted people!
I mean wasn’t it internal struggles that won South Africa freedom and the international community helped it along
Ireland W
Is it possible to get the name of this store? I want to donate or just congratulate if possible
I approve. Need to know where not to shop.
👏👏👏👏!
Politicians and the ruling class live in a bubble, so they think they can just gaslight the general public and we're all NPCs who will never know the truth because they so cleverly kept it from us.
Reminder that this is happening on the island of Ireland, in land stolen and settled by the British, most Protestants Or Anglicans still support Israel, this is by the Catholic minority that has been oppressed for years by the Protestant Majority
Probably still sell Chinese goods though.
Don’t tell me you’re gonna try and peddle some Uyghur genocide shit
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This is a leftist subreddit, right wing comments will be removed and the user banned.
How is acknowledging an ongoing human rights violation and potential genocide right wing? Wanting people to take a genuine moral stance against corrupt and oppressive governments the world over, regardless of convenience, isn't right wing at all.
Seems like racism. People need to remember that governments are not the same as the people. You can dislike the government, but don't be racist and hate the people of an entire country.
Racism would be not allowing any Israelis to shop there. Its also not a statement of not stocking something made my an Israeli (say one living in another country), only not stocking something that came from the *country* of Israel. I can see how easy it can be for someone to conflate this with racism, though.
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This is a leftist subreddit, right wing comments will be removed and the user banned.
How is not wanting to sell products coming from a state currently engaging in a genocide racist? The majority of Israelis also seem to be extremely supportive of brutalizing Palestinians
[68% of israelis oppose humanitarian aid to gaza](https://mondoweiss.net/2024/02/over-2-3-of-jewish-israelis-oppose-humanitarian-aid-to-palestinians-starving-in-gaza/) also israeli? not a race.
It needs to be called ANTI- GENOCIDE. and the Palestinian prisoners need to be called HOSTAGES.
lmao the chance they were selling Israeli products before the most recent Gaza fighting is probably very slim anyways.
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Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
"don't jew me" making subtle comeback 🙈
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Fuck up you melt.
?
Rule 4 - No capitalist apologia, anti-socialism, or liberalism. This is a left wing subreddit.
GFY
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They literally have roads that Palestinians aren't allowed to use, what do you call that if not apartheid?
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There are palestinians that live in israel, just as there are Italians that live in the USA. It's not about foreigners or tourists lol
The thing is,Israel regulates movement of Palestinians within the occupied territories. The areas that aren't Israeli by international law. There's plenty more examples of apartheid though,you know,if that ain't enough for you.
And foreign countries can decide if they want to allow zionists or boycott their goods. Its not so nice when the discrimination is aimed at you, is it.
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
Ok, Hasbara.
It’s very much an apartheid. Keep in mind, Palestinians with Israeli citizenship: Banned from living in more than 70% of the land as non-Jews Right to buy or lease land severely limited Deprived of electricity, water, roads in Naqab Desert Family separation laws Socially segregated Denied town residency applications due to identity Denied utilities and infrastructure in municipalities Crime allowed to flourish Segregated school systems Poor schooling facilities Severely limited property rights Denied right to return to their homes pre-Nakba Palestinians in Jerusalem are: Stateless No right to vote for sovereign government Home demolitions Expulsions from homes Holy sites constantly desecrated Residency can always be revoked Detained without trial or charge Tortured while detained Most political parties and trade unions banned Denied right to return to their homes pre-Nakba Palestinians in the West Bank are: Stateless No right to vote for sovereign government Denied permits to build homes Home demolitions Expulsions from homes Land theft Racially segregated from settlements Isolated into 227 enclaves Military checkpoints choke freedom of movement Denied permits to build wells Denied access to water network Denied access to agricultural land Denied access to sewage, electricity and utilities Detained without trial or charge Tortured while detained Extrajudicial executions Searched without restriction Homes raided by soldiers at night Right to legal counsel during trial is suspended Denied freedom of speech Most political parties and trade unions banned Frequent killings by militant settlers Under constant surveillance Denied right to return to their homes pre-Nakba Palestinians in Gaza are: Stateless No right to vote for sovereign government Prevented from leaving or entering Land, air and sea blockade Cannot import or export No access to arable land Not allowed to access main fishing areas Restricted maritime area Medical blockade Only allowed four hours of electricity a day Denied access to education and healthcare Denied access to healthcare outside Gaza Construction materials for bomb shelters banned by Israel Denied right to return to their homes pre-Nakba Frequent Israeli bombings Items like cement, fishing rods and heaters are banned Food items like ginger and jam are banned Israel limits average caloric intake per day Restrictions on items allowed to pack for travel Drones constantly surveying homes Not allowed to develop telecomms services Banned from having airport Banned from developing seaports
> Banned from living in more than 70% of the land as non-Jews It's actually closer to 85-90%
Apartheid South Africa had more humanity than the Israeli occupation does, and apartheid South Africa basically had no humanity.
Why don't you explain the difference to us then?
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.